Cruises - Costa Concordia Sinks!

Well, partially submerged anyway. It appears she ran aground off Tuscany and all 4,200 passengers had to be avacuated. The Captain brought teh ship into shallow water where she has partially sunk. Six fatalities reported.
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2012/01/13/world/europe/AP-EU-Italy-Cruise-Aground.html?_r=1&hp

Image: http://www.giglionews.it/2010022440919/webcam/isola-del-giglio/webcam-giglio-porto-panoramica.html

http://www.giglionews.com/isoladelgiglio_porto.jpg?1326512466371

The ship is now laying on it's side, just a few hundred feet off shore. Reports are 8 dead now. This ship is the sister ship to the Carnival Splendor (Carnival Corp owns both Carnival and Costa, as well as several other lines), which was the ship that lost power off Mexico in the fall of 2010.

Absolutely horrific incident. Will have a big impact on the cruising industry, and may see people start to take an interest in who and how these ships are operated.

I'm at a complete loss for how this could happen! With all the sophisticated navigational equipment, really, how? Absolutely horrifying.

I don't cruise very much. i was on a Costa ship about three years ago and the boarding process was a shambles. People were crammed into a small building for check in. At one point, the first floor was so congested that people couldn't get off the down escalator from the second floor (where all the check in procedures were). People were falling into each other. And people were still getting on the escalator because they couldn't see what was happening at the bottom. I was not impressed and decided never to get on another Costa ship.

My condolences to the families of those who didn't make it. I hope that those who are missing are just unaccounted for.

Before the crew is condemned, I find this most interesting:

An explosion heard by some of the passengers on board may have been caused by a phenomenon known as “harmonic interference”, according to Malcolm Latarche, the editor of the global shipping magazine IHS Fairplay Solutions.

Mr Latarche said that the ship was powered by a bank of six diesel-electric engines which effectively worked as an on-board power station designed to supply electricity to all parts of the vessel.

But like power stations on land, the engines are prone to electrical surges and troughs caused by “harmonic interference”.

Mr Latarche added: “From the reports I have seen it seems there was an explosion followed by a blackout which could have been caused by a power surge. There are various back-up systems in place on all ships but they may have failed also."

Mr Latarche said it was possible the cruise ship experienced the same problem that saw the Queen Mary 2 (QM2) lose power in September 2010 as she was approaching Barcelona.

He continued: “Once you have a problem with the electric supply to the ship’s main propulsion motors that could lead to a problem with steering. Once you are in a position where you cannot control a ship's speed and direction you have a problem until you can get those systems back on line. It seems that this may have happened quite close to land, in shallow water. When you can’t steer you are going to run aground and hit rocks at some point.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/9015103/Cruise-disaster-what-could-have-caused-the-accident.html

Before the crew is condemned, I find this most interesting:



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/9015103/Cruise-disaster-what-could-have-caused-the-accident.html

There is lots of speculation about stuff like that, because as I mentioned above, this ship is the sister ship to the Carnival ship that had some sort of explosion/fire, and lost power in the fall of 2010 and had the US Navy provide assistance.

I'm at a complete loss for how this could happen! With all the sophisticated navigational equipment, really, how? Absolutely horrifying.

Automation can actually make things worse if no one is minding the store and if there is not sufficient training and practice on how to accomplish graceful degradation when there is a glitch or something goes haywire.

Some years ago there was a cruise ship that ran aground around Martha's Vineyard. After leaving the Bahamas or Bermuda, the crew set the autopilot on a course direct to their destination. Sometime later, a painter inadvertently busted the connection to the satellite antenna on the mast. The ship could longer do real time position updates so reverted to dead reckoning. The crew did not notice the glitch. Over time the course was off enough to create the grounding.

When marine radars that could see through fog became commonplace, maritime accidents increased since the crew thought they were always safe.

Will be interested to see how this one plays out.

It seems inconceivable that a cruise ship can go aground on a regular route. These routes must have been planned to incredible detail and for it to be down to human error just seems too unbelievable.

My condolences to everyone struck by this tragedy, I hope that the missing people are safely on shore somewhere.

I have been on a costa crociere cruise from civita vecchia to savona too.

Bloomberg:

Today, the ship’s captain, Schettino, was detained and accused of manslaughter, shipwreck and abandoning ship, Italy’s Ansa news service reported, citing Francesco Verusio, the prosecutor in the city of Grosseto.

The accident was due to a “reckless maneuver” as the ship was too close to the island, Ansa reported, citing Verusio. A Costa Crociere spokesman didn’t answer calls to his mobile phone and didn’t respond to a text message by Bloomberg News seeking a comment on the Ansa report.

Which may or may not be true, Italian news agencies print first, verify later.

The "reckless maneuver" in question appear to be the fact that the ship was NOT on a regular route.

WSJ reports
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204542404577160490967763410.html?m od=WSJ_hp_MIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsTop
Antonio Belardo, a local official, said the ship deviated from its "usual" route in order to give passengers a view of Giglio's port. That meant navigating a strait, so that the ship could skirt a stretch of the small island's coastline that faces mainland Italy.

Gianni Onorato, managing director of Carnival Corp.'s Costa Cruises, which operated the ship, told reporters on Saturday that the course taken by the ship Friday evening was "not a defined route for passing Giglio." However, Mr. Onorato said it would be "incorrect to say the ship was off course," adding that he was unaware of all of the possible routes available to the captain at the time.

What's going to be problematic is that

1) emergency drills weren't scheduled promptly
2) lifeboats weren't released promptly

no drill? arent they legally required? only in US?

Over on CruiseCritic I read that international cruising regs require only that the lifeboat drill happen within 24 hours of setting sail. The ship sailed at 7:30 pm and lifeboat drill was set for 5pm the next day.

I have not cruised a lot, but on each one, lifeboat drill has occurred prior to sail away. There was a roll call, and those who did not attend reportedly had to go to a "make up class." For good reason, obviously.

It seems inconceivable that a cruise ship can go aground on a regular route.

My condolences to everyone struck by this tragedy.

+1

I question the idea that they intentionally went close to this island for the view, only because it was already dark when they left Civi, and the accident happened a couple hours later.

What I am curious about, and haven't seen anything said about yet, is where did the accident happen in relation to where the ship is now resting. If the captain, as reported, delayed the evacuation in order to head closer to the port, I wonder how much time was lost for that? I know there's precedent with the Monarch of the Seas grounding in St Maarten after hitting the reef, but it seems that was valuable time lost for an evacuation when that manoever is basically made to attempt to save the ship itself. Also, I'm no physics major or anything, so I wonder why it is that the ship had the hole in the port side and ended up listing and ultimately capsizing to the starboard side?

Apparently some people have been located still on board and rescuers are trying to get to them. I wonder why there is almost no coverage of this rescue attempt on US television?

My thoughts are with the people involved. I cruise often and was recently nearby. Captains sometimes try to bring ships closer to interesting sites - volcanos come to mind. That's likely over.

Over on CruiseCritic I read that international cruising regs require only that the lifeboat drill happen within 24 hours of setting sail. The ship sailed at 7:30 pm and lifeboat drill was set for 5pm the next day.

I would guess that it was already dark, and to do the drill in the dark would not be very effective, and there was dinner and all the rest. I would expect they may revisit the regulations after this


Apparently some people have been located still on board and rescuers are trying to get to them. I wonder why there is almost no coverage of this rescue attempt on US television?

It's not a US liner. If it was, it would be live coverage, but with Miss America, football, etc it's just not news. The US has an incredibly sad view of what news is.

I would guess that it was already dark, and to do the drill in the dark would not be very effective, and there was dinner and all the rest. I would expect they may revisit the regulations after this




It's not a US liner. If it was, it would be live coverage, but with Miss America, football, etc it's just not news. The US has an incredibly sad view of what news is.

No kidding. Even on these boards, the Carnival Splendor, or Royal Caribbean calling on Haiti after the earthquake were OMNI topics, not buried in this forum.

CNN is showing reruns. Reportedly there were 140 Americans on that ship. There were no Americans in the Chile mine and the Today show was there. Sorry, just frustrated at the lack of coverage. A honeymooning couple was reportedly just rescued from the ship.

Also, I'm no physics major or anything, so I wonder why it is that the ship had the hole in the port side and ended up listing and ultimately capsizing to the starboard side?It depends on how the internal bulkheads held up and where the water accumulated.

Over on CruiseCritic ... international cruising regs require only that ... drill ... within 24 hours of setting sail. The ship sailed at 7:30 pm and lifeboat drill was set for 5pm the next day.

I have not cruised a lot, but ... lifeboat drill ... prior to sail away ... a roll call, and those who did not attend reportedly had ... a "make up class."

Cruiselines sailing to/from US waters are pretty strict & we've been on at least 2 with Coast Guard personnel onboard running special inspections, as the ship's officers & crews take them seriously. But let's face it, like frequent airline pax familiar with the pre-flight safety demo/videos, many of us ignore or mentally skipped it. Even US cruises had been allowed to skip a few steps, we've done cruises in the last year & we did not have to grab our life vests & report to muster stations (some of them being in the dining room, theater & not necessary near where the lifeboats are) and the crew did it quickly as EVERYONE wanted a quick dismissal to get back to their cabin, unpack & get ready for the casino, bar, dinner or what not.

What seemed problematic too is that the ship did not issue a distress or Mayday call early on as it began to take in water - additional help from nearby maritime interest could've been dispatched quicker than what we now know. (hindsight being mostly 20:20 with us as backseat driver/navigator of the sea) If the general alarm was sounded but the pax (at least some of them) aren't familiar with what to do in the confusion on what to do - return to the statement or go directly to their assigned muster stations - not knowing where & how to best evacuate - with the ship began to go sideway & power going out, etc.

Some of the reports said the passengers're told to go to one ship of the ship and subsequently shifted again to the opposite end as more sea water came in, it could've adversely affected the overall stabliity of the ship even in those shallow depth near the shorelines.

Modern cruise ships are designed with more than enough lifeboats & crafts unlike the Titanic days. The pictures shown on TV/news showed that only motorized lifeboats from one side of the liner made it to the waterline but 2 inflated rubber boats did not on the same side (everything on the opposite side remained high up & apparently never launched.)

Our thoughts & prayers are with the pax & crews as the search, rescue & recovery continue in the search for the missing or unaccounted ones.

Cruiselines sailing to/from US waters are pretty strict & we've been on at least 2 with Coast Guard personnel onboard running special inspections, as the ship's officers & crews take them seriously. But let's face it, like frequent airline pax familiar with the pre-flight safety demo/videos, many of us ignore or mentally skipped it. Even US cruises had been allowed to skip a few steps, we've done cruises in the last year & we did not have to grab our life vests & report to muster stations (some of them being in the dining room, theater & not necessary near where the lifeboats are) and the crew did it quickly as EVERYONE wanted a quick dismissal to get back to their cabin, unpack & get ready for the casino, bar, dinner or what not.

What seemed problematic too is that the ship did not issue a distress or Mayday call early on as it began to take in water - additional help from nearby maritime interest could've been dispatched quicker than what we now know. (hindsight being mostly 20:20 with us as backseat driver/navigator of the sea) If the general alarm was sounded but the pax (at least some of them) aren't familiar with what to do in the confusion on what to do - return to the statement or go directly to their assigned muster stations - not knowing where & how to best evacuate - with the ship began to go sideway & power going out, etc.

Some of the reports said the passengers're told to go to one ship of the ship and subsequently shifted again to the opposite end as more sea water came in, it could've adversely affected the overall stabliity of the ship even in those shallow depth near the shorelines.

Modern cruise ships are designed with more than enough lifeboats & crafts unlike the Titanic days. The pictures shown on TV/news showed that only motorized lifeboats from one side of the liner made it to the waterline but 2 inflated rubber boats did not on the same side (everything on the opposite side remained high up & apparently never launched.)

Our thoughts & prayers are with the pax & crews as the search, rescue & recovery continue in the search for the missing or unaccounted ones.

This pic (http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02109/Inclinata_2109032b.jpg) shows that most of the starboard lifeboats were launched before the ship capsized on that side.

As to muster drills, Princess generally does theirs in lounges and theaters along deck 7. The reason they do this instead of crowding people out on deck, is they can more orderly load the lifeboats by having people in the lounges and taking them out to the boats as needed. The boats are all on deck 7 (hanging in front of the cabins on deck 8 actually) and get lowered to the deck 7 rail for boarding. The lounges all have emergency exits (that we don't normally see) going directly out on to the promenade deck where the boats will be ready for boarding.

It's not a US liner. If it was, it would be live coverage, but with Miss America, football, etc it's just not news. The US has an incredibly sad view of what news is.As was mentioned already, there was enormous worldwide coverage of the Chilean mine collapse and rescue. The captain is accused of abandoning his ship leaving people to die. Disgusting. :td:

Then there is the crew who were said by the survivors to appear to be untrained.

Survivors described a terrifying chaos in which people fought over life vests and lifeboats were stuck and unusable, while hundreds of people jumped into the icy winter waters and reached the shore on their own or were picked up by boats called to the scene. Crew members did not appear well-trained to act in an emergency, many passengers said.

The LA Times also reports that an Italian crewman was recently rescued in a "complicated" effort to bring him to safety. There are 17 people still not accounted for.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/world_now/2012/01/another-survivor-picked-up-from-wrecked-cruise-liner-as-rescue-efforts-continue.html

21 pictures: http://framework.latimes.com/2012/01/14/cruise-ship-runs-aground-off-italy/#/0

Two more elderly victims were found dead at the ship's meeting point. :(
It is unfortunately possible some of the remaining 17 missing passengers+crew are held captive in airlocks in the partially submerged ship.

The most probable cause of this accident is a navigational error. The size of the ship is not a determining factor in its ability to sink, as we know already from the times of the Titanic. An impact on a side (instead of from the front) means that watertight compartments may not be that effective. I'm curious to know how they worked anyway.

Several further questions remain unanswered:

why did the ship choose an unusual route
where exactly did the first impact happen
how well was the crew trained in handling such emergencies
why did the ship not send the distress signal
who was really in charge of navigating the ship when the accident
happened?


Unlike what the shipping company wants us to believe, the conditions in this accident were rather good: the sea was calm and warm (at least compared to Baltic Sea standards), the waters were shallow, there was an inhabited island close-by, help was easily obtained etc.

Having a drill is a very good thing to do and it show that the U.S. takes sea safety seriously. It is not commonplace where I live (by the Baltic Sea) where cruises typically take a little more than 24 hours and people often go on these cruises several times per year. On the other hand having your life west in the cabin is something I just can't understand. On all the Baltic ferries, the life wests are easily obtained by the rescue points. This eliminates having to struggle your way to your cabin and back in an emergency situation. I've understood that the most modern cruise liners in the Caribbean, like the Oasis of the Seas, have a similar setup, though.

Several further questions remain unanswered:

where exactly did the first impact happen
Judging by the rock still embedded in the hull, the question of "where" should be pretty straightforward.

Judging by the rock still embedded in the hull, the question of "where" should be pretty straightforward.
My thoughts as well, but the captain claims he was able to steer the ship from deep water to shallow waters, indicating that the first impact happened somewhere further off-shore. Currently I don't find this explanation very probable either.

Spanish media (www.elmundo.es) reporting stories from the 188 Spaniards on board (one still missing):

At dinner: In spite of the almighty crash with plates, chairs and passengers thrown onto the floor, the Captain announced an “electrical problem” that “was being fixed”; all the lights went out in the dining room and when the emergency lighting came on, all the waiters had disappeared.

Timing: Two hours went by between the crash and the order to evacuate. Passengers were then told to head to deck 9, although the lifeboats were on deck 4.

Disorder and Chaos: When the order came to abandon ship, passengers were trampled by crew members who commandeered lifeboats for themselves and set off from the ship.

Captain and First Officer: abandoned the ship two hours before the last (known) passenger was taken off. Both have been arrested.

Lawsuits: Spanish passengers are already preparing lawsuits against the cruise line.

Sounds to me like Costa Cruises has some explaining to do, and then some training for ships’ personnel.

Timing: Two hours went by between the crash and the order to evacuate.
That does give some credibility to the claim that the ship was steered closer to the shore first. At the same time it makes it incredible that they did not send the distress signal.

From the AFP:

Costa 'showboating' may have caused Italy disaster

A risky practice by cruise ships of close-passing the island of Giglio in a foghorn-blasting salute to the local population appears to have contributed to the Costa Concordia disaster, officials and witnesses said on Sunday.
....
Some witnesses said the ship was indulging the local population with a spectacular parade past the island in what is known locally as an "inchino" or reverent bow, with its upper decks ablaze with light as many of the passengers sat down to dinner.

Adding weight to the theory, the daily La Stampa on Sunday published a letter dated last August in which Giglio's mayor Sergio Ortelli thanked the Concordia's captain for the "incredible spectacle" of a previous close pass.

The mayor told journalists on the island on Saturday that the normal route for cruise ships heading north from the port of Civitavecchia near Rome takes them to within three to five kilometres (1.8 to 3.1 miles) of Giglio. "Many of them pass close to Giglio to salute the local population with blasts from their sirens."....http://www.emirates247.com/news/world/costa-showboating-may-have-caused-italy-disaster-2012-01-15-1.437735

I suspect muster drills are about to get much more serious, a good thing IMHO. They are a hassle, but it could have made this evacuation much smoother.

