Avis - Rental Insurance: Myth or Fact?

O.K., I've done many searches and have seen a few threads discussing rental insurance, but I've yet to find a thread describing what rental insurance do I really need to have to gain full or practically full coverage. My main concern being the high dollar scenarios.

I'm tired of giving the rental agency representative that stupid dear in the headlights look when they ask me if I'd like to purchase the supplemental car insurance.

I used to work for a large company, as such it wasn't an issue, now I'm with a smaller company that doesn't provide the same travel coverage. Please advise.

Myths or Facts?

Master Card or visa signature credit card for insurance is all you really need. (M or F)

CC's don't immediately take care of insurance claims which can put the customer in a lerch leaving them to pay large sums of money. Say 10k+ What happens if you can't pay in the interim, how long can these unpaid balances go for?(M or F)

CC plans simply don't provide enough coverage. (M or F)

In the case of a car accident, cancel the cc to avoid automatic charges by the rental company. (M or F)

Don't bother canceling the card, they can still charge you because the number was valid at the time of the contract. Why can they can even to this? (M or F)

CC rental insurance isn't sufficient, it only covers a few scenarios and not enough. (M or F)

Rental companies are suckering you in to buy rental car insurance,not enough value add, you don't need any of it, rely on the CC and your own car insurance policy. (M or F)

It's better to buy the rental insurance to avoid an impact on your personal car insurance (M or F)

Any input on the subject would be greatly appreciated, I'm happy to see references to existing threads that answer these questions.

Regards,

Mike

This is not as simple as your phrased the questions. For example, there are very few credit cards that provide "true primary" (primary in all cases) collision coverage. Lumping all credit cards into one Myth or Fact question therefore makes no sense IMHO.

Next, it may be country specific. The country you live in, and the country you're renting in.

Next, it may depend on the particulars of your own auto insurance policy.

Next, on work-related rentals, you need to figure out whose insurance policy aplies (if the credit card coverage doesn't), yours or your employers?

I have never to date rented a car for work-related stuff. (The very few business trips I've ever taken were to conferences or conventions where I wans't renting a car.)

With that said:

I live in the US (and have car insurance for my own car as well as domestic rentals), and when renting in the US and certain other countries (where LDW can be completely declined), I use Avis Preferred / First with the collision coverage declined and use my Diners Club card (which has long had "always primary" colliision insurance). I even put with the 3% forex charege on this card because of that coverage.

Having said that, there are other countries where (because of the roads, the drivers, or whatever) I prefer to rent with the coverage included. In that case, the card I use doesn't matter.

Finally, I've run into at least one country (Hungary) where they auto-charged me for a rock hitting the car, and never gave me the opportunity to have it biled to my credit card (and never provided clear enough billing info for me to submit it to my credit card). So I'll have to watch out for that auto-billling on damages clause in the future (overseas it may vary from country to country).

Oh, btw, one final thing, as this thread (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/avis/1302784-ldw-included.html) documents, you can someitmes rent an Avis car (you did post this in the Avis forum!) by reserving at the "right" country-specific Avis site (instead of your home country Avis site) for less money yet with more insurance coverage included! So it's not necessarily as simple as saying "including insurance coverage costs more"; sometimes it does but sometimes it doesn't!

(I also found in the past the sometimes renting a car thorugh an airlines "vacation packcage" cost less than renting it separately from the flight, and also included all insurances.)

However, please note that I have the flexibility of renting at whatever web site I want for each rental because all my rentals are personal. Not all people renting for work have these options, some must use a specific corporate travel site.

This is not as simple as your phrased the questions. For example, there are very few credit cards that provide "true primary" (primary in all cases) collision coverage. Lumping all credit cards into one Myth or Fact question therefore makes no sense IMHO.

Next, it may be country specific. The country you live in, and the country you're renting in.

Next, it may depend on the particulars of your own auto insurance policy.

Next, on work-related rentals, you need to figure out whose insurance policy aplies (if the credit card coverage doesn't), yours or your employers?

I have never to date rented a car for work-related stuff. (The very few business trips I've ever taken were to conferences or conventions where I wans't renting a car.)

