Marriott Rewards (including Ritz-Carlton) - Marriott Rewards 2012 Hotel Category Changes

We have the list of new hotel categories for 2012 for you, which are effective for all reservations made after March 15, 2012.

Based upon your feedback in years past, we are releasing the full list of changes for 2012 (categories 1-8). You’ll find each hotel moving downward or upward by one category level within this PDF (https://www.rewards-insiders.marriott.com/servlet/JiveServlet/download/1472-1-16005/2012%20Rewards%20Hotel%20Category%20Changes%20List .pdf). To give you a sense of the impact of these changes with respect to the overall portfolio of brands and properties, 3% of hotels are decreasing by one category (100 hotels) and 15% are increasing by one category (526 hotels).

Again, these changes will go in to effect starting Thursday, March 15, 2012 so any reservations made prior to March 15 will be honored at the current category. If you have an existing redemption reservation at a hotel that is decreasing in category, you may call Marriott Rewards® Customer Support at 801-468-4000 to adjust the reservation after March 15.

Thanks and safe travels!
Andy & the Marriott Rewards team

We have the list of new hotel categories for 2012 for you, which are effective for all reservations made after March 15, 2012.

Based upon your feedback in years past, we are releasing the full list of changes for 2012 (categories 1-8). You’ll find each hotel moving downward or upward by one category level within this PDF (https://www.rewards-insiders.marriott.com/servlet/JiveServlet/download/1472-1-16005/2012%20Rewards%20Hotel%20Category%20Changes%20List .pdf). To give you a sense of the impact of these changes with respect to the overall portfolio of brands and properties, 3% of hotels are decreasing by one category (100 hotels) and 15% are increasing by one category (526 hotels).

Again, these changes will go in to effect starting Thursday, March 15, 2012 so any reservations made prior to March 15 will be honored at the current category. If you have an existing redemption reservation at a hotel that is decreasing in category, you may call Marriott Rewards® Customer Support at 801-468-4000 to adjust the reservation after March 15.

Thanks and safe travels!
Andy & the Marriott Rewards team

In case you're wondering how a JW could actually move down a category....from the PDF:

Marriott Rewards has 8 hotel categories which are determined by prior
year redemption volume at each hotel and are not determined by brand, rate, amenities, location, or services offered.

I didn't think the St. Pancras would stay a 7 for long!

Thanks for the heads up. We will b!*ch and moan about the properties moving up but you are forgiven as long as this type of notice is given to us in advance. Good work.

^ Glad to see you post the full list of hotel category reassignments this year before the changes go into effect.

I can spend more time analyzing the hotel rewards this year rather than spend hours on social media rants harrassing Marriott Rewards for intransparency with its members like I did the past three years.

Thank you. I think it is the right thing to do for Marriott Rewards members.

A big ^ for releasing the entire list this year. Thank you!

Grosvenor House also moved from a Category 7 to a Cat. 8, along with the London Marriott Marble Arch. Meaning all Marriotts and Rens in Central London will be Cat. 8 after March 15.

In general the 2012 Hotel Category changes is a pretty big devaluation of MR Points. :td:

In general the 2012 Hotel Category changes is a pretty big devaluation of MR Points. :td:

I do not agree. As is stated in the PDF - the category of a hotel is driven by the number of points redemption nights in the previous year. Thus a hotel that is in demand for points redemptions will rise up the categories and those in less demand will drop down. This is simply the laws of supply and demand in operation. If the demand for points redemption nights at a hotel goes up then they increase the category next year to reflect that increased demand. The supply of rooms cannot increase unless they build more rooms at the hotel. The only alternative that I see would be to restrict demand with non-availability or blackout dates.

This clearly degrades the value of the annual free night that comes along with the Marriott Premier credit card. Some of the hotels that one could have stayed at in the past using the free night cert. would no longer be possibilities.

All five cat 5 full service properties in downtown New Orleans move to cat 6. That one hurts.

I do thank you for releasing this list in advance.

I do not agree. As is stated in the PDF - the category of a hotel is driven by the number of points redemption nights in the previous year. Thus a hotel that is in demand for points redemptions will rise up the categories and those in less demand will drop down. This is simply the laws of supply and demand in operation. If the demand for points redemption nights at a hotel goes up then they increase the category next year to reflect that increased demand. The supply of rooms cannot increase unless they build more rooms at the hotel. The only alternative that I see would be to restrict demand with non-availability or blackout dates.

I disagree. If 3% go down and 15% go up then it's a further devaluation of our Marriott Pesos in my opinion. Not a big deal but I do think it is a clear devaluation. You have less options with the same number of points.

Again, ... so any reservations made prior to March 15 will be honored at the current category.

Is this regardless of stay date?

A big ^ for releasing the entire list this year. Thank you!

+1 It's great that we have time to 'react' before the change.

This clearly degrades the value of the annual free night that comes along with the Marriott Premier credit card. Some of the hotels that one could have stayed at in the past using the free night cert. would no longer be possibilities.

Definitely. There are several cat 5 properties in big cities which represented good redemption values that are moving up to category 6 (i.e. the last remaining cat 5 central Boston property (Courtyard Tremont), the Courtyard in San Francisco, the Ren in Hong Kong, etc.).

It's also getting harder to use the Cat 4 certs from the Megabonus promotions. One of the great redemption opportunities, the Courtyard Philadelphia Downtown, is now moving to Cat 5.

I disagree. If 3% go down and 15% go up then it's a further devaluation of our Marriott Pesos in my opinion. Not a big deal but I do think it is a clear devaluation. You have less options with the same number of points.

It does seem to be a rather large gap between the two. Also there are a number of properties in large US cities that are moving up (hotels in Philly, Minneapolis, Boston, Atlanta, Chicago, San Diego, San Fran, NYC are all moving up), many of the Hawaii properties are moving up, there are a number of Fairfields and CY's moving up (odd to think that I can stay at the EWR Renaissance as a Cat 4 or the Fairfield EWR as a Cat 4)

Definitely. There are several cat 5 properties in big cities which represented good redemption values that are moving up to category 6 (i.e. the last remaining cat 5 central Boston property (Courtyard Tremont), the Courtyard in San Francisco, the Ren in Hong Kong, etc.).

It's also getting harder to use the Cat 4 certs from the Megabonus promotions. One of the great redemption opportunities, the Courtyard Philadelphia Downtown, is now moving to Cat 5.

This was my reaction too. Looks like jumps from 5 to 6 are pretty common -- with a few of my favorites making the jump.

I already have a bit of trouble finding good redemptions for the 1-4 certs that they give during the megabonus, and this looks like it will make it a bit harder. Springhills are, by and large, the way to go on those, I'm finding.

huge devaluation. All of the Cat4 gems are going up in category. I shall list the blows to elites once again:

- removed EEO (no advance notice)
- will soon remove 135k/$1k (almost no advance notice - we had to come up with it)
- removed a/i packages (no advance notice)
- removed US Air FF programs (received advance notice I believe - AA is the big loser here)
- same old promos(while other chains come up with great promos)
- downgraded property(Cat 4 to Cat 5) with no advanced notice(JW MI)
- Huge devaluation now(advance notice but does it matter at this stage)


Lets see what the next improvement will be. To be honest I have not seen any real improvement for the last 2 years, despite their competitors to be showing REAL improvements.

Is this regardless of stay date?

@Old Hickory, that's correct.

And for anyone interested in a full directory, check out this PDF (https://www.rewards-insiders.marriott.com/servlet/JiveServlet/download/1472-2-16006/2012%20Hotel%20Category%20Directory.pdf) which includes the changes effective March 15, 2012.

After March 15, a dynamic directory of 2012 hotel categories (https://www.marriott.com/rewards/pointsGridPopUp.mi?awardType=Standard&category=) will be available online (currently showing 2011 hotel categories). Just select a hotel category from the dropdown menu in the top right corner.

Definitely thanks to Marriott for providing the complete list this year. It is appreciated (even if we would prefer more hotels to drop in cat level rather than rise. :eek: ).

This clearly degrades the value of the annual free night that comes along with the Marriott Premier credit card. Some of the hotels that one could have stayed at in the past using the free night cert. would no longer be possibilities.

Marriott Hong Kong SkyCity is going up to Category 5... that stinks!

Grosvenor House also moved from a Category 7 to a Cat. 8, along with the London Marriott Marble Arch. Meaning all Marriotts and Rens in Central London will be Cat. 8 after March 15.



London Marriott Hotel Kensington moves from 6 to 7 so we will still have one cat 7 that's pretty much central.

The four high category hotels in Aruba dropping one category are already listed under the lower categories. The three cat 8 properties are currently listed as Category 7 and the Renaissance currently shows as a category 5.

What is up with that?

These hotels were listed as category risers in 2011 when the three hotels went from 7 to 8, but apparently they had already dropped back one category since March 2011.