I'm trying to decide whether to buy 100 shares of CCL on Tuesday after it tanks. Costa itself may very well disappear after this, but CCL should remain essentially strong.

The more you read, the more the stories I've heard about Costa over the years make more and more sense.

From ft.com


Still prosecutors also want to know why the captain only issued an SOS and evacuation order about one hour after first hitting the submerged rocks that tore a 70 metre gash in the side of the hull, and how the port captain on Giglio was first alerted to the nature of the disaster by passengers using their mobile telephones while the captain had reported only an electrical fault.

Though they do give the Captain much credit for bringing it closer to shore so that it did not go under where it was.

One can only hope they can review the security cameras and the rest and learn from this so it can't possibly happen again.

It's amazing that the first the port captain heard about it was from passengers.

The speculation that the captain was more concerned about potential losses to his employer than the safety of his passengers appear a compelling case to me.

Costa Cruises apparently issued a new statement pretty much blaming the captain. Their web server is currently "too busy" so I can't read it.

Edit- The statement is now available and here is the relevant excerpt:

"We are working with investigators to find out precisely what went wrong aboard the Costa Concordia. While the investigation is ongoing, preliminary indications are that there may have been significant human error on the part of the ship’s Master, Captain Francesco Schettino, which resulted in these grave consequences. The route of the vessel appears to have been too close to the shore, and the Captain’s judgment in handling the emergency appears to have not followed standard Costa procedures."

"preliminary indications are that there may have been significant human error on the part of the ship’s Master, Captain Francesco Schettino, which resulted in these grave consequences."
Wow. Unbelievable that they've thrown him to the sharks, so to speak, when the investigation has hardly even started.

Here is a little bit longer version:
We are working with investigators to find out precisely what went wrong aboard the Costa Concordia. While the investigation is ongoing, preliminary indications are that there may have been significant human error on the part of the ship’s Master, Captain Francesco Schettino, which resulted in these grave consequences. The route of the vessel appears to have been too close to the shore, and the Captain’s judgment in handling the emergency appears to have not followed standard Costa procedures. We are aware that the lead Prosecutor has levelled serious accusations against the ship’s Captain, who joined Costa Crociere in 2002 as a Safety Officer and was appointed Captain in 2006, after acting as Staff Captain as well. As all Costa Masters, he has been constantly trained passing all tests. In light of these accusations and the continuing investigation, it would be inappropriate for us to comment further at this time.

From the AP

Meanwhile, attention focused on the captain, who was spotted by Coast Guard officials and passengers fleeing the scene even as the chaotic and terrifying evacuation was under way......

According to the Italian navigation code, a captain who abandons a ship in danger can face up to 12 years in prison.......

Coast Guard officers later spotted Schettino on land as the evacuation unfolded. The officers urged him to return to his ship and honor his duty to stay aboard until everyone was safely off the vessel, but he ignored them, Coast Guard Cmdr. Francesco Paolillo said.


It's interesting now that there are Americans returning home for the press to interview it's the third story on the news tonight

What a terrifying situation for everyone involved.
I feel it is lucky( can i say that word in this situation) it happened at dinner and not the middle of the night .
more lives would have been lost.

When I go on cruises I feel I am very safe:rolleyes:
I wont feel that anymore.:(

After a few hours they got to the point where helicopters and divers were completing the evacuation, and as I understand it that's about when the captain left (the details are missing or contradictory), so what exactly could the captain even have done at that point when the rescue workers were fully in charge?

After a few hours they got to the point where helicopters and divers were completing the evacuation, and as I understand it that's about when the captain left (the details are missing or contradictory), so what exactly could the captain even have done at that point when the rescue workers were fully in charge?

When his plane went down in (on) the Hudson he stayed on board until all passengers had been taken off, then he walked through the plane, TWICE, to check if anyone was left on board. Only then did he abandon the aircraft.

Captain Schettino may have been absent the day the covered this in training. :(

CNN is showing reruns. Reportedly there were 140 Americans on that ship. There were no Americans in the Chile mine and the Today show was there. Sorry, just frustrated at the lack of coverage. A honeymooning couple was reportedly just rescued from the ship.

If it bleeds, it leads... If it sinks, it stinks.

Another (sixth) victim found inside the ship.

I suppose at least 14 people are still missing.

Starting to see the financial impact.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16573283

That doesn't seem to tell all the story

"The vessel is expected to be out of service for the remainder of our current fiscal year if not longer," it said in a statement to the London Stock Exchange.I can't believe anyone from the shipping company can remotely contemplate getting the vessel back up again and restored to service from this position.

Great, so the captain (allegedly) abandoned ship and his employer starts blaming him in public statements 48 hours later.

Thank goodness they're not behaving according to crude national stereotypes :rolleyes:

Thank goodness they're not behaving according to crude national stereotypes :rolleyes:

See the comments on the WSJ.com story. Italians are protesting that "these officers are not Italians, they are Neapolitans." Acting more like the "Jersey Shore" cast than professionals. Not to speak of the 60 Russian babes on board. Looks like "Da Situation" got a little distracted. :o

I've read 2 more news reports that seem to be looking more into this.

There is even a youtube video of ship supposedly one of the Costa's, doing this exact thing....

Its dark, but with good forensics, one should be able to determine, the ship, location, and distance from shore.

http://video.corriere.it/nave-concordia-al-giglio-/9dfa5ea6-3e9b-11e1-8b52-5f77182bc574

A quote from a perceptive person on cruisecritic.com


"I think the strange and disconcerting factor for me is that Costa has a ship running this itinerary on a regular basis. I can't remember the number of the post on this thread but there was something about a "Sentimental Sail Bye" for the people on the island of Giglio. Evidently there is a previous Costa Captain living on that island which also serves as a "heart" for many of the Italian crew/officers."

Starting to see the financial impact.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16573283

That doesn't seem to tell all the story

I can't believe anyone from the shipping company can remotely contemplate getting the vessel back up again and restored to service from this position.

Actually, I think they do plan to get the ship back in service. Over on Cruise Critic, a poster is the brother-in-law of the senior salvage master with Titan Salvage, who was on site Saturday. He posted that his b-i-l says it's not as bad as it looks on TV, and that given a few months, and over a hundred million dollars, they should have the ship up and ready to be moved to wherever Carnival plans to refit it (likely the same Italian yard that built the ship a few years ago. Of course, that was after his first assessment, and since rescue efforts are still underway, things are quite subject to change on that.

They do have a $30 million insurance deductible on the ship, but who knows if the salvage is part of that, or just the refit. I think the $85-95 million they are talking about is just loss of use of the ship for the remainder of this fiscal year, ending Nov 30, but doesn't include the impact this will have on people deciding not to cruise, especially in Europe and especially on Costa.

The share price is down around it's 52 week low this morning, which makes a nice buying opportunity, especially for people who cruise the Carnival brands frequently and want to take advantage of the shareholder benefit.

I am sure they will fix it up again.

I would also guess that it would be assigned to another line, I think Italians are way too superstitious to get back on it (after all when it was christened, the champagne bottle did not break, so the ship was doomed according to my in laws)

Then again, given that the entire crew pretty much was no where to be found according to many of the passenger reports I don't know why anybody would book Costa, but that's another issue

One would hope the cruise lines put in monitors to see where their ships are, and when they go off course. Supposedly there would have been alarms in the bridge when it went off course, those should be transmitted to operations so they can be involved earlier and not leave all the decision making to one person whose competence is most certainly questionable.

You can't fix that up.

Look at the Herald of Free Enterprise, just capsized onto sand, didn't strike anything or do structural damage, yet that was scrapped, and when righted and being towed to the breakers yard the structure nearly broke up.

This one has a ripped hull down one side, goodness knows (yet) what damage on the other side, which is laying on rocks, and all the internals and fitout, propulsion machinery, etc ruined by saltwater. Plus nobody will want to buy it. I hear there's a more active sea moving in to the area which will roll it around over the rocks, the end for any ship's structure.

I think Italians are way too superstitious to get back on it (after all when it was christened, the champagne bottle did not break, so the ship was doomed according to my in laws)It was always standard procedure for the champagne bottle to be taken into the shipyard workshops, put in a vice, and have the bottom filed down to a tiny thickness to ensure it would break when it hit. Perhaps nowadays with all-automated shipyards nobody is left with the hand skills to do this any more !

The ship costs $600M and was in service for only 5 years, so of course it'll be repaired.

And likely renamed, because I doubt they'll want the name Costa Concordia repeated after recommissioning.

I would also guess that it would be assigned to another line, I think Italians are way too superstitious to get back on it (after all when it was christened, the champagne bottle did not break, so the ship was doomed according to my in laws)Yes, and the accident happened on Friday, the 13th. :rolleyes:

Then again, given that the entire crew pretty much was no where to be found according to many of the passenger reports I don't know why anybody would book Costa, but that's another issueAll cruise lines seem to nowadays have the same kind of international setup with their crew, only some of the officers and maybe machinists may have a kind of confidant status with the ship owners.

One would hope the cruise lines put in monitors to see where their ships are, and when they go off course. Supposedly there would have been alarms in the bridge when it went off course, those should be transmitted to operations so they can be involved earlier and not leave all the decision making to one person whose competence is most certainly questionable.
All cruise ships have this and you can see their positions also on the internet, even on Costa's ship home pages. E.g you can see Costa Atlantica's position, speed and heading here. (http://www.costacruise.com/usa/costa_atlantica.html)

Well the guy from Lloyds insurance (probably knows more than all of us here added together) says it's pretty certainly a total loss.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16584075

I'd say anybody who isn't actually on site is just making a WAG (wild-assed guess) as to whether Concordia will be repaired or scrapped.

Well the guy from Lloyds insurance (probably knows more than all of us here added together) says it's pretty certainly a total loss.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16584075

He's actually from Lloyd's List, a publication formerly--but not currently--owned by Lloyd's of London.

It's too early to tell what they will do with it, nobody can say until they get a detailed look. The primary concern from that I've read over the next two weeks will be to get all the fluids off the ship before they ruin the ocean there.

One story said it's totally possible they can weld giant plates over the hole, pump out the water, and tow it away. In the same story it also said they may bring in a bunch of people with torches and cut it into little pieces and haul it off for salvage.

I'm betting they will repair it, but it's a total guess.

Partial transcript of today's news conference with Pier Luigi Foschi, chairman and chief executive officer of Costa Crociere, parent company of Costa Cruises:

http://cruiseradio.net/costa-concordia-press-conference-transcript/

I'm at a complete loss for how this could happen! With all the sophisticated navigational equipment, really, how? Absolutely horrifying.

The Titanic was also "sophisticated" for its time. It still sank. And so will many more cruise ships as long as people have the final say.

A co-worker mentioned to me today that a friend of his had just recently started a new job as a crew member on the Concordia. They have been in touch since the accident so the friend did get off the boat safely.

Small world.....

One story said it's totally possible they can weld giant plates over the hole, pump out the water, and tow it away. In the same story it also said they may bring in a bunch of people with torches and cut it into little pieces and haul it off for salvage.

I'm betting they will repair it, but it's a total guess.

Providing there aren't a lot of breaches on the side resting on the seabed, then they at least have easy access to cover the holes. My biggest question is for them to pump the water out, how do they stop water from just flowing in from the top of the ship? The bottom and sides of the ship are watertight, but not from the top down. The water just runs down the elevator shafts and stairwells and into the bottom of the ship.

Thinking back to cheesy movies of my youth, like Airport 70-something and Raise The Titanic, I wonder if they can put big balloons under the starboard side of the ship, inflate those and tilt the ship back up on it's keel, allowing the water to settle into the lower levels of the ship, where it can then be pumped out. I'm positive there is going to be a documetary on this, and I can't wait to see it.

Thinking back to cheesy movies of my youth, like Airport 70-something and Raise The Titanic, I wonder if they can put big balloons under the starboard side of the ship, inflate those and tilt the ship back up on it's keel, allowing the water to settle into the lower levels of the ship, where it can then be pumped out. I'm positive there is going to be a documetary on this, and I can't wait to see it.

Looks like what they are looking at according to the BBC:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16573312

Looks like what they are looking at according to the BBC
This is how such salvage has been done for the last 100 years, with big air pumps on barges alongside. Developed to raise WW1 wrecks. But doesn't spring up to the surface like in Hollywood - takes months. Will need to cut off anything they can, like upper decks to minimise weight.

This is how such salvage has been done for the last 100 years, with big air pumps on barges alongside. Developed to raise WW1 wrecks. But doesn't spring up to the surface like in Hollywood - takes months. Will need to cut off anything they can, like upper decks to minimise weight.
I doubt the salvage crew will be allowed to cut off the upper deck, given that's a big chunk of what makes cruise ships expensive.

Five more victims found inside the ship. This brings the total casualties to eleven.

Maybe after this incident (cruise ship) captains are again seen as captains and not as PR clowns.

Providing there aren't a lot of breaches on the side resting on the seabed, then they at least have easy access to cover the holes. My biggest question is for them to pump the water out, how do they stop water from just flowing in from the top of the ship?

Divers set off multiple "micro-charges" this morning above & below the water lines to speed up search & recovery for the missing - revised upward at 29 (25 pax & 4 crew members) - creating openings up to 6 feet in diameter (safer & easier for divers to make entry & exit, without doing all that extra "mountain" climbing up & down with the ship angled on its side.

With saltwater flowing everywhere, salvage will need to strip the liner nearly to its bare bones, the pipes, electricals, cables, electronics, circuits & switches, carpets, cabinets & furnishings, mattress & pillows - that's truely a complete overhaul/rebuild practically from scratch. Not to mention all the major systems like the propulsion and plumbing.

One would hope the cruise lines put in monitors to see where their ships are, and when they go off course. Supposedly there would have been alarms in the bridge when it went off course ...

Multiple real-time cameras should be on and recording (they quickly recovered the "blackbox" already) the events before, during & afterward - the chains of events will be sorted out & reconstructed as we are now beginning to see & hear. Suffice to say, the captain's career is finished, at least with Costa.

We've been on escorted private tours of cruise ship's bridge when it wasn't busy navigating narrow channels or shallow waters - where everyone is assigned & busy working - the captain and/or officers on duty are never alone up there - using radars and sonar, etc. along with navigational maps & GPS to chart the course and track & pinpoint the ship's precise movement. When the ship got into trouble & alarms began going off, multiple officers & crews are responsible based on the established plans & procedures on who's going to do what, and they drill on a regular basis - supposingly ... (The dining room attendant often become the crew member responsible for retrieving & handling out life vests near the muster stations if all guests are told to proceed directly and not to go back to their statement/leave all their belongings behind. The room steward will be directing guests at their assembly stations and so forth ...)

Ultimately, the captain is held accountable but the investigators are probably interviewing everyone else assigned to and scheduled to be on the bridge on that tragic evening - there is probably more untold stories underneath the "covers" ...

To put in perspectives: fortunately, 99% of the pax & crew survived and sadly, it's the 1% with the odds against them - apparently foolish actions done as a tribute ended up costing lives, and it didn't have to happen ... with that, my DW is looking at our cruise calendar, our next sailing is this May (and, we almost booked a Mediterranean cruise)

italian audio / transcript >
http://www.corriere.it/cronache/12_gennaio_16/procuratore-grosseto-schettino-fermato-perche-poteva-fuggire_76f76cec-4029-11e1-a5d2-75a8a88b1277.shtml

partial english transcript
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503543_162-57360065-503543/coast-guard-to-capt.-go-back-on-board/

[ ] are via google translate, edited as best i can


[Coast Guard: "I am De Falco from Livorno, may I speak with the captain?]

[Schettino: "Yes, good evening, Captain De Falco"]

[Coast Guard : "Tell me your name please?"]

[Schettino: "I am Captain Schettino, Captain,']

Coast Guard: "Listen Schettino, there are people trapped on board. Now you need to go on your life boat, under the bow of the ship on the side. There is a ladder. You need to climb up the ladder and board the ship. Get on board and report to me how many people there are. Is that clear? [I'm recording this communication Captain Schettino]

[Schettino "I tell you one thing Captain"]

[Coast Guard "You speak loudly. Put your hand in front of the microphone and speak in a louder voice, okay?]

Schettino: "At this moment the ship is tilted."

Coast Guard: "I understand. Listen, there are people who are coming down the ladder on the bow. Go back in the opposite direction, get back on the ship, and tell me how many people there are and what they have on board. . . . Tell me if there are children, women and what type of help they need. And you tell me the number of each of these categories. Is that clear? . . . Listen Schettino, perhaps you have saved yourself from the sea but I will make you look very bad. I will make you pay for this. Dammit, go back on board!"

Schettino: [Captain] "Please . . . "

Coast Guard: "There is no please about it. Go back on board. Assure me you are going back on board!"

Schettino: "I am in the life boat, under the ship, I haven't gone anywhere, I'm here."

Coast Guard: "What are you doing?"

Schettino: "I am coordinating [relief efforts] "

Coast Guard: "What are you coordinating there? Go on board! Coordinate the rescue from on board! Are you refusing?"