I understand what you're saying, please forgive my ignorance. I don't expect there to be a simple answer based on the conflicting info. I've read on different threads. I have access to both MC World and Visa Signature. I'm renting in the continental US from AVIS. It would be nice to know which cards offer what level of protection. :) I suppose I'll have to add dinners to the list.


With that said:

I live in the US (and have car insurance for my own car as well as domestic rentals), and when renting in the US and certain other countries (where LDW can be completely declined), I use Avis Preferred / First with the collision coverage declined and use my Diners Club card (which has long had "always primary" colliision insurance). I even put with the 3% forex charege on this card because of that coverage.

Having said that, there are other countries where (because of the roads, the drivers, or whatever) I prefer to rent with the coverage included. In that case, the card I use doesn't matter.

Finally, I've run into at least one country (Hungary) where they auto-charged me for a rock hitting the car, and never gave me the opportunity to have it biled to my credit card (and never provided clear enough billing info for me to submit it to my credit card). So I'll have to watch out for that auto-billling on damages clause in the future (overseas it may vary from country to country).

Oh, btw, one final thing, as this thread (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/avis/1302784-ldw-included.html) documents, you can someitmes rent an Avis car (you did post this in the Avis forum!) by reserving at the "right" country-specific Avis site (instead of your home country Avis site) for less money yet with more insurance coverage included! So it's not necessarily as simple as saying "including insurance coverage costs more"; sometimes it does but sometimes it doesn't!

(I also found in the past the sometimes renting a car thorugh an airlines "vacation packcage" cost less than renting it separately from the flight, and also included all insurances.)

However, please note that I have the flexibility of renting at whatever web site I want for each rental because all my rentals are personal. Not all people renting for work have these options, some must use a specific corporate travel site.

Thanks for sharing your experiences. I happen to have the flexibility to use any site I like, we don't have a specific company travel group, it would be nice to know what to look for in these cases. All of the insurance paperwork just makes my head hurt, I don't know what I really need to look. It would be nice if there was some sort of cheat sheet.

I found a decent one here http://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/2011/rental-car-insurance-credit-card/

Regards,

Mike

OP where do you live and where do you usually rent (US OR FOREIGN)?

How many rentals per year more or less?

Do you own an automobile and have insurance on it?

What is your age?

When I rent cars I never take any extra insurance. My insurance covers rental cars the same as if I'm driving my own.

OP where do you live and where do you usually rent (US OR FOREIGN)?

How many rentals per year more or less?

Do you own an automobile and have insurance on it?

What is your age?

US
Just a few time, but this is variable
Yes I have a car and insurance.
I'm in my 30's

Mike

If you are a US resident your car insurance should follow you in any car rental. If you are a New York resident it is required that your car insurance cover any rentals in the U.S.

That is where I would start is with your car insurance company. See if they give you full coverage on car rentals. They probably do already. If not ask how much it would cost per year. If you feel safe driving your car with the company you have then that company should be adequate for a rental anywhere in the U.S. Some policies even waive the deductible on rental cars
IIRC


Your insurance company will negotiate with the car rental company as to charges etc. In case of accident your car insurance companies information will be given to the rental company by you. Then the rental company should not charge your CC and if it does you can then protest the charge.

This assumes you want to take the time to inspect the vehicle before leaving the lot and making sure all dings etc are documented. If you do not want to take the time then buy the waiver.

Some policies even waive the deductible on rental cars IIRC
First of all, many don't. But that's not necessarily even the major issue.

If you have a "collision" that doesn't require a police report and that doesn't involve another vehicle, handling the insurance through a credit card or through the LDW offered by the car rental outfit, that "collision" does not go on your insurance record and does not increase your rates. If it's handled by your insurance company, though, it does go on your insurance record and may well increase your rates (especially you have a "good driver" kind of discount).

There are two factors that make "collisions" that need fixing more likely to happen with a rental car than with your own car.

1. Your own car, if you get a scrape or dent or there, you may not care enough to fix it each time. On the rental car, however, the rental company will charge you each time.

2. The area you're driving / parking the rental car in is more likley to have hazards that you're not familiar with from the driving you do back home.

