All Nippon Airways Mileage Club - "Staggered" C or "The Square" F for award trip?

Hoping to use UA miles for a Star award for 2, Tokyo-London/Paris-Tokyo in spring 2013; plan to book as soon as possible (think it is 11 months) since availability is likely to be very limited. Was wondering if anyone has flown both the "staggered" business class seats and "The Square" first class seats. Would the 2 of us be easier to communicate in 2 center seat in first than in business? And is first worth the 20,000 miles more each way per person?

Used a Star award in spring 2010 for first class on LH Osaka-Rome RT and was glad to have gone for first rather than business because business looked very cramped, espeicially since it was jam-packed after several days of cancelled flights due to the volcano eruption.

Many here will tell you to do staggered C vs. suite F and save your miles. One thing is true: You will be able to communicate better with your partner in C (sight lines are better) than in the square suite of F, which basically amounts to cubicle. You will have to lean forward and stretch to have a conversation.

However, ANA F is still above and beyond their C product, and for 40k miles I think it's a no brainer. Go for F, if it's available, and if not, don't sweat it, stick with C, and you'll still have an excellent flight. I don't think they're putting the 787 on those routes any time soon, if at all, but if they did you would only have C has an option as there is no F.

My rule of thumb is if the flight is 4+ hours and/or int'l long-haul, I go with F. And since your flights would be 10+, it's a simple decision really. Good luck.

Good luck finding two award seats in F on ANA , even 11 months out.
They may open some inventory closer to departure but this does make it harder to plan.

Good luck finding two award seats in F on ANA , even 11 months out.
They may open some inventory closer to departure but this does make it harder to plan.

When we booked the 2 F seats on LH for Osaka-Rome, it seemed that they allotted 2 F seats for Star awards but no more even if the rest of F was empty all the way up to a couple of days before the flight, since it was later impossible to make a change even by one day. Hoping the the same is true of ANA. I think the earliest possible reservation is 330 days (or something like that; I'll have to confirm) in advance. LH first class would be our second choice if they still we're flying the A340 out of Osaka, since that configuration was very easy for 2 flying together, but they have switched to a 747-400 with F on the upper deck and it seems really strange (2 seats each?!). Could try for the LH A380 out of Narita, but I've heard that ANA product, both hard and soft, is much better. If ANA F is not available, we'll settle for the staggered C, as suggested above, but we wanted to make this a very special trip.

ANA does indeed make (2) F award seats available on all flights. However, their availability will fluctuate on and off, from available to waitlist to unavailable and back again. I've seen this on flights from two weeks to six months out. You do have to keep an eye on it and snatch them as soon as possible, so at least you have the right game plan in mind. I'm flying ORD-NRT next week and with the exception of 1A (which is always blocked for VIP/CIP) the cabin is empty and ANA is no longer selling the F cabin, not even if you wanted to pay for it. They may upgrade a DIA T-72 but then again they may not. It seems strange that ANA doesn't do more to fill their F product, but in a way I kind of like that they keep it exclusive and premium -- something no NA carrier would ever think to do.

If you are trying to make this trip special, then go for F, even if it's not on ANA. Otherwise, ANA does provide a superior soft product than any other airline I've experienced. The hard product/seat et al. isn't the best, but it's not bad by any means, and then of course you'll have your companion to keep you company. ;)

A further advantage of FC is the FC/Suites ANA lounge at NRT.

When we booked the 2 F seats on LH for Osaka-Rome, it seemed that they allotted 2 F seats for Star awards but no more even if the rest of F was empty all the way up to a couple of days before the flight, since it was later impossible to make a change even by one day. Hoping the the same is true of ANA. I think the earliest possible reservation is 330 days (or something like that; I'll have to confirm) in advance. LH first class would be our second choice if they still we're flying the A340 out of Osaka, since that configuration was very easy for 2 flying together, but they have switched to a 747-400 with F on the upper deck and it seems really strange (2 seats each?!). Could try for the LH A380 out of Narita, but I've heard that ANA product, both hard and soft, is much better. If ANA F is not available, we'll settle for the staggered C, as suggested above, but we wanted to make this a very special trip.

