Finnair Plus - Finnair? How low can you go? Really? (Bye bye free newspapers.)

Finnair has started to sell newspapers in their intra-european flights. (Their words, not mine.)

3EUR for Ilta-Sanomat.

How low can you go anymore?

Finnair has started to sell newspapers in their intra-european flights. (Their words, not mine.)

3EUR for Ilta-Sanomat.

How low can you go anymore?

:td::td::td:

HAH!!!!!!! LCC route officially taken?

HAH!!!!!!! LCC route officially taken?

I am waiting for the announcement: Due to customer feedback, it is now possible to buy newspapers on board of a Finnair flight :)

On a recent business class flight over 3 hours: no more hot towels (about one year ago they were available even on a 1,5 hour flights), breakfast tray with pre-packed fruit salad (no longer in Origo bowls). I guess these are part of the changes that passengers won't even notice but produce a lot of savings.

European business class fares are approximately 1600 €. BA sells restrictive C class tickets for 410 € to London and LH group for approximately 800 € with a lot more destinations (albeit not non-stop).

Finnair is trying to compete with low-cost carriers in Y but still not managing it. I hate the greasy sandwiches in economy class (pasta salads better). Air Baltic and Air Berlin provide pre-order dishes, which are starting to look more tempting.

Still, no reasonable one-way fares available although SK and BA offer them.

On long-haul flights snacks are charged and the IFE is of a poor quality at least choice-wise. Sometimes you get a very good business class seat but often not. The best aircraft are used in charter routes. After Qatar entering the Finnish market, AY will not be able to sell many tickets to Asia in its home market.

Finnair has lost the identity and the game. Let's see if IAG will buy them in a couple of years.

Sorry, about the rant.

The prices we Finns pay with Finnair are really high. I have wrote about this earlier but I feel really unfair when hearing e.g. UK passages flying from LHR-HEL-PEK in business with price that is much lower than the Y price from Helsinki. Or German gyus flying from ICN-HEL-MUC with 1700e in business, and it was the the questions that he wold have bough the ticket half year before departure. My Y ticket from HEL cost 2xxx someting.

Finnair has lost it totally and they seem to realise it by themselves as well, they took the cost cutting route which will lead where SAS is now... Finnair advertising is all about price, nothing about quality anymore...just wait until the middle east companies kill their Asian traffic..that will be the end for Finnair, small regional LCC feeding Lufthansa or BA + maybe carrying price hunting Finnish package tourists in cramped cattle tubes..

Paper newspapers are so last season :rolleyes:

I wouldn´t mind if all the airlines got rid of them asap.

AY was planning to introduce iPads for passengers a while ago. Nothing heard of that so far.

Finnair has lost it totally and they seem to realise it by themselves as well, they took the cost cutting route which will lead where SAS is now... Finnair advertising is all about price, nothing about quality anymore...just wait until the middle east companies kill their Asian traffic..that will be the end for Finnair, small regional LCC feeding Lufthansa or BA + maybe carrying price hunting Finnish package tourists in cramped cattle tubes..

That seems to be Finnair's goal nowadays, to become a LCC. Unfortunately they still only are halfway there as their prices are mostly still too high.

As mentioned earlier, Qatar will probably deal quite a death blow to Finnair on Asian flights, especially among travellers who do not mind a short stop somewhere on their way to final destination. Hopefully Qatar's prices will be similar from HEL as they are from other Nordic cities. There is no question on what I will choose, €1000:- on AY in Y or €1600:- on QR in C. And price conscious travelers will rather pay €600:- on QR in Y.

On European flights Norwegian and Lufthansa will see major market share growth in near future. LH is still full service with lower prices than AY, and Norwegian has new planes, good service and they at least are proud of being a LCC.

Anybody know yet when QR starts Helsinki? So looking forward to it!

Paper newspapers are so last season :rolleyes:

I wouldn´t mind if all the airlines got rid of them asap.

AY was planning to introduce iPads for passengers a while ago. Nothing heard of that so far.

I travel with my iPad, but I still like the newspapers, mostly because you can read them during taxiing / takeoff / landing.

I wonder if you can find any newspapers in the lounges after 7am after this "enhancement" or do they charge there as well ;)

Finnair has started to sell newspapers in their intra-european flights. (Their words, not mine.)
3EUR for Ilta-Sanomat.
?

Also in J or just Y?

Also in J or just Y?
Y, I think J they are still complimentary.

The prices we Finns pay with Finnair are really high. I have wrote about this earlier but I feel really unfair when hearing e.g. UK passages flying from LHR-HEL-PEK in business with price that is much lower than the Y price from Helsinki. Or German gyus flying from ICN-HEL-MUC with 1700e in business, and it was the the questions that he wold have bough the ticket half year before departure. My Y ticket from HEL cost 2xxx someting.
To be fair, this is not really limited to AY. In fact all airlines do this by charging a significant premium for departures out of their respective home hubs.

To be fair, this is not really limited to AY. In fact all airlines do this by charging a significant premium for departures out of their respective home hubs.

True, but this is the AY forum, so we're moaning about AY :D

As mentioned earlier, Qatar will probably deal quite a death blow to Finnair on Asian flights, especially among travellers who do not mind a short stop somewhere on their way to final destination. Hopefully Qatar's prices will be similar from HEL as they are from other Nordic cities. There is no question on what I will choose, €1000:- on AY in Y or €1600:- on QR in C. And price conscious travelers will rather pay €600:- on QR in Y.


Anybody know yet when QR starts Helsinki? So looking forward to it!

I asked about the opening day via twitter but i think the date is still unconfirmed.

EY also has listed Helsinki to their website. I don't know more about that but i believe that they are also interested opening a route.

As mentioned earlier, Qatar will probably deal quite a death blow to Finnair on Asian flights, especially among travellers who do not mind a short stop somewhere on their way to final destination. Hopefully Qatar's prices will be similar from HEL as they are from other Nordic cities. There is no question on what I will choose, €1000:- on AY in Y or €1600:- on QR in C. And price conscious travelers will rather pay €600:- on QR in Y.
I hardly think that flying to Doha in a narrow-body, connecting at a crowded airport and flying a longer route are such advantages that nobody would pick Finnair anymore. Besides, those who only value price have probably gone to LH, TK etc. quite some time ago (perhaps excluding the recent rather good offers AY has made in Y).

If everyone would value QR as highly as you seem to do, AY if not the whole EU airline industry (at least long haul) would have died ages ago. Keep in mind that most of their is between Continental Europe/UK and Asia, and QR flying DOH-HEL does not affect this at all. On the other hand QR and other ME carriers have flown to AY target cities for ages and have not killed AY or the local carriers there.

I hardly think that flying to Doha in a narrow-body, connecting and flying a longer route are such advantages that nobody would pick Finnair anymore. Besides, those who only value price have probably gone to LH, TK etc. quite some time ago (perhaps excluding the recent rather good offers AY has made in Y).

If everyone would value QR as highly as you seem to do, AY if not the whole EU airline industry (at least long haul) would have died ages ago. Keep in mind that most of their is between Continental Europe/UK and Asia, and QR flying DOH-HEL does not affect this at all. On the other hand QR and other ME carriers have flown to AY target cities for ages and have not killed AY or the local carriers there.

Well, yes, AY does offer much better prices from the Continental Europe and QR flying from HEL will not affect those travelers. I would think that this is more about AY losing Finnish customers. Those customers have already been paying higher prices for a long time and QR flying from Helsinki will certainly increase the competition and hopefully lead to also Finnair offering lower prices also for us Finns. AY recently offering more attractive prices to Asia is at least partly due to the QR news in my opinion. If only AY would offer better prices in C for us Finns too....

EY also has listed Helsinki to their website. I don't know more about that but i believe that they are also interested opening a route.

These will almost certainly be AB flights, code shared by EY.

www.airberlin.com/site/pressreleases_dr.php?LANG=eng&ID=4043 (http://www.airberlin.com/site/pressreleases_dr.php?LANG=eng&ID=4043)

With an AY+ account I would simply use Air Berlin for European flights, as long as Etihad let's them play along. If I remember correctly they have a good variety of (mostly German) newspapers and a nice "meals for purchase" menu in addition to the snack service.