Schettino: "No, I am not refusing."

Coast Guard: [You are refusing to go on board Captain?] "Tell me the reason why you are not going back on board."

Schettino: "There is another life boat [that has stopped]

Coast Guard: "You go back on board! That is an order! There is nothing else for you to consider. You have sounded the 'abandon ship.' Now I am giving the orders. Go back on board. Is that clear? Don't you hear me?"

Schettino: "I am going on board."

Coast Guard: "Go! Call me immediately when you are on board. My rescue people are in front of the bow."

...

[Coast Guard: There are already dead Schettino. "]

[Schettino: "How many bodies are there?"]

[Coast Guard: "I do not know .. One I know. One I heard. You have to tell me how many there are, Christ. "]

[Schettino: "But you realize that it's dark and here we see nothing]

[Coast Guard: And you want to go home Schettino? It's dark and you want to go home? Go up on the bow of the ship with the ladder and tell me what you can do, how many people are there, and what they need. Now.]

[Schettino: `I am with the second in command." ]

[Coast Guard: Go up, both of you. You and your second climb aboard now. Is that clear?]

[Schettino: "I want to get on board, but that the other boat here ... There are other rescuers, she stopped and was there, now calling other rescuers
]

[Coast Guard: "You are telling me this hour. Now go on board, go on BOARD! And immediately say how many people are there. "]

[Schettino:" Very good captain ']

[Coast Guard : "Go, now!"]

The remainder of the radio exchange

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2012/01/17/international/i080334S79.DTL
_Schettino: "Where are your rescuers?"

_De Falco: "My air rescue is on the prow. Go. There are already bodies, Schettino."

_Schettino: "How many bodies are there?"

_De Falco: "I don't know. I have heard of one. You are the one who has to tell me how many there are. Christ."

_Schettino: "But do you realize it is dark and here we can't see anything..."

_De Falco: "And so what? You want go home, Schettino? It is dark and you want to go home? Get on that prow of the boat using the pilot ladder and tell me what can be done, how many people there are and what their needs are. Now!"

_Schettino: "...I am with my second in command."

_De Falco: "So both of you go up then ... You and your second go on board now. Is that clear?"

_Schettino: "Commander, I want to go on board, but it is simply that the other boat here ... there are other rescuers. It has stopped and is waiting..."

_De Falco: "It has been an hour that you have been telling me the same thing. Now, go on board. Go on board! And then tell me immediately how many people there are there."

_Schettino: "OK, commander"

_De Falco: "Go, immediately!"(bolding mine)

Needless to say, Schettino comes off looking like a coward.

Story hit home for us as we did almost the same cruise on the Concordia last summer. We enjoyed the cruise and the ship was beautiful. All of our interaction with the crew was very good, I believe we did have a different captain though.

thanks Plato90s

the audio is worth listening to as well >

-02:21
Listen Schettino, perhaps you have saved yourself from the sea but I will make you look very bad. I will make you pay for this. Dammit, go back on board!"

Listen Schettino, that you saved yourself from the sea, but I am going to... I'm going to make sure you get in trouble. ...I am going to make you pay for this. Go on board, (expletive)!"

-01:10
["I do not know .. One I know. One I heard. You have to tell me how many there are, Christ. "]

"I don't know. I have heard of one. You are the one who has to tell me how many there are. Christ."

-01:02
And you want to go home Schettino? It's dark and you want to go home?

And so what? You want go home, Schettino? It is dark and you want to go home

-00:15
["You are telling me this hour. Now go on board, go on BOARD! And immediately say how many people are there."]

"It has been an hour that you have been telling me the same thing. Now, go on board. Go on board! And then tell me immediately how many people there are there."

I doubt the salvage crew will be allowed to cut off the upper deck, given that's a big chunk of what makes cruise ships expensive.

The ship is not going to be saved. They'll cut whatever they need to to get her off the bottom.

telegraph puts up audio with subtitles >
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/9020704/Cruise-disaster-Costa-Concordia-captain-told-to-get-back-on-board-by-coast-guard.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wM9sam2u_Tk (official)

... One would hope the cruise lines put in monitors to see where their ships are, and when they go off course....
This ship wasn't off course, though. It went right where Captain Schettino steered it, for a Giglio "fly-by." Apparantly, he didn't read his charts, though, to see that there was a rock in the way of his intended course.

The transcript is unbelievable, but you really need to listen to the audio to get a sense of the urgency. I generally believe it's good policy to avoid yelling at people on the job, but sometimes it's called for--and this captain fully deserved it!

The transcript is unbelievable, but you really need to listen to the audio to get a sense of the urgency. I generally believe it's good policy to avoid yelling at people on the job, but sometimes it's called for--and this captain fully deserved it!

The transcript is pretty damning, but the audio is irrefutable evidence that the Captain abandoned ship before all the pax were off then resisted every request and order to get back on the ship and supervise efforts first-hand. I'd say things don't look good at all for Capt. Schettino.

It's sad an ultimately inexcusable that a man like him was placed in charge of a ship. I think it's reasonably clear that people died from his inaction (not taking charge of the evacuation) and it seems likely that people died from his action of not ensuring his ship was on course.

Very sad for the victims and their families.

It's sad an ultimately inexcusable that a man like him was placed in charge of a ship.



'A man like him' is a coward by his actions taken (or not taken) This behaviour would be hard to predict in advance... It's hard to blame the company for the Captain being cowardly.


I think it's reasonably clear that people died from his inaction (not taking charge of the evacuation) and it seems likely that people died from his action of not ensuring his ship was on course.


Certainly he is culpable for the whole disaster in agreeing to steer the ship of the safe course so the waiter could wave to his sister. As for his inaction, that's hard to say.

Certainly he is culpable for the whole disaster in agreeing to steer the ship of the safe course so the waiter could wave to his sister. As for his inaction, that's hard to say.

one of the many reports suggests passengers communicated problems via cell phone before ship did

more a question of just how bad the results of the investigation will be

The transcript is pretty damning, but the audio is irrefutable evidence that the Captain abandoned ship before all the pax were off then resisted every request and order to get back on the ship and supervise efforts first-hand. I'd say things don't look good at all for Capt. Schettino.


Naval tradition is hundreds of years strong on this point: the Captain is the last man off the ship and even goes down with it if that's what it takes. Schettino dishonored that tradition and I hope he pays for it.

one of the many reports suggests passengers communicated problems via cell phone before ship did

more a question of just how bad the results of the investigation will be

Well there are very many damning things being said about him:

* abandoned ship and refused to return to conduct the rescue
* drinking alcohol shortly before the ship went down
* ordered staff to continue cooking his dinner even when they were complaing that the boat was sinking
* fled in a taxi
* caused the accident by show-boating to the islanders

Still, presumably if a ship is going to ship there are going to be some elderly and infirm who won't make it, although I understand that some people drowned after jumping in when they should really have been in a lifeboat launched in timely fashion.

... Schettino dishonored that tradition and I hope he pays for it.
I think "De Falco from Livorno" intends to see to that.

Naval tradition is hundreds of years strong on this point: the Captain is the last man off the ship and even goes down with it if that's what it takes. Schettino dishonored that tradition and I hope he pays for it.

Well said. Thank you.

Well said. Thank you.

I'm glad you are not on the cruise ship. Lucky you!

OK, there is plenty of damning evidence about “Captain” Schettino. No need to review that here.

But with a view to the future of Costa, Carnival and cruising safety there remain some important questions – probably even more important than Schettino’s actions and fate.

Although Costa is doing all it can to distance itself from its captain, the cruise line will have to answer to these questions of failures of policy and training:

The captain was drinking at the ship’s bar with one or more women just before the crash. On duty.

Five days after the accident, Costa still cannot give an accurate passenger list so the number of people counted as missing continues to change.

Costa had the ship located at all times via satellite GPS. Did they ever give the order to change course, away from Giglio?

The nautical fly-by was a common occurrence; according to islanders this was by no means the first time. Did Costa take any corrective action in the past? Results?

Members of the crew trampled passengers, including women, children and those in wheelchairs, in the rush to the lifeboats. Training? Discipline?

For those rescued without clothing, money, passports or credit cards, Costa has said (literally): “You’re not getting anything from us. If you want compensation, sue us.”

Costa Cruises would like us to believe this was a one-off mistake by a rogue captain, but they have a lot to answer for and a lot of explaining to do if they want to stay in business.

The nautical fly-by was a common occurrence; according to islanders this was by no means the first time. Did Costa take any corrective action in the past? Results?To my mind, this is one of the key issues relating to why the accident occurred at all.

However, the evidence isn't at all clear on this at the moment. One of the most detailed accounts that I've seen of previous sail pasts was given by the father of the head waiter who, it seems, may have been being honoured by Friday night's sail past. Although I have only read it in translation, the father seemed to be saying that the ship came past Giglio all the time, but usually at a distance of two or three miles. (For context, the channel between Giglio and the mainland is a little under 9 miles wide.) The only non-verbal evidence that I've seen of previous sail pasts is the video of the August occasion, which was done with Costa permission and, it seems, coordination with the harbour authorities. If the ship made a habit of doing it, I would have expected (in the 2011 world) to have seen more video emerging by now of other occasions.

So I would personally hold judgment on this issue at the moment. But I agree that if it turns out that the ship was buzzing the island frequently and Costa did nothing about it, then the failure of navigational management may go up to the very top.

However, the evidence isn't at all clear on this at the moment.

Perhaps this will help clarify:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16606405

"Lloyd's List told the BBC that the vessel passed within 230m of the island on 14 August 2011 to mark La Notte di San Lorenzo"

Perhaps this will help clarify:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16606405

"Lloyd's List told the BBC that the vessel passed within 230m of the island on 14 August 2011 to mark La Notte di San Lorenzo"Yes, I think that is the single documented occasion when the sail past was done, with Costa permission and advance planning; that's the occasion from which there is video.

Is there video or documentary evidence of any others? That's what I'd be interested to know. I haven't seen any so far.

Is there video or documentary evidence of any others? That's what I'd be interested to know. I haven't seen any so far.

http://www.i-italy.org/19002/costa-concordia-sail-stunt-ended-tragedy

"The local news website GiglioNews offers evidence of this. As La Stampa’s online edition reports, on August 18, 2011 GiglioNews published an exchange of appreciation letters between the major of Giglio Sergio Ortelli and Costa Concordia’s captain Massimo Gambarino, who had led the ship close to the coastline on August 14 (and another time “three years ago,” as stated in Gambarino’s reply), offering the residents of Giglio and the tourists “an incredible spectacle”.


http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,809580,00.html

Has some info too, but not costa specific.

Hence my keenness to see whether there is video or documentary (or other non-verbal) evidence of any others. What people say after an event like this is always open to doubt.

Hence my keenness to see whether there is video or documentary (or other non-verbal) evidence of any others. What people say after an event like this is always open to doubt.

True enough. The Captain is quoted in the Spanish daily El Mundo (www.elmundo.es) as saying "I felt sure of myself. I had done the "greeting" three or four times in the past."

Of couse the good captain said a lot of other things that really don't hold water. :confused:

OK, there is plenty of damning evidence about “Captain” Schettino. No need to review that here ...

For those rescued without clothing, money, passports or credit cards, Costa has said (literally): “You’re not getting anything from us. If you want compensation, sue us.”

... Costa Cruises would like us to believe this was a one-off mistake by a rogue captain, but they have a lot to answer for and a lot of explaining to do if they want to stay in business.

A number of YouTube videos by Costa Cruises have been posted - here's the link to it. They speak for themselves (including the body language & posture, the fingers ... )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNqAq2bHtFc&feature=relmfu

On the public relations end in assuring customers & future cruisers booked or planning to sail with them - they can and need to do a (little) more, I think ...

A number of YouTube videos by Costa Cruises have been posted - here's the link to it. They speak for themselves (including the body language & posture, the fingers ... )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNqAq2bHtFc&feature=relmfu

On the public relations end in assuring customers & future cruisers booked or planning to sail with them - they can and need to do a (little) more, I think ...

I'm not a body-language expert, but I read his body language as humbled/nervous, though it's hard to tell how much of that might be a function of speaking in what's not his native language.

OK, there is plenty of damning evidence about “Captain” Schettino. No need to review that here.

But with a view to the future of Costa, Carnival and cruising safety there remain some important questions – probably even more important than Schettino’s actions and fate.

Although Costa is doing all it can to distance itself from its captain, the cruise line will have to answer to these questions of failures of policy and training:

The captain was drinking at the ship’s bar with one or more women just before the crash. On duty.

Five days after the accident, Costa still cannot give an accurate passenger list so the number of people counted as missing continues to change.

Costa had the ship located at all times via satellite GPS. Did they ever give the order to change course, away from Giglio?

The nautical fly-by was a common occurrence; according to islanders this was by no means the first time. Did Costa take any corrective action in the past? Results?

Members of the crew trampled passengers, including women, children and those in wheelchairs, in the rush to the lifeboats. Training? Discipline?

For those rescued without clothing, money, passports or credit cards, Costa has said (literally): “You’re not getting anything from us. If you want compensation, sue us.”

Costa Cruises would like us to believe this was a one-off mistake by a rogue captain, but they have a lot to answer for and a lot of explaining to do if they want to stay in business.

Curious as to where you saw the bolded.

ETA:

From the BBC article:

According to Italian media, Capt Schettino told investigators he had left the ship accidentally after tripping and falling into a rescue craft.

Classic.

For those rescued without clothing, money, passports or credit cards, Costa has said (literally): “You’re not getting anything from us. If you want compensation, sue us.”
.

Wow, the press is certainly mixing up the meaning of what Costa said, since they are reporting

"I give my personal assurance that we will take care of each and every one of our guests, crew and their families affected by this tragic event," Carnival Chief Executive Micky Arison said in a statement late on Wednesday - five days after the incident that left 11 people dead and 22 missing.

Costa Cruise Lines, a unit of Carnival and operator of the ship, has been arranging lodging and transportation for passengers and crew members to return home, and has offered assistance and counseling as needed. It has also begun refunding passengers their cruise fares and all costs incurred while on board.

The company also said it was contacting every passenger and crew member or their family and will be addressing personal possessions lost on board.

Cordelli, unfortunately I've seen at least one report where Costa representatives showed up at their hotel room and specifically told them they wouldn't help out with anything. They received absolutely no help from Costa, but are only home now because of their Embassy and their airline. Maybe now they are saying they will help, but it's taken them 5 days to start saying that.

Just reporting what the news is saying based on Carnivals press release, which is not if you want anything from us sue us

Just reporting what the news is saying based on Carnivals press release, which is not if you want anything from us sue us

I don't think ever they sued you. Let's captain is doing their job. He's charge.

The experience on the ground seem to indicate that Costa was overwhelmed and didn't do a good job in the aftermath.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/18/travel/concordia-us-survivor-stories/index.html
Survivors of the disaster say the scene on land was equally chaotic. Fleser said the lifeboat ride to the Tuscan island of Giglio was the last she saw of Costa Cruises employees until she and her husband and daughter reached a hotel in Rome on Saturday.

The people of the island came out in force to help the stranded travelers, and a local priest opened up the church. Fleser and her family stayed at the home of a local family overnight.

"The people of the island were wonderful," Fleser said.

Nancy Lofaro and her husband wandered around on shore, finding a church, a local cafe and a small hotel all packed.

"There was no organization. There was nobody and the staff was in shock as much as we were. There were no announcements. We saw Costa people ... walking around with a bullhorn, not using it," Lofaro said.

Fleser and her family were herded onto a ferry to the mainland the morning after the wreck "but we had no idea where we were going."

Triage doctors, members of the coast guard, Red Cross and other volunteer organizations met the cruise passengers and took them to a local school where more local services were provided. Her daughter received a pair of sneakers there because she was still wearing high heels from the night before, Fleser said.

The family then boarded a bus to Rome, where they were dropped off at a hotel.

"The Marriott had no idea we were coming. All these refugee boat people land on their front door and they say, 'Who are you? But we'll take care of you,'" Fleser said.

There were two Costa cruise representatives at the hotel, "but every time we asked them if they could do something for us, they said they had no authority," she said.

The cruise line did pay for food, the hotel and their airfare home, Fleser said, although they booked them on a flight to Albany, Georgia, instead of Albany, New York -- a mistake the family discovered in the Atlanta airport.

http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=4715

We were very lucky we were in one of the first lifeboats but because no one gave the order to drop the lifeboat and all the staff were waiting for him to give the order people sat and we stood in the lifeboat for ages, people were screaming and after the boat was full they shut the doors, but people were trapped on board as the other boats didn't work so they broke the doors to get onto the lifeboat I think by the time we left there would have been 200 in a lifeboat made for 115, when they waiters and one engineer decided to give up and just go the ship had already listed significantly, as we tried to drop the boat kept getting stuck on the side of the boat with desperate staff and passengers trying to lever it off the boat lurched forward and back twisiting as we got to the boat every time people fell on top of each other, if I had my phone I could send you a picture of my heel print in my leg, my partner had a small hernia in his belly button this has now expanded by people falling on him.

...

