TalkBoard Topics - Comments Welcome: Voting Underway-Create Spirit Airlines Forum

Moved by RichMSN and seconded by kokonutz:

A forum be created for Spirit Airlines.

This vote will close on February 22, 2012 at 9:05 am or after all TalkBoard members have registered their vote, whichever comes first.

Per the TalkBoard Guidelines:

A motion shall pass if at least two-thirds of the yes or no votes cast by TalkBoard members are ‘yes’ and a majority of the total TalkBoard membership votes 'yes.'

The purpose of posting voting topics in the public TalkBoard Topics forum is to solicit member feedback on any motions that are up for a vote and to allow for comments after a vote is made. It is at the sole discretion of the individual TalkBoard members whether they choose to post in the public discussion thread, there being no requirement to do so.

So while there is already a thread and discussion on this general topic and it is safe to assume that TalkBoard members have reviewed that thread, this thread is about this specific motion.

Please feel free to post questions, comments or any other sort of feedback in this thread, or in the other discussion thread(s).

I don't really see a passionate enough following or volume behind Spirit to support a standalone forum.

I think that they're housed well enough in the "Other North America & South America FFP" forum.

I haven't voted as yet & will give it some time before I do, but at this time, I don't see the need or the volume to make this forum a successful one.

I'd agree with you. Spirit generates enough (bad) publicity to give them a forum... if only to protect (new) members of Flyertalk. I think a heads up is valuable.

I'd agree with you. Spirit generates enough (bad) publicity to give them a forum... if only to protect (new) members of Flyertalk. I think a heads up is valuable.

I'm confused. Are you saying you support the forum or don't? Your first sentence implies not; your other sentences implies yes.

I'm inclined to agree with bhatnasx in that I don't see a lot of posts (5-7/mth) to justify a stand-alone forum & think it being in its current location is fine, but I've not voted yet & will wait to see input from FTers since a public notice has been done.

BTW - it should be noted that sudden post-padding to try & increase volume to justify the forum would be caught by the mods.

Cheers.

It is easy to dismiss the airline, but the fact of the matter is that Spirit is one of the few airlines that is consistently making money these days. They have a bunch of planes coming online over the next few years, and they seem to be focusing on domestic expansion more than the international, as in past years.

While Flyertalkers as a whole seem to avoid Spirit, there must be somebody flying them, else the planes would not be full. As the airline expands into more cities, more people will find their way onto the Flyertalk site and want to research/debate/read about Spirit.

In all fairness, though Spirit may appeal to a niche audience, the fact is that the audience is growing due to people not being able to afford the major carriers, as well as the fact that some Spirit airports were previously without commercial service (Latrobe, Mesa, etc.), which will grow the flying market.

My personal opinion is that Spirit sort of gets looked over being stuck in the "Other..." forum. Considering the controversy that surrounds Spirit, I think even unabashed Spirit haters would post in a dedicated forum.

I don't think there's enough traffic right now to jusify a forum for Spirit.

I don't think there's enough traffic right now to jusify a forum for Spirit.

I just did a bit of research & would tend to agree with you.

Threads per month:

Feb '12 (to date): 9
Jan '12: 8
Dec '11: 6
Nov '11; 4
Oct '11: 10
Sept '11: 2
Aug '11: 3
July '11: 6
June '11: 9
May '11; 2
Apr '11: 1
Mar '11: 5
Feb '11: 4
Jan '11: 6
Dec '10: 5
Nov '10: 2
Oct '10: 0
Sep '10: 3
Aug '10: 4
July '10: 4
June '10: 5
May '10: 3
Apr '10: 6
Mar '10: 6
Feb '10: 1
Jan '10: 1

Cheers.

NK doesn't deserve it's own forum as it is not the best airline for the FF community.

NK doesn't deserve it's own forum as it is not the best airline for the FF community.

Since when is this a criteria? And, well, what do you mean?

And, well, what do you mean?

Thanks for asking. I was wondering the same thing.

Cheers.

NK doesn't deserve it's own forum as it is not the best airline for the FF community.
... well, what do you mean?

Thanks for asking. I was wondering the same thing.
I'll play.

Could it be North Korea? :p

I'll play.

Could it be North Korea? :p

I knew Spirit is NK. It's the "doesn't deserve it's own forum as it is not the best airline for the FF community" bit I don't get.

Our forums aren't an endorsement of airlines and their FF programs, after all.

I knew what NK meant; it was the rest of the sentence I was wondering about.

Cheers.

I knew Spirit is NK. It's the "doesn't deserve it's own forum as it is not the best airline for the FF community" bit I don't get.

Our forums aren't an endorsement of airlines and their FF programs, after all.

If they were I'd be for shutting the United forum down. Smisek has utterly ruined that program!

I don't see easyjet or Ryanair with their own forums. Their planes are always full and people love to hate them too!

There is no need... Based on posts alone. You do it for this airline and what about the rest of the LCC around the world?

I don't see easyjet or Ryanair with their own forums. Their planes are always full and people love to hate them too!

There is no need... Based on posts alone. You do it for this airline and what about the rest of the LCC around the world?

We either create forums or we don't. Creating one doesn't mean we have to create 50.

If they were I'd be for shutting the United forum down. Smisek has utterly ruined that program!

Hear, Hear!!!!!
I "like" you but it is at different site :D

I don't think there's enough traffic right now to jusify a forum for Spirit.I tend to agree with you and based on SkiAdcock's research, I tend to agree even more

MHO is not to vote in favor of the motion as presented as I don't see it having enough traffic to warrant it's own forum despite the full court press on the matter in recent days on the TB forum.

Not enough posts to justify a Spirit forum. Probably not even enough to talk about. You either book due to low fare (including fees) or you don't. Things like a FF program, elite status, mileage runs....aren't applicable.

A question (please move if not appropriate for this thread).

Is it possible to create one forum for the ultralowcost airlines? Put Spirit, Ryanair and easyjet in one forum.

Checklist to make sure if kept track of all the potential fees before you book. How to best manage your carryon and checked luggage.

I don't see it having enough traffic to warrant it's own forum despite the full court press on the matter in recent days on the TB forum.
I agree traffic will be the main concern.

Somehow my gut feeling tells me if TB did approve this motion, Spirit Airlines Forum might suffer the same destiny as the now-disbanded Senior Travel Forum (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkboard-topics/915747-update-motion-adopted-close-senior-travel-forum.html), which contained dialogues between only a handful of regular and/or passionate posters.

People don't talk much about Spirit exactly for the reason there isn't a forum for it. Let me make a case why it does deserve the forum. First, not everything in air-travel is about Elite. Second, it's easy to get a bunch of initial miles with 2 CCs from BoA, and they aggressively push easy promos on you to get even more. Third, their cheapest rates (when you manage to snatch them) are simply insane and their baggage fees are easily avoidable. Fourth, there are ways to get into their front seats on the cheap - and that's essentially First Class seats, just without free booze and meals.

And finally, people love to hate Spirit, so that fact alone will generate enough buzz to get it rolling.:p Come on, people, tear down that wall...

I'm probably not in favor of it, based on Sharon's research, but if TB is wavering on this, what about tabling this motion and creating one that is for creating it, but contains a clause to re-evaluate if it is necessary in 6 months? If the posts stay about the same, TB can easily opt to close the forum. If they increase dramatically (but are legitimate discussions, not just a, "woohoo, a new thread just to post,"), the forum stays?

I'm probably not in favor of it, based on Sharon's research, but if TB is wavering on this, what about tabling this motion and creating one that is for creating it, but contains a clause to re-evaluate if it is necessary in 6 months? If the posts stay about the same, TB can easily opt to close the forum. If they increase dramatically (but are legitimate discussions, not just a, "woohoo, a new thread just to post,"), the forum stays?

We don't need such a clause. Closing a forum only takes a motion and a second and a vote. If the forum doesn't generate traffic and needs to be closed, I'll submit a motion myself.

We don't need such a clause. Closing a forum only takes a motion and a second and a vote. If the forum doesn't generate traffic and needs to be closed, I'll submit a motion myself.

:D And then deal with the, "we need this forum," posts?

:D And then deal with the, "we need this forum," posts?

That's OK. I can handle the grief.

I just did a bit of research & would tend to agree with you.

Threads per month:


Cheers.

The total number of threads may actually be low, but have you looked at the posts per thread?

NK (Spirit) recently announced that they'll begin AZA-DFW and AZA-LAS service, so me being curious I first went to look for a Spirit forum. Not finding one, I ventured into the, "other North America," forum. It appeared that Spirit made up 30% of the threads in that forum. Not only that, but some threads have 5+ pages of posts.

Yes at first blush it appears that an NK forum would be a small/niche forum. But if it had its own forum, I think some of those 5+ page threads would be separate. In its current state, it can be difficult to sift through Spirit plus everything else there, so users simply add to existing threads, or simply don't add but just lurk like I did.

Given that NK will be serving an airport less than 10 miles from my house, I'm very biased in saying that I'd recommend a separate forum for it. Heck, I may actually fly NK some day. I know someone who works at NK and could probably prod her into being a Company Representative, if there was a separate forum. If a mod was needed, I'd volunteer to add that to the other forums I moderate.

I didn't realize traffic to the site was counted by the number of threads. I know I have just added new material to existing NK threads rather than start a new one many times.

I also know that I visit the current forum less than I would a dedicated forum. I think having a forum would be helpful to all those who don't quite understand how to best navigate their fees.

Free Spirit deserves its own Forum as most Frequent Flyer programs do. As stated above, this little airline has been growing fast and they will keep growing. In the end, they are making money and they have double digit margins!!

I fly Spirit a lot for schedule and pricing reasons and I collect their miles because it is a requirement in order to buy a ticket online (you have to be registered). I don't think I will ever use them, since it is very difficult to redeem, but to many people a Free Spirit forum will give them the guidelines and tricks to redeem "those virtually impossible to reedem" miles.

I know the program quite well, since I was offered the job of Product Manager for Free Spirit, which I didn't take... I am willing to help moderate the free spirit forum if necessary!

I just don't see the traffic warranting it. Agreed that a forum can be there even if they don't have a great FFP or elite status. Lots of people fly NK because it can be dirt cheap. But w/o the traffic, it just doesn't seem worth it.

I just don't see the traffic warranting it. Agreed that a forum can be there even if they don't have a great FFP or elite status. Lots of people fly NK because it can be dirt cheap. But w/o the traffic, it just doesn't seem worth it.

Did you read my post above? This single thread about Spirit has 170 replies:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/other-north-south-america-frequent-flyer-programs/1181788-spirit-some-more-observations.html

In a dedicated forum, I think that thread would be more like 15 or so.

Did you read my post above? This single thread about Spirit has 170 replies:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/other-north-south-america-frequent-flyer-programs/1181788-spirit-some-more-observations.html

In a dedicated forum, I think that thread would be more like 15 or so.

You've successfully proven that the number of threads is *not* the proper measure to look at in this case. I hope that other members of TB see this and take this into account.

Did you read my post above? This single thread about Spirit has 170 replies:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/other-north-south-america-frequent-flyer-programs/1181788-spirit-some-more-observations.html

In a dedicated forum, I think that thread would be more like 15 or so.
Even so, I still don't believe there would be enough traffic. I understand that this is a "mega-thread," which should count for more than just a single thread, but I'm not so convinced based off that that there'd be solid traffic in the NK forum

You've successfully proven that the number of threads is *not* the proper measure to look at in this case. I hope that other members of TB see this and take this into account.

Having followed the Travel Health & Fitness (THF) forum from the beginnings, I'll add a few other things--

* it is very difficult to assess who will access a new forum before it begins, if/how often they'll post. There were a few threads in Omni that some regulars contributed to (myself included), but since the forum began, there's definitely some new people who pop in.

* a proper forum develops a sense of community. Since THF began, I've noticed regulars, and definitely a friendly/welcoming vibe.

* mega-threads are fewer in THF now. sure, a couple continue, but I'd guess most threads in that forum have under 30 posts.

* there's some topics in THF that probably were never addressed in the past, but have appeared over the past few months since the forum began.


I certainly don't intend to become a regular flyer of Spirit. But there obviously are people who do fly regularly. As Flyertalk is often mentioned in the news when it comes to travel, shouldn't it be on the cutting edge and have a dedicated forum for this airline? Shouldn't Flyertalk be welcoming to the one-off travelers who want info or to vent about Spirit, as they do about US Airways or other airlines that have dedicated forums?

As I indicated above, finding info on Spirit is a bit of a challenge in the current FT environment. Either sorting through that mega-thread, searching through the other sporadic posts, or more than likely the users leave FT and look elsewhere.

Spirit are a growing and newsworthy airline. Yes, often controversial, but in my mind that further argues for a dedicated thread.

In the current catch-all forum, they usually dominate the top ten. And lets not judge their potential traffic by the catch-all, as a dedicated forum with its visibility will only serve to make numbers higher.

This isn't about whether you LIKE Spirit. It is about their presence in the category. And for that reason alone it is difficult to say no.

They are newsmakers and in some cases, trendsetters. When it comes to Spirit, I want more visibility. More discussion. More exposure.

