Finnair Plus - HEL Connection

Hello,

With AA canceling the JFK-BUD route, i have an option of being rerouted through HEL. however, the connection is 40 minutes? I have never flown AY or been in HEL and do not know if this is even duable. Please help. The Flights would be JFK-HEL-BUD

thank you in advance
Lenny

MCT @ HEL is 35 min. If AY6 is on time, no problems. You do not need to go through security at HEL, only passport control.

Hello,

With AA canceling the JFK-BUD route, i have an option of being rerouted through HEL. however, the connection is 40 minutes? I have never flown AY or been in HEL and do not know if this is even duable. Please help. The Flights would be JFK-HEL-BUD

thank you in advance
Lenny

If you can take BA via LHR I'd recommend that. Much, much better onboard product than AY and even though LHR can be a mess sometimes a clean T5-T5 transfer is not that bad at all..

AY via HEL is most likely the quickest because of very short MCT, as ffay005 already confirmed to you.

thank you for responding.

I should have specified that I am flying in business class. They rebooked me automaticly on AA out of JFK to LHR then BA to BUD, with a 2 hour layover, my connection would be within T3.

flying through HEL, I arrive in BUD 2.5 hours earlier, however, if i miss the connection I need to wait till 5pm for the next flight out.

thank again

Being in J helps a little further, as you will be among the first to deplane. As said, if the plane is on time, 45 minutes is very much doable, wouldn't worry about it. Delays are of course another question, and hard to predict.

thank you for responding.

I should have specified that I am flying in business class. They rebooked me automaticly on AA out of JFK to LHR then BA to BUD, with a 2 hour layover, my connection would be within T3.

flying through HEL, I arrive in BUD 2.5 hours earlier, however, if i miss the connection I need to wait till 5pm for the next flight out.

thank again

With your connection being from T3 (I should have known that as Malev naturally flies to T3 as well) just take AY via HEL...being in J means that the onboard difference is little bit less too and in any case JFK-LHR/HEL is too short flight to really get a good night's sleep in any cabin/seat...AY6 departing ~6pm is really tough if your internal clock is set on EST..2-3hrs is good for me for most times..

I should have known that as Malev naturally flies to T3 as well
Malev flew to T3, it doesn't fly to anywhere now.

Malev flew to T3, it doesn't fly to anywhere now.

Oh really? A month in Asia and I'm clueless about everything..must do some further reading on that..

MCT @ HEL is 35 min. If AY6 is on time, no problems. You do not need to go through security at HEL, only passport control.

I thought that on arrival from long haul flights passengers DO have to pass security. And that only if arriving from within the EU, are they allowed into the transit area directly.

Security in HEL is thorough, but usually quick as they have a number of lanes open. And if travelling in J then the OP would be at the head of the line.

Also, from JFK AY typically flies the refurbished 330s with the flat bed, a product in my opinion superior to that of BA's.

I thought that on arrival from long haul flights passengers DO have to pass security. And that only if arriving from within the EU, are they allowed into the transit area directly.

EU has decided that the US security checks fulfill the EU requirements, and therefore no second check is required.
http://www.finavia.fi/press/pressreleases/finavia_releases/finavia_release?id=5101249

It's never been about long haul/short haul, but simply where the plane is coming from, a "not-so-long-haul" from LED will require a new check in HEL.

EU has decided that the US security checks fulfill the EU requirements, and therefore no second check is required.
http://www.finavia.fi/press/pressreleases/finavia_releases/finavia_release?id=5101249

It's never been about long haul/short haul, but simply where the plane is coming from, a "not-so-long-haul" from LED will require a new check in HEL.

Thanks for that. Yes, i meant to say EU flights only exempt but didn't know US was now included.

BTW, this is not consistently applied across Europe - it seems to be a local decision.

HEL is a breeze to connect in by comparison to other hubs.

Oh really? A month in Asia and I'm clueless about everything..must do some further reading on that..
That's no excuse. Of course you should follow FT daily. ;) :D

I just had a very bad experience with connecting in HEL and wanted to know if this is normal. We flew ICN-HEL-MXP. We arrived in HEL and cleared security (meaining the x-ray check). To connect, we had to go through passport control. I have never had so many questions - I thought all they would want to see is the passport and connecting boarding pass. They also wanted to see my invitation to work in Italy (which, as an American, I do not need), asked me what I did and who I worked for (to which he replied, he had never heard of my company before - which is a $20b multinational company), asked for a business card and a copy of my return ticket (which is electronic). After about 10 minutes, he finally let me clear though. My client, who was also with me, went through the same thing.

Is that normal connecting in HEL? I dont know that I would use HEL again if that is normal SOP.

Thanks.

