US Airways Dividend Miles - Will US ever have DCA - JFK route?

I know that US has the shuttle to LGA every hour. I was wondering if anyone would think they might ever introduce DCA - JFK route (nonstop). JFK has more options for me to fly foreign airlines to SE Asia (mainly SQ from JFK - their EWR service to Singapore is too expensive for a family of 3). Besides, I live a lot closer to DCA than to IAD (if I choose to fly NH or UA).

I am sure there's a good explanation why they don't have that service this whole time. Any insights?

FHD

I suspect it's purely economics. Until the HP-US merger, US didn't even have presence at JFK. DL and AA do it already to feed their flights. US has only a few scant flights (1? 2? gates) from CLT and PHX.

DCA-LGA is purely designed as a business route, obviously

UA, B6, DL do it from IAD.

Isn't the overall trip time from IAD to SE Asia (via PEK, ICN, NRT) shorter than going up to JFK anyway? You can still do it with 2 flights. JFK would seem to add a 3rd leg if you need to go DCA-JFK-xxx-SIN.

I would say no way. They don't even have JFK-PHL despite all the connection opportunities there.

LGA is the preferred airport for those flying to NYC and corporate customers will pay a premium.

JFK is also slot restricted - so US would likely not make enough to cut one of the PHX or CLT flights to bring in a DCA flight. DCA is also slot restricted so the same logic applies.

United does fly IAD to JFK.

The cab ride from LGA to JFK isn't that bad. You need to change terminals anyways so you would need to reclear security. Baggage is a bit more of a pain.

I would say no way. They don't even have JFK-PHL despite all the connection opportunities there.

That's just it. Aside from an NH flight to NRT or a SQ flight to SIN (via FRA), how many connection opportunities are there that would benefit US and *A partners? LH connections would be meaningless since you can get to FRA and MUC from PHL anyway. I'm sure there's other *A partners, but the same logic applies. Not enough to be of any major benefit that can't be served flying PHL to a European hub.

DL flies PHL-JFK to feed their intl. hub. AA did a long time ago. Wish they did again....

Why would US compete against its own shuttle when it doesn't serve any meaningful destinations from JFK? There is limited IAD-JFK service on UA and US has service DCA-PHL and CLT, its intl. gateways. There is also easy Amtrak/Airtrain service from Union Station.

Why would US compete against its own shuttle when it doesn't serve any meaningful destinations from JFK? There is limited IAD-JFK service on UA and US has service DCA-PHL and CLT, its intl. gateways. There is also easy Amtrak/Airtrain service from Union Station.

Unless US starts offering intl. service out of JFK it's doubtful....

Unless US starts offering intl. service out of JFK it's doubtful....

That will never happen. US, as currently configured, has zero feed in or out of JFK. There is so much (established) competition from larger airlines that do have feed on both sides of the Atlantic that US would be insane to attempt a break-in at JFK.

That will never happen. US, as currently configured, has zero feed in or out of JFK. There is so much (established) competition from larger airlines that do have feed on both sides of the Atlantic that US would be insane to attempt a break-in at JFK.

Not to mention they already have an international base close by at PHL, which seems to be doing just fine...

US did fly DCA-JFK during the mid 90's. It was a DH8 specifically timed to connect with BA's concorde flights to LHR. I think they actually called it the "Concorde Connection". I highly doubt that US's current management will ever bring back DCA-JFK however.

JFK is a weakness of *A more than US - no U.S. *A carrier has much presence there but there are a significant number of flights by international *A partners there. US, as well as UA/CO miss out on connecting possibilities with those *A international partner flights. In short, JFK could be seen as something of a *A hub for all 3 alliances but with little domestic feed to/from *A.

However, it's better for US to carry *A traffic to a foreign hub since it gets a bigger share of the revenue that way. For UA/CO it's not as big of a problem since they're part of the immunized JV where schedule and revenue sharing is possible.

Jim

JFK is a weakness of *A more than US - no U.S. *A carrier has much presence there but there are a significant number of flights by international *A partners there. US, as well as UA/CO miss out on connecting possibilities with those *A international partner flights. In short, JFK could be seen as something of a *A hub for all 3 alliances but with little domestic feed to/from *A.

However, it's better for US to carry *A traffic to a foreign hub since it gets a bigger share of the revenue that way. For UA/CO it's not as big of a problem since they're part of the immunized JV where schedule and revenue sharing is possible.

Jim

I remain under the impression that JFK is seen as more of a final destination, rather than a connecting point at least as far as *A is concerned with only minimal connections to United and US's other hubs:

United (p.s.) to LAX and SFO, (express) to IAD
US to PHX and CLT

and that's it...

Have to wonder, are LH, SAS and other *A carriers sending their JFK bound passengers to EWR to pick up connections on United?

I remain under the impression that JFK is seen as more of a final destination, rather than a connecting point at least as far as *A is concerned with only minimal connections to United and US's other hubs:

That's basically what I said. Since NYC is the biggest O&D city in the U.S. it's not as bad a problem for *A as it would be elsewhere, it does cause inconvenience for potential *A connecting passengers that ST and OW don't cause. I suspect that for most European/Asian/etc passengers, NYC is JFK and EWR is "Where?"

I suspect that EWR will see gains in *A international flights now that UA is merging with CO. There are probably pros and cons to that - *A NYC traffic is mostly used using JFK since CO is so new to the alliance, meaning a shifting of flights risks losing some O&D traffic. On the other hand, EWR can provide a lot better non-O&D feed to *A than JFK does, and with ATI flights/revenue can be shared. Instead of competing for passengers, the ATI *A carriers could cooperate to attract passengers.

