TalkBoard Topics - Counting OMNI P/R posts, where is the discussion and vote?

I read here where there is a discussion on whether to count OMNI P/R posts but clicking on the link, it is about OMNI game posts.

I post in OMNI P/R. However, I think each post should reduce one's post count by half. Once someone has a negative post count, they must donate ff miles or burn them in the oven (not burn them by using them). :p

It's the thread with over 9,000 views a few below the one you've started.
Comments Welcome: Voting Underway-Posts Count in All FT Forums (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkboard-topics/1298928-comments-welcome-voting-underway-posts-count-all-ft-forums.html)

That said, it's a moot point, as the motion passed.

That said, it's a moot point, as the motion passed.I'm not so certain it is moot.

Carol has been handed a very difficult decision as TalkBoard has been unable to decide whether posts should count on OMNI or not. Last summer Talkboard sent Carol a clear and decisive recommendation that posts should not count; last week it presented Carol with a U-turn.

Personally, I believe Carol has been placed in an unnecessarily awkward position. On the bright side, it may offer her a opportune moment to settle this issue once and for all.

I'm not so certain it is moot.

Carol has been handed a very difficult decision as TalkBoard has been unable to decide whether posts should count on OMNI or not. Last summer Talkboard sent Carol a clear and decisive recommendation that posts should not count; last week it presented Carol with a U-turn.

Personally, I believe Carol has been placed in an unnecessarily awkward position. On the bright side, it may offer her a opportune moment to settle this issue once and for all.

Would it not be easier for TB members to propose a motion that OMNI P/R count?

Prospero, thats the point of elections. so youre talking about having TB have even less to do.

Why would management do anything other than honor the stated wishes of the membership, as determined by the representative government they elected?

I'm not so certain it is moot.

Carol has been handed a very difficult decision as TalkBoard has been unable to decide whether posts should count on OMNI or not. Last summer Talkboard sent Carol a clear and decisive recommendation that posts should not count; last week it presented Carol with a U-turn.

Personally, I believe Carol has been placed in an unnecessarily awkward position. On the bright side, it may offer her a opportune moment to settle this issue once and for all.

I'm sure Carol will do the right thing, just the way Randy did.

Just say NO to counting posts in Omni.

I'm still trying to figure out why there was even a discussion of this, since it's been voted down before. :rolleyes:

Are we to believe that every time a vote goes the wrong way, that we can expect a new thread pleading for its return. :rolleyes:

I'm still convinced that this debate has been for debate purposes only. TB has better things to do than waste time. :-:

Dan

I'm sure Carol will do the right thing, just the way Randy did.

Just say NO to counting posts in Omni.

I'm still trying to figure out why there was even a discussion of this, since it's been voted down before. :rolleyes:

Are we to believe that every time a vote goes the wrong way, that we can expect a new thread pleading for its return. :rolleyes:

I'm still convinced that this debate has been for debate purposes only. TB has better things to do than waste time. :-:

Dan

So since something's voted down before that means it shouldn't be voted on again? You know, that's why there are elections -- if people are unhappy with the status quo, they can vote in people who promise to try to fix previous incorrect decisions.

Ultimately, it's Carol's call, but I'm unsure why she would allow and then announce a vote across all of FT and then not implement based on the recommendation of the TalkBoard.

I'm still convinced that this debate has been for debate purposes only. TB has better things to do than waste time. :-:

Dan

For all the people who've said that, I've received exactly zero ideas from the membership. Empty words and all that...

I'm not so certain it is moot.

Carol has been handed a very difficult decision as TalkBoard has been unable to decide whether posts should count on OMNI or not. Last summer Talkboard sent Carol a clear and decisive recommendation that posts should not count; last week it presented Carol with a U-turn.

No, it's not really a U-turn. The last vote was inconclusive, and I could have voted either way. I agreed to vote yes to count everything provided that we put a non-counted games forum to a vote. I split that second vote into two votes to allow people to consider separately the games forum and the counting question.

I expect all 3 votes to pass. I know that at least my vote for counting everything was really a vote for this package. By voting for the second part of the package I am not reversing myself. Nor is anyone else, in my opinion.

Why did I change my mind on counting OMNI since a year ago?