When you had LH in F, it was the old F seats, and those are widely available. Many routes that now have LH new F only open for awards like less than 3 weeks to departure. LH is using 744 with new F on FRA-KIX, there is no more 2+2 on the uppder deck, it is 1+1 (seat on one side, bed by the window)

When you had LH in F, it was the old F seats, and those are widely available. Many routes that now have LH new F only open for awards like less than 3 weeks to departure. LH is using 744 with new F on FRA-KIX, there is no more 2+2 on the uppder deck, it is 1+1 (seat on one side, bed by the window)

Yes I realize that LH KIX-FRA is currently the 744 with mostly the seat-bed combo or possibly the 2 seats per pax config. Our previous award was on an A340. For a couple flying together, I would prefer the old config, but I can understand that most F pax are solo and want a good bed. We would prefer flying out of KIX rather than ITM, so if F is available on LH, we'll try to book KIX-FRA-LHR on LH and CDG-NRT-ITM on ANA, but we did not like the look of C on the LH A340, and I've herd I've heard it is no better on the 744 (I'll have to search/inquire more on that), so if no F award is available, we'll probably settle for the staggered C on ANA round trip, in spite of the extra trouble of departing from ITM (maybe overnight at the NRT Hilton?). The upside of F unavailability would be that I'll have some miles left for another C trip in a few years. We fly revenue only once every 2 or 3 years to Hawaii (the only route that UA heavily discounts C, and sometimes F), but I earn about 60,000 miles/year on a UA MP CC.

my experience with reward travel on ANA is that Business (I class) is almost always open. so book the reward in business and keep checking for First (O class). that way you're secured in the staggered seat and if and when first opens, they just deduct the additional miles from your account and reissue your ticket. interestingly enough that i did your planned trip, but went NRT-CDG; LHR-NRT. CDG Terminal 1 is so weird, i dont understand why or how they built it like that. of course as other posters have mentioned, if you are able to book First, you have access to ANA's Suite Lounges at NRT, The SQ F lounge in LHR, but I'm not sure what lounge is available at CDG. There is also more privacy in F. Case-in-point, there were only two of us up front on both legs. That's as private as it gets for passengers! We were both able to have one "square" for relaxing and the other "square" for rest.

If we don't get F on the first try, it seems another option for C would be Asiana for KIX-INC-LHR and then the return on ANA CDG-NRT-ITM. Of course, that would mean giving up on a chance of F opening on the outbound, unless we paid the change fee. Past experience using UA miles for a Star award has always had C class availability on ANA, SQ, and Thai when booked well in advance (unlike trying to get anything from UA using UA mies).

I've had limited luck taking advantage of good lounges; either connection was too short or time of day was not conducive to good use. A long wait in UA's NRT business lounge left me very unimpressed. The one very big exception was the return on LH in F Venice-FRA-KIX. We did not want to leave Venice early so overnighted at FRA; arrived 8 PM for a 2 PM departure next day, which is considered a connecting flight. Upon arrival went to the LH F lounge and had a wonderful table-service dinner with much better wines than they serve in F onboard. Next day went back for lunch before departure.

I just returned from Tokyo and went out in new F and back in new C... if you're the kind of traveler that "just wants to get there", new C is great. The seat is comfortable and the food and service are good.

If you're a "it's about the journey" type of person, new F is fantastic. There were only 3 of us in the F cabin with 2 cabin attendants and everything was perfect.

If F is available, take F. If not, take C. My two cents.

Is the IFE any different between C vs. F? Or on the newer C vs. old C?

I just flew NH12 on the older angled flat C from NRT to ORD, and while the bed wasn't as uncomfortable as I imagined (still a far cry from lie-flat), what was really disappointing was the IFE. There were maybe a total of 70 movies, mixed between Japanese, "Hollywood" and "World". Only 3 video-type (TV, etc).

The controls were pretty bad and if I accidentally hit a button then it would kick me out of the movie and I would have to start over and fast forward to my spot.

The newest movie I was interested in seeing was "The Help"... which is quite dated. I liked the service a lot otherwise and hope ANA is investing in the IFE options (or iPads, etc.) Flew UA BusinessFirst on the way to NRT and the service was nearly as good if not on par with a much better hard product and better IFE. Only thing that could be better about the UA product would be direct aisle access for all seats, which was nice about CX's old C despite feeling like you are sleeping in a coffin.

A further advantage of FC is the FC/Suites ANA lounge at NRT.

Having been through there probably a half dozen times or so this year I have to say I am not even a little bit impressed with that lounge. I don't get the hype. Definitely go with the square. I recently flew NH F NRT-SFO (March maybe?) the worst part was that the flight was so short.