airberlin topbonus - Will AB offer J class on short haul flights now that they are in OW?

I was wondering if AB might start J class service on short haul flights to further harmonize with OW. Nothing fancy mind you, maybe free baggage, lounge access, free food and a seat blocked between you and the next PAX. Think similar to the way KLM does it. It would cost them very little to do it this way. Any thoughts??

Interesting question.

Just my gut-feeling: I guess not. If they would do this it would have to be done on the whole network and on short haul and intra-german flights I think they established their idea of a one class service which is a notch above the eco service of competitors.

But you never know what the new management thinks of. And what big brother Etihad thinks of it and wants for their connecting pax...

ralfkrippner, I am going to guess the opposite. I can't think of a single global airline alliance that has a carrier with only plain economy seats on even short haul flights. LAN, for example, does the blocked seat & curtain for their premium economy seats near the front. This probably costs them almost nothing. AB already has lounges in place that they can provide to upgrade the experience for connecting pax. What AB has going for it is that it is already a nice airline so it should not be shock for OW pax seeing it for the first time.

But of course no one knows. With less than 20 days to go until they are a partner, I still have many, many unanswered questions.

ralfkrippner, I am going to guess the opposite. I can't think of a single global airline alliance that has a carrier with only plain economy seats on even short haul flights.

Welcome to Lufthansa.

S.

Welcome to Lufthansa.

S.

Well, Lufthansa blocks the middle seat and offers decent bagage allowance and a better catering upfront. So do most EU airlines and AB could do the same without much hardware changes.

It has always struck me that Easyjet, one of the better European airlines in terms of service (Yes, you pay for food and drinks but it is good quality stuff far better than what you get on AF and for which you end up paying whether you want it or not...) has such a restrictive baggage policy that it is completely unusable as an add-on to a Business Class transatlantic flight. They lose tens of thousands of pax such as me who otherwise would like them as a separate tikcket connection.

My guess is that AB, if the OW and Etihad links work, will end up with a short haul Business Class

Yoe definitely have a point with the luggage allowance flying an AB connector in eco (due to no biz) to a ow flight in biz.

I would hope for a biz offering, at least for getting biz miles credited for all segments on a connecting ticket. But I doubt it.

Well, Lufthansa blocks the middle seat and offers decent bagage allowance and a better catering upfront.

Right. But the post I was responding to was talking about the seats.

So do most EU airlines and AB could do the same without much hardware changes.

Correct.


My guess is that AB, if the OW and Etihad links work, will end up with a short haul Business Class

Yes. I would be surprised.

I'd think introducing a basic business class for many if not all routes will happen for a whole host of reasons: it's so easy to do, it's equally easy to adjust the rows for which it will and won't be offered, it will most likely pay for itself (or better) with the extra revenue, it vastly facilitates integration with partner airlines, and it wouldn't hurt the AB brand as an affordable airline.

I was wondering if AB might start J class service on short haul flights to further harmonize with OW. Nothing fancy mind you, maybe free baggage, lounge access, free food and a seat blocked between you and the next PAX. ?

As now:
Free food, i.e. snacks, is already available for all
Blocked seat if 3+3 configuration and you are a Gold TB (and you do not change seat) as long as plane not full
Lounge (elite get access)

By the way, what's about BA domestic Biz ? It's already now as AB in the EU.
If just for the lounge for a full AB Y could be easily implemented lounge access.

As now:
Free food, i.e. snacks, is already available for all
Blocked seat if 3+3 configuration and you are a Gold TB (and you do not change seat)


:rolleyes:
never happened to me. not even on bizz feeder. AB didn't manage ticket me on booked seats on last 6 flights. On NIKI operated flights I seem to end up in the bumpy back of the cabin, although booked 1st row. Maybe for a better gaze at the jeans wearing FAs? ;)

Hold Seat Free for Gold (http://www.airberlin.com/site/tb/program/advantages.php?LANG=eng&show=holdseat)

well, for me this benefit worked fine :)
but
priority boarding ... NEVER :(
free XL only 60% :(

