TalkBoard Topics - Aeroflot +++ forum

In my continued quest to improve FT I start this thread with a new forum proposal^

An Aeroflot (SU) forum has been suggested and debated before;

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkboard-topics/1044155-aeroflot-forum.html

So why start a new thread?
- That thread is years old, and lots have happened with the program and airline since.
- We have a new TB, and what seems to be a more liberal acceptance of new forums.
- SUs size and importance justifies a new debate.
- Last time (quite recently actually) I revitalized a new forum thread I was bashed by OP/an evangelist for bumping an old thread (at times a TOS violation). That was EY, but my bump in any case led to its approval, and the forums seems rather succesful.
- And the fact that this proposal is slightly different- using the examples of India and Hawaii grouping a country/regions (smaller than the current continent groups).

I suggest a new forum in order of preference for 1) Airlines of Russia and former CIS, 2) Airlines of Russia or 3) Aeroflot.

Background:
I will mainly focus on SU, but there are numerous carriers in the region. S7 being the main competitour.
It was announced on 26 May 2009, that S7 Airlines would be joining the Oneworld alliance in 2010, sponsored by British Airways. S7 became a member of Oneworld on 15 November 2010, as the first Russian airline to join Oneworld. S7 Airlines has been Russia's fastest-growing airline and recently passed Aeroflot as Russia's largest domestic airline.

Aeroflot is the flag carrier and largest airline of the Russian Federation, based on passengers carried per year. Aeroflot operates domestic and international passenger services covering a network of 97 cities in 48 countries, mainly from its hub at Sheremetyevo International Airport.

Aeroflot has embarked on a fleet modernisation program, extensive route restructuring, and an image overhaul. The airline joined SkyTeam in April 2006, becoming the 10th member of the alliance

SU has their Aeroflot Bonus FFP.



As has been requested I use the TB formula;

(How the questions were answered last time http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/14279057-post48.html)

1. Will the forum be (or is it now) beneficial to FlyerTalk?

Absolutely. Aeroflot is a huge company in a major alliance, in a huge market. Further gathering Russian carriers in one forum, would help FTers with all travel related questions on the worlds largest country. Especially SU and S7 FFP should be of great interest to many on FT.

2. Will the new forum benefit a relationship with FlyerTalk? E.g., does the forum provide value for FT members, such as a friendly ear highly placed in the company

Clearly FFPs with easily accessible information will benefit from such a relation. Whether we can get lurkers is hard to say at such an early stage. This question however doesnt seem to be that important- for separating new forum candidates.

3. Is FT the best place to discuss this subject?

:confused: I take it FT is the best place to discuss any FFP? At least for english speakers.

4. Is there a passionate following? This is essential in order to provide dedicated expert helpers to get questions answered.

I would say there are passionate followers at least for SU. No metrics requirements are stated, and also hard for me as a general member to provide. But I think this forum is a very typical build it and they will come candidate- in lack of other venues- and with the huge potential.

5. Is a critical mass of posts and readers anticipated or existing? We need adequate traffic to keep everyone visiting frequently. One living forum is more valuable than two mostly dead ones.

See 4. And the idea to include more carriers.

6. Is this the best place on FlyerTalk for this subject? This is the classification issue. The answer depends primarily on achieving and maintaining critical mass. It also depends on whether or where the discussion might (or does) occur in the absence of the forum.

Yes, and I think this makes pefectly sense, as questions on Russian carriers are scattered all over. Other European carriers, OW, *A, within certain OW/*A carriers, and even geographical forums.

7. For proposals to split a forum, is the split expected to improve the signal to noise ratio? Why?"

N/A


Happy debating, motioning and voting:D

Seems like a good idea to me.

Seems like a good idea to me.

Which idea? ;)

3 are presented.

******

In 2011, there were about 50 or so threads with the name "Aeroflot" in the title. Out of those 50 or so threads, about 37 of them could feasibly belong in it's own Aeroflot forum - the rest were properly placed in Coupon Connection, Mileage Run, Trip Reports, and Delta Skymiles (questions about using DL miles for Aeroflot).

37 threads in 1 year is pretty dismal.

I don't personally have the "If you build it, they will come" philosophy that others have - I have the "Yep, I see the demand for it, it's there, let's build it" philosophy...

So, I just don't see it at this time...that's not to say that it won't ever get there, but for now, I just don't see Aeroflot with its own forum.

****

For an "Airlines of Russia/Former CIS" - it think that's covered in the "Other European Frequent Flyer Programs" (and yes, I realize that Russia is in Europe & Asia, but FTers seem to predominatly post in the Other European FFP forum, not the Other Asian FFP forum).

I think an "Airlines of Russia" forum would be more appropriate - the demand for a forum for Aeroflot, S7, and Transaero put together would probably make the forum more viable than a standalone Aeroflot forum.

