LAN LANPASS - Help please: SPG to LAN 60 days to transfer?

I transferred points from Starwood Preferred Guest to LAN on December 23, 2011. LAN tells me that the points can take up to 60 days to transfer, despite Starwood's email confirmation that says 2-4 weeks. Can anyone tell me if there's something I can do to expedite the transfer? I am concerned that it may not go through at all.

Well, I made a transfer a week ago and am certainly hoping mine doesn't end up like yours.

60 days is ridiculous.

I transferred points from Starwood Preferred Guest to LAN on December 23, 2011. LAN tells me that the points can take up to 60 days to transfer, despite Starwood's email confirmation that says 2-4 weeks. Can anyone tell me if there's something I can do to expedite the transfer? I am concerned that it may not go through at all.

Have you called Starwood to inquire about this? That is absurd.

I checked with Starwood and the agent didn't have any knowledge of how these transfers are processed. All she could do was read the terms from their website. Will try again and hope for a more knowledgeable agent.

I transferred SPG points to LAN on 12/23/11 also, and haven't seen them credited in my LAN account either.

Any updates to this?

I transferred SPG points to LAN on 12/23/11 also, and haven't seen them credited in my LAN account either.

Grr, this is sounding like a systematic problem. I was hoping to use these miles for a trip coming up in March. Guess that's not likely to happen.

I guess I either want these to post now, or take > 6 weeks so that I can level blame at SPG for not honoring their 4-6 week policy on miles transfers.

I did the same and two weeks later have not had the miles credited. Even worse, I realized that the names do not match on my accounts, which the SPG rep said means my miles will likely stay in limbo until someone from LAN fishes them out. He said the transfer will not auto-cancel if it's not succesful, and there's no way to just cancel the whole thing.

So I'm going to dive into LAN's customer service and see if I can get it resolved that way. I'll let you all know if I have any luck.

Wow - I was about to tranfer 40K SPG points to LAN but will hold off for now.

After waiting a full 30 days since I initiated the transfer, I reached a knowledgeable LAN agent and spent over 30 minutes on the phone trying to sort this out. She said that Starwood transfers points to LAN twice a month, and that it can take up to 30 days for points to get from Starwood to LAN. Then, "another department" at LAN needs up to 30 additional days to credit the points because "there's a process".

The agent asked me to provide confirmation of the transfer, which I did immediately by forwarding the transfer confirmation email from Starwood.

She then spoke to the mysterious "other department" and provided me with a case number, saying that I should received the points within one week.

Will post again when I learn something new.

She said that Starwood transfers points to LAN twice a month, and that it can take up to 30 days for points to get from Starwood to LAN. Then, "another department" at LAN needs up to 30 additional days to credit the points because "there's a process".
Translation: The data is coming to LAN in some bulk format (comma-delimited spreadsheet data??). Someone, whose has this allocated as just a tiny part of their job function, and who thus can do it only occasionally, processes this builk format once in a while, maybe as rarely as once a month. (That, in turn, could be because too many of their other partners only transfer once a month, even if SPG transfers twice a month.)

Remember, LAN doesn't live in the US FFP world where perhaps more miles are earned through a boatload of partner activiites (credit cards, hotels, car rentals, shopping, dining programs, etc, etc) than from flying. So I wouldn't expect it to have as advanced an infrastructure in place for accepting miles (kms) from zillions of other partners on a massive volume scale.

Yes, LAN has mileage-earning partners, but the data flow from their partners is way less than the data flow from partners to, say, AA, and thus the resources dedicated to processing that data are way more meager than at, say, AA.

The agent asked me to provide confirmation of the transfer, which I did immediately by forwarding the transfer confirmation email from Starwood.

She then spoke to the mysterious "other department" and provided me with a case number, saying that I should received the points within one week.

Will post again when I learn something new.

I was also quoted the 60 day maximum from LAN. The names on the account now match, which should help. In a few days we will hit the 30 day SPG limit. From everything SPG has told me, the points will simply remain in limbo until LAN fishes them out - i.e. there is no canceling the transaction. Has anyone had any luck getting the starpoints refunded? I never would have initiated the transfer had I known it was going to take two months (or more).

I never would have initiated the transfer had I known it was going to take two months (or more).

Agreed. Perhaps we should collectively contact SPG Insider here on FT and see if he can push the issue from SPG's side?

Agreed. Perhaps we should collectively contact SPG Insider here on FT and see if he can push the issue from SPG's side?
Did you read my description (a few posts above) about how this likely works? This is not typically done with straightfowrad modern technology. Some specialist at LAN has to "decode" what SPG sent them, but quite likely is only scheduled to do that once a month or whatever.

