oneworld - Is oneworld alliance going to die!!!

Oneworld alliance really seems to be in trouble

American airlines-Bankrupt and is now third largest in the US

Qantas - seem to be committing suicide pulling out if so many routes including Auckland LA and London to Hong Kong and Bangkok,Jetstar seems to be taking over their many routes and people here in NZ are speculating that jetstar will take over Auckland to LA.Qantas is also not keen on adding new destination or expanding and seem to try their best to not work with Cathay but against them by not code sharing with them and suggesting a jetstar hong kong

Malaysia airlines , joining soon but its not doing well with Air asia and Singapore airlines competition , it still ahs not been able to make a profit and is just cutting routes like crazy especially to the middle east.

Air Berlin just got saved by etihad really and lufthansa have the edge in Germany

Royal Jordanian- really tiny and their fleet expansion land and route expansion are minuscule compared to their gigantic neighbours

Malev-well it does not operate anymore will most likely leave alliance

Mexicana- is dead is going to leave the alliance soon

Kingfisher- It is so sad that they are in such a horrible position they are India's best airline and entrance into oneworld would have helped them a lot and become a stronger airline also oneworld could have established itself and a brand in India

British Airways Iberia seem to be doing okay but not as great as expected .

Cathay is probably doing the best of the lot has strong growth and high profits, it may leave oneworld.

But the alliance really cannot just have one or two surviving or healthy airlines

Latam may go to star hope it stays with oneworld but with all the other members falling apart them may decide to move.

Jal yay!! the other good story now apart from Cathay they seem to be on track to return to their former glory .

China not one member due to Cathay block of Hainan, seems fair though If hainan wanted to enter oneworld, buying and establishing and airline to compete against and become the main airline in another one world airlines home market is really not a smart idea!! (hong kong airlines already hate them I really do not want to see cathay go kaput because of them, and because they are Chinese owned they do not have to pay EU carbon tax so its really quite unfair competition>

Compare this to star which has United and lufthansa to huge airlines along with airchina and so many other huge airlines

or even skyteam with delta and Airfrance, Korean air and China eastern and southern



So is there a future for oneworld?? I give it just a few years.

By the way oneworld is my favourite alliance but they do not seem to be managing their airlines well or attracting airlines with string balance sheets

Kingfisher- It is so sad that they are in such a horrible position they are India's best airline and entrance into oneworld would have helped them a lot and become a stronger airline also oneworld could have established itself and a brand in India
By no metric are they the best airline in India, nor have they ever been close.

Kingfisher's loss last quarter of almost $100 million pretty much means that they can't afford to keep operating for much longer, forget about joining oneworld anytime soon.
Latam may go to star hope it stays with oneworld but with all the other members falling apart them may decide to move.

Why LATAM Is Practically Guaranteed To Join OneWorld Alliance (http://aeroblogger.com/home/blog/why-latam-is-practically-guaranteed-to-join-oneworld-alliance/)

By no metric are they the best airline in India, nor have they ever been close.

Kingfisher's loss last quarter of almost $100 million pretty much means that they can't afford to keep operating for much longer, forget about joining oneworld anytime soon.

Why LATAM Is Practically Guaranteed To Join OneWorld Alliance (http://aeroblogger.com/2012/01/03/latam-oneworld/)


I mean't they were the best in terms of service at least in the 2005 to 2008 period when we flew them.

In terms of managing their accounts they are pathetic but then so are all the Indian carriers

Oneworld alliance really seems to be in trouble

American airlines-Bankrupt and is now third largest in the USThey are not bankrupt, they are in bankruptcy protection. They will emerge from Chapter 11 slightly smaller, right before they start getting their new short haul fleet of 460 aircraft and will be better placed to compete with UA and DL. Most of the reason they have gone from biggest to third is because UA ate CO and DL ate NW.

Qantas - seem to be committing suicide pulling out if so many routes including Auckland LA and London to Hong Kong and Bangkok,Jetstar seems to be taking over their many routes and people here in NZ are speculating that jetstar will take over Auckland to LA.Qantas is also not keen on adding new destination or expanding and seem to try their best to not work with Cathay but against them by not code sharing with them and suggesting a jetstar hong kongQF and CX not working well together isn't because QF doesn't want to, its CX being CX. It is annoying that JQ appears to be slowly replacing QF, they should be complimenting each other not have the cheaper one eat away at the other. Most of the problems QF has is because of the unions and Australian government. If a few people grew some brains, things should get a bit better. Although some of the actions of the current and previous CEOs have been a bit questionable, the delays to the 787 and A380 haven't helped. QF has added new destinations, DFW and SCL (though at the cost of SFO and EZE). Having JQ/3K join OW would be useful and QF should improve, provided they can survive the next few years.

Kingfisher- It is so sad that they are in such a horrible position they are India's best airline and entrance into oneworld would have helped them a lot and become a stronger airline also oneworld could have established itself and a brand in IndiaAll of India's airlines are having major problems. If the Indian Government doesn't step in and do something soon, most of India's airlines will die. Though the governments ownership of AI doesn't help here.

Cathay is probably doing the best of the lot has strong growth and high profits, it may leave oneworld. Why would CX leave OW?

Latam may go to star hope it stays with oneworld but with all the other members falling apart them may decide to move.Thanks to merger conditions placed on them by the local regulators, Lan and Tam's choices are to go with Oneworld or no one. One regulator said must go with Star or OW, the other said they can't be in the same alliance as Avianca (star).

