Japan - Ryokan during winter time

Hello everybody:

We're in the process of researching a trip to Japan as a tag-on to a business trip to Tokyo that's on my horizon (mid February) and we're considering to stay at least once in a Ryokan in order to enjoy the experience as well as the onsen. Now I have come across a webpage about Ryokans and there the following can be read:

Staying at a typical ryokan is a traditional Japanese cultural experience, and it is not like staying at a Western-style hotel. For example ryokans do not have central heating and in the winter this means you will be staying in a room with a portable heater (kerosene, gas, electric). While your room may be heated, your private bathroom (if you have one) will probably not have a separate heater. In the summer time, your room may have an air conditioning unit but again your private bathroom (if you have one) will probably not have one. Many ryokan owners wish to preserve the traditional atmosphere of their ryokan, and this means maintaining old fashioned heating systems in order to preserve the traditional architecture, design, and atmosphere of the ryokan. If you prefer to sleep in a double room with twin queen-size beds and have: a full modern bathroom, carpeted rooms, perfect room temperature, insulated silence, the latest high tech gadgets, and every member of the staff speaking fluent English then a ryokan might not be for you.

(http://www.japaneseguesthouses.com/about/ryokan/index.htm)

Does that mean that *all* Ryokans are like this and how do people handle this in the winter? As stated the trip would be in the middle of February and we're looking for a Ryokan in Hakone.

Thanks a lot,
cas_de

Does that mean that *all* Ryokans are like this
Not all. You'll find places with varying degrees of modernity.

For the full on Japanese traditional house experience, you need to stay in a thatched building with open hearths and a little charcoal fire in a pit under the table. You need to spend your evenings with your legs tucked under a big quilt over that table, because it's the warmest place. You need to wear a quilted coat, drink great quantities of tea or amazake, watch the clouds of vapor from your mouth and dread the moment when your bladder forces you to go to the arctic benjo...

In truth, though, few Japanese houses or inns are quite like that these days.

and how do people handle this in the winter?
They're rock hard.

Here's an onsen ryokan I've probably mentioned here before. It's in Gunma - modern rooms, outdoor baths, and an old fashioned building out back. So you can experience life as it used to be, with a cup of warm sake and some grilled fish snacks in the old building, then move to the modern bit for dinner, bath and bed.
http://www.kurayashiki.co.jp/annai.html

Here's an onsen ryokan I've probably mentioned here before. It's in Gunma - modern rooms, outdoor baths, and an old fashioned building out back. So you can experience life as it used to be, with a cup of warm sake and some grilled fish snacks in the old building, then move to the modern bit for dinner, bath and bed.
http://www.kurayashiki.co.jp/annai.html

Thanks for the clarification. My girlfriend asked about the heating - I didn't really think about it.

The place you recommend sounds good, however it's more up north than we think about going. Would you pick this over a place in Hakone? Or, alternatively, do you have any suggestion for a Ryokan that's similar to what you've described in Hakone?

The general plan is - if the trip materializes:

08FEB-11FEB Tokyo (conference throught the 10th)
11FEB HND-ITM-Kyoto
12FEB-13FEB Kyoto
14FEB Kyoto-Hakone
15FEB-16FEB Hakone
17FEB Hakone-Tokyo
18FEB or 19FEB return to Germany

I figure that we can get a proper hotel in Kyoto, but I am tempted to try the Ryokan/onsen experience in Hakone - unless the overall setting scares my better half off completely.

Thanks...

Or, alternatively, do you have any suggestion for a Ryokan that's similar to what you've described in Hakone?

I don't know of any old inns in old Japanese buildings (Minka) in Hakone. (I'm sure someone here will jump in if there is one). There are some very high-end ryokan, though. (And the prices reflect that). Personally, I'd forgo Hakone in favor of a really rustic spot, but if you want to wake up to a view of Mt. Fuji, then Hakone is one place to do it.

If I were you, I'd probably take the train rather than flying to Kyoto. And I'd probably try to fly out of KIX to Germany rather than backtracking to NRT.

I don't know of any old inns in old Japanese buildings (Minka) in Hakone. (I'm sure someone here will jump in if there is one). There are some very high-end ryokan, though. (And the prices reflect that). Personally, I'd forgo Hakone in favor of a really rustic spot, but if you want to wake up to a view of Mt. Fuji, then Hakone is one place to do it.

If I were you, I'd probably take the train rather than flying to Kyoto. And I'd probably try to fly out of KIX to Germany rather than backtracking to NRT.

The single reason for me to fly HND-ITM would be to get a ride on the 787. I've seen it and I've been in one (StarMegaDO 2) but I would like to fly it once. But then, the trip's not fixed yet, so there's still lots of ifs and buts...

The reason why I would aim for Hakone is the proximity to Mt. Fuji and the rather convenient location b/w Kyoto and Tokyo.