Marriott Hong Kong SkyCity is going up to Category 5... that stinks!

+1. The strange thing is that the hotel is in the middle of somewhere of nowhere, and there are tons of crews staying there (I guess they don't pay that much for their stays).

This year hotel category change is more like a devaluation of points and e-certs from Megabonus don't worth as much as before.

I didn't count out the exact number but looks like we lost about 80+ cat 4 properties and picked up 12? I can't see how that's anything but a large devaluation of this program and the cat 4 cert.

I noticed 3 different cat 4's that I've used certs at are now going to 5's. At this point the cat 4 cert is virtually worthless to me. I will no longer attempt to earn the cat 4 certs during promotions.

Marriott, how about making these certs transferable so they maintain some level of value?

Marriott Concierge:

I cannot find the following hotel on the new lists as either moving up or down, or in the portfolio past 3/15/12 -

(Soon to be Renaissance?) Hotel Ambassadeur Juan les Pins

https://www.marriott.com/hotels/travel/jlpbr-hotel-ambassadeur/

Is it to remain a Category 7?

Yes, this is a Major devaluation, there is no question about that.

Compare this list to the one that SPG put out and you will see why I believe that this is a severe and unwarranted devaluation when compared to other hotel chains.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/starwood-preferred-guest/1314991-category-changes-2012-a.html

https://lacek.hs.llnwd.net/e1/starwood/2012categorychange/SPG_CategoryChanges2012.pdf

huge devaluation. All of the Cat4 gems are going up in category. I shall list the blows to elites once again:

- removed EEO (no advance notice)
- will soon remove 135k/$1k (almost no advance notice - we had to come up with it)
- removed a/i packages (no advance notice)
- removed US Air FF programs (received advance notice I believe - AA is the big loser here)
- same old promos(while other chains come up with great promos)
- downgraded property(Cat 4 to Cat 5) with no advanced notice(JW MI)
- Huge devaluation now(advance notice but does it matter at this stage)


Lets see what the next improvement will be. To be honest I have not seen any real improvement for the last 2 years, despite their competitors to be showing REAL improvements.

I would also throw in the devaluation in quality / quantity of most of the Concierge Lounges over the last few years. Definitely noticeable since 2008 IMO.

The four high category hotels in Aruba dropping one category are already listed under the lower categories. The three cat 8 properties are currently listed as Category 7 and the Renaissance currently shows as a category 5.

What is up with that?

These hotels were listed as category risers in 2011 when the three hotels went from 7 to 8, but apparently they had already dropped back one category since March 2011.

The Aruba changes happened a few weeks ago. I'd been watching them frequently and they definitely were higher at the beginning of Feb.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marriott-rewards/1314052-hotel-category-changes.html

It is rather ironic that the Atlanta Marriott Marquis moves up a category when Host Hotels (owner of the hotel and once called Host Marriott and a part of the chain?!) says Atlanta was the only major US hotel market to go south last year in both RevPar and Occupancy. The article appeared two or three days ago in USA Today...

Where do you find the category rating when looking at the hotels on the Marriott website?

I appreciate the heads-up on the changes.

Having said that... this is a major devaluation.

The (e) certificates with Mega-Bonus promos or Chase VISA are highly affected.

This is just another treason why I've moved 80% of my stays to SPG. I only stay at Marriott based on location & price.

Marriott is making it easier than ever to move to other programs without looking back.

What I'd like to know is... what is Marriott doing to enhance their "loyalty" program? They were quick to increase hotel levels, eliminate all-inclusive rewards but it's been months since they pulled the EEO offers and still no word what's replaced them or how they intend on improving them?

I appreciate the heads-up on the changes.

Having said that... this is a major devaluation.

The (e) certificates with Mega-Bonus promos or Chase VISA are highly affected.

This is just another treason why I've moved 80% of my stays to SPG. I only stay at Marriott based on location & price.

Marriott is making it easier than ever to move to other programs without looking back.

What I'd like to know is... what is Marriott doing to enhance their "loyalty" program? They were quick to increase hotel levels, eliminate all-inclusive rewards but it's been months since they pulled the EEO offers and still no word what's replaced them or how they intend on improving them?

I agree. It's SPG, IHG and Carlson or even HHonors for me, after this.

Both the up to Cat 4 and anniversary up to Cat 5 certs are significantly affected.

Contrast that with the free night cert for any hotel in the IHG system for an annual fee of $49.00!

And, yes, there is no foreign currency charge as they are both issued by Chase!

PS -- Imverge, I don't think it is treason on your part!

I recently switched my preferred hotel chain from SPG to Marriott and has given them a lot of business in the past. I even applied for the Chase Marriott card, now those points and the 1-4 category e-certificate is worth way less. At the very least Mariott should as a courtesy upgrade those welcome cert to category 1-5 given this devaluation. I am seriously thinking about switching to SPG and taking my business back from Marriott.

I also noticed that 3 properties where I used cat 1-4 certs are going up a notch, is it possible that these provide the best value so are popular and so go up a notch. Does the formula ignore Cat 1-4 cert use, one would hope so?

I also noticed that 3 properties where I used cat 1-4 certs are going up a notch, is it possible that these provide the best value so are popular and so go up a notch. Does the formula ignore Cat 1-4 cert use, one would hope so?

No. If use use your Certs at a Cat 4 that is going to a Cat 5, you had better apply a cert to that property. They may allow you to place points for that hotel at the old rate and then when your e-cert is issued permit you to substitute it in for the points reservation placeholder, but then again, they may not allow it.

If you are writing about hotels that still will be below or at a CAT 4 after the devaluation, then it is immaterial as you still will be able to use the Certs at those hotels.

If you are writing about hotels that still will be below or at a CAT 4 after the devaluation, then it is immaterial as you still will be able to use the Certs at those hotels.

What I was implying is do these cat 1-4 certs drive these category changes. The certs value takes a big hit this year.

What I was implying is do these cat 1-4 certs drive these category changes. The certs value takes a big hit this year.

The criteria Marriott listed for the changes did indicate they take the number of reward redemptions into account, and as far as this calculation is concerned for them, I wouldn't be surprised if Megabus certs are treated the same as straight out point redemptions.

Also, having had more time to review the list of changes, I'm not sure I'm even going to make an attempt to participate in future Megabonus promotions involving the cat 1-4 certificates. Unfortunately, most of my travel is to large cities, and domestically there are fewer and fewer properties located in big cities that are cat 4 and under. (I'll note, however, that there are still some pretty good cat 4 redemption opportunities in certain foreign cities, like Beijing and Shanghai.)

The criteria Marriott listed for the changes did indicate they take the number of reward redemptions into account, and as far as this calculation is concerned for them, I wouldn't be surprised if Megabus certs are treated the same as straight out point redemptions.

Also, having had more time to review the list of changes, I'm not sure I'm even going to make an attempt to participate in future Megabonus promotions involving the cat 1-4 certificates. Unfortunately, most of my travel is to large cities, and domestically there are fewer and fewer properties located in big cities that are cat 4 and under. (I'll note, however, that there are still some pretty good cat 4 redemption opportunities in certain foreign cities, like Beijing and Shanghai.)

The Philly area had 6 properties that went up and none that went down.

I wonder if more people from the US stayed stateside and used points here.

Yes, this is a Major devaluation, there is no question about that.

Compare this list to the one that SPG put out and you will see why I believe that this is a severe and unwarranted devaluation when compared to other hotel chains.


Starwood had 13% of its hotels moving down and 17% moving up vs. 3% going down and 15% going up with Marriott.

Starwood had 13% of its hotels moving down and 17% moving up vs. 3% going down and 15% going up with Marriott.

Marrriott are you listening? Those are your top elite customers. Marriott Consierge please relay our message to the top. We would love to give you more $$ but at this rate you give us no choice.

Starwood had 13% of its hotels moving down and 17% moving up vs. 3% going down and 15% going up with Marriott.

What these percentages tell me is that Marriott probably had a surge in MR point redemption stays in 2011 - which has resulted in a lot of locations moving up a category. Now if this results in a drop in redemptions in 2012 then next year the trend should reverse.

As to it being difficult to find a good Cat 4 to use the cert in - try finding a cat 4 hotel in the UK at all - there are hardly any. I end up using my certs in a cat 3.

huge devaluation. All of the Cat4 gems are going up in category. I shall list the blows to elites once again:

- removed EEO (no advance notice)
- will soon remove 135k/$1k (almost no advance notice - we had to come up with it)
- removed a/i packages (no advance notice)
- removed US Air FF programs (received advance notice I believe - AA is the big loser here)
- same old promos(while other chains come up with great promos)
- downgraded property(Cat 4 to Cat 5) with no advanced notice(JW MI)
- Huge devaluation now(advance notice but does it matter at this stage)


Lets see what the next improvement will be. To be honest I have not seen any real improvement for the last 2 years, despite their competitors to be showing REAL improvements.

