Japan - First trip to Toyko

Hello all,
I am planning a trip to NRT from FLL at the end of June and would appreciate some advise. First off I am getting too old to spend 13+ hours in coach and through much research have found business class on Air Canada at a very reasonable fare, the only problem is a 14 hour lay-over in Canada... I have also found a similar fare on JAL in Premium Economy with a very short lay-over. Does anyone have an opinion on the differences in these two options? JAL's web-site seems to indicate a fairly high class of service in this offering, how is Air Canada's business class?
Also, would love some hotel suggestions in the 4 star, $300. per night range.
I am thinking that a hotel in the Ginza area would be a good base as my wife is
a "shopper". Thank you in advance, 2 years ago we traveled to Hong Kong and received invaluable advice on places to stay,eat and day-trip from the members of this site, which is why I won't proceed any further until you guys weight in!
Michael

Also, would love some hotel suggestions in the 4 star, $300. per night range. I am thinking that a hotel in the Ginza area would be a good base as my wife is a "shopper".

You may want to take a look at Japan Forum (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/japan-509/) first. This Tokyo sticky thread (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/japan/530019-japan-tokyo-beyond-master-thread.html) has lots of pointers.

I read that you are going to pay for the tickets. So you don't have enough miles to burn for this trip to Japan? I'll leave the airline comparisons comments to others for the moment being.

Can't help you with flights, since we didn't have the miles at the time and braved the 14 hours in coach from TPA!

As for hotels, we absolutely LOVED the Grand Pacific Le Daiba. We stayed 15 nights. Service was phenomenal (as it seems to be in most Japanese hotels), rooms were large, and everything was spotlessly clean. Several onsite restaurants, but the meals were as much as a night at the hotel!

The hotel is on the "island" of Le Daiba which involves taking a 5 minute monorail ride over the rainbow bridge. The Le Daiba area itself is very relaxed with numerous attractions (Toyota Museum) and three or four HUGE newer malls, as well as a large Ferris Wheel.

While the 5 minute monorail ride was not the most fun to do everyday, we loved the location overall, and would not hesitate to stay again. Looks like the current rates for June are about $140/nt.

Not sure if you have visited Tokyo before, but the best piece of advice that we got prior to our trip was to get a Suica (sp?) or Passmo card. Really takes much of the hassel out of public transit, and any remaining balance can be cashed out!

Jim

Can't help you with flights, since we didn't have the miles at the time and braved the 14 hours in coach from TPA!

As for hotels, we absolutely LOVED the Grand Pacific Le Daiba. We stayed 15 nights. Service was phenomenal (as it seems to be in most Japanese hotels), rooms were large, and everything was spotlessly clean. Several onsite restaurants, but the meals were as much as a night at the hotel!

The hotel is on the "island" of Le Daiba which involves taking a 5 minute monorail ride over the rainbow bridge. The Le Daiba area itself is very relaxed with numerous attractions (Toyota Museum) and three or four HUGE newer malls, as well as a large Ferris Wheel.

While the 5 minute monorail ride was not the most fun to do everyday, we loved the location overall, and would not hesitate to stay again. Looks like the current rates for June are about $140/nt.

Not sure if you have visited Tokyo before, but the best piece of advice that we got prior to our trip was to get a Suica (sp?) or Passmo card. Really takes much of the hassel out of public transit, and any remaining balance can be cashed out!

Jim
Thanks,Jim
This looks very nice for the price, I will put it on my"short list".

maybe four seasons chinzan-so?

Maybe the Palace Hotel if its renovations are finished.

I would fly AC J for two main reasons.

Fully flat seats in AC J are way more comfortable on a long haul flight that any variety of traditional seat (JL Y+). Soft product may be better with JAL being an asian carrier with typical asian carrier (excellent) service but YMMV.

AC's little publicized stopover program for business class and full fare Y pax. Link here. (http://www.aircanada.com/en/travelinfo/traveller/stopover/index.html) AC will pay for a hotel room for you for international connections over 6 hours. I would take that opportunity to spend some time in Canada's biggest city and see some other sights.