For example, one "collision" I had was scraping a construction barrier to the right of the rightmost lane which suddenly shifted but that wasn't clear to me. (And it was right as I was leaving the rental place and getting on the highway, so I was a bit preoccupied with figuring out where to go.) I'm not likely to have that kind of "collision" at home, but OTOH I may not choose to fix a scrape to the side of my own car anyway, depending on the severity.

For another example, I had a rock pierce hit the front of the car and cause a hole in a plastic sub-bumper thingie. My own car doesn't have any cheap plastic there, but this rental car did. So sometimes the nature of the "collision" is specific to "limitations" of the rental car design!

The biggest one: I hit a deer with a rented SUV while coming back from Yellowstone into Grand Teton park at dusk. The stupid deer jumped into my lane as I swerved to avoid it. Whlie this did involve a police report, if only because it was $3000+ damage, it still didn't get back to my insurance company because I didn't name my own insurance company on the pollice report, just the insruance company provided by the credit card. (It was a police report filed by mail, and I never was contacted for further information. Although hitting a deer is an oddball event for me living in coastal urban Los Angeles, I suspect Wyoming police are a bit more used to it.)

I'm pretty sure that if I had had my own insurance company cover all of these, it first of all would have cost me more in deductibles, but second of all it would have likely increased my insurance rates later (by negating my "good driver" discount).

In the case of a car accident, cancel the cc to avoid automatic charges by the rental company. (M or F)


This is credit card fraud and can land you in jail. In return for them giving you a car you give them a CC and allow them to charge it according to the terms of the rental contract. Don't sign the document if you don't like the terms.

S.

SDSEARCH

[EDITED]. I am assuming that most people pay attention and try to drive sanly. You should not have more accidents away from home than at home. Most accidents occur near your home.

Yes using your insurance will put the accident on your record. So what that is what you pay a premium for.

I never get he car rental insurance and I pay insurance already I just do not see paying for a product twice.

But I am willing to use my insurance.
The OP wanted to know what insurance "HE REALLY NEEDS" I am sure you will agree that if he has his own insurance he doesn't really need the car companies. He may choose it but he doesn't need it. That is the point I was speaking too. You are relating reasons why you choose the car rental waivers not why you NEED the waivers. Unless you are saying your driving habits deteriorate so much when you rent a car you need to protect your car insurance policy from cancellation. But perhaps that is another problem.

SDSEARCH

...
The OP wanted to know what insurance "HE REALLY NEEDS" I am sure you will agree that if he has his own insurance he doesn't really need the car companies. He may choose it but he doesn't need it. ...
Darben,

I appreciate your input, and it's a reasonable thing to assume.

However, I have to say I'm with sdsearch on his point. I'd like to avoid having the accident on my record increasing my premiums if possible. If this can be done for a minimal amount of money, then it's worth it.

Driving in unfamiliar conditions does make it more challenging than driving at home. While it's true most accidents happen at home, I'd say it's due to frequency and not conditions.

Mike

Darben,

I appreciate your input, and it's a reasonable thing to assume.

However, I have to say I'm with sdsearch on his point. I'd like to avoid having the accident on my record increasing my premiums if possible. If this can be done for a minimal amount of money, then it's worth it.

Driving in unfamiliar conditions does make it more challenging than driving at home. While it's true most accidents happen at home, I'd say it's due to frequency and not conditions.

Mike

Not to be a PIA but then this makes your whole post pointless. You are not looking for what is necessary you are trying to determine your comfort level.
No discussion can determine that since it is a personal decision.
Your response to my post tells me you have already determined that you want to take the insurance. It should not be a question of cost though. IF your more comfortable with the LDW when LDW cost $10.00 per day why would you be comfortable with your insurance when LDW is more expensive let us say $20.00 per day.

Not to be a PIA but then this makes your whole post pointless. You are not looking for what is necessary you are trying to determine your comfort level.
No discussion can determine that since it is a personal decision.
Your response to my post tells me you have already determined that you want to take the insurance. It should not be a question of cost though. IF your more comfortable with the LDW when LDW cost $10.00 per day why would you be comfortable with your insurance when LDW is more expensive let us say $20.00 per day.