* The "Hold Seat Free" is not binding and is only offered if available. There is no firm booking of a "Hold Seat Free". Passengers have no legal entitlement to a "Hold Seat Free".
* A "Hold Seat Free" cannot be allocated at check-in. This benefit is linked to the seat reservation system.
* A "Hold Seat Free" may be kept free either to the left or right of the seat chosen by the Gold member (or his/her group). Passengers cannot influence this decision, made in advance, to allocate the seat to the left or right.
* In principle, a "Hold Seat Free" can only be offered for a seat immediately adjacent to the passenger. Therefore, it is not possible for the aisle to be between the Gold member's seat (or his/her group) and the "Hold Seat Free".
* If there are rows of two seats, no "Hold Seat Free" is offered, i.e. the seat next to the seat of a Gold member is not kept free in these circumstances.

thx volvic,

lol. priority boarding works on AirAsia and Southwestern only. I prefer final calls anyway. :D

any documentation on the munchies benefit?

any documentation on the munchies benefit?

munchies documentation (http://www.airberlin.com/site/flug_service_an_bord.php?LANG=eng)
but benefit is a big word; just expect a drink (not alcoholic of course or you have to pay for the booze) and a simple snack. On Long-haul a bit better, just a bit.

As now:
Free food, i.e. snacks, is already available for all
Blocked seat if 3+3 configuration and you are a Gold TB (and you do not change seat) as long as plane not full
Lounge (elite get access)

By the way, what's about BA domestic Biz ? It's already now as AB in the EU.
If just for the lounge for a full AB Y could be easily implemented lounge access.

When I mentioned free food I had and still do hope for short haul J the description will read:

"Depending on flight duration, you will be presented with a complimentary selection from our Sansibar gourmet menu."

@shadesofgrey1x &
@Volvic

"free munchies" ain't gold benefit nor for C feeder, proved by documentation presented. maybe you were craved by Y snacks, or we were missing the topic. "free booze" in any matter would compensate.

btw: on Niky operated they wouldn't sell me any alc. beverages even it was on the menu.

cheers

@Volvic

"free munchies" ain't gold benefit nor for C feeder, proved by documentation presented.


As now:
Free food, i.e. snacks, is already available for all

Apologizes
I presumed that "all" was clear enough, not just Gold, for all passengers without reference to their AB TB status.

btw: on Niky operated they wouldn't sell me any alc. beverages even it was on the menu.

Did they told you why??

ex KRK 1 hour delay at the airport, then another hour waiting in the cabin due to polish ATC blackout. so I asked for a wine, which was on the board menu (abt 5 Euros). they told me, they dont have any alcoholic beverages. I was in a bad mood already, as HG messed up my seat reservation for the second time. (booked "gold"seat, ended up in crappy last row) :td:

Just have tried some dummy bookings for early Sunday departures for an intra-German route for September/October. It SEEMS to be the fact that they will introduce any kind of differentiated Economy and other class product.

I can only speculate that due to the fact that the first six rows (including the not-so-often sought-after B/E seats are marked completely taken). Don´t think Business customers may require a seat blocking of 6 rows for a Sunday morning. Also think that it is due to trimming reason of the aircraft.

Therefore my speculation: There must be a product with a higher service level in the pipeline.:D

...yeah. they are already "sold" as seats for gold members. if logged in on gold level they become availible. platinum might get a blocked row anyway?

...awaiting the flex. bulkhead soon. ;)

ralfkrippner, I am going to guess the opposite. I can't think of a single global airline alliance that has a carrier with only plain economy seats on even short haul flights.

correct me if I'm wrong but AFAIK Brussels Airlines used to only have b.light and b.flex on short haul flights. both b.light and b.flex are Y.

correct me if I'm wrong but AFAIK Brussels Airlines used to only have b.light and b.flex on short haul flights. both b.light and b.flex are Y.

No, Brussels Airlines already had 3 classes on short haul (including Business) before they joined Star Alliance.

Not sure if it is an OW or BA definition, but some of AB's short-haul routes are actually so long, over 2000miles,
that they counts as long-haul.
If credited to a BAEC account they'd earn 140 Tier Points in business and 35 in economy.