I suggest a new forum in order of preference for 1) Airlines of Russia and former CIS, 2) Airlines of Russia or 3) Aeroflot.

To make it clear, "Airlines of Russia and former CIS" is the main proposal.

For an "Airlines of Russia/Former CIS" - it think that's covered in the "Other European Frequent Flyer Programs" (and yes, I realize that Russia is in Europe & Asia, but FTers seem to predominatly post in the Other European FFP forum, not the Other Asian FFP forum).

S7 is based in the Asian part. Which in itself is a solid argument for merging into one forum, instead of remaining confusion.

I think an "Airlines of Russia" forum would be more appropriate - the demand for a forum for Aeroflot, S7, and Transaero put together would probably make the forum more viable than a standalone Aeroflot forum.

^ yep, thats the idea.

If I find time, and find out how I might dig up some numbers. Hopefully others can chip in. But to opposer of the forum, please let me know excaclty what statistics you want?

In 2011, there were about 50 or so threads with the name "Aeroflot" in the title. Out of those 50 or so threads, about 37 of them could feasibly belong in it's own Aeroflot forum - the rest were properly placed in Coupon Connection, Mileage Run, Trip Reports, and Delta Skymiles (questions about using DL miles for Aeroflot).

37 threads in 1 year is pretty dismal.


Instead of morning coffee I did a quick search. Which clearly reveals these numbers are misleading- based on my main proposal.

Some of the threads you mention do indeed belong in other forums, but Im pretty sure MR deals and TRs would also gain traction in SU+ forum.

In any case I also made the same search for "SU", and that added another 25 hits for 2011. 2011 searches for S7 or Siberia(n airlines) added another 25+, and Transaero or UN another 10-15.

We are easily talking 100+ threads for these 3 airlines alone. And then we add the remaining smaller airlines. When we include threads from the last few years this forum will be easily 200-300 just off from start if not more.

I also took a closer look on what forums Aeroflot threads are put in, about 15 different- even deducting CC, TR, TB etc you are still at roughly 10 forums with scattered info. Do the same for the other searches like "SU", "S7" etc, and you will find the number of forums for this scattered info increasing further and becoming quite high.

This should all be in one forum^

We are talking user friendliness here, and the ability to attract more users.

We are easily talking 100+ threads for these 3 airlines alone. And then we add the remaining smaller airlines. When we include threads from the last few years this forum will be easily 200-300 just off from start if not more.

I also took a closer look on what forums Aeroflot threads are put in, about 15 different- even deducting CC, TR, TB etc you are still at roughly 10 forums with scattered info. Do the same for the other searches like "SU", "S7" etc, and you will find the number of forums for this scattered info increasing further and becoming quite high.

This should all be in one forum^

We are talking user friendliness here, and the ability to attract more users.

I agree, and throw in the ones with the two Ukrainian airlines (and even the one Belorussian!), and you are talking about some respectable numbers. Therefore I support "Airlines of Russia and CIS". (Note that CIS still exists, so "Airlines of Russia and former CIS" is not really realistic. Saying "Airlines of Russia and former Soviet Union" could extend it to the Baltic countries, and those are now mainly, and happily, in the SAS and Other European forums.)

Instead of morning coffee I did a quick search. Which clearly reveals these numbers are misleading- based on my main proposal.

Some of the threads you mention do indeed belong in other forums, but Im pretty sure MR deals and TRs would also gain traction in SU+ forum.

In any case I also made the same search for "SU", and that added another 25 hits for 2011. 2011 searches for S7 or Siberia(n airlines) added another 25+, and Transaero or UN another 10-15.

We are easily talking 100+ threads for these 3 airlines alone. And then we add the remaining smaller airlines. When we include threads from the last few years this forum will be easily 200-300 just off from start if not more.

I also took a closer look on what forums Aeroflot threads are put in, about 15 different- even deducting CC, TR, TB etc you are still at roughly 10 forums with scattered info. Do the same for the other searches like "SU", "S7" etc, and you will find the number of forums for this scattered info increasing further and becoming quite high.

This should all be in one forum^

We are talking user friendliness here, and the ability to attract more users.

Fair enough - but I was just commenting on "Aeroflot" in the thread titles for an Aeroflot-specific forum.

For a general "Airlines of Russia/CIS" forum, there may be more demand - which, if this thread flushes out & provest that demand, I'd be happy to support. (and FWIW, starting this afternoon, I'll have very limited FT access til Monday, so if I don't respond over the weekend, that's why).

I agree, and throw in the ones with the two Ukrainian airlines (and even the one Belorussian!), and you are talking about some respectable numbers. Therefore I support "Airlines of Russia and CIS". (Note that CIS still exists, so "Airlines of Russia and former CIS" is not really realistic. Saying "Airlines of Russia and former Soviet Union" could extend it to the Baltic countries, and those are now mainly, and happily, in the SAS and Other European forums.)

