Budget Travel - More budget travel - relevance to loyalty plan?

I'm just wondering how much relevance are they to your more normal spending patterns. No work related travel at all. Just a average Joe here who goes overseas maybe 2x a year and a see a no. of different cities (with his own money) which is more often most of my work colleagues. Uni degree, guess they call them professionals working in a desk in a open planned office in a typical company or government office. :)

We get 4 weeks of annual leave per year plus statutory holidays.

For us here, we just purchase things that we may need that is a good price and if it happens we get points, it is a bonus but we don't purposely pay more for it just to get the points. The exception is credit card as that applies to all spending.

More in the past with the absence of LCC I've pretty much just collected my mileage up and in a couple of years got a international reward flight and some interconnecting domestic flights for the international trips.

Now:
There are Aegean or Asiana which can get you to gold more easily than the traditional carriers. I am from NZ. So that is about 1.5 trips to Asia and back or 1.0 trips to the USA and back. But then again, you need to hunt for the specials with the larger carriers while the LCC are available pretty much anytime and thru sales they are even cheaper. So I am sort of thinking if I had gold, that would be handy occasionally but then again, if a gold member does purchase a LCC fare you cannot use the privileges anyway because the departure flight must be a Star Alliance or equiv. programme.

Like a fare NZ to ASIA is about $700US for a cheap fare (anytime LCC or sales time large carriers). Doesn't get points. One that gets points is like $1400US. Prem econ is maybe $3,000US. Business might be $4,000US. That's quite substantial. I gather one could easily get a spa, massage, shower, go into a more proper restaurant for that money difference.

Next comes hotels. There is just no way I am going to get all the nights and build status up. I travel alone. A typical hotel (standard deluxe room) say in Singapore might be $300US like a Marriott. For the year, 20 night ($6,000US) leisure travel invoice isn't that easy to accept. So I am sort of thinking, if I had a blue card, that joined online for free, I may get the free newspaper and the free internet, maybe late check out, that's about it. If one were to see the hotels on offer even if you restrict yourself to 5 star hotels on Hotels.com et al., if you compare hotels like the Marriott group and the Hilton group to other 5 star hotels on offer, there is quite a premium you need to pay.

Like to hear your thoughts :)

Yes, for the solo traveler who can't earn points through business travel paid for by an expense account, hotel loyalty plans are of no value. You do better to stay at hostels, high quality yet inexpensive B&Bs where they exist (in America B&Bs are high priced but I'll give the example of Goreme, Turkey "cave hotels" as cheap yet great quality stays), or else sometimes you can Priceline it.

Can't speak to your airlines but I feel that on my airline (Northwest and now Delta) I have received insanely good value for money in exchange for my loyalty. The most value I have received is that twice I have been able to purchase round trip Business tickets MSY-JNB with miles, which would be a prohibitive expense to me if I had to buy the tickets. My ticket in 2007 was priced at $8,400 if I'd paid in dollars rather than miles, and my ticket for my upcoming trip was priced at around $7,000, if I'd paid in dollars rather than miles. Plus I've bought many, many other trips with miles, both for solo trips and for trips with my husband. So it is just one data point but for me I would have to say that airline loyalty miles/points have been well worth it. Whether the program will continue to be of the same value...I don't know. But it has been great value in the past, no doubt about it.

Hotels, though, nope. I don't see the point to being loyal to a hotel program. Most of the time if you are a serious LEISURE traveler with a serious hobby or reason for traveling, you are going to want to stay where the particular experience is. For my sport, birding, it's particularly specialized. There is only one "Home of the Snowcap," and Hilton don't own it. There is only one Red-Fronted Macaw Lodge, and it ain't a Holiday Inn...you get the picture. If you are a leisure travel who has a serious hobby that you chase, you canNOT get tied to a hotel chain because it just isn't going to work like that.