I don't understand what SPG could do? They've sent the miles (kms) on to LAN already. The holdup is at the LAN end (quite possibly due to inadequate staffing). I'm clear on what you expect SPG to do, except update its info to clarify than LAN takes forever. (That'll help people in the future, but I don't how it'll help you.) They certainly don't have the authority to ask LAN to reprioritize partner miles processing to be done more often.

And again, the only way to have partner processing done "faster" is to have it done "more often". It's the interval between batches of processing that is the main problem in such cases, not a "speed" of processing per se.

Did you read my description (a few posts above) about how this likely works?



Don't be condescending. Of course I read it.




I don't understand what SPG could do?

For starters, SPG could contact their counterparts at LAN, people that you or I would never get to speak to. They can explain that this is unacceptable, and exert their influence to have a few members (those of us listed above) processed with priority. If LAN is reluctant, SPG could threaten to end the partnership.... honestly, I can easily see SPG doing that. If LAN cannot process these in a timely fashion, and refuses to provide customer support, our ire will be directed at SPG, historically a very customer-oriented company. SPG may not want to risk irritating their customers and would consider just dropping LAN as a partner rather than deal with the consequences. The question is, does LAN care? Hard to say.

Furthermore, the slow posting is a rather recent issue. Plenty of old threads indicate SPG->LAN transfers took about 10 days. Clearly something changed. SPG is in a prime position to explore this.

Now tell me -- what skin do you have in the game? I don't see that you have any pending transfers to LAN. If you don't have a horse in the race, suggest you offer support to those that do.

If LAN is reluctant, SPG could threaten to end the partnership.... honestly, I can easily see SPG doing that.

[...]

Now tell me -- what skin do you have in the game? I don't see that you have any pending transfers to LAN. If you don't have a horse in the race, suggest you offer support to those that do.
What you suggested might happen (the part i quoted) is exactly what I fear. I don't have a presernt transfer in progress, and I don't have an immediate need to transfer now, but I could very well want to transfer in the future. If people sit back and wait, or only ask SPG to document that it can take 2 months, then I'm ok with that. If people complain to SPG so loudly that SPG simply yanks the plug, then I'm not ok with that.

And thus the fine line: Is it possible (and if so how) to help the situation (other than through patience) without risking the transfer conduit being taken out of existence?

I'm all for fixing the situation, but in my mind the most realistic fixes are on the order of "how do SPG & LAN make it work better in the future", rather than necessarily "divine intervention" to make a miracle happen right this instant. (I suspect that SPG may not offhand have a way to get things expedited on what has been sent already, but may have a way to see if a better way of transferring could set up in the future.)

By the way, in case you didn't realize, per the explanation that someone got over the phone, this is not likely an SPG-specific problem. This seems like it would also happen if transferring to LAN from any other parner. (Ie, even if a partner transferred once a day, if LAN still has another month after that "because there's a proces", then it seems that no one will be able to do better than SPG, until the LAN end of it is improved.)

What you suggested might happen (the part i quoted) is exactly what I fear. I don't have a presernt transfer in progress, and I don't have an immediate need to transfer now, but I could very well want to transfer in the future.

So you would be fine with transferring SPG points to LAN, not knowing if it takes 2 months or 2 years???? :rolleyes:

I don't think that anyone here really knows what is going on, but your posts have an incredible amount of speculation in them that you posit as fact. I'm merely saying that SPG may well be best positioned to examine this and help LAN come up with a better solution, both now and in the future.

So you would be fine with transferring SPG points to LAN, not knowing if it takes 2 months or 2 years???? :rolleyes:
Has anyone even waited the full 2 months / 60 days yet? :confused:

All I see in this thread is people complaining that it will take that long, not complaining that it has taken longer than that and they still don't see their LAN kms.

So your silly question seems premature to me.

I'm merely saying that SPG may well be best positioned to examine this and help LAN come up with a better solution, both now and in the future.
I actually agree you on at least "in the future". I'm pessimistic as to how quickly they can make LAN start moving way faster. I hope for y'all that they can, but I suspect that LAN has to reorgnanize who does what when to achieve that.

(I do not know what the economy is like where LANPASS has its processing center. If it were in the parts of the world where the economy has been faltering, I would guess that maybe it's gotten worse because they lost whoever was doing it "more fulltime" before and now someone who has had this added to an "endless" series of existing tasks has to squeeze it in where they can. And when that happens, it's often easier for such an employee to do a bigger amount of work in one bigger chunk occasionally rather than the same amount of work spread into smaller chunks done more often. I know that's happened in several cases at the company I work at. Our processes have slowed, sometimes radically, compared to before the economic downturn, because staff have been pared, and where one person did a particular process daily before, another person now has that as a very secondary function, and "batches" it only once in a while.)

