Hilton HHonors - Children Watch Porno Movies

I recently stayed at the Innsbruck, Austria Hilton w/ my sister and her two boys (10 & 8 years old). The hotel was quite nice with a friendly staff and I even got UGed as a Diamond to a suite upon check-in with relative ease. Anyway, my sister and the boys took the suite and I had a room across the hall. After about 10 mins. she came across the hall to my room to ask about the sight seeing plans for the two days. Upon her return to her room she was horrified to find the boys watching the porno channel. It seems this hotel offers a free 5 min. viewing of the pay TV offerings. It is not accessed by pressing a pay TV button on the remote but simply by scrolling thru the regular TV offerings. So if one was watching CNN and wanted to then watch the Cartoon Network you would have to watch a few seconds of the hard core porno before you got to a normal channel. I'm sure they arrange it this way so as to entice you to buy a pay TV film.

My sister was really upset by this and was even more so when the 8 year old described to her what they had seen. She immediately went down to the front desk and was told the cable TV people told them that was the only way they could set up the pay TV programs. When my sister mentioned that most Hiltons require you to select a pay TV channel and then enter your room number the receptionist had no reply but to say they were sorry.

My sister has always been very dutiful about making sure her boys watch only appropriate movies (she even avoids most PG-13s) and won't allow them to play some of the more violent video games. She is now fearful that the boys will go back to their school friends and tell them about what they saw and then their parents will be mad at her.

Anyway, I am curious as to what, if anything, I should do. Should I send a letter back to the hotel or write to Hilton customer service? Your thoughts would be appreciated.

Hmm, you have to accept the fact that Europeans are a lot less puritanical (or a lot more liberal) about sex than Americans are. Doubtful is anything will happen by writing.

If they had been watching public(ly-broadcasted) t.v. channels in the Netherlands and some other countries, they could have seen bare female breasts on prime time early evening ads.

I'd have to agree with terenz. I think you have to write it off and embrace the "when in Rome" attitude. I think its a bit selfish to expect european hotels to cater to US expectations. I would guess the same children saw a fair degree of minor nudity on street adverts in Innsbruck.

terenz is right about more liberal attitudes towards sex in Europe than in N.A. It's much to expect those elsehwere to live by our standards. You can complain to Hilton but don't expect them to make any changes to the hardware.

To put it simply, parents are responsible for their children and the hotel is not. Unaccompanied minors are still the responsibility of the parent and one of the parents should have been in the room with the children at all times if such things or other things are a concern when they are not being closely monitored.

While I do understand the differences between the EU and US attitude towards TV content I am amazed the front desk didn't have the ability to lock out these channels from the room. This is most certainly not a european only thing, I've seen many hotels in the US offer a "free" 20 second preview before switching to the room number page. It all comes down to the parents being responsable for what the kids do.

What you could do is write to the hotel and advise they update the system so it can lock out these channels from room with kids, I doubt writing to Hilton will help but it certainly won't hurt, perhaps it will trigger some kind of chain-wide policy on the matter.

I believe it's a Spectravision thing, which is not very common here in the states, but still very common in Europe. Almost every hotel I've been to in Europe does the same thing, offering 20-25 second preview of all the payperview channels, including porno. I remember when I checked into the Renaissance Gatwick and was flipping channels and saw all the pay per view and porno channels I called down to make sure I wasn't being billed just because I went channel up and channel down like I do at home. (I wasn't).

Also, as others have said, the 'regular' fare is pretty spicy per US standards in Europe... when in Rome, do as the Romans do, I guess...It's not just a Hilton thing, not just a local Hilton thing, so I doubt writing will do much..

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by MileTex:
When my sister mentioned that most Hiltons require you to select a pay TV channel and then enter your room number the receptionist had no reply but to say they were sorry.</font>

Slightly off topic, but enter your room number? I have never come across that when ordering movies in a hotel ... I can believe it exists, but in my experience this is not a common feature (having never come across it in any hotel).

I assumed when I read the title of this thread that it was a promo. Sort of like Holiday Inn's "Kids Eat Free" promo.

I agree this is parent issue. Even thirty years ago, the stuff on European TV and in newspapers/magazines was commonly unsuitable for children. I don't allow mine to watch TV in European hotels unless I am in the room.