And if you're not serious, if you're just a leisure traveler of the "let's hit Paris and do some shopping," well, that's why they have Priceline. I have to admit, they treated me right on my last visit.

Yeah .. I have an interest in photography and stay in rural areas, and do some wildlife and landscape/nature. The hotels are just not gonna be there, even if I could afford them. But $300 is pretty expensive for leisure travel per night.

I am not sure about Europe but certainly I know North America is pretty lucky and unique in terms of flights. You guys have access to discounted seats that still earn points. Where I am in Australia/New Zealand and in Asia that doesn't happen. There are NIL points for discounted fares. The fares we tend to get points are those typical economy fares during the Christmas periods. Or perhaps discounted by 10-20% if we travel anytime else in the year.

I guess it might be possible if I were in the USA and I took some discounted flights they may earn points though. What is a typical class code for these flights like from United Airlines? I could look that up.

So in a way for us. Because the discounted tickets with the large carriers don't earn points it makes the attraction of lower cost carriers somewhat feasible. I think for the leisure traveler for us, maybe for those who travel in peak times with children/family they could look at the big carriers and earn points. Because lower cost carriers where I am tend to blacklist busy dates or charge them pretty much the same as large carriers or even more the closer you get to departure date.

Yes, for the solo traveler who can't earn points through business travel paid for by an expense account, hotel loyalty plans are of no value. You do better to stay at hostels, high quality yet inexpensive B&Bs where they exist (in America B&Bs are high priced but I'll give the example of Goreme, Turkey "cave hotels" as cheap yet great quality stays), or else sometimes you can Priceline it.

I used to agree fully with your views on hotel loyalty programs. As a budget traveler at my own expense, I rarely stay at any of the chains that participate in those. However, there are some very nice hotel based credit card and other offers out there in recent months and currently, and some make sense to me. If they're willing to give me all those points, I might as well stay in their properties for free from time to time, especially when in some larger cities where prices, even for hostels, tend to be higher than I'd like. For example, I got the Choice Visa, which will bring 40,000 points, and signed up for the Radisson 50,000 point award offer. I'll stay in some places I wouldn't consider otherwise, but almost free is even better than cheap.

having just moved to New Zealand I was pretty bummed out how expensive air travel and hotel travel is, and you don't even earn points on the base / lowest fares.

however a month into my stay I was lucky enough to book some fantastic deals that will allow me to explore NZ... was able to use a combination of award travel from US based credit card offers for a trip to the US when it made sense, but booked LLC for a trip to Asia, where even the timings not to mention the amount of miles required just didn't glue at all... so its a healthy balance.

but like the OP, as a solo leisure traveler with no business expense account, I do what I need to do to minimize spending and optimize the travel opportunities. Loyalty is typically to the lowest or close to lowest bidder.

Yes, for the solo traveler who can't earn points through business travel paid for by an expense account, hotel loyalty plans are of no value.

I'm a solo traveler (formerly a backpacker) and have been using hotel programs the last few years. My Priority Club points have just paid for 10 nights at the London Olympics (value $700 a night). I just did 10 nights in Shanghai with Hyatt points built up on sub-$100 weekend stays throughout the U.S., mostly at places I was going anyway (DCA, BOS). Hard for me to agree with you that these programs have "no value". I've got exceptional value from my points.

Priority Club frequently has 2 for 1 specials in Europe that can bring rates down to $40 a night in the winter. I've used those quite a bit in the U.K. and Germany. These properties are convenient for locations I'm traveling to.

I'm just wondering how much relevance are they to your more normal spending patterns. No work related travel at all.

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But then again, you need to hunt for the specials with the larger carriers while the LCC are available pretty much anytime and thru sales they are even cheaper.

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Next comes hotels. There is just no way I am going to get all the nights and build status up. I travel alone. A typical hotel (standard deluxe room) say in Singapore might be $300US like a Marriott. For the year, 20 night ($6,000US) leisure travel invoice isn't that easy to accept.

