China - Shanghai to Ning Hai train problems

During the last month the ticket offices at both Hongqiao and Ning Hai keep changing the number of days to buy tickets. It used to be 7 days in advance, then 5 days in advance, then this Saturday the 17th went to 3 days. And there is a vast shortage of tickets of any sort.

Wednesday morning in Ning Hai we were told only late evening tickets were available for Friday travel and to come back Thursday morning and they may have better tickets. But on Tuesday afternoon they had a lot tickets, just could not sell them. We did have our local Chinese suppliers with us to help with the language so I am sure it is not just us mistaking the system.

We used to be able to get a stand up ticket to Ning Bo and then a ticket to Shanghai, but no more. Please help if there is something I am doing wrong. Thanks. Nola

Its pretty simple economics of supply and demand in
the context of windfall wealth.

During the last month the ticket offices at both Hongqiao and Ning Hai keep changing the number of days to buy tickets. It used to be 7 days in advance, then 5 days in advance, then this Saturday the 17th went to 3 days. And there is a vast shortage of tickets of any sort.

Wednesday morning in Ning Hai we were told only late evening tickets were available for Friday travel and to come back Thursday morning and they may have better tickets. But on Tuesday afternoon they had a lot tickets, just could not sell them. We did have our local Chinese suppliers with us to help with the language so I am sure it is not just us mistaking the system.

We used to be able to get a stand up ticket to Ning Bo and then a ticket to Shanghai, but no more. Please help if there is something I am doing wrong. Thanks. Nola

Have you tried registering online and ordering from there (requires Chinese). I know you can do G and D tickets, not sure about the other trains though.

We cannot do online as we do not have the Chinese ID card. We have been here 2 years and this is the first really bad problems we have had with the trains.

Today our suppliers told us they have been told that they can only buy tickets on the day of travel.

What is sad is that our supplier is driving us to Shanghai as we cannot get tickets. And we all know that cost will be put into the program and if this continues China will no longer be considered the low cost country. At least I think it is sad, some may say who cares. I guess then we all move to the next country that is up and coming.

Travel within China was affordable, by air or train, when you can no longer budget for travel expenses it makes a huge impact on contract negotiations.

We cannot do online as we do not have the Chinese ID card. We have been here 2 years and this is the first really bad problems we have had with the trains.


You don't need to have an ID card to buy train tickets online. A passport will suffice.

Just get someone who 1) reads Chinese, and 2) knows how to use a browser to do it for you.

And we all know that cost will be put into the program and if this continues China will no longer be considered the low cost country.

Yes, China is following in the footsteps laid out by Japan in the 70s and Korea/Taiwan in the 80s. In order to remain competitive, it increasingly needs to innovate (e.g. Foxconn's new robots), make higher quality products (e.g. this is already a necessity for factories in the Shanghai area because they can't compete with their Guangdong counterparts on price), move up the value chain (e.g. from useless plastic trinkets to cars and airplanes), and utilize resources in poor provinces (e.g. our customer service office recently relocated to Gaungxi; everything is still really cheap down there).

All of this is part of the "plan". Sorry for derailing your thread; like tauphi said, just start using that website to buy train tickets. What's Ninghai like? Do they have Sbux and McD's there?

. In order to remain competitive, it increasingly needs to innovate

What's Ninghai like? Do they have Sbux and McD's there?

innovate isn't the correct term....copy more complex expensive products

Starbucks..McDonalds...more like building a 200M RMB yacht club.

We cannot do online as we do not have the Chinese ID card. We have been here 2 years and this is the first really bad problems we have had with the trains.

Today our suppliers told us they have been told that they can only buy tickets on the day of travel.

What is sad is that our supplier is driving us to Shanghai as we cannot get tickets. And we all know that cost will be put into the program and if this continues China will no longer be considered the low cost country. At least I think it is sad, some may say who cares. I guess then we all move to the next country that is up and coming.

Travel within China was affordable, by air or train, when you can no longer budget for travel expenses it makes a huge impact on contract negotiations.