While I generally agree with some of the sentiments expressed here, I think the whole shoulder shrug "there isn't anything we can do about it" response is B.S.

Even if the something they can do is disable all the tv stations, they can do something about it.

I have been watching porn since I was 3. That's how I learned to do "the old Jimmy wiggle" Now I run a successful Gentlemen's Club. Thanks porn ^ !

While there is no question that there is a more liberal attitude towards nudity and sex in Europe, these children were not watching simple nudity, but hard core porn. I doubt too many Europeans would want their own young children watching that. So, "when in Rome..." isn't really relevent to the situation at hand. If she was just complaining about some simple nudity, I would agree that the "when in Rome" argument would hold.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

Im surprised nobody has discussed the lawsuit option... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ac/elite:
While there is no question that there is a more liberal attitude towards nudity and sex in Europe, these children were not watching simple nudity, but hard core porn. I doubt too many Europeans would want their own young children watching that. So, "when in Rome..." isn't really relevent to the situation at hand. If she was just complaining about some simple nudity, I would agree that the "when in Rome" argument would hold.</font>

How exactly do you know it was hard core? Not once in the original posting is there a refrence to hard core porn, only pornochannel. Just curious.



[This message has been edited by andrzej (edited 07-24-2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by andrzej:
How exactly do you know it was hard core? Not once in the original posting is there a refrence to hard core porn, only pornochannel. Just curious.

[This message has been edited by andrzej (edited 07-24-2003).]</font>

Uhh - read it again....

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by andrzej:
How exactly do you know it was hard core? Not once in the original posting is there a refrence to hard core porn, only pornochannel. Just curious.

[This message has been edited by andrzej (edited 07-24-2003).]</font>

Well what the kids saw was explicit anal sex between a biracial couple on one channel and two lesbians fully nude in a 69 position on the other channel. Hate to be so blunt but thats what the kids saw.




[This message has been edited by MileTex (edited 07-24-2003).]

Missed it, sorry!

Before I leave this non-issue for good, I would like to think that most of us here are frequent travelers, and as such sleep in many different hotels. We all know how easy it is too get to see a few minutes of porn at any hotel that offers it. A 10 year old kid in todays world would probably find his way there quicker then most of us adults. Even in the US hotels it is a fairly simple procedure: Menu-Movies-Adult-Press for short sample.
My point is that the parents especially a seasoned traveler should be aware of that and make sure the kids don't have a chance.
I also agree that seeing few naked bodies rolling around wasn't and isn't that traumatic to young boys, hell, some of my buddies and I spend endless summer hours planning how to get our hands on some porno mags, and occasionally we succeeded. That fact didnt turn any of us into some sexual deviants. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
Just my opinion, yours could be different.
Have a great day!

Speaking about porn, is that Manhattan community cable channel (any content o.k. as long as it falls along "community standards") still offering what it did 10-20 years ago?

I remember the shock when I channel surfed in a Manhattan hotel. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by MileTex:
sex between a biracial couple</font>Biracial? Scandalous!

Of course, it would be nice if you could have front desk selectively turn off channels based on your preferences. But guess what - it's not possible because the company who designed the equipment (not Hilton, mind you) most likely did not offer that option when it comes to regular, not pay-per-view variety. That means that you have to rely on a low tech solution.

It's your parental right to decide what your children may or may not watch. But it's your parental responsibility to enforce it.

Not getting into the argument of puritan US of A vs. liberal Europe, here is a very simple yet effective solution: unplug the TV. Show your kids a good example.

The TV is not a babysitter.

More than six months ago, I asked:

Should X-Rated Movies Be Banned From Hotel Rooms? (http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/Forum11/HTML/009155.html)

This thread is obviously a case in which the answer may favor the “yes” side, but both sides of the issue were debated in the aforementioned thread.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Rut Dog:
"Originally posted by MileTex:
sex between a biracial couple"

Biracial? Scandalous!</font>

Sorry, MileTex, but your credibility did just take a big hit with this statement.

