Qatar Airways Privilege Club - Qatar confirms 787 launch on LHR route; hints at new business class

http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/Articles/2012/01/27/39411/qatar+poised+to+operate+dreamliner+from+heathrow.h tml

Qatar Airways aims to become the first carrier to operate the Boeing 787 from the UK after displaying the Dreamliner at the Farnborough Air Show in July.

Al Baker confirmed Qatar’s 787s will be configured with just two classes, saying: “I guarantee business class on Qatar will be more luxurious than any first class flying today.”

The airline will unveil new business and economy class seats designed for the 787 at German travel trade show ITB in Berlin in March. Al Baker said Qatar would “never” offer premium economy seats, insisting: “Our economy is premium compared to the economy on other airlines.”

The route was to be expected. But I somehow can't envisage too many award tickets being available on 787 operated services for the first few monthts, at least until the novelty has worn off.

Interesting comment from Mr. Al Baker regarding QR never offering a premium economy class service. That was emphasied by the recent decision to reconfigure some 777's, rather than declassify business class rows 5-7 and offer them as a premium economy product, something that other airlines with surplus capacity up front would have seriously considered.

Yes, shame we may not know for a while which flight they will use it on, as I am planning travel in August and it would be cool to be among the first in the UK to travel on the 787...

IMO, I never envisaged QR offering a premium economy, for exactly the reason Al Akbar mentioned... after all, a premium economy does kinda suggest that, er, regular economy just ain't that good...

But seriously, a business class better than any FIRST class? Now this, I will have to see...

But seriously, a business class better than any FIRST class? Now this, I will have to see...

Agreed. I wish that he would make a more credible statement -- I think that it's fair to claim that the two-class biz (e.g., B777) is the best business class flying today (though I haven't flown EY or WY, which seem impressive), and on par with many airlines' first -- than something so implausible.

Maybe a 1-2-1 seating like WY. ANA has 2-2-2 in C in their new 787s and most airlines also on their A330/340s.

Perhaps he categorizes suites as a different one. So QR C will be better than other's F but not suites?

Would be nice if they have one of the 787s in for the DOH - SIN - DPS route.

Qatar confirms 787 launch on LHR route; hints at new business class

I think you will find the B787 will be used on the Manchester QR41/42 flight first, before LHR.

It will run the flight 3 times weekly whilst the QR41/42 is 3 weekly, then, increase to daily when the MAN flights are put back to 2 times daily.

Staff at Manchester, including engineers, are being trained up as we speak for the September introduction.

I think you will find the B787 will be used on the Manchester QR41/42 flight first, before LHR.

It will run the flight 3 times weekly whilst the QR41/42 is 3 weekly, then, increase to daily when the MAN flights are put back to 2 times daily.

Staff at Manchester, including engineers, are being trained up as we speak for the September introduction.

That honestly would make no sense. The Heathrow route is their flagship route and that article confirms it. It would be quite believable if their second 787 was put on the Manchester route though...

That honestly would make no sense. The Heathrow route is their flagship route and that article confirms it. It would be quite believable if their second 787 was put on the Manchester route though...

Totally agree, just can't see that happening. However, its good to hear that Manchester is high on the list for 787 assignment, and I hope to sample it in early October.

For too long MAN has been QR's UK operations poor relation, and I thought it more likely to get hand-me down 777's displaced off other more prestigous routes.

Im expecting a Cathay Style Business class, as in my opinion that is the closest to a Business/First class seat out there at the moment. All the Staggered seating in other Business Class's are nice but Cathay is the one to beat.

The width of the 787 is between the 777 and an A330 if im not mistaken so that should be interesting too see what they can do with that.

Since the lounge opened in London this route will definately be on the flagship route. However, from the current ANA configuration of the 787 that they used on the NRT-FRA route, the capacity of this aircraft is significantly lower than the current A346 and 777.

That honestly would make no sense. The Heathrow route is their flagship route and that article confirms it. It would be quite believable if their second 787 was put on the Manchester route though...

Totally agree, just can't see that happening. However, its good to hear that Manchester is high on the list for 787 assignment, and I hope to sample it in early October.

Well, you two are in for a shock then, after all, it should come as no surprise that there is another airport in the UK that does well for airlines such as QR. Like I say, staff in Manchester being trained on B787 handling, and have been told first flight will be Wednesday 5th September on QR41/42 flight.

