AirTran Airways A+ Rewards - No more XM confirmed

http://www.ajc.com/business/airtrans-xm-satellite-radio-1264880.html

Southwest's chief commercial officer Bob Jordan, who also serves as president of AirTran, told employees in a recorded message Monday that the airline decided to remove the satellite radio service from the AirTran fleet of planes to offer "a consistent product" between Southwest and AirTran.

What a forward-thinking strategy.

An enjoyable enhancement to the flying public gives way to birthright superintendency.

Bold Bob's the right man in the right place.

Thanks Southwest.

Stupid, stupid move.

If they're so bent on a consistent product, they could have expanded XM to Southwest.

Yeah, Bob, why would an airline ever give passengers something to make their trip a little more enjoyable?!?!?!

And, why make this announcement now, when you know you're going to be keeping AirTran as a subsidiary for quite some time to come.

Makes me glad that I have moved a good portion of my travel to other carriers.

I now know how Lando Calrissian felt when Darth Vader came to the cloud city

And, why make this announcement now, when you know you're going to be keeping AirTran as a subsidiary for quite some time to come.

Must have concluded that dismantling amenities one by one over ~120 days is better than yanking off the bandage all at once.

They had lunch over this.

I love Bold Bob's half-assed reasoning that taking satellite radio out of the planes will reduce the weight and fuel capacity.

Yeah, my Honda SUV just drags uncontrollably from the weight of the 3 oz. satellite antenna on my roof.

Southwest, in my opinion YOU SUCK FOR DOING THIS...

I can remember flights sitting in business class, listening to "HAIR NATION" at top volume, drinking my vodka and cranberry; these were some of the best flights I ever had. I can see now that you will slowly WRECK a perfectly good airline!!!!!!!!!!!!

It was a sad, sad, day when Southwest bought out Airtran.

I can remember flights sitting in business class, listening to "HAIR NATION" at top volume, drinking my vodka and cranberry; these were some of the best flights I ever had.

I totally agree, though for me it was always "Electric Area" and a Jack-and-Coke.

My next birthday wish is that some other airline will run widebodies with business class between BOS and BWI for my weekly commute.

Southwest, in my opinion YOU SUCK FOR DOING THIS...

I can remember flights sitting in business class, listening to "HAIR NATION" at top volume, drinking my vodka and cranberry; these were some of the best flights I ever had. I can see now that you will slowly WRECK a perfectly good airline!!!!!!!!!!!!

It was a sad, sad, day when Southwest bought out Airtran.

Just hope the public's travel funds backs up this sentiment.

Unfortunately, as much as I hate this, I think WN can get away with this. They have been weaning people off of XM by stopping supply of earbuds. So only the diehards listen to it.

I am will be curious if they start jacking up BC upgrades before they eliminate BC so they can get the public turned off upgrades.

It looks like XM Radio has already been removed as an inflight amenity from the website.

http://www.airtran.com/inflight_entertainment.aspx

For posterity purposes, here is the press release announcing XM Radio as an inflight amenity:

ORLANDO, Fla.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Jan. 6, 2004--AirTran Airways, a subsidiary of AirTran Holdings, Inc. (NYSE:AAI), today announced that the airline has selected XM Satellite Radio as the airline's new inflight entertainment system. As the launch airline customer for XM Satellite Radio, AirTran Airways will provide its passengers with the best selection of digital audio entertainment available.

XM Satellite Radio is the industry leader in digital satellite radio and offers listeners up to 100 digital audio channels including live news, sports, weather, talk and music programming. The service will be free for all passengers.

Each one of AirTran Airways' Boeing 717 and 737 aircraft will be equipped to offer the new service at every seat, and the airline will begin installation in the summer of 2004 with all aircraft completed by the end of 2004.

"AirTran Airways is proud to announce the addition of the latest in inflight entertainment technology to the most distinctive low-fare service in the industry, which already includes an affordable business class, all new aircraft and service to 45 destinations across the country," said Joe Leonard, AirTran Airways' chairman and chief executive officer. "From takeoff to touchdown, our passengers will be able to experience everything from hip hop to classical music as well as live news, sports, talk, comedy, kids and entertainment programming onboard. AirTran Airways is excited to partner with an innovative company like XM Satellite Radio."