The porn thing, as others have said, is common in europe. Indeed on a trip last year with my (33 year old) sister we used to try the porn at each new hotel to get the free preview to check out how bad it was http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif We'd laugh when the same crap showed up at 2 hotels in a row....

Given that it's a constant in Europe and what one should expect (ok, an initial surprise for those that don't know, but now they do know) then plan appropriately for it and move on.

------------------
RichardMEL, UA 1K
A Star Alliance Member.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by littleleaguemom:
I agree this is parent issue. Even thirty years ago, the stuff on European TV and in newspapers/magazines was commonly unsuitable for children. I don't allow mine to watch TV in European hotels unless I am in the room. </font>

I agree as well; I'm not sure that she will get much in the way of a response.

However, regarding European TVs -- most of the stuff we have on the telly here comes from the US http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">However, regarding European TVs -- most of the stuff we have on the telly here comes from the US </font>
On behalf of the rest of the United States: we're sorry.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by littleleaguemom:
Even thirty years ago, the stuff on European TV and in newspapers/magazines was commonly unsuitable for children.</font>Huh??? You mean it's even unsuitable for our european children?? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/eek.gif How come, most kids here are still pretty sane after being confronted with our TV and newspapers/magazines? On the opposite, I'd say that especially american TV is unsuitable for children as it is much more violent and brutal.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Canarsie:
More than six months ago, I asked:

Should X-Rated Movies Be Banned From Hotel Rooms? (http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/Forum11/HTML/009155.html)

</font>

The first page on that thread has got to be one of the funniest ever. Haven't gone beyond that but hope to do so later.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by curt:
Huh??? You mean it's even unsuitable for our european children?? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/eek.gif How come, most kids here are still pretty sane after being confronted with our TV and newspapers/magazines? On the opposite, I'd say that especially american TV is unsuitable for children as it is much more violent and brutal.
</font>

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/thumbsup.gif Well said. Sadly, a lot of people here in the US just don't get this. It's always the porn, not the violence/brutality that "corrupts our children" http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

Amusingly though, it's still the #1 online product in the US http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

So, let me get this straight... thay give you a free thirty seconds??? ****, that's all I need!

If children are so inclined in hotels, they will be so inclined and/or stumble onto such materials on computers too.

Parents are responsible for their children and should educate and monitor their children appropriately in their interactions with the world and with media/mediums. The question inevitably turns to: "Would we have hotels ban computers and internet access too -- all for the children?" ;-)

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Psychocadet:
So, let me get this straight... thay give you a free thirty seconds??? ****, that's all I need!</font>

ROFL

If parents are concerned that their children might be exposed to any "undesirable" elements or conditions that derivate from the completely puritanical conditions one may wish to raise them in, then said parents should home school them and keep them under lock and key with no access to electronic media.

Europe would not be the place to bring your children.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Eastbay1K:
If parents are concerned that their children might be exposed to any "undesirable" elements or conditions that derivate from the completely puritanical conditions one may wish to raise them in, then said parents should home school them and keep them under lock and key with no access to electronic media.

Europe would not be the place to bring your children. </font>

... or they should apply for an immigration visa for Saudi Arabia (and even there they would not be able to avoid all such material). ;-)

However, all things said, I can respect the fact that parents should be able to block off things as they deem fit.

[This message has been edited by GUWonder (edited 07-25-2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by curt:
Originally posted by littleleaguemom:
Even thirty years ago, the stuff on European TV and in newspapers/magazines was commonly unsuitable for children.</font>Huh??? You mean it's even unsuitable for our european children?? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/eek.gif How come, most kids here are still pretty sane after being confronted with our TV and newspapers/magazines? On the opposite, I'd say that especially american TV is unsuitable for children as it is much more violent and brutal.



We don't have cable and allow very little TV at home, as US TV is mostly mindless trash. I don't think it is suitable for anyone. I've watched maybe 20 hours of TV at home in the last six years, including 9/11. The nudity and language on European TV is just ever-so-much-more-so.

I do let my son watch cable in hotels under supervision as part of the vacation. Actually, my husband and now 15-year-old son mostly prefer the history and discovery channels and paid movies. They do adore "violence" and love the war and weapons presentations on the history channel. We had to spend an entire day in the Musee du Armee in Paris savoring every helmet, sabre, etc.