Costa had five staff here all day yesterday until mid afternoon apparently there are people at 2 hotels at the airport. The staff were trying as hard as they could but they had nothing to give us, we still have no clothes, money has been provided by our embassy, our embassy is taking us shopping. (emphasis mine)

[QUOTE=mikeef;17839059]Curious as to where you saw the bolded.

The captain was drinking at the ship’s bar with one or more women just before the crash. On duty.

http://gourl.gr/oly

'What scandalised me most was when I saw the captain spending much of the evening before we hit the rocks drinking in the bar with a beautiful woman on his arm.

Il Messaggero has identified her as 25-year-old Domnica Cermontan, a blonde woman from Moldava.


Members of the crew trampled passengers, including women, children and those in wheelchairs, in the rush to the lifeboats. Training? Discipline?

http://gourl.gr/ol3

For those rescued without clothing, money, passports or credit cards, Costa has said (literally): “You’re not getting anything from us. If you want compensation, sue us.”

http://gourl.gr/ol2

:)

Spain's Libertad Digital is reporting that the 25-year-old blonde Domnika Cemortan was not on the Concordia's passenger list; that she dined and drank wine with the captain the evening of the 13th; and that she was on the ship's bridge when the accident happened.

http://gourl.gr/ol7

The experience on the ground seem to indicate that Costa was overwhelmed and didn't do a good job in the aftermath.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/18/travel/concordia-us-survivor-stories/index.html

I'm sure they'll do better next time! :(

[QUOTE=mikeef;17839059]Curious as to where you saw the bolded.

The captain was drinking at the ship’s bar with one or more women just before the crash. On duty.

http://gourl.gr/oly

'What scandalised me most was when I saw the captain spending much of the evening before we hit the rocks drinking in the bar with a beautiful woman on his arm.

Il Messaggero has identified her as 25-year-old Domnica Cermontan, a blonde woman from Moldava.


Members of the crew trampled passengers, including women, children and those in wheelchairs, in the rush to the lifeboats. Training? Discipline?

http://gourl.gr/ol3

For those rescued without clothing, money, passports or credit cards, Costa has said (literally): “You’re not getting anything from us. If you want compensation, sue us.”

http://gourl.gr/ol2

:)

Spain's Libertad Digital is reporting that the 25-year-old blonde Domnika Cemortan was not on the Concordia's passenger list; that she dined and drank wine with the captain the evening of the 13th; and that she was on the ship's bridge when the accident happened.

http://gourl.gr/ol7

I'm just gonna have to believe you on that first one! ;)

If those reports are, indeed, accurate, I'm surprised they haven't been more widely disseminated.

Mike

[QUOTE=spainflyer;17843071]

I'm just gonna have to believe you on that first one! ;)

Mike

Mikester --

Check:

From the Spanish media:
http://tinyurl.com/7kf3vzm

From the Italian media:
http://tinyurl.com/6wte2yw

From the Moldavan media:
http://www.jurnaltv.md/ro/news/moldoveanca-eroina-de-pe-concordia-328660/

and from the British media:
http://tinyurl.com/6vltb3f

:eek:

The latest BS from the Captain is that the reason he left passengers behind on the ship was because "he tripped and fell into a lifeboat"!

In my 61 years on this earth, the BS story of all time!



Worldspan
131 cruises strong

The latest BS from the Captain is that the reason he left passengers behind on the ship was because "he tripped and fell into a lifeboat"!

Worldspan
131 cruises strong

It turns out that he fell into the lifeboat with his #2 officer Dmitri, as well as the third in command. Fancy that! The things that happen!

Or, as one cynic put it on a jokes page -- "I can well imagine that he did fall into the lifeboat. I once fell into bed with my wife's sister. Had a devil of a time getting out." ;)

It turns out that he fell into the lifeboat with his #2 officer Dmitri, as well as the third in command ... Had a devil of a time getting out." ;)

And, once they fell in ... (from how high up on the ship into the lifeboat, unlikely that they all "free fall" 60+ feet between the assembly/muster station as the ship was tilted sideway, and the waterline ?) - they couldn't climb back out or up to the ship? :confused:

The Captain might've been in charge of the ship sailing in shallow water, but he definitely was NOT alone up on the bridget/control room - there's a group of officers and crew up there working alongside, keeping the watch & making sure things are running according to plans. Lots of unanswered questions (discussed over at cruisecritics . com) about the (in)actions of the 1st. officer in charge, 2nd. officer and others on duty.

As far as I am concerned, I don't have a problem with the Captain dining & wining (although drinking isn't a good idea) with a female as he is entitled to time off when his duty/shift is over - that's why the ship has 2nd. and 3rd. officers that can take full charge in his absence. In this case, it looked & sounded to be a major failure in the chains of command & control, and the junior crews were left on their own (as being posted in cruisecritic's board) to struggle with getting the lifeboats loaded, launched & released - literally in the dark and water flowing in.

[QUOTE=mikeef;17843636]

Mikester --

Check:

From the Spanish media:
http://tinyurl.com/7kf3vzm

From the Italian media:
http://tinyurl.com/6wte2yw

From the Moldavan media:
http://www.jurnaltv.md/ro/news/moldoveanca-eroina-de-pe-concordia-328660/

and from the British media:
http://tinyurl.com/6vltb3f

:eek:

Double :eek:

It turns out that he fell into the lifeboat with his #2 officer Dmitri, as well as the third in command. Fancy that! The things that happen!

Or, as one cynic put it on a jokes page -- "I can well imagine that he did fall into the lifeboat. I once fell into bed with my wife's sister. Had a devil of a time getting out." ;)

I saw that first bit yesterday. I'm bringing those three to Vegas with me; They must be the luckiest SOB's in the history of the world.

Mike

The Captain might've been in charge of the ship sailing in shallow water, but he definitely was NOT alone up on the bridget/control room

Yes, according to reports the lovely Domnika Cemortan was up there to help out. Could she be a part of the problem? Authorities are looking for her but have so far been unsuccessful. :confused:

In this case, it looked & sounded to be a major failure in the chains of command & control, and the junior crews were left on their own (as being posted in cruisecritic's board) to struggle with getting the lifeboats loaded, launched & released - literally in the dark and water flowing in.With the majority of the crew just ordinary hotel / casino workers, not speaking Italian - heck, most probably not speaking very good English - it is not surprising that the chain of command did not function. Even with over 4000 passengers, the huge ship might have had maybe just 40 real seamen aboard.

I've said it before. The situation was saved by relatively good conditions. Imagine what would have happened had the sea been rough and the ship had really totally sunk.

Question: why is cruising so bereft of governmental regulations? We don't let planes just fly across oceans without any types of air traffic control; why do we allow cruisers to do it?

There's Maritime law in open waters, and most certainly Italy has regulations along it's coast.

Part of the difference between planes and cruise ships is a plane is going six hundred plus miles per hour, the Concordia's top speed was 26 miles per hour.

Yes, according to reports the lovely Domnika Cemortan was up there to help out. Could she be a part of the problem? Authorities are looking for her but have so far been unsuccessful. :confused:

I saw her on French TV- defending the Captain.
She said he saved at least 3000 passengers
Same as per this article ( in french):
http://www.rtbf.be/info/monde/detail_reprise-des-recherches-de-survivants-sur-l-epave-du-costa-concordia?id=7415473

Do a search for Domnica Tchemortan

There's Maritime law in open waters, and most certainly Italy has regulations along it's coast.

There are air agreements as well, but that doesn't prevent the need for ATC.


Part of the difference between planes and cruise ships is a plane is going six hundred plus miles per hour, the Concordia's top speed was 26 miles per hour.

I was thinking more along the lines of safety (boat inspections), not them running into each other.

There are air agreements as well, but that doesn't prevent the need for ATC.



I was thinking more along the lines of safety (boat inspections), not them running into each other.

The primary reason cruising is lacking in regulation is because it doesn't scare people. There is an inherent fear associated with aviation. Aircraft operate at high speeds, at extreme altitudes, and operate in a very unnatural manner: they fly, unsupported, and far from the ground. This fear results in crew compliance and public insistence that government at least appear to regulate aviation. The public view of cruising is that it is safe and mundane, and, as a result, there is no push for regulation.

I'm bringing those three to Vegas with me; They must be the luckiest SOB's in the history of the world. Mike

In what the press called a "remarkable coincidence" also falling into the same lifeboat with Captain Schettino were:

Dimitri Christidis, the ship’s second officer, and
Silvia Coronia, the No 3

Since they were -- as the good Captain says -- "coordinating the evacuation from the lifeboat" you'd think they would have at least chosen different lifeboats. Of course, when you're under the Captain's orders, you do what he says...:(

Sorry, Mike -- all the casinos in Vegas already have these three names and they are examining Italian and Greek passports very, very carefully! :rolleyes:

Reports from today’s Spanish, Italian, American (Fox) and British press:

Domnica Cemortan, aka “Miss Concordia” was traveling on the ship without a ticket and without a stateroom. She claims that she bought a ticket on line, but none was sold to her name and she was not on the passenger list. The assumption is that she was traveling as a guest of Captain Schettino, and staying in his quarters.

The Captain and Domnica dined together in one of the ship’s restaurants, drinking the equivalent of a bottle of wine between them. The Captain left the table shortly after 9:05 pm and went directly to the bridge. The crash came at 9:42.

In an interview, Cemortan stated “I am not Captain Schettino’s lover.”

In other recent revelations, the Concordia had made a total of 52 “fly-bys” before this one – not clear from the articles if all at Giglio, or at other objectives, as well.

Question: why is cruising so bereft of governmental regulations? We don't let planes just fly across oceans without any types of air traffic control; why do we allow cruisers to do it?

They are governed by the country in which they are registered . . . which is why so few ships are registered in the US. Really, the only thing we as passengers have going for us is that these ships are so expensive, the insurance companies require extensive testing and safety procedures so they'll be willing to insure these things.

They are governed by the country in which they are registered . . . which is why so few ships are registered in the US.

Does the US really have better/safer regulations? I suspect the reason that they're not registered in the US is because of the absurd liability of lawsuits. If you can get 3 million if you are dumb enough to spill coffee on yourself, Costa would probably be facing 10000 times the GDP of the universe for this incident.

http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16152275
A Costa Cruises executive has accused passengers of "sensationalism" over the disaster which saw its ship capsize off the coast of Italy.

Assistant director Monica Bova said to hear passengers who were safe and sound on the docks say "no-one saved us" was outrageous.

"I have read, seen and heard so much nonsense from these survivors, who tended as usual to choose sensationalism rather than information," she said.

"I realise that there may be conflicting opinions and I do not have the expertise to determine guilt and causes of the tragedy, but in a real emergency anything can happen."

Ms Bova went on to call her colleagues the "true heroes", adding that without them, none of the guests would have been able to evacuate.

Cruise ships are heavily inspected by the countries they visit (or they can be). I'm not sure how that would have done anything to prevent this disaster.

While it's up to the country they are registered in (and very few cruise ships are registered in the US for a variety of reasons) that doesn't mean there are not rules and inspections and regulations for ships that come to US ports for example. I can't say for every country, but I would hope other countries also have similar regulations

Vessel Safety. Ocean-going cruise ships of U.S. registry must meet a comprehensive set of Coast Guard safety regulations and be inspected annually by the Coast Guard to check for compliance. The safety regulations cover such things as hull structure, watertight integrity, structural requirements to minimize fire hazards, equipment requirements for lifesaving, firefighting, and vessel control, and requirements pertaining to the safe navigation of the ship. If the ship passes its annual inspection, it is issued a Coast Guard Certificate of Inspection valid for one year. The certificate must be displayed where passengers can see it.

Today, nearly all the ocean cruise lines employ passenger ships registered under flags of various foreign countries. (Note: The law requires that cruise-ship advertising in the U.S. disclose the country of registry.) Each ship is subject to the vessel inspection laws of the country in which it is registered. However, as a condition of permitting the vessels to take on passengers at U.S. ports, the U.S. Coast Guard requires the ships to meet the International Convention for the Safety of Life at Sea (referred to as SOLAS.) SOLAS and other international regulations also require compliance with stringent regulations regarding structural fire protection, firefighting and lifesaving equipment, watercraft integrity and stability, vessel control, navigation safety, crewing and crew competency, safety management and environmental protection.

To insure compliance with SOLAS, the Coast Guard examines the ship when it first goes into service at a U.S. port, with quarterly checks thereafter. The examinations emphasize structural fire safety and proper lifesaving equipment. Fire and abandon ship drills conducted by the ship's crew are witnessed, and operational tests are made on key equipment such as steering systems, fire pumps, and lifeboats. The Coast Guard has the authority to require correction of any deficiencies before allowing the ship to take on passengers at the U.S. port. The records of these examinations (called Control Verification Examinations) are open to the public at the Coast Guard Marine Safety Office (MSO) which conducted the examination. To do a search for a specific vessel, contact our Port State Information Exchange web site at: http://psix.uscg.mil.

Costa has said

Costa Crociere chairman and CEO Pier Luigi Foschi reportedly said the ship had passed required inspections by Italian and U.S. Coast Guards. He also said the ship was in compliance with all safety regulations prior to Friday’s crash.

Initially, cruise ship registration had nothing to do with avoiding safety inspections. US ships started registering in Panama in the 20's so they could avoid the prohibition laws and serve alcohol.

The Concordia is registered in Italy, so it would come under the Italian Coast Guard inspections.

"Ms Bova (of Costa Cruises) went on to call her colleagues the "true heroes", adding that without them, none of the guests would have been able to evacuate."

Right!! And just think of those in #112 (above). What would they have done without the magnificent work of the crew?? :o

Perhaps Costa prior to releasing any more press statements from Ms. Bova should watch the on-the-scenes TV recording here which is currently all over the Italian media where it is repeatedly announced that "everything is OK and under control, please return to your cabin".

The behaviour of Costa is deplorable.

http://video.corriere.it/sulla-concordia-tutto-sotto-controllo-tornate-cabina/e32caa7a-42e1-11e1-8207-8bde7a1445db

Initially, cruise ship registration had nothing to do with avoiding safety inspections. US ships started registering in Panama in the 20's so they could avoid the prohibition laws and serve alcohol.

The Concordia is registered in Italy, so it would come under the Italian Coast Guard inspections.I would say the main reason for flagging the ships abroad is taxation. And second is labor regulations.

There are air agreements as well, but that doesn't prevent the need for ATC.

I was thinking more along the lines of safety (boat inspections), not them running into each other.One of ATC's primary functions is to avoid aircraft running into each other. But the world's oceans are generally so sparsely travelled, compared to airways, that you don't need to have an equivalent of ATC. Self-separation works, just as there are some bits of nominally controlled airspace in which airliners effectively self-separate to a large extent anyway. But in some congested waterways, where there is a much greater risk of collision, there are systems akin to ATC.

If you're thinking about safety inspections and regulation of ship specifications and equipment, cruise ships are highly regulated. Not just by governments, although this is a large part of it. But classification societies and insurers impose strict requirements too. There is no suggestion that any want of seaworthiness is implicated in this accident.

However, there does seem to be a real issue with how some ships are operated by the humans who are in control. Just as in the airline industry, you'll get cowboy pilots (eg the Pinnacle pilots who, fortunately, managed to kill only themselves by their rodeo flying), there's always the risk that some foolhardy or inexperienced navigation officer will do something unsafe (eg Crown Princess' listing accident). Consequently, one of the things that I'd like to see the investigation focus on is CRM issues on modern passenger ships. I get the impression that in this field, passenger shipping may lag a long way behind airlines.

I would say the main reason for flagging the ships abroad is taxation. And second is labor regulations.Even today?
Costa: all in Italy.
AIDA: all in Italy.
Holland America Line: all in the Netherlands.
Cunard (until very recently): all in the UK.
Princess, P&O and (now) Cunard: British-flagged in Bermuda.

Question: why is cruising so bereft of governmental regulations? We don't let planes just fly across oceans without any types of air traffic control; why do we allow cruisers to do it?

There is a similar thing to air traffic control for ships, "Vessel Traffic Services" or VTS.

See IMO (http://www.imo.org/OurWork/Safety/Navigation/Pages/VesselTrafficServices.aspx) and Wiki. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vessel_traffic_service)

The VTS of the Civitavecchia area seems to have been established only in 2009: http://www.armedforces-int.com/article/vessel-traffic-management-systems.html. Not sure if it covers the Isola del Giglio.

Even today?
Costa: all in Italy.
AIDA: all in Italy.
Holland America Line: all in the Netherlands.
Cunard (until very recently): all in the UK.
Princess, P&O and (now) Cunard: British-flagged in Bermuda.

Many countries have loosened their taxation / regulations when they realized they could not compete with the Bahamas, Liberia etc (and I think also Bermuda). Not all.

Still many ships are flagged out. RCC?

Many countries have loosened their taxation / regulations when they realized they could not compete with the Bahamas, Liberia etc (and I think also Bermuda). Not all.

Still many ships are flagged out. RCC?But deliberate choices were made by most of these cruise lines to move from true flags of convenience to flags of developed countries with real regulatory teeth, even if those countries have likewise realised that they have to be less rigid about some things than in the past (eg on percentage of nationals to be employed on board). Those lines could still be saving money by staying with Panama or Liberia, but have chosen not to. So there are clearly different things going on.