I'm thinking of:
BER/TXL -
- Sharm el Sheik SSH
- Hurghada HRG
- Lanzarote ACE,
- Las Palmas LPA
- La Palma SPC
- Teneriffa TFE
- Fuertenventura FUE
- Madeira FNC

maybe some other routes as well?

They should move the Azores PDL to TXL so that goes over 2000 as well :)

As an AA EXP I try to book away from AB specifically because they dont offer short haul Business and their lounges are non-existant or inadequate. If an airline wants me to book with them, they better offer Business on European flights with a separate cabin and greatly enhanced catering and meaningful lounge access.

The way it is right now even with a better schedule I will not book my connecting flight from paid Business from the US onto a coach seat on AB, I will find a Business seat with good lounge access on BA, AY or IB.

As an AA EXP I try to book away from AB specifically because they dont offer short haul Business and their lounges are non-existant or inadequate. If an airline wants me to book with them, they better offer Business on European flights with a separate cabin and greatly enhanced catering and meaningful lounge access.

The way it is right now even with a better schedule I will not book my connecting flight from paid Business from the US onto a coach seat on AB, I will find a Business seat with good lounge access on BA, AY or IB.

You should try flying AB economy with free seat in the middle. You'll see it's not much worse than IB business. The IB lounge isn’t that great either and compared to the AA admirals club I would say the AB lounges are quite good.

You should try flying AB economy with free seat in the middle. You'll see it's not much worse than IB business. The IB lounge isn’t that great either and compared to the AA admirals club I would say the AB lounges are quite good.

I normally use AA First Class lounges, which AB lounges are not even close to, also BA, AY and IB lounges in hub airports are vastly superior to anything AB has. Also I do appreciate something more substantial than a sandwich when I fly (I am frequently on medium hauls to DME), and maybe even a vodka cocktail. I would have to pay extra for all of this on AB while hoping to get the middle seat empty and enduring crappy lounges.

Thats why until AB brings real C class on intra European routes I will stay away from them.

I normally use AA First Class lounges, which AB lounges are not even close to, also BA, AY and IB lounges in hub airports are vastly superior to anything AB has. Also I do appreciate something more substantial than a sandwich when I fly (I am frequently on medium hauls to DME), and maybe even a vodka cocktail. I would have to pay extra for all of this on AB while hoping to get the middle seat empty and enduring crappy lounges.

Thats why until AB brings real C class on intra European routes I will stay away from them.

Depends on your Airport the lounges are not that bad (they use BA, AY and IB Lounges as well).

Who needs a Business Class? On lounger routes you can add a Gourmet Menu for a few Euros. I get seat blocking as Oneworld Emerald.

You can easily buy a second ticket (for just the fare) to block the seat next to you.

All that for a fraction of the price of LH Business Class?

Yes, a value for money business class would be great - especially for TP/SC Earning!

Depends on your Airport the lounges are not that bad (they use BA, AY and IB Lounges as well).

Who needs a Business Class? On lounger routes you can add a Gourmet Menu for a few Euros. I get seat blocking as Oneworld Emerald.

You can easily buy a second ticket (for just the fare) to block the seat next to you.

All that for a fraction of the price of LH Business Class?

Yes, a value for money business class would be great - especially for TP/SC Earning!

Based on my experiences, buying a second seat next to me would not cost "a fraction of LH C", in fact it would be at least the same amount or more. Also, I dont want to "buy up" anything when I fly, I want a premium experience (at least in service), without foil tray and plastic fork with AB "gourmet" meal. AB just doesn't work for me without C, there is no justifying really. And as a OW Emerald myself I dont want to call AB and fight with them over the benfits Im supposed to get, its not worth my time.

In regard to the lounges, thats exactly my point, ANY other OW lounge would be better than AB, thats why they need to either offer a real C product with real lounges or stay the way they are, but without my business.

Based on my experiences, buying a second seat next to me would not cost "a fraction of LH C", in fact it would be at least the same amount or more. Also, I dont want to "buy up" anything when I fly, I want a premium experience (at least in service), without foil tray and plastic fork with AB "gourmet" meal. AB just doesn't work for me without C, there is no justifying really. And as a OW Emerald myself I dont want to call AB and fight with them over the benfits Im supposed to get, its not worth my time.