And it still only takes a reasonable number of AY+ points to upgrade SH sectors. It would be much worse in my eyes if Finnair changed upgrade policies to something resembling BA or CX/KA.

On the other hand, I guess to find a print media that is willing to promote itself on AY flights shouldn't be too hard. Maybe the Financial Times, IHT or similar product?

I hardly think that flying to Doha in a narrow-body, connecting at a crowded airport and flying a longer route are such advantages that nobody would pick Finnair anymore. Besides, those who only value price have probably gone to LH, TK etc. quite some time ago (perhaps excluding the recent rather good offers AY has made in Y).

If everyone would value QR as highly as you seem to do, AY if not the whole EU airline industry (at least long haul) would have died ages ago. Keep in mind that most of their is between Continental Europe/UK and Asia, and QR flying DOH-HEL does not affect this at all. On the other hand QR and other ME carriers have flown to AY target cities for ages and have not killed AY or the local carriers there.

I would say that AY's only selling point for a Finn is that the flights are non-stop. Example TK offers much better product than AY with lower price.

Change which you are also speaking about is actually happening now and when EK/QR/EY sorts out their beef with EU we can see the markets flooded with seats. Average business-class ticket price has come down and will eventually go even lower. AF is really struggling and the future for these legacy-carriers don't look so bright.

Lufthansa offers excellent service, good prices, and still makes profit.

The information about the economy class passengers now having the benefit of being able to choose whether they would like to buy the Ilta-sanomat or the International Herald Tribune is somewhat exaggerated. This benefit is only available on those European flights taking over 2 hours with the exception of one-class flights like Helsinki-Venice.

I think this is part of the promised renewal of Finnair inflight service providing extra benefits for sale. I always thought that they would bring some new forms of service which will be payable like better meals. But clearly it is not the case.

What will be the next enhancement?

My bet is that free choice of seats at the time of booking the flight will change shortly. Maybe a charge will be collected of all the seats or maybe only for exit rows. This guess is based on the fact that Finnair is making some changes in their booking system causing some troubles.

It is funny that the only good new mentioned lately on this form are those benefits concerning other OW FF programmes than AY+ (ok life-time level is a benefit for AY+) like making the Via lounge once a again a OW Sapphire lounge and allowing BA Executive club members to earn Avios points on AY3xxx wet-leased flights op by Flybe Nordic.

I would say that AY's only selling point for a Finn is that the flights are non-stop. Example TK offers much better product than AY with lower price.



There are more advantages for a finn than just non-stop...
Flight distances are much shorter, wich means less time in the air. Even if you disregard the connection flight, IST-NRT is around 20% longer than HEL-NRT. Add to this the standard 5 hour stopover in IST and the xonnection flight, you will be on the road almost twice the hours on the TK route.

AY speaks finnish, and native language on board is nice even for a seasoned traveller. It might seem silly, but home airlines are often appriciated for such soft values


I do not agree that TK offers a "much better product". For instance, C cabin is 2-3-2 and the new seats are very hard. Temperature onboard a TK night flight is to the taste of a person living in southern europe. A nordic person usually have a hard time sleeping in a 25-30 degree environment.
TK offers Y+ which AY doesn't so if you are into that TK is much better.

TK usually offers much lower prices for premium cabin (and I used them sometimes for this reason) but to say that all other airlines offer better product than AY at lower prices is an exaggeration. We all value different things in a "produt" and it will also differ from time to time. The smartest thing is to evaluate our needs for each trip and try to choose the product that best fits thoses needs.

For me, I'd like to always fly in row 1, in F-class, via Helsinki, on a 5-star asian airline at dirt cheap fares. As soon as someone is offering that my search is over.:D

The information about the economy class passengers now having the benefit of being able to choose whether they would like to buy the Ilta-sanomat or the International Herald Tribune is somewhat exaggerated. This benefit is only available on those European flights taking over 2 hours with the exception of one-class flights like Helsinki-Venice.

I think this is part of the promised renewal of Finnair inflight service providing extra benefits for sale. I always thought that they would bring some new forms of service which will be payable like better meals. But clearly it is not the case.

What will be the next enhancement?

My bet is that free choice of seats at the time of booking the flight will change shortly. Maybe a charge will be collected of all the seats or maybe only for exit rows. This guess is based on the fact that Finnair is making some changes in their booking system causing some troubles.

It is funny that the only good new mentioned lately on this form are those benefits concerning other OW FF programmes than AY+ (ok life-time level is a benefit for AY+) like making the Via lounge once a again a OW Sapphire lounge and allowing BA Executive club members to earn Avios points on AY3xxx wet-leased flights op by Flybe Nordic.

I can see that one comming (charge for seats). It is in line with the cost cutting and making more money scheme that AY must go through. Other airlines have showed it will work, and that people will accept this charge as long as the base price is low. Beats me why, but thats the way it is.


Life time level?!? Did I miss some news?

Life time level?!? Did I miss some news?

It seems most of us did...check the other thread for more news..if that news is valid I just wonder why AY didn't bother to inform their current FFs about it..

There are more advantages for a finn than just non-stop...
Flight distances are much shorter, wich means less time in the air. Even if you disregard the connection flight, IST-NRT is around 20% longer than HEL-NRT. Add to this the standard 5 hour stopover in IST and the xonnection flight, you will be on the road almost twice the hours on the TK route.

AY speaks finnish, and native language on board is nice even for a seasoned traveller. It might seem silly, but home airlines are often appriciated for such soft values


I do not agree that TK offers a "much better product". For instance, C cabin is 2-3-2 and the new seats are very hard. Temperature onboard a TK night flight is to the taste of a person living in southern europe. A nordic person usually have a hard time sleeping in a 25-30 degree environment.
TK offers Y+ which AY doesn't so if you are into that TK is much better.

TK usually offers much lower prices for premium cabin (and I used them sometimes for this reason) but to say that all other airlines offer better product than AY at lower prices is an exaggeration. We all value different things in a "produt" and it will also differ from time to time. The smartest thing is to evaluate our needs for each trip and try to choose the product that best fits thoses needs.

For me, I'd like to always fly in row 1, in F-class, via Helsinki, on a 5-star asian airline at dirt cheap fares. As soon as someone is offering that my search is over.:D

I don't want to start debate on this thread which one is better TK or AY. In my opinion AY is constantly going downhill and i can't see anything positive coming to them in the future. They should restructure their whole company.

The information about the economy class passengers now having the benefit of being able to choose whether they would like to buy the Ilta-sanomat or the International Herald Tribune is somewhat exaggerated. This benefit is only available on those European flights taking over 2 hours with the exception of one-class flights like Helsinki-Venice.

Now, this begins to sound a bit ridiculous. People are going to miss their morning/afternoon/evening papers for quite a few years to come before the younger generations raised on electronic pads become the majority.

And no newspapers available on oneclass flights? Have passengers flying to f.ex. Venice decided they do not want be informed and entertained during their trip?

Of course AY could also be preparing onboard internet access instead but that might be wishful thinking...;)

My bet is that free choice of seats at the time of booking the flight will change shortly. Maybe a charge will be collected of all the seats or maybe only for exit rows. This guess is based on the fact that Finnair is making some changes in their booking system causing some troubles.

Not too many seats to sell anyway. Bulkhead and exit rows on SH flights maybe and exit row on the longhauls. You can't really sell the economy bulkhead row on the current longhaul Airbuses as "premium seats" with the pitiful pitch and width.

As AY I would go one step ahead and join the premium economy club as soon as possible.

Maybe turn the "mini business cabin" into premium economy on longhauls if biz class demand is falling and follow the KLM/SAS model on shorthauls. The gap between biz and eco starts to be too wide with these steady "enchancements".

