TalkBoard Topics - Motion Passed - Create a Games Forum under the Omni Category

“Moved by nsx and seconded by Cholula:

Creation of a Games forum

The TalkBoard recommends creation of a Games forum under the OMNI category intended for threads such as the following:

1. Counting games
2. Word association games
3. Threads for posting the time of day
4. FT-specific but not forum-specific contests and giveaways where posting in the thread gives you a chance to win, even if you only win bragging rights
5. Any thread that has in the moderators' judgment has become a game.

Although the moderators always have the final decision on whether and where to move any thread, in the TalkBoard's opinion Lounge threads in non-OMNI forums are not Game threads.”

This vote will close on January 31, 2012 at 11:03 pm or after all TalkBoard members have registered their vote, whichever comes first.

Per the TalkBoard Guidelines:

A motion shall pass if at least two-thirds of the yes or no votes cast by TalkBoard members are ‘yes’ and a majority of the total TalkBoard membership votes 'yes.'

The purpose of posting voting topics in the public TalkBoard Topics forum is to solicit member feedback on any motions that are up for a vote and to allow for comments after a vote is made. It is at the sole discretion of the individual TalkBoard members whether they choose to post in the public discussion thread, there being no requirement to do so.

So while there is already a thread and discussion on this general topic and it is safe to assume that TalkBoard members have reviewed that thread, this thread is about this specific motion.

Oppose.

I support this motion.

Oppose.

Why? I know the arguments in favor of the proposal, but I'd like to hear the arguments against it in case I overlooked something.

Why? I know the arguments in favor of the proposal, but I'd like to hear the arguments against it in case I overlooked something.

Because we all know that posts in a "Games" forum will contribute as much to the FT community as some of the posts in a Lounge forum or OMNI - nothing. I think we ought to stick with consistency and count ALL posts if that's the direction in which we're moving. I understand that the idea of segregating "Games" threads/posts is appealing because it's easy to identify that those posts don't add community value or could lead to post-padding (if that's what TB is worried about), but there are and will be numerous posts in Lounge forums or in OMNI that would probably deserve to be segregated from a member's post count on the same grounds, but they aren't as easy to identify.

Perfect post count justice is not attainable. Even if it were, people disagree on what it means.

Nevertheless, I hope you would agree that if OMNI posts are to be counted then this proposal moves in the right direction.

Perfect post count justice is not attainable. Even if it were, people disagree on what it means.

Nevertheless, I hope you would agree that if OMNI posts are to be counted then this proposal moves in the right direction.

This is exactly why I oppose the motion. Identifying Games posts that don't contribute to the main mission of FT is easy, but there are so many others in OMNI, Lounges, and elsewhere that fall in the same vein.

Just count everything and be done with it.

Perfect post count justice is not attainable. Even if it were, people disagree on what it means.

Nevertheless, I hope you would agree that if OMNI posts are to be counted then this proposal moves in the right direction.
Perfect post count justice, going forward at least, is attainable. Simply count all posts.
This is exactly why I oppose the motion. Identifying Games posts that don't contribute to the main mission of FT is easy, but there are so many others in OMNI, Lounges, and elsewhere that fall in the same vein.

Just count everything and be done with it.
I agree with you.

I support the creation of a Games thread. I would prefer it be stand alone. I would support a count exclusive to games thread as long as it is stand alone.

Oppose.

+1

I support this motion.

+1

(I think I have just made this a game thread.) :D

I support the creation of a Games thread. I would prefer it be stand alone. I would support a count exclusive to games thread as long as it is stand alone.

Right. I agree. They should be right direction for everyone else.

Better organization to have all the games under one forum/heading..

Opposed. Enough with the massive FT makeover, which itself seems almost a game within a game.

“Moved by nsx and seconded by Cholula:

Creation of a Games forum

<snip>

Although the moderators always have the final decision on whether and where to move any thread, in the TalkBoard's opinion Lounge threads in non-OMNI forums are not Game threads.”

Of course they are. Put the lounge threads over there, too. And any other threads designed to pad posts without providing substance -- if they *really* have any use, people will follow them over there.

(If the posts aren't counted, the lounge threads would die in a week, I'd bet.)