Announcement will follow soon.

Well, you two are in for a shock then, after all, it should come as no surprise that there is another airport in the UK that does well for airlines such as QR. Like I say, staff in Manchester being trained on B787 handling, and have been told first flight will be Wednesday 5th September on QR41/42 flight.

Announcement will follow soon.


Well, I don't necessarily disagree with that, but from the news article above, it seems to be hinted that the 787 may be put on the LHR route as early as late July or August...

Maybe it's both: launching LHR as it is a prestigious destination for QR, and then move it to MAN to make room for larger capacity aircraft serving LHR.

Well, you two are in for a shock then, after all, it should come as no surprise that there is another airport in the UK that does well for airlines such as QR. Like I say, staff in Manchester being trained on B787 handling, and have been told first flight will be Wednesday 5th September on QR41/42 flight.

Announcement will follow soon.

Both flights are currently wide open for award tickets in both cabins, but, if what you say is confirmed, I can't see that lasting for long.

A single 787 can easily serve Heathrow and Manchester on a rotating basis until more members of the fleet are delivered.

Announcement will follow soon. Will that be exactly 2 months today by any chance?

Announcement will follow soon. Will that be exactly 2 months today by any chance?

Wow, not cynical at all are you?

At the end of the day, Im just the messenger. Im failing to see why the fact a more economical, slightly smaller aircraft the the A330-300 (which is currently used) used to Manchester first is so hard to believe.

Maybe sometimes economics play a part ahead of 'prestige', or, is wanting to make a route slightly more profitable just crazy talk?

Regardless of serving MAN, they are going to be the first middle eastern carrier to use the B787 to LHR, so maybe they don't see the need to 'rush' in putting it on LHR?

Wow, not cynical at all are you?

At the end of the day, Im just the messenger. Im failing to see why the fact a more economical, slightly smaller aircraft the the A330-300 (which is currently used) used to Manchester first is so hard to believe.

Maybe sometimes economics play a part ahead of 'prestige', or, is wanting to make a route slightly more profitable just crazy talk?

Regardless of serving MAN, they are going to be the first middle eastern carrier to use the B787 to LHR, so maybe they don't see the need to 'rush' in putting it on LHR?

About 9 years ago, someone who I'd never previously met, said, after 15 minutes of talking with me, that I was the most cynical and laid back person that he had ever met. I do have a sense of humour, and can be quite witty at times.

Seriously, as one of QR regular Manchester passengers, I'd love to see 787's on the route, and am in a position to be able to have a try at booking on the first MAN flight to be operated by one.

Dreamliners on the Manchester's will make economic sense as the airline does have difficulty filling the C30 Y275 configuration 333's that currently ply the route. I've flown it umpteen times and most have been only moderately well loaded. The lower capacity, coupled with reduced operating costs, make it a very attractive and viable proposition.

About 9 years ago, someone who I'd never previously met, said, after 15 minutes of talking with me, that I was the most cynical and laid back person that he had ever met. I do have a sense of humour, and can be quite witty at times.

Seriously, as one of QR regular Manchester passengers, I'd love to see 787's on the route, and am in a position to be able to have a try at booking on the first MAN flight to be operated by one.

Dreamliners on the Manchester's will make economic sense as the airline does have difficulty filling the C30 Y275 configuration 333's that currently ply the route. I've flown it umpteen times and most have been only moderately well loaded. The lower capacity, coupled with reduced operating costs, make it a very attractive and viable proposition.

The 787s will have 22 J seats and 220 Y seats approx, so its a significant reduction in capacity.

The 787s will have 22 J seats and 220 Y seats approx, so its a significant reduction in capacity.

That's far more viable for the route, and a level that should enable a twice daily service to be economical.

Dreamliners on the Manchester's will make economic sense as the airline does have difficulty filling the C30 Y275 configuration 333's that currently ply the route

Whilst the Dreamliner is a better fit for the route, don't be fooled on how a route is performing based on what you can see. Qatar makes a ton of money on the bit you cannot see, the cargo. That is part of the reason an A319LR was a definate no-go for Manchester. (I know range is a slight issue too, but, it was mostly lack of cargo which sealed the decision)

Also, as reported elsewhere, loads on both QR flights have been in in the 80-90% avarage range for 2-3 months now, reflected in the fact the slightly larger A330-300 is used more than the A330-200 lately too.