"AirTran Airways is setting a new standard in air transport, offering new levels of convenience and value to their customers. We are truly excited that AirTran Airways has chosen XM for their live inflight entertainment, providing their passengers the opportunity to experience our outstanding audio content wherever they fly," said Hugh Panero, XM's President and CEO.

I knew the writing was on the wall, when an FA told me earbuds were no longer available...customers need to bring their own.

I was only born yesterday but am now wondering if "a consistent product" includes two free checked bags on AirTran?

http://www.ajc.com/business/airtrans-xm-satellite-radio-1264880.html
You could see this coming 2 months ago when they stopped providing XM channel listings in the magazine.

I was only born yesterday but am now wondering if "a consistent product" includes two free checked bags on AirTran?

That would make sense, but don't hold your breath.
What I dread as much as the removal of XM is the removal of GoGo inflight internet from every AirTran flight in exchange for Southwest's implementation of inflight internet on a very small percentage of flights.

You could see this coming 2 months ago when they stopped providing XM channel listings in the magazine.

I'll think they'll keep the AirTran brand operating as long as they reasonably can to help on the revenue side. No hurry in integrating these two carriers (at least from that perspective).

I totally agree, though for me it was always "Electric Area" and a Jack-and-Coke.


Never really bothered me...FL never loaded The Grateful Dead Channel

I'll think they'll keep the AirTran brand operating as long as they reasonably can to help on the revenue side. No hurry in integrating these two carriers (at least from that perspective).

But the more amenities they announce ending, the less attractive the AirTran brand.

To have the ATL customer base NOT regret FL's demise is WN's best-case scenario. Building high expectations for their own product almost requires devaluing the replacement.

I'm not sure when this will actually happen. Just spoke with an Airtran rep. this morning who stated that the full integration will take until 2014. So there may still be time to enjoy Hair Nation!

This is just painful. Its a nice extra benefit that Airtran provided. When friends were booking flights I would mention Airtran have the satellite radio and how enjoyable it is.

I'd take anything you were told by an AirTran rep with a grain of salt.

In my experiences, the employees know the least of anyone as to what will happen. Management thrives on keeping them in the dark.

The last of the XM equipment should be removed within about 60 days or so, per the press item.

No offense to the ranks at the front lines, but they are indeed often sure of information which turns out to be wrong. Management (and this isn't just an airline thing) often does not share any more with them than they share with the media simply because it's nearly impossible to have the masses keep confidential information under wraps.

XM always made the trip a better experience. So sad to see it go. I was hoping SW would expand the use.

I'm not sure when this will actually happen. Just spoke with an Airtran rep. this morning who stated that the full integration will take until 2014. So there may still be time to enjoy Hair Nation!

The plan as of a few week's ago starts the long conversion process in April 2012. Thats when they expect approval of the single operating certificate from the FAA. The first airplanes to turn into "SWA" metal will be the 737's in 2012. Only 20 airplanes are scheduled to be converted in 2012 to SWA. The rest of the 737's on the Airtran side that are not "international birds"(SAT COM, HF and rafts) will be converted to international birds. Those airplanes will be converted to SWA late 2013 into NOV 2014. Pretty much by the end of next year SWA will do all the 737 domestic flying for Airtran. As for 717's, they will start there conversion in JAN 2013 and finish up the beginning of 2014. The 717's take a little less time to convert because they are not changing a whole lot of the airplane. Pretty much a new paint job and SWA seats. The 737's take a little longer because they have to install not only seats but a rear galley(airtran never ordered 737 with a rear galley) and some avonic changes to the flight deck to comply with SWA op specs. The last airplane to go SWA will be sometime in NOV 2014 and Airtran will be put to bed.

Supposedly the code share will be up and running by the first half of 2012. Since the yields are outstanding to the international markets SWA wants to take advantage of it now and not wait. Hence why some of the 737's will be left behind on the Airtran side to do international. While that is going on they will hopefully make a decision on what new reservation system they would like to replace there old one with which will give them the necessary software to do international as well as assigned seating. Bottom line Airtran will be around for a while BUT it will begin to shrink starting next year.