AIUI, Bermuda operates on a decent British system, and the main reason that there's a big Bermudan fleet of "British" cruise ships is that under Bermudan law, the captain can conduct marriages. That's not possible on a ship on the main British registry. And (for reasons which largely escape me), being-married-by-the-man-whose-job-is-to-drive-the-ship is a big and rather lucrative business.

My impression is that much of the rest of the big lines' fleets are Bahamian, which I don't believe is a flag of convenience in quite the same way as Panama or Liberia. The big standout (to me) is that much of Carnival Cruise Lines' fleet is (IIRC) Panamian.

In what the press called a "remarkable coincidence" also falling into the same lifeboat with Captain Schettino were ... ship’s second officer, and ... the No 3 :rolleyes:

Tons of news & accounts over cruisecritics website - up to 20 officers, staff & crew were said to the up on the Bridge, in addition to the Miss (as the Captain's invited guest?) Investigators will ultimately sort out what orders were given and not given after the vessel got into trouble and who was communicating with the Coast Guard claiming it was just a power outage being investigated - disclosing the actions of other officers and crew members ... :rolleyes: I have a stinky, gut feeling that we haven't heard the worst yet & this is only the tip of the iceberg (urrrr, rocky one)

Perhaps Costa prior to releasing any more press statements from Ms. Bova should watch the on-the-scenes TV recording here ... where it is repeatedly announced that "everything is OK and under control,". The behaviour of Costa is deplorable.

Normally, the ship's Bridge is :mad: off-limits to guests & visitors, private or otherwise, when the vessel is in motion for obvious safety & security reasons. Ms. Bova do not :td: belong up there and possibly distracted the captain and the officers/crews on their duty watch? :eek: Modern cruiseships have security cameras and we've seen them in use - while on guided/private/escorted tours - monitoring the bridge itself, so it will be very, very interesting to see if the investigators can locate & recover the recorded images to see it for themselves.

Cruise ships are heavily inspected by the countries they visit (or they can be). I'm not sure how that would have done anything to prevent this disaster.

Ocean-going cruise ships of U.S. registry must meet a comprehensive set of Coast Guard safety regulations and be inspected annually by the Coast Guard to check for compliance ... nearly all the ocean cruise lines employ passenger ships registered under flags of various foreign countries ... as a condition of permitting the vessels to take on passengers at U.S. ports, the U.S. Coast Guard requires the ships to meet the International Convention for the Safety of Life at Sea (referred to as SOLAS.) SOLAS and ... compliance with stringent regulations regarding structural fire protection, firefighting and lifesaving equipment, watercraft integrity and stability, vessel control, navigation safety, crewing and crew competency, safety management and environmental protection.

Costa Crociere chairman and CEO Pier Luigi Foschi reportedly said the ship had passed required inspections by Italian and U.S. Coast Guards ... in compliance with all safety regulations.

We frequently sailed NCL and one of its vessel, the Pride of America (sailing the Hawaii waters) is registered under US flag - their safey plans and emergency procedures are nearly identical if not the same verbatium like the rest of their fleets - the passenger drills are conducted while the ship is docked, 45 to 30 minutes before the sailaway. These drills, however, are simulation or demonstration in nature, not full-scale live drills where folks actually put on their orange flotation devices, locate & head for their assigned muster stations, and actually climb onboard those boats that are used for tendoring to shore when it's anchored in a port.

Even under calm seas and ideal conditions with a full crew working, it easily take 30 minutes to load the typical 150 pax into those tendor boats before it can be launched. Crew members are supposed to be trained, qualified and licensed to operate these boats as they are used to tendor, as well as functioning as a rescue vessel during emergencies - and typically, each ships have extra crew members assigned to cover these duties when called upon.

The more I read, the more I feel that the delays in issuing the Mayday call and the darkness at night contributed to the confusion in the rapid evacuation scheme with the ship tilting on its side and seemingly sinking.

In all fairness to the majority of the crew members, many probably performed their duties in the emergency, above & beyond as trained, but without directions or further instructions and guidance from the Captain and the senior officers - the ship's own private 2 way radio systems might've gone down also after losing power/backup. Those lifeboats required piloting and steering, etc. and I've yet to hear or read stories of passengers taking over to navigate the boats, so at least some of the crews were indeed in charge of manning them that night. The smaller rubber inflatable boats were not used and if they did, typically used by the ship's crews as they aren't motorized.

It is the actions of the Captain & his senior officers that are truely unbelievable, they all should be jailed and ashamed.

there's always the risk that some foolhardy or inexperienced navigation officer will do something unsafe (eg Star Princess' listing accident).

Pretty sure you mean the Crown Princess (I was there for that incident). Star Princess had a serious fire once, but I don't remember anything about a listing accident with them.

Normally, the ship's Bridge is :mad: off-limits to guests & visitors, private or otherwise, when the vessel is in motion for obvious safety & security reasons. Ms. Bova do not :td: belong up there and possibly distracted the captain and the officers/crews on their duty watch? [/B]

Letitride3c: All well said -- however, Ms Bova is the Costa representative who claimed that, in spite of giving orders for passengers to return to their cabins when the ship was already taking on water (orders which very well might have killed some of them who then could not get out), the crew were "heroes". Ms Cemortan was the woman on the bridge (and, it was reported in The Daily Beast, in the lifeboat with the captain, and second and third officers!) and from the looks of her photos, she could be a bit of a distraction. :eek:

Pretty sure you mean the Crown Princess (I was there for that incident).Sorry, you are quite right; I've corrected my post. I've got Star Princess on the brain because of the fire and the appropriateness of the muster procedures.

http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16152275

"Ms Bova (of Costa Cruises) went on to call her colleagues the "true heroes", adding that without them, none of the guests would have been able to evacuate."

Right!! And just think of those in #112 (above). What would they have done without the magnificent work of the crew?? :o

Perhaps Costa prior to releasing any more press statements from Ms. Bova should watch the on-the-scenes TV recording here which is currently all over the Italian media where it is repeatedly announced that "everything is OK and under control, please return to your cabin".

The behaviour of Costa is deplorable.

http://video.corriere.it/sulla-concordia-tutto-sotto-controllo-tornate-cabina/e32caa7a-42e1-11e1-8207-8bde7a1445db
I thought Flyer Talkers were smarter than to believe SkyNews.

Monica Bova is no "Cruise Boss". She is (was) the Asst. Cruise Director on the Costa ship that went down. In other words, a week ago she was teaching folks how to do the Hokey Pokey. She said stupid things, I'm sure there's a corporate policy against employees speaking publicaly about the company, but she is in no way a representative of Costa or Carnival. And Sky News is feeding into the frenzy by making her seem to be someone of importance.

Even under calm seas and ideal conditions with a full crew working, it easily take 30 minutes to load the typical 150 pax into those tendor boats before it can be launched.

30 minutes?

Wow. Glad I haven't been on NCL! On Princess and Celebrity, they get a full tender going in well under 10 minutes. And that's with tote bags and bottles of water and maps and all the other crap we take ashore when we tender.

Meanwhile, in an evacuation, you'd be loading 5 or 6 or more of these at one time.

Costs is apparently moving itself further from the captain

Costa in recent days has suspended Schettino, announced it is no longer paying his legal fees and has signed on as a civil party in the prosecution, a move that positions it as an injured party and would allow it to seek damages in the case of a guilty verdict.

Has Lloyds any grounds to refuse to settle the claim?

I would say the main reason for flagging the ships abroad is taxation. And second is labor regulations.

Among the various reasons why mainstream cruise ships aren't US flagged is because the ships have to be substantially built in the US. NCL received an exemption for 3 ships to be US flagged, one of which, the Pride of America, was started in Mississippi before the original customer went bankrupt. NCL bought it, and the pieces of the sister ship, and took them to Germany where they were completed. Part of this deal also allowed NCL to reflag a third ship, which has since been re-flagged back to it's original foreign state, as was the second Mississippi ship.

There is more new information about Costa Concordia and the final momemt of Costa Concordia. Here it is:

http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16152139

Here the video of Costa Concordia on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlMNWT832Tc

See how beautiful cruise ship is. I watched whole video that I see a restaurant, lounge, spa, exercise room, swimming pool, hot tubs, dining room, casino, theatres and etc.

Also, there is some of those people who survived from the cruise ship. Here it is:

http://cruiseforums.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1548951

You can watch footage who searching for missing people onboard the cruise ship. Here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dExCBtmL8FY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMJ6lygXh6s

Looking more closely at photos of the 100+' gash in CONCORDIA's Port Quarter, I have to question:

1. Adequacy of design to control/alleviate flooding.

2. Damage control systems, their redundancy and operation.

3. Location and redundancy of auxiliary/emergency power systems.

4. Performance of the ship's Engineering staff in the efforts to control flooding and maintain power.

Yes, there was a substantial breach in the ship's watertight integrity, allowing massive flooding, but no modern "cruise ship" (or most other commercial vessels) should have been lost due to that level of damage, unless there were faulty design elements, inadequate crew performance in damage control efforts (or in this case, a combination of both).

Undoubtedly, the Captain (whether on the bridge or not) and the Officer of the Watch ("OOD" in naval terms) are absolutely responsible for taking the ship so far inshore that she grounded. No matter how extensive, accurate, sophisticated and high-tech the electronic navigational systems may have been, the failure to exercise required care and caution in the traditional, centuries old art of coastal piloting, a "Beginners' Course" in every maritime academy remains absolutely inexcusable.

At least Columbus could claim "uncharted waters" as the cause of his allowing SANTA MARIA to run aground and become a constructive loss. CONCORDIA's Captain, navigation and conning officers can't use that excuse after a series of gross errors and negligence. That old quote from John Paul Jones about "Harm's Way" applies to wars and emergencies, not to routine cruising.

Undoubtedly, the Captain (whether on the bridge or not) and the Officer of the Watch ("OOD" in naval terms) are absolutely responsible for taking the ship so far inshore that she grounded

Or in this case OOO...

The captain who made the close pass last August was taking the same risk in the same place, where the charts have questionable accuracy, and he had permission from Costa to do so. So I think Costa gets a portion of the blame for permitting this kind of lax behavior, taking a huge risk for themselves, the passengers and the environment, even though they did not give explicit permission in the case.

The captain who made the close pass last August was taking the same risk in the same place, where the charts have questionable accuracy,

I think the jury is still out on the chart issue. As someone familiar with shipping told me this week "This is Italy where they've run ships around their coast for 1000 years. If someone skips pebbles into the sea, they chart it." The area this happened isn't an isolated cove either. So, is the chart wrong, or did the captain mis-read it, or did some other bridge officer mis-read it after the captain told him to sail by Giglio?

From the BBC: (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16666669)

The body of a woman has been found on board the Italian cruise ship that ran aground and capsized a week ago, bringing the known death toll to 12.

The woman, who was wearing a life jacket, was found by divers on the fourth deck of the Costa Concordia.

Twenty people are still missing

Now the unpleasant choice seems to be to continue searching for more victims, or even possible survivors, or to start emptying the ship from fuel.

While most travel agents are more focused on commissions than the safety of their clients, my concern is that by Costa management and the powerful coalition of Italian shipbuilders, labor unions, investors and politicians putting all the blame on human error, there will be a cover up in the investigation of why the safety systems, intended to maintain balance and avoid or postpone listing, didn't operate, which prevented the life boats from being deployed on both sides of the vessel. If this reflects a fundamental design flaw, then the implications for the industry are significant indeed.

Life boats on passenger ships are only operable in relatively stable conditions but ships have enough life rafts as well. You may have to jump into the sea and get yourself to the raft, though. It goes without saying that not all cruisers will make it.

Passengers should actually be aware of the risks when booking their cruise. Not exactly something that is very clearly brought up in the advertising ...

On freight vessels, there may be only one life boat but it is launched differently. It can be launched also in rough conditions. See "Freefall lifeboats" here. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifeboat_(shipboard))

Passengers should actually be aware of the risks when booking their cruise. Not exactly something that is very clearly brought up in the advertising ...[/URL]

The risk some idiot would sail way too close to shore, tear a hole in the side of the ship hundreds of feet long, and then lie to the passengers telling them everything is OK, head on back to your cabin? I mean we could get you in life boats, but I've asked they send a few tug boats, so don't worry about anything.

How exactly should they add that to the advertising videos?

I don't think there was a sing'e disaster planning session for any cruise line where this sequence of events would have ever come up as a possibility.

This was not a risk. This was a comedy of errors, and the sequence of events was totally caused by the mistakes made by the crew of the ship.

The risk some idiot would sail way too close to shore, tear a hole in the side of the ship hundreds of feet long, and then lie to the passengers telling them everything is OK, head on back to your cabin? I mean we could get you in life boats, but I've asked they send a few tug boats, so don't worry about anything.

How exactly should they add that to the advertising videos?

I don't think there was a sing'e disaster planning session for any cruise line where this sequence of events would have ever come up as a possibility.

This was not a risk. This was a comedy of errors, and the sequence of events was totally caused by the mistakes made by the crew of the ship.

I understand your frustration, but there is clearly a risk in all navigation. And if you are old or in a wheelchair, you run a considerably higher risk of not being able to cope in an emergency situation, also at sea.

Based on some posts here and elsewhere, some passengers may have been mislead to think that big ships are fool proof and even if something happens, the available rescue equipment will always save you. They also expect that the crew is both trained to and capable of handling emergencies (something they are actually entitled to expect).

There are probably people that are going on a cruise just like they go to Las Vegas. Some people, on the other hand, have learnt to respect the sea ever since their childhood.

We have more update Costa Concordia. The Italy navy diver who found more passenger onboard the cruise ship.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2012/01/21/20120121PNI0121-wir-italy-cruise-ship-aground.html

If they had started releasing some life boats too soon, it's possible that they would have been run over by the ship after it made a 180 degree turn and retraced it's path in the opposite direction. Or at least the boats in the water could have limited the crew's options on which direction to head resulting in a worse outcome. I'm not trying to make excuses for the delay or the incorrect information given to the passengers. But it seems kind of logical to speculate from looking at the ship's path posted in the Wikipedia article.

True, but they could also have just got close to the port, dropped anchor and started sending out life boats. They will probably contribute the flooding to the listing of the ship in their little about face to head back.

Nobody here will know what the thought process was on the ship, who was calling the shots, and what abilities they had to change course, and what the discussions with their Operations Center was.

In the end, it's probably going to come down to everybody involved both on the ship and in the operations center, made some horrible mistakes.

(CBS News) GIGLIO, Italy -- Police divers have recovered what they describe as a hard drive and two cameras from the bridge of the Costa Concordia.

Authotirites hope that will give them more information about exactly what happened the night of the accident a week ago, when the luxury ocean liner ran aground and capsized.

Now that's gonna make for some good TV

(Reuters) - The captain of the cruise liner that capsized off Italy's coast has told prosecutors the vessel's operators, Costa Cruises, instructed him to perform a manoeuvre that brought it too close to shore, according to leaked transcripts of his questioning.
...
"It was planned, we should have done it a week earlier but it was not possible because of bad weather," Schettino said.

"They insisted. They said: 'We do tourist navigation, we have to be seen, get publicity and greet the island'."

Unfortunately, the credibility of the captain is currently not running very high. It seems clear that Costa had approved similar "Salutes" in the past, but no-one can hardly blame them from ordering the captain to steer for the rocks. Maybe for emphasizing PR before security.

The captain who made the close pass last August was taking the same risk in the same place, where the charts have questionable accuracy, and he had permission from Costa to do so. So I think Costa gets a portion of the blame for permitting this kind of lax behavior, taking a huge risk for themselves, the passengers and the environment, even though they did not give explicit permission in the case.
Obviously that other captain didn't ground his boat, probably because the other salute was planned.

Schettino was doing his navigation by eye.

The captain who made the close pass last August was taking the same risk in the same place, where the charts have questionable accuracy, and he had permission from Costa to do so. So I think Costa gets a portion of the blame for permitting this kind of lax behavior, taking a huge risk for themselves, the passengers and the environment, even though they did not give explicit permission in the case.I think the jury is still out on the chart issue.From what I've seen of the recorded track from August, the ship was (critically) rather further away from the coast where the rocks are, even though she was a bit closer to the coast when she passed by the harbour. Without full investigation, it's impossible to know for sure; but this would be entirely consistent with a properly planned and executed close pass - the terrain avoidance would have been fully planned.

In contrast, if the reports about this captain's unplanned "hand flying" are correct, all of that planned margin simply ceases to exist.

You know... The more that comes to light about this... The more I slowly stand there shaking my head...

It is a tragedy for the families of those poor soles who have been taking so unfairly whilst on their vacation/holiday and I feel for them.

I am sure there will be more that comes to light in relation to this before it is over which will leave me even more speechless.

However, having watched "Cruise Ship Diaries" on some random Sky TV channel at some time, it did not instil me with confidence in Costa and certainly did not sell a safety conscious environment.

Either way, it is a terribly sad event, and whoever turns out to be to blame for this needs to be taken to task appropriately.

Searchers have found the bodies of two women on the wreck of the cruise ship Costa Concordia, bringing the confirmed death toll to 15.