Finnair has lost it totally and they seem to realise it by themselves as well, they took the cost cutting route which will lead where SAS is now... Finnair advertising is all about price, nothing about quality anymore...just wait until the middle east companies kill their Asian traffic..that will be the end for Finnair, small regional LCC feeding Lufthansa or BA + maybe carrying price hunting Finnish package tourists in cramped cattle tubes..

Yes, it's now all about the price, just like LCC's do it. And they do not mention anything about price including inflight service, so is the next step to change all service chargable on intra-European flights?

Seat selection/changes on manage my booking won't be available until mid-February due to changes they are making, will also that be chargable, is interesting to see.

If this is about charging for newspapers in Y-class I have a little difficulty seeing it as the move to a full fledged low cost airline...

Yes, it's now all about the price, just like LCC's do it. And they do not mention anything about price including inflight service, so is the next step to change all service chargable on intra-European flights?

Seat selection/changes on manage my booking won't be available until mid-February due to changes they are making, will also that be chargable, is interesting to see.

Seat selection works just fine, just did it for few flights, both short and long haul w/o any issues, where did you pick that from?

Seat selection works just fine, just did it for few flights, both short and long haul w/o any issues, where did you pick that from?

It works when making the booking, but you cannot change it afterwards in the Manage My Booking. At least I have not been able to do it on several economy seat bookings.

This is from the Ay pages:

Finnair is renewing its pre-seating system
Due to the renewal of the pre-seating system, advance seat reservation is not possible for some passengers with a flight departure after March 15, 2012. Starting February 16, 2012, seats may again be reserved for all customers through the travel agency reservation systems and the Finnair website.

The chargeable seats on leisure flights (AY1000 series) may, however, be reserved normally.

The renewal of the pre-seating system does not affect the self-service check-in service. Customers may still check in on Finnair's website and at that point select a seat of their choice up to 36 hours before the departure of any Finnair flight.

We apologize for the inconvenience the renewal of the system may cause our customers.

Really strange, seat selection works perfectly ok for me..

I Have no bookings after that date, so cannot check this. But from that text it seems very plausible that there will be a new "service" (i.e. pay-service) for seat reservation.

The note "not possible for some passengers" is a little cryptic. It could also be that there will be a tiered seating selection system, so that pre-seating is allowed freely for AY+ tier members, possible at different times before departure according to tier level. (hmm, we are OT now, and didn't I make a thread for this speculation, I better go over there)

Really strange, seat selection works perfectly ok for me..

I just made a few european SH bookings and could not reserve a seat in the economy at the time of booking or through MMB after that. Upgraded to business with points and after that seat selection worked as before. Flights will be in April and May.

Finnair presentative told me on the phone the same mentioned here that Finnair is going through a renewal in their seat reservation system. She didn't, however, tell me what changes will come along the renewal.

I just made a few european SH bookings and could not reserve a seat in the economy at the time of booking or through MMB after that. Upgraded to business with points and after that seat selection worked as before. Flights will be in April and May.

Finnair presentative told me on the phone the same mentioned here that Finnair is going through a renewal in their seat reservation system. She didn't, however, tell me what changes will come along the renewal.

ok, so it's bookings made for flts after March 15 that are affected... And "reservation for SOME passengers" must mean booking class/status etc.

True Finnair style that a simple IT change takes 3-4 months and they need to shut the previous version before going live with the new...

Anyway comments on this thread would hint that they will start charging for seat selection in whY..at least from non status pax, which would make perfect sense and if true gets my ^

Now I can understand why rows 6 and 7 were opened for me a month ago, at the time of web check-in and not for my friend. I can remember one of the staff telling that seat view = available seats at the time of check-in are dependent on your tier and ticket booking class. She told that the e.g. cheapest ticket classes may only book the middle seats and for platinum members e.g. rows 6 and , having economy service, are opened when business is not full.

Now I can understand why rows 6 and 7 were opened for me a month ago, at the time of web check-in and not for my friend. I can remember one of the staff telling that seat view = available seats at the time of check-in are dependent on your tier and ticket booking class. She told that the e.g. cheapest ticket classes may only book the middle seats and for platinum members e.g. rows 6 and , having economy service, are opened when business is not full.

And then I can understand why row 6-7 been blocked off and C-cabin really crammed last flight.. I asked check in staff, but they avoided to answer my question.
If this is going to be an official bookable perk, I am not sure it will be the smartest move for AY, they might loose quite a few C-pax willing to chance getting a C-seat for Y-fare. I mean, if 5-6 C-pax do this on a flight, it is very probable that the front cabin will hold the rest of c-pax, and then it is a safe bet, those 5-6 pax may be seated in C anyway.

Well, let's see what will be announced. Quite interesting!

Pay for whY, fly in whY. Period.

Just my 2 cents.

Pay for whY, fly in whY. Period.

Just my 2 cents.

I Agree. AY seems to think differently, though.

Sitting in AY831 waiting for departure on delayed HEL-LHR flight in Y. Staff announced about possibility to buy newspapers but before starting the selling came to me, asked what newspaper I wanted as complement for AY platinum member. They offered the Business newspasper selection, not only Iltasanomat and Herald. Nice supprice.

Sitting in AY831 waiting for departure on delayed HEL-LHR flight in Y. Staff announced about possibility to buy newspapers but before starting the selling came to me, asked what newspaper I wanted as complement for AY platinum member. They offered the Business newspasper selection, not only Iltasanomat and Herald. Nice supprice.

This is interesting in my mind because that means they must now actually scan the passenger list for elites. I know they always "know" who is aboard and what level they have, but I have never experience once that they use this info for anything (in comparison to CX, where the service manager will give elites a personal welcome, and also try to make time to chat during the flight).

This is interesting in my mind because that means they must now actually scan the passenger list for elites. I know they always "know" who is aboard and what level they have, but I have never experience once that they use this info for anything (in comparison to CX, where the service manager will give elites a personal welcome, and also try to make time to chat during the flight).

This used to happen much more (early/mid 2000s') when they had the Service Chef -trained staff serving exclusively long haul J cabin..less and less during the last 6-7 years..

It always amazed me that they don't use this info. It takes a minute to scan the passenger list.

It always amazed me that they don't use this info. It takes a minute to scan the passenger list.

For greeting purposes I don't mind they don't do it...I think that's something which is sooo non-Finnish/European anyway, all pax should be greeted nicely and politely in all cabins regardless of some piece of FF plastic..

For free newspapers in whY it makes more sense..AA has free snack/drink for their elites in coach, maybe also AY could extend this beyond "Iltasanomat"..or maybe not, it's AY after all..

For greeting purposes I don't mind they don't do it...I think that's something which is sooo non-Finnish/European anyway, all pax should be greeted nicely and politely in all cabins regardless of some piece of FF plastic..
...

Sure, no need for mistreatment of anyone, but I like the "welcome back" or "good to have you onboard again" phrase. But maybe the chat-moment would be awkward, neither Finns nor Swedes are very talkative.

But there are other things they can pick up on. I have actually been approached at the end of the flight with the message "you should inform us that you are swedish, so we can address you in swedish". Well, nationality is on the passenger list...
Now, language skills seems to be deteriorating fast anyway, and for different reasons I do not like to state nationality upon boarding, but if there are swedish speaking staff onboard it would have been nice to speak swedish.

(I have noticed that the new dress code for staff now includes a name tag with flag-icons, supposedly stating each staffs language ability. So that is a nice move)

but if there are swedish speaking staff onboard it would have been nice to speak swedish.

AFAIK all Finnair onboard staff are swedish speaking.

AFAIK all Finnair onboard staff are swedish speaking.

To pass the official requirement and get "the stamp" is not same as being "swedish speaking" - true for many government officials etc...true also for many Finnair staff...they will all get by with the basics but being able to have a real conversation with a native Swede in Swedish...I'd give a wild guess that if 50% can do it that's a lot..I might be totally wrong (as I often am) but I know some AY staff and most of them are on very basic level with their Swedish ;)

For greeting purposes I don't mind they don't do it...I think that's something which is sooo non-Finnish/European anyway, all pax should be greeted nicely and politely in all cabins regardless of some piece of FF plastic..

