Travel with Children - Kid/age cutoff in F on DL...

Sat next to/in front of/behind enough kids in F to make me wonder what the hell was the point of being upgraded, with the screaming, kicking, jostling and whining.

Doesn't DL have a age cutoff for F (ie, nothing below 10, or 11?)...

If I wanted to travel surrounded by rugrats, I'd still be flying SW.

I won't even get into the incredibly obnoxious teenagers in the two seats across the way... They actually said "yo, get back there" to people boarding...

this should be in the dl or another forum....i will alert a mod to consider moving this....please don't repost....

Sat next to/in front of/behind enough kids in F to make me wonder what the hell was the point of being upgraded, with the screaming, kicking, jostling and whining.

Doesn't DL have a age cutoff for F (ie, nothing below 10, or 11?)...

If I wanted to travel surrounded by rugrats, I'd still be flying SW.

I won't even get into the incredibly obnoxious teenagers in the two seats across the way... They actually said "yo, get back there" to people boarding...

Maybe the kids were on a paid ticket and don't enjoy sitting next to cranky old people?

what the hell was the point of being upgraded, with the screaming, kicking, jostling and whining.
The parents, the kids, the crew, or you?

Sat next to/in front of/behind enough kids in F to make me wonder what the hell was the point of being upgraded, with the screaming, kicking, jostling and whining.

Doesn't DL have a age cutoff for F (ie, nothing below 10, or 11?)...

If I wanted to travel surrounded by rugrats, I'd still be flying SW.

I won't even get into the incredibly obnoxious teenagers in the two seats across the way... They actually said "yo, get back there" to people boarding...
Maybe the kids travelling on paid F don't want to sit next to the elderly freeloader UG's !

The customer is always right, so you certainly should have asked to be reassigned to Y if it didn't look the way you wanted it.

Maybe the kids travelling on paid F don't want to sit next to the elderly freeloader UG's !

The customer is always right, so you certainly should have asked to be reassigned to Y if it didn't look the way you wanted it.

I've only got a little over 600,000 miles in the seat on Delta, but does any airline have a age limit? Some time on CO, and AA but not aware of any differences. If you pay you can fly any class including F.

Delta has no age restriction on First class. The main problem I have is when there is an infant in first and the infant is flying as a lapheld infant for NO CHARGE and I am on a paid F ticket (I had that happen this summer when I was paying to be up front DTW/SFO, mainly because I knew it was a hard upgrade and I wanted to sleep and even my Bose headphones didn't help for almost an hour). Luckilly on that trip I wasn't driving when I laned and they had plenty of free vodka on board to help knock me out:)

If the kids were out of their seats running around I would have complained to the FA.

I pay for my tickets and if I want to bring my child or infant along in F, I can. Why does anyone have a problem with this stuff? It is so pathetic. Like the other guy said, if it bothers you so much, charter a plane.

Delta has no age restriction on First class. The main problem I have is when there is an infant in first and the infant is flying as a lapheld infant for NO CHARGE and I am on a paid F ticket (I had that happen this summer when I was paying to be up front DTW/SFO, mainly because I knew it was a hard upgrade and I wanted to sleep and even my Bose headphones didn't help for almost an hour). Luckilly on that trip I wasn't driving when I laned and they had plenty of free vodka on board to help knock me out:)

If the kids were out of their seats running around I would have complained to the FA.A couple of thoughts:

1. If you were a "lap adult" then it would be appropriate for you to fly F for NO CHARGE (I'm just repeating your use of all caps).

2. Since the lap infant was a lap infant, I'm sure this is one possible explanation why it wasn't running around...

Sat next to/in front of/behind enough kids in F to make me wonder what the hell was the point of being upgraded, with the screaming, kicking, jostling and whining.

Doesn't DL have a age cutoff for F (ie, nothing below 10, or 11?)...

If I wanted to travel surrounded by rugrats, I'd still be flying SW.

I won't even get into the incredibly obnoxious teenagers in the two seats across the way... They actually said "yo, get back there" to people boarding...
Next time, if a few young people are really ruining your freebie that much, you might consider flying private...

I've only got a little over 600,000 miles in the seat on Delta, but does any airline have a age limit? Some time on CO, and AA but not aware of any differences. If you pay you can fly any class including F.