Question about US Air FF programs. This is meant as generic term--correct? They are not dropping US Airways are they? (I know they dropped AA 1-2 years ago.)

What these percentages tell me is that Marriott probably had a surge in MR point redemption stays in 2011 - which has resulted in a lot of locations moving up a category. Now if this results in a drop in redemptions in 2012 then next year the trend should reverse.

If Marriott still uses the redemption rate as a criteria next year. The upgrades of cat 4 hotels to cat 5 is a way to devalue the e-certs.

you have to say this is a horrible move on their end, didn't they just make some changes not too long ago and now another one, I like Marriott but changes after changes i don't think they are that good anymore, they make you use more and more points for redemption but don't give you the same earning power with the $$$ spend......time to find another hotel suitable to you.

I will definitely spend a lot less with them going forward, most of the good hotels going up one category, for those going down either they are not in a good location or old, guess that's the whole purpose of changing category, but 3% downgrade and 15% upgrade, give me a break!!! they are even worst than inflation

Thanks for the heads up. Good work.

I will echo this on the heads up...

The error that they have committed is that they moved a number of the Full Service Marriott/Renaissance properties that were still in a city location from a Category 4 to a Category 5. This might dissaude a number of Gold and above elites from attempting the megabonus promotions, as the redemption --if one exists -- will not be at a property that could provide them with access to the lounge.

Further, many decent Category 5 properties in either desirable city locations or resort locations are moving up to a Category 6, thereby negating much of the benefit of holding the Chase Marriott Platinum Premier Visa for the free night cert. At $85/year, one could still make it work nicely if you redeem at a desirable location.

As I have stated above, one can get the similar Priority Club Visa, but instead of $85 it is $49 and instead of a diminished Cat 5 hotel supply, one can choose up to and including any Intercontinental in the whole wide world.

Thus, if both spouses have the P/C card, for approximately the amount of the Marriott Visa, one could obtain 2 P/C certs for any property in their entire portfolio!

Is this regardless of stay date?

yes

It is rather ironic that the Atlanta Marriott Marquis moves up a category when Host Hotels (owner of the hotel and once called Host Marriott and a part of the chain?!) says Atlanta was the only major US hotel market to go south last year in both RevPar and Occupancy. The article appeared two or three days ago in USA Today...

remember that might be Host's experience but might not be market wide (I'd have to go back through the data from Smith Travel but I believe the market actually showed positive RevPAR growth) and going back far enough Host Hotels was once known as Marriott Corporation (Marriott International was a division of Marriott Corporation)

I wonder any of the archive folks, do you remember what the %ages of increases/decreases have been over the years?

I wonder how that stacks vs their previous inflations...

Starwood had 13% of its hotels moving down and 17% moving up vs. 3% going down and 15% going up with Marriott.

I'm not saying your opinion isn't valid but Starwood's distribution is vastly different than MI's - this wouldn't be a fair comparison

I think that the pain here isn't the category increases themselves. We never like devaluations, but mathematically, this one really isn't that bad. 15% of hotels are going up 5K each. That averages about to 20% increase for the hotels going up, so probably only 3-4% system-wide, when all hotels are included. We've all experienced much worse.

No, I agree with others - the issue here for me are the free night certs from the Chase Visa and the mega-bonuses. The problem is that they aren't upgradeable. A cat 5 going to cat 6 may be a 20% increase, but if you want to use a cat 5 cert, you;re just SOL.

I wonder if MR would consider making these certs upgradeable? Why not alleviate some of the pain here by letting us spend 5K points to convert a cat 5 cert to cat 6, or a cat 4 to cat 5?

Glad to see that every single Marriott within 50 miles of Boston is moving up a category.

I think that the pain here isn't the category increases themselves. We never like devaluations, but mathematically, this one really isn't that bad. 15% of hotels are going up 5K each. That averages about to 20% increase for the hotels going up, so probably only 3-4% system-wide, when all hotels are included. We've all experienced much worse.

No, I agree with others - the issue here for me are the free night certs from the Chase Visa and the mega-bonuses. The problem is that they aren't upgradeable. A cat 5 going to cat 6 may be a 20% increase, but if you want to use a cat 5 cert, you;re just SOL.

I wonder if MR would consider making these certs upgradeable? Why not alleviate some of the pain here by letting us spend 5K points to convert a cat 5 cert to cat 6, or a cat 4 to cat 5?

I don't know, I think what get's some of us is...

Glad to see that every single Marriott within 50 miles of Boston is moving up a category.

A number of properties around Boston and Philly and other major cities are all moving up and just about every EWR property. These are the hotels that I would use points at, not the Courtyard in Sioux Falls, SD that is unaffected (no offense to the Sioux Falls CY, I've stayed there many times and its a nice place).

Glad to see that every single Marriott within 50 miles of Boston is moving up a category.

Thats the first thing I noticed as I am in Boston quarterly and always used to stay at Marriotts with points. Going elsewhere on the hotel choice after these changes.

These are the hotels that I would use points at, not the Courtyard in Sioux Falls, SD that is unaffected (no offense to the Sioux Falls CY, I've stayed there many times and its a nice place).

That is the point - supply and demand, everyone else agrees with you and also uses their points at these very same hotels while many fewer guests use them in Sioux Falls meaning Sioux Falls should be cheaper than the others

Grosvenor House also moved from a Category 7 to a Cat. 8, along with the London Marriott Marble Arch. Meaning all Marriotts and Rens in Central London will be Cat. 8 after March 15.

In general the 2012 Hotel Category changes is a pretty big devaluation of MR Points. :td:

Summer Olympics?

Summer Olympics?

They have blocked point redemption for most London area properties during the Olympics. The only hotel I could find the last week in July was the LHR marriott and the first week in August had two more available but they are even further out of the city than LHR.

I travel to a couple of places annually that don't have Hiltons (only chain where I have status) but do have Marriotts and Starwoods. I decided to switch to Marriott and just got the Visa card. Big mistake. The card won't be worth keeping when the annual fee kicks in next year since I won't be able to use the annual cert with the properties moving up in categories. So it's back to Starwoods in those locations.

I travel to a couple of places annually that don't have Hiltons (only chain where I have status) but do have Marriotts and Starwoods. I decided to switch to Marriott and just got the Visa card. Big mistake. The card won't be worth keeping when the annual fee kicks in next year since I won't be able to use the annual cert with the properties moving up in categories. So it's back to Starwoods in those locations.

I don't know which Visa card people have in connection with the devaluation of the certs that come with them. However I will say the Premier card with the addition of 15 elite nights is worth the ~$80 annual fee. It essentially makes getting lifetime Silver a futile effort.

Yikes, that's a lot of 4 -> 5's. I really liked those Cat 4 certs too.

Anyway, a couple of questions.

1) Can I make a reservation for a future stay at the lower rate even if I don't have enough points yet? (Looking at a big award stay later this year, but still a few points shy.)

2) Can I make a reservation for a future stay at the lower category if I don't have the cert yet? (I want to use my Visa cert sometime in August at a Cat 5 that is turning into a Cat 6, but I won't get the cert deposited into my account until June.)

I am normally negative but are there are devaluations that are good? Were any hidden gems created? Probably not but trying to be positive! :)

I am normally negative but are there are devaluations that are good? Were any hidden gems created? Probably not but trying to be positive! :)

I initially had the same thought. Some of the Aruba properties dropped. But other than that you really have to go to some far out destinations (from a US perspective) to find properties that dropped (Cairo, Guam, Doha, Bogota, Amman, a few Japan props, Kuwait, Jeddah, Mumbai)

In case anyone is wondering, I count 96 properties going from 4 to 5 (and thus out of the MegaBonus redemption level). I plan on letting Marriott know that I will be cancelling 2 upcoming stays with them as a result of these changes (specifically to the Courtyard Philadelphia Downtown, in my case).

I appreciate at least some advance notice, but this is VERY hard to swallow for those of us who based future Q1 stays on the ability to use the certificates at one of those 96 locations. I currently only have 1 certificate and won't be able to get my second prior to March 15th. Why not announce these changes prior to the start of the MegaBonus so we can plan accordingly? Definitely not happy...:mad:

I doubt this means much coming from a lowly Silver, but they should know that this will directly impact upcoming stays and will give me even more incentive to switch to SPG (as if Hilton's recent devaluations wasn't enough).

(Ok, rant over...flame away ;))

you really have to go to some far out destinations (from a US perspective) to find properties that dropped (Cairo, Guam, Doha, Bogota, Amman, a few Japan props, Kuwait, Jeddah, Mumbai)

Unfortunately Bogota went up, not down.

I am normally negative but are there are devaluations that are good? Were any hidden gems created? Probably not but trying to be positive! :)

not a hidden gem but I like the Ritz Grand Cayman moving down from Tier 4 to 3.

Unfortunately Bogota went up, not down.

Bogota did both. One property went up; one went down.