Vote yes.

Herb Kelleher & Southwest was a controversial airline, in my boyhood in the 1980s. Sam Walton & Walmart were controversial (are still today) do to their lowball pricing and revolutionary methods. Both Southwest and Walmart changed their industries.

I believe Spirit to be the logical combination of the Southwest legacy for the Caribbean and Latin America (Both Central America and Northern South America). There has never been a low cost carrier (ultra-low cost) to attempt what Spirit has, on an International Scale, in the Americas.

Is Spirit CEO, Ben Baldanza, a great visionary, on the likes of Sam Walton & Herb Kelleher; it seems too early to know the answer.


Lets try to look at the issue and take Spirit out of the equation. Lets think of Spirit as Airline X. Airline X currently has a larger fleet and flies more places than forum member Virgin America. Unlike forum members JetBlue (which got automatic forum acceptance) and an airline X had to wait a full six years (from the moment the motion was shelved).

Now lets bring Spirit back into this analysis: over the past six years its rapid expansion internationally. Spirit now flies to more desitnations internationally, than Southwest, AirTran, Virgin America, JetBlue, & Frontier; COMBINED, yet all of these others have a official forum, but Spirit.

What Southwest did for Americans since it's founding in the 1970s, Spirit has done for the peoples of Latin America and the Caribbean today. Much like during the time of airline regulation, fares now are excessive within the Americas. In other words, the flag carriers are bleeding the region to death, much like the majors were doing in the USA before Southwest!!

Example, this year a RT flight either within Guatemala to Tikal or between San Salvador & Guatemala City were both over $350 on TACA, you know the Flag Carrier Monopoly. Why should it have been (October 2011) cheaper for me to fly back to Florida on Spirit and a one hour flight in Central America?


Spirit is an important airline for the regions it serves. Like Southwest in the USA, it has allowed many people to visit their families in a region, that would be cost prohibitive otherwise. Both the Caribbean and Latin America have a high fare reputation for decades.

Now as stated earlier, the number of Spirit posts are NOT reflective of the true interest of the airline, due to the significant level of discussion in each topic thread.

It should be noted that Spirit does have a FF program with Elite levels & domestic J class seating, something that neither Southwest, Frontier (Frontier does have Elite levels) or JetBlue.

I consider JetBlue, Virgin America, & Frontier to be boutique carriers that serve special niche markets. The best comparison is Southwest which best matches Spirit. Though it only has one type of service, no international network, a very limited FF program, few partners, yet it does have a lively forum.

When you consider the arguments I have made, Spirit can be seen in a different, more complex light.

I don't think there's enough traffic right now to jusify a forum for Spirit.

No, apparently not. Because it was very few people who post in ONAFFP. I don't think its happening in the future. Unfortunately, they won't be create new Spirit Forum.

Did you read my post above? This single thread about Spirit has 170 replies:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/other-north-south-america-frequent-flyer-programs/1181788-spirit-some-more-observations.html

In a dedicated forum, I think that thread would be more like 15 or so.

This is an important point and calls for research a bit deeper than what Sharon provided in terms of simple thread-count.

I'm actually on the fence myself (I seconded the motion because I thought Spirit deserved a vote after the 'shenanigans' that went on around the first vote six or so years ago). I will dig into those mega-threads a little more deeply before making a final decision.

This is an important point and calls for research a bit deeper than what Sharon provided in terms of simple thread-count.

I'm actually on the fence myself (I seconded the motion because I thought Spirit deserved a vote after the 'shenanigans' that went on around the first vote six or so years ago). I will dig into those mega-threads a little more deeply before making a final decision.

Thanks for the second.

I've voted for the motion for 3 reasons: (1) The traffic is bigger than the number of threads and (2) I think more people will post if there's a dedicated forum and (3) Spirit does seem to dominate the Other forum, which to me means it's time to move them out.

If I was someone looking for information on DL (for example), I would probably type something into Google -- something like "Delta SkyMiles discussion". FT shows up as #4 with that phrase. I'd probably look at FT then to see what it was and maybe I'd register.

It sounds great in theory to have a catch all bucket called "Other", but that only (maybe) brings people who are registered here and understand quite well the layout of the board. So I won't sit back and say that because there's only X posts in there that I think there would only be X posts in a dedicated forum -- I always think there will be more. Enough to sustain a board? I don't know, but there's only one way to find out and that's by running one for a reasonable amount of time and looking at it again near the end of the TB year.

We should be much more open to trying forums and we also (around September 15, IMO) should be doing a critical review of all the forums to determine if some just aren't needed.

If I was someone looking for information on DL (for example), I would probably type something into Google -- something like "Delta SkyMiles discussion". FT shows up as #4 with that phrase. I'd probably look at FT then to see what it was and maybe I'd register.

It sounds great in theory to have a catch all bucket called "Other", but that only (maybe) brings people who are registered here and understand quite well the layout of the board. So I won't sit back and say that because there's only X posts in there that I think there would only be X posts in a dedicated forum -- I always think there will be more. Enough to sustain a board? I don't know, but there's only one way to find out and that's by running one for a reasonable amount of time and looking at it again near the end of the TB year.


Lets not forget that NK caters to a different clientele. It is very VFR oriented. Nevertheless, these people are members of Free Spirit and have the Free Spirit Credit Card. It will be a good opportunity for FlyerTalk to expand to people that are not mile junkies (like most of us), but do want to know more about how to take advantage of what they think is an asset to them (free spirit miles). Flyertalk might even open their eyes by letting them discover the mileage run world... and who knows what will happen after!

The total number of threads may actually be low, but have you looked at the posts per thread?

Actually I just did. Other than the single mega-thread, the Spirit threads have very few posts in them. Using the same dates (Feb 12-Jan 10) as the threads above, the posts in threads are:

3,1, 170 (mega-thread), 16, 1, 16, 5, 9, 0, 0, 5, 4, 10, 3, 0, 7, 6, 5, 2, 2, 3, 2, 4, 23, 0, 2, 11, 0, 4, 28, 67, 1, 2, 1, 2, 6, 1, 1, 12, 9, 6, 1, 11, 5, 24, 3, 0, 0, 2, 1, 5, 6, 3, 7, 3, 3, 0, 1, 0, 8, 2, 4, 9, 0, 0, 0, 2, 0, 5, 14, 2, 0, 6, 12, 5, 1, 5, 3, 3, 17, 4, 5, 47, 8, 3, 2, 7, 2, 152, 1, 7, 7, 0, 1, 1, 1, 1, 8, 2, 1, 10, 1, 1, 6, 2, 8, 0, 1, 4, 12

I just don't see the traffic warranting it. Agreed that a forum can be there even if they don't have a great FFP or elite status. Lots of people fly NK because it can be dirt cheap. But w/o the traffic, it just doesn't seem worth it.


Even so, I still don't believe there would be enough traffic. I understand that this is a "mega-thread," which should count for more than just a single thread, but I'm not so convinced based off that that there'd be solid traffic in the NK forum

Agree with both of the above, which is why I'm still leaning against this.



I certainly don't intend to become a regular flyer of Spirit. But there obviously are people who do fly regularly. As Flyertalk is often mentioned in the news when it comes to travel, shouldn't it be on the cutting edge and have a dedicated forum for this airline? Shouldn't Flyertalk be welcoming to the one-off travelers who want info or to vent about Spirit, as they do about US Airways or other airlines that have dedicated forums?.

So presumably you don't have a problem w/ every single airline that exists having a forum if we're doing it for the '1-off traveler'? BTW - I'm not quite certain that FT is going to fail the cutting edge criteria if we don't have a Spirit forum. :p :D I get what you're trying to say, though.


This isn't about whether you LIKE Spirit. It is about their presence in the category. And for that reason alone it is difficult to say no.

As koko said above, we don't start forums based on whether we like the airlines or kill them because we dislike them.


I believe Spirit to be the logical combination of the Southwest legacy for the Caribbean and Latin America (Both Central America and Northern South America). There has never been a low cost carrier (ultra-low cost) to attempt what Spirit has, on an International Scale, in the Americas.

Now as stated earlier, the number of Spirit posts are NOT reflective of the true interest of the airline, due to the significant level of discussion in each topic thread.

It should be noted that Spirit does have a FF program with Elite levels & domestic J class seating, something that neither Southwest, Frontier (Frontier does have Elite levels) or JetBlue.

When you consider the arguments I have made, Spirit can be seen in a different, more complex light.

To an extent. Others might argue that Ryanair & EasyJet do the same for their regions. You make some valid points, but I'm not sure it's enough to justify a forum to itself.

Also, as noted above, contrary to what some of you have been saying, not only are there not many threads, there aren't many posts in the threads that do exist, so I disagree with your assessment of significant discussion in each thread.



I've voted for the motion for 3 reasons: (1) The traffic is bigger than the number of threads and (2) I think more people will post if there's a dedicated forum and (3) Spirit does seem to dominate the Other forum, which to me means it's time to move them out.

If I was someone looking for information on DL (for example), I would probably type something into Google -- something like "Delta SkyMiles discussion". FT shows up as #4 with that phrase. I'd probably look at FT then to see what it was and maybe I'd register.

It sounds great in theory to have a catch all bucket called "Other", but that only (maybe) brings people who are registered here and understand quite well the layout of the board. So I won't sit back and say that because there's only X posts in there that I think there would only be X posts in a dedicated forum -- I always think there will be more. Enough to sustain a board? I don't know, but there's only one way to find out and that's by running one for a reasonable amount of time and looking at it again near the end of the TB year.

We should be much more open to trying forums and we also (around September 15, IMO) should be doing a critical review of all the forums to determine if some just aren't needed.

I get what you're saying, but not totally in agreement. I'm not really into starting forums as 'tests' & then hope to close them down later, regardless if it's Spirit or otherwise. BTW - you need to read the guidelines re: that critical review. ;)

I've not voted yet & I'm willing to listen to arguments, but I'm leaning against because I don't think there's going to be enough traffic to justify it.

For those that are touting Spirit being top dog in the Other forum, that probably has something to do w/ LAN getting its own forum - a forum that is VERY active, btw.

Cheers.

I get what you're saying, but not totally in agreement. I'm not really into starting forums as 'tests' & then hope to close them down later, regardless if it's Spirit or otherwise. BTW - you need to read the guidelines re: that critical review. ;)

To be honest, I'm not all that concerned with the Forum Creation guidelines. I know that will blasphemy to some, but I'm of the opinion we're better off trying things and occasionally making things go away. It's likely how I will proceed in the next 2 years here.

But as I said, I'm only one vote. Creating a forum (and making one go away) requires 6, so others may have more work to do to get those other 5 votes.

A forum be created for Spirit Airlines.


[QUOTE=dhammer53;17975598]I'd agree with you. Spirit generates enough (bad) publicity to give them a forum... if only to protect (new) members of Flyertalk. I think a heads up is valuable.

I'm confused. Are you saying you support the forum or don't? Your first sentence implies not; your other sentences implies yes.



Sharon,

I was agreeing with the OP (you). I should have mentioned that. Sorry for the confusion.

One more thing, if the Spirit forum eventually dies a slow death (in 6 months), the TB can always pull it.

I wouldn't wish NK on my worst enemy... but a forum to help us who have no choice but to navigate the wonder known as Spirit Airlines would be fantastic.

One more thing, if the Spirit forum eventually dies a slow death (in 6 months), the TB can always pull it.

[QUOTE=SkiAdcock;17975276]

A forum be created for Spirit Airlines.






Sharon,

I was agreeing with the OP (you). I should have mentioned that. Sorry for the confusion.

One more thing, if the Spirit forum eventually dies a slow death (in 6 months), the TB can always pull it.


How about if we agree to give the Spirit Forum a six month probationary period, at the end there would be a up or down vote on rather to keep it? In the future, I think this would be a good idea for all threads.

It is hard to predict for some, if they will succeed for fail; thus a trial period seems a just thing to do, for the bellwether of sustainability.

No disrespect implied - but it would need close monitoring/moderating. Spirit seems to generate quite a bit of negativity.

[QUOTE=dhammer53;17983949]


How about if we agree to give the Spirit Forum a six month probationary period, at the end there would be a up or down vote on rather to keep it? In the future, I think this would be a good idea for all threads.

It is hard to predict for some, if they will succeed for fail; thus a trial period seems a just thing to do, for the bellwether of sustainability.

Do you understand what the TalkBoard is and how it functions?