But then again, best schedule may prevail over all if time is precious.

Would love FS, but more than $300-400 a night...

I would fly AC J for two main reasons.

Fully flat seats in AC J are way more comfortable on a long haul flight that any variety of traditional seat (JL Y+). Soft product may be better with JAL being an asian carrier with typical asian carrier (excellent) service but YMMV.

AC's little publicized stopover program for business class and full fare Y pax. Link here. (http://www.aircanada.com/en/travelinfo/traveller/stopover/index.html) AC will pay for a hotel room for you for international connections over 6 hours. I would take that opportunity to spend some time in Canada's biggest city and see some other sights.

But then again, best schedule may prevail over all if time is precious.
I did not know about AC stop over program, that would make it a little more enticing.
Thanks for that...

I would fly AC J for two main reasons.

Fully flat seats in AC J are way more comfortable on a long haul flight that any variety of traditional seat (JL Y+). Soft product may be better with JAL being an asian carrier with typical asian carrier (excellent) service but YMMV.

What he said. Any modern J offering, especially a fully-flat-bed kind, is going to be a night-and-day improvement over Y+. On those long flights, being able to sleep comfortably for several hours makes all the difference.

Can't help you with flights, since we didn't have the miles at the time and braved the 14 hours in coach from TPA!

As for hotels, we absolutely LOVED the Grand Pacific Le Daiba. We stayed 15 nights. Service was phenomenal (as it seems to be in most Japanese hotels), rooms were large, and everything was spotlessly clean. Several onsite restaurants, but the meals were as much as a night at the hotel!

The hotel is on the "island" of Le Daiba which involves taking a 5 minute monorail ride over the rainbow bridge. The Le Daiba area itself is very relaxed with numerous attractions (Toyota Museum) and three or four HUGE newer malls, as well as a large Ferris Wheel.

While the 5 minute monorail ride was not the most fun to do everyday, we loved the location overall, and would not hesitate to stay again. Looks like the current rates for June are about $140/nt.

Not sure if you have visited Tokyo before, but the best piece of advice that we got prior to our trip was to get a Suica (sp?) or Passmo card. Really takes much of the hassel out of public transit, and any remaining balance can be cashed out!

Jim

Odaiba. I think this thread is better served in the Japan forum.

What he said. Any modern J offering, especially a fully-flat-bed kind, is going to be a night-and-day improvement over Y+. On those long flights, being able to sleep comfortably for several hours makes all the difference.
I guess that's what I thought to be the case.. Did not know if maybe JAL Y+ seats would be close enough in comfort to make up for the 14 hrs layover.

Let's move this thread to our dedicated forum on travel to Japan. Ocn Vw 1K, Moderator, TravelBuzz.

There are countless hotels in Tokyo, and if you don't need luxury but will settle for a plain but serviceable room, then the list is almost infinite.

Depending on what your wife wants to shop for, Ginza may or may not be the best place to stay.

I suggest getting a Tokyo city guidebook, figuring out which part of the city you want to stay in (although the excellent public transit system makes this less of an issue than in some cities), finding out which hotels in your preferred price range are there, and then going to the websites of the hotels on your short list to determine which one to go to.

If you want luxury, that's certainly available. If all you want is a place to lay your heads at night and take a shower in the morning, there are literally hundreds of clean and safe options available.

I guess that's what I thought to be the case.. Did not know if maybe JAL Y+ seats would be close enough in comfort to make up for the 14 hrs layover.
I've flown in Y+ on JAL and in Business class on AC.

There's no comparison.

JAL's Y+ seats just give you a bit of extra leg support. I was opped up on a LHR-NRT flight whilst I was pregnant and valued the extra support but there's no way I could have slept in those seats. Other benefit I remember was noise cancelling headsets.
I was in the front row of the Y+ cabin and those seats have no actual foot rests. Those behind had foot rests attached to the seats in front of them... I would have loved to have traded despite the very generous leg room for those on the front row. The more I remember, the more I recall that it wasn't quite as comfortable as I would have liked, even though it was an improvement on regular Y.

