EL AL Matmid - Hand luggage silliness

I can understand it when an airline limits the size of your hand luggage. Clearly, if everyone could carry giant luggage on board there would not be enough bin space.

I can understand it when an airline limits the weight of your luggage. The more it weighs, the more fuel is needed, and that is a major airline expense.

What I can not understand is when an airline limits the weight you have in your hand luggage and makes you put it in your checked luggage.

I took my UIG (Used Italian Girlfriend) to TLV today for a flight to MXP. Her hand luggage weight 11 kilos, which is 3 kilos over the limit for Economy Class. Her checked luggage, however, was not near its permitted limit.

At check in, they insisted that she take 3 kilos of stuff out of her hand luggage and put it in her checked luggage.

Why?

It did not save any room -- her roller bag is the same size if it is empty or full.

It did not save any money -- El Al carried the same total weight no matter where it was located.

It could not be for safety purposes. LY permits 16 kilos in Biz or FC so it is clearly not afraid that a heavier bag will cause more damage if it lands on someone's head.

So what the heck is the purpose of making her stand there, taking stuff out of her hand luggage, opening her checked suitcase, and putting things inside of it?

It's foolishness like this which makes me happy that my Biz Elite flight to the US next week is on Delta. Yes, the size of my hand luggage is limited but I am allowed up to 20 kilos in it (and I have never come close to that). Moreover, I would be permitted the same weight even if I were in Economy.

To tell the truth, however, Delta has never weighed my hand luggage. If it is no bigger than permitted, Delta doesn't really worry about how much it weighs.

Perhaps just a stupid clerk? You get them in all airports and airlines.

the thing is: there are rules. and israelis like to bend the rules.
i suppose that if Delta told you the same thing, you wouldnt complian and post here.

there is a famouse saying that many american companies say when asked for something like you wanted: "company policy". and that's it.

many times ElAl bends the rules for its passangers, and sometimes they dont. you might not know the reason (maybe the supervisor was on call and watched the process ?!)

the thing is: there are rules. and israelis like to bend the rules.
i suppose that if Delta told you the same thing, you wouldnt complian and post here.

there is a famouse saying that many american companies say when asked for something like you wanted: "company policy". and that's it.

many times ElAl bends the rules for its passangers, and sometimes they dont. you might not know the reason (maybe the supervisor was on call and watched the process ?!)

Of course if Delta told me the same thing, under the same circumstances, I would post here about how ridiculous it is.

If, indeed, a supervisor was watching the process then it is even worse -- a supervisor, certainly, should have stepped in and pointed out that making a passenger move 3 kilos from hand luggage to checked baggage, gives the company not a whit of benefit and merely annoys the passenger and delays the check in line.

Again, if this was safety issue I would not complain -- but it is not.

If my girlfriend's total baggage weight was over the limit, I could understand LY making her pay extra -- but it was not.

If removing the 3 kilos resulted in a smaller piece of hand luggage, thus freeing up room in the bins, I also would not have made the post -- but that was not the case here.

There was no logic involved in this at all.

There was no logic involved in this at all.

Dovster - I agree with you 100%. It's little things like this that annoy me, and probably most other passengers.

I think your first mistake was confusing the airline business with logic... :)

Had the same thing happen to me on Austrian Airlines in December. Wrote to them to complain about it and they wrote back telling me that this rule was for "safety" reasons. It's absurd, since US allows 20 kilos and UA doesn't seem to have any limit - it is size based, and it just makes me more likely to fly carriers that don't indulge in such foolishness. Even EasyJet does it only based on size. At other airports you can get around this by checking in at a kiosk where they don't weigh your hand luggage. At TLV, there doesn't seem to be a way around it other than having a friend wait for you with 3kg of your stuff while you check in and then put it back into your carryon after you have done so. My experience with LY is that it's random and depends who you get as an agent. If it's really busy, I have told them that I'm going to take some things out of my bag and then go stand in another line with another agent.

Hi

The limitation on weight of hand baggage is indeed for safety reasons. The overhead bins have a maximum weight capacity, beyond which stowage is unsafe. In order to avoid exceeding the maximum weight given the volume of storage space, the weight for each bag is limited to 8kg. Especially when the flight is full and the volume of the bins is expected to be full, it is critical to enforce the weight limitation.

This limit is higher in Business and First class because there are less passengers (and less bags) occupying the overhead bins, and each passenger may therefore safely stow more baggage in the overhead bins without exceeding the maximum weight capacity.

Best,

Liat Kaplan
Social media manager
EL AL

Hi

The limitation on weight of hand baggage is indeed for safety reasons. The overhead bins have a maximum weight capacity, beyond which stowage is unsafe. In order to avoid exceeding the maximum weight given the volume of storage space, the weight for each bag is limited to 8kg. Especially when the flight is full and the volume of the bins is expected to be full, it is critical to enforce the weight limitation.

This limit is higher in Business and First class because there are less passengers (and less bags) occupying the overhead bins, and each passenger may therefore safely stow more baggage in the overhead bins without exceeding the maximum weight capacity.

Best,

Liat Kaplan
Social media manager
EL AL


If this is true then why is the USAirways Baggage Policy as Follows: (quoting)

"You're allowed one carry-on bag and one personal item. Personal items include a purse, briefcase or laptop bag.