Malaysia Airlines bans infants from its long-haul first class, and I have heard that both BA and VA are considering some flights kid-free in the premium classes...

I pay for my tickets and if I want to bring my child or infant along in F, I can. Why does anyone have a problem with this stuff? It is so pathetic. Like the other guy said, if it bothers you so much, charter a plane.

On my last flight in F (paid) there were three kids, all of whom made zero ruckus the entire flight.

There was, however, a male in his 50's who was drinking way too much, talking loudly the entire flight (using a lot of vulgar language), and acting abusively toward the f/a's.

From this experience, should we perhaps conclude that all adults need to be banned from traveling in the FC cabin?

I pay for my tickets and if I want to bring my child or infant along in F, I can. Why does anyone have a problem with this stuff? It is so pathetic. Like the other guy said, if it bothers you so much, charter a plane.

+1

I was on a flight recently where there was an "infant in arms" in F who had to be almost 2 years old (and looked older) with her slightly older sister along with either their mother or nanny. The younger one was a complete and total brat. She screamed, yelled and cried the entire time while fighting with her sister. She was even screaming at her sister while we were about to land because her sister wouldn't let her unbuckle her seat belt. The little brat was standing up in front of her sisters seat while this was going on. Mom/nanny didn't do anything to discipline or even try to stop the little hellion.

Here you are:


http://www.netjets.com/


It might cost you a bit more than your upgraded fare, but you can fly by yourself so no one bothers you.



Sat next to/in front of/behind enough kids in F to make me wonder what the hell was the point of being upgraded, with the screaming, kicking, jostling and whining.

Doesn't DL have a age cutoff for F (ie, nothing below 10, or 11?)...

If I wanted to travel surrounded by rugrats, I'd still be flying SW.

I won't even get into the incredibly obnoxious teenagers in the two seats across the way... They actually said "yo, get back there" to people boarding...

Delta has no age restriction on First class. The main problem I have is when there is an infant in first and the infant is flying as a lapheld infant for NO CHARGE and I am on a paid F ticket (I had that happen this summer when I was paying to be up front DTW/SFO, mainly because I knew it was a hard upgrade and I wanted to sleep and even my Bose headphones didn't help for almost an hour). Luckilly on that trip I wasn't driving when I laned and they had plenty of free vodka on board to help knock me out:)

If the kids were out of their seats running around I would have complained to the FA.

Why do you have a problem with this? They're not taking up a seat and their parent(s) are in F either because they paid or were UGed just like anyone else. And if the infant is on an international routing he paid even though he's not taking up a seat. Over Thanksgiving I paid for 3 upgradeable M fares on a TPAC plus an infant J ticket which was $900 even though he didn't take up a seat. No way DL is going to sacrifice that revenue, nor should they just because some people are bothered by children.

I can agree though that there are many parents who don't know how to keep their kids under control and end up being inconsiderate to others. That's the parents' fault, not the kids'.

Sat next to/in front of/behind enough kids in F to make me wonder what the hell was the point of being upgraded, with the screaming, kicking, jostling and whining.

Doesn't DL have a age cutoff for F (ie, nothing below 10, or 11?)...

You're obviously not a very frequent flyer, or you'd know that the purpose of upgrading is to get a bigger seat, more legroom and free booze. If you were a frequent flyer, you'd also be aware that no domestic airline bans kids from F.

Bad behavior has no age limits.

And there's very little about domestic F (on any airline) that is really first class. It's basically upgrade class.

Bad behavior has no age limits.

And there's very little about domestic F (on any airline) that is really first class. It's basically upgrade class.

+1^

I was on a flight recently where there was an "infant in arms" in F who had to be almost 2 years old (and looked older) with her slightly older sister along with either their mother or nanny. The younger one was a complete and total brat. She screamed, yelled and cried the entire time while fighting with her sister. She was even screaming at her sister while we were about to land because her sister wouldn't let her unbuckle her seat belt. The little brat was standing up in front of her sisters seat while this was going on. Mom/nanny didn't do anything to discipline or even try to stop the little hellion.

A few months ago, I was on a flight with the usual full FC cabin. A family of four were traveling including two young children who got in their seats and promptly fell asleep for the whole flight.

Across the aisle from me, though, was a couple arguing and talking so loudly virtually the entire flight that I was unable to get any work done or even read my book. At one point the f/a asked them to keep their voices down and they were very unfriendly toward her.