For free newspapers in whY it makes more sense..AA has free snack/drink for their elites in coach, maybe also AY could extend this beyond "Iltasanomat"..or maybe not, it's AY after all..

I'm quite in the same boat. The airline should remember the "envy factor" and not irritate non-status passengers unnecessarily. And just as mentioned by NoWindowSeat, reserving friendly greetings only to a chosen few would seem strange in a service industry.

The best way to hand out newspapers, drinks etc. to status holders would probably be to include some form of "payment" for the extra helpings, like swiping your FF card in the FA's reader or using vouchers. Then it would seem like a normal transaction to the other passengers, although meaning extra hassle for the crew.

I'm just beginning to be a bit worried what impact these changes will have on AY's so far excellent European business cabin. Are we going to see the Y cabin from two years ago as the new standard for biz in 2013?

Sure, no need for mistreatment of anyone, but I like the "welcome back" or "good to have you onboard again" phrase. But maybe the chat-moment would be awkward, neither Finns nor Swedes are very talkative.

I think the problem is that the natural place to do so would be at the door when you enter, and passenger list does not help there to identify which passenger is which when they come in in a (semi) random order.

But there are other things they can pick up on. I have actually been approached at the end of the flight with the message "you should inform us that you are swedish, so we can address you in swedish". Well, nationality is on the passenger list...
Now, language skills seems to be deteriorating fast anyway, and for different reasons I do not like to state nationality upon boarding, but if there are swedish speaking staff onboard it would have been nice to speak swedish.
I think it is a little much to ask for them to check the nationality of each passenger from the papers before talking to them, especially since the nationality does not even tell you the preferred language of the passenger, so it would still be nothing but a guess.

I don't think you need to actually state you nationality and preferred language but simply to answer in Swedish (if that is your preferred language) when they start talking to you. That is what I do if an airline gets my preferred language wrong (which happens all the time). Why make a big problem out of such a small thing.
And while sure not every AY cabin crew member is fluent in Swedish, I think they can all manage the "what would you like to drink" level of conversation.

AFAIK all Finnair onboard staff are swedish speaking.

To pass the official requirement and get "the stamp" is not same as being "swedish speaking" - true for many government officials etc...true also for many Finnair staff...they will all get by with the basics but being able to have a real conversation with a native Swede in Swedish...I'd give a wild guess that if 50% can do it that's a lot..I might be totally wrong (as I often am) but I know some AY staff and most of them are on very basic level with their Swedish ;)


As for the language requirements, maybe swedish skills are not required onboard AY anymore? For instance, I saw one CA today with a nametag displaying only finnish and english flag. The purser had finnish, swedish and english flag on her nametag. This was on HEL-GOT, ie a swedish bound flight, where I would presume they would try to schedule swedish speaking staff.

Those of the staff that do declare they speak swedish are often not confident enough to use it. This morning for example, the swedish speaking CA switched from swedish to english when she wanted to ask "do you want more juice", The conversation up to that point had been in swedish.

Swedish is an official national language of Finland, but I fear it is looked down upon by some people for political reasons. Maybe I am wrong (if so please correct me!) but I think that even government officials are no longer required to speak swedish. Only cities with a majority of swedish speaking are obligated to serve in swedish, and as soon as the rate of swedish speaking population goes below 50%, that city's officials turns into only finnish speaking. Again, I may be wrong, so please correct me instead of taking offense!

Why I mention this is that I think it is a development in the finnish society as a whole, and that it is only natural (yet sad) that this also is reflected in the deteriorating language skills onboard.



I'm quite in the same boat. The airline should remember the "envy factor" and not irritate non-status passengers unnecessarily. And just as mentioned by NoWindowSeat, reserving friendly greetings only to a chosen few would seem strange in a service industry.
...


I think the problem is that the natural place to do so would be at the door when you enter, and passenger list does not help there to identify which passenger is which when they come in in a (semi) random order.

...



I was thinking more in terms of what CX do. The service manager will circulate the cabin and come and visit the elites onboard with an personal greeting. I think it is possible to do in a "non-envious" way.


And for extra services, isn't envy one of the things the airline wants to create? Today, the only acknowledgment of AY+ members are the standard announcement "welcome aboard, and especially our Finnair plus and oneworld members". So the casual flyer will never know why he/she should bother with becoming a member of the loyalty program. But if he/she envy the perks an AY+ member gets, then there is a driving force.

On my first CX flight ever years ago, I was non-elite. I was very pleasantly surprised by how well they took care of me. And I was intrigued by the even warmer care for some of the pax in the cabin. I did envy this, but not in a jealous way. I was happy for the service I was getting, but Oh, how I wanted to be that other kind of passenger!

I think the problem is that the natural place to do so would be at the door when you enter, and passenger list does not help there to identify which passenger is which when they come in in a (semi) random order.

I think that problem doesn´t exist. Most airlines nowadays require that you present your BP at the door. (Definetely if you try to get in to the C Cabin..)
And on the BP you can easily read name and status.

And for extra services, isn't envy one of the things the airline wants to create? Today, the only acknowledgment of AY+ members are the standard announcement "welcome aboard, and especially our Finnair plus and oneworld members". So the casual flyer will never know why he/she should bother with becoming a member of the loyalty program. But if he/she envy the perks an AY+ member gets, then there is a driving force.


Actually it´s even worse. The message reads something like "We welcome our passangers aboard on this flight... and we also welcomes our Finnair Plus members.
(At least in Swedish, I´m not 100 % sure about the English message)
I´ve been hearing that so many times, and every time I wonder why not anyone with higher Swedish skills tell them to change the word "also" to "especially".
Now it just sounds ridicolous!

Only cities with a majority of swedish speaking are obligated to serve in swedish, and as soon as the rate of swedish speaking population goes below 50%, that city's officials turns into only finnish speaking. Again, I may be wrong, so please correct me instead of taking offense!

It's nothing like that. Otherwise Helsinki would be monolingual (6.1% swedish-speaking).

For a municipality to be bilingual, at least 8% or 3000 inhabitants have to speak a minority language as their primary language. A municipality can become monolingual if the minority language speaker share drops below 6%.

Only 30 out of the 336 municipalities in Finland fulfill these requirements and are thus bilingual. 12 of these have a swedish-speaking majority and 18 a finnish-speaking. 19 of the monolingual municipalities are swedish-speaking and the rest (287) finnish-speaking.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Finland (the numbers were outdated on wikipedia, used http://www.kommunerna.net/sv/kommuner/svensk-tvasprakiga/Sidor/default.aspx for them)

I think that problem doesn´t exist. Most airlines nowadays require that you present your BP at the door. (Definetely if you try to get in to the C Cabin..)
And on the BP you can easily read name and status.
I guess we have been flying different airlines then, as I'd say that most of the time they do not require you to show the boarding pass, and never has anybody ran after me to check my BP when they've noticed that I'm taking a seat in C (or F).
I don't know why would anybody "try to get in there" with a Y BP, as that joy would be very short as within minutes either a) somebody would come up to you and say "excuse me that's my seat" or b) the crew would notice that the pax count in C is wrong and then ask for you BP.

In wide-bodies they often ask for a BP to guide you to the right aisle, but even there it is usually enough if you state your seat.

I was thinking more in terms of what CX do. The service manager will circulate the cabin and come and visit the elites onboard with an personal greeting. I think it is possible to do in a "non-envious" way.

And for extra services, isn't envy one of the things the airline wants to create?

On my first CX flight ever years ago, I was non-elite. I was very pleasantly surprised by how well they took care of me. And I was intrigued by the even warmer care for some of the pax in the cabin. I did envy this, but not in a jealous way. I was happy for the service I was getting, but Oh, how I wanted to be that other kind of passenger!

I second this! Positive envy is the key.

