Korean Air Skypass - KE increases domestic flights from ICN

KE adds more domestic flights from ICN from March, 2012. ICN-PUS from 2 to 3 daily, and a new daily ICN-CJU. I'm not sure whether ICN-TAE was 2 daily since earlier - I think KE recently added one. All flights work very well with international flights from/to ICN. Especially newer PUS flight is awesome for connecting KE's European flights.

ICN-PUS: 850-955, 1730-1835(new one), 2030-2135
PUS-ICN: 700-805, 1025-1130(new one), 1655-1800

ICN-TAE: 830-925, 1920-2015
TAE-ICN: 705-805, 1630-1730

ICN-CJU: 1905-2010(new one)
CJU-ICN: 1700-1805(new one)

On a side note, KE used to have the 3rd ICN-PUS flight long ago. Also, KE was trying to make PUS-ICN flights as international (just like one of JL's NRT-Osaka flights, do e/immigration at PUS) to increase passenger's convenience, but Asiana (who has Air Busan) strongly opposed it along with Busan airport authority who concerned that there will be less direct international flights from PUS. So that plan was canceled.

KE adds more domestic flights from ICN from March, 2012. ICN-PUS from 2 to 3 daily, and a new daily ICN-CJU. I'm not sure whether ICN-TAE was 2 daily since earlier - I think KE recently added one. All flights work very well with international flights from/to ICN. Especially newer PUS flight is awesome for connecting KE's European flights.

ICN-PUS: 850-955, 1730-1835(new one), 2030-2135
PUS-ICN: 700-805, 1025-1130(new one), 1655-1800

ICN-TAE: 830-925, 1920-2015
TAE-ICN: 705-805, 1630-1730

ICN-CJU: 1905-2010(new one)
CJU-ICN: 1700-1805(new one)

On a side note, KE used to have the 3rd ICN-PUS flight long ago. Also, KE was trying to make PUS-ICN flights as international (just like one of JL's NRT-Osaka flights, do e/immigration at PUS) to increase passenger's convenience, but Asiana (who has Air Busan) strongly opposed it along with Busan airport authority who concerned that there will be less direct international flights from PUS. So that plan was canceled.

IMO SEL-PUS is overserved. KE+OZ have more than 20x daily!

IMO SEL-PUS is overserved. KE+OZ have more than 20x daily!

Both KE and Air Busan (on behalf of OZ) are operating nearly every hour on GMP-PUS, but it's not convenient for those transfer to international flights at ICN.

I assume these are strictly domestic flights. I could see how the ICN-CJU flight might be more useful if it was an international flight. Mainland Korea and Jeju Island have different visa policies. Some countries' nationals cannot enter mainland Korea without a visa, and it can be nearly impossible to get for an average citizen. Jeju though allows many of those to visit without a visa. I know of a few people personally who would love to go visit Korea but cannot due to this issue, and trying to transfer via other international airports adds a lot to the cost and difficulty. Jeju was recently chosen as one of the seven wonders of nature, or something like that. Don't know that it'll make a huge difference, but some people are bound to see it on the list and decide they'd like to go visit Jeju.

I assume these are strictly domestic flights. I could see how the ICN-CJU flight might be more useful if it was an international flight. Mainland Korea and Jeju Island have different visa policies.

I think the visa policy difference is working for Chinese only. But even without visa, via ICN (include ICN-GMP transfer) is allowed (or soon will be allowed). Although it's not confirmed yet, the new ICN-CJU will be double priced than GMP-CJU (if without international connection), to prevent domestic usage as much as possible. And eventually it may be an international flight - it seems KE and ICN airport are still trying to make domestic flights to/from ICN international ones.

I think the visa policy difference is working for Chinese only.

When I checked about the visa requirements for CJU, there was absolutely no mention of Chinese. It was just a general no visa required, with the given restrictions regarding return ticket, etc. There were a few countries which were prohibited from entering via this method. Naturally though the Chinese would benefit the most from such, being their the closest and largest country that's able to take advantage of this visa exemption.

Anyways, I would think it would be advantageous for tourism to Jeju if they can make these routes international. It's not an issue for me, but I know for some countries where the visa issue is a hassle, I usually just forgo visiting that country if it's just for leisure travel. There's lots of places that make it easy for me to visit, and I'll give them my tourist dollars before a country that seemingly doesn't want me.

