China - what's up with fapiao [invoice / tax recepit] in Beijing?

Bearing in mind that my current travel circuit is limited to BJ, SH, and SZ, I feel compelled to post that BJ restaurants are simply horrible wrt 发票.

To be fair to the restaurants, I realize that it takes an inordinate amount of time to get up to speed in these parts (slow bureaucracy). As such, I try my best to avoid bringing clients to newish establishments.

But, restaurants with 1+ years of operational history are pretty bad on this front. More often than not, the party line is that they can't issue fapiao on the spot.

My favorite excuses/retorts:

-our machine is broken
-this restaurant is too small to house a fapiao machine
-come back next Sunday
-we'll mail it to you (ha, ha)
-the owner took the key to the machine home; please wait 1 hour
-no!

What gives?

-our machine is broken

What gives?

That's believable, machine broken...Made in China.

In the case where a business owner is unable to produce a valid invoice, the customer has the right to refuse payment on the spot as well as to report them to the authorities@:-)

I never won anything on those scratch cards.

January 1, 2011. The new system is designed to promote greater usage of these invoices, firstly by simplifying the types of invoices in the system, and secondly by widening the scope for winning prize monies via the scratch card panels on the invoices themselves to encourage more consumers to request fapiaos after purchases

That's believable, machine broken...Made in China.

In the case where a business owner is unable to produce a valid invoice, the customer has the right to refuse payment on the spot as well as to report them to the authorities@:-)

I never won anything on those scratch cards.

January 1, 2011. The new system is designed to promote greater usage of these invoices, firstly by simplifying the types of invoices in the system, and secondly by widening the scope for winning prize monies via the scratch card panels on the invoices themselves to encourage more consumers to request fapiaos after purchases

Nor have I in Beijing (actually, I don't even bother scratching because the paper is so cheap), but my record in Shanghai is quite respectable.

The handful of decent restaurants near campus that I actually take official visitors to do issue fapiao without any problems (I'm sure they get a lot of business and no what's what). However, I tend not to bother when dining out as a family. When I learnt about the scratchcard issue, I was intrigued, and asked a few times, but quickly learnt that it's more of a hassle than the temporary thrill before finding out you haven't won anything.

tb

(actually, I don't even bother scratching because the paper is so cheap.

The paper is super thin, try to scratch it and it rips a hole in it.
Maybe they use them for rolling a joints:p.

I've seen shady dealings with fapiao before. Been told they were "all out" only to have 10 min later some other Chinese dude come pick up a whole roll of them...

Shady dealings indeed. The restaurant is almost certainly wanting to underreport their revenues to the Tax Bureau, and not issuing fapiao is a key factor in doing that, whether for cash or credit card transactions. I've done past experiments with a different type of service establishment or two (where I KNEW 100% in advance they were dodging local taxes) by asking for fapiao, and got the same litany of excuses that you just listed.

Semi related question:

How do users of stored value cards (Yitong in BJ, Jiaotong in SH) report subway expenses to the government?

Semi related question:

How do users of stored value cards (Yitong in BJ, Jiaotong in SH) report subway expenses to the government?

You get a fapiao when you recharge.

You get a fapiao when you recharge.

When I wanted to get one of these -- my assistant insisted we get a bus to some random counter which issues them and queue for 20mins, just because they issue an official fapiao there -- he didn't think the subway office did. What's more, he was shocked I didn't want a fapiao since I was going to use the card for personal use, so was not going to expense it!

tb

You get a fapiao when you recharge.

This presents opportunities for double dipping.

Bearing in mind that my current travel circuit is limited to BJ, SH, and SZ, I feel compelled to post that BJ restaurants are simply horrible wrt 发票.

To be fair to the restaurants, I realize that it takes an inordinate amount of time to get up to speed in these parts (slow bureaucracy). As such, I try my best to avoid bringing clients to newish establishments.

But, restaurants with 1+ years of operational history are pretty bad on this front. More often than not, the party line is that they can't issue fapiao on the spot.

My favorite excuses/retorts:

-our machine is broken
-this restaurant is too small to house a fapiao machine
-come back next Sunday
-we'll mail it to you (ha, ha)
-the owner took the key to the machine home; please wait 1 hour
-no!

What gives?

A request to all starters of threads.

