KLM Flying Dutchman - Shocked! Train leg cancelled, am being rebooked on flight and being charged!

I have a ticket for next Monday to XXX via Amsterdam, where the first leg is a train from Brussels to Amsterdam. Due to industrial action in Belgium the trains have been cancelled and KLM have to rebook me on a flight from Brussels airport (which means it wil cost me a taxi around €100!).

KLM have told me that although they won't charge for changing the ticket, they still will charge around €80, for the difference in booking classes!

IMO it's a cheek, I have a KLM ticket to travel from Brussels to XXX, if they have to rebook me, how on earth can they charge me, I don't know if legally they are allowed to (perhaps somebody could advise), but morraly IMO it's totally wrong!:mad:

I'd like to hear people's opinion, am I wrong? and what can I / should I do?

I will not be able to answer your questions. The EC 261/2004 (http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:32004R0261:EN:HTML) does not apply to your case - see Article 3 (4) This Regulation shall only apply to passengers transported by motorised fixed wing aircraft.

There is some EU legislation for train delays and cancellations, but I am not familiar with it. Certainly keep all your receipts.

If you were booked on a KL flight # on a train and the train is not operating then KL has to fly you to AMS w/o charging you anything. This is pretty outragous and I'd give them 1 chance by Email to fix this then dispute the charge.

Regardless of EU regulations, you have a contract of carriage that says you will be transported from A to C via B. The other contracting party will be in breach of contract, so they have to provide some alternative form of transport from A to C (either using other means of transport so you travel via B, or directly from A to C) or refund the money.

I suppose KLM think it's worth trying. If they do insist on the charge, let them charge your card, travel and then do a chargeback.

Regardless of EU regulations, you have a contract of carriage that says you will be transported from A to C via B. The other contracting party will be in breach of contract, so they have to provide some alternative form of transport from A to C (either using other means of transport so you travel via B, or directly from A to C) or refund the money.

I suppose KLM think it's worth trying. If they do insist on the charge, let them charge your card, travel and then do a chargeback.

KLM have finally backed down and rebooked me free of charge.

Does anybody think I shoud insist on compensation to cover my taxi costs between Brussels Midi train station to Brussels airport, as I'm travelling at rush hour, and with no public transport, trafic is bound to be chaos, meaning a long journey and hefty taxi fare.

KLM have finally backed down and rebooked me free of charge.

Good news, although that should have been a given from the beginning!

Does anybody think I shoud insist on compensation to cover my taxi costs between Brussels Midi train station to Brussels airport, as I'm travelling at rush hour, and with no public transport, trafic is bound to be chaos, meaning a long journey and hefty taxi fare.

Don't think you stand much of a chance with this one. BTW, the EUR100 taxi fare you estimated in your first post is grossly exaggerated. Also, since you'll be at the train station anyway, why not just take the train? It will save you both money and time (especially since you're saying it will be rush hour for road traffic in BRU).

Good news, although that should have been a given from the beginning!



Don't think you stand much of a chance with this one. BTW, the EUR100 taxi fare you estimated in your first post is grossly exaggerated. Also, since you'll be at the train station anyway, why not just take the train? It will save you both money and time (especially since you're saying it will be rush hour for road traffic in BRU).

There is a general strike going to take place in Belgium on Monday, meaning no trains and public transport, leaving no other choice than taking a taxi to the airport and liklyhood of being stuck for ages in traffic while the taxi meter ticks away.

Also, since you'll be at the train station anyway, why not just take the train? It will save you both money and time (especially since you're saying it will be rush hour for road traffic in BRU).

There's a General Strike in Belgium. There are no trains!


I'm a bit surprised that flights aren't affected.

There is a general strike going to take place in Belgium on Monday, meaning no trains and public transport, leaving no other choice than taking a taxi to the airport and liklyhood of being stuck for ages in traffic while the taxi meter ticks away.

Oh of course. My bad, sorry!

Still, I don't think KL would reimburse you for your taxi fare. Have fun getting to the airport :(

There's a General Strike in Belgium. There are no trains!


I'm a bit surprised that flights aren't affected.

Nothing is certain, I have to hope for the best.

Quote from the Brussels airport website:

The Belgian unions announce a national strike from January 29 (22.00hrs) till January 30 (22.00hrs) 2012. Brussels Airport tries to estimate the impact of this strike on the continuity of airport operations.