So what does this tell us? That kids should be allowed in FC and adults banned?

A few months ago, I was on a flight with the usual full FC cabin. A family of four were traveling including two young children who got in their seats and promptly fell asleep for the whole flight.

Across the aisle from me, though, was a couple arguing and talking so loudly virtually the entire flight that I was unable to get any work done or even read my book. At one point the f/a asked them to keep their voices down and they were very unfriendly toward her.

So what does this tell us? That kids should be allowed in FC and adults banned?

I don't have a problem telling adults to shut the .... up.

Ahhh, the root cause is probably the old truism...

"just because you're old enough to have sex doesn't mean you're mature enough to be a parent"

I grow repeatedly tired of immature parents who seem to have no knowledge of who is actually in charge of their relationships with their offspring.

I don't have a problem telling adults to shut the .... up.

I see.

Ironically, though, a firm but polite "please be quiet" aimed at some young people or their parents is probably going to be a lot more effective than what you are suggesting, if the adult in question is an angry drunk.

Unless, of course, you are psyched about getting punched in the face...

Seriously, though, in my over 40 years of air travel around the world I have seen it all (I was once sitting next to a drunk so angry that he he threatened the pilot's life when he came out to tell him to stop drinking and being abusive).

There are disruptive people of all ages. Yes, screaming babies can be very annoying, but most of them cry themselves to sleep.

I find the most disrputive passengers I have ever encountered are the angry adults.

Ahhh, the root cause is probably the old truism...

"just because you're old enough to have sex doesn't mean you're mature enough to be a parent"

I grow repeatedly tired of immature parents who seem to have no knowledge of who is actually in charge of their relationships with their offspring.
While I certainly agree that it helps to be a mature parent, there is, unfortunately, only a very small correlation between age and maturity.

I have encountered very mature young parents and very immature older parents...

immature parents who seem to have no knowledge of who is actually in charge

That. The one and only problem with children on a plane, either in F/J or in Y, are, of course, parents. This has been discussed ad nauseam on Delta and other boards ... Always ends the same way.

No, there is no age cut off on DL, no should there be one. Just as there is no ban of irresponsible and immature parents and adult travelers, would love to see it but it ain't in the cards, is it?

Happy holidays and pleasant travels to all!

My 3 boys have been flying in F since they were toddlers. My oldest flew as a UM many time in F starting when he was 8. They all knew that they had to behave and respect the passengers around them, or they would not have the pleasure of sitting up front. I 'banned' my middle son for about 2 years from flying in F because he was disruptive to others, and talking way too much to the people around him who were polite enough, but you could tell they would rather have silence.

Again, age should not be a requirement, but behavior should be

So what does this tell us? That kids should be allowed in FC and adults banned?

I think this thread tell us what we already know, or at least should know....



Sometimes adults are easy to travel with, sometimes not.


Sometimes children are easy to travel with, sometimes not.


Always travel with good noise-canceling headphones and eyeshades. They can be your best friends when flying.

As Mrs know_knows is Euro, we cart the kids (7 and 9) to the motherland twice a year at least. By planning way ahead and taking the low cost flights I can manage to get all three in business on these flights with miles, which is good because the kids sleep, Mrs know_knows sleeps and I get to drink and watch movies in peace;-)

Last flight as we were all settling in and passengers were coming by, a couple of businessmen started, quite loudly, complaining to each other about kids getting upgraded ahead of them and how much of a waste it is since kids are always trouble on flights for people and so on. Now, my kids probably clock more flight time than most adults, so they know how to behave on a plane and we do not put up with any trouble from them. Anyhow they should know there are few international upgrades, especially on other airlines' metal.

I kept my mouth shut because what is the point of arguing, but wondered if this is how everyone who flies often sees kids? I usually don't pay much attention to kids on planes as I am use to bringing mine, but I guess I have been lucky in never having any more issues than the babies that cry on pressure change (which is totally normal - hell it sometimes bothers me...). Are kids in business generally seen as bad form?

I think this thread tell us what we already know, or at least should know....



Sometimes adults are easy to travel with, sometimes not.


Sometimes children are easy to travel with, sometimes not.


Always travel with good noise-canceling headphones and eyeshades. They can be your best friends when flying.
Very wise and well put.

My only point was that every time there is a disruptive passenger who happens to be a child, children as a group are blamed.