However, a 14 hour layover is a significant downside and unless I could make some use of the time I'm not sure it's worth it. Can't your wife do some shopping in Canada? With the yen exchange rates, it might be the cheapest outlet she'll find for her passion for retail therapy. If you can make your layover into a holiday feature then the AC option would look attractive. Unless you are rather wide you can sleep pretty well in these seats. I remember wishing my honeymoon London-Toronto flight was longer as I was arriving into Canada.

I've flown in Y+ on JAL and in Business class on AC.

There's no comparison.

JAL's Y+ seats just give you a bit of extra leg support. I was opped up on a LHR-NRT flight whilst I was pregnant and valued the extra support but there's no way I could have slept in those seats. Other benefit I remember was noise cancelling headsets.
I was in the front row of the Y+ cabin and those seats have no actual foot rests. Those behind had foot rests attached to the seats in front of them... I would have loved to have traded despite the very generous leg room for those on the front row. The more I remember, the more I recall that it wasn't quite as comfortable as I would have liked, even though it was an improvement on regular Y.

However, a 14 hour layover is a significant downside and unless I could make some use of the time I'm not sure it's worth it. Can't your wife do some shopping in Canada? With the yen exchange rates, it might be the cheapest outlet she'll find for her passion for retail therapy. If you can make your layover into a holiday feature then the AC option would look attractive. Unless you are rather wide you can sleep pretty well in these seats. I remember wishing my honeymoon London-Toronto flight was longer as I was arriving into Canada.
LapLap,
Thank you, thats what I was looking for, I think the AC option will be the best(only medium wide). We get into YYZ at 12am and our connection is at 2pm next day..We should be able to find a room near the airport and do some shopping or sightseeing the next day. Any suggestions on a hotel in Tokyo, near Ginza?

I would recommend a hotel in Shinjuku instead.
Look at the Keio Plaza or the Hyatt Regency;
I prefer the first one - it has some nice restaurants inside and the service is impecable. Splurge and get one of the Premier rooms
It is livelier and has more action at night.
It is a quick 15 minute subway ride to Ginza

With the exchange rate and the cost in Tokyo, most things in Japan are cheaper in the US.

Also, would love some hotel suggestions in the 4 star, $300. per night range.
I am thinking that a hotel in the Ginza area would be a good base as my wife is
a "shopper". Thank you in advance, 2 years ago we traveled to Hong Kong and received invaluable advice on places to stay,eat and day-trip from the members of this site, which is why I won't proceed any further until you guys weight in!
Michael

If you want to stick to the $300~/night range, IMO some of the best values would be the Hyatt Regency, Hilton, and Century Southern Tower. These hotels are in the Shinjuku area, where there are a great many department stores, including Takashimaya Times Square, Isetan, Odakyu, etc...

If you can increase the budget a bit, then the very best located hotel would be the Mandarin Oriental. It is right next to Takashimaya and Mitsukoshi in Nihombashi, and very close to Ginza as well. Even a standard room is spacious at 50 square meters, and will have impressive views. Booking through Amex FHR will get you breakfast, an upgrade, and other benefits at MO or any of the other FHR hotels in Tokyo.

You might also consider the Grand Hyatt in Roppongi Hills. Roppongi is also good for shopping, and it is easy to get around the city by subway.

Lot of good suggestions in this thread. My personal recommendations are:

1. If you are buying the tickets and want to fly C, AC is the best choice. Great seats in C and the best price. The only caveat is that it is a herringbone layout and you won't be able to sit side by side with your wife.

2. For the hotel, I would stay at the main wing at the Okura. It's old, the location is slightly inconvenient for public transporation, and the rooms are small, but a) you can get a decent rate, b) it has an elegant, quiet and timeless lobby, and c) the service is the best in Tokyo....by far. For many years, it was ranked as the best hotel in the world.

