Online Travel Booking and Bidding Agencies - Vayama & Virgin Atlantic Flights

Hi, I'm really hoping someone here can help me. My family and I booked tickets to LHR for June of this year for 5 weeks (at 5 tickets total). Unfortunately, a major work issue has presented itself and we need to move our dates back to July. I contact Vayama via their online form and was told "Unfortunately, as per the airline policy and restrictions, the changes are not permitted", which was not what I knew to be true. I called Virgin and they told me I could switch dates, but that Vayama would have to do it since they issued the ticket.

I expected a change fee, and I would have NEVER booked a ticket that had no changes permitted - life is just too uncertain for that.

Any advice/help? Please, any advice would be appreciated, we can't afford to flush $5k down the drain...

Thanks.

Welcome to FT, Stephanie.

It looks like you may have purchased one of Vayama's "Special Fares", which is where they don't reveal the carrier until after you've made the purchase, allowing you to make the purchase at a little bit of a discount.

What is a 'vayama special fare'?
Per an agreement with some of our airline partners, fares identified as a 'vayama special fare!' cannot identify the specific airline name, arrival and departure times or number of stops until after the booking has been completed. To ensure customer satisfaction, when booking a fare indicated as a 'vayama special fare!', vayama offers one full hour to cancel the reservation for free if not satisfied with the flights and/or times of the booked itinerary.

So I'm afraid unless you tried to cancel the flights within an hour of when you booked, you are out of luck. It appears from what I quoted above that outside of the 60 minute window it is not even possible to cancel the tickets and receive any sort of refund. This is exactly how Priceline works with their "Name Your Own Price" airline tickets, as well as Hotwire's opaque airline ticket product.

1. I've never heard of an employer which doesn't make good on the costs an employee incurs associated with a cancelled vacation.

2. Can you post a link or cut & paste the refund/cancel provisions for your itinerary from Vayama (not Virgin).

Let's look at them first and move from that point.

Hi, thanks to both of you for your feedback. The fare rules and refund/exchange info is posted below. Nowhere does it state the the rules for the "Secret Fares" are different, nor was there any information about Virgin's flights being non-cancelable and non-changeable.


Fare Rules and Policies

Prices are shown in U.S. Dollars unless specifically indicated otherwise. Please check the currency code next to the displayed prices carefully.
Airfares and reservations are not guaranteed until all funds are collected, clarifications if any are resolved, fares are reconfirmed, and tickets are issued.
From the time of booking until the latest of 24 hours or the time ticket is issued, sufficient funds must be available on the credit card used for purchase to successfully charge and issue the ticket(s). If there are problems processing the credit card, be it for lack of funds or restrictions, Vayama will not guarantee the price quoted at the time of original booking or subsequent booking(s). Following a decline of credit card usage the customer attempting the charge is responsible for resolving the credit card issue(s) timely and expeditiously. Following a credit card decline, Vayama, at its discretion, may reprice, rebook and issue the ticket(s). If following the reprice and or rebook there are changes, Vayama will advise the customer and request approval. Tickets will not be issued until customer approval is provided. It is the customer's responsibility, not that of Vayama, to review and verify all credit card information at the time of making the reservation online and during any subsequent interactions.
First name and last name of each traveler must be entered into the reservation exactly as it appears on your Government issued Identification, be it your passport, driver license or other acceptable forms of identification as may be required. The inclusion of a Middle initial is optional. If a name change is requested by phone within 24 hour from the time of booking, Vayama may be able to void the booking and issue a new reservation by charging a standard void fee of $50USD. Name changes, including corrections due to spelling errors are not allowed after the 24 hour time window.
Tickets are nontransferable.
When applicable you may accrue miles subject to the airline rules and policies. Vayama is not responsible for mileage credits and Upgrades. Upgrades, if allowed, are purely at the discretion of the airline. Check directly with the airline for additional information.
Charges may include a non-refundable Vayama booking fee which may be billed separately on your credit card statement. When applicable the booking fee will be INCLUDED within the fare total quoted at the time of booking.
Total charges for the booking may include one or more charge on the credit card(s) by Vayama, the ticketing airline and other partners such as Travel Guard, our insurance partner.
Customers who purchase trip insurance are responsible to contact Travel Guard directly for any changes, cancellations, clarifications and/or claims.
All customers traveling internationally will be required to obtain and carry necessary and pertinent travel documents including but not limited to, Passport, Business VISA, permanent or semi permanent Work VISA, Student VISA, Transit VISA, Advanced Parole etc... Traveler is responsible for the review of travel restrictions to determine and obtain all required travel documentation ahead of the originating travel date as may be necessary. Neither Vayama nor its agents are responsible for providing answers to specific questions related to travel documentation requirements.