I'm just curious why this is never the case when the disruptive passenger is an adult...

Probably because the disruptive passengers are typically ALSO the complainers... ;-)

Very wise and well put.

My only point was that every time there is a disruptive passenger who happens to be a child, children as a group are blamed.

I'm just curious why this is never the case when the disruptive passenger is an adult...

Probably because the disruptive passengers are typically ALSO the complainers... ;-)

Ha ha...good point.

Why do you have a problem with this? They're not taking up a seat and their parent(s) are in F either because they paid or were UGed just like anyone else. And if the infant is on an international routing he paid even though he's not taking up a seat. Over Thanksgiving I paid for 3 upgradeable M fares on a TPAC plus an infant J ticket which was $900 even though he didn't take up a seat. No way DL is going to sacrifice that revenue, nor should they just because some people are bothered by children.

I can agree though that there are many parents who don't know how to keep their kids under control and end up being inconsiderate to others. That's the parents' fault, not the kids'.

Because I am paying a premium to be up in F to relax if it's a paid F ticket. The infant is paying nothing. Infants a lot of times are loud (such as the case when I flew DTW/SFO on a paid ticket) and no fault of either the infant or the parent. Not really fair that the infant was crying so loud during part of the flight I couldn't even sleep with my Bose headphones on when the infant was flying for FREE. At least with a kid riding up front, chances are the parents paid for the ticket with either money or miles and if the kid is acting up you can complain to the FA.

What iritates me is that if I fly with a pet I have to PAY to bring the pet on board even though it isn't taking up a seat, there is a limit of 2 pets in the First class cabin and I also have to count the pet as a carryon.

Why do you have a problem with this? They're not taking up a seat and their parent(s) are in F either because they paid or were UGed just like anyone else. And if the infant is on an international routing he paid even though he's not taking up a seat. Over Thanksgiving I paid for 3 upgradeable M fares on a TPAC plus an infant J ticket which was $900 even though he didn't take up a seat. No way DL is going to sacrifice that revenue, nor should they just because some people are bothered by children.

I can agree though that there are many parents who don't know how to keep their kids under control and end up being inconsiderate to others. That's the parents' fault, not the kids'.

The age of an F/J passenger is not the problem per se: it's the behavior of the person, whether that person is 1 day old, 1 year old, 1 decade old, or 1 century old. (In fairness, the same is true for any passenger, whether they are in Y, F, J, or Shena.) A boorish, 45-year-old lout who is as drunk as a skunk is as bad, if not worse than, the 2-year-old who is running around raising hell and the parents ignoring it. The lout or the 2-year-old could be seated in 2B or 42B and it would not matter.

The solution lies with enforcing rules of common courtesy and behavior, and not making oneself into a nuisance -- not an arbitrary age cutoff.

While the topic of this thread started from an experience on a Delta Air Lines flight, this is really a more germane topic for the new home of this thread, which is now the Travel with Children forum.

Regards,

Canarsie
Co-Moderator, Delta SkyMiles forum

Very wise and well put.

My only point was that every time there is a disruptive passenger who happens to be a child, children as a group are blamed.

I'm just curious why this is never the case when the disruptive passenger is an adult...

That's because a far higher percentange of children are badly behaved then adults on an airplane.

The fact is that 95% of the people on an airplane and 99.5% in F are adults, so you will see adults misbehave FAR more often.

However when there are kids in F they tend to be with parents who spoil them and don't take it upon themselves to discipline the children. Just like most of the kids in the back of the plane, and everywhere else.

So your kids behave well, so you're a decent or even good parent, you're sadly the exception to the rule. Most parents do whatever causes them the least short term work.

And while I understand the need to take infants on planes sometimes, it SUCKS for everyone and is pretty close to child abuse. So people that regularly take infants on board are by definition narcissists of the first order. Stay home until they are old enough to say "Mommy my ears hurt" unless there is an emergency. And if they start screaming get up and go somewhere that will minimize the agony to your fellow passengers, we did nothing to deserve having to listen to 120db of tortured baby screams...

--All the single people in the world, and most of the non single ones too :D

PS Thank you for being good parents and having well disciplined kids.

I pay for my tickets and if I want to bring my child or infant along in F, I can. Why does anyone have a problem with this stuff? It is so pathetic. Like the other guy said, if it bothers you so much, charter a plane.