Like others I appreciate the heads up, although being picky it would have helped to have more than 2 weeks notice. Still, any advance notice is appreciated.

And I appreciate Marriott (finally) providing the entire list of properties changing.

Sniff, sob, sob - I knew my beloved Grosvenor House wouldn't stay a 7, but thought we might be able to eke one more year out with it staying a 7. But looks like London all around is going up.

Also noticed both AMS properties went up a category.

Cheers.

I initially had the same thought. Some of the Aruba properties dropped. But other than that you really have to go to some far out destinations (from a US perspective) to find properties that dropped (Cairo, Guam, Doha, Bogota, Amman, a few Japan props, Kuwait, Jeddah, Mumbai)

This was my point by linking to the SPG list. At least they are honest about raising and lowering properties -- Sorry Socrates, but this time I am not in your camp.

SPG lowered the following resort and downtown city properties that are near and dear to North American travelers who likely still make up the majority of SPG members:

Sheraton Nassau Beach Resort & Casino Bahamas 4 -- 3

Le Centre Sheraton Montreal Hotel Canada Quebec 4 -- 3

The Westin La Paloma Resort & Spa US Tucson 4 -- 3

Sheraton San Diego Hotel & Marina US 4 -- 3

Sheraton Los Angeles Downtown Hotel US 4 -- 3

Sheraton La Jolla Hotel US 4 -- 3

Sheraton New Orleans Hotel US 4 -- 3

Four Points by Sheraton Historic Savannah US 3 -- 2

Sheraton Harrisburg Hershey Hotel US 3 -- 2

Sheraton Gunter Hotel San Antonio US 3 -- 2

Four Points by Sheraton San Antonio Downtown by the Riverwalk US 3 -- 2

The above proves the lie that all desirable resort or downtown city hotels must go up.

No longer any Category 4 properties in downtown Montreal? Sheraton just lowered their large central city hotel with a lounge that is open 7 days a week to a Category 3.

No more Category 4 properties in downtown New Orleans? Sheraton likewise lowered that similar property to a Category 3, as well!

As for Tucson resorts, the Westin La Paloma is head and shoulders above Marriott's Star Pass resort and it has a better location, as well, than that of the more isolated Marriott resort.

I will not even hazard a guess as to the number of North Easterners and Canadians who would like to visit the Bahamas, let alone during the high Winter Season!

Going to San Antonio during Cinquo de Mayo, or any other time? Two (2) SPG properties have been lowered to a Category 2, including the historic Gunter hotel!

And, what about the 2 locations in Los Angeles and San Diego that are at or near the core areas of those cities?

Finally, I did not even research the Sheraton Myrtle Beach Convention Center but it is not likely to be stuck in the burbs where Marriott has most of its remaining Category 4 properties.

This is a doggone shame!

I initially had the same thought. Some of the Aruba properties dropped. But other than that you really have to go to some far out destinations (from a US perspective) to find properties that dropped (Cairo, Guam, Doha, Bogota, Amman, a few Japan props, Kuwait, Jeddah, Mumbai)Not surprising Japan properties cat/tier went down with the melt down last year.

Grand Cayman RC went from tier 4 to 3! ^ So did St. Thomas RC. They're pretty close.

London properties are the ones that affect me the most, but they are the only ones where I am currently getting in excess of 1.5¢/point burn rate (already booked SPR at Cat 7) so it really doesn't surprise me that it and the JW are going to Cat 8. FWIW, I have been going to London each year and this is the first year I am using points because rates have gone up so much. The past 3 years I was able to get London props (SPR and RCC) for £132, £160, £150/night - no more as prices are now in the mid £200s. Huge difference and the inflation in prices is something to complain about it, but we all just seem to accept it. Or maybe I should say expect it, whereas with points we don't.

I think rates will continue to rise as occupancy levels rise. The good thing about that is that MAR will be a good investment, you will earn more points when you pay cash (which you will need for the higher hotel cats/tiers), and your burn rate will be much better and easily more justifiable.

So for all of those who have been paying for stays during this recession, now is the time to start using some of those points. In the last 4-5 years I have used points once for a NYE stay at Sydney Harbour Marriott in 2010. I've got just under a million points to enjoy in the next couple years. I figure the next big devaluation will come in about 3-5 years. Now that will be something to complain about. Then I will be posting links back to this post. :D

In case anyone is wondering, I count 96 properties going from 4 to 5 (and thus out of the MegaBonus redemption level).Since increase in category is based on number of award stays, it really doesn't surprise me in the least that a boatload of Cat 4s went to 5s with all the Megabonus certs being used at Cat 4 properties.

I also wonder if they look at award stays booked or stayed. In other words do they take into account future award stays that have already been booked but not yet stayed in determining the demand for increase or decrease of a hotel's category/tier?

Just sad. Huge devaluation no matter how its justified and spun.

If 25% of your paycheck was suddenly gone (i.e 20,000 points to 25,000 points) basically "overnight" there would be mass outcry. This is what just happened to our "spending" power.

And I don't buy that suddenly everyone flocked to Boston and Philadelphia this year, it wasn't quite a American Revolution bi-centennial year, was it?

Face it, they do it because they can. Its funny money. Making us use more points mean less liability they have to carry. And few people get outraged or care outside our very tiny, but highly educated, forum.

Sad again.

I do like Aruba Renn being back to a 5. Nice use of Chase Cert. That property bounces up and down like a yo yo.

In case anyone is wondering, I count 96 properties going from 4 to 5 (and thus out of the MegaBonus redemption level).

Here's the same in graphical format.

http://cdn.loyaltylobby.com/wp-content/gallery/february-2012/marriott-properties-moving-down-per-category.jpg

http://cdn.loyaltylobby.com/wp-content/gallery/february-2012/marriott-properties-moving-up-per-category.jpg

Here's the same in graphical format.

http://cdn.loyaltylobby.com/wp-content/gallery/february-2012/marriott-properties-moving-down-per-category.jpg

http://cdn.loyaltylobby.com/wp-content/gallery/february-2012/marriott-properties-moving-up-per-category.jpg

See--we had a net gain of cat 4's for the use of the megabonus certs. :rolleyes:

Wow... Boston Long Wharf going to Cat8? I'm sorry, even if everybody staying there is using points, that hotel is not worth 40k/nt. When I see a Cat8 hotel, it better be cream of the crop in terms of rooms, service, restaurant, and lounges... and while this is a nice hotel, it certainly is not JW level.

Same goes for the multiple other Boston hotels that are going up... Copley Place to cat7? No thanks, won't be staying there anymore.

Also seems that most of the MVCI locations are going up a category. Not like I'd ever use points at those, since its a horrible value considering you have to dish out even more to get a villa.

Overall, more devaluations especially for the Visa Cat5 cert. They just made it so I can't use it at any decent FS hotel in the area now.

WHEN DOES THE BOGO COME BACK, IF EVER?!?!?!?! :mad:

holtju2 thanks for the time it took to take the graphs!

So, excluding those hotel that are moving from Cat 3 to Cat 4, and only focusing on the Cat 4's and Cat 5's of last year, there has been a net loss of 88 Category 4 properties = 96 Cat 4s moving up and only 12 Cat 5s moving down! The results for Categories 5 and 6 are almost as dismal, 72 and 49, respectively!

But, remember everyone that in the interests of space, the y axes for both the graphs are not the same.

Had he kept the scale the same, holtju2 would have had to make the y axis of the graph for those moving up a category 4 times as high!! :eek::eek:

Had he kept the scale the same, holtju2 would have had to make the y axis of the graph for those moving up a category 4 times as high!! :eek::eek:

This was more to illustrate in which categories the hotels went up/down.

This was my point by linking to the SPG list. At least they are honest about raising and lowering properties -- Sorry Socrates, but this time I am not in your camp.


my camp? I didn't state an opinion - I only pointed out that distribution of HOT hotels was vastly different than MAR's and wouldn't make a valid comp....so no worries :D

This was more to illustrate in which categories the hotels went up/down.

I know. Great job.

Marriott: If you really want to soften the blow, why don't you do what SPG did last year and Hilton has been doing for some time now -- permit award nights to count towards attaining/requalification of elite status.

This would at least lessen the fact that many hotels that were usable with the Megabonus and Visa free night certificates can no longer be used at those properties, and the properties that you have elevated in their place are pale imitations of their value/location, etc.

With award nights counting towards elite status, we would at least have some better use of these now greatly devalued e-certificates.

thanks for posting...can't believe some of the changes UP..especially the PHL Airport FS..give me a break, they don't even have WiFi in the rooms:rolleyes::mad::td: Not to mention, it needs a redo....

some of the other changes are nuts too...can't believe it......sheesh....

again, thanks to the concierge team for posting....but can someone please offer a suggestion as why i should remain loyal now that i have LT plat status (though it would be nice if i actually had a current card-it's been many weeks since i requested a new card, but i digress..)

