Travel with Children - Bring carseat to gate hoping UA lets me use it on non-full flight?

I depart on Monday and see that the flight UA 889 SFO-PEK looks about 60% full. My aunt and I are flying with my 23 month old twin boys flying as lap children, and I have window seats reserved for both of us with the middle seat currently open.

I'm debating whether it is worth the effort for me to lug the 2 carseats in hopes that I can bring them on board and use them given all the open seats with just a few days to go - or is it more likely that United will not allow me to bring them on board? And can anyone offer any advice on how to improve the chances that I will be able to use the seats onboard?

I think the children will definitely sleep a lot better and be easier to confine in the carseats, but did not purchase seats due to financial constraints.

Online seatmaps are NOT an actual indication of load factors for upcoming flights . You should not assume there will be any empty seats.

IMO it's insane not to purchase seats for 23-month-old children on a 12-hour flight, both for their safety and your endurance level. Now you are asking the best way to get something for free that you have already refused to pay for.

Welcome to FT 1plustwinsmom!

Agree, the seat map is a totally unreliable way to tell how full your flight is.

You can hope for the best and bring the car seats, but there's no way to guarantee there will be an empty seat for them. Good luck; that's an insanely long flight holding a 23 month old.

Many years ago I did one flight with a nine month old in my lap and swore never again. If I couldn't afford to purchase a seat, I just didn't go. It's not fun.

Online seatmaps are NOT an actual indication of load factors for upcoming flights . You should not assume there will be any empty seats.

IMO it's insane not to purchase seats for 23-month-old children on a 12-hour flight, both for their safety and your endurance level. Now you are asking the best way to get something for free that you have already refused to pay for.

Also what about the poor sod if the middle seat fills up. ?

Forget about comfort, every study which has ever been done points to the serious dangers in turbulence for lap children. Especially at almost 2 yrs old it's not only uncomfortable but risky for your children and for you. If the seats are available, but them. If not, don't go.

Now that you've been suitably chastised, I'll tell you that the flight is wide open in all cabins, so not only should you bring your car seats, but you can probably get entire rows for your family in back if you ask the gate agent nicely.

Good luck!

I agree with buying ticket for children, but if you don't I can understand. You could check out baby b'air flight harness for a little peace of mind about turbulence.

IMHO, the Baby B'Air is a waste of money. A good baby carrier will do the same thing and it can't be used for take-off and landing (dangerous, baby is safer loose in the adult's lap).

Definitely bring the seats to the gate. The FAA says that it's allowed (using empty places for car seats even when a seat hasn't been purchased.

Ask nicely at check-in and if you are not successful, the seats can then be gate-checking, which is way smarter than checking them as luggage (less chance of their being lost).

If you are only able to secure one free place, try to put your aunt in the same row on the aisle.

This is low-season (if there is one for trans-Pacific travel) so you might get lucky. Hope you do because it's a long time to have a big baby like that on your lap.

I'm interested in people's interpretation:

When the FAA says it's "allowed," it doesn't mean (to me) that an airline is *required* to allow it - just that the FAA won't write them up for it if they do permit it.

The first airline that stops permitting it is the airline that gets my business for life, even if it's Air Nowhere and I am relegated to spending the rest of my like vacationing in BFE.

A U.S. company can't ban it and they wont. Less work for them, not having to handle the car seat if the passenger brings it on board. Also, it's more comfortable for the parent, baby and other passengers seated around them.

What the airlines wont do is move passengers around to accommodate this request. A passenger can't complain if they aren't allowed to use the car seat on board and later see empty seats on the flight. It's definitely not a right.

I agree with the principal of each passenger having their own seat but as long as lap babies are allowed, parents will continue to travel this way.

P.S. To the OP, I corrected my previous post. If you can only secure one free seat, hopefully in a window aisle, put the seat by the window and then the two of you next to each other.

IMHO, the Baby B'Air is a waste of money. A good baby carrier will do the same thing and it can't be used for take-off and landing (dangerous, baby is safer loose in the adult's lap).