As long as the kids behave I have no problem with it. And I have the same problems with adults that don't behave in First (or Y for that matter).

If I am paying to be up front, as long as I can relax and it's peaceful I realy don't care who is up front. When you can't sleep due to disruptive passengers when you have bose headphones on, you have a right to be upset (regardless of it's an infant or a 60 year old drunk or a 20-something couple talking realy loud).

While the topic of this thread started from an experience on a Delta Air Lines flight, this is really a more germane topic for the new home of this thread, which is now the Travel with Children forum.

Regards,

Canarsie
Co-Moderator, Delta SkyMiles forum
Yes, thanks. There haven't been enough threads here discussing children in premium classes. :rolleyes:

That's because a far higher percentange of children are badly behaved then adults on an airplane....However when there are kids in F they tend to be with parents who spoil them and don't take it upon themselves to discipline the children.
Really? Anecdotal does not equal empirical.


And while I understand the need to take infants on planes sometimes, it SUCKS for everyone and is pretty close to child abuse. So people that regularly take infants on board are by definition narcissists of the first order.
Hardly. Come back and post after you have children. Your tune will change.

Yes, thanks. There haven't been enough threads here discussing children in premium classes. :rolleyes:


Really? Anecdotal does not equal empirical.



Hardly. Come back and post after you have children. Your tune will change.
So let's get this straight:
You think that the average child is better behaved in public than the average adult, as measured by adult standards. AND you think that once the facts become inconvenient they change.

If you want to travel freely don't have kids or have a nanny until they become toddlers. Just like if you want to go out and party, or get a lot of sleep. Sorry but choices were made. The facts do not change because they no longer suit you, or me.

Babies end up in pain from the pressurization and they don't understand it and can't cope with it. To be clear I do not get angry at the infant on the plane for screaming, if I should get angry at the bad misbehaving baby, please correct my understanding.

If you take babies on planes for no good reason other than your convenience then you are the type of narcissistic rationalize-everything parent I'm referring to. Have you ever yelled at an educator for your child getting a bad grade? :rolleyes:

And seeing where this thread was moved to, I really don't wish to discuss this matter any farther.

I would never have wandered into this forum to discuss this topic.

Happy holidays...

Too bad there isn't a First World Problems forum on FT.

The world is full of people, many of whom will bug the crap out of you. Paying for an F seat or an expensive house won't guarantee a good neighbor. Relax and enjoy the miracle that you're flying, in speed and comfort that was pure fantasy not too many years ago!

My 3 boys have been flying in F since they were toddlers. My oldest flew as a UM many time in F starting when he was 8. They all knew that they had to behave and respect the passengers around them, or they would not have the pleasure of sitting up front. I 'banned' my middle son for about 2 years from flying in F because he was disruptive to others, and talking way too much to the people around him who were polite enough, but you could tell they would rather have silence.

Again, age should not be a requirement, but behavior should be

+1
My kids both flew INTL with me before they could hold themselves up for their passport photos. Now 8 & 6 years old, their in-flight behavior is a LOT better than a lot of DYKWIAs I have "enjoyed" flying aside. Good kids and good parents make for good flyers.

So let's get this straight:
You think that the average child is better behaved in public than the average adult, as measured by adult standards. AND you think that once the facts become inconvenient they change.

I never said any of this. I merely said you have provided only anecdotal evidence, which is not a fact.

If you want to travel freely don't have kids or have a nanny until they become toddlers. Just like if you want to go out and party, or get a lot of sleep. Sorry but choices were made. The facts do not change because they no longer suit you, or me.
So, the baby will have better "behavior" on a plane if accompanied by a nanny? Again, I'm not sure what you are trying to say, and again, you have provided no facts.

Babies end up in pain from the pressurization and they don't understand it and can't cope with it. To be clear I do not get angry at the infant on the plane for screaming, if I should get angry at the bad misbehaving baby, please correct my understanding.
I can't control your anger, but can point out a fact (at least one of us should). Babies that cry are not "misbehaving". And, babies cry plenty of other places other than planes, such as grocery stores, in the car, at the pediatrician's office, in their grandmother's arms, in a stroller, in their cribs, etc. Should they be banned from all those places, too? Are parents "narcissistic" because they even take babies out of the house?