Part of the issue here is my ignorance regarding rental insurance. My initial question was really more along the lines of "Does a high end credit card essentially covers all of my rental car insurance needs?" I read a lot of conflicting information regarding this, it looks like the answer is no, it covers only one type of insurance scenario.

I now realize it's more complicated that that, the CC coverage only provides partial coverage, the question becomes do I want to use my personal car insurance to cover the other insurance scenarios, or spend extra $$$ to get the rental company provided insurance.

It's more about best bang for the buck thinking, which happens to take into consideration some level of risk acceptance, if that makes sense.

My take away, use VISA Signature card to reduce insurance exposure, but for the rest of it,you end up either using your own car insurance coverage or pay the extra dollars for the rental company provided option, with the reasoning that if you don't want a potential accident to go on your record go with this option.

Regards,

Mike

Mike

...
There are two factors that make "collisions" that need fixing more likely to happen with a rental car than with your own car.

...

Very good examples of why it might be desireable to have insurance (other than your primary at home) covering you on rentals that are more accident prone. Another reason why accidents could be more likely in rentals is because one is unfamiliar with the vehicle/equipment itself.

I've driven my personal car more than any one rental model (rentals overall are more than my personal car, though..): I know the perimeter of my car very well, I can change almost all options without taking my eyes off the road or other drivers (radio, HVAC, heated seats, cup holders, change for tolls, wipers, cruise, etc, etc), I have blind-spot mirrors to help me see without turning my head, I've had lots of time to find that "just so" spot with my seat/mirrors that I am very comfortable, and I know my home area roads VERY well. This often isn't the case with rentals and I can easily become distracted. For these reasons, I have a card that provides primary insurance for rentals.

For these reasons, I have a card that provides primary insurance for rentals.

Would you mind sharing which type of card that is?

Would you mind sharing which type of card that is?

Continental Presidental Plus Mastercard. It's expensive, but since I have a lifetime membership to the Presidents (err, United) Club, it's $100/yr.

Continental Presidental Plus Mastercard. It's expensive, but since I have a lifetime membership to the Presidents (err, United) Club, it's $100/yr.Amex also has a program for many of its cards that provides primary coverage for $25 per rental. I use that for peace of mind.

I had a chipped windshield once on a Hertz rental in LA. I reported it when I turned in the car, and I expected Hertz to collect for the damage, so I filed a claim with Amex. The Amex reps were very professional and easy to work with. I had all the paperwork ready to go with Amex once I received the claim from Hertz.

But Hertz never filed a claim.

I also have the Continental PP card, but haven't used it for any personal rentals. I believe one of the other Continental cards with a lower annual fee also offered the primary coverage for free, but haven't checked lately to see if that is still the case.

David

SDSEARCH

You driving record is horrid. I am assuming that most people pay attention and try to drive sanly. You should not have more accidents away from home than at home. Most accidents occur near your home.

Yes using your insurance will put the accident on your record. So what that is what you pay a premium for.

I never get he car rental insurance and I pay insurance already I just do not see paying for a product twice.

But I am willing to use my insurance.
The OP wanted to know what insurance "HE REALLY NEEDS" I am sure you will agree that if he has his own insurance he doesn't really need the car companies. He may choose it but he doesn't need it. That is the point I was speaking too. You are relating reasons why you choose the car rental waivers not why you NEED the waivers. Unless you are saying your driving habits deteriorate so much when you rent a car you need to protect your car insurance policy from cancellation. But perhaps that is another problem.
2 accidents in 10 years in about 100k miles of driving, one of which is a scrape and one of which unavoidable in the wilderness is a horrid driving record???

(The third "collision" was rock damage from something presumably a vehicle in front of me, or my rental's own wheels maybe, threw up. That has nothing to do with driving record, but it can have to with where you drive. I know someone who drives regularly on one road in Alabama, and complaints about almost every time rocks hitting the windshield. That is bad driving record too?!? :confused:)

And, no, niether of these was reported to my insurance company. (And it's been several years now, so if not be now, when??? :confused:)


Driving sanely is relative. If you've never driven anywhere in the remote north Rockies on a lonely unlit two-lane road, how can you know what is "sane" (in terms of not being possibly able to hit a deer)? I was already driving slower than the speed limit, but confusing lights (that looked like they were from oncoming traffic just around the corner but turned out to be from something off to the side of the road) made me dim my high-beams (as I've been taught to do from other parts of the country) right before those high-beams would have hit the deer. How was I supposed to know that on that road it was more important to leave high-beams on, oncoming traffic or not, than to not blind oncoming traffic?