Has anyone even waited the full 2 months / 60 days yet? :confused:

All I see in this thread is people complaining that it will take that long, not complaining that it has taken longer than that and they still don't see their LAN kms.

So your silly question seems premature to me.



I just went back and read the confirmation email from SPG. It says to allow 2-4 weeks for the transfer. I'm at 3+ weeks now. And somebody up-thread has been waiting since the end of December. Are you satisfied that these are very real concerns? And I pose the question AGAIN -- just how long do you think is acceptable? If you knew it would take 2 months, would you do the transfer? What about 2 years?

I have refrained from officially complaining until I hit the 4 week mark. But next week.....

Just to add a little in the more general overview. Not just this example, but LAN has several processes that take 5-6 weeks and not unusual to get an email reply that they will reply in this time frame. Not good. Of course this is one reason behind the LAN sucks when it comes to customer service on the ground complaint. So I support any adventure into getting them to fix this one... Then the next one... So maybe they will wake up and improve ground service. Labour is cheap in SA (just look at the many check in agents, gate agents, baggage guys etc.) but maybe techno guys are a bit harder to find and cost more.

My SPG-> LAN transfer showed up today!

It took 3.5 weeks.

Given that this is within the 2-4 week guidance published by SPG, I will acknowledge that LAN met the requirement.

I will say that it would be great for SPG to work with their partners to make these transfers instant (or at least a LOT faster) as that would make SPG more competitive with AMEX MR and Chase UR points. But for now, at least in my case, the transfer occurred within the published timeframe.

Please check your balances and report back!

As the initiator of this thread, I regret to inform everyone that LAN has still not processed my transfer from SPG that I initiated on December 23. Their call center refers my inquiries to their Operations Dept. and they don't provide timelines other than "as soon as we know."

Today, I learned from SPG that LAN redeemed the points on January 1. Despite providing LAN with the SPG-LAN order number that I received from Starwood, LAN was unable to help and sent my request to the "other department" for a third time.

Both SPG and LAN say that they are "investigating." After 38 days, I have little confidence that this transfer will be processed.

Will update again if this is resolved.

As the initiator of this thread, I regret to inform everyone that LAN has still not processed my transfer from SPG that I initiated on January 23. Their call center refers my inquiries to their Operations Dept. and they don't provide timelines other than "as soon as we know."

Your OP says December 23. Just want to clarify.

And I'm sorry to hear that yours did not go through on the last sweep.

I will say that it would be great for SPG to work with their partners to make these transfers instant (or at least a LOT faster) as that would make SPG more competitive with AMEX MR and Chase UR points. But for now, at least in my case, the transfer occurred within the published timeframe.
Do you know that AMEX MR transfers to LAN are happening any quicker now? (It appears that even SPG to LAN transfers went quicker iin the past, so anecdotes from back then about AMEX MR transfers to LAN might not be valid any more today.)

And you can't transfer from Chase UR to LAN, can you?

Chase UR can transfer fast because it only transfers to airline/hotel partners who also use Chase cards. So it can use the same mechanism (though I don't know if it does) that those airlines/hotels use to get miles/points from their own Chase statements "instantly" to get UR points to them "instantly".

But Amex MR and Diners Club and SPG are in a different situation. They allow transfers to airlines like LAN who have no other relationship with them other than points transfer or poitns earnings. I would not necessarily expect these to be as "instant" as the ones they share other things with. (For example, I wouldn't be surprised if for the same reason Amex MR may be able to do "instant" transfers to Delta because they can use the mechanism they have to transfer "istantly" from Delta Amex card statements to Delta. Smae with Amex and HHonors, since Amex issues an HHonors card.)

But LAN uses a different bank (US Bank) than any of these programs have. US Bank does have its own points program FlexPerks, but AFAIK it doesn't allow transfer to LAN or anywhere else, only using those points through a specific travel booking engine.

Oh, and that brings up a point: Do kms earned through the US Bank LAN Visa card post as "instantly" as they should (within a day or two of the statement being issued) to your LAN account? Or are they similarly delayed weeks?

My mistake. Yes, it was December 23. Editing post to correct this.

I also transferred my SPG points on December 23rd, 2011 (I'm a different person than the OP) and still haven't received anything.

The price for the flights I wanted more than doubled from what they were in late December, but I had no choice as LAN has continued to screw around and not provide an answer. At this point, they've already cost me nearly $2000 ($3000 if I include the cost of the original flights, since they were supposed to be free with points) and neither SPG nor LAN knows what's going on.