Refunds and Exchanges

If allowed by the airline, fare rules associated with the ticket(s) issued may be refunded or exchanged for the original purchase price less the applicable airline penalties, plus any fare difference between the original fare paid and the fare associated with the new ticket(s). In addition, Vayama will charge a change/refund processing fee of $100.00/person.
Vayama has no control over airline penalties associated with refunds or exchanges which can range $50-$400 per ticket in most cases.
All cancellation and exchange requests must be initiated at least four (4) days before scheduled departure.
A ticket loses all value if/when the passenger associated with the ticket during any part of the travel does not show up at the check-in counter or cancel the booking at least 2 hours before scheduled departure or as required by specific airline rules. Customers desiring to make last minute changes (within four hours of scheduled departures) must contact the airline directly for assistance.
International travel often includes multiple airlines, each with an individual set of fare rules. If more than one set of fare rules are associated with the total fare, the most restrictive rules will apply to the entire booking.
If changes are allowed and the total fare of the new ticket including base fare, fees, penalties and taxes is more than the original ticket fare, Vayama must collect the additional difference before processing the refunds or issuing the new ticket(s).
Processing exchanges for most international tickets can be a complex and time consuming procedure and can take several business days to complete. Vayama makes every effort to provide quotes and process exchanges in a timely manner.

Additionally, I phoned Virgin yesterday and they told me the tickets could be changed for a $200 penalty. I called Vayama and they said that Virgin's rules stipulated no changes. So, I got Ryan from Vayama and Jordan from Virgin on a conference call where the two proceeded to argue. Jordan said that my tickets could be changed but it was Vayama's rules that said no changes - Ryan said it was Virgin's rules that said no changes. Net net, it sounds like Vayama does not want to change my tickets and Virgin has no problem with it but can't do it themselves since they didn't issue the tickets.

The argument got quite heated and there was no resolution. Ryan from Vayama literally emailed the information to Jordan at Virgin, Jordan went and spoke with his manager who said those were NOT Virgin's rules.

I don't know what to do now.

Regarding my company paying, there's no chance. I'm in a really tough situation.

Thanks again for your thoughts/advice. I've read this forum often but never posted - it's nice having a community like this.

Call back and do the same thing all over again. The first rule of the recalcitrant agent is to politely hang up and redial.

You say in your email that Vayma "literally emailed...." What was emailed?

Good question, I should have insisted on a copy of the documentation as well. So I didn't see it, but what was related to me was that Vayama has documentation from Virgin stating that no outbound changes are permitted, which is what they use as basis to deny change requests. The Virgin rep said no, that is not true, and they don't have documentation stating that so it must be a Vayama rule.

Since it wasn't disclosed by Vayama, and isn't a Virgin rule, the whole situation seems very suspicious, highly misleading, and potentially worse. I wonder if I should contact the Better Business Bureau?

Additionally, the email I got back from Vayama initially denying my request stated that no changes at all were permitted, which is contradictory to what I was told on the phone since he stated that there were no outbound changes.

Help!?!

Good question, I should have insisted on a copy of the documentation as well. So I didn't see it, but what was related to me was that Vayama has documentation from Virgin stating that no outbound changes are permitted, which is what they use as basis to deny change requests. The Virgin rep said no, that is not true, and they don't have documentation stating that so it must be a Vayama rule.

Since it wasn't disclosed by Vayama, and isn't a Virgin rule, the whole situation seems very suspicious, highly misleading, and potentially worse. I wonder if I should contact the Better Business Bureau?

Additionally, the email I got back from Vayama initially denying my request stated that no changes at all were permitted, which is contradictory to what I was told on the phone since he stated that there were no outbound changes.

Help!?!
Since your profile doesn't explain the area in which you live, it's hard to provide concrete advice. The solution you are looking for is time-sensitive because a 2-year legal fight won't solve your problem.

BBB's tend to be toothless in terms of actually solving problems. But, you may find that a consumer mediator for your state's Attorney General, may join a conference call with Virgin + Vayama. Having someone "official" on a call tends to make people behave better.

In the meantime, I would suggest redoing the conf call you did earlier with Virgin & Vayama. You may get better people.

Let me also note that looking at Vayama's website, if you do suceed, you are looking at a change fee of roughly $500 per ticket (including Vayama's per ticket change fee). For 5 people, that's $2,500. Make sure that you can ante that up on the spot, if you suceed.