Unlike most other airlines SWA does communicate a lot with there employees and does a good job of keeping them in the loop as much as they can. Obviously things are fluid in this business and things change a lot but they do make the best effort to communicate what they can to the employees.

Thank you for that update, rumorboy. I am glad to hear that it will take them a while to convert over. I am also praying that something goes wrong with the single operator license and it will get delayed for a while longer yet...

And yes, truly Southwest has the ability to make a better airline by keeping the XM. But I guess they do not strive to be a better airline.

While that is going on they will hopefully make a decision on what new reservation system they would like to replace there old one with which will give them the necessary software to do international as well as assigned seating.

Any likelihood assigned seating will remain on int'l runs?

Thanks for the info, rumorboy -- much appreciated.

Is the information you're speaking of primarily from the perspective of when planes will be painted and fully refurbished to WN standards? That may be a different than when other aspects of AirTran "convert over" to Southwest.

For example, the removal of XM is moving that particular aspect of the AirTran fleet to Southwest standardization long before the planes are painted and reconfigured.

It seems likely, at least in my opinion, that many of the things which are different on AirTran will need to go Southwest's way as soon as they start to intermix.

--How can they collect baggage fees for AirTran flights but not Southwest flights when there is a mixed itinerary? If I fly AUS-BWI on Southwest but my return is BWI-ATL-AUS, how can they collect a bag fee if my BWI-ATL segment is AirTran, but not if my BWI-ATL fee is Southwest? (And I mean "how can they" both from the nuts-and-bolts how to make the system do it, and "how can they" from an exaplain-it-to-the-customer standpoint.)

--If I want to book MDW-ATL-SRQ on the Southwest site, with ATL-SRQ still having assigned seating and business class because they are AirTran, how will the Southwest site allow me to buy a seat assignment or business class upgrade? And if they go through the effort to upgrade the functionality of Southwest's system to allow paid seat assignment and business class seating, would it be worth all the time and cost to make that happen just for a brief time until the AirTran seat assignments and business class go away? Seems unlikely.

The assigned seating, business class, and bag fee differences are severe and widespread enough that they have to reconcile before they start to cross-feed.

The other option would be to not do much cross-feeding -- simply let them operate separately until AirTran is phased out. The problem with that is ATL, MKE and BWI really need connections to work. And if there isn't cross-feeding between FL and WN, the hubs need to mostly remain one brand or the other. ATL with 35% WN and 65% FL will not work.

The only way I could see that pathway working is by converting over hubs in a single swooping action. Starting xx/xx/xx, all Atlanta flights operate as WN with WN policies and standards. As the "AirTran" system gets smaller, it could be confined to point-to-point routes, especially Florida. The could temporarily move some AirTran planes to Florida point-to-point markets currently served by Southwest to free up more Southwest planes to make a hub swtich over all at once.

Even if there is that sort of change over, I still can't see how they don't standardize key things between WN and FL far sooner than 2014. While it may be that there are still signs of AirTran until 2014 in terms of planes, I just don't know how they can integrate slowly while keeping AirTran looking and functioning like AirTran does today.

And yes, truly Southwest has the ability to make a better airline by keeping the XM. But I guess they do not strive to be a better airline.

I think with the WIFI SWA has you will begin to see over time more and more access through that venue. Think of the WIFI as hub for most inflight entertainment. Music, movies, etc. I personally like XM myself but it never really took off in the airline business. I think as the technologies get better on the WIFI, you will have a better inflight experience. One of the problems that Airtran has with the xm going forward is the fact you lose XM as well as WIFI going to the Caribbean. Airtran WIFI is ground based vs SWA is satellite based. It gives SWA more range as they push into the southern Caribbean, Mexico, Central and South America as well as Hawaii. This is a priority but getting Airtran absorbed into SWA is number one at the moment and will continue to be until its done.

any likelihood assigned seating will remain on int'l runs?