Would you please spell out the acronyms and site specific terminology so we can follow the discussion. ?

Here I am at a loss as to what is a facial ?

Hahaha. Autocorrect. ;-)

Hahaha. Autocorrect. ;-)


Yes darn auto correct !

What is F A P I AO here?

I think it's some kind of official receipt.

FAPIAO (http://www.whatsonxiamen.com/news_images/6796_22.jpg)

Fapiao is a bill; a receipt; an invoice, paper to support warranty and contract, further more, it is a state lottery. It is in fact all of the above. To many foreigners, they do NOT value this piece of paper, thinking it is simply for tax purpose, and they do not have to declare their income in China, so fapiao is useless to them.

The fapiao system is used by Chinese tax authorities to calculate and collect business taxes as well as to deter tax evasion. A fapiao is provided by businesses to consumers for the amount of services or goods rendered much like a receipt.

Some might say that the fapiao is just a receipt, but it’s actually a bit more than that. Not only can you potentially win some money from the “scratch and sniff” fapiao, but sometimes you will be required to give them to your employer

Complete explanation here:

http://www.whatsonxiamen.com/xiamen-info-699.html

Bearing in mind that my current travel circuit is limited to BJ, SH, and SZ, I feel compelled to post that BJ restaurants are simply horrible wrt 发票.

To be fair to the restaurants, I realize that it takes an inordinate amount of time to get up to speed in these parts (slow bureaucracy). As such, I try my best to avoid bringing clients to newish establishments.

But, restaurants with 1+ years of operational history are pretty bad on this front. More often than not, the party line is that they can't issue fapiao on the spot.


What gives?

It might be an interesting first 2 weeks of March, when the NPC, (National peoples congress) is in town for the annual bureaucratic rubber stamp meetings. The machines "will" work then...

Also, I try & use one of my two credit cards that do NOT charge the foreign transaction fees, ( Amex plat & Chase premier Visa), & also seem to get a fapaio also made out with the name of the client in chinese. The credit card sets the tone...

Reading back from start of thread, it does seem to the new visitor to this forum that we are talking in code. :) It's just that the "fapiao" is such an ingrained part of Chinese transactional life, that it becomes an assumption that everybody knows what it is. Beginner Course/FAPIAO 101:

In simplest terms, a fapiao (Chinese: 发票) is an official receipt and it has a red chop seal on it from the business issuing it. AFAIK, it is a receipting system unique to China. In the West, you typically get a cash register or other sort of receipt for your purchase or transaction--this also exists in China and is called a "shouju." However, unlike the West, the shouju receipt has essentially no meaning when it comes to records keeping, accounting, tax issues, etc. Only the official receipt/fapiao may be used as proof for those sorts of official things.

Many merchants will ask you if you need a fapiao for the transaction, or you may have to ask. Unlike a shouju receipt, a traditional fapiao is made out TO a specific party (you, your employer, etc.). That party gets any tax benefits that accrue to that receipt. For instance, if you are traveling on your employer's behalf inside China, normal practice would be to collect all the fapiao for your hotel, restaurant, transportation expenses but have them issued with in employer's name. Then upon completion, you turn over fapiao receipts for reimbursement by employer to yourself, and the employer takes the fapiao and uses them officially as a company business expense against company income.

Larger merchants such as department stores have special centralized desks for issuing fapiao. Services such as air ticketing usually give you a fapiao receipt as a matter of routine. Fapiao can be issued regardless of mode of payment you are using (cash, cc, etc.).

There are two types of fapiao. The first is a traditional single receipt, custom-generated in the exact amount of the transaction and with any name you desire put on it. The second, which is a relatively recent innovation, are multiple receipts that are non-specific as to person, but come in denominations of RMB 1, 5, 10, 50, etc. Some businesses deal with fapiao this way--if your transaction is RMB 77, they'll give you multiple prepriced fapiao adding up to that. These basically are like bearer coupons as they are no-name. These come with a scratch-off place that give various small prize amounts of cash...or nothing. An incentive to encourage customers to ask for fapiao, which in turn makes it theoretically more difficult for businesses to transact "under the table." No fapiao is valid without the business' red chop seal on it.