Jim

That's basically what I said. Since NYC is the biggest O&D city in the U.S. it's not as bad a problem for *A as it would be elsewhere, it does cause inconvenience for potential *A connecting passengers that ST and OW don't cause. I suspect that for most European/Asian/etc passengers, NYC is JFK and EWR is "Where?"

I suspect that EWR will see gains in *A international flights now that UA is merging with CO. There are probably pros and cons to that - *A NYC traffic is mostly used using JFK since CO is so new to the alliance, meaning a shifting of flights risks losing some O&D traffic. On the other hand, EWR can provide a lot better non-O&D feed to *A than JFK does, and with ATI flights/revenue can be shared. Instead of competing for passengers, the ATI *A carriers could cooperate to attract passengers.

Jim

What does O&D mean?

What does O&D mean?

The Flyertalk Glossary (http://www.flyertalk.com/glossary/?letter_start=O) can be quite handy ;)

O&D: Originations & Destinations.

Thanks astimm. It's shorthand for passengers whose origination or ultimate destination of their itinerary in the city an aiirport serves. For NYC it would include those whose whose origination or destination airport is JFK/LGA/EWR primarily (does anyone still serve the smaller airport to the north of Manhatten?).

Jim

Thanks astimm. It's shorthand for passengers whose origination or ultimate destination of their itinerary in the city an aiirport serves. For NYC it would include those whose whose origination or destination airport is JFK/LGA/EWR primarily (does anyone still serve the smaller airport to the north of Manhattan?).

Jim

Stewart Airport in White Plains? Yup: Allegiant, JetBlue, two Delta Connection carriers and two US Express carriers. I thought WN and/or NK flew out of there as well for some reason.

Stewart Airport in White Plains? Yup: Allegiant, JetBlue, two Delta Connection carriers and two US Express carriers. I thought WN and/or NK flew out of there as well for some reason.

Stewart Airport is in Newburgh, not White Plains. Westchester County is in White Plains, and is served by at least AA, DL, B6, UA, US, and FL. Don't know about Spirit.

Jeff

AA has announced the start of DCA-LAX service in June. A 2-class 757 one flight/day each way.

Press Release (http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/american-airlines-to-begin-nonstop-service-between-washington-reagan-and-los-angeles-in-june-140791633.html)

Jim

AA has announced the start of DCA-LAX service in June. A 2-class 757 one flight/day each way.

Press Release (http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/american-airlines-to-begin-nonstop-service-between-washington-reagan-and-los-angeles-in-june-140791633.html)

Jim

UA's pushing for DCA-SFO too.

Stewart Airport is in Newburgh, not White Plains. Westchester County is in White Plains, and is served by at least AA, DL, B6, UA, US, and FL. Don't know about Spirit.

Jeff

Oops :o

That will never happen. US, as currently configured, has zero feed in or out of JFK. There is so much (established) competition from larger airlines that do have feed on both sides of the Atlantic that US would be insane to attempt a break-in at JFK.

Unless US becomes part of an airline with a hub at JFK (B6, DL, AA).

That's basically what I said. Since NYC is the biggest O&D city in the U.S. it's not as bad a problem for *A as it would be elsewhere, it does cause inconvenience for potential *A connecting passengers that ST and OW don't cause. I suspect that for most European/Asian/etc passengers, NYC is JFK and EWR is "Where?"

I suspect that EWR will see gains in *A international flights now that UA is merging with CO. There are probably pros and cons to that - *A NYC traffic is mostly used using JFK since CO is so new to the alliance, meaning a shifting of flights risks losing some O&D traffic. On the other hand, EWR can provide a lot better non-O&D feed to *A than JFK does, and with ATI flights/revenue can be shared. Instead of competing for passengers, the ATI *A carriers could cooperate to attract passengers.

Jim

I don't really consider EWR a terrible, out of the way airport for a Manhattan arrival- the trains into the city are reasonably convenient from there (and the traffic through Queens is pretty awful at times, just like going over the Hudson). That would be more like SWF (as you mentioned), or ISP.

Oh, and connecting in that BOS/NYC/PHL airspace ready to slap delays on you is a fool's errand, if you ask me. Avoid if possible.

I don't really consider EWR a terrible, out of the way airport for a Manhattan arrival- the trains into the city are reasonably convenient from there (and the traffic through Queens is pretty awful at times, just like going over the Hudson).

I agree. It's just that JFK has been the international airport at NYC for so long that many people don't consider anywhere else if they're going to the city. With *A in EWR now, that perception will change over time.

Jim

UA's pushing for DCA-SFO too.

not so much pushing...they'll get it per the order from the DOT. AA's route as well. i'm curious what route US will go for with the potential to swapping an inside slot to a beyond perimeter slot. will they try and add another PHX/LAS flight?

DL is doing another SLC flight.

As I said in another thread, I think US would be smart to add another PHX flight. Though not officially a hub, it would have feed at both ends and the feed in/out of PHX captures a lot more traffic than a west coast flight would with no feed. LAS would be a less attractive option given the big reduction in flights in/out of LAS.

Jim

As I said in another thread, I think US would be smart to add another PHX flight. Though not officially a hub, it would have feed at both ends and the feed in/out of PHX captures a lot more traffic than a west coast flight would with no feed. LAS would be a less attractive option given the big reduction in flights in/out of LAS.

Jim

is there a current thread about the slot for US? i didn't see it. sorry.

No, it's not current. It was started when the talk of granting more beyond perimeter slots started. It died once the decision to let within perimeter slots be converted to beyond perimeter slots, with speculation on who would get how many and where US might go beyond perimeter.

Here the link to that thread if you're interested...it's 6 or 7 pages back now.

Beyond perimeter thread (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/us-airways-dividend-miles/1311828-one-addl-perimeter-exemption-dca.html)

Jim