All International flights although it doesn't require assign seating BUT it does require every passenger's name to match a seat number. Don't know how SWA gets around that and hence why ALL international flights have assign seating. That will be the same at SWA on international flights only. One of the limitations they have with their reservation system is the fact they can't do assign seating. Their IT people have been working a lot to get the codeshare functions as well as "limited international capability" going as fast as they can. While they do that they can somewhat do due diligence on getting a whole new reservation system. Acquiring a new reservation is a pretty daunting task into itself. Its not like you can go to Bestbuy and buy a software upgrade for it. It has a lot different functions other than an taking your reservation. Revenue management(thats a big one), IROP,Kiosk machines and dispatch systems just to name a few. Its something they won't get rushed into. Which is a good thing.

As far as different products go, thats a great question which I don't have an answer for. I have a feeling that SWA will code share on select flights with Airtran. I don't see a full blown codeshare on every flight. The example would be the flights to Mexico from the west coast starting in June. I would bet those get a codeshare of some sort. Bag fees, I don't have a clue about. Something that SWA will have to work out. I know Airtran gets a lot of money with those fees but there fares are not high enough to get rid of it yet. SWA average fare is a lot higher than Airtran. I guess the people in the revenue management department have a lot of work to do.

Business class will eventually disappear as Airtran airplanes switch over to SWA. Until then though, business class will be offered on every Airtran flight until the last one goes over.

SWA doesn't like the hub and spoke system that Airtran has so therefore ATL will have less connecting flights and more P2P. I think as of now the number flights will about the same. I think thats also a work in progress.

This is by far one of the harder mergers to do. SWA and Airtran are completely different airlines not only product wise but technology wise. So its going to be a bear to get everything done on time and on budget. CAL/UA, AWA/US, and NWA/DAL all had alliances with each other before they merged as well similar products, technology and functionality. Not so much with this one. It will interesting few years to say the least. Happy New Year.

Thanks for the further info...happy new year to you as well! Hopefully the ongoing process toward merger is a generally positive experience for all employees.

And so it begins...

Took a flight from ATL-ACY Sunday - XM as usual.

Flew home tonight - XM has already been removed.

I said to the FA, "Wow, that was fast." She said every night they're taking one or two planes into the hanger to strip them of this one tiny perk that actually made flying somewhat more pleasant (my words, obviously).

I asked how long until BC goes away and she said, "Pretty soon."

"You mean sometime this summer?" I asked.

"Oh no, much sooner than that," she responded.

So take that for whatever it's worth.

I made sure to take two snacks from the basket and have two drinks on a 90-minute flight. Getting my money's worth before I bolt for Delta.

I know this may sound stupid but it's kind of like Star Trek - with the BORG :eek:. FL will slowly be converted to WN and RESISTANCE IS FUTILE. But it doesn't mean that I have to like it.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3736785/LUV.jpg
What a shame.

I know this may sound stupid but it's kind of like Star Trek - with the BORG :eek:. FL will slowly be converted to WN and RESISTANCE IS FUTILE. But it doesn't mean that I have to like it.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3736785/LUV.jpg
What a shame.

Yes, except the Borg seek to improve the collective by assimilating knowledge and technology from other civilizations (while conquering along the way). WN wants no part of any of the good things that made FL a great airline. Just make more WN drones all lined up at their little numbered posts.

It's too bad that nothing...absolutely nothing from AirTran will survive.

At least when Republic bought Frontier & Midwest and merged the two, they tried to blend some good things from both carriers.

Not the case here. No biz class, no XM, no assigned seats, no gogo on every flight (they're very slowly putting in wifi on southwest).

It will be interesting to see if they also dump the booking of tickets on third-party sites.

The January 2012 issue of AirTran's GO Magazine is still branded as AirTran.

The list of XM radio channels is gone, but the magazine still mentions gogo and Business Class.

And so it begins...

Took a flight from ATL-ACY Sunday - XM as usual.

Flew home tonight - XM has already been removed.

I said to the FA, "Wow, that was fast." She said every night they're taking one or two planes into the hanger to strip them of this one tiny perk that actually made flying somewhat more pleasant (my words, obviously).