The BBC's Luisa Baldini, on the Tuscan island of Giglio, says the bodies of the two women were found near the internet cafe, on the fourth deck.

The article also says that pumping of fuel from the stricken vessel can proceed in tandem with the search of the wreck.

Normally, the ship's Bridge is :mad: off-limits to guests & visitors, private or otherwise, when the vessel is in motion for obvious safety & security reasons.

There are definitely exceptions to this. Depending on the captain's discretion, it's sometimes possible to get bridge tours. I was able to tour the bridge of the Royal Princess a few years ago (and for that tour it was my wife and I and another couple), and all it took was a note to the captain asking about it. Now, that said, there were security people that stayed on the bridge the entire time we were there (didn't pay enough attention to tell if they were armed or not). This was on a sea day, so the ship was underway. We were allowed to explore the entire bridge (escorted of course), talk to various officers on duty, and take pictures of pretty much anything we wanted to (we'd been told ahead of times not to take pictures of anything we were told not to, but when we got to the bridge, we were never told not to take pictures of anything).

There are definitely exceptions to this. Depending on the captain's discretion, it's sometimes possible to get bridge tours. I was able to tour the bridge of the Royal Princess a few years ago (and for that tour it was my wife and I and another couple), and all it took was a note to the captain asking about it. Now, that said, there were security people that stayed on the bridge the entire time we were there (didn't pay enough attention to tell if they were armed or not). This was on a sea day, so the ship was underway. We were allowed to explore the entire bridge (escorted of course), talk to various officers on duty, and take pictures of pretty much anything we wanted to (we'd been told ahead of times not to take pictures of anything we were told not to, but when we got to the bridge, we were never told not to take pictures of anything).


Princess and Carnival both do ship tours (for a sometimes hefty fee) that includes a trip the bridge while at sea. I did the tour on the Carnival Pride a couple years ago ($95 for about 4 hours), and it concluded with about a half hour on the bridge with the captain and a few other officers. We weren't allowed to take cameras on the tour, but they had a photographer who met us at various points of the tour and we got those pictures as part of the price. I had been on several cruise ship bridges but that was the only time while at sea. Even though I have been up on the deck on top of the bridge while at sea, it seemed like a totally different perspective while actually on the bridge. Not exactly sure why.

Also on the RCI Navigator of the Seas, (and I presume it's 4 sister ships) they had what they call the "Peek-a-boo Bridge" which is a window from the deck immediately above and behind the bridge which looks right down onto the center control console of the bridge. I was able to take several pictures zoomed down onto the screens to see speed, course, water depth, winds, etc.

It’s an offer they can refuse.

Carnival Corp. is pitching a tasteless “30 percent discount on future cruises” to survivors of its deadly Costa Concordia shipwreck off the Italian coast, in an apparent bid to stave off lawsuits.

The tactless move by Costa Cruises, a subsidiary of Carnival, came as rescuers pulled a 13th body from the crashed cruise liner, reports surfaced of possibly unaccounted-for stowaways killed in the disaster — and investigators hunted for a laptop computer hurriedly discarded by the disgraced ship captain.


Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/wait_there_more_PidmMh9ghuAW2ZOYYtYR7J#ixzz1kLB58d Y4

Really who is doing their public relations, Daffy Duck?

I was on a Silversea cruise this past summer which offered a tour of the bridge during the days at sea. You had to sign up at least 12 hours in advance to attend (supposedly a security thing), but the tour was free (and quite interesting).

It’s an offer they can refuse.

Carnival Corp. is pitching a tasteless “30 percent discount on future cruises” to survivors of its deadly Costa Concordia shipwreck off the Italian coast, in an apparent bid to stave off lawsuits.

The tactless move by Costa Cruises, a subsidiary of Carnival, came as rescuers pulled a 13th body from the crashed cruise liner, reports surfaced of possibly unaccounted-for stowaways killed in the disaster — and investigators hunted for a laptop computer hurriedly discarded by the disgraced ship captain.


Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/wait_there_more_PidmMh9ghuAW2ZOYYtYR7J#ixzz1kLB58d Y4

Really who is doing their public relations, Daffy Duck?

I saw this story written up in the Calgary Herald.. and was regarded by the passengers as a cheap way of trying to amends by the affected passengers..

Any legal basis, for the class action lawsuits brewing? Passengers are collectively seeking into the hundreds of millions for compensation..

Interestingly/strangely enough CCL's stock is up about 10% from its opening price last Tuesday. Granted Carnival is much larger and stronger than Costa but still...
I received an 'everything's okay' email from the Chairman of Royal Caribbean this morning. The entire industry is obviously effected by this.
There should be some tempting deals in the short-term. Speaking of which, I think I will check vacationstogo.

Carnival Corp. is pitching a tasteless “30 percent discount on future cruises” to survivors of its deadly Costa Concordia shipwreck off the Italian coast, in an apparent bid to stave off lawsuits.This story is being widely reported. But some reports include a statement from Costa which is rather more believable: the full refund plus 30% discount on a future cruise is being offered to those who were booked on subsequent Concordia cruises which have now been cancelled as a result of the accident, and not to those who were on the accident cruise itself. That is broadly in line with common industry practice when a cruise has had to be cancelled.

Time will tell whether there has been straight misreporting, or whether Costa's clarifying statement is not true, or whether Costa staff have been mistakenly offering this to people who were on the accident cruise.

This story is being widely reported. But some reports include a statement from Costa which is rather more believable: the full refund plus 30% discount on a future cruise is being offered to those who were booked on subsequent Concordia cruises which have now been cancelled as a result of the accident, and not to those who were on the accident cruise itself. That is broadly in line with common industry practice when a cruise has had to be cancelled.

Time will tell whether there has been straight misreporting, or whether Costa's clarifying statement is not true, or whether Costa staff have been mistakenly offering this to people who were on the accident cruise.

Admittedly I've done no research on this, but I'd bet my hat the folks on the ill fated cruise get a full refund and at least 30% discounts in the future, as will everyone else who had a cruise scheduled and canceled due to the sinking. This is not to try to stave off lawsuits, this is common practice when something goes wrong on a cruise which then affects future voyages.

But it's a good headline when the media can suggest they are trying to do this to wipe the slate clean.

They have said multiple times that everybody was getting a full refund, that's not at all even an issue.

A week and a half after the Titanic-like cruise disaster off the coast of Italy, Costa Cruises is offering all passengers who were aboard the Costa Concordia on Jan. 13 a full refund, including travel expenses “incurred both reaching the port of embarkation and on the homeward journey.”

The company said Monday that on-board expenses will be refunded, and that it “will reimburse any medical expenses incurred as a result of the accident,” according to a statement issued by a Miami public relations firm representing Costa Cruises North America.

The problem is once again their PR people don't have a clue what they were doing. The 30% off deal has changed it's tone at least five times since it was reported, partly because each official spokesperson is saying something totally different. The simplest thing of the PR firm handling all communications and making sure all the official spokes people are saying the same thing just isn't happening.

Even if the media got it wrong (despite them quoting a Costa spokesperson) there was no attempt by Costa or their hiding under the rocks PR firm to set the record right, it's dribbling out in bits and pieces. Carnivals missing CEO needs to get on a plane, go to Italy, and stand in front of the ship and say what Carnival will do for the people.

No wait, they can't do that as they are trying to pretend Carnival and Costa have no connection.

They also said yesterday

Costa Cruises also said that “every effort will be made to return the valuables left in the cabin safe.”

but apparently have backed off from earlier statements they would reimburse people for things they lost.

It's been well over a week now, there should be a very clear statement saying what they will and won't cover by now.

A week and a half after the Titanic-like cruise disaster off the coast of Italy, Costa Cruises is offering all passengers who were aboard the Costa Concordia on Jan. 13 a full refund, including travel expenses “incurred both reaching the port of embarkation and on the homeward journey.”

The company said Monday that on-board expenses will be refunded, and that it “will reimburse any medical expenses incurred as a result of the accident,” according to a statement issued by a Miami public relations firm representing Costa Cruises North America.

I'd say that's all pretty normal. With Princess, on the Crown tilt cruise, entire cruise fare was refunded (but not onboard expenses, which to me was fairly reasonable in the circumstances). Travel expenses home were covered (and no real quibbling over that, I ended up with first class tickets because it was about all that was available last minute, and had no problems with that - of course, my FC tickets were cheaper than some of the coach tickets I was hearing about). Hotel and cab fare for the night we arrived back in NY from the flight before we could pick the car up the next day. In that case, Princess also covered damaged property (at least we didn't have any problems, but our claims weren't that high, a cell phone, camera, and a library book that were water damaged, but the covered all that without an argument).

They probably won't come out and publicly announce what compensation they're giving those on the cruise. I'm guessing partly so they don't set a precedent for future incidents, and partly because quite honestly, it's going to vary some by the individual circumstances - I know people on our cruise that got injured received different compensation packages than those that didn't. Also, I know that people that helped out with first aid in the dining room were compensated differently (we had numerous EMT and doctor's on board from NY, my wife helped out because she at least had first aid training, and they were looking for all the help they could get). So just based on my experience, there won't be a blanket answer to how they compensate people.

I'd say that's all pretty normal.

I agree. Look at during hurricane season when a ship is delayed a day, and the compensation they offer. In the early 2000's there was a rash of ship propulsion problems with a particular brand of azimuth pods, and several ships had to go in to drydock for emergency repairs (Celebrity comes to mind on this), and offered pretty generous compensation packages to people who's cruises had to be re-scheduled. Our Sept 2001 cruise from New York was moved to Boston because of 9-11 and Carnival offered is $200 each on board credit to keep the cruise or would let us cancel without penalty.

Also not sure about the previous poster's statement about Carnival distancing itself from Costa. I have seen many tweets from Mickey Arison about this, and Carnival Cruise Lines have had many updates on their Facebook page, even though it's not a Carnival Cruise Lines ship.

Tweets and Facebook don't count. He needs to become visible, get in front of a camera, do an interview, do the news shows and explain what went wrong and what they are doing for the people involved.

He's hiding behind the keyboard and a PR firm, not a single Carnival or Costa person has stepped up to take charge of the situation. Indeed, many in the media are asking exactly where Mr Arison has been these past eleven or so days.

Wall Street Journal
Carnival CEO Lies Low After Wreck
Where is Micky Arison?

The chief executive, chairman and part owner of Carnival Corp. has largely kept himself and Carnival out of the spotlight since one of the company's ships struck rocks off the Italian coast Jan. 13.

Forbes
Strategist John Tschohl, author of “Achieving Excellence Through Customer Service,” called out Arison, Carnival’s chief executive, chairman and part owner of Carnival. “Five tweets from CEO Micky Arison, who has yet to appear at the wreck site,” Tschohl wrote in an email message. “This is downright insulting.”

Miami Herald
The approach follows Carnival’s strategy of treating its cruise lines as independent businesses. And it may have the added benefit of distancing Carnival Corp.’s No. 1 brand, Carnival Cruise Lines, from the Costa crisis. But critics see Arison as dodging the spotlight over a deadly accident rattling the entire cruising industry.

“Micky Arison should come out, and take ownership, and get in front of the story,’’ said Julie Silver Talenfeld, president of Boardroom Communications, a public relations firm in Plantation.


Pretty sure this carnival update sums up their intent of releasing any information

Hi, everyone. Out of respect for all those affected by the recent events surrounding our sister line, Costa cruises, we are going to take a bit of a break from posting on our social channels

Everybody in the bomb shelter, close the doors, the pesky media is back out there.

Also not sure where the many tweets from him are coming from, since the incident he has tweeted

Well it's Friday the 13th-our lucky day. (he probably should have deleted that one)

Tonight our thoughts and prayers are with the passengers and crew of the CostaConcordia.

Since Friday night, I’ve been focused on the response to this tragedy. I want to thank you all for your support this week.

I am deeply saddened by reports of more deaths following the grounding of #Concordia. (Cont)My condolence statement is attached

I won’t be as active on Twitter for the next while. Helping our @costacruises team manage this crisis is my priority right now. Thnx

I gave my personal assurance that we will take care of each &every one of our guests, crew and their families c link

We just announced a comprehensive Audit &Review of Safety & Emergency Response Across All our Cruise Lines-link

That's six tweets in eleven days saying pretty much nothing.

This story is being widely reported. But some reports include a statement from Costa which is rather more believable: the full refund plus 30% discount on a future cruise is being offered to those who were booked on subsequent Concordia cruises which have now been cancelled as a result of the accident, and not to those who were on the accident cruise itself. That is broadly in line with common industry practice when a cruise has had to be cancelled.

Time will tell whether there has been straight misreporting, or whether Costa's clarifying statement is not true, or whether Costa staff have been mistakenly offering this to people who were on the accident cruise.

Admittedly I've done no research on this, but I'd bet my hat the folks on the ill fated cruise get a full refund and at least 30% discounts in the future, as will everyone else who had a cruise scheduled and canceled due to the sinking. This is not to try to stave off lawsuits, this is common practice when something goes wrong on a cruise which then affects future voyages.

But it's a good headline when the media can suggest they are trying to do this to wipe the slate clean.

With the customer service treatment happening, the discount offered is moot to the victims..

I'm sure the ticket terms and conditions limit the carrier's liability.. perhaps thats why the stock shot up a bit.. but still, if the stock is higher than prior to the accident (I don't know as I haven't checked), then that would be an anomaly.

I'm sure the ticket terms and conditions limit the carrier's liability.. perhaps thats why the stock shot up a bit.. but still, if the stock is higher than prior to the accident (I don't know as I haven't checked), then that would be an anomaly.

They lost something like 17% on the Monday with only the London market open. They are a couple bucks lower right now than they were on the 13th, but have rebounded a bit since the initial drop. I read on cruise critic that cruise bookings in general are up 3% in the last week, but not sure compared to what.

With the customer service treatment happening, the discount offered is moot to the victims.Costa has now confirmed that the offer of a discount on future cruises was not made to those on the accident cruise. Moreover, it seems possible that the news reports which purportedly quoted people on the accident cruise may have fabricated those quotes:-Tuesday, January 24th 2012

Time 3.00 pm (CET)

With reference to news reports on discounts and promotional offers, Costa Cruises feels bound to point out that the company has never offered any discount on future cruises to guests who were on board the Costa Concordia for the cruise of January 13th and involved in the tragic accident. The information published by a newspaper and reported in various news outlets is totally unfounded, as is confirmed by the English passenger who was quoted by the newspaper.

Costa Cruises reiterates that after the tragic accident the company’s priority has always been to provide the maximum possible assistance and solace to the people involved. From the outset the company has been fully aware of and saddened by the suffering and hardship endured by guests and crew members and has acted with this firmly borne in mind.

On a joint basis with rescue teams, the Company worked to provide evacuated passengers and crew members with all the necessary assistance to ensure they were able to return home. Subsequently it contacted guests by telephone, after they had returned home, to check on their physical and emotional wellbeing, and to confirm that they will receive a refund for the cruise and all material expenses relating to it.

As already announced, the company welcomes discussion with its guests and all consumer protection associations to determine indemnity for the hardship endured, with the support of tourism sector trade associations with which it has been in contact for days.

Driven by its sense of ethics and the values of fairness and responsibility which guide it, the Company has also given all customers with bookings for future Costa cruises the possibility, if feeling afraid, to cancel their cruise booking by giving notice no later than February 7th. All travel agents who work with the Company were informed of this days ago.

Costa Cruises would also like to clarify that starting on the day after the accident, all advertising initiatives planned were cancelled out of respect for those affected by this tragedy. The Company was unable to stop only one postal promotion which had already been sent to some customers at the end of December.

Costa Cruises is incredulous at the disgraceful and unfounded assertions made about the Company without any form of verification.

They lost something like 17% on the Monday with only the London market open. They are a couple bucks lower right now than they were on the 13th, but have rebounded a bit since the initial drop. I read on cruise critic that cruise bookings in general are up 3% in the last week, but not sure compared to what.

Carnival stock in the US was $34 and change before the accident, and it dropped approximately $5 the Tuesday afterwards. It's running $31 and change right now I believe, so it's not back to where it was, but also not really down much. (I was paying attention because I do own some Carnival stock, for someone that cruises on a Carnival Corp company, it's worth having 100 shares because of onboard credit offers they give to shareholders.)

No idea what it did on the UK market, since it's also listed there.

No idea what it did on the UK market, since it's also listed there.

It dropped from £2260 on Friday the 13th to £1865 on Monday the 16th. Today it closed at £1946.37.

Link: http://www.google.com/finance?q=LON%3ACCL&hl=en

They lost something like 17% on the Monday with only the London market open. They are a couple bucks lower right now than they were on the 13th, but have rebounded a bit since the initial drop. I read on cruise critic that cruise bookings in general are up 3% in the last week, but not sure compared to what.

This stock activity would make sense.. a sudden drop and rebound when the bottom line is assessed.

Costa is putting a spin on things.. sounds like they are questioning the victims.. even if they didn't offer the 30% off to victims, Costa shouldn't be confirming anything right now..

A large number of people in the United States just received special offers in their American Express statements for discounted cruises from February to October on the Concordia.

It is viral on the web at the moment.

Unbelievable.