The reason why I would aim for Hakone is the proximity to Mt. Fuji and the rather convenient location b/w Kyoto and Tokyo.

"Proximity to Mt. Fuji" - Yup. I can't argue with that. And, ultimately, that's a good enough reason to want to stay there.
"Convenient location" - That's open to debate. It's certainly close to Tokyo, which is convenient for Tokyo-ites who want to take a short break from Tokyo. But it's not on the way to Kyoto. To get there, you make a detour from the route to Kyoto. A return trip by Shinkansen to Nagano or Gunma would not take much longer than the detour to Hakone.

"Proximity to Mt. Fuji" - Yup. I can't argue with that. And, ultimately, that's a good enough reason to want to stay there.
"Convenient location" - That's open to debate. It's certainly close to Tokyo, which is convenient for Tokyo-ites who want to take a short break from Tokyo. But it's not on the way to Kyoto. To get there, you make a detour from the route to Kyoto. A return trip by Shinkansen to Nagano or Gunma would not take much longer than the detour to Hakone.

Well convenient because I researched that Hakone is close to the Shinkansen Line Kyto-Tokyo if you use Odawara stop - or am I mistaken?

So, you'd rather take a sidetrip to Gunma to the ryokan that you mentioned above and then heading straight from Tokyo to Kyoto leaving Hakone out of the itin alltogether?

Well convenient because I researched that Hakone is close to the Shinkansen Line Kyto-Tokyo if you use Odawara stop - or am I mistaken?


That's true. But not all Shinkansen trains stop at Odawara. You'll need to take one that stops at Odawara. With that, your journey from Tokyo to Hakone will take about an hour. Then the journey from Hakone to Kyoto will take about 2.5 hours ...

That compares with a journey from Tokyo to Kyoto of about 2.5 hours. So .. I was wrong to say that a round trip to Gunma would take no longer. It's actually shorter to make the detour to Hakone. But it's not like just stepping off the train at a point on the journey to Kyoto.

We stayed in a ryokan in Takayama a couple weeks ago, and it was absolutely frigid out in the halls, and in the vestibule area leading into our rooms. The toilet was in a separate room off the vestibule, and was not heated. Our room had a couple of heaters that kept the main rooms really warm, except for the first day, when something seemed to have gone haywire. We were worried at first that they allowed heat only at night, but it finally came back on. The onsen area was warm in the right places, and it was lovely to sit in the outdoor tub while gentle snow fell.

All in all, the temperature took some getting used to, but it was a fun experience.

Takayama was our choice for a midway point between Tokyo and Kyoto. It's about 2 extra hours off the main train line, but an hour of the trip up into the mountains is gorgeous, so well worth it. The town is well-preserved and very charming.

Yes, and to reach Takayama in the winter, the handiest way is to take the Shinkansen to Nagoya (all Shinkansen out of Tokyo stop at Nagoya, about 1.5 hours) and then take a regular train out of Nagoya to Takayama.

In the summer, it's kind of fun to take the train out of Shinjuku Station to Matsumoto and go over the mountains to Takayama by bus, proceeding on to Nagoya by train, but I wouldn't want to try it in February.

Takayama is a well-preserved old town, and in the winter, they brew sake, so perhaps you could tour a sake brewery and get some free samples. :D

That's true. But not all Shinkansen trains stop at Odawara. You'll need to take one that stops at Odawara. With that, your journey from Tokyo to Hakone will take about an hour. Then the journey from Hakone to Kyoto will take about 2.5 hours ...

That compares with a journey from Tokyo to Kyoto of about 2.5 hours. So .. I was wrong to say that a round trip to Gunma would take no longer. It's actually shorter to make the detour to Hakone. But it's not like just stepping off the train at a point on the journey to Kyoto.

I think I am aware of that. Do you think it'd be worth to go up to Gunma, too? What can you do there?

Thanks a lot!

@kmcg & ksandness: thanks for the comment, the more information we have, the better.

Do you think it'd be worth to go up to Gunma, too? What can you do there?
(1) Ski - Even better if you go a couple of stops further up the Shinkansen line.
(2) Sake - Some good breweries in that part of the country
(3) IIRC, there's some sort of folk village around there where you can see old ways of life
(4) Sit in a bath and look at the snow

Much the same could be said of Nagano or Takayama, which other people have mentioned ... Takayama certainly is further out of your way, but I think it's really worth visiting. The town has some charming old streets and the sake brewery tour, which ksandness mentioned, is short but interesting. It's a real, old, brewery with some good sake.

My prejudices tell me that the quality of skiing is probably better near to MUC - but I don't really know about such things.