In total, 260 companies employ 20.000 staff at the airport. For several of these companies, it is too early to assess the influence of the announced strike on their operations.

With the information that is already available at this moment, it is expected that there will be some disruptions during this strike.

Transportation to and from the airport will be complicated by reduced availability of public transportation. From Sunday evening 10 pm to Monday evening 10 pm there will be no train traffic. Bus traffic may be severely disturbed. Passengers are advised to check the websites of the public transport companies in question. Road traffic may be hindered by road blocks. Persons who plan to come to the airport are advised to leave well in time and listen to the traffic updates.

As this situation unfolds in the coming days, passengers are advised to monitor update information on this website as well as the website of the airline they travel with for any information updates on their flights.

Brussels Airport closely monitors this situation and will update this communication as more information becomes available.

Oh of course. My bad, sorry!

Still, I don't think KL would reimburse you for your taxi fare. Have fun getting to the airport :(

Thanks, I might just have to leave about 2 hours for the journey (instead of 20 minutes)

Does anybody think I shoud insist on compensation to cover my taxi costs between Brussels Midi train station to Brussels airport, as I'm travelling at rush hour, and with no public transport, trafic is bound to be chaos, meaning a long journey and hefty taxi fare.

I understand your situation and it does stink, but I don't think you should be asking for compensation from KLM. Industrial action means it's not their fault; getting to the airport is your responsibility.

Look at it this way: if you were booked to fly LHR-xxx and LHR was for some reason closed, if you got rebooked out of LGW I don't think they would also cover the cost from LHR to LGW.

Would it make sense to go to the airport by train late Sunday afternoon and spend the night at an airport hotel? That way you would not need to worry about traffic jams going to the airport Monday morning.

Look at it this way: if you were booked to fly LHR-xxx and LHR was for some reason closed, if you got rebooked out of LGW I don't think they would also cover the cost from LHR to LGW.

When LHR was closed by fog one November Sunday afternoon last year and my BA flight to AMS was cancelled, I was rebooked (or rather, I went online and rebooked myself) on the first flight from LGW the next morning.

I submitted a receipt for the cost of a hotel and the National Express transfer from Heathrow to Gatwick, and was refunded both, without a peep.

To the OP - there are probably other ways of getting to the airport than by taxi (though, of course, given your circumstances taxi may be the only practical solution). You can always try and submit a claim after the fact, but without any guarantee that they will refund you. Bear that in mind before you automatically take the most expensive form of transfer.

This case can be compared to the situation in another thread about EWR/JFK. KLM has to take you from Brussels to AMS. Brussels Airport or train station is no different in their eyes. So I'm afraid that it will be very unlikely that KLM will compensate you.

Would it make sense to go to the airport by train late Sunday afternoon and spend the night at an airport hotel? That way you would not need to worry about traffic jams going to the airport Monday morning.

my flight is Monday evening

This case can be compared to the situation in another thread about EWR/JFK. KLM has to take you from Brussels to AMS. Brussels Airport or train station is no different in their eyes. So I'm afraid that it will be very unlikely that KLM will compensate you.

I understand the point made that klm still flew me from A-B, but on the other hand, my contract of carriage was from Brussels city centre, they couldn't supply that forcing me to take a different departure point, the costs caused by them not fulfilling their contract are perhaps entitled to compensation

To be honest i would be happy with some points, instead of the refund of all the transport costs.

If it's a KL ticket it should have KL conditions...right?

At which gates would my flight from BRU arrive at Schipol?

Depends. Either you will get a gate position in the B area or you will be bused to the Schengen arrivals area which is also close to passport control leading to the non-Schengen area.

Depends. Either you will get a gate position in the B area or you will be bused to the Schengen arrivals area which is also close to passport control leading to the non-Schengen area.

How far are both areas from the "E" gates?

Good news, although that should have been a given from the beginning!

KLM have finally backed down and rebooked me free of charge.I really like KL's attitude here:

We know it ain't right, but let's try anyway and see if we can get away with it.

Worst thing is that it probably paid off, and lots of affected pax coughed up the money.

Johan

How far are both areas from the "E" gates?

If you arrive at a B gate, you should expect about 15-20 minutes of walk, plus any queues at passport control. If you get bused to the terminal it's about half as much, again plus passport control.

Of course, if you feel like running you can make it in less time ;)

I really like KL's attitude here:

We know it ain't right, but let's try anyway and see if we can get away with it.