I have never had so many questions - I thought all they would want to see is the passport and connecting boarding pass. They also wanted to see my invitation to work in Italy (which, as an American, I do not need), asked me what I did and who I worked for (to which he replied, he had never heard of my company before - which is a $20b multinational company), asked for a business card and a copy of my return ticket (which is electronic). After about 10 minutes, he finally let me clear though.


So, now You now the feeling when we from Europe arrive in the United States. :D

I just had a very bad experience with connecting in HEL and wanted to know if this is normal. We flew ICN-HEL-MXP. We arrived in HEL and cleared security (meaining the x-ray check). To connect, we had to go through passport control. I have never had so many questions - I thought all they would want to see is the passport and connecting boarding pass. They also wanted to see my invitation to work in Italy (which, as an American, I do not need), asked me what I did and who I worked for (to which he replied, he had never heard of my company before - which is a $20b multinational company), asked for a business card and a copy of my return ticket (which is electronic). After about 10 minutes, he finally let me clear though. My client, who was also with me, went through the same thing.

Is that normal connecting in HEL? I dont know that I would use HEL again if that is normal SOP.

Thanks.

I didnt get your ethnicity, but I assume you are of Asian descent.

Due to large amount of Chinese entering EU thru Finland, they are being quite strict. Me as Finnish national have had absolutely no problems, but I have seen this questioning happening quite often with Asian customers.

Generally they hammer out questions regarding your travel, and if you miss any of them you are escorted into interview. I would imagine that some of the chinese customers might have problems with English, thus occasionally you see this.

However, they play by the book, and if everything is ok, they will let you thru. It is strict but not arbitrary. And certainly it is not racistic.

Regarding the later points of company recognition, you cannot underestimate the financial ignorance of a border official :).

I didnt get your ethnicity, but I assume you are of Asian descent.

Due to large amount of Chinese entering EU thru Finland, they are being quite strict. Me as Finnish national have had absolutely no problems, but I have seen this questioning happening quite often with Asian customers.

....And certainly it is not racistic.



There's a bit of a contradiction in what you say!

At any rate, while certainly the 'welcome' Europeans receive in the US is not always the warmest, this experience as described in HEL is by no means standard for Americans across the EU.

So, now You now the feeling when we from Europe arrive in the United States. :D

My thoughts exactly! :D

I am not of Asian decent (American here) - we needed to get to MXP and wanted to stay with oneworld and Finnair had the best time and price.

If I was entering Finland, I would understand the questions (although they were much more than I have ever received in other European countries to which I have traveled (UK, France, NL, Belgium, Spain, Germany)) - but I was a passenger in transit. I have transferred in UK, Belgium, and Italy and have only been asked for my boarding pass (for the connecting flight) and passport - not the nature of my business in the country to which I was traveling OR proof of my ticket out of the next country.

There's a bit of a contradiction in what you say!

At any rate, while certainly the 'welcome' Europeans receive in the US is not always the warmest, this experience as described in HEL is by no means standard for Americans across the EU.

I think you refer to my last comment regarding racism.

I just wanted to point out that it is not easy as easy to get into EU while coming from Asia, than if you are coming from US. My points are based on pure facts that border guards want to do their job properly. Their job is to screen everybody that might have problems with entry to EU.

Its their job to screen, and everything is ok, you can expect 0 problems in HEL.

If I was entering Finland, I would understand the questions (although they were much more than I have ever received in other European countries to which I have traveled (UK, France, NL, Belgium, Spain, Germany)) - but I was a passenger in transit. I have transferred in UK, Belgium, and Italy and have only been asked for my boarding pass (for the connecting flight) and passport - not the nature of my business in the country to which I was traveling OR proof of my ticket out of the next country.

The whole idea of the Schengen area is that all the questions are asked at the point of entry to the Schengen area. And in your case that was HEL. And the Finnish border guards' responsibility is to catch people trying illegally to other Schengen countries as well. And as it was pointed out, Helsinki has become popular entry point for illegal Asian immigrants that are heading to elsewhere in Europe. There also has been cases where human trafficking has been involved.

They probably just decided to question the people entering at that time through non-EU lines little more carefully and since they are not supposed to do ethnic profiling, the US citizens got the same treatment as anyone else. And US citizens sometimes break their visa exemption rules as well.

So, now You know the feeling when we from Europe arrive in the United States. :D

You couldn't have said it better. :-D

I am not of Asian decent (American here) - we needed to get to MXP and wanted to stay with oneworld and Finnair had the best time and price.

If I was entering Finland, I would understand the questions

As mentioned above, you were entering Schengen Europe, basically it doesn't matter which country. When you get in, you are free to travel inside the Schengen zone, no one is checking you at borders after that.

