oneworld - ex-TLV DONE3 vs ex-HKG DCIR22

My partner and I used to make frequent use of ex-U.S. DCIRxx fares, but after the huge fare increases a few years back, switched to DONEx fares starting outside North America. We'd use miles or inexpensive fares for the positioning flights, and book multiple stop-offs in the U.S. Caribbean, and Canada, including one 6-8 month one at home, effectively making it into two trips. This allowed us to travel lots of fun places, put us on comfortable flights (and upgrade to F on 3-class AA flights), and make sure I requalified as EXP. We generally try to use the DONEx for me, and miles for him.

For 2013, we're thinking of an ex-HKG DCIR22. The price is reasonable enough (at least before we find out what taxes and fees will be) that we can buy both tickets, eliminating the huge hassle of finding premium award space for him, especially since we want to go to Sydney for Mardi Gras.

One problem is that my 2013 work travel looks to be very light, so a DCIR22 won't give me anywhere near enough to requalify. I could purchase my positioning flights, but it's tough to find reasonable I fares, they have a 6-month maximum stay (we want a 7-month stop at home in the middle of the DCIR22), if we need to adjust the dates, there's a hefty penalty, and I'd still need at least another (maybe 2) long-haul trip to requalify.

So, I'm thinking of purchasing either another ex-HKG DCIRxx, or an ex-TLV DONE3 to serve as positioning for the joint DCIR22 and also give me enough flights to requalify (and stop off for a day or two here and there to relax). The base prices seem about the same for an ex-HKG DCIR26 and an ex-TLV DONE3, but I'm not sure how much tax & tip will add, or how much difference it will make if I choose certain routes or carriers. For example, is there a huge difference if one option has long-hault BA flights and the other has CX or QF? (I know with award trips, BA has very high fuel surcharges, but don't know if this applies to RTW fares as well.)

Here are a couple of options I'm thinking of:

ex-HKG DCIR26 starting at the end of the joint DCIR22; for this one's HKG-U.S. flights my partner would join me using miles as his ending positioning flights; the remainder would be just for me to requalify and maybe have a few days more to relax while doing so.

hkg-nrt-dfw-san-lax-mel-adl-syd-akl-hkg
25,628 per Great Circle Mapper

Or:

ex-TLV DONE3 starting before the joint DCIR22; for this one's U.S.-HKG flights my partner would join me using miles for his starting positioning flights. It pauses in HKG for us to do the joint CircPac. After the joint one ends in HKG, I resume the DONE3 back to TLV.

tlv-lhr-bud-lhr-lax-mia-cur-mia-lax-san-dfw-nrt-hkg
hkg-nrt-lhr-tlv 36,210 per Great Circle Mapper

What do people think? Obviously, I can get a lot more miles out of the DONE3, but will it be a lot more expensive with taxes and fees?

tlv-lhr-bud-lhr-lax-mia-cur-mia-lax-san-dfw-nrt-hkg-nrt-lhr-tlv... 36,210 per Great Circle Mapper

What do people think? Obviously, I can get a lot more miles out of the DONE3, but will it be a lot more expensive with taxes and fees?

First, you have two NA transcons, so the route is ineligible (LAX-MIA-LAX).

Second, if BA issues the ticket at TLV you'll pay dearly for the fuel surcharges. Better to contact AA's GSA, Tal Aviation. Set up the trip through the AA RTW desk and just have Tal do the ticketing.

Or, look at originating in Amman instead - in those cases AA issues the ticket so it's easier to avoid BA fuel fines. As for whether you'll pick them back up using QF or CX longhaul, my sense is the risk will be higher with QF than CX, but I'd do some dummy route planning (using the RTW tool) to see what the differences might be.

Second, if BA issues the ticket at TLV you'll pay dearly for the fuel surcharges. Better to contact AA's GSA, Tal Aviation. Set up the trip through the AA RTW desk and just have Tal do the ticketing.

Or, look at originating in Amman instead - in those cases AA issues the ticket so it's easier to avoid BA fuel fines. As for whether you'll pick them back up using QF or CX longhaul, my sense is the risk will be higher with QF than CX, but I'd do some dummy route planning (using the RTW tool) to see what the differences might be.

Agreed. I have been doing DONE's ex-AMM. If you go AMM-Asia/NA directly without transiting LHR you'll save hundreds in taxes/fees/etc.

First, you have two NA transcons, so the route is ineligible (LAX-MIA-LAX).