Finally, it is worth a call to Virgin and, when you get the "you have to ask Vayama," just politely ask for a supervisor. Explain the problem and ask for help. If you don't get help, ask for the second tier supervisor. That should be someone with the authority to take over the booking or at least tell you what's up. My suggestion is to write out "the problem" in 3 short sentences so that you don't confuse things. All that Virgin needs to know is:

1. You need to make a change
2. Vayama claims that Virgin doesn't allow changes, but Virgin says that it will.
3. You, as the customer, are caught in the middle and need help fixing the problem.

Everything else is extraneous, irrelevant and makes it less likely that you will get the result you want.

Then -- Get a new job ! If your employer seriously won't handle the costs associated with cancelled travel during planned vacation, they deserve to go under and you deserve a real employer.

Not as a lecture to OP, but for others: I would never use a third-party booking site unless the savings were enormous. When things go right, as they usually do, the third-party sites are fine. But when it comes to problems, they can be less flexible and more problematic.

Thanks a lot for the advice, I will start by sending an email to the customer service rep, David, that I've seen referenced on here. If he's unable to help, I'll get a conference call started again.

I also checked Vayama's fare changes and I understood it to be $100/ticket for Vayama, which is what the rep also told me.

Thanks again for your time.

Oh, I'm located in California, not sure if that matters or not.

There are three things you can do here:

1. Ask Vayama to grant Virgin permission to modify the reservation. Usually they don't like to do this, but if you ask then they often will. They simply have to put a note in the reservation giving the airline permission to change it. Then you can call Virgin and they can change it themselves.

2. If you only want to change your return flight, then wait until after your outbound flight. Once you begin your trip, the airline has the right to change your itinerary without the agency's approval.

3. Call Vayama and ask to speak to a supervisor or manager. It seems like the agent you spoke to was either misinformed or lazy.

The Vayama change fee is $100 over and above the carrier's change fee per ticket. If Virgin's change fee is $250 per ticket, the change fee will be $350 per ticket or $1,750 total. That's a lot better than losing $5,000, but it's still a 35% penalty.

My only suggestion is that you have your CC handy during your calls so that, if a solution becomes available, you can take advantage of it on the spot. The one thing to avoid in a messy situation such as this is to finally reach someone who will help you, only to have to call back later with CC info and deal with the fools again.

I contact Vayama via their online form and was told "Unfortunately, as per the airline policy and restrictions, the changes are not permitted", which was not what I knew to be true. I called Virgin and they told me I could switch dates, but that Vayama would have to do it since they issued the ticket.


True and this is the problem when you book through a third-party site.
Hi, thanks to both of you for your feedback. The fare rules and refund/exchange info is posted below. Nowhere does it state the the rules for the "Secret Fares" are different, nor was there any information about Virgin's flights being non-cancelable and non-changeable.
No, there never is. Vayama cannot list all the policies of every airline, thus the generic language in their Refund and Exchange section.


If allowed by the airline, fare rules associated with the ticket(s) issued may be refunded or exchanged for the original purchase price less the applicable airline penalties, plus any fare difference between the original fare paid and the fare associated with the new ticket(s). In addition, Vayama will charge a change/refund processing fee of $100.00/person.
Vayama has no control over airline penalties associated with refunds or exchanges can range $50-$400 per ticket in most cases.

So I didn't see it, but what was related to me was that Vayama has documentation from Virgin stating that no outbound changes are permitted, which is what they use as basis to deny change requests. The Virgin rep said no, that is not true, and they don't have documentation stating that so it must be a Vayama rule.

I wonder if I should contact the Better Business Bureau?

Vayama doesn't make the rule about flight changes, it's up to the airline. Can't really comment on that, as I have no idea what the fare rules are for your ticket. Keep in mind that sometimes airline phone agents have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. As stated, the BBB is an absolute waste of time and they have no power. Forget that solution.

Thanks a lot for the advice, I will start by sending an email to the customer service rep, David, that I've seen referenced on here. If he's unable to help, I'll get a conference call started again.

I also checked Vayama's fare changes and I understood it to be $100/ticket for Vayama, which is what the rep also told me.


The Vayama change fee is $100 over and above the carrier's change fee per ticket. If Virgin's change fee is $250 per ticket, the change fee will be $350 per ticket or $1,750 total. That's a lot better than losing $5,000, but it's still a 35% penalty.

My only suggestion is that you have your CC handy during your calls so that, if a solution becomes available, you can take advantage of it on the spot. .
Agree again. You're going to have to pay Vayama's fees plus the airline's fees.

Please come back and post what happens after you hear from David. Good luck! Next time, consider purchasing travel insurance that will cover "Cancel for Work Reason". The premium for a policy through Travelguard probably would have been under $100 for you.