If you are not involved in importing or locally producing something for the Chinese domestic market but merely sourcing in China for export, I suggest you start making intermediate- and long-term plans to do just that: move on to another country. By now it's pretty clear which way the winds are blowing on China costing, for nearly all inputs. For many items, it's been an illusion for awhile that China is a low-cost country--when you figure in what's been circumvented in China to keep those costs unsustainably low, it's not such a sad prospect for China to start being on the Losers' End for a change.

As to your current train woes, I just took a peek on availability on the official website and it looks like things are back out to 10 days, but on weekdays, it really is interesting how most trains Ninghai-Shanghai are sold out or nearly so, except for the evening train. Looks like a lot of the seats are being snapped up at Wenzhou, further up the line, leaving a lot less available for the intermediate stops like Ninghai. Maybe it is just legitimate sell-out, but there could be some shenanigans going on also on this route and the fact that you saw availability but were told they couldn't sell the tickets leads me to believe that somebody (company?) has an "informal" arrangement going on with whatever seat allotment Ninghai has. You're not doing anything wrong. Unfortunately, not really any other good and cost-effective alternatives that I can ferret out. What about taking a bus Ninghai-Ningbo (or reverse) and then train on the Ningbo-Shanghai segment? This won't help of course, if the problem is also on the latter segment rather than just on the Wenzhou-Ningbo part.

For many items, it's been an illusion for awhile that China is a low-cost country--when you figure in what's been circumvented in China to keep those costs unsustainably low, it's not such a sad prospect for China to start being on the Losers' End for a change.


China is still a low cost country, and will remain so even with the upcoming wage increases and further appreciation of the RMB. I helped a guy buy a special type of light bulbs last month, and the cost was pennies on the dollar compared to in the US. Sure, VN or India might have been cheaper, but they don't make the product he required there... so moot point.

China is still a low cost country, and will remain so even with the upcoming wage increases and further appreciation of the RMB. .

China has the factories, labor, and materials. India, Vietnam, Cambodia..
make things China doesn't want to deal with because there isn't the
profit.

2010 GDP US$ per capita:
China - 4382
Thailand - 4992
Indonesia - 2974
Philippines - 2123
India - 1371
Vietnam - 1174
Pakistan - 1030
Cambodia - 814
Myanmar - 742
Bangladesh - 642.
Within China, some rich coastal provinces are quite expensive:
Jiangsu - 7682
Zhejiang - 7390
Guangdong - 6440
The cheapest province is Guizhou - for reasons. Land is not flat for three li, so it will be hard to get your produce out.
Ditto about Yunnan, Gansu and Tibet.

But there are some quite accessible and yet cheap areas:
Anhui - 3045
Guangxi - 3050
Sichuan - 3104
Jiangxi - 3127

Oddly, some regions further inland are more expensive:
Qinghai - 3545
Hunan - 3576
Henan - 3605
Xinjiang - 3676
Shanxi - 3759
Ningxia - 3853
Heilongjiang - 3946
Shenxi - 3966
Hebei - 4079

So, where would you start up an export business?

I've always suspected that GDP numbers are understated because such a large amount of commerce takes place below the radar. For example, take all those mansions in Xuhui (Shanghai) that are owned by people who make less than $2000 per month.

2010 GDP US$ per capita:
China - 4382
Thailand - 4992
Indonesia - 2974
Philippines - 2123
India - 1371
Vietnam - 1174
Pakistan - 1030
Cambodia - 814
Myanmar - 742
Bangladesh - 642.
Within China, some rich coastal provinces are quite expensive:
Jiangsu - 7682
Zhejiang - 7390
Guangdong - 6440
The cheapest province is Guizhou - for reasons. Land is not flat for three li, so it will be hard to get your produce out.
Ditto about Yunnan, Gansu and Tibet.

But there are some quite accessible and yet cheap areas:
Anhui - 3045
Guangxi - 3050
Sichuan - 3104
Jiangxi - 3127

Oddly, some regions further inland are more expensive:
Qinghai - 3545
Hunan - 3576
Henan - 3605
Xinjiang - 3676
Shanxi - 3759
Ningxia - 3853
Heilongjiang - 3946
Shenxi - 3966
Hebei - 4079

So, where would you start up an export business?

Its pretty simple economics of supply and demand in
the context of windfall wealth.