Worst thing is that it probably paid off, and lots of affected pax coughed up the money.



Same as with EU261/2004, innit?

Hope you manage to get a taxi as there will probably be quite a lot of pressure on the taxi companies...

Why not take a hotel near the airport? AFAIK there is a Sheraton on the airport and a couple of others nearby. That would save you a lot of aggravation!

Why not take a hotel near the airport? AFAIK there is a Sheraton on the airport and a couple of others nearby. That would save you a lot of aggravation!

The OP has already answered that the flight is on Monday evening (post #16). Presumably he has to be in Brussels (city) on Monday during the day, so taking an airport hotel would not make much sense at all.

My stress is starting to rise again!

Latest Belgian news report: There is a likely possibility that Brussels airport will be closed tomorrow due to striking staff, they will only make a final decision tomorrow morning.

If Brussles airport does close, I will have to take a taxi all the way to get the train from Rosendal (the nearest train station in the Netherlands to the Belgian border). In this case as KLM can't supply me a departure point from my planned city of departure, will I be entitled to a refund for my journey all the way to Rosendal?

My stress is starting to rise again!

Latest Belgian news report: There is a likely possibility that Brussels airport will be closed tomorrow due to striking staff, they will only make a final decision tomorrow morning.

If Brussles airport does close, I will have to take a taxi all the way to get the train from Rosendal (the nearest train station in the Netherlands to the Belgian border). In this case as KLM can't supply me a departure point from my planned city of departure, will I be entitled to a refund for my journey all the way to Rosendal?

Hmm, that makes it trickier. I suspect KLM will invoke force majeure if there is no way they can honour your BRU-AMS leg (either by train or plane) due to - in all fairness - factors outside their control. The way I see it they might offer you two options: (1) make your own way to AMS and they'll keep your AMS-XXX leg or (2) rebook you for another (the following?) day. Why not be proactive and try giving them a call now?

I think the situation is a bit difficult. If you were on KL-operated flights, KLM would have had to reroute you from booked place of origin to booked place of arrival in principle but where it becomes complex is that the segment which is problematic is operated by the Belgian railways so they should be the ones having to deal with the problem. It is also probably better that way because the strike would be an act outside of KLM's control but I'm not sure it is not outside of the Belgian Railways control. Anyway just hoping you end up having a troubleless trip at the end.

I think the situation is a bit difficult. If you were on KL-operated flights, KLM would have had to reroute you from booked place of origin to booked place of arrival in principle but where it becomes complex is that the segment which is problematic is operated by the Belgian railways so they should be the ones having to deal with the problem. It is also probably better that way because the strike would be an act outside of KLM's control but I'm not sure it is not outside of the Belgian Railways control. Anyway just hoping you end up having a troubleless trip at the end.

Well I think we are way past that in this case, as the OP has already been rebooked from the train (ZYR-AMS) to a KL-operated flight (BRU-AMS). Still, I don't see there is much they can do if all trains AND flights are cancelled.

If flights and trains are cancelled, I suspect that they will rebook you for the next day (and would have to provide/reimburse you overnight accommodation + meals in Brussels). They would not be under an obligation to pay for a taxi to Rosendal. As orbitmic suggested, speak to them and see what they are prepared to do.

If flights and trains are cancelled, I suspect that they will rebook you for the next day (and would have to provide/reimburse you overnight accommodation + meals in Brussels). They would not be under an obligation to pay for a taxi to Rosendal. As orbitmic suggested, speak to them and see what they are prepared to do.

Spoke to them they won't compensate for any taxi fees etc.
Anyhow there is still a good chance that my flight will operate, thanks for all your help, I'll keep you updated.

Don't know if you speak or read Dutch at all but the Flemish news outlets are reporting that air traffic is pretty much normal at BRU. CRL is closed.

http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws/binnenland/120130_NationaleStaking_Lucthavens

Here's the English link:

http://www.deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws.english/news/1.1208496

I'll keep you updated.

Keeping to my word.
Flight left BRU on time and arrived Schipol 30 minutes early, so everything was fine.

Hmm, that makes it trickier. I suspect KLM will invoke force majeure

Not only was I in the end rebooked for free to fly from Brussels Airport, they are also refunding my taxi from Brussels ciy centre to Brussels Airport.

Impressed!

Not only was I in the end rebooked for free to fly from Brussels Airport, they are also refunding my taxi from Brussels ciy centre to Brussels Airport.

Impressed!

^^^