Oceania (Australia, New Zealand & the South Pacific) - Queensland Photo Speed Ticker for USA Resident.

Hello,

Got back from Australia at the end of January. Just got a photo speeding ticked from Cairns, Sheridan Street, right near where the higway changes with a picture of the car for a 73km/h in a 60 km zone, $200 fine.

Being a bloody minded individual, with the picture in hand I went to Google Street view. Thanks to the lane markings and the mountain in the background, I found where the camera was set up. As I was going down the road virtually in Google, I also noticed the 60km/h speed limit sign is 350 meters in front of where the camera was set up. So it appears I in fact was slowing down from the 80kph highway, but I had not slowed down enough by the time I got to the radar setup. Must be a great money maker for them.

Is the rental car company on the hook if I don't pay?. I suppose the only way QLD could ever collect on me would be if I went back to Australia for some sort of permanent to semi-permanent stretch.

I noticed in New South Wales there is a Penalty Review Board you can appeal to. Is there such a facility in Queensland?

Welcome to FT. Hope you enjoyed Aussie

As the rental car almost certainly has your credit card number they will debit the card and charge you an administration fee

Just pay up, before the rental car company charges you a fee

Another thread on the same topic: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/australia-new-zealand-south-pacific/598410-australian-speeding-fines-british-citizen.html

Hello,

Got back from Australia at the end of January. Just got a photo speeding ticked from Cairns, Sheridan Street, right near where the higway changes with a picture of the car for a 73km/h in a 60 km zone, $200 fine.

Being a bloody minded individual, with the picture in hand I went to Google Street view. Thanks to the lane markings and the mountain in the background, I found where the camera was set up. As I was going down the road virtually in Google, I also noticed the 60km/h speed limit sign is 350 meters in front of where the camera was set up. So it appears I in fact was slowing down from the 80kph highway, but I had not slowed down enough by the time I got to the radar setup. Must be a great money maker for them.

Is the rental car company on the hook if I don't pay?. I suppose the only way QLD could ever collect on me would be if I went back to Australia for some sort of permanent to semi-permanent stretch.

I noticed in New South Wales there is a Penalty Review Board you can appeal to. Is there such a facility in Queensland?

Whether you agree with photo radar or not, you are supposed to slow down to speed before the speed limit sign, not after it. You were well over the limit so I'd suggest you suck it up and pay the fine.

I'd write them a letter and plead ignorance. It's a cynical cash grab by the state government anyway.

Whether you agree with photo radar or not, you are supposed to slow down to speed before the speed limit sign, not after it. You were well over the limit so I'd suggest you suck it up and pay the fine.

Are there signs that say "reduce speed ahead" or something similar ?

I noticed in New South Wales there is a Penalty Review Board you can appeal to. Is there such a facility in Queensland?

http://www.police.qld.gov.au/programs/roadSafety/infringement.htm

Though given the facts you state (i.e. you were speeding), a letter is probably a waste of postage.

Are there signs that say "reduce speed ahead" or something similar ?

In many places there are (especially with shifts down from 80kph or higher) but in any case, the sign is indicating the speed limit for the stretch of road that follows the sign. Given that you can normally see the sign at a reasonable distance, it is reasonable to assume that you have enough time to hit the brakes and get yourself down to speed. If you are still speeding 300 or 400m after the sign, you haven't made a real attempt to slow down.

...As the rental car almost certainly has your credit card number they will debit the card and charge you an administration fee

Just pay up, before the rental car company charges you a fee

...The procedue and law varies by state, and I don't know QLD law. In VIC and NSW the owner of the car is responsible for the fine, unless they provide the name and address of the driver to the state. Then the driver is billed; there is no charge to your credit card by the rental company. QLD might charge, and if they do there is typically $100 or so administration fee added to the fine. Not paying does cause some rental companies to refuse to rent to you in the future, so it can be a calculated risk. Not sure if the hassle is worth the $200.

Seems to be a recurring theme on FT: foreigner visits Australia, breaks the law then signs up to FT asking for tips how to avoid the penalty.

Personally I would just put my big boy pants on, pay up and learn not to make the same mistake again next time.

Seems to be a recurring theme on FT: foreigner visits Australia, breaks the law then signs up to FT asking for tips how to avoid the penalty.

Personally I would just put my big boy pants on, pay up and learn not to make the same mistake again next time.