If you take babies on planes for no good reason other than your convenience then you are the type of narcissistic rationalize-everything parent I'm referring to.
Sorry, this makes no sense. A child is a child is a child. I guess you are saying anyone who takes a child on a plane except for what you call a "good reason" (and it's unclear exactly what you might thing this is) is "narcissistic".

Have you ever yelled at an educator for your child getting a bad grade? :rolleyes:

What does this have to do with babies on planes? Of course I haven't. No rational or responsible person would. I don't yell at anyone. I am not sure where all this is coming from.

While the topic of this thread started from an experience on a Delta Air Lines flight, this is really a more germane topic for the new home of this thread, which is now the Travel with Children forum.

Regards,

Canarsie
Co-Moderator, Delta SkyMiles forum

This thread has seen more punts than a UF-Auburn game. Let's see where it lands next.

If I am paying to be up front, as long as I can relax and it's peaceful I realy don't care who is up front. When you can't sleep due to disruptive passengers when you have bose headphones on, you have a right to be upset (regardless of it's an infant or a 60 year old drunk or a 20-something couple talking realy loud).

That word "right" sure opens a can of worms. What happens, for example, when you are on a redeye trying to sleep and a couple other pax who also paid for F want to talk. Do they have right to do so even if it interrupts your right to sleep?

Think I understand what you are saying but fact is, the tube has 100+ pax who each feel they have certain rights. Don't know what kind of Bose headphones you have but my QC-15's are pretty good at drowning out much of the noise I choose not to hear. Sure, sometimes they will not eliminate all the noise from a wailing infant (even from six rows away) but I take solace that I won't have to hear it after maybe a few hours while the parents have to hear it all the time. :D

If you take babies on planes for no good reason other than your convenience then you are the type of narcissistic rationalize-everything parent I'm referring to. Have you ever yelled at an educator for your child getting a bad grade? :rolleyes:

Flying with your children is narcissistic?

Over the years I have seen some really off the wall posts on FT, and this one has to rank somewhere near the top.

Let's just say none of you get a :-: for comprehension today :)

If you want to actually discuss this PM me, as I said I'm not continuing to argue about this topic here. But please actually read what I wrote and attempt to comprehend it before doing so, kthx.

...when there are kids in F they tend to be with parents who spoil them and don't take it upon themselves to discipline the children. Just like most of the kids in the back of the plane, and everywhere else.

So your kids behave well, so you're a decent or even good parent, you're sadly the exception to the rule. Most parents do whatever causes them the least short term work.

The preceding is absolutely, unequivocally untrue.

And while I understand the need to take infants on planes sometimes, it SUCKS for everyone and is pretty close to child abuse. So people that regularly take infants on board are by definition narcissists of the first order.

What a bizarre thing to say. I would prefer to sit next to any infant, operating at any decibel level, over someone who thinks these sorts of things.

In before the lock. :p

This thread has seen more punts than a UF-Auburn game. Let's see where it lands next.

great post, I have to remember this one on similar threads ^

That word "right" sure opens a can of worms. What happens, for example, when you are on a redeye trying to sleep and a couple other pax who also paid for F want to talk. Do they have right to do so even if it interrupts your right to sleep?

Think I understand what you are saying but fact is, the tube has 100+ pax who each feel they have certain rights. Don't know what kind of Bose headphones you have but my QC-15's are pretty good at drowning out much of the noise I choose not to hear. Sure, sometimes they will not eliminate all the noise from a wailing infant (even from six rows away) but I take solace that I won't have to hear it after maybe a few hours while the parents have to hear it all the time. :D

Couple things with that scenario. The two people having the conversation are PAYING for the seat, unlike the infant. When I was on the DTW/SFO flight in June, I couldn't sleep even with the QC Headphones on (which are the same as yours). If it's two people talking, I won't have the risk of sitting next to them obviously and the QC's should block the noise out. If they are talking at such a loud level I can hear them several rows away with the QC's on, I won't hesitate to ask them to please be a little more considerate or ask the FA to ask them. Hard to tell an infant to keep it down on a flight:)

Bad behavior has no age limits.

And there's very little about domestic F (on any airline) that is really first class. It's basically upgrade class.

After reading the first page... javabytes has successfully determined the outcome of this discussion. End thread!

The preceding is absolutely, unequivocally untrue.



What a bizarre thing to say. I would prefer to sit next to any infant, operating at any decibel level, over someone who thinks these sorts of things.