Put the lounge threads over there, too.
Let's not rehash the whole lounge subforum in OMNI debate (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkboard-topics/1241408-suggestion-creation-lounge-subforum-omni.html), OK?

This motion is about OMNI Games Forum. Let's try to stay on topic this time. ;)

ETA:
(If the posts aren't counted, the lounge threads would die in a week, I'd bet.)
You can't be more wrong. It can die even when posts are counting. Lounge threads are never about counting posts.

A home doesn't become empty just because of change of address.

Of course they are. Put the lounge threads over there, too. And any other threads designed to pad posts without providing substance -- if they *really* have any use, people will follow them over there.

(If the posts aren't counted, the lounge threads would die in a week, I'd bet.)
We went over that as an example of the double standard of counting posts or not counting them.

The lounge-ites went into full tizzy over it.

Hence, making Omni posts count seemed to be the only way to go so all off-topic posts are treated the same.

We went over that as an example of the double standard of counting posts or not counting them.

The lounge-ites went into full tizzy over it.

Hence, making Omni posts count seemed to be the only way to go so all off-topic posts are treated the same.

As a lounge-ite, I can tell you that the problem was not whether the posts would be counted or not. We simply did not want our lounges sullied by the Omni atmosphere.

As a lounge-ite, I can tell you that the problem was not whether the posts would be counted or not. We simply did not want our lounges sullied by the Omni atmosphere.
What Omni atmosphere? Omni-fluffy is back to the same, helpful, fun ways before the P/R took over. Now that it's been segregated out, I've seen quite a few people come back.

It's attitudes like yours that further the redheaded stepchild reputation.

As a lounge-ite, I can tell you that the problem was not whether the posts would be counted or not. We simply did not want our lounges sullied by the Omni atmosphere.
Dov, even though I am with you on this, don't let our "lounge talk" derail the motion at hand. As stated in OP, lounge threads are excluded in this motion.

This is about Games Subforum in OMNI.

This motion is about OMNI Games Forum. Let's try to stay on topic this time. ;)

Sorry, I thought the topic was gathering up all the non-substance threads and putting them together in one place. ;)

Seems to me that Lounge threads clearly fit in that category, and indeed the person moving the question apparently thought so, too, hence they added the caveat that (despite their apparent fit) the "TalkBoard" didn't intend that result as to Lounge threads. My rejoinder is "why not?" If it looks like a duck, waddles like a duck, and quacks like a duck, why not treat it like a duck?

We went over that as an example of the double standard of counting posts or not counting them.

The lounge-ites went into full tizzy over it.

Hence, making Omni posts count seemed to be the only way to go so all off-topic posts are treated the same.

That's like saying that since some people like junk food we should call junk food "nutritious" on a board dedicated to nutrition or the Twinkies and soda crowd will get their knickers in a knot.

I have no problem with non-substantive threads or the people who like them; I'm just saying move them to the other side of the tracks so we don't keep stumbling over them when we look for travel-related information.

I have no problem with non-substantive threads or the people who like them; I'm just saying move them to the other side of the tracks so we don't keep stumbling over them when we look for travel-related information.If the off-topic nature of Omni was the reason for posts to not count any longer, then I could/may agree with you. However, that's not the reason he suddenly and without warned turned off counting in Omni - it was because of post-padding abuse and he was tired of hearing about it.

This whole issue never would have come up if he just would had stopped the post padders. I can't say I've seen any board, even those as specialized at FT, that don't count their off-topic area.

But I also believe OT shouldn't be in the main forums - and that may be where your issue really lies. If you don't want to see Omni you don't have to visit - you can even have it removed from your access if you don't want to see the threads under "new posts."

Sorry, I thought the topic was gathering up all the non-substance threads and putting them together in one place. ;)

Seems to me that Lounge threads clearly fit in that category, and indeed the person moving the question apparently thought so, too, hence they added the caveat that (despite their apparent fit) the "TalkBoard" didn't intend that result as to Lounge threads. My rejoinder is "why not?" If it looks like a duck, waddles like a duck, and quacks like a duck, why not treat it like a duck?

Counsellor, you know I like & respect you, but I think you should read the posts in the link that lin821 posted above in its entirety before you comment on the Omni/lounge aspect. Also, a # of the posts in the long should posts count in Omni thread, which will provide further input & history.