Actually it´s even worse. The message reads something like "We welcome our passangers aboard on this flight... and we also welcomes our Finnair Plus members.
(At least in Swedish, I´m not 100 % sure about the English message)
I´ve been hearing that so many times, and every time I wonder why not anyone with higher Swedish skills tell them to change the word "also" to "especially".
Now it just sounds ridicolous!

And the message is the same on every flight so it does not even feel that it would targetted to the possible elites onboard. And the "also" is diminutive.

Sure, no need for mistreatment of anyone, but I like the "welcome back" or "good to have you onboard again" phrase.

This would not be too hard even for the Finnish cabin crew... A small acknowledgment would be in order. And the cost - nothing.

I second this! Positive envy is the key.

Sure, but does a hello really make somebody envy their rowmate? I don't think so. If anything, I'd be less enthusiastic about a FF program if discover that there is a high tier pax next to me and all he gets is a "special hello". Lip service without any actual perks is not a plus in my opinion.
More likely reaction would be something like "Well, I guess I'm not missing out on anything since he's stuck here in the back of the bus with no special perks just like me."

Then again if I see he's getting free drinks (that I don't) the seat between us "happens to be" empty and so on, then I maybe could feel some kind of positive envy, but not for a hello.

That just me though.

And the message is the same on every flight so it does not even feel that it would targeted to the possible elites onboard. And the "also" is diminutive.

How would you know whether or not they do it on flights without elites if you are an AY elite yourself?

Anyway, there are some kind of AY or OW elites probably on most flights, and even if there are not, why should they not use the opportunity to advertise the program, it's not like the elites that are not even onboard would or even could get insulted. Plus, I don't no know if having no frequent flyers aboard is something they want to advertise if that is the case: "No one likes to fly with us that often".

I think that problem doesn´t exist. Most airlines nowadays require that you present your BP at the door. (Definetely if you try to get in to the C Cabin..)
And on the BP you can easily read name and status.

Well, it depends. UK-registered airlines in particular must do this, but they do it to check that you are on the correct flight (not to guard access to premium cabins).

It's nothing like that.
...
...
Thanks duvin, I understand the system much better now!


Actually it´s even worse. The message reads something like "We welcome our passangers aboard on this flight... and we also welcomes our Finnair Plus members.
(At least in Swedish, I´m not 100 % sure about the English message)
I´ve been hearing that so many times, and every time I wonder why not anyone with higher Swedish skills tell them to change the word "also" to "especially".
Now it just sounds ridicolous!

We should realise that finn-swedish is not the exact same language as swede-swedish. It uses some words in a different, sometimes more original, way. So this sentence may or may not be a bit off, but it is presumptuous of a swede to think we know the correct way.
This distinction between the languages may not be know even to finns, so this can be a explanation why some lacks confidence in speaking it. They really shouldn't! It is a careful, polite and beautiful language and Finns should be proud of it!

Anyway, my point was that this sentence have been the only status recognition onboard, so if new perks onboard targets status holders I think it is a good move.

Sure, but does a hello really make somebody envy their rowmate? I don't think so. If anything, I'd be less enthusiastic about a FF program if discover that there is a high tier pax next to me and all he gets is a "special hello". Lip service without any actual perks is not a plus in my opinion.
More likely reaction would be something like "Well, I guess I'm not missing out on anything since he's stuck here in the back of the bus with no special perks just like me."

Then again if I see he's getting free drinks (that I don't) the seat between us "happens to be" empty and so on, then I maybe could feel some kind of positive envy, but not for a hello.

That just me though.

...


You are right that it is a bit of a cultural thing, and maybe it wouldn't work here. Status and hierarchy is not that big deal in nordic countries, as it is in some asian.

One thing that this special welcome actually achieves is less fuzz from DYKWIAs. If the airline starts the journey by saying "yeah, we actually DO know who you are", people tend to be less obnoxious.
Especially if there have been some problem this care for people comes first and helps smooth over anything.

On a longhaul AY flight the chief-of-cabin probably spends the first 45 minutes of the flight trying to get the IFE working (loudly moaning), finally resorts to re-set the system, which includes disable seat adjustments for 20 minutes. Meanwhile, no staff is present in the cabin. No one tends to the passengers (elites or not).
It is a completely different perspective on what a leadership roll in service is about.

I still remember the shock on my first CX flight NRT-HKG, when the purser came to me and said that

"Mr WIlco, I see that you are a Finnair elite member and would like to welcome you on board. If you need anything during the flight, I'm here for you!"

Cost of doing this? 0 Goodwill attained? A lot

On LH l/h C and especially LX l/h F they do the same, but in F I guess it has nothing to do with status, just sitting there is enough :)

I still remember the shock on my first CX flight NRT-HKG, when the purser came to me and said that

"Mr WIlco, I see that you are a Finnair elite member and would like to welcome you on board. If you need anything during the flight, I'm here for you!"

Cost of doing this? 0 Goodwill attained? A lot


I remember it equally well and was also positively surprised and have liked the gesture ever since when travelling with Cathay (actually, I like almost everything with Cathay..). I have never been in CX Y so don't know if they do it there as well, most likely they do?

With that being said, I still think that this is a cultural issue more than anything and it's totally OK for me to have such things in Asia but if Finnair staff would start doing something like that it would (in my honest opinion) feel faking more than anything, it's just not fitting the overall culture in Nordic...I understand it's most likely faking in Asia as well but at least it feels more natural (=less awkward) to us Europeans :)

On a longhaul AY flight the chief-of-cabin probably spends the first 45 minutes of the flight trying to get the IFE working (loudly moaning), finally resorts to re-set the system, which includes disable seat adjustments for 20 minutes. Meanwhile, no staff is present in the cabin. No one tends to the passengers (elites or not).
It is a completely different perspective on what a leadership roll in service is about.

This is interesting comment and I'm sure it was not your point at all but just wanted to comment that as a passenger I'd expect the crew to serve all passengers within the same cabin with same service level and quality.

During my years as OW top tier I have often travelled in premium cabins with one of my 4 OW FF numbers on the reservation which carried no status at that time and never noticed any differencies (greetings aside). That's the way it should be. I can understand some priority with main course selections and such but general service level should be the same to all...with that being said I've more than once witnessed when AY J staff go absolutely crazy when they see some "celebrity" in the cabin...must be even more awkward to the "celebrity" than it is for the rest of the passengers..

I guess we have been flying different airlines then, as I'd say that most of the time they do not require you to show the boarding pass, and never has anybody ran after me to check my BP when they've noticed that I'm taking a seat in C (or F).
I don't know why would anybody "try to get in there" with a Y BP, as that joy would be very short as within minutes either a) somebody would come up to you and say "excuse me that's my seat" or b) the crew would notice that the pax count in C is wrong and then ask for you BP.

In wide-bodies they often ask for a BP to guide you to the right aisle, but even there it is usually enough if you state your seat.
Like someone already wrote, more and more airlines now require BP at the door, mostly for security reasons.
But they´ve also been aware of that it earlier was not uncommon that Y pax followed premium friends into their cabins, chatting with them while watching which seats where free. Once FA noticed there were too many pax in the cabin, it was often easier just to let it pass.

This is interesting comment and I'm sure it was not your point at all but just wanted to comment that as a passenger I'd expect the crew to serve all passengers within the same cabin with same service level and quality.

I completely agree. It would be strange if some who has paid his or her ticket would get lesser service than someone with status who perhaps has been up graded from economy.

A little OT, but someone here mentioned DYKWIA attitude. Occasionally I have witnessed a situation where someone with status (presumably gained through work related travel) acts like an idiot with all sorts demands when having an annual holiday trip with the family and travelling in economy.

I can understand some priority with main course selections and such but general service level should be the same to all...

In December, I flew HEL-JFK in J in row 5. Before they served the main course an FA came to me and asked which main course I would like. He didn't serve it then, but set it aside and served it to me when the cart reached row 5. I thought this was a very nice gesture and wondered why he did that. Now I found out... However, I didn't notice that he would have done it with anyone else.