Since the TV can be censored, a bigger problem in Europe is the newsstands, including the hotel gift shops. We are not prudish about about nudity, spend a lot of time appreciating (nude) art, etc but my child was horrified at the stuff on display every time he tried to find a sports magazine to read in Europe. I grew up before the Playboys were banished to the backroom of Barnes and Noble, so that was him, not me, being upset. He knows to bring his reading matter along now.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by MileTex:
Well what the kids saw was explicit anal sex between a biracial couple on one channel and two lesbians fully nude in a 69 position on the other channel. Hate to be so blunt but thats what the kids saw.
</font>

I saw that too when I was 10 and have never voted Republican ever since. Now you know why the right-wing is as bogus as they come.

Ditto with the severe left-wing as well.

I agree with terenz. The USA has its problems because of the uneducated puritanical sexually frustrated.

I'm about as liberal a parent as they come - raised by Norwegians who are not exactly shy when it comes to matters of sex - but I can't help but think many posters are being a bit rough on the mother here.

I see sex as beautiful and have let my son watch R-rated sexual movies since he was quite young, but not violent ones. He seems to have a very healthy attitude about sex.

However, I do think it's perfectly resonable to leave your suite for a couple of minutes and expect your young children to flip channels looking for cartoons without being subjected to hard-core porn. Seeing commercials with barebreasted or naked women is hardly the same as what was described (and it is unfortunate the poster had to mention that a couple was mixed race or lesbian, for that matter).

Those suggesting the parent should have more control of their children obviously don't have kids. She could have gone into the bathroom and had this happen. Someone suggested unplugging the TV - in my experience most TVs are hard-wired into the walls of hotels. Should she have pulled the cord out of the wall and damaged the property?

As for the excuse that it's far more tolerated in Europe, again in my experience growing up in one of the most sexually liberated countries, children still don't see porn. They see topless women; they see naked people on the beach; they learn that sex is as natural as anything else. They don't watch oral sex at age 5 or 8. The more sexual shows don't begin until 11 p.m. or midnight. This was apparently pay-per-view and not what most Europeans would have in their homes.

There's even a proposal now that would ban sexist or raunchy images on television or in advertising across the European Union that's being considered in Brussels. So this is not just a puritanical US thing.

The hotel should have had a blocking feature.



[This message has been edited by letiole (edited 07-26-2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by letiole:
Those suggesting the parent should have more control of their children obviously don't have kids. She could have gone into the bathroom and had this happen. Someone suggested unplugging the TV - in my experience most TVs are hard-wired into the walls of hotels. Should she have pulled the cord out of the wall and damaged the property?</font>

With all due respect, I have to disagree. Being a parent myself, I strongly believe it's a parent's responsibility to control what their kids are watching, be it on TV, in printed media, or online. And sex is actually somewhat low on my list of worries, the incredible amount of violence and blood on regular channels at home is a much bigger problem, IMO.

If unplugging TV is not possible (I haven't seen that problem myself so far, but I take it that you have), then there is another simple solution. Buy a special kid's remote and carry it with you. It allows you to program it to operate just about any brand of TV and lets you select up to 6 channels that your kids are allowed to watch.

But I believe we are veering off-topic here, as this discussion has nothing to do with Hilton...

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">With all due respect, I have to disagree. Being a parent myself, I strongly believe it's a parent's responsibility to control what their kids are watching, be it on TV, in printed media, or online.</font>

While I basically agree with you, we're talking about being in a foreign city where kids are flipping TV channels looking for cartoons (obviously they wouldn't know the channel in advance if there was one for cartoons) and come across porn.

As for the remote you mention I've never heard of it, but sounds like a good idea.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by letiole:
While I basically agree with you, we're talking about being in a foreign city where kids are flipping TV channels looking for cartoons (obviously they wouldn't know the channel in advance if there was one for cartoons) and come across porn.</font>

That's exactly the reason why kids should not be allowed to flip the channels on their own, without an adult in the room. An old-fashioned "no" works wonders, if parents use it appropriately.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by letiole:
As for the remote you mention I've never heard of it, but sounds like a good idea. </font>

The Weemote (http://www.weemote.com/products.html). FWIW, we have one.