Maybe if we put our big boy pants on we can get some sensible traffic laws. Instead of the current golden goose system that state governments treat speeding offences as.

Maybe if we put our big boy pants on we can get some sensible traffic laws. Instead of the current golden goose system that state governments treat speeding offences as. As someone who works in rescue roles, speed limits are mostly sensible, and are well sign-posted (at least in NSW). In NSW, if you get donw, then you deserve to get done (and I work and live in the Blue Mountains, wiere the speed limits change with such regularity that most people change their underwear more frequently).

Nothing wrong with it though, you need to look for such things as a driver, if you miss the new speed limit sign, then you aren't concentrating enough.

Dave
(obtained licence in 1987, in 2012 I have not lost a single point)

As the rental car almost certainly has your credit card number they will debit the card and charge you an administration fee

Just pay up, before the rental car company charges you a fee

Another thread on the same topic: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/australia-new-zealand-south-pacific/598410-australian-speeding-fines-british-citizen.html

Good advice. ^ We once got ticketed in Sweden for inadvertently parking over the edge of a bus zone. :o

We mentioned it when returning the rental car a few minutes later (wouldn't you know this happened at the end of a four-day rental?). The rep was sympathetic and said he would informally "appeal" but we still ended up paying the $75 ticket.

We also got caught up in that automated toll road when driving out of MEL a couple of years ago, but a fellow FTer, itsalongwaydown, paid the toll out of his account and we reimbursed him; otherwise, it would have gotten expensive had it come back to us with fees added by the rental car company on top of the penalties.

For a bit of Commonwealth perspective, one of the the major election issues in the 2001 election in the Canadian province of British Columbia was the photo radar vans (http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/09/photo-radar-revolt-spreads-to-canada/) the government of the day had introduced.

It had been promised that the vans would not be parked in tricky places such as the bottom of hills or right at speed-limit changes, yet they were, and people noticed, and eventually a government fell. The party promising to cancel them won 77 of 79 seats. Admittedly there were other factors in play as well.

In the meantime, OP, I agree the best advice is simply to pay the fine.

As someone who works in rescue roles, speed limits are mostly sensible, and are well sign-posted (at least in NSW). In NSW, if you get donw, then you deserve to get done (and I work and live in the Blue Mountains, wiere the speed limits change with such regularity that most people change their underwear more frequently).

Nothing wrong with it though, you need to look for such things as a driver, if you miss the new speed limit sign, then you aren't concentrating enough.

Dave
(obtained licence in 1987, in 2012 I have not lost a single point)

Outside of the US, Australians are probably the worst drivers I have encountered. They fall into two camps; those who think anything other than the signposted speed limit would be utterly dangerous, and those who think the posted speed limits are in MPH. Both are dangerous. I'm not interested in trying to set land speed records but there are roads where a modern car can certainly travel at a higher speed than 110 without being a menace. The speed limits are so inconsistent, why is the Harbour Bridge (with its undivided carriageway) 80km/h but the Anzac Bridge (which has concrete down the middle) 60km/h?

The first thing that should be fixed is the cereal box licensing process. I agree with you that if you get done then you probably deserve it in NSW because speed cameras have more announcements than a Royal visit. But in say, Victoria, they ping you for being 1-2km/h over the limit and speed cameras aren't signposted. To me, that seems like nothing more than revenue raising.

Sorry didn't mean to rant. :)

... But in say, Victoria, they ping you for being 1-2km/h over the limit and speed cameras aren't signposted. To me, that seems like nothing more than revenue raising.

Sorry didn't mean to rant. :)

Wow ... 1-2km / h over results in a ticket ?

Wow ... 1-2km / h over results in a ticket ?Note true - the "informant" (police) would be laughed out of court if a driver decided to challenge such an infringement.

3Kmh is taken off the recorded speed to arrive at an "alleged" speed.

This is due to the limits of the mandated accuracy of a vehicle's speedometer.

Note true - the "informant" (police) would be laughed out of court if a driver decided to challenge such an infringement.

3Kmh is taken off the recorded speed to arrive at an "alleged" speed.

This is due to the limits of the mandated accuracy of a vehicle's speedometer.

The tolerance on fixed speed cameras in Victoria is 2 km/h. For mobile it is 3 km/h or 3%.

