KLM Flying Dutchman - How is KLM in Business on the 777?

I haven't flown KLM longhaul in decades, and never in longhaul Business class.

Now I plan to go (CDG-)AMS-Quito on a 777.

How is the flight experience? Seat, food, IFE? How does it compare to for instance Air France Business Class, or Lufthansa or Swiss?

KLM offers the most convenient connections from Paris, my other choices would involve one more stop (Paris-Frankfurt-Bogota-Quito on Lufthansa/Avianca in First) or would be a hassle (Paris-Houston-Quito on United in Business). But if the product is a disappointment then I'd be happy to make the detour via Lufthansa/Bogota.

The seat is similar (B772) or identical (B77W) to AF. Angled lie flat. Very similar to LH and hence way behind LX. Layout is 2-3-2 on the B777s, Again the same as AF but slightly narrower than LH though I cannot say i actually found this to be the case.

IFE on KL is better than AF and LH in my opinion and similar to LX.

Food is better than AF, same quality as LH but less choice: one starter and choice from two mains.

I have done longhaul J in all four in the last months and would rate them LX -> KL = LH -> AF.

That said you're HON and that makes any comparison different. And you have LH F as an option to consider. If you cannot sleep well in angled flat seats, that would be my choice despite the extra stop. Have you checked with IB! By the way?

The seat is similar (B772) or identical (B77W) to AF. Angled lie flat. Very similar to LH and hence way behind LX. Layout is 2-3-2 on the B777s, Again the same as AF but slightly narrower than LH though I cannot say i actually found this to be the case.

IFE on KL is better than AF and LH in my opinion and similar to LX.

Food is better than AF, same quality as LH but less choice: one starter and choice from two mains.

I have done longhaul J in all four in the last months and would rate them LX -> KL = LH -> AF.

That said you're HON and that makes any comparison different. And you have LH F as an option to consider. If you cannot sleep well in angled flat seats, that would be my choice despite the extra stop. Have you checked with IB! By the way?

Thanks a lot MichielR, that was just the info I was looking for!

I haven't checked IB at all to be honest. I know they are flying down there, but I haven't heard any great things about their product anywhere (the opposite neither). And currently there are many strikes going on there - maybe not worse than AF, but definitely worse than KL.

So from what I am reading from you I'll probably make my choice between KL (better schedules, good enough product) vs. LH/AV (not as great schedule, but better experience with TATL in First).

Thanks again.

The seat is similar (B772) or identical (B77W) to AF. Angled lie flat. Very similar to LH and hence way behind LX. Layout is 2-3-2 on the B777s, Again the same as AF but slightly narrower than LH though I cannot say i actually found this to be the case.

IFE on KL is better than AF and LH in my opinion and similar to LX.

Food is better than AF, same quality as LH but less choice: one starter and choice from two mains.

I have done longhaul J in all four in the last months and would rate them LX -> KL = LH -> AF.

That said you're HON and that makes any comparison different. And you have LH F as an option to consider. If you cannot sleep well in angled flat seats, that would be my choice despite the extra stop. Have you checked with IB! By the way?

77W seats are indeed (nearly) identical to NEV3. But 772 seats are quite different. They are not in a shell, and are as slippery as a NEV2.

For the rest I agree.

KL's 777 J class has 35 seats, but only two FAs to serve the pax. On a full flight that is far from sufficient. In theory the purser should lend a hand, but there is a very good chance that he or she will not.

Johan

KL's 777 J class has 35 seats, but only two FAs to serve the pax. On a full flight that is far from sufficient. In theory the purser should lend a hand, but there is a very good chance that he or she will not.

Johan

Coming back to AMS from the Far East recently, I was the only passenger in J on a 777. One of the FAs was exceptionally helpful - genuine personal service! - but although the purser walked through the cabin a few times he didn't even look at me, let alone say hello. On the quality of the cabin - good food (though quite limited choice); reasonable IFE (dull set of movies) and the not-quite lie-flat seat. A full 777 J cabin isn't very pleasant with the 2-3-2 layout and only 2 FAs to deal with 35 people.

I was the only passenger in J on a 777.Wow! I've shared the 767 J cabin with a single non-rev pax on a KQ NBO-AMS flight, but never had the place entirely to myself. On the other hand, I've been the only pax on the whole aircraft once, but that was a regional flight JNB-TLD.

Johan

Avoiding the US transit immigration hurdles is a reason not to do the third option with UA.

If you like the quick connection take KL: there is a chance of middle seat in C and sleeping in the not so flat seat though.

The LH option: the only negative I can think of is the extra connection (extra travel time) and if you get the non-refurb F on the a346 (more a nag) but F is F and the service will be more personalised than in C. Get your connecting avianca flight in the same PNR and in case of missed connections they can rebook you automatically.