(1) Ski - Even better if you go a couple of stops further up the Shinkansen line.
(2) Sake - Some good breweries in that part of the country
(3) IIRC, there's some sort of folk village around there where you can see old ways of life
(4) Sit in a bath and look at the snow

Much the same could be said of Nagano or Takayama, which other people have mentioned ... Takayama certainly is further out of your way, but I think it's really worth visiting. The town has some charming old streets and the sake brewery tour, which ksandness mentioned, is short but interesting. It's a real, old, brewery with some good sake.

My prejudices tell me that the quality of skiing is probably better near to MUC - but I don't really know about such things.

With respect to skiing - you're probably right, we have tons of great skiing areas within a 3hr driving radius of MUC... so, there's not really a need to sample skiing resorts in Japan this time. After doing lots of thinking this what the plan will most likely look like:

Hiroshima/Miyajima
Hiroshima/Miyajima
Kyoto
Kyoto
Hakone
Hakone
Tokyo/NRT pre-departure overnight stay

For Hakone I am aiming at the following location:

http://www.fujimien.com/english/index.htm

With respect to skiing - you're probably right, we have tons of great skiing areas within a 3hr driving radius of MUC... so, there's not really a need to sample skiing resorts in Japan this time. After doing lots of thinking this what the plan will most likely look like:

Hiroshima/Miyajima
Hiroshima/Miyajima
Kyoto
Kyoto
Hakone
Hakone
Tokyo/NRT pre-departure overnight stay

For Hakone I am aiming at the following location:

http://www.fujimien.com/english/index.htm
I'd be inclined to give less weight to Hiroshima/Miyajima and Hakone than to Kyoto and Tokyo. So, I'd treat Hiroshima as one day + an overnight (e.g. see the museum and peace park, move to Miyajima, overnight at Miyajima, early morning walk, then take a morning ferry to the mainland and train to Kyoto) and then treat Kyoto as 2.5 days.... if you get my drift.

The location you've chosen in Hakone looks like a public institution to me. Certainly, it's inexpensive. But if that's the "ryokan experience", I'd skip it.

I'd be inclined to give less weight to Hiroshima/Miyajima and Hakone than to Kyoto and Tokyo. So, I'd treat Hiroshima as one day + an overnight (e.g. see the museum and peace park, move to Miyajima, overnight at Miyajima, early morning walk, then take a morning ferry to the mainland and train to Kyoto) and then treat Kyoto as 2.5 days.... if you get my drift.

The location you've chosen in Hakone looks like a public institution to me. Certainly, it's inexpensive. But if that's the "ryokan experience", I'd skip it.

We'll be in Tokyo for four days for my business meetings, so I guess we have Tokyo covered. With regard to Hiroshima, I want to take the NH 787 flight from HND in the morning and I wasn't sure if one night is sufficient to see Hiroshima and Miyajima, but as of now I am flexible with respect to shifting one Hiroshima night to Kyoto.

There's an option for a Ryokan in Miyajima, too, and we haven't selected any hotels in Kyoto as well. So there's still room for changes. I am still looking for a proper one with an onsen in Hakone... I just booked this one, because of the aparent shortage of options if the stay includes a Friday or Saturday night...

With regard to Hiroshima, I want to take the NH 787 flight from HND in the morning and I wasn't sure if one night is sufficient to see Hiroshima and Miyajima, but as of now I am flexible with respect to shifting one Hiroshima night to Kyoto.

Depends on your time of arrival at HIJ I guess. The airport is about an hour from the city. So ... a morning departure might put you downtown at about lunchtime. That might give you an afternoon to see the Peace Park and museum. A bit short, but possible.

depends on your time of arrival at hij i guess. The airport is about an hour from the city. So ... A morning departure might put you downtown at about lunchtime. That might give you an afternoon to see the peace park and museum. A bit short, but possible.

hnd-hij nh673 0750-0920

hnd-hij nh673 0750-0920

In that case, go handluggage only. Try to get the 9.45 bus from the airport to Hiroshima station. (Failing that, the 10.25 bus). From there, get a tram to the Peace Park / A-bomb dome. Walk around the park. Have lunch. See museum. Then go back to the main station and catch a train to Miyajima guchi for the ferry to the island. (Or go on the tram, which takes longer, but it's fun... ).

I loved Ryokan Iwaso on Miyajima - although it's expensive. There are many other ryokan to choose from. As with Hakone, it's such a popular tourist destination that you pay a premium there. Nonetheless, I like Miyajima.

Depending on the tides, you can take a boat trip at night to go around (and through) the famous Torii. It's very touristy but I have to confess, I loved it.

FWIW, the ryokan I stayed at in Kyoto last year at this time did have heat, but only in the main rooms. The corridors and bath and toilet areas were indeed cold. The bath wasn't too much of a problem -- I just let the hot water run in the shower for a few minutes. The toilet area was cold, but did have a heated seat.