1. I was on the fence last year, just barely on the no side.
2. I learned a lot from the TS/S forum split. Travel debate is not so very different from OMNI/PR discussion. There can be some value to posts in both places.
3. The games forum split and non-counting appeared to me to have an excellent chance to pass, resulting in a reasonable compromise outcome.
4. I expect this compromise to be durable. It should end the annual debate about counting vs. non-counting. That's a win for everyone, IMHO.

From a members point of view it is a U-turn. The issue of post count, access restrictions changes with the tides so I am not so certain TB can deliver a durable solution on this. I mean no disrespect to TB or our TB members, its just a side effect of a committee where its members provide their service in a tight cycle. TB will naturally be fickle on these issues.

With each OMNI policy change there follows requests for all kinds of patches, so would it not be better if this issue was simply taken out of TBs hands and addressed by Carol once and for all.

From a members point of view it is a U-turn. The issue of post count, access restrictions changes with the tides so I am not so certain TB can deliver a durable solution on this. I mean no disrespect to TB or our TB members, its just a side effect of a committee where its members provide their service in a tight cycle. TB will naturally be fickle on these issues.

With each OMNI policy change there follows requests for all kinds of patches, so would it not be better if this issue was simply taken out of TBs hands and addressed by Carol once and for all.

Not withstanding assertions to the contrary, moderators exist as a privileged class... the bureaucrats who create and enforce regulation. They are indeed part of management, although the most poorly compensated part, at least financially.

Talkboard is the only vehicle available, intentionally defanged as it is, to keep their powers in check. And we finally, after years, have a Talkboard willing to stand up to the management class.

As a member, I strongly support Talkboard's actions, and can only hope they continue on their principled and member focused path.

Brian, we are still talking about an internet bulletin board, right? ;)

Brian, we are still talking about an internet bulletin board, right? ;)

We are indeed, one with hundreds of thousands of participants making millions of dollars a year for a company who "decides" how much free speech is adequate.

Not withstanding assertions to the contrary, moderators exist as a privileged class... the bureaucrats who create and enforce regulation. They are indeed part of management, although the most poorly compensated part, at least financially.

Talkboard is the only vehicle available, intentionally defanged as it is, to keep their powers in check. And we finally, after years, have a Talkboard willing to stand up to the management class.

I thought the Talk Board was specifically excluded from moderation issues and had no control at all over moderation. How, exactly, will they be keeping moderator powers in check when they have no authority to do so?

SanDiego1K made it pretty clear that the Talk Board won't be exercising control over moderators.


Under my watch:

1. The Moderator private forum is never going to be open for public reading.
2. Public discussion of individual discipline is not going to occur.
3. Public discussion of individual moderator action is not going to occur.
4. TalkBoard is not going to become the overlord of moderators.

I thought the Talk Board was specifically excluded from moderation issues and had no control at all over moderation. How, exactly, will they be keeping moderator powers in check when they have no authority to do so?

SanDiego1K made it pretty clear that the Talk Board won't be exercising control over moderators.

I agree with you, although I think it is an abuse of management's power to exercise it in this way.

However, I think it is clear that elements of the moderator corps sees themselves as managers of acceptable forms of expression here, and TB is doing a good job of nibbling away at that as far as they can.

It's only a matter of time until TB is reminded of their place by management, unless management recognizes that they do not have a legitimate role in controlling free speech, only frankly abusive speech.

It promises to be an interesting year.

I'm sure Carol will do the right thing, just the way Randy did.

Just say NO to counting posts in Omni.

I'm still trying to figure out why there was even a discussion of this, since it's been voted down before. :rolleyes:

Are we to believe that every time a vote goes the wrong way, that we can expect a new thread pleading for its return. :rolleyes:

I'm still convinced that this debate has been for debate purposes only. TB has better things to do than waste time. :-:

Dan

So since something's voted down before that means it shouldn't be voted on again? You know, that's why there are elections -- if people are unhappy with the status quo, they can vote in people who promise to try to fix previous incorrect decisions.

Ultimately, it's Carol's call, but I'm unsure why she would allow and then announce a vote across all of FT and then not implement based on the recommendation of the TalkBoard.

Originally Posted by CPRich in the other thread...

The OP says a 2/3 majority is required to pass. Isn't that 6 out of 9 votes? Losing by 1 vote would be 5 votes for, correct?