The original motion to have post counts in Omni took all of that into consideration, and this motion takes all that into consideration as well.

And as lin821 pointed out, THIS thread is about creating a games forum under Omni. If you've got specific input for pros/cons of a games forum we're interested to hear them, but lounge threads going into the games forum is not on the table.

Cheers.

I sort of wavering on the side of "No" now. I think that in a few weeks we'll be back to the same 2-3 games that are always active in OMNI. I don't think that 2-3 active games rationalizes an entirely new forum.

Plus I'll miss that part of the OMNI community. I enjoy watching the numbers tick down even though I don't participate that frequently. If an OMNI games forum happens I'll have another another page to check daily.

I'm beginning to feel like the motion was a little premature. We should have waited a few weeks for the novality of OMNI counting to wear off and then re-evaluated.

I sort of wavering on the side of "No" now. I think that in a few weeks we'll be back to the same 2-3 games that are always active in OMNI. I don't think that 2-3 active games rationalizes an entirely new forum.

Plus I'll miss that part of the OMNI community. I enjoy watching the numbers tick down even though I don't participate that frequently. If an OMNI games forum happens I'll have another another page to check daily.

I'm beginning to feel like the motion was a little premature. We should have waited a few weeks for the novality of OMNI counting to wear off and then re-evaluated.

Precisely. Let's wait and see before jumping to conclusions. Even then, I think the issue can be handled in a much better manner than excluding certain posts from the count. Let's be consistent here. Wasn't that the argument for counting OMNI posts?

Precisely. Let's wait and see before jumping to conclusions. Even then, I think the issue can be handled in a much better manner than excluding certain posts from the count. Let's be consistent here. Wasn't that the argument for counting OMNI posts?

Yes, it was, and I think we should be consistent throughout FT.

i strongly oppose counting games to be seperated. it serves bonding this community and should not be seen seperable from the rest of OMNI.
either they all count or they all dont count.

Yes to separate games forum.

The TalkBoard recommends creation of a Games forum under the OMNI category intended for threads such as the following:

1. Counting games
2. Word association games
3. Threads for posting the time of day
4. FT-specific but not forum-specific contests and giveaways where posting in the thread gives you a chance to win, even if you only win bragging rights
5. Any thread that has in the moderators' judgment has become a game.


Does this thread fall into any of the above Game "definitions?" Just asking.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/diningbuzz/1073328-what-last-thing-you-put-your-mouth.html

support

Should games posting be counted.. doesn't make sense.. but I think my opinion is soft and will go with what the majority feel here..

Hi,

I support this motion

I oppose it

It boggles my mind the amount of time people spend discussing the game threads. I've been around here for a dozen years, and for the most part, with one or two exceptions, I just ignore them. I may do the Thank God It's Friday from time to time, but I personally know it' snot really all that hard to just ignore them and skip over them.

Are there people who have to open and read each and every thread?

I also think certain threads are being singled out when there are entire forums elsewhere totally considered OK that have little to do with travel. Are those forums next? One by one will there be a proposal to split every forum on Flyertalk into part that post count doesn't count for the off topic discussions?

I had hoped to have some time between when OMNI posts started counting and the deadline for this vote in order to gauge whether a new games forum was actually called for, or if there was a bit of chicken little going on.

Alas, that period for observation is not forthcoming as OMNI posts are still not counting.

So I voted no on this proposal.

I see a lot of grey areas in the definition of 'games,' so I'd prefer to see a need for a separate games forum arise before creating one.

support

why?

if wwbtnftmtp get's into games forum - there will be even less people posting.

why?

if wwbtnftmtp get's into games forum - there will be even less people posting.

Less posting (or posting that doesn't count on the post count) seems to be why TB is generally supporting this motion.

I support this motion.

Thanking God that it is Friday does not "contribute to the community" much at all. OMNI/PR at least has some substance, and lounge threads/OMNI serve for community building.

Games serve for post count padding.

I had hoped to have some time between when OMNI posts started counting and the deadline for this vote in order to gauge whether a new games forum was actually called for, or if there was a bit of chicken little going on.

Alas, that period for observation is not forthcoming as OMNI posts are still not counting.

So I voted no on this proposal.

I see a lot of grey areas in the definition of 'games,' so I'd prefer to see a need for a separate games forum arise before creating one.