My Priority Club points have just paid for 10 nights at the London Olympics (value $700 a night). I just did 10 nights in Shanghai with Hyatt points built up on sub-$100 weekend stays throughout the U.S., mostly at places I was going anyway (DCA, BOS). Hard for me to agree with you that these programs have "no value". I've got exceptional value from my points.

Priority Club frequently has 2 for 1 specials in Europe that can bring rates down to $40 a night in the winter. I've used those quite a bit in the U.K. and Germany. These properties are convenient for locations I'm traveling to.

Thanks for bumping the thread tom911, I've been meaning to chime in :)

But while I congratulate you on scoring the LON stay (and wonder why they didn't raise the points sky high or black out the dates), the way hotel points are structured I don't feel it's very good value. Unlike airlines that base points on miles flown instead of fare paid, with hotels you get fewer points for stays that cost less.

Especially in this day of Priceline, Travelocity hidden hotel deals and others it's much cheaper to find accommodation with non chain hotels - and this would actually INCLUDE chain hotels via Priceline when they do not earn points.

Case in point: had a forced layover at YVR, and while the Holiday Inn and Holiday Inn Express only cost about $90 per night (plus tax) it would have cost 25K points to stay at either :eek:

Priceline didn't give me the price I wanted, so ended up using Travelocity hidden hotels, and voila, $58.63 with taxes at Holiday Inn and their shuttle to the airport. Actually got in after midnight when shuttle was no longer running and they reimbursed me for the $15 cab fare ^

And because fares are so expensive over the holidays used points to fly, even though normally US / Canada travel is the worst use of miles.

Changed my return trip (free of charge thanks to Platinum status, saving about $100) to a forced overnight at YYC, because I knew that I could take advantage of 5K Point Break at Calgary Holiday Inn (and NOT get up at 3 a.m. for 6 a.m. int'l flight, the only return available when I booked) :)

Of course I earned all those points when travel was part of my work, now I just use them and look for cheap hotels, use points when it makes sense, and even stay in the odd hostel or two :p

Airlines are a mixed bag, and for now feel that status is worth it even if I don't check bags (no baggage fee for elites). I only fly when a fare pops up that I'm willing to pay - this would be any number of destinations on my list.

Last one was $300 SEA-PEK fare ($405.20 a/i) with a positioning flight costing another $240 a/i, and the miles I earned were used for PEK-CGK :D

Next trip: $799 DFW-BKK ($933 a/i), and my *A Gold will get me access to exit row seats and lounge access at IAD and NRT (as well as BKK, but I try not to drink alcohol at 6 a.m. ;) )

Will I requalify for CO Platinum in 2012? Likely not, unless there are some amazing deals like PEK this year, but will shoot for Gold (and *A Gold).

OTOH, now that Spirit serves DFW may give them a shot, most likely for positioning flights to cheap int'l fares now that I've seen most of US and Canada (as well as visits to all Centroamerica countries). I did cross of Peru off my list on a (most likely) mistake fare on LAN / AA ($312 a/i), so I am willing to stray from my alliance if the price is right. But for now no LCCs to Asia or Latin America and only limited ones to Europe.

BTW, wasn't it you tom911, who posted about same day turns on Spirit?

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BTW, wasn't it you tom911, who posted about same day turns on Spirit?

Not me. I've never set foot on them. Been either an AA or UA flyer for 20 years now.

I think the issue might be where I am located - NZL.

I am not even with my own country airline anymore because it is too hard to get status. Silver *A needs maybe 3x return USA Asia trips. Gold needs double that. Maybe double again they have Gold Elite which might be equivalent to Platinum status. I guess if I with statusI could get better seats but for us it's impossible to get. Those are economy class per year.

So I am now with another *A carrier (Asiana) and they don't operate in my country. I could join SIA for eg .. but their Gold needs 50k per year, for a holiday traveller that's a big ask. If I happen to be overseas and I happen to fly with Asiana then I could get more of the perks.