From the merchant's point of view, once a fapiao has been issued to a customer, the transactional amount identified in the fapiao is now non-hideable to tax authorities. For businesses with an inclination to play fast and loose with the Tax Bureau and avoid declaring revenue, issuing fapiao is therefore a negative thing. Some of us believe that this is the underlying motive for the sort of responses the OP is getting from some businesses. In China, it is technically illegal for a business to refuse to give a customer fapiao if asked.

Non-Chinese tourists traveling in China generally have no contact with the tax authorities, therefore no need to collect fapiao. I don't bother with them for personal goods and services that will not need reimbursement from a local business/employer/etc. The only exception I would advise is for domestic air tickets, to get the fapiao (often issued on blue paper stock) receipt if you can. In the event of a local refund, redeposit, or ticket exchange, it sometimes makes things easier.

Thus endeth the lesson. Now you know the basics of fapiao.

A request to all starters of threads.

Would you please spell out the acronyms and site specific terminology so we can follow the discussion. ?

Here I am at a loss as to what is a facial ?

For Chinese words don't have English equivalents, it is acceptable practice to state them in pinyin or, heaven forbid, Chinese characters (I'm thinking of 串 here, a character that looks exactly like what it represents). You're not the first person to accuse us of being clicky in this forum, but you (and others who share your view) must realize that China, along with all of its strange quirks, is firmly ingrained in our blood.

In short, terms like "fapiao" and "串" belong in same category as "burrito". Thanks to Google and Wikipedia, it's pretty easy for anyone to get up to speed these days.

In short, terms like "fapiao" and "串" belong in same category as "burrito". Thanks to Google and Wikipedia, it's pretty easy for anyone to get up to speed these days.

If you need fapiao's you can get them from sellers on the street who will discretely yell out "fapiao" as you pass by them. Kinda like the "hashish" guys from Xinjiang. When buying things, I always ask for them and, although I'm not often in Beijing, I've never had a problem getting them. The most I've won is 50RMB in Shanghai, where the odds of winning seem to be better than anywhere else. For the thrill of scratching them off, I would recommend always asking for them.

When I was a student many years ago we translated "chuan" as S*** Stick. I think it was apropos at the time.

I came back from Beijing last Friday evening- was there for a few days and had no problems at all getting official invoices everywhere we went (restaurants).

If you need fapiao's you can get them from sellers on the street who will discretely yell out "fapiao" as you pass by them. Kinda like the "hashish" guys from Xinjiang. When buying things, I always ask for them and, although I'm not often in Beijing, I've never had a problem getting them. The most I've won is 50RMB in Shanghai, where the odds of winning seem to be better than anywhere else. For the thrill of scratching them off, I would recommend always asking for them.

When I was a student many years ago we translated "chuan" as S*** Stick. I think it was apropos at the time.

I went to birthday dinner in SH about 6 months ago, and the prize was y2,000. Suffice it to say, the birthday girl was pretty happy.

I went to birthday dinner in SH about 6 months ago, and the prize was y2,000. Suffice it to say, the birthday girl was pretty happy.

That's great!

For Chinese words don't have English equivalents, it is acceptable practice to state them in pinyin or, heaven forbid, Chinese characters (I'm thinking of 串 here, a character that looks exactly like what it represents). You're not the first person to accuse us of being clicky in this forum, but you (and others who share your view) must realize that China, along with all of its strange quirks, is firmly ingrained in our blood.

Fapiaos are pretty similar to tax invoices and they both serve the same purpose, to prove that a value-added tax has been paid.

You're not the first person to accuse us of being clicky in this forum, .

Far from the truth.

more succintly:
In depth reports from those in the trench.

Far from the truth.

more succintly:
In depth reports from those in the trench.
Thank you for detailed explanations.

I am mystified as to how I communicated that you all are clickish. !

Thank you for detailed explanations.

I am mystified as to how I communicated that you all are clickish. !

..clickish....chinglish

Has a nice ring to it.^

Clickish? I think this is something done by a computer mouse on the rampage. Y'all mean clique-ish perchance? Oh, surely not us.

At any rate, if you seem to be Lost-in-Translation on this forum, just ask. Most of the regulars are softies, and nobody has a bite that's worse than their bark. :p

My GF gets really mad at them sometimes when they won't give a fapiao ever since she won like 100 RMB. She always insists on it even though I don't care. Sometimes the store will give us free food or beers in exchange for not taking one, which makes me believe that if you don't ask, they don't pay the tax at all.