And I was driving at sane speed for a fixed object. The collision would never have occurred had the deer not jumped into the other lane that I swerved into (as I was braking hard) to avoid it!


I do not pay for insurance twice. I happen to have a card which I would have anyway for other reasons (Diners Club MC) that happens to have one of the best "always primary" car collision insurances in the credit card industry. So all I do is "steer" this card (as opposed to other cards) to all my domestic rentals.

I don't know how much you've rented overseas in different countries, but there can be adiditonal challenges there. Narrow roads in Ireland and Spain, but in Spain they don't have rock walls right where you'd expect the shoulder, but all throughout (at least western central) Ireland they do! And even though I try to drive at very conservative speeds, local people pass may way above the speed limit on tight narrow turns in these cases!

Then there's driving on the "wrong" side of the street. It's one thing to remember which side of the road to get on, but there are other confusing factors, like which way to look / yeild at traffic circles.

I don't understand why you don't such driving situations might not be more challenging than "near home".


I think you misunderstand the "near home" statistic. It is not a statisc specific to frequent travelers. It is a statistic of the general public, most of whom are very infrequent travelers, so by definition most of their driving is "near home"! So all the statisic is pointing out is that you don't need to go far away form home to get in an accident (true). But it is not claiming that the accident rate per miles driven in a location is higher near home than far away (including other countries). That would a separate statistic, which I have no heard.

This statistic is saying the average person drives most of their miles near home, that's where their accidents are most likely to be. But the statistic in not necessarily true for that small fraction of people (a subset of frequent travelers) who drive mostly away from home to begin with!

Amex also has a program for many of its cards that provides primary coverage for $25 per rental. I use that for peace of mind.

I had a chipped windshield once on a Hertz rental in LA. I reported it when I turned in the car, and I expected Hertz to collect for the damage, so I filed a claim with Amex. The Amex reps were very professional and easy to work with. I had all the paperwork ready to go with Amex once I received the claim from Hertz.

But Hertz never filed a claim.

I also have the Continental PP card, but haven't used it for any personal rentals. I believe one of the other Continental cards with a lower annual fee also offered the primary coverage for free, but haven't checked lately to see if that is still the case.

David

Does this mean the CC company covers all of the damage and liability insurance? Or is there more insurance to consider...

Regards,

Mike

Moderator's note: Keep the offensive and off topic comments off of flyertalk. If your comments aren't related to the topic, they are unnecessary.

Insure or not to insure. You take the same bets as you do in Vegas. You could lose, win, or lose big. In the long run you will lose.(someday)

The statement: "Most accidents happen at or near your home" does not mean driving in stranger places are less likely to cause an accident. The only thing the statement qualifies is a law of probabilities. You drive in and out of your "home" at least twice a day. You add all that up and you will more likely get into an accident near your home.

Again this does not mean that when you are somewhere else driving on roads you have never driven is just as safe or less dangerous.

Personally when I rent a car, I use an AMEX with Primary insurance and I also buy the Rental SLI to protect against 3rd party claims. I would rather not have my personal insurance deal with that or risk my rates going up. I don't rent that often so it makes financial sense to me.

If you do rent often then perhaps you should let your personal insurance take the responsibility for all your rentals.

If you don't own a car and have your own liability insurance, you will need to purchase from the car rental company in some states. For instance, in California the car rental companies are not required to provide any liability coverage on the car, the driver/renter is responsible.

Credit cards generally are secondary COLLISION coverage, no liability protections.

Credit cards generally are secondary COLLISION coverage, no liability protections.

Is this true for all cards?

I have looked at the agreement for my just-received Capital One platinum. Indeed, it covers only the rental car.

It does not seem to cover someone else's car or the liability.

I've looked around the 'net trying to see what happens if you get into an accident you cause....is that covered by the credit card?