Hmmmm *wood? Hyatt??/ Hilton??? ICH?? whomever has the best rate please.....

Brilliant way to significantly devalue the program, without anyone noticing.

Most significant for those of us with Marriott credit card--many enticing level 5 properties where can can use our free annual one night certificate now become level 6s.

yup I noticed that as well.
This year I enticed all of my fam members(6 of them) to get the Marriott cc just to get that Cat5 voucher. Turns out we will ALL be cancelling our card in a few months... unfortunate... IC card looks excellent however. 80k to boot and an annual free night that can be used at *ANY* (read any hotel in their portfolio including ICs) all over the world. I think I(we, as well as friends and associates) are sold!

yup

IC card looks excellent however. 80k to boot and an annual free night that can be used at *ANY* (read any hotel in their portfolio including ICs) all over the world. I think I(we, as well as friends and associates) are sold!

Hmmmm. Where have I read this before?

You forgot that it is only $49.00/year.

huge devaluation. All of the Cat4 gems are going up in category. I shall list the blows to elites once again:

- removed EEO (no advance notice)
- will soon remove 135k/$1k (almost no advance notice - we had to come up with it)
- removed a/i packages (no advance notice)
- removed US Air FF programs (received advance notice I believe - AA is the big loser here)
- same old promos(while other chains come up with great promos)
- downgraded property(Cat 4 to Cat 5) with no advanced notice(JW MI)
- Huge devaluation now(advance notice but does it matter at this stage)



what is that?

will soon remove 135k/$1k (almost no advance notice - we had to come up with it)
what is that?

It's for elites - use 135K points to get $1k Marriott cheques.

thanks for posting...can't believe some of the changes UP..especially the PHL Airport FS..give me a break, they don't even have WiFi in the rooms:rolleyes::mad::td: Not to mention, it needs a redo....


It's not about a hotels physical conditions, star rankings etc - it's only about the number of points redeemed versus awarded at a hotel and airport hotels award a large number of points so there must be a large number of redemptions at this hotel regardless of condition & amenities

It's for elites - use 135K points to get $1k Marriott cheques.And I must of missed where we were told it is going away? Can someone provide a link to that post? Where did libuser get that information? I don't remember any annoucement posts on this.

Weird that they make the changes half way through Q1, why not just make it all effective 1/1?

This really kills the megabonus promtions for me. I've mostly used the Cat1-4 certs to stay at the fairfield inns at JFK and LGA before an early morning flight. Now I'll either get up earlier to drive right to the airport or maybe going out of BDL more often.

Weird that they make the changes half way through Q1, why not just make it all effective 1/1?

I don't know. FWIW, this is the time of the year they have always done Cat/Tier changes over the past few years.

And I must of missed where we were told it is going away? Can someone provide a link to that post? Where did libuser get that information? I don't remember any announcement posts on this.Perhaps libuser was reliving the panic that occurs at the end of each year about the pending Elite Member offer expiration. It is around until Dec 31, 2012, just like last year when it was around until Dec 31, 2011. We can enjoy the December panic thread again in about 8-9 months; no need to start now. From MR web site (https://www.marriott.com/rewards/moreRewardDetail.mi?marrRewardCode=E195&points=135,000):

Marriott Cheques

Points: 135,000
Code: E195

For Elite Members Only
SAVE 28% on $1,000 in Marriott Cheques

The choice is yours through December 31, 2012.

Perhaps Nacho was reliving the panic that occurs at the end of each year about the pending Elite Member offer expiration.I wondered if that was the issue or if there had been some specific notification that I hadn't seen. (As it is a bit early for the annual "sky is falling" posts.) ;)

It's for elites - use 135K points to get $1k Marriott cheques.

I thought I was clarifying what the 135K to $1K Marriott cheque 'deal' to someone. Not everyone is elite here at FT, and I didn't have a clue of what Marriott cheque is until I discovered FT (among other great info and offers)!

Thanks Flyertalk!

Is it just me or is Marriott only delivering bad news while all the other hotels are giving more good news?
Hyatt and SPG are making good changes.
Club Carlson has even had better promos.

And isn't it overdue for some particular good changes with Marriott. Like I can't get into a Ritz lounge even though I'm Plat...
Just saying... Okay. No big deal, the categories changed but make some good changes for plat members.

I believe the hotel category changes also reflect the increased room rates in major metro areas like Philly and Boston. My office has a lot of trouble getting Govt Rates at those locations even booking two - three months out.

It would be nice to see some enhancements to the MR program instead of the devaluations and disappearing benefits we have seen over the last few months. As others posters have noted, MR just continues to take away benefits and devalue the points or certs we already have.

I am also wondering if will we see an update on the BOGO Certs from the Marriott Concierge anytime soon. But I am afraid this update will only relay more bad news from MR.

Regards,

RIP...

My husband has not stayed in a FS hotel in NYC, DC, Philly, Boston, etc in a year except for a couple of conference rates. They exceed his company's max rate per night. I guess other comapnies are will to pay for it, but his is not. With rates going up the way they have I'm not surprised redemption rates have gone up accordingly.

These changes are painful. Yikes. Marriott is going downhill, while Starwood is looking more and more attractive.

I have also seen room rates rise (quite a bit depending on the week) in many large US cities as of late.

While I could see that as a justification to raise redemption levels by any hotel loyalty program, isn't the flip side of rising room rates that there is now more revenue to bring back perks that were cut during the recession due to lower room rates? (And by that, I mean reopening the lounges at FS properties on the weekends!)

My husband has not stayed in a FS hotel in NYC, DC, Philly, Boston, etc in a year except for a couple of conference rates. They exceed his company's max rate per night. I guess other comapnies are will to pay for it, but his is not. With rates going up the way they have I'm not surprised redemption rates have gone up accordingly.

I'm in the same boat. We always have corp rates, however once we exceed the number of rooms they set aside for us the rate jumps and becomes out of policy. With those corp rates we generally pay a significantly reduced rate based on the market, thus we earn less.

Also with high rates in the Philly/Boston/DC/NYC/Chicago ($250+) you are correct that more people likely redeem points in these markets.

I thought I was clarifying what the 135K to $1K Marriott cheque 'deal' to someone.Your post only prompted me to see the OP that libuser posted. It wasn't your post that I was questioning, I was worried that Marriott had actually come out and "officially" stated that the 135K Cheques award was going to be discontinued. AFAIK, they have always had the "end of year" verbiage since the beginning of that award. But it sounds like nothing has changed and it was just me causing a scene. I'll try to be quite now and not cause any more rubbernecking delays. ;)

Marriott Hong Kong SkyCity is going up to Category 5... that stinks!

Just catching up this thread today and this was the very first thing I search in the PDF file. It was a nice hotel to use up my Free Night cert when I visit HK every x'mas. Usually stay here for 1 or 2 nights before leaving HK. :(

I thought I was clarifying what the 135K to $1K Marriott cheque 'deal' to someone.You were, my bad and also my apologies to you, I meant libuser. Previous post has been updated.

I wouldn't mind seeing a hotel going from a 6 to a 7 or another going from a 7 to an 8 but having have stayed in a number of these specific Hotels over the past year or two, in the ones I have stayed at there has been NO IMPROVEMENTS, room redo's or any major face lifts to warrant a category increase. Now, just because you are in a major market and your rates go up ? You think that warrants a category increase ? Maybe but I can look at allot of these Hotel category increases where the rates have not seen a ton of change in the past year or so ... I look at several and laugh !! I could argue a number of the 6's back to 5's and 7's back to 6's ...

Marriott has stated over and over that amenities and how nice the hotel is has nothing to do with the category. It's all about redemption rates. When a hotel gets a lot of redemptions they jack it up a bit. Not enough redemptions, they dial down. They seem to have some target for redemption percentage and they will fiddle with the category of the hotel until it hits that target. Some hotels seem to bounce around a lot, probably because at a Cat 5 the hotel got a lot, so moved up, then at 6 not so much, move down, etc.

Usually whenever I feel like a hotel is a real steal it goes up. This has happened at the last 4 or 5 hotels we booked a 5 to 7 day stay at!

Glad to see that every single Marriott within 50 miles of Boston is moving up a category.

Yeah...that sucks. The Tremont courtyard was the last cat 5 I could use my MR Visa cert on.

I've mostly used the Cat1-4 certs to stay at the fairfield inns at JFK.

Is the Fairfield Inn at JFK losing level 4 status with this overall devaluation?

Most of the properties that I frquent are raised up in CAT, hence costs more points for redemption. Meantime, I see Cat1-4 eCerts are being devalued as many of my fav CAT4 will become CAT5.
In 2012, I see more nights will be shifted to SPG.

These changes are painful. Yikes. Marriott is going downhill, while Starwood is looking more and more attractive.