As a side note, whereas I think the last row of the first J cabin is the best one, it tends to be the last one to get service. Is it common that they serve rows 6-7 first and then start from row 1, as they did both on HEL-JFK and JFK-HEL?

As a side note, whereas I think the last row of the first J cabin is the best one, it tends to be the last one to get service. Is it common that they serve rows 6-7 first and then start from row 1, as they did both on HEL-JFK and JFK-HEL?

I guess it varies. In October I flew HEL-HKG and HKG-HEL in the minicabin, and they started service from there. Earlier this week I flew JFK-HEL (again in the minicabin), and they started service from the main biz cabin. Maybe there is a system to this. Like flipping a coin? :p

Out of curiosity: why do you choose the minicabin? I have always avoided it since I fear it's too noisy because of Y and the baby cot seats just behind it. OTOH, once my seat in the forward cabin was malfunctioning so I had to change seats and the only ones available were in the minicabin, which on that flight was very quiet and peaceful. Still keep avoiding it, though...

Out of curiosity: why do you choose the minicabin? I have always avoided it since I fear it's too noisy because of Y and the baby cot seats just behind it. OTOH, once my seat in the forward cabin was malfunctioning so I had to change seats and the only ones available were in the minicabin, which on that flight was very quiet and peaceful. Still keep avoiding it, though...

I'm totally with you on this..would never pre-select to be seated there if there's room in the front cabin..

I'm totally with you on this..would never pre-select to be seated there if there's room in the front cabin..

Actually on JFK-HEL there was no room in the front cabin when I got around choosing the seats (there was only one empty seat in J). HEL-HKG I just wanted some variety, not a peep from behind on that route either. The worst recent experience with kids on board was last week LHR-ORD where I sat on row 13, the last row of biz. (I had pre-selected row 6, but missed my original flight in LHR because of the weather conditions.) One family, three kids, shall-we-say-lenient parents :mad: I cranked up the music and was grateful for the Bose headphones.

Are the newspapers supposed to be sold on all flights...I didn't notice anything today on HEL-OSL..just the usual snacks/drinks were offered..?

Some observations, not all of them very pleasant from my recent LHR-trip.

Some FlyBe ATR-72´s do have intolerable seat pitch. Being 178 cm tall, it is not possible to sit straight, knees together. The planes with 72 seats are the worst and often transport cattle class from and to KUO, unfortunately. Those with 68 seats offer slightly better legroom. Above rows 18 and 19 there is always airline junk in the overhead bins, so do not select those rows in advance.

Food and beverages cost. A cheese/ham roll with coffee, juice or soft drink is €6, 4 cc congac/whisky €5, and sparkling wine €6. Available also on shorter domestic legs...

A321 to LHR in Y - as the employer expects - in 12D appeared to have Emerald seat blocking in working. Papers were sold for €3 a piece. I received complimentary Iltasanomat when I asked, if the Emerald have to pay as well. It was not offered spontaneously. Cup of coffee, quite fresh and large cheese/ham roll, and glass of orange juice were served free of charge. The drinks were like in FlyBe, champagne was €9 a piece.

Back onboard A320 upgraded to J - no one gets to know about this ;) - with high expectations in 1F. Newspapers were handed out before departure which was timely at 18:05. Hot towels were handed out 18:40. The first drink was offered 18:50, followed promptly by Asian-style tasty supper. The solo FA in the front galley could not have acted any faster, no blame for her, but did it not use to be more FAs in J cabin earlier? If they expect to fill the front cabins with their ridiculous pricing, there needs to be some improvement.

Plane was parked at the furthermost corner of the tarmac and bus took the passengers nearby gate 38. Had to run - no time to visit even the loo - to catch the KUO-flight at gate 19A with bus transfer as well. 45 minutes did not feel quite enough for this journey.

Some observations, not all of them very pleasant from my recent LHR-trip.

The solo FA in the front galley could not have acted any faster, no blame for her, but did it not use to be more FAs in J cabin earlier?

How was the load? If they have "good" load in J they usually have another FA helping out with the initial service who then goes behind the curtain to help out after drinks/trays are out.

Happy to hear you appreciated the J food offerings on LHR route with AY, I've mostly been dissapointed lately and prefer BA J on this route over AY (minus the hotel towel which BA doesn't offer anymore..also drinks are still more free flowing on AY, which is nice if one is into that as with BA the call button is needed more..)

Sometimes BA also skips the pre-dinner drink service and just hand out the tray first, which is not nice but at least the food is (usually) substantially better than on AY. Naturally they will serve you with whatever drinks you want but it's not really nice zipping your GT/champers while the food is getting cold on the tray.

For me these are some of those small things that separate SH J from Y ;)

Plane was parked at the furthermost corner of the tarmac and bus took the passengers nearby gate 38. Had to run - no time to visit even the loo - to catch the KUO-flight at gate 19A with bus transfer as well. 45 minutes did not feel quite enough for this journey.

This has tended to happen to me for the past couple of years IIRC when flying AY from LHR to HEL. When it started happening, they were renovating some of the gates, but it all looked quite finished the last time I was there, which made me wonder if this is a service that is destined to be bussed forever?

Happy to hear you appreciated the J food offerings on LHR route with AY, I've mostly been dissapointed lately and prefer BA J on this route over AY (minus the hotel towel which BA doesn't offer anymore..also drinks are still more free flowing on AY, which is nice if one is into that as with BA the call button is needed more..)

I prefer AY catering on London route. When you connect from transatlantic flight you usually have either choise of Finnair flight after 10AM or BA flight after 11AM. While Finnair has proper lunch on their midday flight, BA serves extended breakfast which is neither lunch or proper breakfast... Besides that you usually get gate departure when flying Finnair out of LHR.

I prefer AY catering on London route. When you connect from transatlantic flight you usually have either choise of Finnair flight after 10AM or BA flight after 11AM. While Finnair has proper lunch on their midday flight, BA serves extended breakfast which is neither lunch or proper breakfast... Besides that you usually get gate departure when flying Finnair out of LHR.

Very good points and example how preferences vary..personally I like to enjoy full BF in the (arrivals) lounge and don't really care about the lunch/bf offerings ex-LHR that much. Dinner affair on BA is better with BA, IMO.

The Gate/bus thing is interesting as many/most AY London flights are stand arrivals at HEL and BA departures are bus gates at T3..50/50..

There were around 10 passengers in J sitting on rows 1 to 8, so it was very sparsely populated.

I share the above mentioned observations about busgates and jetways at LHR. BA has a priority bus only for inbound Club passengers, which is a nice gesture. In Helsinki I have not found much consistency. At least the morning LHR flights outbound have been boarded using jetways. All in all, I hate trekking the way to the gates 34 to 38 and domestic connections. UK to Schengen ASAP!

Actually it´s even worse. The message reads something like "We welcome our passangers aboard on this flight... and we also welcomes our Finnair Plus members.
(At least in Swedish, I´m not 100 % sure about the English message)
I´ve been hearing that so many times, and every time I wonder why not anyone with higher Swedish skills tell them to change the word "also" to "especially".
Now it just sounds ridicolous!
Actually, on my flight yesterday they had changed the "also" to "especially".
Guess they maybe followed this thread...

Just booked an insanely cheap flight to CDG on AY. Flew them back in 2000 when I was in high school and don't know much about them.

1 Oneworld Ruby and 1 no-status passenger (I'll have 24800 miles on AA believe it or not...so I'll hit Ruby after the first flight too).

Anyway to get pre-assigned seats w/o paying? I didn't see anything, though I could have missed something in this thread as I skimmed it on my iPhone. Odd that both window seats in the exit rows are the *only* free seats...but we'd rather not sit apart. Even seats in nowhere's land are $27.

The seating policy will change on Finnair.
Kindly look the web site https://www.finnair.com/GB/GB/flights/travel-extras/additional-baggage-select-your-seat-more/select-your-seat for new rules about who can pre-book and does it cost for you.