Someone caught doing 65km/h (as the Vic police minister was (http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/victorias-police-minister-caught-speeding-20110131-1a9zv.html)) will get a fine for travelling at an "alleged" speed of 63 km/h. Punitive speeding laws like that tell me the government either sees a fat cash cow that it can milk or that, as a nation, we are so completely unable to operate a motor vehicle safely that we need the government to watch us like a hawk, lest we hurt ourselves.

Either way it's pathetic.

The tolerance on fixed speed cameras in Victoria is 2 km/h. For mobile it is 3 km/h or 3%.

Someone caught doing 65km/h (as the Vic police minister was (http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/victorias-police-minister-caught-speeding-20110131-1a9zv.html)) will get a fine for travelling at an "alleged" speed of 63 km/h. Punitive speeding laws like that tell me the government either sees a fat cash cow that it can milk or that, as a nation, we are so completely unable to operate a motor vehicle safely that we need the government to watch us like a hawk, lest we hurt ourselves.

Either way it's pathetic.

Travel in excess of the limit, wrap yourself around a light pole and die or end up a vegetable for the rest of your life, fine, go for it, I really couldn't care, just make sure you're self-funded.

Take a bystander with you, as often happens, then that's a different matter. It's not just "ourselves" that get hurt, is it.

None of which relates, of course, to foreigners who come to Australia, knowingly break the law then whine when they get caught - ie the premise of this thread.

Travel in excess of the limit, wrap yourself around a light pole and die or end up a vegetable for the rest of your life, fine, go for it, I really couldn't care, just make sure you're self-funded.

Take a bystander with you, as often happens, then that's a different matter. It's not just "ourselves" that get hurt, is it.

There's a difference between speeding and dangerous driving. @:-)

Despite our draconian speeding laws we don't have a fantastic road safety record.

I don't understand the fascination with speed limits that we have in this country. But I feel so much safer knowing all those reckless hoons are getting their comeuppance for doing 65 in a 60 zone, or 115 in a 110 zone.

I also have been done a couple of times over the years on that same road. I had to pay up. So should you. Did you notice the makeshift crosses on the side of the road? Kids and adults on bikes, and pedestrians, have been killed by speeding drivers along that highway. Pay up and take it as a lesson.

As someone who works in rescue roles, speed limits are mostly sensible, and are well sign-posted (at least in NSW). In NSW, if you get donw, then you deserve to get done (and I work and live in the Blue Mountains, wiere the speed limits change with such regularity that most people change their underwear more frequently).

Nothing wrong with it though, you need to look for such things as a driver, if you miss the new speed limit sign, then you aren't concentrating enough.

Dave
(obtained licence in 1987, in 2012 I have not lost a single point)
I'm not a fan of the constant changes in speed limit, of which – as you say – the main road over the Blue Mountains is an egregious example, but it's common in Australia and also in the UK. It seems to me it has two problems:

It encourages the idea that the speed limit is the speed at which one ought to be travelling (i.e. no less, I mean – I'm not talking about people who want to exceed the limit), whereas drivers ought to be encouraged to use their judgement and, if necessary, travel at a lower speed, depending on road and weather conditions, amount of traffic, and so on. Because we now have a situation where the speed limit is reduced almost every time there's a slightly tricky bend or a brow of hill to be negotiated, drivers are discouraged from using their judgement.
It fosters "driving by the speedometer", whereby drivers spend more time than they ought to checking what speed their doing and less time than they ought to actually watching the road.


The UK used to have, essentially, three speed limits with very rare exceptions - 30 (mph) for built-up areas, 60 for non-built-up areas, and 70 for motorways and rural dual carriageways. Now there are multiple speed limits, and a young son of a friend of mine counted 12 changes of limit in a 10-mile trip the other week. This strikes me as simply ridiculous, to be honest.

Note true - the "informant" (police) would be laughed out of court if a driver decided to challenge such an infringement.

3Kmh is taken off the recorded speed to arrive at an "alleged" speed.

This is due to the limits of the mandated accuracy of a vehicle's speedometer.
No doubt true, but it's also true that most people aren't going to be bothered to challenge something like that in court, simply because they'll think (with good reason) that it's more trouble than it's worth. I guess too that the authorities know this.

Pay up and take it as a lesson.

^

whereas drivers ought to be encouraged to use their judgement and, if necessary, travel at a lower speed, depending on road and weather conditions, amount of traffic, and so on.