BTW - it should be noted that sudden post-padding to try & increase volume to justify the forum would be caught by the mods.
Other than the single mega-thread, the Spirit threads have very few posts in them. Using the same dates (Feb 12-Jan 10) as the threads above, the posts in threads are:

3,1, 170 (mega-thread), 16, 1, 16, 5, 9, 0, 0, 5, 4, 10, 3, 0, 7, 6, 5, 2, 2, 3, 2, 4, 23, 0, 2, 11, 0, 4, 28, 67, 1, 2, 1, 2, 6, 1, 1, 12, 9, 6, 1, 11, 5, 24, 3, 0, 0, 2, 1, 5, 6, 3, 7, 3, 3, 0, 1, 0, 8, 2, 4, 9, 0, 0, 0, 2, 0, 5, 14, 2, 0, 6, 12, 5, 1, 5, 3, 3, 17, 4, 5, 47, 8, 3, 2, 7, 2, 152, 1, 7, 7, 0, 1, 1, 1, 1, 8, 2, 1, 10, 1, 1, 6, 2, 8, 0, 1, 4, 12
Good work, Sharon! ^

Don't forget to factor in how many threads were started by the same poster in this Feb alone. ;)

... Spirit Airlines Forum might suffer the same destiny as the now-disbanded Senior Travel Forum (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkboard-topics/915747-update-motion-adopted-close-senior-travel-forum.html), which contained dialogues between only a handful of regular and/or passionate posters.
BTW, the number of Views per thread may be also be a good measure of (potential) traffic. I don't know if Views for threads on Spirit are enough a justification for "good" traffic. I haven't checked.

No, I was not trying to pad the forum!

1. The Spirit CEO talking about new fees, is relevant to the forum.
2. There was a question which I tried to answer about redemptions.
3. The Spirit Politics post, was true and relevant to an important issue.


Truly, I believe that Spirit will have at least as many forum entries (once it has it's own forum) as Virgin America, JetBlue, or Frontier. How long did JetBlue have to wait for its own forum anyway?? Did it have to prove viability and future success?

If you search "Spirit" on the North & South America Frequent Flyer Programs, you fill find over 223 pages of Spirit related questions, posts, and comments.

Do you understand what the TalkBoard is and how it functions?

As a matter of fact, I do. I was on the original TalkBoard.

I would bet that most people voting against an NK thread have never even flown the airline. Like it or not, they're making money and expanding rapidly. If WN deserves a forum, so does NK. At least I have an assigned seat on NK, even if it costs me a few bucks. I've flown NK at least two dozen times in recent years, mostly international, and have never had a single bad experience. I think my longest delay was an hour. With the recent addition of carry-on bag fees, boarding is faster than ever. I still fly AA and UA much more than NK, but they definitely serve a purpose and they deserve a forum.

I would bet that most people voting against an NK thread have never even flown the airline. Like it or not, they're making money and expanding rapidly. If WN deserves a forum, so does NK. At least I have an assigned seat on NK, even if it costs me a few bucks. I've flown NK at least two dozen times in recent years, mostly international, and have never had a single bad experience. I think my longest delay was an hour. With the recent addition of carry-on bag fees, boarding is faster than ever. I still fly AA and UA much more than NK, but they definitely serve a purpose and they deserve a forum.

Thank you, this is what I have been trying to say all along!! Someone does get it, I am really impressed by your comment. You have managed to make a point, that I was trying to make, but somehow did not resonate.:eek:

I would bet that most people voting against an NK thread have never even flown the airline. Like it or not, they're making money and expanding rapidly. If WN deserves a forum, so does NK. At least I have an assigned seat on NK, even if it costs me a few bucks. I've flown NK at least two dozen times in recent years, mostly international, and have never had a single bad experience. I think my longest delay was an hour. With the recent addition of carry-on bag fees, boarding is faster than ever. I still fly AA and UA much more than NK, but they definitely serve a purpose and they deserve a forum.

Thank you, this is what I have been trying to say all along!! Someone does get it, I am really impressed by your comment. You have managed to make a point, that I was trying to make, but somehow did not resonate.:eek:

NK could be the most profitable airline with the best on-time record, etc. but that wouldn't qualify them for a forum. If the traffic on FT justifies one, then great. If not, then not. How well they're doing is irrelevant. Using that same logic, AA's forum should be disbanded because they're in bankruptcy, don't board as fast as NK, and they don't have such a great on-time performance.

I just did a bit of research & would tend to agree with you.

Threads per month:

Feb '12 (to date): 9
Jan '12: 8
Dec '11: 6
Nov '11; 4
Oct '11: 10
Sept '11: 2
Aug '11: 3
July '11: 6
June '11: 9
May '11; 2
Apr '11: 1
Mar '11: 5
Feb '11: 4
Jan '11: 6
Dec '10: 5
Nov '10: 2
Oct '10: 0
Sep '10: 3
Aug '10: 4
July '10: 4
June '10: 5
May '10: 3
Apr '10: 6
Mar '10: 6
Feb '10: 1
Jan '10: 1

Cheers.

A "Bit" of research? Sheesh. I'd hate to see what you call "Extensive" research. It would no doubt fill volumes. ;)

Well done. Although if there are truly flyers that are going to post on-going, maybe it would not be a bad idea. Interested to see what happens and what the Mods decide.

Is there a minimum number of posts or threads that an airline forum needs to be worthwhile?

I browsed through the following airline forums, and activity seems quite limited--
* Virgin America
* Korean Air
* Jet Blue
* Iberia
* Finnair

If TB is limiting opening forums for airlines, perhaps the TB should also evaluate closing those that aren't performing?

How does TB evaluate a successful airline forum on Flyertalk? Is there a difference between an airline forum and other forums?

NK could be the most profitable airline with the best on-time record, etc. but that wouldn't qualify them for a forum. If the traffic on FT justifies one, then great. If not, then not. How well they're doing is irrelevant. Using that same logic, AA's forum should be disbanded because they're in bankruptcy, don't board as fast as NK, and they don't have such a great on-time performance.

Actually, there is a direct corollary between an airline's success and the need for a forum. More money equals more planes equals more flyers equals more comments. Check English-language reviews for Spirit online -- they're up significantly since the uptick in Vegas flights and West Coast service. I think it is safe to say that more US domestic flights may lead to increased traffic on English-language websites such as Flyertalk.

And yes, as airlines fall there is no longer a need for certain forums. I seem to remember the Indy Air forum being shut down a couple days after the carrier imploded in early 2006. Hopefully that will never be the case with AA, but it's not beyond the realm of possibilty that there will one day be a need to merge the AA forum with US or DL.

FWIW....it's not like there isn't already a place to discuss Spirit - there is...and discussion has been happening there. I just don't see enough volume to warrant a standalone forum.

FWIW....it's not like there isn't already a place to discuss Spirit - there is...and discussion has been happening there. I just don't see enough volume to warrant a standalone forum.

You'd expect discussion in a stand-alone forum to mirror what happens in an "Other" forum? What about those looking for specific Spirit discussion? What about those who aren't on FT who want to search for discussion or reviews about Spirit?

I think the "there's already a place" mentality is misguided. I doubt I'd ever go to the Other forum (unless someone told me to look at something there).

I'm very happy to go through the exercise of closing non-performing forums provided those forums are given a shot in the first place.

Like it or not, they're making money and expanding rapidly. If WN deserves a forum, so does NK. At least I have an assigned seat on NK, even if it costs me a few bucks. I've flown NK at least two dozen times in recent years, mostly international, and have never had a single bad experience. I think my longest delay was an hour. With the recent addition of carry-on bag fees, boarding is faster than ever. I still fly AA and UA much more than NK, but they definitely serve a purpose and they deserve a forum.
NK could be the most profitable airline with the best on-time record, etc. but that wouldn't qualify them for a forum. If the traffic on FT justifies one, then great. If not, then not. How well they're doing is irrelevant. ...

(underline mine)

I think that's the key point the pro camp for NK is not getting.

There may be thousands of satisfied and/or unsatisfied NK passengers out there. However, if they haven't shown enough interest in discussing NK on FT, as what the current NK statistics say, there will not be enough traffic to sustain a forum. Just look it up and you'll see what happened to the extinct Senior Travel Forum. The bottom line is, 3 or 5 enthusiasts alone are not good enough a number to "feed" a forum.

It may not hurt to check out why/how some proposals never get picked up then prepare for stronger and better arguments. In the past, someone had been eagerly advocated for a Korea Forum (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkboard-topics/999080-proposal-korean-travel-forum.html), which was never moved. I think traffic, or should I say lack of FT traffic, rejects the idea.

What about those looking for specific Spirit discussion? What about those who aren't on FT who want to search for discussion or reviews about Spirit?
What about them?

If they've never bothered to post anything or ask any question about NK online, what makes you think they would start "participating" in Spirit Forum on FT, if we did create it? Would one-shot wonders and bystanders generate good traffic for a forum? Is that the target audience FT aims to serve? There used to be a poster or two who said they would definitely contribute if there's a standalone Korea Forum. As of today, I still haven't seen them make a single post about Korea in our designated Asia Forum (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/15559789-post102.html). Yes, people can change, but not that much and not that fast. ;)

Action speaks louder than words. And traffic (or posts) will speak for action. Is Spirit there yet on FT? That is the question.

(underline mine)

I think that's the key point the pro camp for NK is not getting.

There may be thousands of satisfied and/or unsatisfied NK passengers out there. However, if they haven't shown enough interest in discussing NK on FT, as what the current NK statistics say, there will not be enough traffic to sustain a forum. Just look it up and you'll see what happened to the extinct Senior Travel Forum. The bottom line is, 3 or 5 enthusiasts alone are not good enough a number to "feed" a forum.

It may not hurt to check out why/how some proposals never get picked up then prepare for stronger and better arguments. In the past, someone had been eagerly advocated for a Korea Forum (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkboard-topics/999080-proposal-korean-travel-forum.html), which was never moved. I think traffic, or should I say lack of FT traffic, rejects the idea.


What about them?

If they've never bothered to post anything or ask any question about NK online, what makes you think they would start "participating" in Spirit Forum on FT, if we did create it? Would one-shot wonders and bystanders generate good traffic for a forum? Is that the target audience FT aims to serve? There used to be a poster or two who said they would definitely contribute if there's a standalone Korea Forum. As of today, I still haven't seen them make a single post about Korea in our designated Asia Forum (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/15559789-post102.html). Yes, people can change, but not that much and not that fast. ;)

Action speaks louder than words. And traffic (or posts) will speak for action. Is Spirit there yet on FT? That is the question.
Perhaps those who have not discussed NK on FT don't really know to find it in the "Other" forum. Perhaps, as it stands, it is too difficult for newbies who might want to discuss it to figure out where to post, so they stay quiet instead.

Knowing that TalkBoard can close an "underperforming" forum, why not give it a chance, and if, in 6 months, there just isn't traffic there, then have a motion to close it.

Knowing that TalkBoard can close an "underperforming" forum, why not give it a chance, and if, in 6 months, there just isn't traffic there, then have a motion to close it.
If that's the logic TB will use w/r/t creating new fora, maybe TB should revise the current criteria for forum creation first?

IIRC, what you have in mind is NOT listed in the current guideline (how are new forums considered? (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/11201697-post2.html)).

If that's the logic TB will use w/r/t creating new fora, maybe TB should revise the current criteria for forum creation first?

IIRC, what you have in mind is NOT listed in the current guideline (how are new forums considered? (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/11201697-post2.html)).

According to that file--


9. At the end of each year, the TalkBoard President will ask the FlyerTalk Host for end-of-year forum activity metrics. Each February, the TalkBoard shall review the least-used forums for possible closure, based on the end-of-year metrics. Members should not expect public notice in advance of proposals to close forums due to the potential for manipulation of the metrics.


(bolding mine)

So I'd assume the TB will be evaluating the existing Flyertalk forums soon--or maybe has already--as we're already into February. Is this correct?

Is this report available to the general population of Flyertalk after the TB review takes place?

I'd also assume this covers the questions I posed upthread regarding the existing airline forums that may not have sufficient activity to keep open.

If that's the logic TB will use w/r/t creating new fora, maybe TB should revise the current criteria for forum creation first?

IIRC, what you have in mind is NOT listed in the current guideline (how are new forums considered? (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/11201697-post2.html)).

Perhaps they should consider revising it. I've never been one to think that we should keep doing something because we've always done it that way, when it seems that perhaps there's a better option out there.

NK keeps making the news. Yesterday they applied for an exemption to fly DFW-TLC

http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=DOT-OST-2012-0021-0001

People don't discuss about NK because there is NO "NK Forum" to discuss about NK.

In my humble opinion, I'd rank Spirit Airlines pretty low down the list of airline FFPs deserving of their own forum. An opinion arrived at purely on the basis of topic quantity and diversity relating to Spirit.

Out of interest, how many US based scheduled carriers are there left without their own forum on FT?

People don't discuss about NK because there is NO "NK Forum" to discuss about NK.

If that's the case, there wouldn't be any thread about Spirit on FT, would it? :confused:

A standalone forum is NOT the absolute condition for energetic discussion on FT. The truth is, even without a standalone Spirit Forum on FT, those who want to talk or discuss about NK still do. They do it in Other North & South America Frequent Flyer Programs Forum and wherever else Spirit leads them. The problem is whether there are enough passionate FTers who are and/or will be engaged in Spirit discussion on FT. For whatever reason, there weren't enough in the past.

If Spirit Airlines deserve a forum on FT, please make good arguments for it. Without faulty logic, of course. Maybe some good lessons can be learned from how Virgin Australia Velocity made its case here (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkboard-topics/1215568-suggestion-virgin-australia-velocity-forum.html) and here (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkboard-topics/1219250-motion-passed-create-virgin-australia-velocity-forum.html) not so long ago? @:-)

In my humble opinion, I'd rank Spirit Airlines pretty low down the list of airline FFPs deserving of their own forum. An opinion arrived at purely on the basis of topic quantity and diversity relating to Spirit.