Agreed. After being a bit disappointed about Marriott's decline, I walked by the Sheraton in Bangkok today and I had to admit, I had a little bit of the "grass is greener" come over me. Hyatt and SPG will win me over I think.

Again, these changes don't bother me all that much, but lack of suite upgrades and such... and again, no club lounge at the Ritz!? Is it not Marriott owned?

Thanks for the heads up, the notice is appreciated as I see one holiday I was pondering will become cheaper (Bucharest), and my upcoming trip to South Korea now needs to be finalised this weekend. A lot of hotels I recognise there moving up into Category 7... its getting towards a 35k redemption being the standard rather than 30k methinks.

You can see how much the hotel industry is booming at the moment with the effective 12% uplift.

OK, one piece of barely good news. Not all Category 4 properties in Downtown Philly and New Orleans have been eliminated.

Although the Courtyard Philly, will be gone, the Residence Inn next door will still stay as a Cat 4 -- this year.

In addition, the C/Y New Orleans Convention Center, the Springhill Suites Downtown and the R/I Downtown all appear to remain as Cat 4 properties.

It is rather ironic that the Atlanta Marriott Marquis moves up a category when Host Hotels (owner of the hotel and once called Host Marriott and a part of the chain?!) says Atlanta was the only major US hotel market to go south last year in both RevPar and Occupancy. The article appeared two or three days ago in USA Today...

remember that might be Host's experience but might not be market wide

The same article also said that Host owns multiple properties in Atlanta, including a Westin, the Grand Hyatt the Four Seasons, the Ritz Carlton and multiple Marriotts. All those properties combined at least indicate trends for the entire market IMHO.

The same article also said that Host owns multiple properties in Atlanta, including a Westin, the Grand Hyatt the Four Seasons, the Ritz Carlton and multiple Marriotts. All those properties combined at least indicate trends for the entire market IMHO.

I can assure you Host's distribution in the market is not representative of the MSA, Host tends to like larger urban core hotels, Atlanta is a big market with a lot of submarkets

Looks like they've hired Jeff Smisek from UA to be their consultant on downgrading value and benefits for us through the upgrading of category levels for hotels! We can now call it Marriott Mileage Plus!

OK, one piece of barely good news. Not all Category 4 properties in Downtown Philly and New Orleans have been eliminated.



In addition, the C/Y New Orleans Convention Center and the R/I downtown appear to remain as Cat 4 properties.

The New Orleans Springhill downtown also remains a cat 4.

In fact, with the six full service hotels all becoming cat 6, the CY Downtown will be the only cat 5 in New Orleans.

The New Orleans Springhill downtown also remains a cat 4.

In fact, with the six full service hotels all becoming cat 6, the CY Downtown will be the only cat 5 in New Orleans.

Thanks, Swag, I'll amend my post above.

It's not about a hotels physical conditions, star rankings etc - it's only about the number of points redeemed versus awarded at a hotel and airport hotels award a large number of points so there must be a large number of redemptions at this hotel regardless of condition & amenities

true..forgot that detail.....perhaps people will see the error of their redemption ways!:D

It looks like all cat 5 Hawai'i hotels are going up to 6, and the CY in Kapa'a goes cat. 4 to 5. Isn't that the same property which couldn't make it as a Hilton, and prior to that, as a Radisson?

So only the CY Waikiki, the Waikoloa and the old Kamehameha hotel aren't going up in category, correct?

It looks like all cat 5 Hawai'i hotels are going up to 6, and the CY in Kapa'a goes cat. 4 to 5. Isn't that the same property which couldn't make it as a Hilton, and prior to that, as a Radisson?

No, the hotel you're thinking of is in Lihue, closer to the airport.

It looks like all cat 5 Hawai'i hotels are going up to 6, and the CY in Kapa'a goes cat. 4 to 5. Isn't that the same property which couldn't make it as a Hilton, and prior to that, as a Radisson?

So only the CY Waikiki, the Waikoloa and the old Kamehameha hotel aren't going up in category, correct?


the CY Waikiki will be moved up to Cat 5.

It looks like all cat 5 Hawai'i hotels are going up to 6, and the CY in Kapa'a goes cat. 4 to 5. Isn't that the same property which couldn't make it as a Hilton, and prior to that, as a Radisson?

So only the CY Waikiki, the Waikoloa and the old Kamehameha hotel aren't going up in category, correct?

I believe the CY Waikiki is going up to a 5.

However, there is a new CY at OGG that is a Cat 4.

As for the CY in Kauai, I believe that Honu is correct. It was a Hilton or Hampton? prior to its incarnation as a Marriott family property and it is midway between the aiport and the Na Pali coast where the St. Regis is, I believe. It is not where the Kauai Marriott nor where the Vacation properties are near the Hyatt.

I disagree. If 3% go down and 15% go up then it's a further devaluation of our Marriott Pesos in my opinion. Not a big deal but I do think it is a clear devaluation. You have less options with the same number of points.

. . . and if you remove the Egypt Marriotts it's even worse. No one is going there anyway.

Looks like they've hired Jeff Smisek from UA to be their consultant on downgrading value and benefits for us through the upgrading of category levels for hotels! We can now call it Marriott Mileage Plus!

:D :D :D

:D :D :D

I've met Jeff a few times (years ago in Houston)...seems like a very nice guy but then I haven't been paying attention to CO/UA lately (but I did get my Silver packet today :))

Well....That is Murphy's Law for me....

All my hotels that I frequent the most went up in CAT....JW HKG, SIN, SYD Circular Quay just to name a few....oh well...

Yikes, that's a lot of 4 -> 5's. I really liked those Cat 4 certs too.

Anyway, a couple of questions.

1) Can I make a reservation for a future stay at the lower rate even if I don't have enough points yet? (Looking at a big award stay later this year, but still a few points shy.)

2) Can I make a reservation for a future stay at the lower category if I don't have the cert yet? (I want to use my Visa cert sometime in August at a Cat 5 that is turning into a Cat 6, but I won't get the cert deposited into my account until June.)

Did you ever find out the answer to question #2? I have a Chase Cat 1-5 certificate coming in April which I was planning on using at the Renaissance New Orleans hotel in August (which is going up to a Cat 6 from a Cat 5). Wondering if I could book the reservation now using points then switch it to the Cat 5 certificate after? Or would that not be possible given the new Cat 6 status? Wondering if I should pursue this with Marriott or see if Chase could possibly "advance" me the certificate before my renewal date.

yes you can

yes you can

How certain are you? I'm thinking about using the points to book the nights and then put in the certs after Megabonus.

100% certain. Have done it before many times. cat4s are like points. As long as they fall within the category hotel they can be subbed for points.

100% certain. Have done it before many times. cat4s are like points. As long as they fall within the category hotel they can be subbed for points.

You've done it when there was a change in category too? I'm asking this because if I book it now, it will be 25,000 points (Cat 5 property). At the time I get the Chase certificate in April the same hotel will be a Cat 6 property (30,000 points). So I can make the reservation as a Cat 5 now and then sub the certificate when I get it even though the certificate is a Cat 5 certificate and the hotel will at that time be a Cat 6 property?

You've done it when there was a change in category too? I'm asking this because if I book it now, it will be 25,000 points (Cat 5 property). At the time I get the Chase certificate in April the same hotel will be a Cat 6 property (30,000 points). So I can make the reservation as a Cat 5 now and then sub the certificate when I get it even though the certificate is a Cat 5 certificate and the hotel will at that time be a Cat 6 property?

You should be able to switch to the Cert without a problem, however it will depend on who you get on the reservations line. Just tell them you want to use the Cert instead of points and they should make the switch no problem.

For any award stay where a hotel is moving up a Category, my advice is regardless of how you are paying for an awards stay (Cert or Points), check your MR account activity after your stay. I had a problem in VA Beach last year when I tried to use the Visa Category 1-5 cert at a hotel that recently moved to a Cat 6. The hotel cancelled my reservation using the Cert, then rebooked using points the day of my stay. 30K points were deducted from my MR account for the one night stay, the Cert was not redeposited as it had expired three days after my stay. A call to MR straightened it out, but only after I talked to a supervisor. The original call taker kept insisting the I had made the reservation for points the day of my stay!

Regards,

RIP...

I just want to add another point to OU812's experience. Marriott has a record of every reservation and who made changes to it. It is not hard to find out that the hotel cancelled the original reservation.

You are allowed to call in and make an award reservation without the points or certificate. You only need to have the points/certificate a week before your arrival. For properties that are going up in award category, the date of the reservation determines the amount of points required, not when you attach a certificate to the award reservation (redeeming points transfers an electronic certificate to the hotel).

You've done it when there was a change in category too? I'm asking this because if I book it now, it will be 25,000 points (Cat 5 property). At the time I get the Chase certificate in April the same hotel will be a Cat 6 property (30,000 points). So I can make the reservation as a Cat 5 now and then sub the certificate when I get it even though the certificate is a Cat 5 certificate and the hotel will at that time be a Cat 6 property?

if you make a reservation today and a hotel is category X but at check-in the hotel is category Y you'll still be charged the number of points for a category X stay

I just want to add another point to OU812's experience. Marriott has a record of every reservation and who made changes to it. It is not hard to find out that the hotel cancelled the original reservation.