I asked how long until BC goes away and she said, "Pretty soon."

"You mean sometime this summer?" I asked.

"Oh no, much sooner than that," she responded.

So take that for whatever it's worth.


I don't know where she got her info from but there are no changes to business class and GOGO WIFI. As long as Airtran is operating there will B/C and WIFI(gogo) on every flight.

Business Class will go away eventually as Airtran will. GOGO inflight will be replaced with Row 44 inflight which is satellite vs ground based like GoGO. I think Row 44 will be better in the long run because GOGO does not work(as well as XM) when you down to the Caribbean. Plus Row 44 has better band width.

"We don’t run into bandwidth issues because we can turn on more transponders so our ability to add more beams throughout not only the country but around the world makes it virtually unlimited. In the aircraft, which has always been the question people have asked, we’ve seen upwards of 150 simultaneous users doing different things including streaming movies and all kinds of activities, so we’re not worried about that,” says Row 44′s head marketer Howard Lefkowitz.

Any likelihood assigned seating will remain on int'l runs?

An AirTran flight attendant told me that International routes MUST have assigned seating, so Southwest (if they keep the international routes) will have to have this capability in their computer system.

That gives me a wee bit of hope they might go to assigned seating.

I know the Southwest flight attendants don't like the current boarding process either.

And as a frequent Airtran business flyer, I'm looking to see what else fits my needs because the getting A16 or even paying business class doesn't mean much if passengers staying on the plane from the previous leg take the 5 good seats.

Unfortunately, as much as I hate this, I think WN can get away with this. They have been weaning people off of XM by stopping supply of earbuds. So only the diehards listen to it.

I am will be curious if they start jacking up BC upgrades before they eliminate BC so they can get the public turned off upgrades.

Just like WN's IFE and meals on board policy: bring your own. Why someone thinks it is cool to watch a movie on a tiny mobile phone screen is beyond me; yet I'm sure WN is counting on it.

The Borg must know who Billy Baloney is. I got a letter from them today stating how great and wonderful the assimilation of Airtran and Southwest will be, once Airtran becomes a full-fledged part of the collective. They did admit in the letter that it will take several years to complete.

The Borg must know who Billy Baloney is. I got a letter from them today stating how great and wonderful the assimilation of Airtran and Southwest will be, once Airtran becomes a full-fledged part of the collective. They did admit in the letter that it will take several years to complete.

The longer the better.

The longer the better.

In the interim, the fares are modeled after SWA. :td:

I know the Southwest flight attendants don't like the current boarding process either.



Totally incorrect.

Which under most circumstances would be unconscionable. But as I see it, the Borg leave us with little choice.

I don't know where she got her info from but there are no changes to business class and GOGO WIFI. As long as Airtran is operating there will B/C and WIFI(gogo) on every flight.

Business Class will go away eventually as Airtran will. GOGO inflight will be replaced with Row 44 inflight which is satellite vs ground based like GoGO. I think Row 44 will be better in the long run because GOGO does not work(as well as XM) when you down to the Caribbean. Plus Row 44 has better band width.

"We don’t run into bandwidth issues because we can turn on more transponders so our ability to add more beams throughout not only the country but around the world makes it virtually unlimited. In the aircraft, which has always been the question people have asked, we’ve seen upwards of 150 simultaneous users doing different things including streaming movies and all kinds of activities, so we’re not worried about that,” says Row 44′s head marketer Howard Lefkowitz.

So I could use some advice as someone who has not flown AirTran before. Looking at buying two business class tickets from MKE-AUA in August. Do you think its safe to assume that their business class seating will still be around? Since its our 15 yr wedding anniversary, I really don't want to end up in SWA cattle car seating.

Thanks for the help.

So I could use some advice as someone who has not flown AirTran before. Looking at buying two business class tickets from MKE-AUA in August. Do you think its safe to assume that their business class seating will still be around? Since its our 15 yr wedding anniversary, I really don't want to end up in SWA cattle car seating.

Thanks for the help.

I think you're good. It's an AirTran product and plane selling a BC seat.

Happy Anniversary!