KE was trying to make PUS-ICN flights as international

This is approved, so from April 2nd, passport control will be done at PUS and the flights will use international gates at ICN. Minimum connection time will be decreased substantially: from 80 min to 45 for inbound traffic and 75 (or 60?) to 45 for outbound. Asiana's 1 daily PUS-ICN flight will also be "only for transfer passengers" in near future. No plan for other domestic routes (ICN-CJU, ICN-TAE), though.

When I checked about the visa requirements for CJU, there was absolutely no mention of Chinese.

I didn't aware that. But Jeju visa waiver targets Chinese tourist mostly.

This is approved, so from April 2nd, passport control will be done at PUS and the flights will use international gates at ICN. Minimum connection time will be decreased substantially: from 80 min to 45 for inbound traffic and 75 (or 60?) to 45 for outbound. Asiana's 1 daily PUS-ICN flight will also be "only for transfer passengers" in near future. No plan for other domestic routes (ICN-CJU, ICN-TAE), though.

For me, I don't really see a huge advantage in doing this for the PUS route. Whether you clear immigration at ICN or at PUS it's the same, except I suppose they'll be able to have your luggage checked through, so no hassle with collecting it and rechecking it. Time-wise though, it's just shifting the extra needed for customs/immigration from ICN to PUS. but I doubt will help much in the total time, except for a bit on the inbound to Korea direction. I did ICN-PUS on OZ last week and will be doing PUS-ICN on OZ in a few days, but I'm about a week too early to check out how the new setup works.

Does PUS have the ability to transfer international-to-international without entering Korea? If so, there could be an additional advantage there for certain passengers if they want to connect between two international flights using a third ICN-PUS flight, without ever needing to be checked into Korea.

IMHO, it's a shame they don't do this same thing with CJU, due to the visa issue I mentioned. I think both OZ and KE would benefit some if they did. At CJU they're doing some major remodeling/additions. I wonder if when they're finished if they'll be any more prepared to be able to do something like this.

One advantage for the airlines in making all these international routes would be they'd no longer have the need to shuffle aircraft at ICN. The plane could remain at the same gate for the "domestic" segment as the international segment. I don't know about KE, but I'm sure OZ flies in from some international airport to ICN, then moves the aircraft to a domestic gate before heading to PUS. And similar for the other way around. Plus at PUS the plane then heads off to some international airport. Less aircraft movement will mean the aircraft will have a shorter turnaround time.

One issue if they do eventually make all ICN flights international would be what to do with the domestic area at ICN. It might be easy enough to remodel it, but one problem is the air bridges are just single units, not double units for handling business/first class separate from economy. I guess they could limit those gates to just small aircraft which only use a single door anyways.

On an unrelated note, I was in CJU two weeks ago, and while heading to PUS there was a major queue at the passport check counter, with all the passengers being Chinese. I'm not exactly sure where they were going. They weren't on my flight, so likely heading to GMP. My guess is maybe they had just arrived on a flight from China to CJU, then connected to the mainland. It's really a pain when something like that happens, due to not knowing how long in advance you need to check-in and leave the lounge. It caused me to be the last person on my flight, and held up the flight. Changing ICN-CJU-ICN to international I don't think would have any effect on this situation, but perhaps with the remodeling they'll have more capacity and be able to handle this better in the future.

Edit: after posting, I just realized one key issue about this. Changing the flight to international means we'll now have a lounge to use before the flight to PUS, and a nice one at that, not the crappy domestic lounges like at GMP, or the non-existent domestic lounge at ICN.

For me, I don't really see a huge advantage in doing this for the PUS route. Whether you clear immigration at ICN or at PUS it's the same, except I suppose they'll be able to have your luggage checked through, so no hassle with collecting it and rechecking it. Time-wise though, it's just shifting the extra needed for customs/immigration from ICN to PUS. but I doubt will help much in the total time, except for a bit on the inbound to Korea direction.

Edit: after posting, I just realized one key issue about this. Changing the flight to international means we'll now have a lounge to use before the flight to PUS, and a nice one at that, not the crappy domestic lounges like at GMP, or the non-existent domestic lounge at ICN.

Well, yes, there seems almost nothing near domestic gates after security at ICN (no shops, no convenient store, no coffee place, although I might be wrong). And shorter connection time is always welcome. I was told KE will eventually increase ICN-PUS to 6 dailies once KE got approved for this international thing. (KE may change its mind, though.) If then, it will be super convenient for the passengers.

ICN-CJU should be converted to international-transfer-passengers-only flights because otherwise weekend flights will be filled with those who couldn't grab GMP-CJU seats.