Out of interest, how many US based scheduled carriers are there left without their own forum on FT?

No idea. I'm not sure why you're asking the question, though.

No idea. I'm not sure why you're asking the question, though.I was just pondering :)

If followers of those smaller North American airlines (Spirit, Porter et al) felt crowded out by the discussion of Central and South American airlines (or vice versa) then perhaps the proponents of a Spirit forum might be happy with a generic forum that focuses on other North American FFPs. In other words split the current ONSAFFP forum into two: Other NAFFP and Other SAFFP.

If Spirit Airlines deserve a forum on FT, please make good arguments for it. Without faulty logic, of course. Maybe some good lessons can be learned from how Virgin Australia Velocity made its case here (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkboard-topics/1215568-suggestion-virgin-australia-velocity-forum.html) and here (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkboard-topics/1219250-motion-passed-create-virgin-australia-velocity-forum.html) not so long ago? @:-)

Already made them... try reading the entire thread

If that's the case, there wouldn't be any thread about Spirit on FT, would it? :confused:

A standalone forum is NOT the absolute condition for energetic discussion on FT. The truth is, even without a standalone Spirit Forum on FT, those who want to talk or discuss about NK still do. They do it in Other North & South America Frequent Flyer Programs Forum and wherever else Spirit leads them. The problem is whether there are enough passionate FTers who are and/or will be engaged in Spirit discussion on FT. For whatever reason, there weren't enough in the past.

If Spirit Airlines deserve a forum on FT, please make good arguments for it. Without faulty logic, of course. Maybe some good lessons can be learned from how Virgin Australia Velocity made its case here (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkboard-topics/1215568-suggestion-virgin-australia-velocity-forum.html) and here (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkboard-topics/1219250-motion-passed-create-virgin-australia-velocity-forum.html) not so long ago? @:-)



If this was true in real life, than the airlines here could be placed together, without the need for their own forum? If LAN was so happy in the North/South America Forum, why are they not still there now?

Many of the arguments made with the Virgin Group, have been made for spirit here. Over the past half decade there has been a decline in US based airlines with a forum. With AirTran soon to join Southwest and AA's future still unknown, perhaps even fewer forums for US airlines, in the future.

1. Spirit is an important airline over much of where it flies. There is no comparable airline, no Southwest (Southwest is a low cost, VS Spirit being ultra-low cost) in many of the Americas: the Caribbean, Central & Northern South America, where it flies.

2. Spirit does have a complex flyer program that does have partners and a credit card option. I should note that miles from spending count, in the FF program tier qualification.

3. The $9 fare club is a unique savings attribute to this airline. The savings in both fares and fees can be substantial.

4. Like the majors, Spirit does have a travel agency for booking vacations and cruises.

5. Spirit has one of the newest, growing, fleets in the Americas.

6. There should be crossover potential from the US forum due to the past opinion of Spirit CEO Ben Baldanza.

7. I predict much continual heated discussion on Aviation Visionary, Ben Baldanza based on his past & future actions.

8. Spirit reminds me of a much disregarded airline of my youth, America West, both survived and prospered against the odds. In my Youth America West had a ad campaign about the "new respect" the employees were having toward their customers. See US has attempted many similar things to Spirit and by most accounts the US forum is a successful place.

Reviewing the Virgin Down Under forum, I believe that Spirit is equal to their application for forum membership. Furthermore, there should be SPECIAL CONSIDERATION based on the 6 year period, of Spirit Purgatory, with Talkboard. No other airline experienced this, some like JetBlue were given instant membership.

1. There is a strong likelihood that Spirit DID pass the vote in 2006 for it's own forum.

2. For this reason, there is a strong probability that it was shelved for six years as a direct result.

3. Spirit did have its own forum, which was revoked and removed without the notification & consent of the Flyertalk Community.

4. The combined actions of the prior (2006) Talkboard, had never been administered in such a manner, to any airline, at any time, in the history of Flyertalk.

5. There are former Flyertalk members whom were Expelled, as a direct result of their involvement in the controversial & confrontational 2006 Talkboard actions.


Based on these five areas that occurred in 2006, by the Talkboard, I request that special consideration be given, due to the above stated events.

3. Spirit did have its own forum, which was revoked and removed without the notification & consent of the Flyertalk Community.


I don't believe the consent of the FT membership as a whole is or has ever been required to open or close forums.

FlyerTalk is a website for airlines.. To be comprehensive with detail, a Spirit Airlines Forum, or at least a subforum would make sense.

Is there a minimum number of posts or threads that an airline forum needs to be worthwhile?

I browsed through the following airline forums, and activity seems quite limited--
* Virgin America
* Korean Air
* Jet Blue
* Iberia
* Finnair

If TB is limiting opening forums for airlines, perhaps the TB should also evaluate closing those that aren't performing?

How does TB evaluate a successful airline forum on Flyertalk? Is there a difference between an airline forum and other forums?

Activity in these forums you mentioned is very limited. I believe that certain members of TB have an agenda as any good politician does. This also extends to certain usually longtime members. They see the old guard airline standards where they have long-term elite status or other perks and feel that is good for them so it should be good for the FT community as a whole.

When I first came to FT (discovered this place) it wasn't because I was searching for an airline frequent flyer forum, it was become I was becoming sick with the standards of aviation security ie the TSA. But once I found those security forums I quickly branched into other forums mainly Delta my preferred airline, but also a few other forums where I lurk and just poke around and read. I don't have a million posts like some here, but I check FT daily. One thing I have always thought was lacking is an airline I occasionally fly and my parents fly quite a bit, Spirit.

Call them what you want and I have called them some crazy things because of their crazy policies but they do have people on FT that both fly them even if once in awhile, and either love them or hate them or fall somewhere in between like me.

The forum where they are currently at even I don't think to go into that section of FT regularly to "read and check" to see if there is something new going on and I've been a member for a few years. I have been in that forum as I've started NK threads and posted in them, and not recently either so you can verify that statement. They do make news for instance I just read yesterday they are starting TPA-DFW and going head to head with AA. I thought about posting it but I almost think it's pointless in the current forum they are in. I am very sure they would get more traffic, threads and posts, if they had a dedicated forum with the other guys.

I know they would become a regular section I would be checking out even though they are in no way my preferred airline. I'm not a huge fan of them personally but I need to know their policies, procedures and just like knowing what's going on with them as I have family that are fans of them.

Just because certain TB or longtime FT members won't ever fly them or think their program is garbage is no reason to prevent them from moving to the next step with FT so to speak. NK is controversial, controversy would create views from the main airline page and make people think to check them out and see what they are up to next. They will get more views then some of those forums listed above. Change needs to happen, stay relevant and fresh or slowly die.

Activity in these forums you mentioned is very limited. I believe that certain members of TB have an agenda as any good politician does. This also extends to certain usually longtime members. They see the old guard airline standards where they have long-term elite status or other perks and feel that is good for them so it should be good for the FT community as a whole.

When I first came to FT (discovered this place) it wasn't because I was searching for an airline frequent flyer forum, it was become I was becoming sick with the standards of aviation security ie the TSA. But once I found those security forums I quickly branched into other forums mainly Delta my preferred airline, but also a few other forums where I lurk and just poke around and read. I don't have a million posts like some here, but I check FT daily. One thing I have always thought was lacking is an airline I occasionally fly and my parents fly quite a bit, Spirit.

Call them what you want and I have called them some crazy things because of their crazy policies but they do have people on FT that both fly them even if once in awhile, and either love them or hate them or fall somewhere in between like me.

The forum where they are currently at even I don't think to go into that section of FT regularly to "read and check" to see if there is something new going on and I've been a member for a few years. I have been in that forum as I've started NK threads and posted in them, and not recently either so you can verify that statement. They do make news for instance I just read yesterday they are starting TPA-DFW and going head to head with AA. I thought about posting it but I almost think it's pointless in the current forum they are in. I am very sure they would get more traffic, threads and posts, if they had a dedicated forum with the other guys.

I know they would become a regular section I would be checking out even though they are in no way my preferred airline. I'm not a huge fan of them personally but I need to know their policies, procedures and just like knowing what's going on with them as I have family that are fans of them.

Just because certain TB or longtime FT members won't ever fly them or think their program is garbage is no reason to prevent them from moving to the next step with FT so to speak. NK is controversial, controversy would create views from the main airline page and make people think to check them out and see what they are up to next. They will get more views then some of those forums listed above. Change needs to happen, stay relevant and fresh or slowly die.

Thanks for the post. I think Spirit is garbage and would likely never fly them, but I voted for the forum. My opinion of the airline has nothing to do with what i see of my role as a TalkBoard member. The route network and their growth seems to demand a place for them. I also don't think a forum is only for the FF program - it's a place to discuss the airline, it's policies, it's fees, etc. I also think that judging a potential forum by its performance in a buried "miscellaneous" forum is, well, not the best way, to be as diplomatic as I can.

As you may be able to tell, I have some disagreements with the Guidelines for forum creation. Thank goodness they're merely Guidelines and not requirements. But there aren't 6 of me, so it may mean this doesn't get the vote of the whole TalkBoard.

So I'd assume the TB will be evaluating the existing Flyertalk forums soon--or maybe has already--as we're already into February. Is this correct?

Is this report available to the general population of Flyertalk after the TB review takes place?

Yes. See http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkboard-topics/1266047-forum-activity-statistics.html

I expect to be repeating that counting exercise starting next week and possibly finishing in March to give a reasonable count period.

This thread has been very enlightening for me. Thanks to everyone for the great presentation of reasons pro and con.

I was completely undecided, but now I am leaning very much in favor of a Spirit forum. My reasons:

1. Spirit's business model is very different from that of the typical airline. Fee-happy airlines like Spirit beg for discussion of the pros and cons.

2. Spirit's fare and fee structure lends itself to gaming, and FT is all about gaming every system.

3. The travel experience is very different and it lends itself to griping, something that we do a lot of here.

4. Having a forum may promote more member effort on FAQs and Wikis, since those will become much more prominent and easier to find.

If the current proposal does not pass, I might attempt a proposal later in the year for a combined "Spirit/RyanAir/EasyJet plus other fee-happy airlines" forum.

If this proposal passes, perhaps our Community Director can make a tweak on her own to accommodate Ryanair and EasyJet in the forum.

Either way, I'm pretty sure we'll eventually have a forum for fee-happy airlines here. In the meantime, those who badly want such a forum should get off their rear ends and put in the effort to create a Wiki or other valuable content that will then be begging for a good home. @:-)

There have been a lot of helpful people here, both Talkboard & Standard Members, Thank You to all!! Reading through the other forum proposals it is interesting to note, that most respondents had a positive view of the airline and its services. Here not so much, more like the direct opposite, with Spirit.

Overall, I am happy about the argument I gave for this forum. It was an unusual strategy, based on unusual events, for a "unique" airline. Looking back, there really was no guidelines here, as this was unchartered water; based on the strange circumstances of events and the controversial nature of Spirit.

Personally, I wish the majority of airlines were going toward the Virgin model, rather than Spirit's. There needs to be a good amount of humor when looking at this airline. I mean who would ever come up with the "Department of Transportation's unintended consequences fee".

Its so strange it has to be real, but who really could dream up this crap in the first place? Oh yes, it must be former US Airways Visionary, Spirit CEO Ben Baldanza: here with his 2010 TV ad about why new carryon fees are a good thing,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omYDG-YuSxI

I absolutely think there should be a Spirit forum. While it may not draw a lot of posts, at least initially, the posts will still be helpful to those looking at Spirit. For example, the Club Carlson forum is on the lower side of post counts, but its existence has sure helped me out. I don't see the harm of having more forums even if some of them have relatively low thread counts.

This thread has been very enlightening for me. Thanks to everyone for the great presentation of reasons pro and con.

I was completely undecided, but now I am leaning very much in favor of a Spirit forum. My reasons:

1. Spirit's business model is very different from that of the typical airline. Fee-happy airlines like Spirit beg for discussion of the pros and cons.

2. Spirit's fare and fee structure lends itself to gaming, and FT is all about gaming every system.

3. The travel experience is very different and it lends itself to griping, something that we do a lot of here.

4. Having a forum may promote more member effort on FAQs and Wikis, since those will become much more prominent and easier to find.

If the current proposal does not pass, I might attempt a proposal later in the year for a combined "Spirit/RyanAir/EasyJet plus other fee-happy airlines" forum.

If this proposal passes, perhaps our Community Director can make a tweak on her own to accommodate Ryanair and EasyJet in the forum.

Either way, I'm pretty sure we'll eventually have a forum for fee-happy airlines here. In the meantime, those who badly want such a forum should get off their rear ends and put in the effort to create a Wiki or other valuable content that will then be begging for a good home. @:-)

A comprehensive analysis.. Sometimes its more than post counts that garners attention.:-:

Yes, Spirit sounds like they have very well thought out marketing program.. almost makes you think.