You are allowed to call in and make an award reservation without the points or certificate. You only need to have the points/certificate a week before your arrival. For properties that are going up in award category, the date of the reservation determines the amount of points required, not when you attach a certificate to the award reservation (redeeming points transfers an electronic certificate to the hotel).

just as an FYI - the hotels have no incentive to cancel a reservation and make a new one after their category changed...they receive the same amount of $$$ regardless of their category/number of points used to stay, when you see something as you describe it's a honest mistake on the hotel's part

As others have already mentioned, this is a huge devaluation for the certs earned via MegaBonus and the Visa Card. Category 4 hotels in any major US city was naturally going to be redeemed at high levels with the promo. Just take a look at how many hotels with "Downtown" in their name moved down a level (only 1, the Courtyard Edmonton Downtown), versus the number that went up a category (44 hotels) and it pretty much sums up the story.

Wondering if I could book the reservation now using points then switch it to the Cat 5 certificate after?

Just to double check, I did write to Marriott Rewards, and they surprisingly answered very quickly, and confirmed that I could do just that:

Dear Kevin,

Thank you for contacting Marriott Rewards.

If the reservation was booked before the category change, the category five certificate will be honored.

Does anyone have any experience with booking multiple certificates? For instance, if I book 4 rewards nights and thus get the 5th one free, can I then replace with just 4 certs and still get the 5th night free?

For instance, if I book 4 rewards nights and thus get the 5th one free, can I then replace with just 4 certs and still get the 5th night free?Nope. The only time you will get the 5th night free is if you order the appropriate 5 night award.

just as an FYI - the hotels have no incentive to cancel a reservation and make a new one after their category changed...they receive the same amount of $$$ regardless of their category/number of points used to stay, when you see something as you describe it's a honest mistake on the hotel's part

I have no doubt that is true, but OU812 was having problems getting the Marriott Rewards agent to undo the mistake. It is for the benefit of others that I made the comment so others can fix any mistakes that occur.

I have no doubt that is true, but OU812 was having problems getting the Marriott Rewards agent to undo the mistake. It is for the benefit of others that I made the comment so others can fix any mistakes that occur.

I wasn't trying to minimize your point - only point out the conspiracy isn't out there (it was only a matter of time before someone suggested it)

Just catching up this thread today and this was the very first thing I search in the PDF file. It was a nice hotel to use up my Free Night cert when I visit HK every x'mas. Usually stay here for 1 or 2 nights before leaving HK. :(

Now one has to go all the way to sai wan (or cross the border to Shenzhen) to use that Cat 4 cert in HK. :(

Now one has to go all the way to sai wan (or cross the border to Shenzhen) to use that Cat 4 cert in HK. :(

Yeah if you can get an award night there...... I just checked and there are a total of 5 days available for the whole Dec and early Jan. :td:

All five cat 5 full service properties in downtown New Orleans move to cat 6. That one hurts.

I do thank you for releasing this list in advance.

yea and the only one that was a 4 goes to a 5 which kills my cert. looks like i will not be renewing my chase card.

yea and the only one that was a 4 goes to a 5 which kills my cert. looks like i will not be renewing my chase card.

When you renew the Chase card (pay the annual fee) you get a certificate for a free category 1 - 5 room, so you're still covered. It's the first certificate (when you sign up for the card) that's limited to category 1 - 4 (probably because the annual fee is waived).

When you renew the Chase card (pay the annual fee) you get a certificate for a free category 1 - 5 room, so you're still covered. It's the first certificate (when you sign up for the card) that's limited to category 1 - 4 (probably because the annual fee is waived).If I'm not mistaken, the renewal certs (for cat 5) are also good for a full year, not just 6 months.

If I'm not mistaken, the renewal certs (for cat 5) are also good for a full year, not just 6 months.The ones I have been receiving for the last few years have only been valid for 6 months.

The ones I have been receiving for the last few years have only been valid for 6 months.

Me too. 6 months.

I believe the chase Premier card gets you the cat 5 cert (good for 6 months.) There is a Chase Marriott card one level down that provides a Cat 4 cert even after year one.

Now one has to go all the way to sai wan (or cross the border to Shenzhen) to use that Cat 4 cert in HK. :(

I believe that Courtyard Hong Kong remains a Cat 4

I believe that Courtyard Hong Kong remains a Cat 4

Oops - missed the Sai Wan reference - which is of course, where Courtyard HK is located at.

I believe that Courtyard Hong Kong remains a Cat 4

Yes for this year. I'm sure it will be Cat 5 next year. I can't even get book an award night for this Dec. :td:

Not listed as changing (and I have NO problem booking December nights at Cat 4 "pricing":

Charlotte Marriott City Center 4 5
Courtyard Anchorage Airport 4 5
Courtyard Austin Downtown/Convention Center 4 5
Courtyard Boston Cambridge 4 5
Courtyard Boston-South Boston 4 5
Courtyard Charleston Mt. Pleasant 4 5
Courtyard Charlottesville - University Medical Center 4 5
Courtyard Columbus Easton 4 5
Courtyard Gulf Shores Craft Farms 4 5
Courtyard Hadley Amherst 4 5
Courtyard Ithaca 4 5
Courtyard Kauai Kapa'a 4 5
Courtyard Key Largo 4 5
Courtyard Nashville Downtown 4 5
Courtyard Nashville Vanderbilt/West End 4 5
Courtyard New Orleans Downtown Near the French Quarter 4 5
Courtyard Norwich 4 5
Courtyard Page at Lake Powell 4 5
Courtyard Paris Defense West - ColombesYes for this year. I'm sure it will be Cat 5 next year. I can't even get book an award night for this Dec. :td:

Not listed as changing (and I have NO problem booking December nights at Cat 4 "pricing":

Yes I can book the rooms again at CY HK (it wasn't available a couple of days ago), but how do you know that CY HK won't be Cat 5 March 2013 at the category change next year?

Yes I can book the rooms again at CY HK (it wasn't available a couple of days ago), but how do you know that CY HK won't be Cat 5 March 2013 at the category change next year?

Keep talking about it, people flock to it to redeem and according to their head scratching formula, it WILL move up! :p

if Marriott keeps to it's latest notices, they'll provide such catagory increase notices in mid-February of 2013 allowing you until mid-March 2013 to make Cat 4 reservations throughout the year

..............but how do you know that CY HK won't be Cat 5 March 2013 at the category change next year?

Ok, new question. Looking to book an award stay at a property that is moving up a category. Not sure at this point, but will either be 2 or 3 nights. If I book 3 now, and try to drop a night after 3/15 - will that cause a re-pricing to the higher rate?

Ok, new question. Looking to book an award stay at a property that is moving up a category. Not sure at this point, but will either be 2 or 3 nights. If I book 3 now, and try to drop a night after 3/15 - will that cause a re-pricing to the higher rate?

Easiest solution is to book 2 nights under one reservation and the third night as a separate reservation.

Easiest solution is to book 2 nights under one reservation and the third night as a separate reservation.

Duh, I'm an idiot. Thanks.

Keep talking about it, people flock to it to redeem and according to their head scratching formula, it WILL move up! :p

The hotel has been discussed a lot at the 'best cat 4 hotel' thread ;)

Also why would people suddenly flock to somewhere unplanned just because they 'suspect' a hotel would move up 1 cat?

I believe the CY Waikiki is going up to a 5.

However, there is a new CY at OGG that is a Cat 4.

As for the CY in Kauai, I believe that Honu is correct. It was a Hilton or Hampton? prior to its incarnation as a Marriott family property and it is midway between the aiport and the Na Pali coast where the St. Regis is, I believe. It is not where the Kauai Marriott nor where the Vacation properties are near the Hyatt.

Back to this thread. If it's the one I think of, the current CY in Kapa'a was a Hilton for probably less than 2 yrs. Before that it was a Radisson, and before then it was an independent property which showed up a lot in cheapo flight-hotel packages. Not the greatest beach in Kaua'i, and it gets pretty windy there, but hopefully they did a good renovation.

Does anyone know when the CY OGG will be available? I checked the web site as far as next January, but there was no mention of it. To be fair, Kahului is really not where you want to be when you're on holiday on Maui. However, a nice airport hotel instead of the two older ones that are there now (Maui Seaside and Maui Beach) is a nice option if you have an early am flight.

Just a reminder to book your stays before the Category changes. I think these will kick in at midnight tonight. So act quick!

Regards,

RIP...

Thanks, just did a few. Vacation clubs in MCO a double whammy since most are going 6 to 7 and most require a 10k or 15k PER NIGHT upgrade on top of the category creep...