[QUOTE=delta154;17935760]Whilst the Dreamliner is a better fit for the route, don't be fooled on how a route is performing based on what you can see. Qatar makes a ton of money on the bit you cannot see, the cargo. That is part of the reason an A319LR was a definate no-go for Manchester. (I know range is a slight issue too, but, it was mostly lack of cargo which sealed the decision)

Also, as reported elsewhere, loads on both QR flights have been in in the 80-90% avarage range for 2-3 months now, reflected in the fact the slightly larger A330-300 is used more than the A330-200 lately too.[/QUOTE

Fair point regarding the freight. I recently commented about the possibility that NEO 320's would probaly also reach Manchester, but at the expense of the 2 tonnes of additional freight that they will be able to lift if not operating to the limit of their range.

I'm flying Manchester-Doha in a few weeks time, and the aircraft type has just, today, been reduced from a C30 Y275 333 to a C24 Y236 332.

Is the passenger load factor data that you quote available publically?

Is the passenger load factor data that you quote available publically?

The data I have quoted is off the MAN internal system, which, at the end of the day has quotes for the total pax load that boarded/deboarded the aircraft on that particular day, eg QR 41 254 pax, QR42 205 pax.

Obviously that format does not give fare breakdown, or even class of travel, but, helps give a small indication of loads.

I do not see the system myself, its other people who quote the figures. They usually quote them for the majority of long haul flights ex MAN as well as others.
Whilst I do not see the info first hand, I have no reason to suspect the figures are incorrect.

There are the CAA official stats too http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=80&pagetype=88&pageid=3&sglid=3

and these are:

Dec 2011- 25,936 (209 pax per flight*)
Nov 2011- 20841 (173 pax per flight)
Oct 2011- 21963 (177 pax per flight)
Sep 2011- 22758 (189 pax per flight)

* pax per flight is average based on number of rotations per day (arrival and departure), so, 4x30/31 = 120/124 movements per month. Jan 2012 figures are not published yet (usually published around 14th day of next month)

Whilst these do show a lower load average, they are an average so some days will see loads of say, 90% but then another flight may only see a load of 60%.

Hope that helps.

The data I have quoted is off the MAN internal system, which, at the end of the day has quotes for the total pax load that boarded/deboarded the aircraft on that particular day, eg QR 41 254 pax, QR42 205 pax.

Obviously that format does not give fare breakdown, or even class of travel, but, helps give a small indication of loads.

I do not see the system myself, its other people who quote the figures. They usually quote them for the majority of long haul flights ex MAN as well as others.
Whilst I do not see the info first hand, I have no reason to suspect the figures are incorrect.

There are the CAA official stats too http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=80&pagetype=88&pageid=3&sglid=3

and these are:

Dec 2011- 25,936 (209 pax per flight*)
Nov 2011- 20841 (173 pax per flight)
Oct 2011- 21963 (177 pax per flight)
Sep 2011- 22758 (189 pax per flight)

* pax per flight is average based on number of rotations per day (arrival and departure), so, 4x30/31 = 120/124 movements per month. Jan 2012 figures are not published yet (usually published around 14th day of next month)

Whilst these do show a lower load average, they are an average so some days will see loads of say, 90% but then another flight may only see a load of 60%.

Hope that helps.

Yes, its interesting. Thanks for posting.

the biz seats in the 777 is nice. But i dont know if it can beat the seat in Oman Airs A330

I can see that the 787-8 is a significant reduction in capacity from the A333, but as long as they keep it as one of the double dailies, and keep 14flights a week for the whole year instead of winter 14 and summer 10, there wouldn't be much of a year-round reduction in capacity.
But I have to admit, after they introduced double dailies last year, I expected them to increase capacity by stepping one of them up to a 77L, rather than decrease it or keep it the same. Unusual of a growing gulf airline.

I think you will find the B787 will be used on the Manchester QR41/42 flight first, before LHR.

Staff at Manchester, including engineers, are being trained up as we speak for the September introduction.

This seems more decisive that LHR will be the first route:
Al Baker Interview (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/video-qatar-ceo-outlines-boeing-787-and-airbus-a380-plans-367783/)

It'll be great to see the new seats he seems so keen on... or even better, sit in them!

Only 42 business seats in the A380 though... that'll do wonders for availability! This also implies either an obscene First class, or very luxurious economy: at 517 seats, most A380s have more like 90 business-class seats!