Perhaps, the unique offerings of Spirit shall push the number of votes enough to pass.

Yes. I agree a forum for Spirit should be created.

I flew Spirit Airlines 1 time a few weeks ago MCO-FLL and I woundered why there was no forum. They do have a frequent flyer program but I saw it was not listed. I vote for a forum.
I have a question from my flight experience. On Spirit, you have to pay extra if you want to put a bag in the overhead. How do they know whether you paid or not. I noticed people getting on the plane with large bags and no one was checking to verify payment.

This thread has been very enlightening for me. Thanks to everyone for the great presentation of reasons pro and con.

I was completely undecided, but now I am leaning very much in favor of a Spirit forum. My reasons:

1. Spirit's business model is very different from that of the typical airline. Fee-happy airlines like Spirit beg for discussion of the pros and cons.

2. Spirit's fare and fee structure lends itself to gaming, and FT is all about gaming every system.

3. The travel experience is very different and it lends itself to griping, something that we do a lot of here.

4. Having a forum may promote more member effort on FAQs and Wikis, since those will become much more prominent and easier to find.

If the current proposal does not pass, I might attempt a proposal later in the year for a combined "Spirit/RyanAir/EasyJet plus other fee-happy airlines" forum.

If this proposal passes, perhaps our Community Director can make a tweak on her own to accommodate Ryanair and EasyJet in the forum.

Either way, I'm pretty sure we'll eventually have a forum for fee-happy airlines here. In the meantime, those who badly want such a forum should get off their rear ends and put in the effort to create a Wiki or other valuable content that will then be begging for a good home. @:-)Interesting and thoughful analysis ^

Just wondering though, the criteria above is not unique to Spirit. In fact it's common across many airlines spread across a variety of global markets. If a new forum is opened up for Spirit, where does this leave Easyjet, Ryanair, FlyBe and the scores of others?

I flew Spirit Airlines 1 time a few weeks ago MCO-FLL and I woundered why there was no forum. They do have a frequent flyer program but I saw it was not listed. I vote for a forum.
I have a question from my flight experience. On Spirit, you have to pay extra if you want to put a bag in the overhead. How do they know whether you paid or not. I noticed people getting on the plane with large bags and no one was checking to verify payment.

It's indicated on your boarding pass. Thought it was tricky the first time I flew Spirit too. And this likely would have been answered in a sticky IF WE HAD A FORUM ;)

It's indicated on your boarding pass. Thought it was tricky the first time I flew Spirit too. And this likely would have been answered in a sticky IF WE HAD A FORUM ;)
Like many other airlines did before they got a forum, such as IB, you can always create a sticky in the Other Airlines forum

If a new forum is opened up for Spirit, where does this leave Easyjet, Ryanair, FlyBe and the scores of others?

I would argue that those airlines should be discussed in the Spirit forum. The TalkBoard might recommend that, or the Community Director could do so. It's just a matter of tweaking the name or subheading of the forum.

I would argue that those airlines should be discussed in the Spirit forum. The TalkBoard might recommend that, or the Community Director could do so. It's just a matter of tweaking the name or subheading of the forum.

But they're not connected at all! That's akin to discussing LH in the AC forum

I would argue that those airlines should be discussed in the Spirit forum. The TalkBoard might recommend that, or the Community Director could do so. It's just a matter of tweaking the name or subheading of the forum.Isn't the current Budget Travel or a child of BT a better home?

I would argue that those airlines should be discussed in the Spirit forum. The TalkBoard might recommend that, or the Community Director could do so. It's just a matter of tweaking the name or subheading of the forum.

Definitely an option to categorize smaller airlines in subforums.. that way they've got their own forum, but not clogging up the front page of the airline forum..

Perhaps, all airlines could be reviewed and determined if a front page forum, or a subcategory forum is warranted..

Isn't the current Budget Travel or a child of BT a better home?

No, not really. They doesn't usually post in Budget Travel forum. This is where it's belonged in ONA&SAFFP forum.

Marketing is superfluos and takes on many forms.. But a good brand image, isn't that FT wants to be associated with? It is a legitimate consideration..

I'm sorry, but I have no idea what it is you're attempting to say. My apologies.

I've redacted quite a number of postings that have gone over the line of advocacy, to something more akin to shilling for the airline. Some postings were little more than linking to historical data and market strategy right from Spirit's website, or pure hyperbole.

In removing some posts, replies to those have also been redacted, so as to assure that they are not taken out of context, or appear seemingly off-topic.

Let's try to follow historic Flyertalk pro/con debate protocols. Spirit does not need any more PR flacking than they already create on their own. Like the airline or not, they already know how to get attention!

My belief is that most points striving Flyertalkers probably would not be caught dead on Spirit, is not a reason to stifle discussion. A forum for this airline might be appropriate, and it's up to the TalkBoard to decide. Offer your pro/con positions, but recognize that FT'ers are a pretty smart bunch, and can smell BS from 33,000 feet!

My understanding is that most folks who vote against Spirit forum pure and simple do so because they don't like the airline, no matter what reason they state for their opposition. Which is fine but shouldn't be the reason of NOT discussing an airline with a positive cash flow (for a change).

Furthermore, most folks who vote against Spirit have never flown the airline and act the way they do due to all the bad publicity Spirit has accrued. Now, I have flown that airline, and there are a few takes I would like to offer on the subject.

The Good:

1. All the flights I've been on have delivered me from point A to point B with zero to little delays.

2. The ones I paid (not reward) were dirt cheap - no other airline gets even close to the prices one can snatch from Spirit.

3. Their on-board snack prices (oh, horrors!) are very reasonable. They are more than reasonable, in fact - they are like your average cafeteria prices.

4. Their carry-on baggage policy which is a subject to such intense outrage is entirely GAMEBLE. I, for example, have never paid any carry-on fees, and I do not intend to. And like someone else said, this forum is all about gaming the system.

5. Their gate agents and flight attendants are every bit as efficient and friendly as every other airline, or at least it's been my experience.

6. Unlike what others have said, I have successfully booked rewards flights on Spirit.

7. Like I already said before, their big front seats can be had very cheap, and those seats are essentially first class without free booze. Want the booze - buy it at $5-6 per drink, and you will not know the differrence. Or better yet, plan ahead and load up at the lounge.

The Bad:

1. They do squeeze every single inch out of their plane configurations. The seats are noticeably narrower than on major airlines.

2. You have to call to book an award, and there was a wait on the phone whenever I called. In this day and age not offering reward booking on the internet is a testement to a major lack of transparency on their part.

3. Booking rewards is difficult, and you have to be fairly flexible in order to succeed.

4. Even though I have never had a problem with Spirit, I would not book a business flight on them, neither would I if I heavily depended on timely connection - just in case.

The ugly:

Their sleazy marketing. I do believe that kind of marketing does them more harm than good. I mean, they do believe their base clientelle is stupid, but considering how fast their best fares get snatched, most of them are not. So they put every bit as much squeze on Spirit as Spirir puts on them.

Conclusion: like someone else said before, Spirit is an extremely gameable airline and we would gain more out of that gameability if there was a dedicated forum to learn. At the same time, Spirit would benefit as well, since fewer flyers would be scared to death to set a foot on that airline.

Just my $.002.

I'm sorry, but I have no idea what it is you're attempting to say. My apologies.

My point is that a reputable company is good to have FT to associate with.

An airline that is whose reputation is questionable (i.e. leaving passengers stranded, not giving out refunds on cancelled flights) is a factor when considering a forum or not.

Marketing, and delivering what is promised, is a good sign.. I'm not familiar with Spirit Air, but heard good things about it in general. If the reputation is good, then it would be good to have FT associate with it. A factor to be considered when granting a forum..

An airline that is whose reputation is questionable (i.e. leaving passengers stranded, not giving out refunds on cancelled flights) is a factor when considering a forum or not.

It is?

I have never, ever heard that used as a criterion for forum creation. Can you cite an example of when the TalkBoard created a forum where that was indeed an explicit factor? Or can you cite any guidelines about forum creation that includes that as a factor?

...but heard good things about it in general.

You and the others of like mind can hold a convention in a phone booth (presuming you can find one these days).

I'd personally want to see a Spirit forum, I see them as an airline with potential.

As for the US-based airlines without forums, I can count:

- Spirit
- Sun Country
- Allegiant
- Vision
- PenAir
- Go/Mesa (would count under Hawaii though)
-

My understanding is that most folks who vote against Spirit forum pure and simple do so because they don't like the airline, no matter what reason they state for their opposition.

Did you become a mind reader? I have not voted yet, but if I vote against Spirit it's because I'm not convinced it will have enough traffic to justify having its own forum. I really don't have any strong feelings either way towards the airline.

Thank you for your summary of 'the good, the bad & the ugly'.

Cheers.

After waffling on this for a while, I have taken the decision to vote for a Spirit forum.

I do believe it could become the biggest gripe-fest since untied dot com and that's a powerful reason to support it. Train wreck value, baby!

But I was really swayed by the notion that the airline embraces the fee-heavy approach (even brags about it) but that it can be gamed. Talking about gaming an airline's system is what FT is all about.

So I voted for a Spirit forum.

If it's a flop after 6 or 8 months, I'll support eliminating it.

As for other VLCCs, I thought about the notion of combining VLCCs into one forum, but I don't see how combining Spirit with Ryan, Easy, etc. made any more sense than having 'other' airlines split by geography.

So if someone wants to make another suggestion for a forum for a different VLCC, have at it.

Bottom feeders like Spirit don't deserve the time of day, let alone their own forum. If Spirit gets a forum, then the lowest of the low, Allegiant, should get a forum...

I fly them quite often and would like to see a forum dedicated to the airline.

If it's a flop after 6 or 8 months, I'll support eliminating it.

Whose criteria or metrics would be used to determine "flop"?

It is?

I have never, ever heard that used as a criterion for forum creation. Can you cite an example of when the TalkBoard created a forum where that was indeed an explicit factor? Or can you cite any guidelines about forum creation that includes that as a factor?



You and the others of like mind can hold a convention in a phone booth (presuming you can find one these days).

I'm not saying that it was a criterion.. I'm saying it should be a consideration.

As a business owner, I want to be afiliated with reputable businesses, and distance myself from non reputable businesses.. On a personal level, I want to relate with reputable individuals and distance myself otherwise.

I think FT as a business would do well to afiliate with reputation as a consideration.

The number of threads per month (see post #7) seems to low to justify a dedicated forum.

I would prefer a ultra-low cost carrier forum though (Spirit, Allegiant, Ryanair, easyjet etc)

I would prefer a ultra-low cost carrier forum though (Spirit, Allegiant, Ryanair, easyjet etc)


The thing is the Spirit is the main one for the Americas, while the others are mainly for Europe.

Whose criteria or metrics would be used to determine "flop"?

Toronto. ;)

I would prefer a ultra-low cost carrier forum though (Spirit, Allegiant, Ryanair, easyjet etc)

+1

The thing is the Spirit is the main one for the Americas, while the others are mainly for Europe.

Spirit cites the polices of the lower cost European airlines as a rationale for their policies. Lower limit for checked luggage. Limits on the amount of free luggage you're allowed to bring onboard. Spirit used to charge an online booking fee. Spirit was asking permission to display fares without showing a fuel surcharge. Spirit is trying to follow the same policies as the European low cost carriers, to the extent allowed by US rules.

I'd personally want to see a Spirit forum, I see them as an airline with potential.

As for the US-based airlines without forums, I can count:

- Spirit
- Sun Country
- Allegiant
- Vision
- PenAir
- Go/Mesa (would count under Hawaii though)
-

And also, without Latin/Central/South American & Caribbean airlines is:

- Aeromexico
- TACA
- Copa Airlines
- Avianca
- LanChile
- TAM
- Aero Continente
- Aerolineas Argentinas
- Caribbean Airlines
- Cubana
- Bahamasair
- Aeropostal
- Aerorepublica Colombia
- Air Atlantic Dominicana
- Air Saint Barthelemy (Barths Aviation)
- Air Saint Thomas
- Air Saint Martin
- RedJet.com
- ASERCA - Aeroservicios Carabobo
- Aries del Sur
- Avensa
- Carib Aviation
- Cayman Airways
- Dominair - Aerolineas Dominicanas
- Guyana Airways
- Haiti International Airlines
- LAB - Lloyd Aereo Boliviano
- LAPA - Lineas Aereas Privadas Argentinas
- LACSA - Lineasaereas Costarricenses SA
- LIAt - The Carribean Airline
- NICA - Nicaraguenses de Aviacion
- Santa Barbara Airlines
- TAMPA Colombia
- Turks and Caicos Airways
- VASP
- Volare Airlines

If you need anything to find more airlines in Latin/Central/South American or Caribbean, too.

http://www.avrefdesk.com/two_letter_airline_codes.htm

Did you become a mind reader? I have not voted yet, but if I vote against Spirit it's because I'm not convinced it will have enough traffic to justify having its own forum. I really don't have any strong feelings either way towards the airline.

Thank you for your summary of 'the good, the bad & the ugly'.