China not one member due to Cathay block of Hainan, seems fair though If hainan wanted to enter oneworld, buying and establishing and airline to compete against and become the main airline in another one world airlines home market is really not a smart idea!!Hainan's market is not the same as CXs. CX/KA does not operate mainland china domestic flights. HU does. CX doesn't want HU in oneworld because of their connection to HX. The other mainland carriers aren't an option. CX thinks that Chinese domestic pax should just connect through HKG.

Compare this to star which has United and lufthansa to huge airlines along with airchina and so many other huge airlines

or even skyteam with delta and Airfrance, Korean air and China eastern and southernStar Alliance and SkyTeam airlines are having just as many problems as OneWorld carriers.

I mean't they were the best in terms of service at least in the 2005 to 2008 period when we flew them.


Did you fly anybody else? Sure, they were good, but during that time period Indian Airlines and Jet Airways were better. That hasn't changed.

I think they are going to die! One world has had WAY to many problems!

I wrote about the qantas changes here:
<redacted>
And on Feb 3rd I wrote about how these alliances are Jinxed! Both Star and One world but even more so One world!

<redacted>

Oneworld alliance really seems to be in trouble

American airlines-Bankrupt and is now third largest in the US

Qantas - seem to be committing suicide pulling out if so many routes including Auckland LA and London to Hong Kong and Bangkok,Jetstar seems to be taking over their many routes and people here in NZ are speculating that jetstar will take over Auckland to LA.Qantas is also not keen on adding new destination or expanding and seem to try their best to not work with Cathay but against them by not code sharing with them and suggesting a jetstar hong kong

Malaysia airlines , joining soon but its not doing well with Air asia and Singapore airlines competition , it still ahs not been able to make a profit and is just cutting routes like crazy especially to the middle east.

Air Berlin just got saved by etihad really and lufthansa have the edge in Germany

Royal Jordanian- really tiny and their fleet expansion land and route expansion are minuscule compared to their gigantic neighbours

Malev-well it does not operate anymore will most likely leave alliance

Mexicana- is dead is going to leave the alliance soon

Kingfisher- It is so sad that they are in such a horrible position they are India's best airline and entrance into oneworld would have helped them a lot and become a stronger airline also oneworld could have established itself and a brand in India

British Airways Iberia seem to be doing okay but not as great as expected .

Cathay is probably doing the best of the lot has strong growth and high profits, it may leave oneworld.

But the alliance really cannot just have one or two surviving or healthy airlines

Latam may go to star hope it stays with oneworld but with all the other members falling apart them may decide to move.

Jal yay!! the other good story now apart from Cathay they seem to be on track to return to their former glory .

China not one member due to Cathay block of Hainan, seems fair though If hainan wanted to enter oneworld, buying and establishing and airline to compete against and become the main airline in another one world airlines home market is really not a smart idea!! (hong kong airlines already hate them I really do not want to see cathay go kaput because of them, and because they are Chinese owned they do not have to pay EU carbon tax so its really quite unfair competition>

Compare this to star which has United and lufthansa to huge airlines along with airchina and so many other huge airlines

or even skyteam with delta and Airfrance, Korean air and China eastern and southern



So is there a future for oneworld?? I give it just a few years.

By the way oneworld is my favourite alliance but they do not seem to be managing their airlines well or attracting airlines with string balance sheets

You forgot S7

Why LATAM Is Practically Guaranteed To Join OneWorld Alliance (http://aeroblogger.com/2012/01/03/latam-oneworld/)

If LATAM join Oneworld, which is most likely, that would be great for Oneworld, as they would have domination in a growing market.

[QUOTE=rockferd;18032248]I think they are going to die! One world has had WAY to many problems!

I wrote about the qantas changes here:
<redacted>

And on Feb 3rd I wrote about how these alliances are Jinxed! Both Star and One world but even more so One world!

<redacted>I don't mean to be rude, but I wish I could get the 2 minutes I just spent reading that BS back...

To everyone else: don't waste your time reading it...

You forgot S7

And Finnair, which the Finnish government is looking to sell and/or downsize.

hope Hainan would join one world since OW doesn't have domestic options within China.

[QUOTE=rockferd;18032248]I think they are going to die! One world has had WAY to many problems!

I wrote about the qantas changes here:
<redacted>
And on Feb 3rd I wrote about how these alliances are Jinxed! Both Star and One world but even more so One world!

<redacted>
That's right - both OW & *A and horrible and will die soon.
ST is the only good and viable alliance.:D
If you believe that I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale.

I don't mean to be rude, but I wish I could get the 2 minutes I just spent reading that BS back...

To everyone else: don't waste your time reading it...

LOL
+1

Warning, one or two insane ideas here afloat. readers be aware.

Cathay is probably doing the best of the lot has strong growth and high profits, it may leave oneworld.

Yes, I suppose that it could. But is there any realistic possibility? Nah. You have any facts to back this one up?


So is there a future for oneworld?? I give it just a few years.

Nonsense. Pure nonsense.

I don't mean to be rude, but I wish I could get the 2 minutes I just spent reading that BS back...

To everyone else: don't waste your time reading it...

I clicked through to the link and took one look at the background and font colour combination and thought, no thanks.....

Some airlines amongst ST and *A are going through a variety of problems, it is not something unique to OW. However I don't believe it signals their demise anytime in the near future.

i think, OW aren't really going to die.. As..

* BD bought by BA
* JJ merged with LA into LATAM
* (speculation) US will eventually join as they will buy AA's stakes

i think, OW aren't really going to die.. As..