LAN has been known to be quite irresponsive to customer claims; their agents simply follow guidelines and patience is a prerequisite to deal with LAN.

SPG has no fault in this deal; Once points have been transferred to LAN, it is with LAN to sort them out and have them credited.

I would strongly suggest those inclined to mutually find others who can assist them redeeming tickets by letting them use your SPG points. Or, have plenty of time in advance for LAN to sort issues out.

In my experience, there is no point in proving to LAN you are right, as it does not expedite any outcome.


Cheers,

SPG has no fault in this deal; Once points have been transferred to LAN, it is with LAN to sort them out and have them credited.

I still think this is quite incorrect. SPG took my points and transfered them to a partner. If the points don't arrive on time or at all, even though we all know LAN is at fault, it's SPG who needs to work to correct the situation if LAN refuses. SPG has a contract with LAN, not me. SPG has internal contacts with LAN, not me. SPG needs to be on top of its partners.

That said, my transfer from January 5 arrived exactly one month later. I'm irritated it took so long (and lost availability on my preferred flights in the process), but given the 2-4 week guidance, I acknowledge that I can't complain.

I still think this is quite incorrect. SPG took my points and transfered them to a partner. If the points don't arrive on time or at all, even though we all know LAN is at fault, it's SPG who needs to work to correct the situation if LAN refuses. SPG has a contract with LAN, not me. SPG has internal contacts with LAN, not me. SPG needs to be on top of its partners.

That said, my transfer from January 5 arrived exactly one month later. I'm irritated it took so long (and lost availability on my preferred flights in the process), but given the 2-4 week guidance, I acknowledge that I can't complain.

While I understand your frustration and agree they are partners - facts have proven LAN to be slow and rather messy in their backoffice operations.

SPG could either now state points transferred ta LAN may be credited in 120 days or simply sever the partnership. SPG cannot do much when their partners do not care less.

SPG could either now state points transferred ta LAN may be credited in 120 days or simply sever the partnership. SPG cannot do much when their partners do not care less.

Agree 100%. My only point is as a consumer, my point of contact is SPG, not LAN and (even though it's clearly not their fault) SPG has to figure out a solution. The ones you mention above are distateful, but at least an attempt.

Seeing as your home airport is GRU, I assume we share the same home base. The passing of the buck in this part of the world is legendary, and totally contrary to the American perspective. To that end, I am on a one-man mission to change the entire continent. Results have been mixed.

Abraços,

idayvuelta

I still think this is quite incorrect. SPG took my points and transfered them to a partner. If the points don't arrive on time or at all, even though we all know LAN is at fault, it's SPG who needs to work to correct the situation if LAN refuses. SPG has a contract with LAN, not me. SPG has internal contacts with LAN, not me. SPG needs to be on top of its partners.


Agree completely!


That said, my transfer from January 5 arrived exactly one month later. I'm irritated it took so long (and lost availability on my preferred flights in the process), but given the 2-4 week guidance, I acknowledge that I can't complain.

I'm in the opposite situation. The award pricing of my flights actually went DOWN in the extra 3 weeks it took for the points to appear! (LAN's award pricing on certain routes seems to have more volatility than the S&P500!) So I actually transferred 1000 extra SPG points than I needed..... I want to be really mad about this, but, well, I got over it. :p

my transfer from January 5 arrived exactly one month later. I'm irritated it took so long (and lost availability on my preferred flights in the process), but given the 2-4 week guidance, I acknowledge that I can't complain.

The award pricing of my flights actually went DOWN in the extra 3 weeks it took for the points to appear! (LAN's award pricing on certain routes seems to have more volatility than the S&P500!) So I actually transferred 1000 extra SPG points than I needed..... I want to be really mad about this, but, well, I got over it. :p
But wouldn't the same thing have happened if the transfer had taken 2.5 weeks faster but you had made the transfer 2.5 weeks later?

It seems to me that as long as it takes even just a few days for a transfer to take place, it's possible to run into an award pricing change (one way or the other) or an award availability change (for the worse), although obviously it's more likely the longer the transfer takes.

That risk is always the downside of keeping points elsewhere and counting on transferring them at the last minute. (I understand there are also benefits to that strategy, I'm just pointing out that there's also this exact risk too, even without long delays.)

But wouldn't the same thing have happened if the transfer had taken 2.5 weeks faster but you had made the transfer 2.5 weeks later?


This makes no sense.