Outstanding logic! ^

Let's take a "wait and see" approach here, folks. No knee-jerk reaction required.

I support this motion.

Thanking God that it is Friday does not "contribute to the community" much at all. OMNI/PR at least has some substance, and lounge threads/OMNI serve for community building.

Games serve for post count padding.

So you didn't buy into the need to count OMNI posts based on the "a post is a post is a post" logic? I thought folks who argued in favor of counting OMNI posts did so from the standpoint of "consistency".

I was under the impression that the point was to have every post count. Let games count and why move them?

BTW I think it was brought up that other forums count off topic threads so FT should. The ones I saw also counted games.

Maybe to remove all this post counting concerns, just have a field that you can enter any number you please. Set a limit, because a billion is just silly.

Also so CC and OMNI can retain their elite status, you would only be able to input your fantasy number after 180 posts or what not.

Flyertalk.

So now we're a gaming website? :rolleyes: There's going to be a day when FT isn't known as a destination site for talk on miles and points.

Flyertalk.

So now we're a gaming website? :rolleyes: There's going to be a day when FT isn't known as a destination site for talk on miles and points.

If we can get the wiki-post thing worked out, FT will be THE place to go for not just miles and points but hotel information for elites, best bets for destinations, etc, etc. ^

Flyertalk.

So now we're a gaming website? :rolleyes: There's going to be a day when FT isn't known as a destination site for talk on miles and points.

A bit over the top I think :rolleyes:

Game threads already exist & have for years in Omni. So basically you're saying FT hasn't existed as a place for miles & points for years ;)

Putting games in a sub-forum allows those FTers who play them to have a place to do so, without cluttering up the pages that some seem to object to, or anticipate doing so when the posts counts gets turned on; checking the threads in Omni for the last few weeks, 1-3 are on the front page, which is pretty consistent & not everwhelming.

Cheers.

Flyertalk.

So now we're a gaming website? :rolleyes: There's going to be a day when FT isn't known as a destination site for talk on miles and points.

Someday some people will realize that while points and miles are the reason the site is here in the first place, it's the community that's the glue that keeps everyone around. For some, it's non-stop talk about points and miles. For others, it's OMNI. For others, it's Lounge Threads. For yet others, it's game threads.

Oh, I forgot. Whoopie Do.

If we can get the wiki-post thing worked out, FT will be THE place to go for not just miles and points but hotel information for elites, best bets for destinations, etc, etc. ^

I thought FlyerTalk was talk about mail out flyers .. didn't occur to me until after a few reads, it was all about flying, hotels, rental vehicles and more..:D

Oh, I forgot. Whoopie Do.

Even though I've disagreed with you the past few days, I do agree with you on this comment. :p

The thing I like about Flyertalk, is that many of us really care about this place. ^

Dan

Even though I've disagreed with you the past few days, I do agree with you on this comment. :p

The thing I like about Flyertalk, is that many of us really care about this place. ^

Dan

Even though it's about 5 years behind the times technically and isn't as flashy as the new kid on the block, I'm a fan of FT.

Someday some people will realize that while points and miles are the reason the site is here in the first place, it's the community that's the glue that keeps everyone around. For some, it's non-stop talk about points and miles. For others, it's OMNI. For others, it's Lounge Threads. For yet others, it's game threads.

Oh, I forgot. Whoopie Do.There's a DO about making Whoopie? ;) <ducking>

Even though I've disagreed with you the past few days, I do agree with you on this comment. :p

The thing I like about Flyertalk, is that many of us really care about this place. ^

DanBolding mine: Can't say that enough ^^^^^

On January 19, 2012, the Talkboard passed 7-2:

"The TalkBoard recommends creation of a Games forum under the OMNI category intended for threads such as the following:

1. Counting games
2. Word association games
3. Threads for posting the time of day
4. FT-specific but not forum-specific contests and giveaways where posting in the thread gives you a chance to win, even if you only win bragging rights
5. Any thread that has in the moderators' judgment has become a game.

Although the moderators always have the final decision on whether and where to move any thread, in the TalkBoard's opinion Lounge threads in non-OMNI forums are not Game threads."