* BD bought by BA
* JJ merged with LA into LATAM
* (speculation) US will eventually join as they will buy AA's stakes

i]Airberlin are about to join.
ii]OW will gain even more status in SE Asia as Malaysia Airlines join.
iii]Kingfisher's problem with IATA clearing house are over, so it just needs to sign an interline agreement with CX and then it will be in Oneworld very soon*, giving OW status in India. While many have been talking about how while the other alliances have status in domestic China which OW doesn't have, OW would have status in domestic India which none of the other alliances have.

* - Kingfisher have other economic problems, which would improve once they join Oneworld, but there is a small, but present possibility that they cease operation temporarily or ground aircraft temporarily, actions which could lead CX to refuse to re-sign the interline agreement. If IT's membership is postponed further than 2012, then it may give up and cease operations permanently, because OW membership in the near future is currently 1 of only 3 hopes that are keeping it alive.

Yes, I suppose that it could. But is there any realistic possibility? Nah. You have any facts to back this one up?




Nonsense. Pure nonsense.

Agreed. While a number of oneworld carriers are hitting a serious rough patch, this is more indicative of the industry as a whole, not just oneworld itself. LATAM is going to be an absolute juggernaut in S. America, while Cathay and JAL will be strong anchors for the Asian front. IAG are one of the few (only?) groups in Europe that are in good shape and in a buying mood. Things will change, but oneworld will still survive.

iii]Kingfisher's problem with IATA clearing house are over, so it just needs to sign an interline agreement with CX and then it will be in Oneworld very soon*, giving OW status in India. While many have been talking about how while the other alliances have status in domestic China which OW doesn't have, OW would have status in domestic India which none of the other alliances have.

* - Kingfisher have other economic problems, which would improve once they join Oneworld, but there is a small, but present possibility that they cease operation temporarily or ground aircraft temporarily, actions which could lead CX to refuse to re-sign the interline agreement. If IT's membership is postponed further than 2012, then it may give up and cease operations permanently, because OW membership in the near future is currently 1 of only 3 hopes that are keeping it alive.

While Kingfisher's issues with the IATA Clearing House are over, I remain convinced that they will never join OW. I gave them 6 months for survival 2 months ago, and I stand by that estimate. In July, this airline will not exist.

While Kingfisher's issues with the IATA Clearing House are over, I remain convinced that they will never join OW. I gave them 6 months for survival 2 months ago, and I stand by that estimate. In July, this airline will not exist.

I guess I do need that address for a deaddiction clinic then, because I still have some hope for it:cool: But I can see what you're saying happening as well.

Agreed. While a number of oneworld carriers are hitting a serious rough patch, this is more indicative of the industry as a whole, not just oneworld itself. LATAM is going to be an absolute juggernaut in S. America, while Cathay and JAL will be strong anchors for the Asian front. IAG are one of the few (only?) groups in Europe that are in good shape and in a buying mood. Things will change, but oneworld will still survive.

+1

The last time I flushed a toilet on BA it made a unique sound. That signaled BA's downfall, and the end of OneWorld as a whole. :p

The last time I flushed a toilet on BA it made a unique sound. That signaled BA's downfall, and the end of OneWorld as a whole. :p
That sound really sucks ... :D

Warning, one or two insane ideas here afloat. readers be aware.
It seems we have been infected by Anutters!:eek:
Really after the OP's first few sentences I stopped reading and then spammer rockfred plugging of that garbage site....:td:

* (speculation) US will eventually join as they will buy AA's stakes

Complete nonsense. About as likely as DL buying UA. :rolleyes:

about DL buying AA, I don't think that's a good idea. The other oneworld members gonna protest on that...

Complete nonsense. About as likely as DL buying UA. :rolleyes:

Attempts were made that had US being worked into a combination with UA during the Clinton Administration. "DC Air" was to be the carve out given to an area business big whig as a way to try to get it approved by the Clinton DoJ. Now US-AA may make more sense as a pursuit than even that aborted combination from two Administrations back.

I doubt that Oneworld is going to die anytime soon, much as I doubt that US is going to be around Star Alliance for another decade.

They are not bankrupt, they are in bankruptcy protection. They will emerge from Chapter 11 slightly smaller, right before they start getting their new short haul fleet of 460 aircraft and will be better placed to compete with UA and DL. Most of the reason they have gone from biggest to third is because UA ate CO and DL ate NW.

QF and CX not working well together isn't because QF doesn't want to, its CX being CX. It is annoying that JQ appears to be slowly replacing QF, they should be complimenting each other not have the cheaper one eat away at the other. Most of the problems QF has is because of the unions and Australian government. If a few people grew some brains, things should get a bit better. Although some of the actions of the current and previous CEOs have been a bit questionable, the delays to the 787 and A380 haven't helped. QF has added new destinations, DFW and SCL (though at the cost of SFO and EZE). Having JQ/3K join OW would be useful and QF should improve, provided they can survive the next few years.

All of India's airlines are having major problems. If the Indian Government doesn't step in and do something soon, most of India's airlines will die. Though the governments ownership of AI doesn't help here.

Why would CX leave OW?

Thanks to merger conditions placed on them by the local regulators, Lan and Tam's choices are to go with Oneworld or no one. One regulator said must go with Star or OW, the other said they can't be in the same alliance as Avianca (star).

Hainan's market is not the same as CXs. CX/KA does not operate mainland china domestic flights. HU does. CX doesn't want HU in oneworld because of their connection to HX. The other mainland carriers aren't an option. CX thinks that Chinese domestic pax should just connect through HKG.

Star Alliance and SkyTeam airlines are having just as many problems as OneWorld carriers.