The best was when we went to Qiandaohu and got a plate of these wonderful seafood dumplings just for not taking one.

5 years back when I was in Fuzhou, whenever I don't take fapiao, a discount is given to me. Nothing like this now when I was in Fuzhou 3 months ago and no such discount in Beijing So I always take a fapiao and sometimes, I am lucky but the highest amount I have won was like 5rmb?

I am like assisting them in tax evasion but when you don't take the fapiao, there's always a possibility that the vendor will evade tax. (highly possible)

My GF gets really mad at them sometimes when they won't give a fapiao ever since she won like 100 RMB. .

The way it works.

Dude always pays the bill..chick always demands the fapaio. :p

The way it works.

Dude always pays the bill..chick always demands the fapaio. :p

Ha ha! So true!

When you hear " the machine is broken", best to excuse yourself ..for whatever made up reason, to avoid listening to a ten minute argument over a worthless piece of paper.

When you hear " the machine is broken", best to excuse yourself ..for whatever made up reason, to avoid listening to a ten minute argument over a worthless piece of paper.

Which is required by law and for all fiscal purposes. Hardly worthless.

In the context of a 20 dollar meal. Give the owner a break, if they
want to cheat on their taxes, don't break their back over getting
a non-existant scratchoff prize.

In the context of a 20 dollar meal. Give the owner a break, if they
want to cheat on their taxes, don't break their back over getting
a non-existant scratchoff prize.

And how then do you expense to your PRC company?

Originally Posted by benzemalyonnais
My GF gets really mad at them sometimes when they won't give a fapiao ever since she won like 100 RMB. .

In the referred, submitting as a business expense is more questionable than
"the machine is broken".

This presents opportunities for double dipping.

How so?

How so?

You get a fapiao when you load your jiaotong card, and can also request fapiao when paying for services with the card.

Originally Posted by benzemalyonnais
My GF gets really mad at them sometimes when they won't give a fapiao ever since she won like 100 RMB. .

In the referred, submitting as a business expense is more questionable than
"the machine is broken".

Good point in this context- I never thought about dinner with the GF as a business expense- my suggestion was more related to what happens if you are on a business lunch and you are not able to get a fapiao.

Good point in this context- I never thought about dinner with the GF as a business expense- my suggestion was more related to what happens if you are on a business lunch and you are not able to get a fapiao.

If they refuse the fapiao ...I suppose one could refuse to pay the bill.
If their machine is broken, too bad...fix it.

Who pays out the money won on the scratchcard?

And, can non-residents partake in this state lottery too?

Who pays out the money won on the scratchcard?

And, can non-residents partake in this state lottery too?

I believe that the restaurant can force patrons to collect winnings over a certain amount at the tax bureau itself, but they usually tend to pay out on the spot (the shear site of an ecstatic birthday girl makes for great publicity).

All are welcome to participate in the fun.

You get a fapiao when you load your jiaotong card, and can also request fapiao when paying for services with the card.

Where else can you use the card? I was only aware of taxi's and subway. So it appears only via taxi's can you double dip.

Where else can you use the card? I was only aware of taxi's and subway. So it appears only via taxi's can you double dip.

Buses and trolleybusesMetrosFerriesTaxisTourist centersCar parksFuel stationsExpresswaysAirport maglevAuto repair service

Where else can you use the card? I was only aware of taxi's and subway. So it appears only via taxi's can you double dip.

Various convenience stores accept them, and I recall that either McDs or KFC was also on board in ~2003.

Various convenience stores accept them, and I recall that either McDs or KFC was also on board in ~2003.

KFC.

SPTC
other uses:
utilities..gas electric water

What??? KFC accepts the JT card? You've got to be kidding me? I never knew that...

Buses and other public transport I knew.

What??? KFC accepts the JT card? You've got to be kidding me? .
plus they will give you fapiao
http://www.chinasmack.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/shanghai-kfc-fapiao-receipt.jpg

If i say purchased an item from a department store ie:perfume or clothing will the fapiao state perfume or clothing on it?

If i say purchased an item from a department store ie:perfume or clothing will the fapiao state perfume or clothing on it?

Yes.