My main proposal certainly needs input for clarity of wording^

Idea is former Soviet Union. Baltic carriers possibly being excluded. I see them best fit included, but open to ideas.

AirBaltic (BT) previously had strong links with SAS, which owned 47.2% of the airline until January 2009. It operates frequent flights to SAS hubs in Copenhagen, Oslo and Stockholm. The airline formerly used the SAS EuroBonus frequent flyer programme, but now has its own: BalticMiles. Some products and services are still shared with SAS, including coordinated timetabling and shared airport lounges. AirBaltic is not a member of any airline alliance.

With BT posts divided between OEFFP and SK it looks better to gather the knowledge in a proper place, a new Aeroflot++ forum.

Which idea? ;)

3 are presented.



I took the suggestion to be for an Airlines of Russia forum.

I took the suggestion to be for an Airlines of Russia forum.

Me too.

Cheers.

I agree that there is a definite need for an Airlines of the FSU forum. Most of the people on here commenting on Russia also have quite a bit of experience in the other countries of the region and lots of other airlines (Air Moldova, Aerosvit, Xena, AZAL, Air Astana, Vladivostokavia) would be more logically located in that space than in either Europe or Asia.

I've brought this up for discussion in the private TB forum.

Cheers.

I took the suggestion to be for an Airlines of Russia forum.

I agree with this.

I think Airlines of Russia just sounds better. But all those little CIS carriers do need a place somewhere. Where do you look for info on, say, Armavia (as long as it's stil flying)? In Other European FFs? Other Asian FFs?

I agree with this.

Sounds more realistic;)

To the proposed motion is:

The TalkBoard recommends the creation of an Airlines of Russia forum.

Correct?

To the proposed motion is:

The TalkBoard recommends the creation of an Airlines of Russia forum.

Correct?

Thats the easiest way of saying it. I think a sticky could announce including the former Soviet union states in central asia + europe.

Thats the easiest way of saying it. I think a sticky could announce including the former Soviet union states in central asia + europe.

That would probably be in the forum description I'm thinking?

Cheers.

That would probably be in the forum description I'm thinking?

Cheers.

You are right. Just like India and Hawaii@:-)

You are right. Just like India and Hawaii@:-)

Airlines of India says:


Airlines of India
Air India, Jet Airways and other Indian-based airlines



How about:

Airlines of Russia
Aeroflot, S7 and other airlines based in the former Soviet Union countries

Airlines of India says:


Airlines of India
Air India, Jet Airways and other Indian-based airlines



How about:

Airlines of Russia
Aeroflot, S7 and other airlines based in the former Soviet Union countries

Sounds good to me, except we should probably change from countries to republics.

Sounds good to me, except we should probably change from countries to republics.

Gotcha. I thought it sounded funny.

There's no cultural or other sorts of issues/problems/in-sensitivities with referring to those republics thusly, is there? Is this how the republics refer to themselves!?

Sounds good to me, except we should probably change from countries to republics.And works for me as well (with the change ;))

Gotcha. I thought it sounded funny.

There's no cultural or other sorts of issues/problems/in-sensitivities with referring to those republics thusly, is there? Is this how the republics refer to themselves!?

Thats fine to the best of my memory from school:D

Natives might advise.

i am sorry to throw a stick in this wheel - I do support he idea overall - but indeed many Ukrainians might take if not offense but a stand against being called "other Russia" :-)
Same goes for Baltics - except 100 times stronger.
Georgians may actually get offended.
Even the most loyal - Belorussians dont like when their national identify is mixed.

how about "Airlines of post-USSR space" or ex-USSR?

i am sorry to throw a stick in this wheel - I do support he idea overall - but indeed many Ukrainians might take if not offense but a stand against being called "other Russia" :-)
Same goes for Baltics - except 100 times stronger.
Georgians may actually get offended.
Even the most loyal - Belorussians dont like when their national identify is mixed.

how about "Airlines of post-USSR space" or ex-USSR?

Yeah, I've been slow to move on this due to my concern that this might be the case.

So....more input desired.

Yeah, I've been slow to move on this due to my concern that this might be the case.

So....more input desired.

Where are most of the Airlines of Russia, countries, republics, etc, threads currently going? Maybe start a thread in that forum giving folk a heads up that this is being considered, as not everyone knows about or goes to TB. Provide a link to this thread & ask that their input be posted here. Might give you the additional input you're seeking.

Cheers.

Where are most of the Airlines of Russia, countries, republics, etc, threads currently going? Maybe start a thread in that forum giving folk a heads up that this is being considered, as not everyone knows about or goes to TB. Provide a link to this thread & ask that their input be posted here. Might give you the additional input you're seeking.