Up to 45 in/115 cm (14 x 9 x 22 in or 36 x 23 x 56 cm)
Up to 40 lbs/18 kg"

They also fly 767s and 737s and don't seem to see it as a safety issue. Arbitrary rules like this for no reason by ElAl management is just another reason why I have Chairman status on USAirways and Platinum on Delta and rarely fly ElAl if I can avoid it. Last year I flew over 140k miles on a variety of airlines and if you want travelers like me to fly El Al you won't make unjustified rules like this to encourage more bag checking and then mask it in the name of "safety".

If this is true then why is the USAirways Baggage Policy as Follows: (quoting)


The US Airways planes have bins made from the same manufacturer at the same time using the same materials? I really don't find the rule to be arbitrary at all. Makes sense to me.

My first job out of college was as an Aerospace engineer manufacturing aircraft and train interiors. USAirways flies the 767-200ER and the 757-200 like El Al, chances are pretty good that they are made from the same materials, to the same specifications, and I don't think that somehow this rule is because of the other aircraft in the fleet. This is arbitrary, plain and simple. LY isn't the only airline to have this sort of ridiculous rule, but I prefer to fly airlines that don't have such unnecessary rules.

The US Airways planes have bins made from the same manufacturer at the same time using the same materials? I really don't find the rule to be arbitrary at all. Makes sense to me.

Delta, as I mentioned, allows 20 kilos per passenger, even in Economy.

It is possible that El Al is using inferior bins made from weaker material than are Delta or US. If that is the case, then I can understand why it would need the stricter weight limitations. I could not, however, understand why it would risk passenger safety with inferior equipment.

Perhaps Liat can tell us if this is true or not.

(I have this fear of people going through LY check in with bags that weigh 8 kilos, loading up with items in the Duty Free that bring the weigh way above the permitted amount, and bags falling out of these inferior bins smashing passengers in the head.)

It is possible that El Al is using inferior bins made from weaker material than are Delta or US. If that is the case, then I can understand why it would need the stricter weight limitations. I could not, however, understand why it would risk passenger safety with inferior equipment.


If one car is built to sustain a crash at 140 kmh and another is built to sustain a crash at 200 kmh we can say that the one that is built to sustain a 140kmh crash is inferior. But it isn't a risk so long as you ensure that people don't drive more than 140 kmh in the car only built to sustain a crash at that speed.

But it isn't a risk so long as you ensure that people don't drive more than 140 kmh in the car only built to sustain a crash at that speed.

But no one does enforce the 8 kilo limit -- at least not at the only important point, which is when you get on the plane.

I could, for example, have 10 kilos of small but heavy items with me which I could give to my girlfriend in the Buy and Bye -- after she has already checked in. In that case, her 8 kilo luggage would now weigh 18 kilos.

For that matter, on one trip to the States, long before "Netbooks" were invented, I went to the Duty Free shop and bought a large ThinkPad. With its accessories, it had to weigh about 4 kilos all by itself.

Or, as my girlfriend was flying TLV-MXP directly, with no connecting flight in Europe, she was free to take as many bottles of liquor as she wanted from Duty Free. That, too, can be quite heavy.

When you board, a gate agent might notice that your hand luggage is too large and make you gate check it, but nobody is going to know how heavy it is.

In short, if El Al truly has cabin bins of inferior quality (which I doubt) that can only handle 8 kilos per passenger, as opposed to Delta's 20 kilos, then it is putting passengers at risk to save a few dollars.

If one car is built to sustain a crash at 140 kmh and another is built to sustain a crash at 200 kmh we can say that the one that is built to sustain a 140kmh crash is inferior. But it isn't a risk so long as you ensure that people don't drive more than 140 kmh in the car only built to sustain a crash at that speed.

Airlines can choose a lot of options when configuring interiors - where to place the lavs, what seats or IFE equipment, but I have never heard of them offering weaker luggage racks as an option. There is absolutely NO reason for this rule, other than the airlines wanting to encourage smaller carry-ons. Their reasons for doing so may be in order to make boarding easier or to make people more likely to check bags (and get charged for them), but safety is NOT a real reason for something like this, so let's please put that argument to rest.

It doesnt make sense and of course trying to have a discussion with the agent (who is only doing their job) would be pointless exercise in futility.

Could be that there was a serious safety incident which is why they are being so diligent with it now.

I usually carry a knapsack that maybe has a total weight of 3 pounds. And they (in TLV) still tell me they need to weigh it. :rolleyes:

But as you correctly noted, folks sometimes have very large and heavy amounts of duty free that comes out of the flights from TLV. It could be that management is trying to account for this when figuring out the weight tolerance for the overhead bins.

Maybe they are just trying to align their standards with other airlines who are poised to join OW.

From my flight this evening:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-yQntiGp68GM/T0PIz0WWHPI/AAAAAAAAAD4/7-OG_2yEJ6I/s400/IMG-20120221-00124.jpg

Maybe they are just trying to align their standards with other airlines who are poised to join OW.

From my flight this evening:
<IMAGE SNIP>

We have a winner!