I was stopped for a "couple" of questions in Munich once when I was flying from Dubai to Helsinki. It was a bit annoying but it happens sometimes when you are entering the Schengen Europe.

So, now You now the feeling when we from Europe arrive in the United States. :D

+1

So true! Reminds me on one entry via Miami from S.A. when my passport was confiscated and I needed to wait an hour in some room at immigration..when they finally gave my passport back no comments were made why they did it, even when I politely asked...luckily I was not connecting.

To Jimboliguy, 10mins at point of entry into Schengen...while not standard by any means just get over it and imagine what people go through on your native soil thousands of times every single day.

...
If I was entering Finland, I would understand the questions (although they were much more than I have ever received in other European countries to which I have traveled (UK, France, NL, Belgium, Spain, Germany)) - but I was a passenger in transit. I have transferred in UK, Belgium, and Italy and have only been asked for my boarding pass (for the connecting flight) and passport - not the nature of my business in the country to which I was traveling OR proof of my ticket out of the next country.

As others have said, as soon as you get off the plane, you are entering schengen, and you will be screened for entry. As you probably noticed when getting to MXP, you didn't need any screening for getting into italy. Borders are only guarded at the point of entry to the area, not individual countries. The regulations for how this entry is to be controlled is centrally dictated but locally enforced - different countries may interpret the regulations slightly different. Local conditions may also affect local procedures.

Having said this, I too have heard of the very strict border guards in Finland. So when I have chinese visitors coming in, I have in the past made sure they not only have their visas in order, but also a lot of supporting documents, even though they do not formally need that. To my surprise they never have had the need for this. The visa is checked and one or two follow up questions are made, then they are given entry.

So for your question if this is normal, I think
a) yes, the procedure is normal
b) the extra thorough screening of you is not normal in the sense of being the every day operations.

My guess is that there either have been some specific alert given to border guards and they were screening extra carefully certain incoming flights or that due to some athletic games held in London every authority in europe is on high alert.




As a side note, UK is not a part of schengen area, and have other border control regulations.

due to some athletic games held in London every authority in europe is on high alert.


Understatement of the year to call the Olympics "some athletic games" :D

So, now You now the feeling when we from Europe arrive in the United States. :D

I think this of being a rather childish attitude. Smooth border controls benefit everyone.

I think this of being a rather childish attitude. Smooth border controls benefit everyone.

They do indeed but US immigration is beyond common sense, really..(especially for nationals included in the Visa Waiver program) and having a US citizen/passport holder complaining about 10mins Schengen entry is clearly a point where you'd expect people to crack a joke or two.

Full support to OH-LGG from my side!

Just to clarify my original comments/questions:

1. Based on my experience at other transit points in Europe (UK, Belgium, Spain, Switzerland and Milan), it was generally a quick and easy process. Show passport and connecting BP and off I went - I was just surprised how difficult it was in Finland.

2. My complaint about 10 minutes - it took me 10 minutes from the time I stepped up to the agent until the time we were done - not from the time I arrived at passport control. Not sure how that compares to normal US entry for non-US residents.

3. I had an enjoyable experience on FinnAir and would consider them again for my travel BUT if the transit process is generally as difficult as I encountered last week, I dont think I will use them to transfer.

Thanks.

hey would want to see is the passport and connecting boarding pass. They also wanted to see my invitation to work in Italy (which, as an American, I do not need)

US nationals DO NEED a work permit to work in Europe. Only EU nationals DO NOT need to have a work permit to work at any other EU country (excluding Bulgarian/Rumanian nationals, but I might be wrong). There might be some exceptions, but when you use word 'work' the Immigration officials have a right to question you. There are strict regulations in both EU and USA what you can and cannot do traveling visa-free.

PS. The exceptions may include: when you e.g. give training to someone on-site in the other country and do not get extra money for this, you do not break respective county's Immigration law etc...

Just to clarify my original comments/questions:

3. I had an enjoyable experience on FinnAir and would consider them again for my travel BUT if the transit process is generally as difficult as I encountered last week, I dont think I will use them to transfer.

Thanks.

"Generally" is a difficult concept, but I have had a lot of of friends and business associates from the US, Asia and Russia arrive in Helsinki without such questioning.

Generally I sense a lot of anxiety in this thread. I dont understand why border controls are such a big deal.

You stand in front of the gatekeeper, and its his job to check wheter you are in or out. Would be quite foolish to start demanding anything, so better shut up, smile and answer the questions. Outcome depends really on you, and not the border guard so why blame the border guard?

Well, I guess it depends on how the checking is done. Even if you have no doubt in your mind that you "are in", being repeatedly questioned can make you feel insecure and a bit helpless, resulting in anxiety and/or whining. FT's are not immune...