Briefly
You can select a seat via the Select Your Seat service free of charge in the following cases:

You’re travelling in Finnair Business Class.
The booking class in your ticket is Y, B, H, G, A or X.
You’re an unaccompanied minor, travelling in a group (in a booking class G or A), or have special needs, for example a wheelchair (in this case, you can reserve your seat in advance only by telephone).
You’re a Finnair Plus Platinum or Gold member, or a oneworld Emerald or Sapphire member.

Just landed from a short haul J flight and they handed the newspapers after takeoff...found it really strange and first thought they don't have them anymore even in J...during gate waiting/taxi/takeoff is really the time when the daily paper is most usefull for most pax as you cannot use IFE/your personal laptop/ipad or whatever..hope it was just a crew issue tonight..other than this minor glitch the service was very good and attentive, as most of the times in AY J.

Just landed from a short haul J flight and they handed the newspapers after takeoff...found it really strange and first thought they don't have them anymore even in J...during gate waiting/taxi/takeoff is really the time when the daily paper is most usefull for most pax as you cannot use IFE/your personal laptop/ipad or whatever..hope it was just a crew issue tonight..other than this minor glitch the service was very good and attentive, as most of the times in AY J.

I thought that was the routine? Handing out newspapers in the cabin is a way of prioitize the J pax, I guess.

I have never seen newspapers in the gate, but before this change, they used to offer newspapers during boarding. (at least on my routes - intra scandivaia). That meant that if you didn't board early, you might not get a paper at all. Sometimes they kept a stash of newspapers hidden, and offered them to J pax later on, but not always.
So if they are cutting down on papers, I actually prefer they hand them out in the cabin. Best would be if they did a quick run in the j cabin as soon as there is room for it (there are always a few minutes "free" before take offpreparations start)

Sounds like United's Jeff Smisek has gone to work for Finnair!

I thought that was the routine? Handing out newspapers in the cabin is a way of prioitize the J pax, I guess.

I have never seen newspapers in the gate, but before this change, they used to offer newspapers during boarding.

They used to have them routinely at the gate/ac door on many routes for all pax with additional runs in the J cabin on/after boarding..but in any case I really want my paper on boarding so that I can read during taxi/takeoff when electronic deviced are not available...not after the seat belt sign goes off after takeoff like last night..

I kind of agree with both intuition and NoWindowSeat: My previous experience with Finnair shorthaul J has more than once been that Y passengers have not just emptied the newspaper stash but also taken all pillows and blankets from the J overhead bins.

Would not mind at all if the cabin crew controls all of those items and only reserves them for J passengers apart from elderly etc. pax in Y. But that does not prevent newspapers from being handed out before take-off.

Btw, how has the J meal and drinks service been these days?

Btw, how has the J meal and drinks service been these days?

I flew HEL-BUD on Monday in C (surprisingly high C load 6 or 7 pax - I wonder how many revenue, though)

The meal was OKish breakfast, yoghurt, fruit salad, hot egg dish - made from actual eggs, it seemed. I cannot much comment on the drinks as I drank only water and coffe, but they had champagne on the tray and also wine. They asked 2 or 3 times during the flight if I needed some more drink, but there were no pre-flight drink service.

Newspapers were handed out pre-flight, I don't think they were offered to Y cabin all (stashed in front overhead bin)

Btw, how has the J meal and drinks service been these days?

No changes recently, good and attentive service. Meal quality varies a lot, though..some short haul main courses would have been bad in coach 10 years ago but that's how it is today..

Last week took HEL-LHR with BA and back with AY, both in C. Both are equally good, food nice on both, BA gives you a main course option, AY has a small appetizer and BA has a small cheese... otherwise not much difference....

Service attentative, champagne and drinks offered regularly.

AY has a good selection of newspapers in C, in Y only one paper available for purchase. BA didn't hand out any onboard, some are available at gate for all passengers.

No complaints!

The luxury seats of A319 are under replacement. I sampled yesterday one of the new ones with gray fabric from LHR to HEL. The galleys have been jammed smaller and there are 138 seats aboard. In the near future, the A321´s will have 196 seats.

Finding a decent location behind the curtain has become problematic as well. No use of the front lavatories whatsoever. The passage to rear lavatories is blocked by the FAs and food/drink/sales carts for most part of the flight. Thus a seat at the rear end would be more preferable but getting out of the plane takes forever if seated there. Seat blocking for emeralds is very inconsistent in the entire plane.

Sitting in AY831 waiting for departure on delayed HEL-LHR flight in Y. Staff announced about possibility to buy newspapers but before starting the selling came to me, asked what newspaper I wanted as complement for AY platinum member. They offered the Business newspasper selection, not only Iltasanomat and Herald. Nice supprice.

I flew with AY metal in whY?? to London today with BA ticket and BA number on res...was handed Finnish newspaper free of charge after take takeoff, nice gesture..thought they'd only bother for AY ticketed AY top tiers.

^ to the purser.

A little OT, but interesting notes from SAS Eurobonus site. No more champange in SAS short haul business class, instead some cheap sparkling wine is served. Also, no more champange as a pre departure drink in long haul business class, among other changes!

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/sas-eurobonus/1353567-no-more-champagne-economy-extra.html

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/sas-eurobonus/1394293-inflight-product-changes-long-haul-oct-1-a.html


SAS calls this as a desicion "to broaden our horizon". I wonder when Finnair decides to copy this "excellent idea" as part of their service enchantment or whatever Finnair calls its service reductions nowadays.

I do not remember AY serve champagne?

I guess this is what we can call a Hybrid model of aviation business:

1>, Get rid of many legacy heavy cost items (champagne, expensive wine etc)
2>, Keep some items but under tighter budget control, still free to selected customer (newspaper, seat selction... etc)
3>, The rest of cabin to be operated as LCC though keep the route structure of legacy

Soon it would be better to travel with a charter airline than these hybrid carriers (AY, SAS...).

I do not remember AY serve champagne?

Your memory isn't doing any favours for you then... ;)

They do serve champagne in J and I cannot imagine them trying to cut it...they are trying to fight against Asian/Gulf carriers for the Europe-Asia biz pax and they need to keep both the J hard and soft products relatively competetive..

Indeed AY serves Champagne in J class during boarding. But once the plane takes off, you have to ask for it and ask again if you want to top up.

Indeed AY serves Champagne in J class during boarding. But once the plane takes off, you have to ask for it and ask again if you want to top up.

As in (almost) every airline top ups are highly dependent of the crew. I have had very good top up rates on flights I've been on drinking mode. Especially older AY FAs are happy to serve as in old days :D

As in (almost) every airline top ups are highly dependent of the crew. I have had very good top up rates on flights I've been on drinking mode. Especially older AY FAs are happy to serve as in old days :D

The last few AY longhauls have been really good in this regard. Mind you, I flew HND-LHR yesterday on BA, during and after the lunch service they were very active in offering top-ups. With the benefit of hindsight, I should have declined the fourth glass... :p

Free seat selection for OWE gone :confused:? Tried today to select seats for Dec flights, and a charge appeared every time. A320 exit row seats were marketed as with extra legroom and €6 a piece.

They didn't advertise any such enhancement.. Webpage still says OW emerald and sapphire is not charged.

They did however take down all systems the other day for an overhaul. Maybe that is the culprit.

No new information announced concerning the current policy so you should be able to select your seat in advance.

I have experienced the same problem a couple of times but when I have later returned to the booking the system has been working and the seats have been confirmed.

Maybe you can give another try in a day or two so it will probably work. :) (If not, hopefully calling AY service center will fix it.)

No new information announced concerning the current policy so you should be able to select your seat in advance.

I have experienced the same problem a couple of times but when I have later returned to the booking the system has been working and the seats have been confirmed.

Maybe you can give another try in a day or two so it probably. :) (If not, hopefully calling AY service center will fix it.)

I can second this. As an OWS (even this time as an AY+ Gold) I've had intermittent problems with seat selection.

I can second this. As an OWS (even this time as an AY+ Gold) I've had intermittent problems with seat selection.