Cheers.

Great idea. I'll put a post in the other airlines of Europe thread.

Create individual sections for each.

Not a combined one. Can't see what the issue is with doing this, will encourage more content in each area and enrich FT.

Russian Airlines Forum should be seperated from other central Asian (former USSR) nations. It's confusing where one should ask about Air Astana or Air Azerbijan for example.

Russian Airlines Forum should be seperated from other central Asian (former USSR) nations. It's confusing where one should ask about Air Astana or Air Azerbijan for example.

I dont see any confusion, if you specifically include former USSR (=incl the asian republics). If they despite clear wording are posted in wrong forum, I assume the mods will kindly move.

Also these countries are still rather close to Russia in all aspects- to Asia not so much. I would say this a very natural grouping.

Also I believe it will benefitial for all the minor airlines in this group to be included, as SU posters would be able to help on many subjects.

Create individual sections for each.

Not a combined one. Can't see what the issue is with doing this, will encourage more content in each area and enrich FT.

If you're suggesting a sub-forum for every airline that might fall under the parent forum, I think we risk segmenting so much that none of the individual ones will get much traffic/questions/input. We generally consider new individual airline forums when they are a very large % of a main forum and/or are entering into one of the main alliances & traffic/questions/input.

Cheers

"Aeroflot and other CIS Airlines" Forum. давай.

You have the same problem as a lot of airlines. How to get the volume in a segmented environment?:p

Thats the easiest way of saying it. I think a sticky could announce including the former Soviet union states in central asia + europe.
The major issue for several countries is that this common past should never occur again. However to use FSU for current daily business may be interpreted that we are still part of Russia or you don't mind if we become again one day. Which is not your idea. To put it in a funny way: I wouldn't propose a hockey forum "Canada and other North American countries".

"Aeroflot and other CIS Airlines" Forum. давай.
Maybe this could work best to provide a wider basement, although I think Ukraine is not an official CIS member.

This is not a political forum. Its a travel forum. We need to group airlines depending on where questions are most likely to be answered, and based on traffic. This is purely pragmatic. On a sports forum it would be perfectly ok to group Canadian and US hockey teams together, if the traffic suggested so.

All the airlines in question share huge customer bases of Russian speaking customers able to help out.

Put Egypt in Africa or Middle East, and Turkey in Europe or Asia based on FT travel related reasons.

Typically the very few that care about nationalistic reasons are the mosts vocal. I dont see this as a problem.

"Aeroflot and other CIS Airlines" Forum. давай.
AGREE!

The major issue for several countries is that this common past should never occur again. However to use FSU for current daily business may be interpreted that we are still part of Russia or you don't mind if we become again one day.

You vill become members of our Union of Forums.
And you vill be happy.

You vill become members of our Union of Forums.
And you vill be happy.

:D

Main idea was:

I suggest a new forum in order of preference for 1) Airlines of Russia and former CIS, 2) Airlines of Russia or 3) Aeroflot.


Main background:

Instead of morning coffee I did a quick search. Which clearly reveals these numbers are misleading- based on my main proposal.

Some of the threads you mention do indeed belong in other forums, but Im pretty sure MR deals and TRs would also gain traction in SU+ forum.

In any case I also made the same search for "SU", and that added another 25 hits for 2011. 2011 searches for S7 or Siberia(n airlines) added another 25+, and Transaero or UN another 10-15.

We are easily talking 100+ threads for these 3 airlines alone. And then we add the remaining smaller airlines. When we include threads from the last few years this forum will be easily 200-300 just off from start if not more.

I also took a closer look on what forums Aeroflot threads are put in, about 15 different- even deducting CC, TR, TB etc you are still at roughly 10 forums with scattered info. Do the same for the other searches like "SU", "S7" etc, and you will find the number of forums for this scattered info increasing further and becoming quite high.

This should all be in one forum^

We are talking user friendliness here, and the ability to attract more users.

Im a bit surprised that this proposal hasnt gotten more attention, especially looking at the mentioned posting volume/need- and in particular seeing previous support on a different thread. May I assume that the lack of such playground have contributed in driving those posters even away from FT?

Anyhow, its been a bit problematic as I offered 3 options, and wording is clearly debatable.

I will suggest going for my initial option 1 with clarified wording. In real words that means airlines based on the territory of any country which was part of fomer Soviet union. Then some comments on others objections etc;

I support "Airlines of Russia and CIS". (Note that CIS still exists, so "Airlines of Russia and former CIS" is not really realistic. Saying "Airlines of Russia and former Soviet Union" could extend it to the Baltic countries.....

My initial "former CIS" is scrapped, as its of course existing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_of_Independent_States
As some of the former Soviet Union (FSU) countries never bacame part of CIS, and others have left and/or had unclear relations the "Russia and CIS" is not good enough.