No penalty to cancel! Might as well book em up.

Just a reminder to book your stays before the Category changes. I think these will kick in at midnight tonight. So act quick!

Regards,

RIP...

Just tried to book at 11PM and the increase has already kicked in :mad:

Again, these changes will go in to effect starting Thursday, March 15, 2012 so any reservations made prior to March 15 will be honored at the current category. If you have an existing redemption reservation at a hotel that is decreasing in category, you may call Marriott Rewards® Customer Support at 801-468-4000 to adjust the reservation after March 15.

Thanks and safe travels!
Andy & the Marriott Rewards team

I just made a couple of reservations tonight being Wednesday March 14th and the points have already increased.

hmm
Ren TA is still Cat5 after midnite. Some hotels still show the old Cats.

I just did JR Marriott Guanacoste and Courtyard SF Downtown, got the old points (on the phone). Email shows right points, and it did when I made the reservation, 10 minutes later, it shows the new points. Luckily the email is dated 3/14.

It's 10:22 Pacific, 1:22 AM eastern

if you make a reservation today and a hotel is category X but at check-in the hotel is category Y you'll still be charged the number of points for a category X stay

This is NOT true! I have a reservation at the Ko Olina Beach Club that I made a long time ago. And when I went in and looked at the reservation today, it has been changed to show the new category thus needing more points.

The only thing I can think of is that I didn't actually "buy" the certs yet with the points since I didn't have enough points yet for the whole reservation.

This sucks because now I won't have enough points before the trip and we just bought our airline tickets. I am going to have to switch to the Marriott Waikiki for the whole trip. :-(

And the Cat 4 certs I was planning on using at the CY Waikiki from a megabonus promo that I will get from a trip next week are useless.

Maggie

I noticed something weird on my reservation at Ko Olina also (I booked the JW, not sure if you booked that one or the beach club). I booked it and already had the 180k points deducted, but when I look at the reservation detail, it shows total points for stay 210k. I hope that doesn't mean I will need more points before i go - I am planning to call Marriott later so I will post what I find out.

This is NOT true! I have a reservation at the Ko Olina Beach Club that I made a long time ago. And when I went in and looked at the reservation today, it has been changed to show the new category thus needing more points.

The only thing I can think of is that I didn't actually "buy" the certs yet with the points since I didn't have enough points yet for the whole reservation.

This sucks because now I won't have enough points before the trip and we just bought our airline tickets. I am going to have to switch to the Marriott Waikiki for the whole trip. :-(

And the Cat 4 certs I was planning on using at the CY Waikiki from a megabonus promo that I will get from a trip next week are useless.

Maggie

Maggie,

It actually is true, let me explain what happens - the hotel pulls the correct number of points based upon their category on they date you check-in, Marriott Rewards will add the difference in point value to your acccount so the actual number of points you spent are based upon the hotels category on date of reservation

Hope this helps clear things up

Soc

I noticed something weird on my reservation at Ko Olina also (I booked the JW, not sure if you booked that one or the beach club). I booked it and already had the 180k points deducted, but when I look at the reservation detail, it shows total points for stay 210k. I hope that doesn't mean I will need more points before i go - I am planning to call Marriott later so I will post what I find out.

Marriott Rewards will "pay" the point difference

Marriott Rewards will "pay" the point difference

Thanks for clearing that up!

I made a booking on the 15th while the hotel still accepted the old system (Cat. 6) even though on the website it showed Cat. 7. The points were already deducted from my account based on Cat.6 and the confirmation email also showed the same. Will I have problem (being charged for more points) when I check in next month? Thanks.

WJ

So, what will happen when I go to buy the cert in a couple weeks? Will it be the old structure or the new structure? I had the reservation (but not the cert) before the change date.

Thanks!

Maggie

When you have the points call MR and they will order the right cert. Normally I do it online, but in this case I would call.

I noticed something weird on my reservation at Ko Olina also (I booked the JW, not sure if you booked that one or the beach club). I booked it and already had the 180k points deducted, but when I look at the reservation detail, it shows total points for stay 210k. I hope that doesn't mean I will need more points before i go - I am planning to call Marriott later so I will post what I find out.

Maggie,

It actually is true, let me explain what happens - the hotel pulls the correct number of points based upon their category on they date you check-in, Marriott Rewards will add the difference in point value to your acccount so the actual number of points you spent are based upon the hotels category on date of reservation

Hope this helps clear things up

Soc

Marriott Rewards will "pay" the point difference

:confused:

This same situation happened to me last year. I booked the Aruba Stellaris as a cat 7 right before it became a cat 8. The correct 140,000 points were pulled from my account when it booked. A few weeks later the reservation showed as 160,000 points but no additional points were pulled from my account.

Of course, by the time I checked in it had dropped back to a cat 7 so this might have made a difference at check-in.

So, what will happen when I go to buy the cert in a couple weeks? Will it be the old structure or the new structure? I had the reservation (but not the cert) before the change date.

Thanks!

Maggie
If you have an issue call MR - they be sure you are taken care of

[L]et me explain what happens - the hotel pulls the correct number of points based upon their category on they date you check-in, Marriott Rewards will add the difference in point value to your acccount so the actual number of points you spent are based upon the hotels category on date of reservation

socrates, I realize you may just be summarizing the end result, but do the properties actually "pull" the points? If so, what do they do with them?

A couple years back I was talking with someone who should know at one of the Marriott full service hotels and he said that Marriott itself is the one that deducts the points from an individual's account, the property itself does not "collect" or see the points. Rather, after the property reports you consumed the stay, Marriott pays (or maybe credits) the property a monetary amount for the night consumed.

If that's the case, it makes sense that Marriott would be able to provide the "fix" since it's essentially just a bookkeeping entry done at their level.

socrates, I realize you may just be summarizing the end result, but do the properties actually "pull" the points? If so, what do they do with them?

A couple years back I was talking with someone who should know at one of the Marriott full service hotels and he said that Marriott itself is the one that deducts the points from an individual's account, the property itself does not "collect" or see the points. Rather, after the property reports you consumed the stay, Marriott pays (or maybe credits) the property a monetary amount for the night consumed.

If that's the case, it makes sense that Marriott would be able to provide the "fix" since it's essentially just a bookkeeping entry done at their level.
I am summarizing but while it is typically the guests that pull/redeem the points a hotel can contact MR on behalf of the guest as well (additionally hotels can see your available certs already issued etc) so it's just easier for MR to deposit additional points into the guests account so the correct number of points can be redeemed for the stay

kind of stinks that i need to change a redemption ressie...made in JANUARY...BACK to the date I booked originally (same weekend..booked Sat changed to fri-now need to change BACK to sat......and i don't want to foul it up online so i called..and since MR is closed, i have to wait til monday...

VERY frustrating....*sigh*


i would love to shift more of my (somewhat limited) business away from marriott..but they have more properties and better rates when i need to travel....and since it's all on my dime....

This clearly degrades the value of the annual free night that comes along with the Marriott Premier credit card. Some of the hotels that one could have stayed at in the past using the free night cert. would no longer be possibilities.

Agreed. I have to go out of my way to find a use for a cat 1-4 cert.

Was March 15, 2012 supposed to be the only date that categories change? The Residence Inn Edinburgh is now (July 1) showing as category 5, but it was category 4 just a few days ago. It was not on the list.

Was March 15, 2012 supposed to be the only date that categories change? The Residence Inn Edinburgh is now (July 1) showing as category 5, but it was category 4 just a few days ago. It was not on the list.

Starwood has been quietly changing (http://loyaltylobby.com/2012/05/04/starwood-quietly-changing-award-categories-midyear/) some hotel categories mid year. Has Marriott now done the same as well?

Was March 15, 2012 supposed to be the only date that categories change? The Residence Inn Edinburgh is now (July 1) showing as category 5, but it was category 4 just a few days ago. It was not on the list.

This hotel never seems to have award nights available. Even though paid rooms are available. They are definately doing something against the Marriott rules on award.

This hotel never seems to have award nights available. Even though paid rooms are available. They are definately doing something against the Marriott rules on award.

Agreed their availability is poor and they're probably trying to keep revenue stays for the festival. But I did manage book a points stay under category 4 after the festival.

This hotel never seems to have award nights available. Even though paid rooms are available. They are definately doing something against the Marriott rules on award.

I was able to book 2 weekday nights there in early June for late July.

Starwood has been quietly changing (http://loyaltylobby.com/2012/05/04/starwood-quietly-changing-award-categories-midyear/) some hotel categories mid year. Has Marriott now done the same as well?

I don't know that they do it a lot, but they definitely do. JW Grand Rapids MI switched from a Cat 4 to Cat 5 last November with no notice. I found out about it from FT.

Cheers.

Hyatt also had one property go up a category, the Hyatt House in Carlsbad, in the middle of 2012.

I will definitely dump my Marriott credit card when my year is up