Cheers.

Mind reader - luckily not, but I've got a feeling the folks who actually flight Spirit do want the forum, and most of the folks who don't want the forum never fly them. So, why not unlock the door and see what follows? I mean what's the worst that can happen? How hard is it to shut the forum down if there is no interest?

Just saying, and cheers to you, too.

I'll play.

Could it be North Korea? :p

If Cuba has it's own forum, I fully support North Korea forum :D

A ^ for a Spirit Forum (a vote if I could)


There have been numerous posts to the effect that Spirit does not deserve its own forum, because it does not have enough of a folowing. To that, I say fooey.

Perhaps the reason it does not have that heavy of a FT folowing, is because it is hidden away at current in the "other" airlines forum.

Someone seeking information, providing feedback, sharing information is likely to look for a Spirit forum, and when they cannot find one, move on.


To the people who are so against adding a Spirit Forum because it may not be a popular forum, I would ask what the true harm is in adding one. Its not like FlyerTalk will be charged an additional $1000 a month for adding a forum. Even if one person a week should come to it, and have their questions answered, Id say, lets do it

A ^ for a Spirit Forum (a vote if I could)


There have been numerous posts to the effect that Spirit does not deserve its own forum, because it does not have enough of a folowing. To that, I say fooey.

Perhaps the reason it does not have that heavy of a FT folowing, is because it is hidden away at current in the "other" airlines forum.

Someone seeking information, providing feedback, sharing information is likely to look for a Spirit forum, and when they cannot find one, move on.


To the people who are so against adding a Spirit Forum because it may not be a popular forum, I would ask what the true harm is in adding one. Its not like FlyerTalk will be charged an additional $1000 a month for adding a forum. Even if one person a week should come to it, and have their questions answered, Id say, lets do it

Ageed - lots to talk about with spirit

To the people who are so against adding a Spirit Forum because it may not be a popular forum, I would ask what the true harm is in adding one.

That could be and probably has been said about every proposed new forum. More is better until FT gets to be a place with so much the complaint becomes forums aren't easy to find or there's too many of them.

I've no strong feelings either way on this one but have expressed reservations about whether a Spirit forum is really necessary. I just don't support the argument that simply because TB can create new forums means it always should.

A ^ for a Spirit Forum (a vote if I could)


There have been numerous posts to the effect that Spirit does not deserve its own forum, because it does not have enough of a folowing. To that, I say fooey.

Perhaps the reason it does not have that heavy of a FT folowing, is because it is hidden away at current in the "other" airlines forum.

Someone seeking information, providing feedback, sharing information is likely to look for a Spirit forum, and when they cannot find one, move on.


To the people who are so against adding a Spirit Forum because it may not be a popular forum, I would ask what the true harm is in adding one. Its not like FlyerTalk will be charged an additional $1000 a month for adding a forum. Even if one person a week should come to it, and have their questions answered, Id say, lets do it

Typically there are 2 down-sides to creating a new forum:

1) It could draw eyes away rather than focus eyes on. That's why we just got rid of Toronto: more likely to get a Toronto question answered in the busier Canada forum. That is something that does not apply here, imho.

2) It is more work for the (unpaid, volunteer) moderators to have to moderate an additional forum. But since there are so many volunteers to moderate that volunteers are routinely turned away, I don't worry too much about this one.

Bottom line, I don't see a downside to adding this forum. But there IS a point at which I would not want to put up a new forum. And I think Spirit may be as low as I am willing to go in terms of proven volume of posts.

In accordance with the recently changed guidelines that means we'll announce if a motion has passed or failed once enough yes or no votes have been recorded by TB members, this is the public notice that this motion will fail as it will not secure 6 yes votes.

Please note that not all TB members have voted yet, and so a final announcement with who voted yes/no will not be posted until all 9 have voted or the voting period ends.

In accordance with the recently changed guidelines that means we'll announce if a motion has passed or failed once enough yes or no votes have been recorded by TB members, this is the public notice that this motion will fail as it will not secure 6 yes votes.

Please note that not all TB members have voted yet, and so a final announcement with who voted yes/no will not be posted until all 9 have voted or the voting period ends.

I'm sorry the motion will not pass, but VERY pleased that all posters get to know that fact now rather than in up to a week from now.

For those who supported a Spirit forum, I suggest that the best way to make a case for it in the future is to talk your hearts out about Spirit on the Other North America forum. @:-) ^

this is the public notice that this motion will fail as it will not secure 6 yes votes.

Please note that not all TB members have voted yet, and so a final announcement with who voted yes/no will not be posted until all 9 have voted or the voting period ends.

Sharon, thanks for the headsup!

Perhaps the reason it does not have that heavy of a FT folowing, is because it is hidden away at current in the "other" airlines forum.

Someone seeking information, providing feedback, sharing information is likely to look for a Spirit forum, and when they cannot find one, move on.


For future reference, this argument will NEVER fly when creating a new forum is at issue. I've said it before in thread (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/17990130-post66.html). Allow me to try again.

Take Malaysia for example. Folks go to our Destination>>Asia Forum (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/asia-460/) when they have questions or want to discuss about Malaysia because there's no a Malaysia Forum on FT, or MOD team will help move Malaysia threads over to Asia Forum when misplaced. Folks don't stop talking about Malaysia on FT just because they can't find a standalone forum for it.

Could it be possible for those who make said easy decisions to "move on" without posting anything about Spirit when they can't find Spirit Forum on FT, as you had implied, whatever they originally wanted to seek/provide/share is not worth the effort or time? Or maybe there's just not that many of them to start with, either they decide to "move on" or not?

If Spirit Airlines deserve a forum on FT, please make good arguments for it. Without faulty logic, of course.
All I am saying is please make good case for it, and prepare to back Spirit up with good statistics, data, or arguments.

I'm sorry the motion will not pass, but VERY pleased that all posters get to know that fact now rather than in up to a week from now.

For those who supported a Spirit forum, I suggest that the best way to make a case for it in the future is to talk your hearts out about Spirit on the Other North America forum. @:-) ^

Or move to this new thread about a multi-airline forum (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkboard-topics/1314528-new-forum-fee-happy-airlines.html).

Or move to this new thread about a multi-airline forum (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkboard-topics/1314528-new-forum-fee-happy-airlines.html).

FYI - I've not yet voted on Spirit because I wanted to hear more from Spirit folk re: why it should become a forum & was willing to give them a few more days to make their case (still am, in case this comes up again).

I'm not supportive on nsx's new proposed forum because I think there are too many problems w/ it, but please - on that proposal, post in that thread not this one.

Cheers.

Couple of questions: Why "will it fail?" Has it garnered enough "no" votes that it has failed already, or is this an assumption?

Also, will TAM eventually join the LAN forum?

Finally, doesn't it make sense to make Copa a sub-forum inside the UA forum, considering they share the same FFP, MileagePlus?

Couple of questions: Why "will it fail?" Has it garnered enough "no" votes that it has failed already, or is this an assumption?

Also, will TAM eventually join the LAN forum?

Finally, doesn't it make sense to make Copa a sub-forum inside the UA forum, considering they share the same FFP, MileagePlus?

1. It has not garnered enough yes votes to pass based on votes recorded, so per the recent amendment of the guidelines when a motion has enough yes or no votes to know if it will pass/fail, that will be posted publicly (as I did). However, the final tally of yes/no votes & who voted which way won't happen publicly until all 9 TB members have voted or the voting period ends.

2. I think you'd need to talk to TAM & LAN, but a gentle reminder that this thread is about Spirit, not TAM & LAN.

3. If you'd like to create a separate thread on Copa feel free to do so, but a gentle reminder that this thread is about Spirit, not Copa.

Cheers.

Couple of questions: Why "will it fail?" Has it garnered enough "no" votes that it has failed already, or is this an assumption?

Also, will TAM eventually join the LAN forum?

Finally, doesn't it make sense to make Copa a sub-forum inside the UA forum, considering they share the same FFP, MileagePlus?

Since Sharon's publicly announced this, I think it's OK if I clarify: It failed because there is no way for the motion to receive enough yes votes to pass.

The most common scenario for this is if the motion has already received 4 "no" votes.

I bet it was a 5/4 split, sad we were so close! :eek:

I bet it was a 5/4 split, sad we were so close! :eek:

I wouldn't read anything into this -- there could still be votes outstanding (matter of fact, there are or Sharon would've posted who voted which way).

But hey, you merely wanted an up or down on this...and we provided that.

I wouldn't read anything into this -- there could still be votes outstanding (matter of fact, there are or Sharon would've posted who voted which way).

But hey, you merely wanted an up or down on this...and we provided that.


Thats true, I have no hard feelings eather way. In the future, I think Spirit will have it's own forum; with others who make a strong case for it, in six months or so. All in all, it has been a learning experience for me and I wish others, good luck for a future vote.

I bet it was a 5/4 split, sad we were so close! :eek:
I wish I developed such mind-reading ability with all the time I've spent on TalkBoard Topics Forum. Maybe I should go and buy a crystal ball instead? :p

I think Spirit will have it's own forum; with others who make a strong case for it, in six months or so.
If I were you, I wouldn't bet my money on that (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkboard-topics/999080-proposal-korean-travel-forum.html). ;)

The most common scenario for this is if the motion has already received 4 "no" votes.

The only other scenarios that would lead to failure before all votes are cast are a stretch IMO:

*3 "no" votes and 1 abstain
*5 abstentions (note that a motion with 4 abstentions could still pass if all of the other 5 vote "yes")

I wish I developed such mind-reading ability with all the time I've spent on TalkBoard Topics Forum. Maybe I should go and buy a crystal ball instead? :p


If I were you, I wouldn't bet my money on that (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkboard-topics/999080-proposal-korean-travel-forum.html). ;)

How much more time would there be, I mean we have been in a 6 year waiting pattern?

In the end, I am happy to have others, take the torch toward a final victory. How one will show that the future thread would be a success, is something I don't fully understand. This is so subjective, I don't see how it will be done, with even something with controversy: which would bring about much forum postings and general interest.

Perhaps in the end, both Spirit & Ryanair both deserve their own forums: perhaps next tie there should be a joint motion for both to get their own forums, through one Talkboard vote.

If Cuba has it's own forum, I fully support North Korea forum :D

Cuba is a major vacation destination for Canadians, and I noticed that many Europeans travel there on vacation. It is a beautiful peaceful country that is not in the threat of war, and onerous dictatorship.

Yes, there is a dictatorship in Cuba, but its largely at peace, and no longer poses a threat to any neighboring country.

Btw, the most beautiful beach maybe Varadero.. incredible fine white sand in blue water.

Folks, a gentle reminder that this thread is about Spirit. If you want to suggest a different forum, please start a different thread (or bump up an old one).

Cheers.

How much more time would there be, I mean we have been in a 6 year waiting pattern?

Just to clarify for others. While there was a motion 6 years ago that got tabled, there were 2 threads created in '08 & '09 suggesting Spirit as a forum. I believe one received 5 responses & one received 2, so not a lot of support from even FTers for the forum, hence it not being brought up for a motion at those times.

The only reason it did this time was because gkbiiii pressed so hard for it & said he'd be fine with a straight up/down answer.

Cheers.

1. It has not garnered enough yes votes to pass based on votes recorded, so per the recent amendment of the guidelines when a motion has enough yes or no votes to know if it will pass/fail, that will be posted publicly (as I did). However, the final tally of yes/no votes & who voted which way won't happen publicly until all 9 TB members have voted or the voting period ends.


If I may make a comment... while I appreciate the early heads up on the vote count, I think TB should hold off releasing the results until the deadline arrives.

As seen on recent threads, we get in to discussion about who voted/if they voted/how they voted. It's as if TB is leaking information, which I believe can cause resentment and ill will, especially to TB members that wait until the last minute.

I can start a TB thread on this topic, but there seems to be a rash of (silly?) threads in this forum recently, so I'll pass.

dh

If I may make a comment... while I appreciate the early heads up on the vote count, I think TB should hold off releasing the results until the deadline arrives.

As seen on recent threads, we get in to discussion about who voted/if they voted/how they voted. It's as if TB is leaking information, which I believe can cause resentment and ill will, especially to TB members that wait until the last minute.

I can start a TB thread on this topic, but there seems to be a rash of (silly?) threads in this forum recently, so I'll pass.

dh

DH, did you miss the fact that the TB discussed this issue, voted on it, and it passed? Look at this thread: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkboard-topics/1309335-comments-welcome-voting-underway-amend-talkboard-guidelines-voting-results-disclosure.html

It appears from your post that you must have completely missed that thread, which is why Sharon posted the fact that this motion will fail. The TB guidelines were amended so that she can (and I guess technically is required to) divulge the pass/fail before all votes are cast if the end result can be determined. If it comes down to the wire (i.e. there are 5 yeas and 3 nays), the pass/fail is not revealed until the 9th TB member has voted.

DH, did you miss the fact that the TB discussed this issue, voted on it, and it passed?

Yes. I did miss that thread. :o The reason I missed it is because this forum has been cluttered with multiple active threads recently, which hasn't always been the case. ;)
Not to mention the fact that I've been a partial reader of this forum recently.