Lot of good suggestions in this thread. My personal recommendations are:

1. If you are buying the tickets and want to fly C, AC is the best choice. Great seats in C and the best price. The only caveat is that it is a herringbone layout and you won't be able to sit side by side with your wife.

2. For the hotel, I would stay at the main wing at the Okura. It's old, the location is slightly inconvenient for public transporation, and the rooms are small, but a) you can get a decent rate, b) it has an elegant, quiet and timeless lobby, and c) the service is the best in Tokyo....by far. For many years, it was ranked as the best hotel in the world.

And those years ended at least 20+ years ago. But as a result they often have to discount heavily. I would sort of view this as equivalent to staying at the Waldorf=Astoria in NYC: faded glory.

And those years ended at least 20+ years ago. But as a result they often have to discount heavily. I would sort of view this as equivalent to staying at the Waldorf=Astoria in NYC: faded glory.

This is definitely true about the hotel, but the restaurants are still very good. Instead of staying at the Okura, a much better idea would be to stay at the GH or R-C and go out for a teppanyaki dinner at the Okura's excellent restaurant Sazanka (http://www.hotelokura.co.jp/tokyo/en/restaurant/list/sazanka/).

Lot of good suggestions in this thread. My personal recommendations are:

1. If you are buying the tickets and want to fly C, AC is the best choice. Great seats in C and the best price. The only caveat is that it is a herringbone layout and you won't be able to sit side by side with your wife.

2. For the hotel, I would stay at the main wing at the Okura. It's old, the location is slightly inconvenient for public transporation, and the rooms are small, but a) you can get a decent rate, b) it has an elegant, quiet and timeless lobby, and c) the service is the best in Tokyo....by far. For many years, it was ranked as the best hotel in the world.
Thanks for the reply, I am buying the tickets and AC is by FAR the best rate for biz class.
Is the herringbone pattern of seating normal? Can you see or interact with your spouse at all or are you completely isolated?

Thanks for the reply, I am buying the tickets and AC is by FAR the best rate for biz class.
Is the herringbone pattern of seating normal? Can you see or interact with your spouse at all or are you completely isolated?
It's becoming more and more normal, it's the compromise made in order to make angled 180degree beds into fully flat ones in many carriers.

I'm afraid in the AC set up you'll barely be able to maintain eye contact with your partner and it's impossible to have a discreet conversation unless you get up and crouch next to them. It's a very unromantic way to travel.
Best to do all your wining and dining in the lounge and imagine that you're flying side by side in individual travel pods where you can sleep and catch up on movies and then chat about what you saw once you arrive at the airport and are queuing at customs and passport control. At least you'll be refreshed from the sleep and feel pleased to be able to interact with your partner again rather than feel as if you're fighting each other for space and getting more and more irritable with each passing hour of the journey.

As for hotels in the Ginza area...
$300 is about double my budget (I've been to Tokyo too often to have been able to afford to splurge on each visit).
I have been to a few of the higher end hotels but not made it to a genuine 5 star establishment.
Shinagawa is not the most happening location but it's proved itself time and time again as being extremely convenient as the location makes trips to Ginza just as convenient and easy (and inexpensive) as trips to Shinjuku and other prime locations in Tokyo.
The Grand Prince Hotel New Takanawa has rooms that were recently refurbished on the Superior floors. These particular rooms offer (IMHO) some of the best value accommodation in Tokyo. (I was able to compare them directly on one visit to the rooms of the Club Floor at the ANA Intercontinental and they stood up beautifully to that challenge). They aren't quite as nice as the rooms at The Strings IC but The Strings is nearly double the price.
I'm personally not willing to pay the premium needed to stay within Ginza when Ginza is about a 3,000yen taxi ride from Shinagawa (or 10 minutes and 150yen each on the Yamanote line + 10 minutes walking/waiting time)

This is definitely true about the hotel, but the restaurants are still very good. Instead of staying at the Okura, a much better idea would be to stay at the GH or R-C and go out for a teppanyaki dinner at the Okura's excellent restaurant Sazanka (http://www.hotelokura.co.jp/tokyo/en/restaurant/list/sazanka/).