By the way, I didn't hear anything about PUS "transfer desk" for international-internatioal transfer and there's nothing about transfer on PUS airport website.

One interesting statistics is that leisure traffic prefers ICN over GMP due to better facility and shopping, etc. I guess Busan-based leisure passengers want to transfer at ICN for the same reason, but they cannot because it's usually too expensive. Business traffic would also want to transfer at ICN for more frequent flights out of ICN unless it is too much detouring (i.e. PUS-Japan). Once KE sets up multiple flights to ICN, things will slowly change.

Well, yes, there seems almost nothing near domestic gates after security at ICN (no shops, no convenient store, no coffee place, although I might be wrong). And shorter connection time is always welcome.

You're correct. There is absolutely nothing after security for the domestic gates at ICN, or at least I didn't see anything there two weeks ago when I last used it. But security takes all of 30 seconds, so no need to rush in there until the last minute before boarding closes. If I need to eat or drink anything, I do it before going through security.

One interesting statistics is that leisure traffic prefers ICN over GMP due to better facility and shopping, etc. I guess Busan-based leisure passengers want to transfer at ICN for the same reason, but they cannot because it's usually too expensive. Business traffic would also want to transfer at ICN for more frequent flights out of ICN unless it is too much detouring (i.e. PUS-Japan). Once KE sets up multiple flights to ICN, things will slowly change.

Well, even though ICN is further than GMP, and the limousine bus is a lot more expensive to ICN (I think for me, about double - 12,000 Won vs. 6,000 Won), I'd choose ICN every time over GMP. I personally couldn't care less about the shopping, though realize those who do like shopping would also prefer ICN. For me, ICN is just so much more comfortable, with the lounge being the main point for me. If it was just a strictly domestic flight though, without international lounge access, I'd probably choose GMP, because the extra time and cost to get to ICN isn't worth it for such a short flight.

I think some people though do prefer GMP, or else they wouldn't have the few international flights from GMP that they do. My guess though is that those who prefer it are regulars on the short hops from Korea, so like the fact that it's faster and more convenient, given it's closer proximity to Seoul and generally shorter passport control queues. For short international flights, I think people tend to categorize them in with domestic flights as to what their expectations are.

Every time I visit PUS, it seems to me the airport is running at near or over capacity. There never seems to be enough gates for the flights, and we park at a remote stand and get bussed more than half the time. I've not been in the KE international lounge there, but the OZ international lounge is very basic, and not really any different from the crappy domestic lounges in my opinion, other than they have alcohol and restrooms inside the lounge. Food (junk food snacks) are nearly the exact horrible stuff and selection as domestic lounges, with no hot food, salad, sandwiches, etc. So it's no wonder anyone who flies in premium classes and/or has status to enter the lounges would prefer to fly via ICN. Doing so wouldn't be so much different than someone who takes a limousine bus to their airport for a flight. You have few if any services on the bus, but once you get to the airport you have a lot of services. The same with the flight - for PUS-ICN, few services at PUS or on the 50-minute commute, but once you get to ICN you have a lot.

For inexperienced travelers, they're probably just going to choose PUS if it's the closest to them. For experienced flyers though, I think they'll generally choose ICN if possible, except for to Japan, etc. as you mentioned.

I just had a look at the KE and OZ websites for booking this flight. Already KE prohibits booking ICN-PUS or PUS-ICN, but OZ still allows it. I assumed from your comments that both KE and OZ will be making this an "international" flight. Correct?

Already KE prohibits booking ICN-PUS or PUS-ICN, but OZ still allows it. I assumed from your comments that both KE and OZ will be making this an "international" flight. Correct?

I do appreciate your insight.

Only KE is ready for this, and actually OZ has been opposed to this idea to protect its LCC, Air Busan. Now Asiana is also working on the same thing, so soon you won't be able to book, either.

ICN TAE was already 2 Daily in Summer 2011.

A correction to one of my previous comments about the domestic departure gate area at ICN. I was there last night and noticed there is a very small shop that sells some snacks, drinks, and ice cream. I guess it was closed on my previous trip there because I didn't notice it then, but last night it was open. Prices though are about double what you'd pay at any of the convenience stores landside at ICN, and the selection is extremely basic.

A correction to one of my previous comments about the domestic departure gate area at ICN. I was there last night and noticed there is a very small shop that sells some snacks, drinks, and ice cream.

Thanks for your update !!

ICN TAE was already 2 Daily in Summer 2011.

Thanks for the correction. My reference was incorrect, then.