Second, if BA issues the ticket at TLV you'll pay dearly for the fuel surcharges. Better to contact AA's GSA, Tal Aviation. Set up the trip through the AA RTW desk and just have Tal do the ticketing.

Or, look at originating in Amman instead - in those cases AA issues the ticket so it's easier to avoid BA fuel fines. As for whether you'll pick them back up using QF or CX longhaul, my sense is the risk will be higher with QF than CX, but I'd do some dummy route planning (using the RTW tool) to see what the differences might be.Thanks for catching the two transcons -- easy to sub a DFW connection for one. I was planning on having the AA RTW desk set it up the ex-TLV ticket, and issue either through their agent there or during a trip to Canada.

Agreed. I have been doing DONE's ex-AMM. If you go AMM-Asia/NA directly without transiting LHR you'll save hundreds in taxes/fees/etc.Makes sense, especially if there was some way to avoid Europe entirely (maybe there isn't).

... especially if there was some way to avoid Europe entirely (maybe there isn't).

Well there is and there isn't

The demise of the ORD-DEL flight, together with the lack of a Oneworld flight between Africa and The Americas (either North or South), means Europe MUST be included in a RTW ticket

But if you're looking to avoid the continent of Europe, as opposed to the larger geographic area that Oneworld includes in its definition of Europe (Europe plus the Middle East and North Africa), you can - RJ has direct flights from AMM to JFK, ORD, YUL and DTW

I priced the two options. The ex-HKG DCIR26 has $643 in taxes and fees (4,993 HKD) while the ex-TLV DONE3 has $1,335 in taxes and fees!

Any advice on reducing the taxes and fees on the ex-TLV DONE3? Is it the airline, the flights, the countries, the stops?

I priced the two options. The ex-HKG DCIR26 has $643 in taxes and fees (4,993 HKD) while the ex-TLV DONE3 has $1,335 in taxes and fees!

Any advice on reducing the taxes and fees on the ex-TLV DONE3? Is it the airline, the flights, the countries, the stops?

Do you know how much of these are due to BA and/or LHR? You might want to try MAD in place of LHR and see if it makes a difference.

Well there is and there isn't

The demise of the ORD-DEL flight, together with the lack of a Oneworld flight between Africa and The Americas (either North or South), means Europe MUST be included in a RTW ticketBut even with that flight, the rules still counted ORD-DEL has having traveled through Europe (forcing an xONE3 at min even if only traveling NA and Asia).

Do you know how much of these are due to BA and/or LHR? You might want to try MAD in place of LHR and see if it makes a difference.Is there a way to find out how the taxes and fees break down?

I recreated the itinerary using the online booking too to see if it would tell mel. I had to delete one North America stop to save sectors, so the total is less by the cost of the extra segment. Here is what it says:

1 Adult(s) x (6,204.00 + 1,247.98) = 7,451.98 USD

Adult traveller(s)
Surcharge 791.43 USD
Multiple Surcharges 29.50 USD
Israel Departure Tax 25.10 USD
UK Passenger Service Charge 111.29 USD
Tax description unavailable (OYCB) 55.75 USD
Passenger Service charge for Germany 31.58 USD
Airport Security Charge - Germany 8.43 USD
U.S. Customs Fee 11.00 USD
U.S. International Transportation Tax - Departure 33.40 USD
International Arrival Transportation Tax (USA) 33.40 USD
U.S. Animal and Plant Inspection Service Users Fee 10.00 USD
Immigration and Naturalization Service Fee 14.00 USD
September 11th Security Fee 10.00 USD
Tax description unavailable (ANEB) 32.00 USD
Passenger Service Facilities Charge - Japan 25.01 USD
Tax description unavailable (OISE) 6.13 USD
Hong Kong Air Passenger Departure Tax 15.46 USD
Passenger Facility Charges 4.50 USD
1,247.98 USD

The big charge is this "surcharge" for $791.43. Is that a fuel surcharge?

Subbing MAD for LHR didn't make much difference (it reduced the taxes/fees by well under $100).

Eliminating the TATL entirely, so TLV-AMM-JFK-LAX instead of TLV-LHR-LAX made a big difference, cutting the taxes/fees in half, to $669.41. Interestingly, the largest item switches from a generic "surcharge" of $791.4 to "Airline Fuel Surcharge" of $402.39.

But even with that flight, the rules still counted ORD-DEL has having traveled through Europe (forcing an xONE3 at min even if only traveling NA and Asia).