I agree, but even though the rooms are not as nice as other hotels, a) the tranquility and elegance of the public spaces are much better than almost any other hotel, and b) the service is arguably the best of any hotel in the world.

The Grand Prince Hotel New Takanawa has rooms that were recently refurbished on the Superior floors. These particular rooms offer (IMHO) some of the best value accommodation in Tokyo. (I was able to compare them directly on one visit to the rooms of the Club Floor at the ANA Intercontinental and they stood up beautifully to that challenge). They aren't quite as nice as the rooms at The Strings IC but The Strings is nearly double the price.Just make sure you are looking at the right hotel. The Shinagawa Prince hotel complex contains a number of Prince hotels with VERY similar names.

Just make sure you are looking at the right hotel. The Shinagawa Prince hotel complex contains a number of Prince hotels with VERY similar names.
Absolutely right.

If you want to stick to the $300~/night range, IMO some of the best values would be the Hyatt Regency, Hilton, and Century Southern Tower. These hotels are in the Shinjuku area, where there are a great many department stores, including Takashimaya Times Square, Isetan, Odakyu, etc...

If you can increase the budget a bit, then the very best located hotel would be the Mandarin Oriental. It is right next to Takashimaya and Mitsukoshi in Nihombashi, and very close to Ginza as well. Even a standard room is spacious at 50 square meters, and will have impressive views. Booking through Amex FHR will get you breakfast, an upgrade, and other benefits at MO or any of the other FHR hotels in Tokyo.

You might also consider the Grand Hyatt in Roppongi Hills. Roppongi is also good for shopping, and it is easy to get around the city by subway.
After much research, we are going with the Peninsula. The rates for top hotels in Tokyo are much less than the rates in New York and even Hong Kong. Do you have advise for the best way to get to the hotel from NRT? The hotel car service is MUCH more expensive than in HKG. Thinking either limo bus or train, how difficult are these options and are there any other options I don't know about?

After much research, we are going with the Peninsula. The rates for top hotels in Tokyo are much less than the rates in New York and even Hong Kong. Do you have advise for the best way to get to the hotel from NRT? The hotel car service is MUCH more expensive than in HKG. Thinking either limo bus or train, how difficult are these options and are there any other options I don't know about?

I'm researching this very question about transportaion to the PEN.

You actually have several options:

You can take the N'EX (Narita Express) and if you buy it in combo with their Suica card offer you get a great price along with a starter Tokyo transporation stored value card. You would take this to Tokyo Station and take a cab from there inexpensively, or you can transfer to the metro which doesn't seem worth the effort, or if you aren't too badly loaded down you could walk in - hmmm - ~15 minutes??

You can take the Sky Train to Nippori and transfer to the JR Yamanote line to Yurakucko, from which Hibiya (which is the actual PEN subway station) is listed as a four minute walk. I've read that the Yamanote line is a major commuter line and will be crowded at peak hours.

This site is wonderful for travel planning:

http://www.tokyo-subway.net/english/index.html

You can also take the limousine bus with has a stop at the PEN, the travel times for this option as posted as the longest option and the buses not terribly frequent:

http://www.limousinebus.co.jp/en/platform_searches/index/2/64

I'm researching this very question about transportaion to the PEN.

You actually have several options:

You can take the N'EX (Narita Express) and if you buy it in combo with their Suica card offer you get a great price along with a starter Tokyo transporation stored value card. You would take this to Tokyo Station and take a cab from there inexpensively, or you can transfer to the metro which doesn't seem worth the effort, or if you aren't too badly loaded down you could walk in - hmmm - ~15 minutes??

You can take the Sky Train to Nippori and transfer to the JR Yamanote line to Yurakucko, from which Hibiya (which is the actual PEN subway station) is listed as a four minute walk. I've read that the Yamanote line is a major commuter line and will be crowded at peak hours.