And that is the thrust of my argument. There are plenty of times of when the road conditions suggest a slower speed than posted limit. People are like sheep and they assume that the speed limit means that's the speed that is safe. On a clear day with a dry road and no traffic, I will get a ticket for travelling at 125 in a 110 zone but on a wet day with poor visibility in and heavy traffic I won't get one for travelling at 110 in a 110 zone. And that excludes the condition and age of the vehicle.

You don't encourage sensible driving by treating drivers like children.

DELETED

Don't worry chief. If I was on a "wacky mission", I wouldn't be wasting my time on here.;)

Don't worry chief. If I was on a "wacky mission", I wouldn't be wasting my time on here.;)

I'm not worried in the least, "chief".
(Plonk)

I'm not worried in the least, "chief".
(Plonk)

Great.

You don't encourage sensible driving by treating drivers like children.

Exactly. But I suppose the constant changing of speed limit along country roads is an example of what some of the popular press likes to call "the nanny state".

Exactly. But I suppose the constant changing of speed limit along country roads is an example of what some of the popular press likes to call "the nanny state". To some extent, and there are only two examples of this in the Blue Mountains, from Penrith to Lithgow, a distance of about 90km, the speed limit are: 110, 90, 70 (nanny state, local MP had an accident here, so lowered from 90 to 70), 80, 60, 80, 60, 80, 60 (roadworks), 70, 60 (roadworks), 80, 70 (nanny state, too many people not driving to the conditions), 60, 80, 60, 80, 60, 80, 60, 40 (roadworks), 60, 90, 80, 90, 70, 60. TOO many spped limit changes for such a length of highway.

The non-roadworks 60's are all in residential/shopping strips, so the high pedestrian level is the rationale for the lower speed limit, but the rest is just nanny state.

The only reason I can claim my good traffic record is that, as a past holder of a pilot's licence, I have developped a "scan" and I maintain good situational awareness, meaning I am always looking for signage and so on, but this won't help tourists or those new to an area with a sudden speed limit change.

Dave

To some extent, and there are only two examples of this in the Blue Mountains, from Penrith to Lithgow, a distance of about 90km, the speed limit are: 110, 90, 70 (nanny state, local MP had an accident here, so lowered from 90 to 70), 80, 60, 80, 60, 80, 60 (roadworks), 70, 60 (roadworks), 80, 70 (nanny state, too many people not driving to the conditions), 60, 80, 60, 80, 60, 80, 60, 40 (roadworks), 60, 90, 80, 90, 70, 60. TOO many spped limit changes for such a length of highway.
Well, I wouldn't count roadworks, and neither would I count reduced speed limits for where the road goes through a built-up area (the fact that the main route from Sydney to the west of the state goes through the middle of suburban areas and along main shopping streets of towns is a separate point... further west still one has to drive through Bathurst and then the middle of Orange, which can have some bad traffic jams – in addition, this makes life more unpleasant for the people that live there, though to be fair an Orange by-pass is being built).

However, why do we have 70, 80, and 90? (I accept that 110 is different because, presumably, that's on the road that leads off the F4 past Penrith.) It's all too much, imho.

To some extent, and there are only two examples of this in the Blue Mountains, from Penrith to Lithgow, a distance of about 90km, the speed limit are: 110, 90, 70 (nanny state, local MP had an accident here, so lowered from 90 to 70), 80, 60, 80, 60, 80, 60 (roadworks), 70, 60 (roadworks), 80, 70 (nanny state, too many people not driving to the conditions), 60, 80, 60, 80, 60, 80, 60, 40 (roadworks), 60, 90, 80, 90, 70, 60. TOO many spped limit changes for such a length of highway.

The non-roadworks 60's are all in residential/shopping strips, so the high pedestrian level is the rationale for the lower speed limit, but the rest is just nanny state.

The only reason I can claim my good traffic record is that, as a past holder of a pilot's licence, I have developped a "scan" and I maintain good situational awareness, meaning I am always looking for signage and so on, but this won't help tourists or those new to an area with a sudden speed limit change.

Dave

On the flipside there were, IMO, parts of the Bells Line of Road (between about Bell and Mt Tomah) that were signposted as 100 that were not really suitable for that sort of speed, at all. A windy, undulating, average condition, single carriageway road had a speed limit that was 10km/h below the speed limit on a dual carriageway. It highlights the incosistency. It's no wonder people were losing control, it was a case of driving to the road rather than the speed limit.