"Russia and former Soviet Union" is good. Only "Russia" is the compromise if no extensions can be agreed upon. Even then many are likely to post there on FSU carriers.

See also;

I agree that there is a definite need for an Airlines of the FSU forum. Most of the people on here commenting on Russia also have quite a bit of experience in the other countries of the region and lots of other airlines (Air Moldova, Aerosvit, Xena, AZAL, Air Astana, Vladivostokavia) would be more logically located in that space than in either Europe or Asia.

I think Airlines of Russia just sounds better. But all those little CIS carriers do need a place somewhere. Where do you look for info on, say, Armavia (as long as it's stil flying)? In Other European FFs? Other Asian FFs?

Excactly. Sounds good but some are opposed to be labelled under "Russia". The correct former Soviet Union however, does have some horror of the past built in.

To the proposed motion is:

The TalkBoard recommends the creation of an Airlines of Russia forum.

Correct?

Thats the easiest way of saying it. I think a sticky could announce including the former Soviet union states in central asia + europe.

That would probably be in the forum description I'm thinking?

Thats the way, if we wont to use Russia or FSU only in forum title.

How about:
Airlines of Russia
Aeroflot, S7 and other airlines based in the former Soviet Union countries


Sounds good to me, except we should probably change from countries to republics.

Gotcha. I thought it sounded funny.

There's no cultural or other sorts of issues/problems/in-sensitivities with referring to those republics thusly, is there? Is this how the republics refer to themselves!?

i am sorry to throw a stick in this wheel - I do support he idea overall - but indeed many Ukrainians might take if not offense but a stand against being called "other Russia" :-)
Same goes for Baltics - except 100 times stronger.
Georgians may actually get offended.
Even the most loyal - Belorussians dont like when their national identify is mixed.

how about "Airlines of post-USSR space" or ex-USSR?

USSR might be better than former Soviet Union, but then it might have smell of the past in the word. However its probably easier to recognize Soviet Union intuitively?

To conclude this, and get it up for voting all inputs considered I suggest the following:
"Airlines of Russia and ex-USSR"
Wont really need anything in description.

Lets get going- eh flying:D^

May I assume that the lack of such playground have contributed in driving those posters even away from FT?

To conclude this, and get it up for voting all inputs considered I suggest the following: "Airlines of Russia and ex-USSR" Wont really need anything in description. Lets get going- eh flying:D^

Assume all you want, although my guess is your assumption is wrong given that the thread kokonutz started in the Other European Airlines forum has 237 views. My further guess is that drew a few people to this thread & a few suggestions on verbiage.

I've bumped that thread up & specifically asked for input re: naming the forum. Hopefully we'll see a few more weigh in on your latest suggestion re: name in the next few days.

BTW - I think someone in '10 did a better job than you :p :D (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/14279057-post48.html) in doing the profile/questions, but between his & yours, it adds up.

Cheers.

I'll clap for any postUSSR airline forum that is created here, but of course only after it has safely landed.:p

Assume all you want, although my guess is your assumption is wrong given that the thread kokonutz started in the Other European Airlines forum has 237 views.

There can be multiple reasons why people leave FT. Unfriendly mods, or even unfriendly TBers- or as I presented as a part-reason, not having the forums one would like to contribute on. Could be as simple as new job, family and lots of things. I just observe that a list of close to (IIRC) 10 posters from the couple of years old thread, does not seem to be active anymore. SO if you guess my assumption is wrong you have probably either seen those posters, or have better knowledge on why they choose not to contribute. Reasons can be important to improve something, but Im merely posting the facts.
1. The most skilled posters as referenced previously in this area are lacking.
2. The statistics, increased volume, I have provided clearly justifies the need for the forum.


BTW - I think someone in '10 did a better job than you :p :D (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/14279057-post48.html) in doing the profile/questions, but between his & yours, it adds up.

:confused: So much for doing what should be TBs job:td: Or if TB is too lazy, at least the communitys job.

Your comment is NOT appreciated:td: Pretty lame actually. Also let me repeat if you missed it, this is a totally different proposal. See post#1 on both threads.

:confused: So much for doing what should be TBs job:td: Or if TB is too lazy, at least the communitys job.

You just called out probably the hardest-working, least-lazy, most-engaged TalkBoard member that the TalkBoard has seen in the last four years.

You just called out probably the hardest-working, least-lazy, most-engaged TalkBoard member that the TalkBoard has seen in the last four years.

Had an idea of such, and ^ to that. Still doesnt justify her patronizing totally unneeded comment:td:

"Aeroflot and other CIS Airlines" Forum. давай.

Agree!

Had an idea of such, and ^ to that. Still doesnt justify her patronizing totally unneeded comment:td:

It wasn't meant to be; sorry you took it that way. Guess you missed the :p :D after my comment, which was meant to be kidding.