I think you're good. It's an AirTran product and plane selling a BC seat.

Happy Anniversary!

Great! Thanks!

I know this may sound stupid but it's kind of like Star Trek - with the BORG :eek:. FL will slowly be converted to WN and RESISTANCE IS FUTILE. But it doesn't mean that I have to like it.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3736785/LUV.jpg
What a shame.

Just made a run from BWI - FLL. I am unhappy to report that the XM was completely gone. I don't like this transition at all, and they have cheapened a perfectly good airline. Makes it cheap, and ordinary. I hate WN.

On a recent trip to MKE-LAS and then LAS-ATL on the same aircraft virtually all the XM hardware was gone. A few armrest controls obviously INOP were the last remnants.

To the good more underseat space where the XM boxes used to be.

I envision WN keeping FL as an international flight-only brand, so they can bring 2 sets of operating standards (for example all flights to SJU, AUA and other Caribbean, Mexican, Central and South America destinations would be on FL) w/o "clashing the WN machine" as it is.

So it could be possible (likely if they're smart enough) that WN will absorb every FL flight within the Lower 48 States and FL keep the flights beyond 'em (w/a few more amenities than WN would offer....).

What do ya' think???

Me thinks that they don't even know...

WN seems to have done one thing right....

Every FL employee I have spoken to (and I have spoken to quite a few) is enthused about the merger.

The end users are the only ones complaining.

WN seems to have done one thing right....

Every FL employee I have spoken to (and I have spoken to quite a few) is enthused about the merger.

The end users are the only ones complaining.

The same four end users are the only ones complaining

The same four end users are the only ones complaining

Judging by the extended extra-generous credit promotion, I'd say a lot of other end users are "complaining" with their money on other airlines.

WN seems to have done one thing right....

Every FL employee I have spoken to (and I have spoken to quite a few) is enthused about the merger.

The end users are the only ones complaining.


Have you talked to any of the pilots off the record? I seem to remember WN threatening to disband FL completely if the pilots didn't sign the agreement WN was putting in front of them.

WN seems to have done one thing right....

Every FL employee I have spoken to (and I have spoken to quite a few) is enthused about the merger.

The end users are the only ones complaining.

Curious if any 717 pilots were counted as "enthused" employees. Met one Tuesday who would take strong issue w/that.

168 AirTran pilots (http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/major-national-lcc/airtran.html) will transition to SWA in 2012 (9% of the pilot group); remaining pilots will transition beginning July 2013.

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/images/stories/airlines/pay_airtranfinal.png

I would be honored to be included among the select four.

I have mostly talked with cabin crew, gate agents, CSR's etc. The one or two pilots I have spoken with didn't seem to have a problem. Haven't spoken with any of the 717 cockpit crew. My guess is that they will all have 737 type ratings within the year and do the transition


The same four end users are the only ones complaining

Haven't spoken with any of the 717 cockpit crew. My guess is that they will all have 737 type ratings within the year and do the transition

Why "within the year?"

My guess is DL will hire some FL 717 crews when they take the birds. The rest of them haven't been told or figured out what they will do. Nothing I've seen suggests the 86 717s, currently on lease from Boeing, won't be traded in to Boeing for more SWA 737's. I read that each DL pilot moving from a DC9 would need only about 11 hours of conversion time.

I know this all assumes facts not in evidence.

FL actually has 88 717s and I don't think all are on lease from Boeing. Though ultimately through a third party they may be. Yes DL would seem a likely user since 30yr old DC-9s are due to be retired. Same aircraft type rating with a much more modern glass cockpit and CAT 3 autoland would be a plus..

I can attest flying BC on an FL 717 is the quietest flight you can experience.

I can attest flying BC on an FL 717 is the quietest flight you can experience.

Not as quite as the front of an MD-80 or 90. No other plane is as quite as those.

Is anyone else not getting the "it's time to check in" emails from Air Tran? Haven't gotten them my last three flights. Granted, they never used to send them until 45 minutes or so past the T-24 mark, so I'd usually already checked in by then, but found it odd that the emails aren't coming at all (and not to my husband, either, so I know it isn't an email issue).