+1
And I am positive QF qill survive.

Cathay is probably doing the best of the lot has strong growth and high profits, it may leave oneworld.


Cathay should just move to StarAlliance. But I think SQ/TG will block it

Cathay should just move to StarAlliance. But I think SQ/TG will block itAgain, why would CX want to leave Oneworld?

SQ/TG could block CX, or CX could figure why bother competing. I doubt CX is going anywhere.
Kingfisher, that was a serious Fu(*&^ck on whoever invited them. Any sort of due dilligance (or just reading flyertalk or airliners.net) would show they have some very serious financial issues. I think Jet would have been a much better choice, if not for the fact they seem to have a better network than IT.
MX, may she rest in peace, but not the biggest blow, same with MA.
AA and JL are on the track to getting their finances back in order.
QF I am a bit worried about, I think jetstar is taking over too much.
MH, great airline and it seems the Malaysian govt will dump money into them for a while.
Overall things at OW might not be perfect, but could be worse.
I will say though I wish we picked up China eastern. Yes their onboard product kind of sucks, but all chinese carriers are not much better.

What I've always wondered about is how QFFs can earn points on China Eastern, when MU is with SkyTeam. No SCs, but not a bad start, millsdale!

And Finnair, which the Finnish government is looking to sell and/or downsize.

Eh, not exactly...
AY is looking for a partner to reach 2 goals; radically lower costs for its euro traffic and to increase presence in the nordics. One could argue that it is a downsizing, as some planes and crews may have to leave the legacy carrier, but the intended result is an increase of total amount of traffic under AY (and partner) control.

Finnish government have said that if their holdings (currently ≈56%) is blocking such a deal, they are willing to discuss a reduction, but they are determined to stay a major shareholder for the foreseeable future.

What I've always wondered about is how QFFs can earn points on China Eastern, when MU is with SkyTeam. No SCs, but not a bad start, millsdale!
MU and QF worked together long before MU joined ST.... It was more Chinese politics than airline decision.. Maybe MU want to be in the same alliance as CZ to compete with CA ad its subsidiaries...

It was more Chinese politics than airline decision..

Or perhaps the CEO's personal preference...

Eh, not exactly...
AY is looking for a partner to reach 2 goals; radically lower costs for its euro traffic and to increase presence in the nordics. One could argue that it is a downsizing, as some planes and crews may have to leave the legacy carrier, but the intended result is an increase of total amount of traffic under AY (and partner) control.Jetstar Scandinavia? :p

Jetstar Scandinavia? :p

:D

Well, I hope not, but it is hard to completely discard the thought...
AY and BA already co-owns a "jetstar" called FlyBe, but from communications it seems that FlyBe is out of the question for this task.

MU and QF worked together long before MU joined ST.... It was more Chinese politics than airline decision.. Maybe MU want to be in the same alliance as CZ to compete with CA ad its subsidiaries...

So OW did not bribe the right Chinese official:D It is my understanding that all CZ, MU, and CA are for the most part state owned, so you are not really competeing against each other. I would see it better from the chinese government to have one in each alliance to balance it out and give each airline their own following. Now Skyteam partners will be splitting feed between CZ and MU when they could just be sending it CZ.

I feel that EY will be invited soon to join OW.

It is the obvious move of OW members to combat EK crazy expansion every where.

I feel that EY will be invited soon to join OW.How so? If it were to happen, it would be either AA or BA sponsoring them into the alliance. I don't think it is as likely as it could have been as they swapped Australian partners from QF to DJ/VA.

I feel that EY will be invited soon to join OW.

It is the obvious move of OW members to combat EK crazy expansion every where.

How so? If it were to happen, it would be either AA or BA sponsoring them into the alliance. I don't think it is as likely as it could have been as they swapped Australian partners from QF to DJ/VA.

It is obvious that OW will invite EY, but the question is whether EY will choose to join OW or not.EY, unlike EK, claim to be looking to join an alliance, and that it would probably either be OW or *A. It has partner airberlin in OW, and Virgin Australia, opposed to both BA and QF and allied with SQ, a *A member. It does have other partnerships with OW members and *A members, but most of those are less important.
I really don't know which one it will join, but seeing its large stake in airberlin, it seems a bit towards the OW side, but things can change.

The last time I flushed a toilet on BA it made a unique sound. That signaled BA's downfall, and the end of OneWorld as a whole. :p

That sound really sucks ... :D


Sure, but all of us taking a shower in BA LHR T5 F Lounge has heard worse sucking sounds, for years. Maybe that's BD beeing sucked into IAG?
;)

Sure, but all of us taking a shower in BA LHR T5 F Lounge has heard worse sucking sounds, for years. Maybe that's BD beeing sucked into IAG?
;)

:D

QF I am a bit worried about, I think jetstar is taking over too much.

Thought I might mention that, at the NATAS fair (largest travel show in SIN), QF didn't bother with their share of the stall, handing it all to BA. Jetstar also made a presence (with a few of the "business" class seats which looked downright horrible at their stall). It looks like QF is all but exiting the Asia region, if you ask me. :eek:

Jetstar Scandinavia? :p

Can't see a budget airline being based in countries with such high labour/operating costs.

Can't see a budget airline being based in countries with such high labour/operating costs.

Like say Australia

Can't see a budget airline being based in countries with such high labour/operating costs.

Probably would try to wrangle an arrangement using lower cost Eatern European (there are some left) labour!:eek:

Probably would try to wrangle an arrangement using lower cost Eatern European (there are some left) labour!:eek:

Like Ryanair eh?