If we travel from NZ to AU, it's only 3hr flight. If domestic it's generally no more than 1.5hrs, most of them are no more than 45mins. For us to clock 50k per year, it means going international for leisure. That's about 3x North Asia trips. As SE Asia for us just runs short.


For hotels. I don't head to the USA or EU often. EU is like 26hr solid flying or 18hr maybe to the USA. Also the cost as well. Where I head to, I just match up the accom with my flights. My flights are booked when I have annual leave. I dunno. When I just search Kuala Lumpur or Singapore on Hotels.com. Yeah maybe I avoid Holiday Inn, but the likes of Intercontinental is not bad but there are other cheaper non-chain hotels somewhat of a equivalent standard.

Isn't with the hotel programs you kinda need to stay for 20 night before you get 1 night for free usually? And regarding status, isn't that you need maybe 15-20 nights year just to get the bottom elite status? That's 3 weeks per year. Pretty solid given we only get 4 weeks annual leave. A lot of the places I head to is the smaller towns and rural areas ..... so all the brand name hotels are not there. I may just stay 5 nights in total per year in the big cities. Maybe 20 days in total per year. That's approx 3 weeks for international. 15 of those are probably in smaller cities/towns/rural.

With work commitments just cannot do 3 intl trips every year. I may do 2. What generally happen is that stay in a larger city for maybe 2 night then we move to the places that we have more specialised interests.

Isn't with the hotel programs you kinda need to stay for 20 night before you get 1 night for free usually?

That's where you have to watch out for bonuses and promotions. In past years both Hyatt and Priority Club have offered a free night for each two stays, and Hilton recently ran something offering a free night with four stays. If you can hotel hop in a big city, splitting your time between different properties, those free nights can build up pretty quickly. Also, the higher elite status you have with the chain, the faster you build up points and bonuses. Add in that some chains have their own credit cards. Priority Club offers up to 80,000 points for their credit card. That could cover three free nights at a Holiday Inn, two nights at an Intercontinental, or five nights at a Holiday Inn if you do cash and points ($60 and 15,000 points a night).

You pretty much need to check the hotel forums here to see who is running what promotion. That's where I found out about the 2 for 1 winter rates with Priority Club in Europe.

And regarding status, isn't that you need maybe 15-20 nights year just to get the bottom elite status?

Hyatt has two tiers which come with 5 stays and 25 stays. Free wifi comes with both. After 5 stays you get a 15% point bonus. At 25 stays that jumps to a 30% bonus.

Priority Club's lowest tier (gold) is 15 nights a year. You get pretty minimal perks at that level and 10% bonus on stays. At the next level (50 stays or 50,000 points) you get 50% bonus on stays. That's where I am right now.

At Hilton, 4 stays or 10 nights gets you 15% bonus miles.

On some of these you can qualify with either stays, nights or points. If you're looking at a hotel program you need to sort through what's accessible to you, what promos they have, and what kind of return you're going to get.

Last month out of curiosity I joined up with the Priority Club - main reason is that the points don't expire. I also joined Accor and Marriott.

I think it is the promotions for me/us. But might be pretty difficulty since I don't really travel to Europe or the US. And given the timing, I get annual leave approved and tickets are booked and just need to match up hotel dates for whatever prices are available at that time.

Hilton is maybe one of the most $$$ hotels for us here in NZL. That is if you exclude the boutique hotels. Intercontinental is the most pricey where I am here (Wellington) but we don't have Hilton in this city. We don't even have Marriott in our country, LOL. So it is pretty much intl travels for us. Domestically the advantage of motels is that you can self cater for food, like do a BBQ etc ...

What I seen in Singapore at least is maybe Holiday Inns are ok or Novotel (for Accor group). If we want something 5*, Hiltons can get pricey, not that I want to join them b/c I think they are quite particular with inactivity - the reason why I joined Marriott over them.