Oh also in the Washington Post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/costa-concordia-cruises-american-express-offer-immerse-yourself/2012/01/25/gIQAnntJQQ_blog.html

Anyone still taking bets on which day next week the CEO resigns for "personal reasons"?

The Wall Street Journal is reporting that the Captain kept the company informed as the disaster was unfolding:

Here's the link to the paywalled-article:

Wall Street Journal:
Italian Cruise Ship Operator Knew of Crisis
Chief Executive Testifies That Company Was Aware of Damage Within Minutes
JANUARY 26, 2012
(http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203806504577183222389672472.html)

The article opens with this line:
ROME—Costa Crociere, operator of the shipwrecked Costa Concordia, learned the vessel was flooding from a collision off the coast of Tuscany within minutes of the accident and more than an hour before passengers were instructed to evacuate the ship, according to testimony the company delivered to the Italian Senate on Wednesday.

Here's the link to the paywalled-article:

Wall Street Journal:
Italian Cruise Ship Operator Knew of Crisis
Chief Executive Testifies That Company Was Aware of Damage Within Minutes
JANUARY 26, 2012
(http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203806504577183222389672472.html)M ay be available to some via Google (http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&newwindow=1&safe=off&q=Italian+Cruise+Ship+Operator+Knew+of+Crisis+Chie f+Executive+Testifies+That+Company+Was+Aware+of+Da mage+Within+Minutes&oq=Italian+Cruise+Ship+Operator+Knew+of+Crisis+Chi ef+Executive+Testifies+That+Company+Was+Aware+of+D amage+Within+Minutes&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=72741l73236l0l73468l2l2l0l0l0l0l0l0ll0l0), if not directly.

A large number of people in the United States just received special offers in their American Express statements for discounted cruises from February to October on the Concordia.

It is viral on the web at the moment.

Unbelievable.

Oh also in the Washington Post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/costa-concordia-cruises-american-express-offer-immerse-yourself/2012/01/25/gIQAnntJQQ_blog.html

Anyone still taking bets on which day next week the CEO resigns for "personal reasons"?

ROFL:D

This has got to be the biggest marketing blunder this year..

This has got to be the biggest marketing blunder this year..I think Costa has said that this is something that was already being processed, and they couldn't stop it.

I think Costa has said that this is something that was already being processed, and they couldn't stop it.

Yet another excuse.

Yet another excuse.Except that similar things do often happen to other companies after such events.

Except that similar things do often happen to other companies after such events.

Agreed.

This entire situation however could have been prevented.

Italian media is reporting today that the company is wanting to settle for 11 000 EUR per passenger FYI.

http://www.corriere.it/cronache/12_gennaio_27/rimborso-naufraghi-costa-concordia_89b49138-48c2-11e1-b976-995c60acee8e.shtml

Agreed.

This entire situation however could have been prevented.

Italian media is reporting today that the company is wanting to settle for 11 000 EUR per passenger FYI.

http://www.corriere.it/cronache/12_gennaio_27/rimborso-naufraghi-costa-concordia_89b49138-48c2-11e1-b976-995c60acee8e.shtml

Using Google Translate, it looks like the 11K Euroes are for personal affects and the general trauma of the evacuation, not for injuries suffered. And only payable to those passengers who agree to these terms.

The table of comparison, organized by Confindustria Astoi, has established a lump sum of 11,000 euros per person in compensation "to cover any damage to property and suffered, including those related to the loss of baggage and personal effects, to psychological distress and damage suffered by holiday ruined."

They are also providing counseling, trying to retrieve and return items from cabin safes and anything else recovered, and other efforts.

ABC is offering a few more details of the offer

Almost two weeks after the Costa Concordia cruise ship sank off the coast of Italy, leaving at least 16 people dead and 19 missing, Costa Cruises is offering uninjured passengers $14,460, or 11,000 euros each to compensate for mental trauma and lost baggage.

Costa Crociere S.p.A., doing business as Costa Cruises, which owned the cruise ship that carried about 4,200 people, announced the agreement on Friday. The company negotiated with Italian consumer groups who say they represent 3,206 cruise ship passengers from 61 countries without physical injuries, the Associated Press reported.

Costa Cruises said it is also reimbursing passengers for the full costs of their cruise and travel and medical expenses incurred after the grounding.

It goes on to say that 'those who don't want the offer can take legal action on their own.

If I were on board, and survived I would take the offer.

The story goes on to mention that Carnival is still hiding their heads in the sand missing yet another chance to get out in front of a camera and pretend like they care about the passengers

Carnival Corp. did not respond to ABC News' requests for comment but Carnival's CEO said in a statement: "This tragedy has called into question our company's safety and emergency response policies and procedures."

My assumption (based just on review of press information) is that the company is struggling between marketing, finance and legal. They are unable to agree on a strategy. They are still figuring out whether their insurance will help them and, if so, for how much. The lenders are on their backs because the ship was security for 100's of millions in loans.

In other words, they are still trying to figure out how to save the company.

In other words, they are still trying to figure out how to save the company.

That sounds a little overstated (ok, a lot overstated). They might be trying to figure out how to save the company money, but the company itself isn't at risk here. I agree that as time has passed, Arison hasn't publicly handled this well at all.

Carnival stock in the US was $34 and change before the accident, and it dropped approximately $5 the Tuesday afterwards. It's running $31 and change right now I believe, so it's not back to where it was, but also not really down much. (I was paying attention because I do own some Carnival stock, for someone that cruises on a Carnival Corp company, it's worth having 100 shares because of onboard credit offers they give to shareholders.)

(Bolding mine)

That's not known by most of the traveling public but, for those who are frequent cruisers, it's a great deal.

A large number of people in the United States just received special offers in their American Express statements for discounted cruises from February to October on the Concordia.

It is viral on the web at the moment.

Unbelievable.

Oh also in the Washington Post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/costa-concordia-cruises-american-express-offer-immerse-yourself/2012/01/25/gIQAnntJQQ_blog.html

Anyone still taking bets on which day next week the CEO resigns for "personal reasons"?

I think Costa has said that this is something that was already being processed, and they couldn't stop it.

Yet another excuse.

It may be an excuse, but it's a valid one. You can't just call the printer and ask them to stop the run.

Having said that, the PR on this one has been a nightmare. There should be one person controlling the message. Not two. Not one from each division. Not the Costa guy and his monkey. One.

Mike

With this latest offer, Costa seems to be making an effort to resolve.

ROFL:D

This has got to be the biggest marketing blunder this year..

You aren't kidding. We received that ad last week in the mail and I had to blink a few times.. "Hey honey, isn't this the ship that just sank??"

You aren't kidding. We received that ad last week in the mail and I had to blink a few times.. "Hey honey, isn't this the ship that just sank??"

:D

Costa better hurry up on the clean up.. was reading in the paper today that there is a thin film of fuel contaminating the ocean.. They better pump out the fuel sooner than later..

:D

Costa better hurry up on the clean up.. was reading in the paper today that there is a thin film of fuel contaminating the ocean.. They better pump out the fuel sooner than later..

The ship is moving so it is not possible.

# How do they serve alcoholic drinks on Italian cruise ships ? - On the
rocks

# What vegetables do you get with dinner on Italian cruise ships ? -
Leeks

# What's the fastest way to get off an Italian cruise ship ? - Follow
the captain

# When the captain of the ill fated Costa Concordia was asked if he
knew where he was going he replied "off course."

# So the captain of the Costa Concordia will soon be in the dock.
That's more than can be said for his ship.


# The Costa Concordia is probably the most expensive thing to go down
in Italy since Berlusconi's last hooker.

# What's the difference between the Italian economy and the stricken
cruise liner Costa Concordia ?
Nothing - The bottoms dropped out of both.

What will the Costa Concordia be called after it has been raised and repaired? - Cost-a Lot

May be a good way to get some deals though if this trend continues

The capsizing of a mega cruise ship off the coast of Italy last month has slowed demand for new cruises at Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd., the world's second-largest cruise operator.

New reservations for cruises from North America were down in the weeks after the accident compared to the same period last year, Royal Caribbean said Thursday in an earnings report.

My Cousin Sir Moses Montefiore was born in Livorno!!!

May be a good way to get some deals though if this trend continues

The capsizing of a mega cruise ship off the coast of Italy last month has slowed demand for new cruises at Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd., the world's second-largest cruise operator.

New reservations for cruises from North America were down in the weeks after the accident compared to the same period last year, Royal Caribbean said Thursday in an earnings report.

Awesome.. I almost booked Royal Carribean for a western mediterranean cruise.. so hopefully a sale will occur to help stimulate activity. Shall keep my eyes open and my fingers ready to book..

The ship is moving so it is not possible.

Was reading article in Calgary Herald today, that 4 diesel fuel tanks have been empty, but 2 remains and not emptied due to inclement weather.. Looks like the ship has flipped further onto its side over the past couple of weeks in the pictures..

Awesome.. I almost booked Royal Carribean for a western mediterranean cruise.. so hopefully a sale will occur to help stimulate activity. Shall keep my eyes open and my fingers ready to book..


Given the monumental effort needed to salvage a large ship of this type, I am fairly certain I will see the Costa Concordia on my Med cruise in late May. The itinerary takes us right by Giglio on our way into Civitavecchia.

Given the monumental effort needed to salvage a large ship of this type, I am fairly certain I will see the Costa Concordia on my Med cruise in late May. The itinerary takes us right by Giglio on our way into Civitavecchia.

Premium paid to experience a relic.. along of the lines of the Titanic..

Which cruise ship company is offering this?:D

Premium paid to experience a relic.. along of the lines of the Titanic..

Which cruise ship company is offering this?:D

Heh heh... let's just say thankfully it's not Costa. I've sailed with the same captain before, he seems like a man with significantly better judgement. Then again, he is French. He may just ram the wreck of the Concordia just to prove a point. :)

Given the monumental effort needed to salvage a large ship of this type, I am fairly certain I will see the Costa Concordia on my Med cruise in late May. The itinerary takes us right by Giglio on our way into Civitavecchia.

Hopefully your captain stays on course so you'll be several miles away. Also if you are heading intoi Civi, it might still be dark out.

Hopefully your captain stays on course so you'll be several miles away. Also if you are heading intoi Civi, it might still be dark out.

The itinerary shows that we sail out of Portofino at 6PM and head south. I am guessing the wreck will be lit by the ships working the salvage operation.

Hopefully your captain stays on course so you'll be several miles away. Also if you are heading intoi Civi, it might still be dark out.

Unless your Captain diverts from the norm, you may see only the loom of lights hidden behind Giglio's "Height of land".

I pulled out my old "Sailing Directions" for the Western Med, 50 years old, salvaged from a decommissioned Navy ship, but provided to my ship long ago, so that we might know what to expect from commercial vessels. An aircraft carrier dodges about at high speed, poking its bow into the wind for extended periods every 1 1/2 hours or so, and having some reasonable feel for probable course changes of traffic in the vicinity.

Genoa, La Spezia, Rappallo/Portofino/Sta. Margarita routing to Cittavechia commonly used a passage to seaward of both Elba and Giglio due to traffic, etc.. Any time saved by inshore sailing was likely to require reduced speed.

No cruise line and no Captain really wants to remind you of the perils of the sea, and a really big ship hard aground on its beam ends is an embarrassment to the profession.

Heh heh... let's just say thankfully it's not Costa. I've sailed with the same captain before, he seems like a man with significantly better judgement. Then again, he is French. He may just ram the wreck of the Concordia just to prove a point. :)

Hopefully your captain stays on course so you'll be several miles away. Also if you are heading intoi Civi, it might still be dark out.

You would think with technology nowadays, that computers would prevent a grounding accident like Costa from happening..

You would think with technology nowadays, that computers would prevent a grounding accident like Costa from happening..

When the Captain had the conn (AKA "was driving the hulk"), waited too long before turning and then didn't put the pods/rudder hard over, not sensing the ship was already "in extremis", all the flashing lights and loud alarms from the computers and other electronic navigation aids were for naught.

As with many, perhaps most individuals, mariners and landsmen, all the warnings and cautionary tales around can't keep them from running aground on the rocks and shoals of life.

When the Captain had the conn (AKA "was driving the hulk"), waited too long before turning and then didn't put the pods/rudder hard over, not sensing the ship was already "in extremis", all the flashing lights and loud alarms from the computers and other electronic navigation aids were for naught.

As with many, perhaps most individuals, mariners and landsmen, all the warnings and cautionary tales around can't keep them from running aground on the rocks and shoals of life.

With alarms on.. what was the Costa captain on? Wow.. amazing..

Perhaps the captain was intoxicated and didn't want to get caught redhanded.. thus bailing ship..

With alarms on.. what was the Costa captain on? Wow.. amazing..

Perhaps the captain was intoxicated and didn't want to get caught redhanded.. thus bailing ship..

I think Capt Schettino has a cousin who is a pilot. :) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YffmapFxt0M)

I think Capt Schettino has a cousin who is a pilot. :) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YffmapFxt0M)

Ouch.. sounded like the tail was dragging right and left on the runway when landing..

What was that beeping noise in the background?

Ouch.. sounded like the tail was dragging right and left on the runway when landing..

What was that beeping noise in the background?

The gear warning horn. :)

When the throttle is at idle and the gear is not down, an alarm will sound. When pilot workload is high or in the case of the video, "sterile cockpit" was not followed, it's easy to not hear the warning. That being said, it was a perfect gear up landing.

A heartwarming article in the Telegraph:

The Telegraph:
Costa Concordia: divers launch rescue mission for boy's teddy bear
3:56PM GMT 09 Feb 2012 (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/9072265/Costa-Concordia-divers-launch-rescue-mission-for-boys-teddy-bear.html)

A heartwarming article in the Telegraph:

The Telegraph:
Costa Concordia: divers launch rescue mission for boy's teddy bear
3:56PM GMT 09 Feb 2012 (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/9072265/Costa-Concordia-divers-launch-rescue-mission-for-boys-teddy-bear.html)

Would have helped to launch the rescue mission earlier, to save a few more lives..

But a nice gesture.

Would have helped to launch the rescue mission earlier, to save a few more lives..

But a nice gesture.

What the hell are you talking about?

One of the entertainment shows was previewing the documentary on National Geographic starting tomorrow called Italian Cruise Ship Disaster. Apparently they use lots of passenger supplied video.

http://video.nationalgeographic.com/video/national-geographic-channel/specials-1/italian-cruise-ship-disaster/ngc-abandon-ship/

What the hell are you talking about?

Exactly what I posted..

Exactly what I posted.. Do you honestly believe there were no "rescue missions" until the child reported his teddy bear missing, and that lives were lost as a result?

Do you honestly believe there were no "rescue missions" until the child reported his teddy bear missing, and that lives were lost as a result?

I never said that.. just only the latest rescue mission.

Who's paying for this teddy bear rescue mission? Is it Costa?

Italian police that they found out that he have a cocaine outside the hair sample. That's why he didn't passed his drug tested. It was very urgent what happened the cruise captain who have a cocaine and they didn't found out what happened to him. He didn't passed his criminal background check.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/18/francesco-schettino-cocaine_n_1286374.html?icid=maing-grid10%7Chtmlws-main-bb%7Cdl1%7Csec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D136836

He could go to prison for rest the life. He was previously manslaughter charge and etc.

Italian police that they found out that he have a cocaine outside the hair sample. That's why he didn't passed his drug tested. It was very urgent what happened the cruise captain who have a cocaine and they didn't found out what happened to him. He didn't passed his criminal background check.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/18/francesco-schettino-cocaine_n_1286374.html?icid=maing-grid10%7Chtmlws-main-bb%7Cdl1%7Csec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D136836

He could go to prison for rest the life. He was previously manslaughter charge and etc.

The news today is saying that hair and urine samples showed he was not under the influence of any prohibited substances at the time of the incident:

http://www.corriere.it/cronache/12_febbraio_18/schettino-cocaina-indagini_eb404674-5a1d-11e1-bf04-228ddd739b1f.shtml

A semi-contrarian view.....

For all the grievous, even potentially criminal misconduct by the captain and navigation team, the inexcusable failure to evaluate the damage accurately and in timely fashion, the much described and videoed "flail" during evacuation, and no "lifeboat drill" before the grounding, the truly amazing bottom line was the small loss of life.

After a lot of days at sea aboard a "Big Grey Ship", half dozen damage control and firefighting schools, and some comprehension of the chain of events, I am surprised that the loss of life was not much higher.

A semi-contrarian view.....

For all the grievous, even potentially criminal misconduct by the captain and navigation team, the inexcusable failure to evaluate the damage accurately and in timely fashion, the much described and videoed "flail" during evacuation, and no "lifeboat drill" before the grounding, the truly amazing bottom line was the small loss of life.

After a lot of days at sea aboard a "Big Grey Ship", half dozen damage control and firefighting schools, and some comprehension of the chain of events, I am surprised that the loss of life was not much higher.

According to the analysis in the documentary that aired over the weekend on the National Geographic Channel, the minimal loss of life is attributed to the fact that once the ship lost power, it drifted back toward shore rather than out to sea. If it had drifted further out to sea, the loss of life could have been (according to their analysis) in the thousands.