I think that no one should ever fly spirit or use their point program.
I made a mistake last year and acquired apprx 40000 Spirit point for both my wife and myselve. I recentlty used most of the points for a "free" trip. I booked 4 months in advance. With fees for telephone booking, I had to for us to fly together, reserved seats in the back of the plane, and luggage fees, 2 carryons and 1 checked bag, I paid over $700.00 for my "free" flight.
Never again Spirit!!!
Stay away from Spirit!!

I think that no one should ever fly spirit or use their point program.
I made a mistake last year and acquired apprx 40000 Spirit point for both my wife and myselve. I recentlty used most of the points for a "free" trip. I booked 4 months in advance. With fees for telephone booking, I had to for us to fly together, reserved seats in the back of the plane, and luggage fees, 2 carryons and 1 checked bag, I paid over $700.00 for my "free" flight.
Never again Spirit!!!
Stay away from Spirit!!

Welcome to FT! ^

(see, I TOLD you that having a forum to b1tch about Spirit would drive new posters to FT! ;))

(see, I TOLD you that having a forum to b1tch about Spirit would drive new posters to FT! ;))
Well, koko, if I were you, I wouldn't call a fellow FTer who signed up back in April 2009 as "new." YMMV. :p

I would vote for it if I could figure out how to vote. I clicked on the link and only get general pages. Anyway, down here in South Florida, Spirit is a really big deal plus or minus. To dismiss it, is kind of to dismiss the Caribbean and Central America.

I would vote for it if I could figure out how to vote. I clicked on the link and only get general pages. Anyway, down here in South Florida, Spirit is a really big deal plus or minus. To dismiss it, is kind of to dismiss the Caribbean and Central America.

General members are not able to vote on this sort of thing. Only TalkBoard members are able to vote on motions like this.

General members elect TalkBoard members each year.

I would vote for it if I could figure out how to vote. I clicked on the link and only get general pages.
FWIW, this is how TB works and who vote on TB motions (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkboard-topics/918161-what-talkboard-how-new-forums-other-suggestions-considered.html).

Spend a few moments to learn about TB and TB Topics Forum so you know how and when to participate and voice your opinions in the future. :)

I didn't read all the posts concerning pro's and con's and I personally don't care for the airline because of a bad experience, but I believe information on airlines would be easier to locate if divided by name. Just my opinion.

Please note, this is my first entry into any flyertalk forum. The subject of Spirit Airlines caught my attention. I would vote NO for a separate forum. Of the airlines in the US, Spirit is at the bottom of my list. Any need to talk about them would be well suited to a general forum. Perhaps, someday, they will do something really worthwhile and we can "elevate" them. I flew them once, and that was enough - you know, the close seats, the carry-on bag charge, etc. So, I vote NO.

Please note, this is my first entry into any flyertalk forum. The subject of Spirit Airlines caught my attention. I would vote NO for a separate forum. Of the airlines in the US, Spirit is at the bottom of my list. Any need to talk about them would be well suited to a general forum. Perhaps, someday, they will do something really worthwhile and we can "elevate" them. I flew them once, and that was enough - you know, the close seats, the carry-on bag charge, etc. So, I vote NO.

Did you ever think if there was a readily available Spirit forum with most other US airlines you may have found out how "bottom of your list" they would be and then maybe never even flown them and had that bad experience in the first place. The info about the close seats, carry on bag charges and everything else bad about them would have easily been available to you. This is why I continue to believe certain TB members have an agenda against airlines like NK, (see my earlier post for more details) that they will never fly.

I don't like NK much either, but they serve a purpose in the US air travel industry and have a niche. Their niche has a lot of problems in it and this is all information that should be easily available here on a community called FT and it's not unless you really know where to look.

Why having more information, whether good or bad about an airline such as Spirit, easily available to find is beyond me, but apparently not to some. Hopefully one day soon that will change.

Well, koko, if I were you, I wouldn't call a fellow FTer who signed up back in April 2009 as "new." YMMV. :p

Got him or her to de-lurk, though! :D

Spirit should definitely have its own forum.

Their policies and fees are so wacky and dynamic it would be nice to have a forum to discuss

I think that no one should ever fly spirit or use their point program.
I made a mistake last year and acquired apprx 40000 Spirit point for both my wife and myselve. I recentlty used most of the points for a "free" trip. I booked 4 months in advance. With fees for telephone booking, I had to for us to fly together, reserved seats in the back of the plane, and luggage fees, 2 carryons and 1 checked bag, I paid over $700.00 for my "free" flight.
Never again Spirit!!!
Stay away from Spirit!!
Welcome to FT!

On February 22, 2012, Talkboard failed to pass 6-3:

Create a Spirit Airlines forum.

Voting yes: kokonutz, nsx, RichMSN
Voting no: bhatnasx, Cholula, goalie, jackal, SkiAdcock, Spiff

On February 22, 2012, Talkboard failed to pass 6-3:

Create a Spirit Airlines forum.

Voting yes: kokonutz, nsx, RichMSN
Voting no: bhatnasx, Cholula, goalie, jackal, SkiAdcock, Spiff

A sad day, for The Little Airline that Could. In my boyhood many thought America West would go down the tubes; however it would defy then and become a major, with it's own 747s to Asia. Who knows little Spirit; what will the future be, the growth and determination to be "Arguably the Best Airline in the America's", to the days of it's founding, as the Spirit of Spirit Air.

I'm really not sure what you're trying to say; maybe remove some of the surfeit of commas? Are you asking a question? Making a prediction? I just can't tell.

I'm really not sure what you're trying to say; maybe remove some of the surfeit of commas? Are you asking a question? Making a prediction? I just can't tell.
If it were a prediction, I am not sure how it would pan out, giving what happend to the last one: ;)

I bet it was a 5/4 split, sad we were so close! :eek:

while in reality:
On February 22, 2012, Talkboard failed to pass 6-3

Maybe it's time to do another MR and get a crystal ball replacement? :D

A sad day, for The Little Airline that Could. In my boyhood many thought America West would go down the tubes; however it would defy then and become a major, with it's own 747s to Asia. Who knows little Spirit; what will the future be, the growth and determination to be "Arguably the Best Airline in the America's", to the days of it's founding, as the Spirit of Spirit Air.

Good God. Come clean, already. You work for Spirit, don't you?

Good God. Come clean, already. You work for Spirit, don't you?

If they did, perhaps it would be beneficial to ask to be their company rep, if they wanted an official presence on FT. :)

If they did, perhaps it would be beneficial to ask to be their company rep, if they wanted an official presence on FT. :)Agreed ^

I'm really not sure what you're trying to say; maybe remove some of the surfeit of commas? Are you asking a question? Making a prediction? I just can't tell.

Nobody gets my humor?? :)

Nobody gets my humor?? :)
There can be a very thin line between humor and obnoxiousness. Sometimes. Nothing personal. I am just saying. ;)

Gotta time the vote around the election to have a chance to push a forum like Spirit through. Its all about timing.:)

If they did, perhaps it would be beneficial to ask to be their company rep, if they wanted an official presence on FT. :)

I did and here was their response:


Dear George,



Thank you for your interest in Spirit Airlines and in defending our business model; however, at this time we are not interested in promoting a Spirit Flyer Talk forum.


Regards,

DeAnne Gabel
Director Investor Relations
Spirit Airlines

I did and here was their response:


Dear George,



Thank you for your interest in Spirit Airlines and in defending our business model; however, at this time we are not interested in promoting a Spirit Flyer Talk forum.


Regards,

DeAnne Gabel
Director Investor Relations
Spirit Airlines

Spirit promoting a Spirit Flyer Talk Forum? Did Spirit think they would have to market the forum?

Spirit promoting a Spirit Flyer Talk Forum? Did Spirit think they would have to market the forum?


I have no idea, I sent them a short message about what I was trying to do and asked if there was anything that they wanted the Flyertalk community to know about Spirit. I was honest with them about their airline being controversial on Flyertalk, but that it might be a misunderstanding of their airline.

Considering that their CEO, Ben Baldanza was a former US Airways executive, perhaps he is already well aware of flyertalk! I pulled no punches and tried to honest with Spirit about the overall view of Flyertalkers to the airline. I believe that Spirit is afraid of a knowledgeable public; thus wants to avoid Flyertalk at all costs!

February 8, 2012


DeAnne Gabel
Director Investor Relations
Spirit Airlines
(954) 447-7920
investorrelations@spirit.com


Dear Director Gabel,



I am writing to you today, because I need your help with a project I am working on, with an airline forum. For over six years, (Mar 31, 06---Feb 7, 2012) the motion to create a Spirit forum on Flyertalk.com has been tabled. This week I have been able to get this issue to voted on by the Flyertalk Board, after being in limbo for six years. In that time, airlines such as JetBlue, AirTran, Virgin America, AirBerlin, etc., have been able to get their own forum; while Spirit has been denied.

Now, your airline is VERY controversial on Flyertalk due to it's fees and practices; thus, this is going to be a difficult battle. My premise is going to be that Spirit is an important carrier, that deserves the forum, rather it is liked or not. The problem is in many ways, this is the Rodney Dangerfield of Airlines; ie., Spirit gets no respect! By now you can see my challenge, perhaps yours as well.

Any help your organization and management can give me, to present to the Flyertalk community about the airline, its principles, its purpose, company philosophy, etc., would be greatly appreciated. If your Chairman, Ben Baldanza could write a short letter or similar it would be a great help. Your's is an often misunderstood airline, that could possibly through Flyertalk, at least be able to explain how it does business. The public (& Media) are often amazed/troubled by your policies and ad campaigns. I believe Flyertalk would be a great place for your company to be better understood.


Sincerely,

Of course no one would respond positively to that email. You talk of none of the advantages of FT, and only talk about how hard its going to be to sway the members that already hate Spirit for "its fees and practices".

And then you ask for the Chairman to write a letter.

:confused: :confused:

Since when does FT ask travel providers to help in getting a forum established? If anything, I would consider any such promotion from the management against FT principles and commercial in nature.

While we have company reps, they became so after years of unofficially being liason's for their company.

I don't believe that Sprirt meets the FT requirements for a forum and that's why it was voted down.

February 8, 2012


DeAnne Gabel
Director Investor Relations
Spirit Airlines
(954) 447-7920
investorrelations@spirit.com


Dear Director Gabel,



I am writing to you today, because I need your help with a project I am working on, with an airline forum. For over six years, (Mar 31, 06---Feb 7, 2012) the motion to create a Spirit forum on Flyertalk.com has been tabled. This week I have been able to get this issue to voted on by the Flyertalk Board, after being in limbo for six years. In that time, airlines such as JetBlue, AirTran, Virgin America, AirBerlin, etc., have been able to get their own forum; while Spirit has been denied.

Now, your airline is VERY controversial on Flyertalk due to it's fees and practices; thus, this is going to be a difficult battle. My premise is going to be that Spirit is an important carrier, that deserves the forum, rather it is liked or not. The problem is in many ways, this is the Rodney Dangerfield of Airlines; ie., Spirit gets no respect! By now you can see my challenge, perhaps yours as well.

Any help your organization and management can give me, to present to the Flyertalk community about the airline, its principles, its purpose, company philosophy, etc., would be greatly appreciated. If your Chairman, Ben Baldanza could write a short letter or similar it would be a great help. Your's is an often misunderstood airline, that could possibly through Flyertalk, at least be able to explain how it does business. The public (& Media) are often amazed/troubled by your policies and ad campaigns. I believe Flyertalk would be a great place for your company to be better understood.


Sincerely,

It doesn't matter who writes a letter -- this current TalkBoard is not going to vote in a Spirit forum. And to be honest, while I voted for it this time around, there's no guarantee I'd do so next time around, either.

The horse is dead. Please stop beating it.

The horse is dead. Please stop beating it.

Yes, thank you! Please!

I have recieved a long letter from Ben Baldanza about Spirit, my personal questions I had for him, his understanding of Flyertalk, etc. Here is one quote from Baldanza (the full letter has been posted on the North/South Airline forum):

"I am very familiar with Flyertalk, and was sometimes the “whipping boy” for the US Airways forum during my time there."

A sad day, for The Little Airline that Could. In my boyhood many thought America West would go down the tubes; however it would defy then and become a major, with it's own 747s to Asia. Who knows little Spirit; what will the future be, the growth and determination to be "Arguably the Best Airline in the America's", to the days of it's founding, as the Spirit of Spirit Air.

+1000

Why were people against having it's own forum?

I still fail to see the negatives of having all the info and threads in one place?

It's worse than all the Casey Serin haterzTM

I have recieved a long letter from Ben Baldanza about Spirit, my personal questions I had for him, his understanding of Flyertalk, etc. Here is one quote from Baldanza (the full letter has been posted on the North/South Airline forum):

"I am very familiar with Flyertalk, and was sometimes the “whipping boy” for the US Airways forum during my time there."

Well your letter to Ben was more specific than your letter to the IR person.

From what everyone says about Spirit's practices, I'm guessing Ben is or will be the 'whipping boy' in the traveling community in general ;)

Cheers.