Motion Failed: Restore Post Count Credit for Omni says

On 8 August 2011 the TalkBoard failed to pass by a vote of 4-5


Motion Failed: Include OMNI posts in Post Counts says
On 29 February 2008, the TalkBoard failed to pass, 3-6

dhammer53 says...

Maybe if the topic keeps coming up every 2 months instead of every few months, it will eventually pass. :rolleyes:

dh

Originally Posted by CPRich in the other thread...

The OP says a 2/3 majority is required to pass. Isn't that 6 out of 9 votes? Losing by 1 vote would be 5 votes for, correct?

Motion Failed: Restore Post Count Credit for Omni says

On 8 August 2011 the TalkBoard failed to pass by a vote of 4-5


Motion Failed: Include OMNI posts in Post Counts says
On 29 February 2008, the TalkBoard failed to pass, 3-6

dhammer53 says...

Maybe if the topic keeps coming up every 2 months instead of every few months, it will eventually pass. :rolleyes:

dh

So important you needed to cross-post it?

OK, I can make the same point here, too.

That's three times in 5 years. And I ran for TB partially because of the most recent vote. Should my hands be tied by previous TalkBoard decisions?

And, BTW, some of the no votes are now yes votes, specifically because of the compromise proposed.

I'm not so certain it is moot.

Carol has been handed a very difficult decision as TalkBoard has been unable to decide whether posts should count on OMNI or not. Last summer Talkboard sent Carol a clear and decisive recommendation that posts should not count; last week it presented Carol with a U-turn.

Personally, I believe Carol has been placed in an unnecessarily awkward position. On the bright side, it may offer her a opportune moment to settle this issue once and for all.

Just curious - when did you start speaking for Carol?

Cheers.

I tend to think that if Carol were going to veto a proposal, she'd do so in the discussion stages, even before a formal motion is made.

That certainly was the case with a couple of my proposals (eg, opening the private TB forum for all posters to read, making moderators more accountable to the posters, etc).

What koko said.

This operation runs on teamwork, whereas some people think it's the US Congress or something similarly dysfunctional. No matter where ideas come from, they are almost certain to be considered and discussed, and Carol follows everything closely while largely deferring to the TalkBoard. I consider this an ideal arrangement.

What koko said.

This operation runs on teamwork, whereas some people think it's the US Congress or something similarly dysfunctional. No matter where ideas come from, they are almost certain to be considered and discussed, and Carol follows everything closely while largely deferring to the TalkBoard. I consider this an ideal arrangement.Agreed and agreed ^

Just curious - when did you start speaking for Carol?

Cheers.If my post came across that way, I sincerely apologise. That was not my intention. There is merit to my point however.

ooopsss.. never mind... I didn't read through to the end :(

That's three times in 5 years. And I ran for TB partially because of the most recent vote. Should my hands be tied by previous TalkBoard decisions?



Ever hear the expression beating a dead horse?

dh

If I'm reading this correctly, theres still a chance that Carol may not honor the decision of the TB?

Democracy is rough, and we may not all agree (I certainly have my reservations), but the voice of the people is heard about this issue whether we like it or not..

Plus Carol seemed 100% cooperative up to this point, to abide the wishes of the TB..

If I'm reading this correctly, theres still a chance that Carol may not honor the decision of the TB?

She's never been obligated to AFAIK.

Ever hear the expression beating a dead horse?

dh

It's not dead when we can remove the people who made that decision in the first place.

She's never been obligated to AFAIK.

That is correct. She has never been obligated to implement any TalkBoard motions that have passed.

Ever hear the expression beating a dead horse?

dh

That horse must be named Lazarus! ;):p

I will be honoring the vote of Talkboard once the two current votes, on a games forum and not counting the games forum, have concluded. All 3 votes are related and impact each other (depending on how the votes go). This way, I can work with Internet Brands at one time to make all necessary changes.

That horse must be named Lazarus! ;):p

LOL!:D

I will be honoring the vote of Talkboard once the two current votes, on a games forum and not counting the games forum, have concluded. All 3 votes are related and impact each other (depending on how the votes go). This way, I can work with Internet Brands at one time to make all necessary changes.

Good to know that the three motions seemed to be tied together on a move forward..