Like Ryanair eh?
Well I had to model my answer after a factual airline.;)
Pilots of course will come from low houred pilots with shiny jet syndrome that will be a pilot on a graduates starting wage just to fly in the silver jets.:p

What I've always wondered about is how QFFs can earn points on China Eastern, when MU is with SkyTeam. No SCs, but not a bad start, millsdale!

MU and QF worked together long before MU joined ST.... It was more Chinese politics than airline decision.. Maybe MU want to be in the same alliance as CZ to compete with CA ad its subsidiaries...

Or perhaps the CEO's personal preference...

As 123dd stated, agreements signed before an airline jojns an alliance do not suddenly disappear. There are many many examples of this. SKymiles flyers could redeem award on SQ even after SQ decided to join *Alliance. Delta flyers can still redeem their miles on Jet and Kingfisher.

As 123dd stated, agreements signed before an airline jojns an alliance do not suddenly disappear.

MH seems to be going the other direction though, with their agreements with other airlines like Virgin Australia disappearing even before being admitted to the alliance.

MH seems to be going the other direction though, with their agreements with other airlines like Virgin Australia disappearing even before being admitted to the alliance.Which agreements? I doubt they are dropping all agreements with non oneworld members, just those that would conflict with another oneworld member (such as NH vs JL and DJ/VA vs QF).

MH seems to be going the other direction though, with their agreements with other airlines like Virgin Australia disappearing even before being admitted to the alliance.

With QF being MH's sponsor, this should come quickly.

From a Star Alliance customer perspective, One World does seem to have lost their competitive advantage - there are just so many more partners in Star.

From a leisure traveller perspective, there is little incentive to want to switch or ride One World metal when Star will take you there, and get points.

Perhaps if I was in SYD or HKG or LHR, and One World was my only choice, then it would make more sense to be a part of their program, but it seems that the amount of metal available from Vancouver doesn't really suit my needs.

Again, why would CX want to leave Oneworld?

I don't think CX is going to leave oneworld. CX is very committed to the alliance. Maybe because it doesn't make sense to ditch something they helped to create!

I don't think CX is going to leave oneworld. CX is very committed to the alliance. Maybe because it doesn't make sense to ditch something they helped to create!

Agreed. Although the Air China joint ownership thing certainly makes things interesting, the only way I could see CX leaving oneworld is if the alliance was on the verge of collapse (which it is not).

From a Star Alliance customer perspective, One World does seem to have lost their competitive advantage - there are just so many more partners in Star.

oneworld always suffered from less partners.
Would they had was general strength of quality airlines with good lounges

OW 2 Thumbs down!

oneworld always suffered from less partners.
Would they had was general strength of quality airlines with good lounges

The span in quality is higher in *A than in OW, IMO

The span in quality is higher in *A than in OW, IMO
I would agree with this now but not 10 years ago.
*A is becoming the alliance, if not already is. Of course it helps when you have hundereds of airlines:p Yes that is an exageration but I remember some *A liveries where the fuselage was painted in colours of member airlines....an A340-600 would struggle to have this scheme now.

I would agree with this now but not 10 years ago.
*A is becoming the alliance, if not already is. Of course it helps when you have hundereds of airlines:p Yes that is an exageration but I remember some *A liveries where the fuselage was painted in colours of member airlines....an A340-600 would struggle to have this scheme now.*A has too many members that they can't work well together. It might as well be UA, LH and SQ while the other airlines do what they're told.

*A has too many members that they can't work well together. It might as well be UA, LH and SQ while the other airlines do what they're told.
I agree

Considering AB joined today, OW now have more game in Germany and the rest of Europe! Anyone know if there is any form of link now between OW and EY?

Agreed. Although the Air China joint ownership thing certainly makes things interesting, the only way I could see CX leaving oneworld is if the alliance was on the verge of collapse (which it is not).

What are the chances of CA joining oneworld? It does not seem that they are heavily in a partnership with any of the Star Alliance , and where they are they can be easily replaced. In fact their most extensive partnership is with CX and KA, both oneworld members.

- Replace NH with JL on Japan-China flights
- QF can replace MU with CA on Australian flights - Qantas can fly to Shanghai, and Air China for Beijing flights. QF and CA codeshared on the PEK-SYD route at one stage.
- Partner with AA on the US flights.

Whereas CX on the other hand, has a huge rival in * in SQ. Plus it codeshares heavily with AA even to South America, BA in inter-Europe, JL on flights to Japan amongst others.

I think we might see HU/HX join oneworld (providing a mini HKG base to star), and CA come to oneworld longer term. To me it seems logical, feel free to disagree.

I agree

Considering AB joined today, OW now have more game in Germany and the rest of Europe! Anyone know if there is any form of link now between OW and EY?

AF/KLM is talking to AirBerlin about a "strategic partnership". So much for joining OW!

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-03-09/air-france-open-to-air-berlin-cooperation-ft-deutschland-says.html

http://www.telegraaf.nl/dft/nieuws_dft/11757017/__Kroonjuweel_KLM_inzet_van_geldnood_Air_France__. html

"Airberlin has accepted the invitation of Air France KLM to talk about a strategic cooperation."

I agree

Considering AB joined today, OW now have more game in Germany and the rest of Europe! Anyone know if there is any form of link now between OW and EY?

Not yet. EY and AA seem to expand exchange programs, sure hope this could evolve to EY joining OW.

:)

What are the chances of CA joining oneworld? It does not seem that they are heavily in a partnership with any of the Star Alliance , and where they are they can be easily replaced. In fact their most extensive partnership is with CX and KA, both oneworld members.