At this moment I am not able to select my seat for Wednesday's flight to PVG. Moreover, KVS shows plenty of space in all booking classes, but practically all seats in C appear to be reserved. Something's screwy...

At this moment I am not able to select my seat for Wednesday's flight to PVG. Moreover, KVS shows plenty of space in all booking classes, but practically all seats in C appear to be reserved. Something's screwy...

Don't they allocate seat at the time of booking for all J fares..? Or would you like to change your seat?

Something is clearly broken - I did a completely new booking logged in as plat. ALL seats are marked as occupied.

--
added - on the flybe-routes. AY flights seems to work...

Don't they allocate seat at the time of booking for all J fares..? Or would you like to change your seat?

Yes, I want to change my seat.

At check in time, there appears to be much more availability than what was shown at seat change option. To get good seats have to be checking out Internet at inconvenient hours.

Carry on rules have changed - thanks again AY :mad:!

If you are travelling with a Business or Business Saver ticket or you are a Finnair Plus Platinum, Gold, Silver or Finnair Club member: two pieces with a maximum combined weight of 10 kg (22 lb), consisting of one bag with maximum external dimensions of 56x45x25 cm (22x18x10 in.), and one briefcase or laptop computer.

Otherwise: one piece with a maximum weight of 8 kg (17.5 lb) and maximum external dimensions of 56x45x25 cm (22x18x10 in.).

Even the new Pro-Y-ticket does not appear have two piece cabin luggage allowance! For once I am glad about my AY Club card. OWE and OWS can, however, have an extra checked in bag up to 23 kg.

Carry on rules have changed - thanks again AY :mad:!

If you are travelling with a Business or Business Saver ticket or you are a Finnair Plus Platinum, Gold, Silver or Finnair Club member: two pieces with a maximum combined weight of 10 kg (22 lb), consisting of one bag with maximum external dimensions of 56x45x25 cm (22x18x10 in.), and one briefcase or laptop computer.

Otherwise: one piece with a maximum weight of 8 kg (17.5 lb) and maximum external dimensions of 56x45x25 cm (22x18x10 in.).

Even the new Pro-Y-ticket does not appear have two piece cabin luggage allowance! For once I am glad about my AY Club card. OWE and OWS can, however, have an extra checked in bag up to 23 kg.


I cannot see them enforcing this very strongly...
If they start to enforce this rule, atleast for me its just another reason to choose BA.

I cannot see them enforcing this very strongly...
If they start to enforce this rule, atleast for me its just another reason to choose BA.

I can't remember anyone ever checking my carry-on in HEL on AY flights. Last week in PVG my carry-on was weighted (13 kg), the guy asked if I had laptop inside, I said 'yes' (which was true), and the carry-on received 'cabin' tag.

My complaint is not about weight. It is about number. Another seemingly smart but actually smart-@ssed decision in attempt to pull more money out from companies with business traveling employees - w/o shiny AY Plus cards.

E.g., AA/BA cabin baggage limits have no weight restriction and carry on + laptop is allowed for everyone. Perhaps in the future, they should enforce 8 kg / one piece limit in Y to all AY Plus card holders?

I can't remember anyone ever checking my carry-on in HEL on AY flights. Last week in PVG my carry-on was weighted (13 kg), the guy asked if I had laptop inside, I said 'yes' (which was true), and the carry-on received 'cabin' tag.

And you were in business class?

And you were in business class?

Yes.

Really good rule, 1 piece of hand luggage -rule in coach should include all, regardless of status, maybe plats excluded but do plats fly coach..;)

If people need to haul more just check it in or pay for J.

I really hope this rule will be enforced!

Strange, that someone would support such an initiative. Must like a lot the LCC:s? Many people are forced to travel in economy by their employer, and not everyone can enjoy direct flights only.

(Main reason for me not checking in luggage are the tight connections at HEL. I actually have two pieces 8 kg + 2 kg along for short European trips. Luckily, keeping the Club card does not require any effort, and for flights longer than 4 hours I am allowed to book in J...)

maybe plats excluded but do plats fly coach..;)

Inside Europe I fly coach! Or at least purchase economy tickets...

Strange, that someone would support such an initiative.
...

I dislike that there is a need for it, but I too support the initiative.

The biggest reason for me to avoid BA intra-eu is due to what they allow people to hog on-board. It's just crazy!
(And on BA it is not even possible to circumvent this by travelling in J. If you're not first to board you simple have no overhead space for any luggage. Anywhere.)


Also, if this is a new value-add to AY silver, then that is good too.

Strange, that someone would support such an initiative. Must like a lot the LCC:s? Many people are forced to travel in economy by their employer, and not everyone can enjoy direct flights only.

(Main reason for me not checking in luggage are the tight connections at HEL. I actually have two pieces 8 kg + 2 kg along for short European trips. Luckily, keeping the Club card does not require any effort, and for flights longer than 4 hours I am allowed to book in J...)

I support it because I'm simply sick and tired of boarding lasting forever when people haul half of their carderobe inside aluminium tubes, simple as that. For me it's not the piece issue, it's more volume issue...but much easier to control pieces and this will hopefully force people to check in their wheelies more and more!

And for the record I do not fly LCCs, never have (won't say I never will but it's going to require a lot to happen)

I dislike that there is a need for it, but I too support the initiative.

The biggest reason for me to avoid BA intra-eu is due to what they allow people to hog on-board. It's just crazy!
(And on BA it is not even possible to circumvent this by travelling in J. If you're not first to board you simple have no overhead space for any luggage. Anywhere.)


Also, if this is a new value-add to AY silver, then that is good too.

This is so very true! Just had 4 Club flights with BA and on each leg the Club overhead space was taken by coach pax before I boarded...I really hate that I need to board early (with J ticket) to secure overhead space.

And do not even get me started with AA...luckily AA crew are much better in protecting their front cabin than their BA colleagues.

oneworld Emerald -jäsenetuna voit ottaa Finnairin lennoille käsimatkatavaraa yhden laukun sekä yhden salkun tai kannettavan tietokoneen. Yhteensä kaksi laukkua, joiden yhteispaino on enintään 10 kg. Kirjattavaa priority matkatavaraa sinulla voi olla lippuun merkityn lisäksi yksi laukku. Yhden kirjattavan matkatavaran enimmäispaino on 23 kg.

...popped up after online check in at London. Seems that information concerning the hand luggage limits is misleading and not much has changed, a false alarm therefore, hopefully. My bin space hogging thus continues :p!

oneworld Emerald -jäsenetuna voit ottaa Finnairin lennoille käsimatkatavaraa yhden laukun sekä yhden salkun tai kannettavan tietokoneen. Yhteensä kaksi laukkua, joiden yhteispaino on enintään 10 kg. Kirjattavaa priority matkatavaraa sinulla voi olla lippuun merkityn lisäksi yksi laukku. Yhden kirjattavan matkatavaran enimmäispaino on 23 kg.

...popped up after online check in at London. Seems that information concerning the hand luggage limits is misleading and not much has changed, a false alarm therefore, hopefully. My bin space hogging thus continues :p!

By all means :D

I am also ready to soften my approach to exclude elites from such rules and I can understand your pain with checked luggage and frequent short transits between short hauls.

I still wish, however, that this rule will be enforced with the grey masses hauling their personal cargo loads into the tubes!

There is still the grey area. Luggage is luggage and clearly specified. But what is the "small handbag" you are allowed to bring with you in addition?

http://www.finnair.com/INT/GB/information-services/baggage/carry-on-baggage
"In addition to the carry-on baggage, passengers may take on board a small handbag, a small camera or binoculars, baby food, reading material, an overcoat, and a necessary mobility aid (such as a cane or elbow crutches)."

BA is very clear on this:
http://www.britishairways.com/travel/bagcabin/public/en_fi

"You are allowed one piece of hand baggage plus a laptop or handbag."
"Your main piece of hand baggage is up to the dimensions..."
"Your laptop or handbag is up to the dimensions..."

With BA I can fly at ease knowing that my carryings comply with the rules. With some other airlines I sometimes do not really know. Just hope for the best.