I don't have a car nor do I have car insurance. So finding a card to cover me completely when I rent is essential. I guess I thought I was covered completely, but now I'm wondering if I was or not.

Shockingly, I suspect not....

I don't have a car nor do I have car insurance. So finding a card to cover me completely when I rent is essential. I guess I thought I was covered completely, but now I'm wondering if I was or not.
Avis Preferred ( / First / etc) allows you to set up decline / accept in 4 separate categories on your Avis Wizard account. Only one or two (collision and perhaps theft) of these categories are covered by your card (if you can completely decline the Avis coverage on your rental, which isn't easily the case in some countries!).

So the safe thing to do, until/unless you find our own liability/etc insurance, would be to set your account to "accept" the categories other than collision and theft. (In many countries, they're mandatory or auto-included anyway.)

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Credit cards generally are secondary COLLISION coverage, no liability protections.

Is this true for all cards?

I have looked at the agreement for my just-received Capital One platinum. Indeed, it covers only the rental car.

It does not seem to cover someone else's car or the liability.

I've looked around the 'net trying to see what happens if you get into an accident you cause....is that covered by the credit card?

I don't have a car nor do I have car insurance. So finding a card to cover me completely when I rent is essential. I guess I thought I was covered completely, but now I'm wondering if I was or not.

Shockingly, I suspect not....

If you rent frequently and are not content with the rather minimal basic liability protection offered by car-rental companies in most states (California being a notable exception), consider obtaining a non-owned-auto liability insurance policy. I pay about $135/year for $500,000 coverage.

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If you rent frequently and are not content with the rather minimal basic liability protection offered by car-rental companies in most states (California being a notable exception), consider obtaining a non-owned-auto liability insurance policy. I pay about $135/year for $500,000 coverage.

What company do you get your non owners through?

The statement: "Most accidents happen at or near your home" does not mean driving in stranger places are less likely to cause an accident. The only thing the statement qualifies is a law of probabilities. You drive in and out of your "home" at least twice a day. You add all that up and you will more likely get into an accident near your home.


Exactly! And, then, we could start discussing conditional probabilities but that would go over most people's heads in our math-challenged country.;)

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Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8530/5.0.0.1030 Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/417)



If you rent frequently and are not content with the rather minimal basic liability protection offered by car-rental companies in most states (California being a notable exception), consider obtaining a non-owned-auto liability insurance policy. I pay about $135/year for $500,000 coverage.

What company do you get your non owners through?

Travelers, through the Campbell Solberg agency in Manhattan.

Is this true for all cards?


No, some cards provide primary collision insurance up to actual value of the car, but those policies may not cover everything (medical payments, or other liability claims)...a few cards do offer more comprehensive primary coverage. Also, they may not cover rentals in certain countries (Ireland and New Zealand come to mind). From what I've seen, all of these also have limits on the number of contiguous rental days covered.

IMHO, it is sensible for someone without car insurance to get a non-owned policy and layer that with the secondary coverages provided by a credit card.


And, no, niether of these was reported to my insurance company.


A humble suggestion (general comment, not directed at anyone) - in many cases, wildlife strikes, rocks to windshields, and hit-and-run collision with your parked (unoccupied) car will not count as an "accident", nor raise your rates. I realize that policies can vary between companies and location...I would encourage people to thoroughly go through their Ts and Cs, and contact their insurance agent with any questions. It is good to know the dynamics of your coverage, including how it plays with secondary coverage, before an incident occurs.

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If you rent frequently and are not content with the rather minimal basic liability protection offered by car-rental companies in most states (California being a notable exception), consider obtaining a non-owned-auto liability insurance policy. I pay about $135/year for $500,000 coverage.

That's great advice, thanks for posting!

I don't rent very often (and now have a good reason not to do so at all:), so maybe I'll just buy the IDL or someone mentioned a $25 per rental from AMEX.

It seems like this info should be documented somewhere....any idea of a good place to put it? There isn't a flyertalk wiki is there? Scouring posts is always such an adventure...