Poster asking for thoughts on writing a letter to the hotel or something else has turned this thread into a plitical forum. All of a sudden you read about the left and right wings, republicans and democrats, etc.
You have to love this freedom that we have.
I say, write a letter but don't get your hopes too high that they will change. It is a hotel in a foreign country that caters to a large client base, with predominance on Europeans. If the children are curious enough, they can get it someplace else... no matter how much supervision and guidance is given. There will always be peer pressure and good old curiosity.

They will probably see it soon anyway. Explain to them what it was.

[This message has been edited by fromYYZ_flyer (edited 07-26-2003).]

How on earth is a "kids remote" going to stop them from pressing the buttons on the TV itself? All TVs I've seen have buttons for on/off and channel change and volume change. Are the kids just too lazy in this case to get up and actually go to the TV to change the channel?

Really, this is NOT a problem with the hotel. It's a problem of parental responsibility.

[I just looked and found the remote at weemote.com. This is based on the idiotic "v-chip" that the U.S.Guvmint requires in newer TVs. I doubt it's in place anywhere else in the world.]

IMHO, the problem is a forced US government/religious mind-manipulation that has placed a regulation of pictures of sex as if it is a deterrant to prosperity. Parental responsibility is made to look flawed because many parents forget they were kids once doing *exactly* the same thing. Back in the days of broadcast Pay Per View (called "Preview") that was scrambled, I could still descramble the broadcast, right in my bedroom or the living room by adjusting the TV tuner during the late nights when everyone was asleep. No sound, but plenty of hardcore sex!

So what if kids flip through TV channels.

I`m glad the parent wasn`t in the USA. That way, anything she has to say as a complaint on this issue goes right into the waste paper basket.

More T&A, less Jason-X! No offence, USA, but T&A with censoring is an insult to American intelligence.

[This message has been edited by SHADO (edited 07-27-2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by xyzzy:
I just looked and found the remote at weemote.com. This is based on the idiotic "v-chip" that the U.S.Guvmint requires in newer TVs. I doubt it's in place anywhere else in the world.</font>

Absolutely not. Read it carefully and you will see that it has nothing to do with the V-chip.

Leaving the issues of pornography and parental responsibility aside for a moment, can we put this in perspective as a service issue?

A person was unhappy with something in their room. They complained to the front desk. The front desk said there is nothing that could be done. I think that is a serious problem and a letter should be written and compensation granted.

When you are staying in a full service hotel it is not unreasonable to expect full service. That view is commonly expressed in this forum. For example, off hand I can recall people saying that they always request feather pillows, that they insist the mini bar is emptied prior to their arrival, and, most recently, that the hotel should supply enough soap and shampoo for two adults to take three showers a day.

The soap issue (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum57/HTML/008250.html) has some interesting parallels to the topic of this thread, as it was also discussed as a cultural difference (USA v. France). But it was never suggested by anyone in that thread that the poster should "do as the Romans", even though I think an argument could be made that the requirement was unreasonable. I thought of posting my opinion on this but changed my mind, thinking that if they want all that soap and shampoo, they should get it, as crazy as it seems to me.

Likewise, in this case, even if the channels couldn't be restricted (and as a technologist I find that very hard to believe), then alternatives should have been offered to the customer. If the solution was to pull the plug, then the hotel should have done so for the customer, taking the power cord out of the room if necessary. But if that wasn't good enough, then the hotel should have offered to remove the television all together.

Be it soap, shampoo, pornography, or pillows, don't let your personal feelings cloud the issue, and that issue is service.

[This message has been edited by Rut Dog (edited 07-28-2003).]

Well said Rut Dog. I also did not want to get involved in a philosophical or religious debate (which this was thread was aimining)on a Hilton Forum. There are plenty of those type of debates (for those that enjoy them) at the Omni Forum. Every chain (except one) has had the porno channels for quite some time.
The bottom line is that hotels,when possible, should always give the best service for all its guests. And a good percentage of their guests (I'll go out on a limb and say throughout the world)prefer that the use of these channels be controlled by the person paying for the room.
While I think there are some valid argumrents for parental responsibility, this is still an issue of good service.