New press release (http://www.qatarairways.com/english_global/press-release.page?pr_id=pressrelease_pressrelease_20120 304b), confirming LHR as the first long-haul destination for the Dreamliner. Looking forward for news from Berlin this week...

Teaser:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/64307_375694122449514_198317336853861_1382282_1425 123506_n.jpg

(via Qatar Airways Facebook Page (https://www.facebook.com/qatarairways))

already there: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=375777429107850&set=a.307084895977104.78757.198317336853861&type=1&theater

Look forward to more images and details.

Official press release: http://www.qatarairways.com/english_global/press-release.page?pr_id=pressrelease_pressrelease_20120 307

Very unimpressed that they went with 3-3-3 in economy rather than 2-4-2 like ANA did. :td:

"The slim-line seat design set at a pitch of 32 inches, together with a 16.9-inch width, offers more personal space than ever before."
Right, well, the A330 has a width of 17.5" (with 2 middle armrests), and the 777 18.9". So, please tell me, how will I be able to eat my in-flight meal if I'm sitting in the middle seat???

"Featuring one less seat per row than competitors on other wide body aircraft, the Economy seats promise to offer a totally different travel experience."
And this is called spin, aka stretching the truth. Clearly, the 777 or A380 are much wider aircraft...

For further comparison, even a US Airways 737 has a seat width of 17" :rolleyes:

Waiting for more details on business seats but I'm not so keen on herringbone formation, its not ideal if you're travelling with someone else...

Official press release: http://www.qatarairways.com/english_global/press-release.page?pr_id=pressrelease_pressrelease_20120 307

Very unimpressed that they went with 3-3-3 in economy rather than 2-4-2 like ANA did. :td:

"The slim-line seat design set at a pitch of 32 inches, together with a 16.9-inch width, offers more personal space than ever before."
Right, well, the A330 has a width of 17.5" (with 2 middle armrests), and the 777 18.9". So, please tell me, how will I be able to eat my in-flight meal if I'm sitting in the middle seat???

"Featuring one less seat per row than competitors on other wide body aircraft, the Economy seats promise to offer a totally different travel experience."
And this is called spin, aka stretching the truth. Clearly, the 777 or A380 are much wider aircraft...

For further comparison, even a US Airways 737 has a seat width of 17" :rolleyes:

Waiting for more details on business seats but I'm not so keen on herringbone formation, its not ideal if you're travelling with someone else...

I totally agree. I was not expecting such a horrible economy class on QR. Also, have you noticed how the business class seats cover half the window?!

Yea, I know, what's the point of a window seat without the view? Announcements regarding this unveiling have been around for about 2 years, and I was expecting Qatar to have redefined the business and economy experience with something totally unique; there is really nothing particularly special about what was unveiled today - in fact, I'm just plain disappointed!

How are you going to dim the windows in Business when the bottom half of the window and window electronic dimmer are completely covered?

Apparently it will be possible from the entertainment system...

Sorry for repeating in another thread, but admin just need to join both threads together.

I much prefer the ANA Y seat, the fact that the person in front cannot recline into you is a winner. Also prefer their 2-4-2 layout over the QR 3-3-3 layout. The Qatar 787 cabin is only 20cm's wider than the A330 and by fitting in an extra seat this is going to be tight.

In relation to the window being partially covered in business class i am pretty sure this is just an extra screen that you can pull up if you wish. If you look at the mock up in Berlin the plastic is shaped to take into account of the window. Maybe I am wrong, but I am pretty sure that the cover is only an extra to allow you to pull it up whilst using your laptop. I am sure this picture was taken in the hanger and is the way the unit is assembled before people start playing around with the gadgets on board.

Another concern is will the 777 now be revamped with these new economy seats that will then allow for 10 abreast. I think they may decide to move in this direction especially on the so called tourist routes.

They've posted detailed photos - they're looking good!

www.facebook.com/seatguru

The J seat looks significantly more cramped than the current 777 J seat, both at the shoulders and at the feet. I like the privacy and direct aisle access (I have flown similar on DL and CX) but it appears to offer a less comfortable sleeping experience. They are an improvement over the angled A333 seats, but I hope they don't put them in the 777.

^:D News received is that Qatar are going to bring their 787 in on Sunday and Monday! Flight numbers when it is in are below
- Sunday QTR041/042
- Monday QTR045/046