[QUOTE=ryandelmundo;18452671] or someone mentioned a $25 per rental from AMEX. QUOTE]

The AmEx per-rental coverage is good ($75k collision, $75k AD&D, $2k per person property, $7.5k per person excess medical) for $19.95. The failing is that it only covers the car and those in it, so it doesn't cover damage to other parties, eg: damage to another car in an at-fault accident, or medical payments to a pedestrian if you hit them.

[QUOTE=ryandelmundo;18452671] or someone mentioned a $25 per rental from AMEX. QUOTE]

The AmEx per-rental coverage is good ($75k collision, $75k AD&D, $2k per person property, $7.5k per person excess medical) for $19.95. The failing is that it only covers the car and those in it, so it doesn't cover damage to other parties, eg: damage to another car in an at-fault accident, or medical payments to a pedestrian if you hit them.

Correct, so you'd still need to get non-owner's liability insurance from a provider like Traveler's or Geico.

[QUOTE=HookemHorns;18457846]

Correct, so you'd still need to get non-owner's liability insurance from a provider like Traveler's or Geico.

Good to know. Seems impossible to use just a credit card for rentals if you have no insurance at all. I wonder how many folks understand that? We all tend to believe what we want, and the CC's like to say, "Use our card get covered on your rental."

There have to be some stories out there of bad things happening...anyone heard any? Or does just about everyone have car insurance anyway?

Seems impossible to use just a credit card for rentals if you have no insurance at all. I wonder how many folks understand that? We all tend to believe what we want, and the CC's like to say, "Use our card get covered on your rental."

There have to be some stories out there of bad things happening...anyone heard any? Or does just about everyone have car insurance anyway?
No, you're getting confused.

Whether you use the credit card for collision and/or theft only (which is all they cover) is completely independent of how you solve or dont' solve the other types of coverage.

See, there is no difference between using a credit card for collison and/or theft coverage only, and paying the rental car company for collsion and/or theft coverage only. Either way, you are either covered for liability (because liability is always included in that country), or you are not covered for liability. But whether you used your card for collision/theft doesn't affect whether you're covered for liability.

When I rent in other countries (than my home country of USA), liability is often shown as "not available", which presumably means it's included by law or something like that. If you're based in Indonesia, I don't know, however, if it works the same for you went you rent in the USA. (As someone based in the USA, when I rent in the USA, liability is something I've declined, because it's covered my auto insurance company. If, based in the USA, I didn't have car insurance, say because I lived and worked in a city with real public transportation and astronomical parking rates, then I couldn't decline liability on rentals in the USA.

It may, further, depend on which Avis site you book at. It's been explained in other threads that booking a rental in Ireland on avis.com (the USA site) doesn't include most insurance, booking the same rental in Ireland on avis.ie (the Irish site) often includes all insurance and yet may even cost less.

Finally, in case you're not aware, many people who do have insurance, still don't have coverage outside their own country or region! My car insurance covers me in USA/Canada and I think maybe Mexico too, but it does not cover me on any other contienents. I suspect a lot of people have insurance with such limitations. (At my insurance company, I'd have to add homeowner or renter insurance, and then once I had two types of insurance with the same company, I could add a "global rider" which would extend my car insurance overseas. But I can't do that without buying two types of insurance from my insurance company!)

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"If, based in the USA, I didn't have car insurance, say because I lived and worked in a city with real public transportation and astronomical parking rates, then I couldn't decline liability on rentals in the USA."

Sure you could, as long as you were renting in a state other than California. It might not be prudent to do so, especially if you had substantial assets, because the minimum state liability coverage that the car-rental companies provide in every state other than California is paltry. (In California, it's zero.) But I'm sure that plenty of people without insurance decline the SLI coverage everyday.

[SIZE=1]"If, based in the USA, I didn't have car insurance, say because I lived and worked in a city with real public transportation and astronomical parking rates, then I couldn't decline liability on rentals in the USA."

Sure you could, as long as you were renting in a state other than California. It might not be prudent to do so, especially if you had substantial assets, because the minimum state liability coverage that the car-rental companies provide in every state other than California is paltry. (In California, it's zero.) But I'm sure that plenty of people without insurance decline the SLI coverage everyday.
Well, ok, sorry, that's what I meant. I couldn't because I don't feel "safe' doing something so not prudcent. Somebody else less risk-averse than me could, perhaps.