Voting yes: bhatnasx, Cholula, goalie, jackal, nsx, RichMsn, SkiAdcock
Voting no: kokonutz, Spiff

Voting yes: bhatnasx, Cholula, goalie, jackal, kokonutz, nsx, RichMsn, SkiAdcock
Voting no: kokonutz, Spiff

I've warned kokonutz repeatedly about casting two votes on one motion!

I've warned kokonutz repeatedly about casting two votes on one motion!

Heh. You would notice that. A typo, I'm sure.

I've warned kokonutz repeatedly about casting two votes on one motion!

:D At least one negated the other.

Sorry - in my rush to post the results after some saying where are the results, I accidently included koko twice. It's been corrected.

Cheers.

I've warned kokonutz repeatedly about casting two votes on one motion!

In Chicago they taught me to vote the SAME WAY twice, not in opposite ways.

Slow learner, me. :D

I've warned kokonutz repeatedly about casting two votes on one motion!

hehehe. Dov, you are my true hero! :D

"The TalkBoard recommends creation of a Games forum under the OMNI category intended for threads such as the following:

1. Counting games
2. Word association games
3. Threads for posting the time of day
4. FT-specific but not forum-specific contests and giveaways where posting in the thread gives you a chance to win, even if you only win bragging rights
5. Any thread that has in the moderators' judgment has become a game.


For the moment being, I am seeing 8 threads in the newly created OMNI/Game Forum.

Does it mean MODs will only work on reorganizing threads within the big OMNI family in the days/weeks to come? Or will the mod team work together then move game-like threads from other fora, such as this one (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/17850246-post28.html), over to OMNI/GAME eventually?

For the moment being, I am seeing 8 threads in the newly created OMNI/Game Forum.

Does it mean MODs will only work on reorganizing threads within the big OMNI family in the days/weeks to come? Or will the mod team work together then move game-like threads from other fora, such as this one (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/17850246-post28.html), over to OMNI/GAME eventually?

My 'guess' is the Community Director moved a few threads into the Games forum when she created it, but will leave it up to Omni mods to move other game forums from Omni lite/PR to the Omni games sub-forum now that it's been created.

If you think a thread in a different forum belongs in the games forum, my recommendation would be to PM the mod of that forum (or a senior mod if the forum doesn't have a moderator) & suggest it be moved to the games forum. Speaking for myself, I don't expect Omni mods to read all other forums looking for possible game threads to move into Omni Games.

Cheers.

Speaking for myself, I don't expect Omni mods to read all other forums looking for possible game threads to move into Omni Games.

Sorry if I was not clear. I didn't mean for OMNI mods to go hunting for game threads in other fora.

Even though I have no problem using RBPs, what I do want to know is, with the creation of OMNI/Game Forum, if the whole mod team will cooperate together to fill the space for the new subforum from all corners of FT. The referenced thread in DiningBuzz! Forum is just an example that I remember, and imho, would fit with the description of OMNI/Game Forum.

I am sure every mod knows their guided forum better than regular FTers. It will be a much seamless move if the mod team works hand in hand to establish the grounds for the new OMNI/Game Forum.

hehehe. Dov, you are my true hero! :D

For the moment being, I am seeing 8 threads in the newly created OMNI/Game Forum.

Does it mean MODs will only work on reorganizing threads within the big OMNI family in the days/weeks to come? Or will the mod team work together then move game-like threads from other fora, such as this one (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/17850246-post28.html), over to OMNI/GAME eventually?
Based on this post (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/17929867-post40.html), the mods are moving threads, but are using a "very light" touch to determine what is and is not a game.
My 'guess' is the Community Director moved a few threads into the Games forum when she created it, but will leave it up to Omni mods to move other game forums from Omni lite/PR to the Omni games sub-forum now that it's been created.

If you think a thread in a different forum belongs in the games forum, my recommendation would be to PM the mod of that forum (or a senior mod if the forum doesn't have a moderator) & suggest it be moved to the games forum. Speaking for myself, I don't expect Omni mods to read all other forums looking for possible game threads to move into Omni Games.

Cheers.
They're using a "very light" touch, so I wouldn't guess that at least initially, many non-OMNI threads will be moved.

I've warned kokonutz repeatedly about casting two votes on one motion!

Maybe we should pass a motion that TB members can only vote once.:D