In before the lock. :p

Agree 100% Wow.....Mother thinks flying with an infant is child abuse and that it is narcism to travel with children? That is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard. How about parents that are divorced and live in separate states? Or ones that have sick children and need to fly to a specialist? Sometimes, there are reasons for things and we all need to take our heads out of our bums and realize the world doesn't revolve around us. Get off the high horse and deal with things without complaining for one day! Get a grip, people (rant over).

Seriously. You people have spent an entire page putting words in my mouth and not even trying to read and comprehend what it was I wrote when this thread was in a different forum.

Now it's basically ad hominem attacks against me for things I didn't say.

This thread should have died long ago...

And while I understand the need to take infants on planes sometimes, it SUCKS for everyone and is pretty close to child abuse. So people that regularly take infants on board are by definition narcissists of the first order. Stay home until they are old enough to say "Mommy my ears hurt" unless there is an emergency. And if they start screaming get up and go somewhere that will minimize the agony to your fellow passengers, we did nothing to deserve having to listen to 120db of tortured baby screams...Come out of your cocoon and learn what child abuse really is before you start using that term to describe travel by air. Look around the world and you'll see kids beaten, raped, starved, denied basic care: that's child abuse.

The statement that taking an infant on a plane "is pretty close to child abuse" is so wrong and so offensive that you owe an apology to every parent who has ever flown with a child. The rest of the drivel you wrote just adds to offensiveness; people who need to travel with a child, even on a regular basis, are people going about the business of their lives and dealing with a thousand and one issues of which you have no knowledge at all, getting on with one's life does not make one a "narcissist[s] of the first order" even if you might occasionally have to listen to a crying baby.

Seriously. You people have spent an entire page putting words in my mouth and not even trying to read and comprehend what it was I wrote when this thread was in a different forum.

Now it's basically ad hominem attacks against me for things I didn't say.There's nothing wrong with the reading comprehension skills of those responding to you, or are you suggesting that you didn't write the posts appearing here under your name?

I think we can read and comprehend just fine. While you have a right to your opinion, if you judge people, expect them to respond. Also others have jumped in so it's not necessarily what YOU said...

Just to clarify some misinformation that has popped up.

I don't believe that there is any airline which restricts children from any class of service. Someone did post here with a rumour that Malaysian did but this was false.

It IS true that the airlines have age restrictions for their own employees' children. I flew with two airlines and it was high, 8 and 10 years old to sit up there. So that baby crying belongs to a "real" passenger.

Babies end up in pain from the pressurization and they don't understand it and can't cope with it.

This is a common myth. I've been flying with mine since each was 4 months old and they never had any ear problems. I also never forced them to suck on anything (usually keeping them safetly strapped into their car seats and often asleep). Babies often cryin when the a/c kicks in after take-off. As a Flight Attendant, I rarely saw babies with ear problems. Only if they're flying with an ear infection are they bothered (and that can be painful!). Healthy ears, in adults or children, can handle pressurization changes.

Seriously. You people have spent an entire page putting words in my mouth and not even trying to read and comprehend what it was I wrote when this thread was in a different forum.

Now it's basically ad hominem attacks against me for things I didn't say.


Really? You didn't say:

And while I understand the need to take infants on planes sometimes, it SUCKS for everyone and is pretty close to child abuse. So people that regularly take infants on board are by definition narcissists of the first order. Stay home until they are old enough to say "Mommy my ears hurt" unless there is an emergency. And if they start screaming get up and go somewhere that will minimize the agony to your fellow passengers, we did nothing to deserve having to listen to 120db of tortured baby screams...


So you are saying that parents who travel with infants should not take umbrage at being painted with the broad brush of being virtual child abusers and narcissists? Kind of tough to do.

Being a 1K means that we usually get upgraded, even when reservations indicate lap children (9-month old twins). The babies have been flying since they were 4 months old, including 10 plus hour flights, and are quite accustomed to it. I've had fellow passengers come up to me after the flight, surprised at the fact that they didn't make any noise. Still, when sans children, I am one of those business travelers in a suit in FC with my laptop ready to go (and would appreciate infants a few rows behind, as opposed to next to me). Depending on the flight, we usually ask two fellow flyers sitting in opposing aisle seats in Economy Plus to please trade seats with us in First Class.