Baby is decidedly not safe in a lap on takeoff and landing. For a graphic illustration of how unsafe, watch the 1993 movie Fearless (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0106881/) with Jeff Bridges and Rosie Perez. The plot hinges in part on the awful consequences of taking this advice. It's on YouTube, cut up into ten-minute chunks.

Note that the OP's "babies" are actually toddlers -- 23 months old -- just weeks way from needing their own tickets. They're just sliding in under the wire. I can't imagine what it would be like to keep a kid of that age and weight on my knee for 12+ hours (no way to pull your tray down and eat, no way to keep your legs from falling asleep, etc.) or to sit next to a parent doing this. And in the event of a serious mishap on takeoff or landing the kids will inevitably, absolutely become in-cabin missiles, and be pulverized. Sorry for graphic language but it's the truth.

I only flew with my infant son once without buying him his own seat. Once was enough.

they can't ban the use of a car seat for PAID passengers, but they are not obligated to accept a car seat for non-paying passengers as I understand it. Am I mistaken?

I see your point that they are looking out for #1 in terms of less work and whatever, but they *could* (albeit won't) say "no paid ticket, no car seat." They can do that, can't they?

Of course they could
i flew a number of times with my daughter as a lap infant, i don't drive and didn't own a car seat and as said lap infants are allowed. On my last flight with her as a lap infant (on UA as it happened) the row we were on had 1 person, open seat another person and then myself, i didn't say anything when the other two people in the row insisted that they needed the open seat (they were flying together with other friends) and accepted that i had chosen to fly with my daughter as a lap infant, if i had had the money i would have purchased her a seat, i flew with her as both a lap infant and with her own seat prior to her turning 2 and accepted that as i had made the decision i shouldn't ask for anything, same as i wouldn't ask for an upgrade (when flying alone)

IMHO, the Baby B'Air is a waste of money. A good baby carrier will do the same thing and it can't be used for take-off and landing (dangerous, baby is safer loose in the adult's lap).

Definitely bring the seats to the gate. The FAA says that it's allowed (using empty places for car seats even when a seat hasn't been purchased.

Ask nicely at check-in and if you are not successful, the seats can then be gate-checking, which is way smarter than checking them as luggage (less chance of their being lost).

If you are only able to secure one free place, try to put your aunt in the same row on the aisle.

This is low-season (if there is one for trans-Pacific travel) so you might get lucky. Hope you do because it's a long time to have a big baby like that on your lap.

Eclipse and Bear don't want to get in argument with moderator and 12K poster, but the baby b'air has its place. If you take the time to read original post you will see I said you should buy seat which means use car seat which I do even in F. Also, if you do some research exponentially more infants are seriously injured by turbulence on aircraft than crashes. The odds of your baby being injured in a crash are very remote, but turbulence especially on long haul a real possibility.
So to your premise of taking car seat on and not buying ticket what if they don't let you on with it then what do you do? You are the in the same position as if you didn't take it at all. That's why I mentioned the baby b'air. I never said you could use it for take off and landing. I said you can use it during flight to decrease chances of baby begin thrown around by turbulence. It is better than nothing. It weighs next to nothing and takes up little room. So, I wouldn't use such strong wording as worthless it has a place for someone who isn't going to guarantee their child a spot with a seat.

"safety reasons" = paranoid nonsense
Many thousands lap kids fly daily so let's not go crazy here.

On a more practical note, this flight is on 747 with 3-4-3 config - if the loads are relatively low i strongly suggest taking two aisles in the middle section. With light load you'll have a row of 4 to your family.
Another options is to book window and aisle on either side; middle will most likely stay open and it's manageable with two infants (or one adult can move elsewhere if it is fairly empty). We sometimes put 20" roller in front of that seat essentially extending "bed" space.

I would bring car seat to the gate - the worst case scenario is checking them there - you really don't have much to lose. Gate agents in US will usually try to help, don't count on that when departing from overseas. IMO you'll benefit much more from children's benadryl than car seat but again there is nothing to lose there.

In general having flown with our twins a quite bit both as lap kids and with separate seats for our own sanity we settled on booking at least three seats. The forth one is normally less valuable if you have 3-3-3 or 3-3 configuration. YMMV

Many thousands lap kids fly daily so let's not go crazy here.