- Replace NH with JL on Japan-China flights
- QF can replace MU with CA on Australian flights - Qantas can fly to Shanghai, and Air China for Beijing flights. QF and CA codeshared on the PEK-SYD route at one stage.
- Partner with AA on the US flights.

Whereas CX on the other hand, has a huge rival in * in SQ. Plus it codeshares heavily with AA even to South America, BA in inter-Europe, JL on flights to Japan amongst others.

I think we might see HU/HX join oneworld (providing a mini HKG base to star), and CA come to oneworld longer term. To me it seems logical, feel free to disagree.

Air China seems pretty happy in *, slowly growing into a bigger and bigger role in the alliance. The scenario you laid out does make sense should they defect, although the second point is kind of moot from air china's point of view (also I'm assuming you meant Hainan joins *A, not oneworld). Alot of this Air China/Cathay defecting talk depends heavily upon who is percieved to be calling the shots. I would put my money on the Chinese government as opposed to swire pacific. Also, I could see Cathay defecting to *A if oneworld was collapsing and Singapore airlines decided to leave. Cathay could codeshare with united/avianca/taca/copa for south america, ANA replaces JAL and lufthansa and friends provide a number of different bases in europe to work from.

QF and CX not working well together isn't because QF doesn't want to, its CX being CX.

I have a friend who has bounced around in executive positions in airlines around Asia for the past 20 years that routinely fills me in on head office gossip. I trust his opinions because his network includes decision makers at all of the airlines being discussed here.

Cutting to the chase, he recently told me that QF's recent attempt to partner with HNA really pissed off CX. In spite of the fact that his current employer is a member of one of the alliances that has solid intra-China connectivity, he fully respects CX's desire to be OW's link to China.

Separately, I've been working on a project with HNA for the past year, and have learned a lot about the company in the process. Those guys have a ton of money, and seem quite happy doing things their own way... almost cowboy style (e.g. buy a hotel in some far flung city, start flying there, and hope for the best). While kissing up to CX isn't beyond the realm of possibility, this idea doesn't gel with what I understand about their corporate culture; e.g. they are immensely proud of their new HKG-LHR flight.

Die?!? OW had TWO new members join it these past week or so, cos in addition to AB...

http://www.businesstraveller.com/news/iberia-express-to-join-oneworld-as-affiliate-me

;) :D

Die?!? OW had TWO new members join it these past week or so, cos in addition to AB...

http://www.businesstraveller.com/news/iberia-express-to-join-oneworld-as-affiliate-me

;) :D

If you want to talk affiliate members, you can throw in NIKI as well.

Here's to a crazy idea, but since QF doesn't get on with CX, and now doesn't get on with MH either, perhaps QF should leave OW, and join ST. Virgin is somewhat aligned with *A, and with SQ obviously being in *A, that's not really an option.

But if QF does join ST, they would have instantly created a network in China, via MU in Shanghai, and to a lesser degree CZ which flies to major AU cities already. The link to Japan is lost, but with non-stop flights from eastern AU to the US, I don't see it as a big loss. However, they gain VN's network, and further collaboration in that area would also help with Jetstar's somewhat haphazard relationship in that country. And then, there's Garuda... but I can't see them being too happy about letting QF in. :)

QF also already codeshare with AF to France, and its frequent flyer program also earns points on AZ. But apart from this, the network does have a pretty big hole in Europe. Having said that though, given QF's recent strategic shift in focusing in Asia and regional flights rather than the ultra-long-haul segments to Europe, moving to ST actually sounds like a good strategic fit.

EDIT: Adding to the above, I've just been made aware that Jetstar Hong Kong is launching as a joint venture with MU. As silly and embarrassing it is for a OW founding member to defect, it does sound like it might just work out... (although I might not say the same after I recover from my red-eye flight).

EDIT: Adding to the above, I've just been made aware that Jetstar Hong Kong is launching as a joint venture with MU. As silly and embarrassing it is for a OW founding member to defect, it does sound like it might just work out... (although I might not say the same after I recover from my red-eye flight).

Just read the same thing. Cathay can't be happy about this.

CX should just partner up with Virgin Australia to piss QF off.

CX should just partner up with Virgin Australia to piss QF off.

Actually ex-Taiwan one can choose intra-AU add-on on either QF or DJ when buying a CX TKT. I believe that it would be the case for ex-HKG as well.

Die?!? OW had TWO new members join it these past week or so, cos in addition to AB...

http://www.businesstraveller.com/news/iberia-express-to-join-oneworld-as-affiliate-me

;) :D

If you want to talk affiliate members, you can throw in NIKI as well.

Yeah, THREE new then, and MH warming up before autumn entrance...

Did I hear EY???:confused:

:cool:

Yeah, THREE new then, and MH warming up before autumn entrance...

Did I hear EY???:confused:

:cool:

EY joining OW would be AWESOME.

Shocked that Kingfisher hasn't gone down the drain yet... In fact, they are still listed as a future member of oneworld!

Shocked that Kingfisher hasn't gone down the drain yet... In fact, they are still listed as a future member of oneworld!

Probably just keeping them there in the unlikely event they survive.

Shocked that Kingfisher hasn't gone down the drain yet... In fact, they are still listed as a future member of oneworld!

you guys have piled on an astounding quantity of death wishes for Kingfisher the past months. You know, maybe you've just given them additional support and help them actually slowly come over their predicament :cool:
So, next time you really really wish them down the drain, try a different tactic, shower them with abundant praise! :D

you guys have piled on an astounding quantity of death wishes for Kingfisher the past months. You know, maybe you've just given them additional support and help them actually slowly come over their predicament :cool:
So, next time you really really wish them down the drain, try a different tactic, shower them with abundant praise! :D

Kingfisher is the best airline ever!