Before making a point transfer, most FTers will verify that the flights they want exist, and at what award level. Then they'll determine how many points to transfer based on this information. If the number of miles required for their itinerary goes up before the transfer completes, they will be unhappy. I would guess that on normal airlines, the odds of award pricing going up (or more likely inventory just disappearing) is more likely than award pricing going down.

Look, we get it. You are going to defend LAN repeatedly. Would you like to defend their award pricing next? There were a series of days in January where AEP-IGR was bouncing by 25% or more per day. And what's with all the odd-ball award pricing anyway? Flights ranged from 10k kms to 20 kms with various 13k, 15k, 18k, etc, in between. Even Delta doesn't have that many award levels!!!!

Look, we get it. You are going to defend LAN repeatedly. Would you like to defend their award pricing next? There were a series of days in January where AEP-IGR was bouncing by 25% or more per day. And what's with all the odd-ball award pricing anyway? Flights ranged from 10k kms to 20 kms with various 13k, 15k, 18k, etc, in between. Even Delta doesn't have that many award levels!!!!
You're confusing my attempts to understand LAN with "defending" them. My goal was simply getting and providing infomration. Haven't you heard of the concept that "the devil you know is better than the devil you don't know"?

I am well familar with LAN's endless IT issues regarding not just award pricing, but the same awards being freely available one day, completey gone the next, then all coming back a few days later. I am even more familar with LAN's ridiculous limitations on not being able to book AEP-IGR one way as an award (at all), or an open jaw such as IGR-AEP-SLA (online anyway).

But that's not what this thread about! I though there were already plenty of threads about LAN's IT issues including award booking...

This makes no sense.

Before making a point transfer, most FTers will verify that the flights they want exist, and at what award level. Then they'll determine how many points to transfer based on this information. If the number of miles required for their itinerary goes up before the transfer completes, they will be unhappy. I would guess that on normal airlines, the odds of award pricing going up (or more likely inventory just disappearing) is more likely than award pricing going down.
It does make sense because that's what would have happened (had only the tming of both your transfer request and the transfer delay changed, with nothing else changed).

Now, maybe the fact that their award prices go down is not as likely to have happened elsehwere in the airline world, but it is actually much more likely to happen in the hotel world. (And there are people who transfer from Membership Rewards or Club Rewards to hotels at the last minute to get a particular room just as there are people who transfer from hotel programs to airlines at the last mintue to get a paritulcar flight.)

You appear to be coming from a standpoint of SPG to airlines being the only transfer there is, but thee's a wider sphere of transfers that other people out there do.

And hotel points values fluctuate even wilder (40k to 8k to 40k to 8k to 40k a night in Rome, for example) in the Choice Hotels program than I think in the LAN program. (The LAN fluctuation wasn't by a factor of 5, was it?)

So while LAN may be the only airline that you know that does this, I'm familiar with a hotel program that does the same thing, so have come to accept it as a fact of life. Somtimes I gain from it, sometimes I lose from it. But the more I understand it, the better chance I have of gaining from it. So my goal is to understand it, more than to ridicule it...

And what's with all the odd-ball award pricing anyway? Flights ranged from 10k kms to 20 kms with various 13k, 15k, 18k, etc, in between. Even Delta doesn't have that many award levels!!!!

LAN used to have 3 award levels but now the website will only mention that the lowest level ("Classic") is the minimum (no mention of a maximum or number of levels/increments).

I am even more familar with LAN's ridiculous limitations on not being able to book AEP-IGR one way as an award (at all), or an open jaw such as IGR-AEP-SLA (online anyway).

We've mentioned a way to do this before (price it as a regular ticket and then change the address from "compra" to "cobro_premio"). There is a second way of doing this mentioned here (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/lan-lanpass/1299839-no-more-tricking-one-way-awards-two-segments.html).

I'm the OP for this thread and can now report that the transfer was processed in 53 days, with no apologies from either LAN or SPG. I will advise SPG that they should change their documentation to reflect realistic timelines. After waiting over 40 days, I eventually had to give up and buy a ticket. I completed my YYZ-LGA round trip yesterday and am now stuck with 16,000 km in my LANpass account with no plans to take a short haul before they expire.

Torontojay;

I am so sorry that you had to go thru this. However, the rest of us FT'ers appreciate you documenting this horendous procedure, so that we can avoid the same mistake, or at least be prepared for the looooong wait if for some reason we need to transfer some SPG points to LAN. I was thinking of doing the same for an upcoming SA trip, but will use BA miles and/or cash instead. Thanks.

Maybe it was good luck or good timing, but I transferred SPG points on May 29 to my LAN account and they showed up on 06/05! Exactly one week!