Agree! ^

"safety reasons" = paranoid nonsense

Not nonsense at all. If anything goes wrong, a lap baby doesn't have much chance of surviving. The key is... things rarely go wrong in commercial aviation so don't diss parents who want their children to be safe. Having the car seat is more comfortable as well.

you'll benefit much more from children's benadryl than car seat but again there is nothing to lose there.

Before drugging any child, make sure they've taken it on the ground first. Luckily, when my parents gave me Benedryl, we were on the ground because I had to be taken to the ER to be revived. I was seven and turns out this is a common reaction. Don't feel the need to give the full dosage as all drugs are stronger at altitude. Also, I do NOT recommend giving anything to make the child sleep if you have a lap baby. You will be pinned under them the whole time and that might not be very comfortable if you need the lav!!!

"safety reasons" = paranoid nonsense
Many thousands lap kids fly daily so let's not go crazy here. Actually, let's. If you think providing your baby with a certain (albeit modest) margin of safety on a plane is "paranoid nonsense," I presume you don't bother to fasten your own safety belt either... or wear one in a car... or own life insurance.

Most car trips are completed successfully each day but it's not paranoid nonsense to buckle up in case you get hit. Such a cavalier attitude toward child safety is bizarre to me.

I don't think you read the part where I said that "a good baby carrier will do the same thing". If they already have a good quality baby carrier, they don't need to buy a Baby B'Air. It's basically the same thing. Both have to come off for take-off and landing.

Please read my posts more carefully.

For the record, I didn't even notice your status.

Actually, let's. If you think providing your baby with a certain (albeit modest) margin of safety on a plane is "paranoid nonsense," I presume you don't bother to fasten your own safety belt either... or wear one in a car... or own life insurance.

Most car trips are completed successfully each day but it's not paranoid nonsense to buckle up in case you get hit. Such a cavalier attitude toward child safety is bizarre to me.

Can you provide any facts/statistics (preferably official FAA etc and not urban legends or FA storytelling) to support your claims? Sorry but "watch the 1993 movie" doesn't qualify :D

I base my decisions on facts rather than unsubstantiated fears. YMMV of course.

I don't think you read the part where I said that "a good baby carrier will do the same thing". If they already have a good quality baby carrier, they don't need to buy a Baby B'Air. It's basically the same thing. Both have to come off for take-off and landing.

Please read my posts more carefully.

For the record, I didn't even notice your status.

Who are you responding to here? For the record I agree with you completely.

"safety reasons" = paranoid nonsense
Many thousands lap kids fly daily so let's not go crazy here.

On a more practical note, this flight is on 747 with 3-4-3 config - if the loads are relatively low i strongly suggest taking two aisles in the middle section. With light load you'll have a row of 4 to your family.
Another options is to book window and aisle on either side; middle will most likely stay open and it's manageable with two infants (or one adult can move elsewhere if it is fairly empty). We sometimes put 20" roller in front of that seat essentially extending "bed" space.

I would bring car seat to the gate - the worst case scenario is checking them there - you really don't have much to lose. Gate agents in US will usually try to help, don't count on that when departing from overseas. IMO you'll benefit much more from children's benadryl than car seat but again there is nothing to lose there.

In general having flown with our twins a quite bit both as lap kids and with separate seats for our own sanity we settled on booking at least three seats. The forth one is normally less valuable if you have 3-3-3 or 3-3 configuration. YMMV

I think that only works if the middle seats stay open, if there is a passenger in the middle seat, you wouldn't, on most aircraft, have enough masks for it to be an ok arrangement (ie 5 people in row of 3 / 6 people in row of 4 is 1 too many, mask wise). If that happened, one of the people and children would have to move somewhere else, which could be far worse than planning to be closer in the cabin (row in front / across aisle etc).