I once landed in AKL and was stopped on the jet bridge and taken for a 5 minute immigrations interview on the spot. Then the normal immigrations did
the same at the gates, very curious if and why I was traveling alone, details about my reservations and so on.
I was baffled and a pretty annoyed. Sure they were in the right to ask questions, but it was rather aggressive and probably triggered my answers to be in a way that rose further suspicion and rendered further questions. Of course there was no problem in the end, and visa was granted.

I recently landed in CPH. I was quite absent minded when entering immigrations, since I'm so sure "I am in". The guard asked some very nice polite questions how the trip had been, and we chatted a bit about this and that, including the poor weather this summer.
It was only a few hours later I understood he was not just chatty, he was probing to see if anything seemed suspicious and needed further checking.

I think both guards did their jobs, but the danish guard did it better.

Well, I guess it depends on how the checking is done. Even if you have no doubt in your mind that you "are in", being repeatedly questioned can make you feel insecure and a bit helpless, resulting in anxiety and/or whining. FT's are not immune...

I once landed in AKL and was stopped on the jet bridge and taken for a 5 minute immigrations interview on the spot. Then the normal immigrations did
the same at the gates, very curious if and why I was traveling alone, details about my reservations and so on.
I was baffled and a pretty annoyed. Sure they were in the right to ask questions, but it was rather aggressive and probably triggered my answers to be in a way that rose further suspicion and rendered further questions. Of course there was no problem in the end, and visa was granted.

I recently landed in CPH. I was quite absent minded when entering immigrations, since I'm so sure "I am in". The guard asked some very nice polite questions how the trip had been, and we chatted a bit about this and that, including the poor weather this summer.
It was only a few hours later I understood he was not just chatty, he was probing to see if anything seemed suspicious and needed further checking.

I think both guards did their jobs, but the danish guard did it better.

The "problem" is the inconsistency of service.

I've never had _bad_ experiences with immigration, but I travel to the US quite alot, and the difference is just massive:

Worst was in Seattle. I had a LHR-SEA YVR-LHR ticket, and for some reason it showed at CBP's computers as a one-way ticket. The immigration officer started, and I quote directly: "So you couldn't get a job in your own country?"
I was tempted to say "actually, yeah I can. But apparently the nigerian woman who sat next to me, who needed help with her customs form because she couldn't write properly, was fine to travel with a green card..."
(I helped her out because she couldn't read or write, but she had a valid green card. Go figure :)

10 minutes later I was let through with the normal WT stamp.

Funniest was last time in IAD. No fingerprints, no photo, just "hey, you seem to come here often. Welcome back". No questions, nothing. Took literally less than 10 seconds. For some reason, my entry stamp was tagged WB this time :)

The "problem" is the inconsistency of service.

Funniest was last time in IAD. No fingerprints, no photo, just "hey, you seem to come here often. Welcome back". No questions, nothing. Took literally less than 10 seconds. For some reason, my entry stamp was tagged WB this time :)

Yep, it's really strange indeed..I have entered the US dozens of times through many different airports..once in Vegas the whole BA plane from London was waived through w/o fingerprints/photos..weird indeed as the chain is as strong as the weakest link..if they skip it once, why bother at all..I don't understand many things and among them is the US border control/immigration system..

Yep, it's really strange indeed..I have entered the US dozens of times through many different airports..once in Vegas the whole BA plane from London was waived through w/o fingerprints/photos..weird indeed as the chain is as strong as the weakest link..if they skip it once, why bother at all..I don't understand many things and among them is the US border control/immigration system..

The whole ESTA system is funny if you ask me. It takes 0,001 seconds to get an approval.

I think it just checks that your surname doesn't contain any "buzzwords" such as bin, al etc...

The whole ESTA system is funny if you ask me. It takes 0,001 seconds to get an approval.

I think it just checks that your surname doesn't contain any "buzzwords" such as bin, al etc...

Poor Mr James Albin [fictional name] :D

The whole ESTA system is funny if you ask me. It takes 0,001 seconds to get an approval.

I think it just checks that your surname doesn't contain any "buzzwords" such as bin, al etc...

For most of the european citizen you will get the ESTA approval in seconds, still some other nationalities may have to wait approval for several hours - a day, so "favorable = not that threatening country citizens" may not be able to see "the point"... Which country is the threatening one may vary time to time...

For most of the european citizen you will get the ESTA approval in seconds, still some other nationalities may have to wait approval for several hours - a day, so "favorable = not that threatening country citizens" may not be able to see "the point"... Which country is the threatening one may vary time to time...

In 2010 I was doing ESTA for myself and some relatives. All the adult males had to wait until the next day to see their application approved. All the kids plus ladies were approved immediately. I am sure there's a lesson somewhere here.