It's all rather moot now, given that the flight has been dropped, but for precision

the rules did NOT count it has having travelled through Europe, merely that it was a trans-atlantic flight
it's true that an NA and Asia only itinerary was considered a xONE3
but it was possible to have other xONE3 itineraries, such as NA-Asia-SWP - see this thread Musings ORD-DEL flight on a xONEn - it's like a Circle Pacific ticket - only better (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/oneworld/1100993-musings-ord-del-flight-xonen-its-like-circle-pacific-ticket-only-better.html)

Subbing MAD for LHR didn't make much difference (it reduced the taxes/fees by well under $100).

Eliminating the TATL entirely, so TLV-AMM-JFK-LAX instead of TLV-LHR-LAX made a big difference, cutting the taxes/fees in half, to $669.41. Interestingly, the largest item switches from a generic "surcharge" of $791.4 to "Airline Fuel Surcharge" of $402.39.

Very interesting, maybe you are getting hit by the YQ that AA introduced last year for some/many international flights.

Very interesting, maybe you are getting hit by the YQ that AA introduced last year for some/many international flights.Is there a way to find out what a generic "surcharge" is versus a specific (and honest) "fuel surcharge" Or to know the surcharges for different areas, cities, flights?

In addition to the ex-TLV DONE3 and the ex-HKG DCIR26 (I bumped it up), I'm also mulling an ex-JNB DGLOB34 or DONE4, which are all right about $6k. But it's frustrating to have to call the RTW desk, have them put something on hold, then check back in a few days to get the price, for every possible change that might affect the cost.

Is there a way to find out what a generic "surcharge" is versus a specific (and honest) "fuel surcharge" Or to know the surcharges for different areas, cities, flights?

In addition to the ex-TLV DONE3 and the ex-HKG DCIR26 (I bumped it up), I'm also mulling an ex-JNB DGLOB34 or DONE4, which are all right about $6k. But it's frustrating to have to call the RTW desk, have them put something on hold, then check back in a few days to get the price, for every possible change that might affect the cost.

What used to be reliable, might still be, is to build the itinerary on ITA. The price is wrong but the YQ and fees seemed to be accurate. This also work(ed) calculate fees and/or YQ for award travel.

What used to be reliable, might still be, is to build the itinerary on ITA. The price is wrong but the YQ and fees seemed to be accurate. This also work(ed) calculate fees and/or YQ for award travel.Thanks!

I had the AA RTW desk price an ex-TLV DONE3 that avoided LHR, going TLV-MAD-HEL-JFK. Personally, I'd much rather fly LHR-LAX on AA on a DONEx upgraded to F with a VIP, but I wanted to see if doing the TATL from somewhere not in the heart of Europe made a big difference. The RTW desk priced it at $6,638, including $435 in taxes and fees, a big difference from the $1300 on the ex-TLV DONE3 going TLV-LHR-LAX.

I priced the same ex-TLV DONE3 going TLV-MAD-HEL-JFK on the OneWorld tool, and it was $7,421.98 including $1,217.98 in taxes and fees (including a "Surcharge" of $506.70 and "Multiple Surcharges" of $ 468.87). Is this because the first carrier was IB and they charge overall higher YQ than when AA issues the ticket?

If you have segments to spare you can do TLV-MAD-DFW-LAX, I think that several days a week IB has a wide body with flat J seats on this route followed by AA's 777 from MAD to DFW which you can upgrade to F.

I'd forgotten, but the itineraries all included DFW-NRT-HKG on AA. I switched that to LAX-HKG on CX, and the surcharges dropped dramatically, to under $300. Even adding LHR-LAX back in didn't hurt. I never expected that the AA flight to Japan was a problem.

If you have segments to spare you can do TLV-MAD-DFW-LAX, I think that several days a week IB has a wide body with flat J seats on this route followed by AA's 777 from MAD to DFW which you can upgrade to F.Thanks, I didn't realize AA flew 777s to MAD.

Thanks, I didn't realize AA flew 777s to MAD.

Will be flying, starting June 1st IIRC, announced about 3 weeks ago.

This is odd. I used the on-line tool to price an ex-JNB DONE4, with the first flight JNB-LHR booked as AA 6444 but operated by BA (I'm surprised it let me book it as a code-share; usually when I accidentally select a code-share the tool tells me to book is as the operating carrier.) The tool quoted me $6,371.00 base + $516.64) = $6,887.64 USD. I asked the AA RTW desk to price the same itinerary, and they quote me 54,716 rand -- $7,229!