Now - back on-topic re: trying to sort out the name.

Cheers.

I have tried to PM some of the SU veterans from previous years, but it seems several basically left FT.

But also its better to have a forum with a non perfect name, than wait much longer to hopefully find a name that still is not perfect. A name can also be changed when more users start frequenting the forum.

I think this is an excellent idea. I think the term "Former USSR" is better than "CIS" as it better explains which airlines (I think) bel:)ng. Perhaps additional discussion of which airlines belong would be good? That would likely drive the description. I envision the forum covering all of the former-Soviet republics so I think a title such as the following would be good:

Aeroflot, S7, and the airlines of the former USSR

If we decide to include all fmr ussr airlines it would make sense to have a sticky and list them all so anyone searching would be able to find this forum.

As for early comments on limited posts - first many use SU instead of aeroflot, second often people post in partner forums (su in skyteam, transaero in bd and so on) plus often people give up without finding an appropriate forum. So yes we definitely need airlines of russia forum. I think the dominating majority will be russia based given two major alliance members with worldwide presence and a bunch of unaffiliated ones.
So i wouldn' worry too much about how we define the rest - if we really want to add them from the beginning "and former cis" would be my call but this always be adjusted later. Dont overthink this.

S:confused: would "Airlines of Russia and the former USSR/Soviet Union" (pick one of those) be acceptable?

S:confused: would "Airlines of Russia and the former USSR/Soviet Union" (pick one of those) be acceptable?

Fine by me


(Although then we'll have to include Estonian Air and Air Baltic - not sure if their patrons will appreciate)

This is not a political forum. Its a travel forum. We need to group airlines depending on where questions are most likely to be answered, and based on traffic. This is purely pragmatic.


(Although then we'll have to include Estonian Air and Air Baltic - not sure if their patrons will appreciate)

Politics aside, from the practical point of view, including the airlines of the Baltic States in the 'Former SU' forum might not be such a luminous idea. The present day countries strongly identify themselves with Western Europe (they are part of the EU). At least to an European reader, looking for them at a 'Russia etc. airlines' forum might not even cross one's mind. Soviet Union has not existed for 20 years, and there's a young generation among which many probably don't even know that Baltics were once part of the SU (if they know what the SU was in the first place...) [Perhaps that's the reason nobody has commented on this before; it might not have occurred to a person interested in OV or BT that this proposal could concern them.]

I have tried to PM some of the SU veterans from previous years, but it seems several basically left FT.

Hope getting a PM from you doesn't peg me as a veteran, does it (what does FT policy says on ageism, btw? :) )

Frankly, I am not quite convinced creating a new geography would make any good to FT (sorry, travelkid). I would expect a lot of confusion as few now remember Romania and Mongolia have never been part of the USSR while Moldova and Tajikistan were. Take my word for it, you will see couple of Tarom and LOT discussions landing in the new forum and Aerosvit and Air Moldova in "Other European".

I could see a value in dedicated airline forum, but why the likes of "Airlines of India" is beyond me, sorry.

Politics aside, from the practical point of view, including the airlines of the Baltic States in the 'Former SU' forum might not be such a luminous idea. The present day countries strongly identify themselves with Western Europe (they are part of the EU). At least an European reader looking for them at a 'Russia etc. airlines' forum might not even cross one's mind. Soviet Union has not existed for 20 years, and there's a young generation among which many probably don't even know that Baltics were once part of the SU (if they know what the SU was in the first place...) [Perhaps that's the reason nobody has commented on this before; it might not have occurred to a person interested in OV or BT that this proposal could concern them.]

As there is no forum for other western Europe carriers, we are left with leaving Baltic carriers as it is now (Other European), or include it in Russia+, whatever the wording.

There are huge Russian minorities in all the Baltic countries, and lots of trade. Those carriers should be placed where questions are most likely to be answered. Im pretty certain that will be with Russia.

But how about acknowledging the Baltic states by saying "airlines of Russia and ex-USSR incl the Baltic".

Alternatively adress this in the description.

Frankly, I am not quite convinced creating a new geography would make any good to FT (sorry, travelkid). I would expect a lot of confusion as few now remember Romania and Mongolia have never been part of the USSR while Moldova and Tajikistan were. Take my word for it, you will see couple of Tarom and LOT discussions landing in the new forum and Aerosvit and Air Moldova in "Other European".