+1000

Why were people against having it's own forum?

I still fail to see the negatives of having all the info and threads in one place?

TB considered creating a Spirit forum, but the case wasn't made that it should be a stand-alone forum vs. residing in its current location, hence it not getting approved.

Cheers.

I still fail to see the negatives of having all the info and threads in one place?

FWIW, under current structure, it already IS in "one place", which is called Other North & South America Frequent Flyer Programs Forum (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/other-north-south-america-frequent-flyer-programs-472/).

Sometimes folks choose to post Spirit related threads somewhere else, but that's another issue. Just like there are cases where FTers make a Japan thread (see here (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/japan/1317455-japan-trip-kyoto.html)) in TravelBuzz Forum and Thailand topic in Asia Forum (see this (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/thailand/1315595-questionnaire-people-visiting-bangkok-please-help.html)). MODs usually move those "misplaced" threads to the right fora fairly fast. A standalone Japan (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/japan-509/) and Thailand Forum (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/thailand-624/) simply don't guarantee people post threads in the corresponding fora.

Well your letter to Ben was more specific than your letter to the IR person.

From what everyone says about Spirit's practices, I'm guessing Ben is or will be the 'whipping boy' in the traveling community in general ;)

Cheers.



Many of you all may, hate Ben for many reasons, but this guy does have some class. He personally wrote back to me twice, in 24 hours. He also got a copy of the letter I sent to PR. He unlike many here, does have a since of humor and was truly forthright about his airline and how he turned it around. Without Ben, would the airline still even be in business??


Also, my main question to all you Platinums, Diamonds, Executive Platinums, Chairmans, etc.; if you wrote to the CEO of your preferred airline, would they actually get back with you, personally??

My prediction on Talkboard voting may have been wrong: if you read his detailed explanation of how he turned Spirit around, perhaps you see a coming Sam Walton of his industry in the near future. :eek::cool:

Also, my main question to all you Platinums, Diamonds, Executive Platinums, Chairmans, etc.; if you wrote to the CEO of your preferred airline, would they actually get back with you, personally??

This is taking the thread off-topic, but to answer your question. Glenn Tilton of United Airlines responded to me personally - 10 minutes after I emailed him.

Re: hating Ben. I don't know the guy. No feelings towards him one way or the other. Same with Spirit - I don't have feelings one way or the other.

The case wasn't made to have Spirit be a stand-alone forum. You wanted a straight up/down vote by TB. You got it. Time to move on.

Cheers.

This is taking the thread off-topic, but to answer your question. Glenn Tilton of United Airlines responded to me personally - 10 minutes after I emailed him.

Re: hating Ben. I don't know the guy. No feelings towards him one way or the other. Same with Spirit - I don't have feelings one way or the other.

The case wasn't made to have Spirit be a stand-alone forum. You wanted a straight up/down vote by TB. You got it. Time to move on.

Cheers.


His time at US Airways, I do believe effected the vote. Many US Flyertalkers HATE him, (for what he did at US) and thus, by association, the airline he now heads! I mean why would so many Flyertalkers hate him, if they had never flow his airline? It has to be (as Ben himself stated) his time as Senior Vice President of Marketing at USAir.

Nope. I've been on about 4 US flights in my life.

I would suggest that you stop trying to ascribe any ulterior motive to the vote other than "there just isn't enough volume," which to me is probably why others voted against it.

And please, please, please learn how to use (fewer) commas.

... if you wrote to the CEO of your preferred airline, would they actually get back with you, personally??
I assume among all the CEOs you ever wrote to, he is the only CEO that ever got back to you?

... if you read his detailed explanation of how he turned Spirit around, perhaps you see a coming Sam Walton of his industry in the near future.
His time at US Airways, I do believe effected the vote. Many US Flyertalkers HATE him, (for what he did at US) and thus, by association, the airline he now heads! I mean why would so many Flyertalkers hate him, if they had never flow his airline? It has to be (as Ben himself stated) his time as Senior Vice President of Marketing at USAir.
Are we talking about creating a Ben Baldanza Forum on FT? :confused:

I don't get it and really, I don't get it. What's the connection between how a CEO does his job and FT should establish or fold a forum for say airline/hotel/company? :confused::confused:

If you read the detailed explanation of how new forums are being considered on FT (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/11201697-post2.html), you'll know there's nothing there about CEOs. Seriously. Please cut it.

FWIW, it may be hard for you to accept, but there's just not enough good arguments for TB to approve this motion. Not in the past, and especially not now. I don't know about what's in the store for the future. But I don't think you are helping your case or cause at all.

His time at US Airways, I do believe effected the vote. Many US Flyertalkers HATE him, (for what he did at US) and thus, by association, the airline he now heads! I mean why would so many Flyertalkers hate him, if they had never flow his airline? It has to be (as Ben himself stated) his time as Senior Vice President of Marketing at USAir.
I've never flown US Air. Never flown Spirit either. I not only do not hate the CEO, I've never heard of him.

The airline didn't meet the qualifications for a forum, no matter how hard to try to make it appear that there is a bias.

His time at US Airways, I do believe effected the vote.

Actually, it was the TalkBoard that effected the vote.


I would suggest that you stop trying to ascribe any ulterior motive to the vote other than "there just isn't enough volume," which to me is probably why others voted against it. And please, please, please learn how to use (fewer) commas.

And I agree with you on all counts! (:eek: Is the moon full? :D)

And I agree with you on all counts! (:eek: Is the moon full? :D)

Nope. There is no full moon tonight. Sorry, man. Better luck next time. I have nothing can be done to creating new NK forum. There is nothing can do it. No one who is not interested to creating new NK forum.

Sorry.. what's so good about Spirit? I was looking at their domestic baggage fees today, and its double compared to some airlines.

Sorry.. what's so good about Spirit? I was looking at their domestic baggage fees today, and its double compared to some airlines.

They can also have very low base fares, which rely on the higher ancillary revenues (baggage fees, seat assignments, etc)

For the infrequent traveler who can pack an underseat carryon, and doesnt care about what seat they have, it can provide a good deal. Add the other fees, they are in line with most other carriers charge.

I would suggest that you stop trying to ascribe any ulterior motive to the vote other than "there just isn't enough volume," which to me is probably why others voted against it.

* That's why I voted against it.


If you read the detailed explanation of how new forums are being considered on FT (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/11201697-post2.html), you'll know there's nothing there about CEOs. Seriously. Please cut it.

FWIW, it may be hard for you to accept, but there's just not enough good arguments for TB to approve this motion. I don't know about what's in the store for the future. But I don't think you are helping your case or cause at all.

+1.

I've never flown US Air. Never flown Spirit either. I not only do not hate the CEO, I've never heard of him.

The airline didn't meet the qualifications for a forum, no matter how hard to try to make it appear that there is a bias.

+1.

I'm basically done w/ this thread. Even if gkbiiii isn't moving on, I am.

Cheers.

Interesting to see how TalkBoard members do not understand what goes on inside the airlines. Sending letters to inverstor relations without explaining exactly what FlyerTalk is... well, don't expect a good response. Most airline employees in investor relations and PR don't know about this community or don't understand this community.

As much as I would like to see a Spirit Forum and think that FlyerTalk can benefit from it, it is up to the TalkBoard members to decided, and some of these members are business travelers that just don't like the LCC's because they don't offer the perks they are used to... I know most of them will trash me or delete this comments for saying this, but it is the truth.

As an airline employee and academic resercher in Loyalty Marketing and behavioral decision making, I've been able to understand what airline customers think of frequent flyer programs. In my opinion, Free Spirit should not even exist... just by doing simple math (using basic mile acquisition cost and fees charged), in 70% of the cases it costs more to redeem an award than buying the same ticket without using miles. In the end, customers get angree, but still fly Spirit because they are price sensitive and most of the times they are the cheapest.

To NK, Free Spirit is a good source of ancilliary revenue which genereates profits by giving customers miles but taking advantage of very complicated rules that VFR customers do not understand. Many LCC's, like EasyJet and Ryanair, have tried FF Programs and decided to discontinue them because they were very expensive to operate and customers never understood them... since NK is not a true LCC (*LCC definitions vary), and more of a hybrid LCC with hub and spoke + some O&D markets, they have been able to keep this program thanks to the revenues it generates from the cobranded credit card with BofA. Nevertheless, I think they are struggling to meet contractual targets of new card acquisitions and if they don't sign more partners, the program might struggle and prove to be unprofitable.

I don't think NK's management wants to push for a Free Spirit Forum in Flyertalk, since it will give customers an option to better understand the program and the award system...

This is a research papaer I wrote last year for a Research Conference:

http://scholarworks.umass.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1316&context=gradconf_hospitality

I know most of them will trash me or delete this comments for saying this, but it is the truth.

You must be thinking of some other website that actually censors members' opinions. FT is not one that does that, and never has.

You know that Ben was the former Senior Vice President of Marketing for US Airways. From his days there, he knows quite a bit about Flyertalk and its view of him.

Spirits main problem with their BofA card, is that it is geared to top wage earners; people whom will not fly Spirit. Why they promote a World Mastercard (how many Spirit flyers even qualify for this) is beyond me. Their focus should be on secured cards, basic starter cards and debit cards. It seems to me, Spirit could make cash buy selling miles, something Us Airways has done with great abandon.

You know that Ben was the former Senior Vice President of Marketing for US Airways. From his days there, he knows quite a bit about Flyertalk and its view of him.

Yes, I did know that having read post#166. The horse, however, is still dead.

Interesting to see how TalkBoard members do not understand what goes on inside the airlines.

Why do you assume TB members don't understand airlines?

Sending letters to inverstor relations without explaining exactly what FlyerTalk is... well, don't expect a good response. Most airline employees in investor relations and PR don't know about this community or don't understand this community.

Recall that no one from TB sent a letter to NK

As much as I would like to see a Spirit Forum and think that FlyerTalk can benefit from it, it is up to the TalkBoard members to decided,

Correct, and they've decided that there is no need. Story's over

and some of these members are business travelers that just don't like the LCC's because they don't offer the perks they are used to

Seriously? How many times has it been shown, AGAIN AND AGAIN, that the forum was not approved because there hasn't been shown enough traffic for it. Everyone has made clear that they voted one way or the other EXCLUSIVELY BECAUSE OF THE TRAFFIC. Never before, and certainly not now, has TB ever considered their personal feelings of the airline in voting for it. Whether they hate it or not, they vote because of how the FORUM will do. They could care less about the airline itself.

I know most of them will trash me or delete this comments for saying this, but it is the truth.

Trash, yes. Delete - only because it's dilatory at this point since the vote has already happened. Not because of censorship

As an airline employee and academic resercher in Loyalty Marketing and behavioral decision making, I've been able to understand what airline customers think of frequent flyer programs. In my opinion, Free Spirit should not even exist... just by doing simple math (using basic mile acquisition cost and fees charged), in 70% of the cases it costs more to redeem an award than buying the same ticket without using miles. In the end, customers get angree, but still fly Spirit because they are price sensitive and most of the times they are the cheapest.

To NK, Free Spirit is a good source of ancilliary revenue which genereates profits by giving customers miles but taking advantage of very complicated rules that VFR customers do not understand. Many LCC's, like EasyJet and Ryanair, have tried FF Programs and decided to discontinue them because they were very expensive to operate and customers never understood them... since NK is not a true LCC (*LCC definitions vary), and more of a hybrid LCC with hub and spoke + some O&D markets, they have been able to keep this program thanks to the revenues it generates from the cobranded credit card with BofA. Nevertheless, I think they are struggling to meet contractual targets of new card acquisitions and if they don't sign more partners, the program might struggle and prove to be unprofitable.

I don't think NK's management wants to push for a Free Spirit Forum in Flyertalk, since it will give customers an option to better understand the program and the award system...

This is a research papaer I wrote last year for a Research Conference:

http://scholarworks.umass.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1316&context=gradconf_hospitality

:rolleyes:

Interesting to see how TalkBoard members do not understand what goes on inside the airlines. Sending letters to inverstor relations without explaining exactly what FlyerTalk is... well, don't expect a good response. Most airline employees in investor relations and PR don't know about this community or don't understand this community.
Are you referring to gkbiiii, who wrote that letter (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/18072888-post161.html)?

February 8, 2012


DeAnne Gabel
Director Investor Relations
Spirit Airlines

investorrelations@spirit.com

Dear Director Gabel,

I am writing to you today, ....

As an airline employee and academic resercher ...
If you are indeed a researcher, I would have expected you have no problem finding who are the current TalkBoard Members (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkboard-topics/1285605-2011-election-results.html) and locating their say on airline operations. Whoever you are accusing of not understanding what goes on inside the airline business is not serving our TB.

The 2011 Elections have just concluded.

Joining the board in order of votes:


goalie - 696
kokonutz - 560
nsx - 538
jackal - 419
RichMSN - 408



Continuing Talkboard members are:

bhatnasx
cholula
SkiAdcock
Spiff
Or maybe you know something that I don't know. Can you provide evidence of any of the above 9 TalkBoard Members who wrote to investor relations?

Enough.