Rut Dog http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/thumbsup.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Eugene:
Absolutely not. Read it carefully and you will see that it has nothing to do with the V-chip.</font>

Okay -- so how does this thing prevent kids from getting up and pressing the buttons on the TV?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by MileTex:
Well what the kids saw was explicit anal sex between a biracial couple on one channel and two lesbians fully nude in a 69 position on the other channel. Hate to be so blunt but thats what the kids saw.

[This message has been edited by MileTex (edited 07-24-2003).]</font>


Coming to MileTex's defense here--I did not read anywhere in this response where (s)he made a value judgement regarding the fact that the couple was biracial or lesbian. MileTex was answering a question about how the parents knew that it was hard core porn that the kids saw. Answering very specifically as (s)he did helps me to understand that the kids didn't just see a bare breast or two, but saw and remembered well enough to describe in detail what I don't think any of us disagree from the description is hard core porn.

It kind of reminds me of the Sinefeld episode where anytime one of the charactors mentioned the FACT that someone was gay, they felt the need to follow it with "not that there is anything wrong with that."

It seems some have gotten so sensitive that by simply stating the FACT that someone is gay, or that a biracial or lesbian couple was seen, the speaker is automatically assumed to be prejudice even if no value judgement was made.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by xyzzy:
Okay -- so how does this thing prevent kids from getting up and pressing the buttons on the TV?</font>

Please, don't be ridiculous. letiole got it right - kids were just flipping the channels looking for cartoons, they were not trying to find porn or violence! Weemote just lets them go directly to those channels without the risk of encountering something else on the way. Nothing more, nothing less.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Rut Dog:
Leaving the issues of pornography and parental responsibility aside for a moment, can we put this in perspective as a service issue? </font>

Without necessarily subscribing to the same point of view on this particular incident, I believe that Rut Dog is raising a very important issue here: what is reasonable to expect from a hotel's management when it comes to customer's requests? IMHO, it deserves a separate thread, not sure in which forum though, as this issue is not unique to any particular brand or hotel family.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by xyzzy:
Okay -- so how does this thing prevent kids from getting up and pressing the buttons on the TV?</font>

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ac/elite:
While there is no question that there is a more liberal attitude towards nudity and sex in Europe, these children were not watching simple nudity, but hard core porn. I doubt too many Europeans would want their own young children watching that. So, "when in Rome..." isn't really relevent to the situation at hand. If she was just complaining about some simple nudity, I would agree that the "when in Rome" argument would hold.</font>



------------------

I agree with letiole- "previews" with that much..uh..detail.. should not be freely available. I have a 19-year old son and he's had a pretty laid-back upbringing- when he was 12 and I showed him how to use a Search engine to find video game hints I knew what he'd type in next.. and I found it in the History file. (He was horrified.) My husband and I like to sample the "in-room entertainment" when we travel- no big deal.

But I would not have expected my son, at the age of 8 or 10, to find that type of action while flipping channels in a hotel room. The hotel staff reaction is BS. If the hotel chain told the TV company they wouldn't accept transmissions with unblocked porn they'd find a way to get rid of it. Trust me.

I won't make a judgement on what the hotel should do or not.

That being said, a 10 year old boy may or may not have been surfing for cartoons. I know at 11 I had surrptitiously figured out the password to access the porn channels on satellite, and sleep over's at my place were very popular http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif (this was before the internet)

My parents were fairly open, and it probably wasn't the best thing for me, but to think a 10 year old boy is only interested in cartoons is a little shortsighted.

All this talk about what's right and wrong, what's European and American, what's closed minded and open, aren't doing any good.

The issue at hand NOW, is what to do with your young sons who live in an area where they are expected to not be exposed to some subjects, and how to prepare them for the return to the US and interfacing with their friends.

I'd have a heart to heart talk to them about the subject, and explain the appropiateness of it. I'd let them know that at their age, exposure to sex is prohibited just like alcohol and tobacco. Explain that the exposure to any of those things come with concenquences that they may not fully appreciate untill they are older.

Same advice for those at the homefront with computer browsers, Playboy collections, the home bar, the gun cabinet, etc...

It's different in Europe. Thank goodness.