I think that only works if the middle seats stay open, if there is a passenger in the middle seat, you wouldn't, on most aircraft, have enough masks for it to be an ok arrangement (ie 5 people in row of 3 / 6 people in row of 4 is 1 too many, mask wise). If that happened, one of the people and children would have to move somewhere else, which could be far worse than planning to be closer in the cabin (row in front / across aisle etc).

Absolutely - my thoughts were based on the assumption of fair number of empty seats which op's flight seems to have (and obviously that can change fast with some group booking). If the flight is full it's an utter misery unless one finds a bassinet seat.
With 1k account I would at least book an award seat and cancel before departure if loads are light.

What is F/A "storytelling"?? No, not all accident info is released to the press. Details are withheld. If you opt to fly with a lap baby and the plane aborts the take-off, and your child is thrown out of your arms, the airlines will not share that with the media. Your tragedy remains private. A few times, passengers themselves have come forward, like one mom after the UA Sioux City accident.

Public relations folks! You can look some of this up on the TSA website but it's a lot of digging. Don't base or doubt safety information on just what you can or can't Google.

I don't think you read the part where I said that "a good baby carrier will do the same thing". If they already have a good quality baby carrier, they don't need to buy a Baby B'Air. It's basically the same thing. Both have to come off for take-off and landing.

Please read my posts more carefully.

For the record, I didn't even notice your status.



Hmm, interesting tone from MOD.

I did read your post. A baby carrier is not the same as baby b'air.

Differences: baby carriers aren't designed to hold the baby in if forces catapult the baby upwards. The extra weight of the baby can injury the wearer if both are slung forward (The baby b'air attaches to seat belt). If parent falls asleep you could potential suffocate the child in some baby carriers. Baby carriers are generally much bulkier and cost more. Do you think everyone owns a baby carrier already?

You obviously have some sort of personal axe to grind against baby b'air I'll let other readers make their own decisions. Enough said.

Are you being paid by the Baby B'Air company to promote their product on this board?? I wouldn't put it past them!

My "axe to grind" is that I'm trying to help parents save some money! (Don't thank me!) You have no proof that this gizmo is somehow "safer" than a normal baby carrier. And what is that "suffocating" business? Where did you hear that?!? There were poorly designed "bag slings" were dangerous but I understand they've been taken off the market. Please don't get all confused on one specific poorly designed item (that I rarely saw sold or used in the first place) vs. a really smart product for parents to have. It's like saying we shouldn't use baby cribs because of SIDS.

Also, this "slung forward" is unlikely in turbulence. That's on take-off and landing, the most dangerous portions of the flight, when this gizmo can't be used. The baby is safer loose in the adult's lap.

Of course, the bottom line is that there really isn't any alternative to a car seat. That really is the only way for a baby to travel safely in any phase of a flight. The whole deal with lap babies is that there is little chance of anything bad happening on any given flight. Thank goodness! Commercial air travel is very safe and that's what you're betting on when you opt to do the lap baby thing.

I hate to see parents prompted to buy something that can only be used for air travel, with an unproven safety record in lieu of using something they may already have.

Are you being paid by the Baby B'Air company to promote their product on this board?? I wouldn't put it past them!



Seriously?!?:confused:

"safety reasons" = paranoid nonsense

Not nonsense at all. If anything goes wrong, a lap baby doesn't have much chance of surviving. The key is... things rarely go wrong in commercial aviation so don't diss parents who want their children to be safe. Having the car seat is more comfortable as well.

you'll benefit much more from children's benadryl than car seat but again there is nothing to lose there.

Before drugging any child, make sure they've taken it on the ground first. Luckily, when my parents gave me Benedryl, we were on the ground because I had to be taken to the ER to be revived. I was seven and turns out this is a common reaction. Don't feel the need to give the full dosage as all drugs are stronger at altitude. Also, I do NOT recommend giving anything to make the child sleep if you have a lap baby. You will be pinned under them the whole time and that might not be very comfortable if you need the lav!!!
------------------------

I've been lurking, but really enjoying these posts. Excellent point about the Benedryl! :-: Have seen way too many kids bouncing off the walls of a plane or having a dangerous reaction.:confused:
Parents: Please trial stuff out at home on your kids, before you are 30,000+ ft in the air with them!