In regard to the lounges, thats exactly my point, ANY other OW lounge would be better than AB, thats why they need to either offer a real C product with real lounges or stay the way they are, but without my business.

Really?: LH C Ticket MUC-TXL cost about 800 Euro.
If I book Economy: Seat Blocking is hit and miss, the seat is awful.
Non-Flexible C Tickets are not a great discount.

I can get AB tickets for well under 200 Euro for my flights. I got 1C automatically assigned for most of the flights. 100% Seat blocking rate. Even with some rebooking fee I was much cheaper than the LH C Ticket.

I could change my online reservation on qantas.com without any problems. I had no problems in doing seat reservations by phone (what I have to do with other airlines like LX as well).

If you really want an empty seat next to you, you can call and you only pay the fee (not the ridiculous taxes) for that. You can do that with LH and AB!

So what do I get for the 600 Euro with LH? Seat is worse! A little snack, a few miles? Sitting in front of the ego-bustig curtain?

Since last year I always booked LH-C. The prices are not understandable now. The product was enhanced constantly: NEK Seat, no wardrobe, fewer miles.

Yes and my clients changed their behaviour as well. They know that we can save a lot of money, if we plan our meetings a bit ahead. I do not mind buying fully flexible tickets, but if we now fix a meeting we agree which ticket I book. In the past they just payed the expensive flex tickets without thinking about it. LH did a bad job in outpricing itself.

Really?: LH C Ticket MUC-TXL cost about 800 Euro.
If I book Economy: Seat Blocking is hit and miss, the seat is awful.
Non-Flexible C Tickets are not a great discount.

I can get AB tickets for well under 200 Euro for my flights. I got 1C automatically assigned for most of the flights. 100% Seat blocking rate. Even with some rebooking fee I was much cheaper than the LH C Ticket.

I could change my online reservation on qantas.com without any problems. I had no problems in doing seat reservations by phone (what I have to do with other airlines like LX as well).

If you really want an empty seat next to you, you can call and you only pay the fee (not the ridiculous taxes) for that. You can do that with LH and AB!

So what do I get for the 600 Euro with LH? Seat is worse! A little snack, a few miles? Sitting in front of the ego-bustig curtain?

Since last year I always booked LH-C. The prices are not understandable now. The product was enhanced constantly: NEK Seat, no wardrobe, fewer miles.

Yes and my clients changed their behaviour as well. They know that we can save a lot of money, if we plan our meetings a bit ahead. I do not mind buying fully flexible tickets, but if we now fix a meeting we agree which ticket I book. In the past they just payed the expensive flex tickets without thinking about it. LH did a bad job in outpricing itself.

Different strokes for different folks. My routes within Europe vary, but the ones where I would consider AB would be anything from Germany to DME. My flights are often booked last minute and the price between C on LH and Y on AB are not that dramatic, definitely not the 200 vs 800 comparison.

I understand your point about the ability to have an empty seat next to you as OW Emerald. That may be true, but I dont want to call and chance it with an agent, I just want that empty seat guaranteed like in LH C without calling anyone. I also want my food and drink on flights over 3 hours, AB sandwich isnt cutting it and I want free booze (let me be frank) and my nice lounge. I dont want AB sad excuse for a lounge or to deal with some BOB meals and BOB drinks. Also, Im pretty sure the seats on LH and AB are almost identical (I didnt notice any difference).

Call me lazy, I just want all of these services bundled into one ticket, I dont want to call, beg, pay per item. Thats why I dont fly AB. I actually flew with them and had a very uncomfortable experience with my bags lost at the end of the trip and total lack of care from anyone in AB. Maybe Im jaded.

I dont love LH C at all, believe me. I think they are mediocre at best. However, their bundled C product suits my needs for the routes I mentioned. I am now flying mostly OW instead of S and will be taking AY or BA or even IB until AB gets a real C. It's for sure not AB vs. LH for me, its AB vs any other full service carrier, which AB is not in my book!