This site is wonderful for travel planning:

http://www.tokyo-subway.net/english/index.html

You can also take the limousine bus with has a stop at the PEN, the travel times for this option as posted as the longest option and the buses not terribly frequent:

http://www.limousinebus.co.jp/en/platform_searches/index/2/64
Not quite as easy as jumping into a cab at JFK..

Not quite as easy as jumping into a cab at JFK..

But possibly easier than JFK to EWR!

Not quite as easy as jumping into a cab at JFK..

No, not with NRT being 60km (about 40 miles) outside Tokyo.

Travelers who haven't done their homework and have thoughtlessly jumped into a cab at NRT and asked to be taken to central Tokyo are one of the sources of the myths about Japan being impossibly expensive.

After much research, we are going with the Peninsula. The rates for top hotels in Tokyo are much less than the rates in New York and even Hong Kong. Do you have advise for the best way to get to the hotel from NRT? The hotel car service is MUCH more expensive than in HKG. Thinking either limo bus or train, how difficult are these options and are there any other options I don't know about?

We have and will be staying at FSM. Best option to there is the limo bus with the FSM meet and greet service at NRT (no way we'll be able to handle trains after our trip). Why don't you ask the hotel concierge what it recommends? Robyn

We have and will be staying at FSM. Best option to there is the limo bus with the FSM meet and greet service at NRT (no way we'll be able to handle trains after our trip). Why don't you ask the hotel concierge what it recommends? Robyn

No offense to the fine concierges at the Peninsula, but the information he'll get here in FT will be far more complete than what the concierge will come back with, which will be (a) take the hotel car, (b) take the limobus, here's the schedule, or (c) take the train and then a taxi, here's the schedule. With a cautionary note that you should consider them in that order, since Tokyo is sooo difficult to get around.

No offense to the fine concierges at the Peninsula, but the information he'll get here in FT will be far more complete than what the concierge will come back with, which will be (a) take the hotel car, (b) take the limobus, here's the schedule, or (c) take the train and then a taxi, here's the schedule. With a cautionary note that you should consider them in that order, since Tokyo is sooo difficult to get around.

IMO - that was one ^ in terms of FSM. The meet and greet service. Didn't cost much. And someone met you at arrival at NRT post immigration/customs - and got you heading to the hotel when you were dead on your feet after a super long journey. In our case - the limo bus - which had a stop about 2 blocks away from FSM - was the best option. A bellman met us at the bus stop and took us and our luggage to the hotel.

Of course - if our flight had been 2 hours instead of 2 days - the train might have been the best option.

Perhaps the person who posted the original question can post another question in the luxury hotel forum - and see what the best options are when it comes to the PEN in Tokyo (lots written about luxury hotels in Tokyo there). Robyn

After much research, we are going with the Peninsula. The rates for top hotels in Tokyo are much less than the rates in New York and even Hong Kong. Do you have advise for the best way to get to the hotel from NRT? The hotel car service is MUCH more expensive than in HKG. Thinking either limo bus or train, how difficult are these options and are there any other options I don't know about?

Will you be alert and awake or among the walking dead upon arrival? Train is ok if awake. I recommend the limo bus if you've just passed through 12+ time zones on a 12+ hour flight. Robyn

After much research, we are going with the Peninsula. The rates for top hotels in Tokyo are much less than the rates in New York and even Hong Kong. Do you have advise for the best way to get to the hotel from NRT? The hotel car service is MUCH more expensive than in HKG. Thinking either limo bus or train, how difficult are these options and are there any other options I don't know about?

I usually travel be car to/from NRT, but another good and much less expensive option if you have a manageable amount of luggage (i.e. a hand-carry and one rolling suitcase) is to take NEX to Tokyo Station transfer to Yamanote line one stop to Yurakucho and then walk (about 150 yards) from the Yurakucho Station from the Pen.

If you do your research you can get maps of the station which will show you which exits, how to transfer at Tokyo, etc.

Alternatively you can take a taxi from Tokyo station to the Pen.