There will be some confusion, as is the norm on all FT forums. Point is to decrease the confusion, and let the mods deal with whatever confusion is left@:-)

Politics aside, from the practical point of view, including the airlines of the Baltic States in the 'Former SU' forum might not be such a luminous idea. The present day countries strongly identify themselves with Western Europe (they are part of the EU). At least to an European reader, looking for them at a 'Russia etc. airlines' forum might not even cross one's mind. Soviet Union has not existed for 20 years, and there's a young generation among which many probably don't even know that Baltics were once part of the SU (if they know what the SU was in the first place...) [Perhaps that's the reason nobody has commented on this before; it might not have occurred to a person interested in OV or BT that this proposal could concern them.]T:) be honest, I was wondering this as well, particularly that the SU has been gone for a long time. I'm glad someone else brought that up. Perhaps "Airlines of Russia" would be the best, leaving the issue of non-Russian, but related airlines to be sorted out ad-hoc.

There are huge Russian minorities in all the Baltic countries, and lots of trade. Those carriers should be placed where questions are most likely to be answered. Im pretty certain that will be with Russia.


I cannot say I'd have any better insight on this than you, but I have great difficulty seeing how this would be true. Just look at the actual trade statistics (only for Lithuania could one say that Russia is a particularly important partner compared to eg the other Baltic States, Germany, Sweden, and Finland), and the route networks of AirBaltic and Estonian Air.

And my real point was that making geographical fora based on historical rather than present day boarders is a slippery slope... Shall we also propose dividing the "Other European" into "Airlines of the former Ottoman Empire" and "Airlines of the former Austria-Hungary"? I'd personally find that highly entertaining, but I doubt this would help the general public to find the right forum...

I agree, using historical terms might look awkward.

Lets settle for the easy; airlines of Russia. That will mean Aeroflot, S7 and Transaero, which will give the most volume.

Leave it to the posters/market to decide where they want to go with the others (1. other European, 2. other Asian or 3. Russia). This will regulate itself with the help of mods.

S:confused: would "Airlines of Russia and the former USSR/Soviet Union" (pick one of those) be acceptable?The former works for me as it's KISS ;) (and besides, if anyone doesn't know that the former USSR/Soviet Union = Russia, they have been living either in a gulag or under a rock ;))

This is a good suggestion. I wish other major airlines will be included here as well.

S:confused: would "Airlines of Russia and the former USSR/Soviet Union" (pick one of those) be acceptable?

"Airlines of Russia and the former Soviet Union" would probably be the least bad option. :p There will always be some confusion regarding specific airlines, and IMO the Baltic airlines will probably continue to be discussed where most of their action is now, BT in the SAS forum etc.

So are you all ok w/ "Airlines of Russia & the former Soviet Union" then?

Cheers.

So are you all ok w/ "Airlines of Russia & the former Soviet Union" then?

Cheers.As n;)ted here (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/18061897-post57.html), I think simply, "Airlines of Russia" would be best. If the name does refer to any additional areas, they should be modern references, as to the CIS, and not the Soviet Union. The addition of the CIS to a brief description would be good, IMHO.

So are you all ok w/ "Airlines of Russia & the former Soviet Union" then?

Cheers.

I think this had most "votes". Former Sovietunion is better than CIS, as CIS is much more limited.

If we can leave it upto the mods and users, OR simply add specifications in description, then Airlines of Russia sounds easy and good, even if we include the more modern CIS.

So, is it:

* Airlines of Russia, or
* Airlines of Russia & the former Soviet Union?

And what is the 'description' going to be if you want specifics there?

Please note I've only been to Russia once & not that up on the area/geography or the airlines.

Cheers.

My vote goes to the former ("Airlines of Russia"); if I have a right of say here:)

So, is it:

* Airlines of Russia, or
* Airlines of Russia & the former Soviet Union?

And what is the 'description' going to be if you want specifics there?

Please note I've only been to Russia once & not that up on the area/geography or the airlines.

Cheers.The Soviet Union has n:eek:t existed in over 20 years. I can't see how that can be used in the name. The CIS certainly does exist, and IMHO covers the areas one would expect to be covered by this forum. I highly suspect that Ukraine and the Baltic states would not wish to be lumped in with Russia. Please correct me if I am wrong.

I would go with simply, "Airlines of Russia." As far as the description is concerned, how 'bout this:
"Aeroflot, S7, Transaero and other airlines based in Russia and the CIS."

I would go with simply, "Airlines of Russia." As far as the description is concerned, how 'bout this:
"Aeroflot, S7, Transaero and other airlines based in Russia and the CIS."

Works for me. I'll wait until tomorrow to see if anyone else has any input.

Cheers.

I disagree with calling it only the "Airlines of Russia" forum. Many of us who are based in this part of the world fly frequently between Russia and many of the other countries in the region, often using non-Russian airlines. I would like to ensure that AeroSvit, Air Astana, Azerbaijan Airlines, and other similar airlines are included.

And I am sure that people from other countries will have less of an issue being told "use the Airlines of Former Soviet Union (or even Airlines of the CIS) forum" than "use the Airlines of Russia forum".