How could anybody think that Kingfisher is going bankrupt! They will be here forever, the most profitable company in the world!

How could anybody think that Kingfisher is going bankrupt! They will be here forever, the most profitable company in the world!

I think they mean kingfisher Airlines, not Kingfisher Beers or whatsoever.

I think they mean kingfisher Airlines, not Kingfisher Beers or whatsoever.

Of course it's the airline. How could you confuse an unprofitable company like the beer with such a fantastically profitable airline?

Of course it's the airline. How could you confuse an unprofitable company like the beer with such a fantastically profitable airline?

You are either extremely funny, or have no idea of accounting...lol...I prefer to think that you are funny and saying things in opposite manner...;)

You are either extremely funny, or have no idea of accounting...lol...I prefer to think that you are funny and saying things in opposite manner...;)
Perhaps this will explain:
you guys have piled on an astounding quantity of death wishes for Kingfisher the past months. You know, maybe you've just given them additional support and help them actually slowly come over their predicament :cool:
So, next time you really really wish them down the drain, try a different tactic, shower them with abundant praise! :D

CX is doing very well and great financial reports.

However, it is promoting its own program Asia Miles.

Most economy tickets does not offer AA miles.

Asia Miles is a second tier program, almost useless for most people

CX is doing very well and great financial reports.

However, it is promoting its own program Asia Miles.

Most economy tickets does not offer AA miles.

Asia Miles is a second tier program, almost useless for most people

Every airline in OW has its own programme (with the exception of BA and IB). This has always been the case, and it has always been common to have many restrictions on earning miles discount Y fares. Nothing new and nothing related to CX dumping OW.

Every airline in OW has its own programme (with the exception of BA and IB). This has always been the case, and it has always been common to have many restrictions on earning miles discount Y fares. Nothing new and nothing related to CX dumping OW.

BA and IB has Avios, similar to Asia Miles in terms of functionality.

CX is doing very well and great financial reports.

However, it is promoting its own program Asia Miles.

Most economy tickets does not offer AA miles.

Asia Miles is a second tier program, almost useless for most people

Asia Miles has beeen there for ages. It was revolutionary as it is designed for members who only want to accumilate miles only no statues. SQ, MH and VN used to be a member as well.

Asia Miles has beeen there for ages. It was revolutionary as it is designed for members who only want to accumilate miles only no statues. SQ, MH and VN used to be a member as well.

You meant Passages, which was used by CX, SQ, and MH. Passages ceased to exist and AM was created when CX joined OW.

I hereby declare oneworld alliance dead!

When is this thread going to die?

When is this thread going to die?

Three years after Skyteam (loss of DL proved fatal), two years after Star Alliance (some members got too friendly with AF) and one year after oneworld (regulators made being the last alliance too difficult). Many threads outlast their topics.

Three years after Skyteam (loss of DL proved fatal), two years after Star Alliance (some members got too friendly with AF) and one year after oneworld (regulators made being the last alliance too difficult). Many threads outlast their topics.

FWIW, I think SkyTeam and Star Alliance would die after oneworld, not before.

FWIW, I think SkyTeam and Star Alliance would die after oneworld, not before.

Among the three alliances only one had experienced death so far (remember wing?)(I did not say the actual alliance had dead but being absorbed)

I see a better chance of star alliance being broke up into two more than OneWorld not surviving.

Passages was an alliance of sorts, albeit a tiny one.

Among the three alliances only one had experienced death so far (remember wing?)(I did not say the actual alliance had dead but being absorbed)

I see a better chance of star alliance being broke up into two more than OneWorld not surviving.

SriLankan Airlines joining oneworld is a clear warning of the alliance's impending destruction.

SriLankan Airlines joining oneworld is a clear warning of the alliance's impending destruction.

From your posts I can only say that you are obviously an OneWorld hater.

Smaller carriers have been joining alliances and can be quite successful to both carrier and alliance. For example Finnair, no way near to be a big carrier. Then Aegean, and Royal Jordanian, not to mention Czech, S7, LOT, brusselles, are all small carriers with lesser quality. I am sure the on board service on UL would beat LOT or Czeck very easily. from your logic, why Aegean join falling star did not show the warning? Why MEA join sky trash did not show the warning?

From your posts I can only say that you are obviously an OneWorld hater. lol, no. I'm trying to suggest better reasons that oneworld might die than the ones in the OP. I must say, it's not particularly difficult.
I don't forsee oneworld dying in the near future, and I certainly don't have any bad feelings towards it.

Smaller carriers have been joining alliances and can be quite successful to both carrier and alliance. For example Finnair, no way near to be a big carrier. Then Aegean, and Royal Jordanian, not to mention Czech, S7, LOT, brusselles, are all small carriers with lesser quality. I am sure the on board service on UL would beat LOT or Czeck very easily. I agree that many of these carriers have been very successful in alliances. I fail to understand why this is relevant.
from your logic, why Aegean join falling star did not show the warning? Because I haven't displayed any logic so far?
Why MEA join sky trash did not show the warning?I see you're not a SkyTeam fan.