The ship ended up drifting close enough to allow people (with their life vests on) to jump off the boat and swim to shore.

truly amazing bottom line was the small loss of life.

There was no need for anybody to lose their life. I'm not a big fan of the "it wasn't that bad because it could have been much worse" theory, when everybody could probably have been saved.

There was no need for anybody to lose their life. I'm not a big fan of the "it wasn't that bad because it could have been much worse" theory, when everybody could probably have been saved.

If the captain had ordered everyone to their muster stations right away, rather than waiting to issue a general "abandon ship" command much later, everyone might have gotten off within the mandated 30 minute time frame (according to the same report I referenced above).

By the way, it was a great show. I didn't expect the video from the helicopters, or the story of the dancers by themselves spotted because of the blinking rescue lights. Very moving.

According to the analysis in the documentary that aired over the weekend on the National Geographic Channel, the minimal loss of life is attributed to the fact that once the ship lost power, it drifted back toward shore rather than out to sea. If it had drifted further out to sea, the loss of life could have been (according to their analysis) in the thousands.

The ship ended up drifting close enough to allow people (with their life vests on) to jump off the boat and swim to shore.

Resting on the sea bottom was significant luck. Especially with the storm weather after a couple of days.

For the recovery, multiple times more difficult to recover a cruise ship fully submerged.

I am surprised that the loss of life was not much higher. It looks like the low loss of life was despite the command staff, not because of it, and owed everything to pure luck re: wind direction.

The thing I take away from this is the staff's compulsion to lie to the passengers. Claiming this was an "electrical problem" while the ship heeled over was patently absurd. Telling passengers to return to their rooms and relax almost certainly cost lives. I know the command chain was fractured and the captain incompetent, but that doesn't license staff to make things up. I suspect this contempt for honest communication and passenger safety is not confined to this one ship or cruise line.

For the recovery, multiple times more difficult to recover a cruise ship fully submerged.

What would be the point of that, and when has that ever happened?

The thing I take away from this is the staff's compulsion to lie to the passengers.It may be worth drawing a proper distinction between officers, staff and crew.

What would be the point of that, and when has that ever happened?

IIRC Titanic.. but it was so difficult to recover, that the rescuers gave up long ago.

IIRC Titanic.. but it was so difficult to recover, that the rescuers gave up long ago.

That was a novel.

http://www.amazon.com/Raise-Titanic-Dirk-Pitt-Adventure/dp/0425194523/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1330160882&sr=8-2

In real life the "rescuers" didn't even locate the wreckage until 1985.

There was no need for anybody to lose their life. I'm not a big fan of the "it wasn't that bad because it could have been much worse" theory, when everybody could probably have been saved.

My perspective was based on my time (long ago) at sea, heightened by my last 3 cruises in which the passenger list was heavily loaded with folks who were substantially mobility impaired. Not counting canes, simply walkers, wheelchairs and even electric "scooters", if CONCORDIA's passenger list was similar, I'm amazed that so many actually made it to the boats, after the unconscionable delay in starting preparations to abandon ship.

It may be worth drawing a proper distinction between officers, staff and crew.

Of course. And it would be very interesting to see investigators trace the information chain -- how did the "electrical problem" cover story get started? Was it prescribed from the top down, or did customer-contact staff invent it independently to mollify passengers? But it seems to me:

** Officers were lying to Coast Guard and other external parties about the nature and severity of the problem, and perhaps to staff as well
** Staff were lying to customers along similar lines, whether ordered to or not
** Below-decks crew probably knew the severity ahead of everyone else, and some took self-preservation steps independent of orders or passenger interests

The common thread is indifference to passenger safety. The undoubted heroism of some ship staff is rather overshadowed by the bigger picture. I have to say I think the encomiums from Costa about the selfless and brave crew, etc. is bollocks. IMO the information culture in place aboard Concordia got a lot of people killed.

That was a novel.

http://www.amazon.com/Raise-Titanic-Dirk-Pitt-Adventure/dp/0425194523/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1330160882&sr=8-2

In real life the "rescuers" didn't even locate the wreckage until 1985.

And the movie and book assumed the Titanic was in one piece.

It would be much more logical to compare the Costa Concordia sinking to that of the Andrea Doria (http://articles.cnn.com/2012-01-18/opinion/opinion_pecota-cruise-captain_1_piero-calamai-andrea-doria-ship?_s=PM:OPINION), rather than the Titanic. Both Italian liners, both had captains whose negligence contributed to the loss of their ship.

Of course, the Andrea Doria was a far, far more attractive vessel (http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/15250446.jpg) than the "block of flats" look cruise ships have today.

But it seems to me:

** Officers were lying to Coast Guard and other external parties about the nature and severity of the problem, and perhaps to staff as well
** Staff were lying to customers along similar lines, whether ordered to or not
** Below-decks crew probably knew the severity ahead of everyone else, and some took self-preservation steps independent of orders or passenger interests

The common thread is indifference to passenger safety. The undoubted heroism of some ship staff is rather overshadowed by the bigger picture.I may well have less information than you do about it, as all of mine has to be gleaned from publicly-accessible sources (ie news media, whose competence, integrity and reputation often seem determined to drill down, using all available modern technology, from the bottom level of the deep sewer in which they currently languish).

Based on that, I would not want to speculate about any inferences to be drawn beyond what has been reliably reported. Some individuals, based on such reports, did not perform well. But whether subsequent poor decisions were produced by such appalling motives, or whether they were simply examples of the types of honest mistake which are inevitably made by individuals in such a situation, perhaps because they have insufficient information or inadequate orders or instructions, is not something on which I feel I am able to form any view at the present time.

One thing, though, is clear: this accident did not kill "a lot of people". You might say that the Titanic sinking killed "a lot of people". You might say that the Estonia sinking killed "a lot of people". You might say that the Herald of Free Enterprise sinking killed "a lot of people". But the Costa Concordia sinking did not. Over-dramatisation in an attempt to make a point can, rather, weaken its force.

I may well have less information than you do about it, as all of mine has to be gleaned from publicly-accessible sources...
One thing, though, is clear: this accident did not kill "a lot of people".

I have a couple of friends in the Merchant Marine who do not have access to any inside information about this event, but are nonetheless expert in maritime safety. The views they've shared with me are that command lapses and delayed acknowledgement of the seriousness of the crisis aboard Costa Concordia indubitably drove up the death toll. FWIW.

And I'm afraid I do think 32 dead is "a lot of people" in absolute terms, though perhaps not relative to Titanic, Estonia, etc. The Andrea Doria / Stockholm collision killed a total of 51 (AD 46, Stockholm 5), and we're all still talking about that.

The views they've shared with me are that command lapses and delayed acknowledgement of the seriousness of the crisis aboard Costa Concordia indubitably drove up the death toll.A purely personal view, but I much prefer the language you've used in this sentence.

Hey, Costa Guys! We're getting a little tired of the "electrical fire" story:

http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2012/02/27/internacional/1330355027.html

The Costa Allegra adrift 200 miles off the Seychelles. Somali pirates, take notice! :D

Hey, Costa Guys! We're getting a little tired of the "electrical fire" story:

http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2012/02/27/internacional/1330355027.html

The Costa Allegra adrift 200 miles off the Seychelles. Somali pirates, take notice! :D

Hopefully everything will be OK. A ship without power and a several hour long electrical fire is a worry.

BBC is covering the story now.

Should do horrible things to the number of bookings Costa receives. There may be some bargin prices in the coming months...

Hey, Costa Guys! We're getting a little tired of the "electrical fire" story:

http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2012/02/27/internacional/1330355027.html

The Costa Allegra adrift 200 miles off the Seychelles. Somali pirates, take notice! :D

I ran accross the story in the local paper today..

Really bad timing considering everything that's going on with Costa.

News article today that the Concordia captain had a previous crash in 2010 due to excessive speed:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-03-03/italy-shipwreck-captain-crashed-before/3866330/?site=newcastle

The captain of a tragedy-struck Italian cruise ship had crashed a luxury liner before while sailing too fast in a German port, according to leaks from an investigation into the disaster published on Friday.
Captain Francesco Schettino "manoeuvred at a speed of 7.7 to 7.9 knots during entry into the port of Warnemunde, causing damage to the Aida Blu cruise ship," his employer notified him in a letter published by La Stampa daily, referring to an incident in June 2010....

Today’s Financial Times (www.ft.com) has an in-depth article on the Costa Concordia tragedy. Much of the data had been reported in the past, although not in such detail. The interviews with passengers, crew, and naval disaster experts; testimony given to the Italian Senate and the US Congress; and even the assessment of disaster psychologists, indicate that Captain Schettino repeatedly lied to Costa and Italian Coast Guard authorities about the seriousness of the accident, in part because he “succumbed to ‘normalcy bias,’ where disbelief and overconfidence obscure realities too horrible to contemplate.”

Refusing to give the order to evacuate; reporting that there were no injuries on board; repeatedly insisting that the accident was only an electrical failure; and lying to the Coast Guard on the mainland about the serious accident are just some of the indications cited. With almost unbelievable fatalism, the Captain is recorded as stating: “We have no problems. God will assist us,” and E vabbuó, Neapolitan dialect for “Oh well.”

One piece of news I had not seen earlier is that Captain Schettino initially begged a Costa Cruise official to declare that a blackout on board had caused the accident. The request was denied.

Although the article is based on dozens of interviews, curiously there is very little mention of the elusive Domnica Cemortan, the Rumanian “dancer” who shared dinner and a bottle of wine with Captain Schettino just before the accident and was with him on the bridge when the ship hit the shoals. Ms Cemortan had no cabin assigned to her and it had been assumed that she was traveling as a guest of the captain and staying with him. This was supported by her earlier declaration that “I am in love with Captain Schettino,” which, translated from Rumanian or Italian, might mean “I am Captain Schettino’s lover.” The article does mention that Ms. Cemortan “stole a kiss” from the captain – whatever that might mean – before the accident.

While this might be viewed as mere gossip for tabloids, it supports the contention of the woeful disregard for policy and safety that characterized many of the ship’s officers, including the captain. A professor and expert in disaster management is quoted as saying “the command structure simply collapsed” after the accident. A crew member complains that crew “waited hours to get on a lifeboat…at the end there was not a single officer with us.” We all know that by that time Captain Schettino was warm and dry in the Giglio Hotel.

The lack of good judgment and back up systems would seem to characterize not just the Concordia and Captain Schettino, but Costa Cruises itself. The latest example being the stranding in the Indian Ocean of the 43-year-old former cargo ship, now cruise liner, the Costa Allegra.

The backstory question is: Did Micky Arison know what he was buying when he paid for Costa Cruises? If he did, did he think he could change the culture and impose Carnival’s standards on the Italian line? If so, this might be an exercise in self-delusion that rivals Captain Schettino’s.

The lack of good judgment and back up systems would seem to characterize not just the Concordia and Captain Schettino, but Costa Cruises itself. The latest example being the stranding in the Indian Ocean of the 43-year-old former cargo ship, now cruise liner, the Costa Allegra.

The backstory question is: Did Micky Arison know what he was buying when he paid for Costa Cruises? If he did, did he think he could change the culture and impose Carnival’s standards on the Italian line?I think that your reference to Costa Allegra is taking speculation to new heights. We have no idea whether what happened to her has anything to do with poor judgement or a lack of back-up systems, or indeed to any difference between operating standards at Costa and mainline Carnival.

After all, the consequences of the Costa Allegra fire appear almost identical to the consequences of the Carnival Splendor fire, yet I don't see any criticism of Carnival's judgement or back-up systems in your post.

And while we're on the subject of Costa, what about Captain Bosio? Is he to be tarred with the same brush? And if not, why so fast to tar the rest of the company?

Thought I would mention that there are six proposals to remove the Concordia:
Associated Press: (Posted on WashingtonPost dot com)
6 bids launched for salvage operation to remove Costa cruise ship from Tuscan coast
March 9, 2012 (http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/6-bids-launched-for-salvage-operation-to-remove-costa-cruise-ship-from-tuscan-coast/2012/03/09/gIQAgBqb1R_story.html)

The crash has not been good for Carnival's bottom-line:
Bloomberg:
Carnival Posts Net Loss After Concordia Accident in Italy (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-03-09/carnival-posts-loss-on-costs-from-concordia-crash-in-italy.html)

A short quote:Carnival Corp. (CCL), the world’s largest cruise-ship operator, posted a $139 million first-quarter loss, after the grounding of its Costa Concordia off Italy killed at least 25 persons.

CCL did have a big write off for uninsured losses in Q1. I doubt they'll have any losses going forward from Concordia (though revenue will obviously be reduced with two fewer ships sailing for the foreseeable future).

How much of a write down occured? Sounds like a good part of the ship was written off, but not the entire ship was written off. Plus the second incident which left passengers stranded muct have been part of the write off?

How much of a write down occured? Sounds like a good part of the ship was written off, but not the entire ship was written off. Plus the second incident which left passengers stranded muct have been part of the write off?

March 9, 2012

MIAMI -- Cruise ship operator Carnival reported Friday that it swung to a first-quarter net loss of $139 million, or 18 cents a share, and cut its fiscal outlook due to the Costa Concordia accident off the Italian coast earlier this year.

The loss compared to a profit of $152 million, or 19 cents a share in the same period a year ago. Revenue rose to $3.6 billion from $3.4 billion in the prior year, largely due to increased ship capacity and higher ticket prices.

"First quarter 2012 results reflect Costa Concordia incident expenses of $29 million, including a $10 million insurance deductible related to third party personal injury liabilities," the company said in a press release.

Carnival also recorded an insurance recoverable of $515 million, which offset the write-off on the Costa Concordia value, as the ship "has been deemed to be a constructive total loss."

The cruise line's subsidiary, Costa Crociere, said Friday that it has received six bids to remove the Concordia wreck, adding that it will select a company by early next month. The company said the removal could take up to 12 months.
In another blow to the firm's troubled Costa unit, Carnival said it incurred a $34 million impairment charge related to the Costa Allegra. The Allegra was disabled a few weeks back for three straight days in the middle of the Indian Ocean after a fire on board.


Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/carnival_swings_accident_first_quarter_NQvF8ThxbnI 0oslsjKOuxM#ixzz1qRNDUZky

Thanks cordelli.. This clarifies how the loss is charged back, through a insurance premium paid including the $10 million insurance deductible and $29 million incidental expense.. and on top of that the disabled ship charge back. Surprising, much of its loss was not due to the two incidents. I would have thought the loss was certainly due to the incidents, and if the two did not occur Carnival would be profitable.

I would like to think sales fell, but looks like year to year, they are up.

Thanks cordelli.. This clarifies how the loss is charged back, through a insurance premium paid including the $10 million insurance deductible and $29 million incidental expense.. and on top of that the disabled ship charge back. Surprising, much of its loss was not due to the two incidents. I would have thought the loss was certainly due to the incidents, and if the two did not occur Carnival would be profitable.

I would like to think sales fell, but looks like year to year, they are up.

Given how far in advance most cruises are booked it's too soon to tell what effect on bookings will be felt by this. I had heard at the time that bookings did fall off, but whether that translates to unsold cabins, or simply booked closer to departure date and/or at a discount, I have no idea.

Given how far in advance most cruises are booked it's too soon to tell what effect on bookings will be felt by this. I had heard at the time that bookings did fall off, but whether that translates to unsold cabins, or simply booked closer to departure date and/or at a discount, I have no idea.

Cruise lines are in catch 22.. Cruise lines don't want to discount because of current reservations calling in and asking for the refund in difference.. and bookings will fall off if cruise lines don't drop their prices.

Prebookings are a bit of insurance, but unless the economies of scale is achieved on continual bookings up until cruise send off, the companies will hurt..

The ship will be refloated and towed away. That should be an impressive thing to see.

Concordia final decision: ship to be righted and towed away in one piece (http://www.examiner.com/cruise-in-bowling-green/concordia-final-decision-ship-to-be-righted-and-towed-away-one-piece)

It will be interesting to see how they go about sealing up all those massive indoor spaces so they can pump water out without more just flowing in. You'd almost think they would need to get the ship upright first, but how the heck you do that without ripping the top of the ship apart, I have no idea.

Most of the "gash" cut into the lower hull's starboard side is exposed and likely can be patched, making the initial steps to refloating possible. Theoretically, and depending upon damage to the lower hull's port side from the final grounding, divers can re-establish watertight integrity in the paces below the lowest accommodation (pax & crew) decks, allowing water to be pumped out, beginning the refloating process. Some parts of the superstructure and top hamper will likely need to be cut away along with providing adequate openings for water in the upper decks to run out as the ship's hull begins to rise, but once begun, the process becomes an extensive, expensive evolution, a salvage school text book solution on a grand scale.

The cost benefit ratio involves comparing the cost of the salvage process to the value of what remains after it has been completed, a floating hulk requiring repair and renovation rising toward the cost of a new ship. I presume that the bean counters long ago started that calculation process, and that sending her to the ship-breakers remains not entirely unlikely.

It will be interesting to see how they go about sealing up all those massive indoor spaces so they can pump water out without more just flowing in. You'd almost think they would need to get the ship upright first, but how the heck you do that without ripping the top of the ship apart, I have no idea.

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