As to whether CIS or "former Soviet Union" is more correct, there is no clear answer. While "CIS" is more current than "former Soviet Union", it excludes some countries and frankly the CIS is largely irrelevant to people. But it is a more accepted term in the corporate world.

I disagree with calling it only the "Airlines of Russia" forum. Many of us who are based in this part of the world fly frequently between Russia and many of the other countries in the region, often using non-Russian airlines. I would like to ensure that AeroSvit, Air Astana, Azerbaijan Airlines, and other similar airlines are included.

And I am sure that people from other countries will have less of an issue being told "use the Airlines of Former Soviet Union (or even Airlines of the CIS) forum" than "use the Airlines of Russia forum".

As to whether CIS or "former Soviet Union" is more correct, there is no clear answer. While "CIS" is more current than "former Soviet Union", it excludes some countries and frankly the CIS is largely irrelevant to people. But it is a more accepted term in the corporate world.

IMO best summary so far. Airlines of Russia including former Sovietunion.

I am happy to cast a vote in favour of
"Airlines of Russia & the former Soviet Union"

As to whether CIS or "former Soviet Union" is more correct, there is no clear answer. While "CIS" is more current than "former Soviet Union", it excludes some countries and frankly the CIS is largely irrelevant to people. But it is a more accepted term in the corporate world.One could also argue that the Soviet Union is also largely irrelevant to pe:)ple by now. Which countries does the CIS moniker exclude that you feel should be included? Perhaps they should be included in the title or subtitle.

One could also argue that the Soviet Union is also largely irrelevant to pe:)ple by now. Which countries does the CIS moniker exclude that you feel should be included? Perhaps they should be included in the title or subtitle.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_of_Independent_States

Sovietunion is a static fact, while CIS is rather dynamic, leading to later changes. But by all means, CIS is more modern (but I dont think it is as clear to most as Sovietunion).

Then description should add; The Baltic states, Georgia, and also Ukraine and Turkmenistan as they are not full members anymore. Actually it would make sense to name all the 15 countries in the description if there is space.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_of_Independent_States

Sovietunion is a static fact, while CIS is rather dynamic, leading to later changes. But by all means, CIS is more modern (but I dont think it is as clear to most as Sovietunion).

Then description should add; The Baltic states, Georgia, and also Ukraine and Turkmenistan as they are not full members anymore. Actually it would make sense to name all the 15 countries in the description if there is space.I think SkiAdcock would appreciate any proposal being fully spelled out, with title and sub-title. Do y:)u mean something like this?:
Airlines of Russia and the CIS
Aeroflot, Aerosvit, S7, Transaero and other airlines based in Russia, the Baltic states, Georgia, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, and the CIS.
I'll once again state that I believe the Baltic states, Georgia, and Ukraine at least are likely to be unhappy at being lumped in with Russia. I'm no expert in such matters, though.

I think SkiAdcock would appreciate any proposal being fully spelled out, with title and sub-title.

Yes she would ;), so once there seems to be agreement I'll do the motion.

Cheers.

I think SkiAdcock would appreciate any proposal being fully spelled out, with title and sub-title. Do y:)u mean something like this?:

Quote:
Airlines of Russia and the CIS
Aeroflot, Aerosvit, S7, Transaero and other airlines based in Russia, the Baltic states, Georgia, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, and the CIS.

I'll once again state that I believe the Baltic states, Georgia, and Ukraine at least are likely to be unhappy at being lumped in with Russia. I'm no expert in such matters, though.

Good enough for me. When the last two lines are under description, and already half of the countries are listed, one could as well spell out the remaining 8 countries or so. Or leave it to the new mods sticky.

Ok, so is this it?

Forum Title: Airlines of Russia and the CIS

Forum Description: Aeroflot, Aerosvit, S7, Transaero and other airlines based in Russia, the Baltic states, Georgia, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, and the CIS.

If you all are good with that, then I'll do a motion & koko has said he'd second it.

I probably won't be on FT until tomorrow, so will check back then to see if the above is ok verbiage for the motion. Won't make it until then.

Cheers.

Ok, so is this it?

Forum Title: Airlines of Russia and the CIS

Forum Description: Aeroflot, Aerosvit, S7, Transaero and other airlines based in Russia, the Baltic states, Georgia, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, and the CIS.

If you all are good with that, then I'll do a motion & koko has said he'd second it.

I think we have included all aspects now^

If you all are good with that, then I'll do a motion & koko has said he'd second it.

No rush:D

Please do make a forum for aeroflot

Please do make a forum for aeroflot

What makes it distinct from other Russian airlines?

Deleted - was quoting wrong post.

Please do make a forum for aeroflot

Hello. In case you weren't aware, there is a Russia/CIS-Based Airlines forum.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/russia-cis-based-airlines-703/

Cheers.