PVDtoDEL, as one fellow poster did remind you quite a few times in the AoI forum, you need to be both more levelheaded and more thoughtful when posting. Shooting trenchant replies regarding impending destruction without stating the reason, if there's one, smacks of an emotional reply and does add nothing worthwhile to a discussion. The induction of new members to an alliance, any alliance, is always a positive outcome no matter the circumstances and as such should be treated. Finally, I must say that the title of this thread is one of the more absurd I've seen in many years, OW is gonna survive as * and ST will, although clearly the years of rapid development are ended already for all three, and will likely never come back again, so each of the alliances will remain roughly the same size as now. I think what we may expect in future is substantial reshuffling of members, some will disappear due to circumstances (Malev, Spanair, Mexicana, and i'll add Czech, Austrian and SN Brussels in the medium period), some will switch (TAM very soon, but I'll add Thai, South African and perhaps the unlikely combo Air China/Cathay), and perhaps some may find appealing to disengage entirely from the big three and try forming new, more focussed alliances (alliances were born by instigation of the European powerhouses and with a definite Atlantic overtones, now Asia instead is becoming the centre of the aviation market, and I will not be surprised if, say, CA, CX, SQ, MH and AI will take the lead in forming a new alliance altogether)

The induction of new members to an alliance, any alliance, is always a positive outcome no matter the circumstances and as such should be treated.

As I said, comment was tongue in cheek. But point taken...

Just saw from jimyvr that BA is once again code-sharing with IT (http://airlineroute.net/2012/06/14/bait-codeshare-resume/). Does that mean IT's situation has improved and it will get back on track in joining OW?

Just saw from jimyvr that BA is once again code-sharing with IT (http://airlineroute.net/2012/06/14/bait-codeshare-resume/). Does that mean IT's situation has improved and it will get back on track in joining OW?

No. It just means that BA has developed some metal problems.

Quite literally. IT is in no shape to join an alliance right now.

Srilankan to oneworld makes alot of sense. It gives oneworld additional access to the indian market while still allowing them to easily bring in kingfisher in the event they survive.

Just saw from jimyvr that BA is once again code-sharing with IT (http://airlineroute.net/2012/06/14/bait-codeshare-resume/). Does that mean IT's situation has improved and it will get back on track in joining OW?

OW isn't really in a hurry to get IT on board although it hasn't officially kick IT out of the member-elect category. I wouldn't say IT has improved but more like stabilized.

No. It just means that BA has developed some metal problems.

Quite literally. IT is in no shape to join an alliance right now.

Once again you keep coming up with personal views but unable to back it up here and on a.net and Airliners-India, same with your posts on your own website. You keep saying "points taken" but you never learn, instead you only focus your time on being cheerleader for Air India. I understand you are still in high school, and "occupied with school work". But if you have that much time around to go all over the place saying whatever you want, you probably would've better off to spend those time to find figures to back your claim.

Once again you keep coming up with personal views but unable to back it up here and on a.net and Airliners-India, same with your posts on your own website. You keep saying "points taken" but you never learn, instead you only focus your time on being cheerleader for Air India.

Eh? What figures do I need to back up that IT is in no shape to join an alliance right now?

Their OTP? Their RASM/CASM ratio? Their debtload? The date of their staff's last paycheck? The amount of time that they have been kicked out of IATA BSP? The number of times their accounts have been frozen by income tax authorities? The fact that nobody is willing to inject any cash into the airline? I can provide them all. Just tell me what info you want.

I still am at a loss as to how anybody can think IT's current operations are sustainable. IT will need investment from somebody. Vijay Mallya has proved that he isn't willing to put in any more cash. The banks have made it clear that they won't invest more money unless a promoter does first. Putting hopes on FDI is incredibly naive - no sane foreign investor is going to invest in the company when the current owners (banks and Vijay Mallya) aren't willing to.

If there is some detail that I have missed, by all means let me know. But from what I can see, in the current state IT is in, a) they aren't going to last, and b) they aren't in any shape to join an alliance. If by some miracle, they find an investor, then things might be different. But I doubt it.

Eh? What figures do I need to back up that IT is in no shape to join an alliance right now?

...

If there is some detail that I have missed, by all means let me know. But from what I can see, in the current state IT is in, a) they aren't going to last, and b) they aren't in any shape to join an alliance. If by some miracle, they find an investor, then things might be different. But I doubt it.

If you are going to pretend you know everything at your age, prove it. Layout all the figures. This industry has seen lots of ups and downs but also seen some carriers managed to pull through despite it wasn't the size as it used to be.

If you are going to pretend you know everything at your age, prove it. Layout all the figures. This industry has seen lots of ups and downs but also seen some carriers managed to pull through despite it wasn't the size as it used to be.

I don't claim to know "everything" - but from what I do know, it doesn't seem likely that IT is going to last, much less join an alliance.

I have many of those figures (albeit slightly outdated) in writing from a person at Corp. Comm. at IT, who has since moved to a different job. Unfortunately, the email is in Hindi. But if you want, I'll forward you the email (and a translation). Just send me a PM with your email address..

Aviation is most definitely a volatile industry, where you can never say never. But logic still applies most of the time.

Aviation is most definitely a volatile industry, where you can never say never. But logic still applies most of the time.

But does it warrant the use of exaggerative language?

But does it warrant the use of exaggerative language?

Perhaps not. But the point remains the same - IT is not in any state to join an alliance.

BA has removed the filing in the OAG in the last two hours.

Perhaps not. But the point remains the same - IT is not in any state to join an alliance.
The point does not remain the same because the focus will shift to your exaggeration and biased view since you're AI-cheerleader.

BA has removed the filing in the OAG in the last two hours.

Hmm, interesting. Thanks for the update :)

I wonder what prompted them to file it in the first place...