Yes, supply takes time to catch up with suddenly increased demand. Especially thanks to Sheng Guangzu.

Hangzhou-Ningbo is a missing link in the high speed railway Shanghai-Xiamen. Are there any news about progress of high speed railway Hangzhou-Ningbo?

For example, take all those mansions in Xuhui (Shanghai) that are owned by people who make less than $2000 per month.


Also the top floor penthouse apartments were owned by relatives of those who issued the building permits.:D Performance bonus.

Oddly, some regions further inland are more expensive:
Qinghai - 3545

This one makes no sense to me, though there must be a reason (and, I won't rule out fabricated data... possibly to make up for make up for the short fall that I'm convinced exists in the wealthy areas)

Hunan - 3576

Changsha is a kind of a boom town... you could almost call it China's Hollywood

Henan - 3605

I'm not really sure, but this doesn't surprise me so much. I've never seen much abject poverty during my travels there.

Xinjiang - 3676

oil

Shanxi - 3759

coal (this one's a no brainer)

Ningxia - 3853

no first hand experiences

Heilongjiang - 3946

ditto

Shenxi - 3966

Where's that?

Hebei - 4079

surrounding the capital is a good thing

So, where would you start up an export business?


Nanning:
-low cost everything
-decent universities
-helpful government
-HSR being developed to both Shenzhen and Viet Nam border

Where's that?

Sorry - they like to spell it Shaanxi

Nanning:
-low cost everything
-decent universities
-helpful government
-HSR being developed to both Shenzhen and Viet Nam border
When shall the HSR be opened?
How about Beihai (seaport, whereas Xijiang is shallow at drought)?
Or Anhui... HSR already there (Shanghai-Beijing goes via Bengbu, Shanghai-Wuhan via Hefei), and in the middle of China?

Heilongjiang - 3946

There is a major sawmilling and woodworking industry there processing timber imported from Russian Siberia.

Sorry - they like to spell it Shaanxi

When shall the HSR be opened?


I'm sure because I haven't been following it too closely (not on my travel circuit), but IIRC construction started in 2008, so figure next year or 2013.

[/QUOTE]
How about Beihai (seaport, whereas Xijiang is shallow at drought)?
[/QUOTE]

I thought about that because it has a port, but Beihai is considerably more expensive than Nanning, and TMK all of its trains pass through Nanning, anyway.


Or Anhui... HSR already there (Shanghai-Beijing goes via Bengbu, Shanghai-Wuhan via Hefei), and in the middle of China?


I've never had a very favorable impression of Hefei... just kind of a blah city. Bengbu, perhaps, but like many cities in the Jing-Hu corridor, its stock has already started to appreciate at an alarming rate (lots of fancy infrastructure being developed at this point in time).

This one makes no sense to me, though there must be a reason (and, I won't rule out fabricated data... possibly to make up for make up for the short fall that I'm convinced exists in the wealthy areas)


Qinghai has oil and loads of minerals

Yes, supply takes time to catch up with suddenly increased demand. Especially thanks to Sheng Guangzu.

Hangzhou-Ningbo is a missing link in the high speed railway Shanghai-Xiamen. Are there any news about progress of high speed railway Hangzhou-Ningbo?

At G15 expressway west of Ningbo the viaducts have been complete and contact wire is strung. A xinhuanet posting a couple of years ago listed the completion date as Dec 2011.

I did have a conversation and it seems some government inspections in this area recently changed some things. Who knows. I am told there should be changes in the new year.

No I am not working in China, merely following hubs as works with automotive suppliers in China. That is where the lcc comes in, yes they can easlily change those suppliers to "more lcc", but it is getting very hard to find experienced people to move to those countries. It is getting difficult to get people to move to China with the new rules and if they have children. It is a new world with the current changes.

I just want to get a train.

Finding a Chinese person to help with the train is not all that easy. The company has a "travel person" to arrange for this, but they all think the standing room only tickets on the latest train is just dandy. That is how they travel and they do not understand why "we" want and can pay for better tickets.

Ning Hai is changing rapidly, we recently attended a dinner from the Economic Center and the future is staggering. Right now it is small for China, no western type things, but still beautiful and worth a visit. Soon I think that will all change. A lot of money going in that area.