Thailand - General questions about Pay and Conditions In Thailand

Hey guys,

I've just spent a couple of week in Samui on vacation with the Missus. I've been flying through BKK with TG on the way from Australia to Europe for about 5 years but have never left the airport. Since I had a number of miles to burn this time, I decided to take the missus down to Samui for a 10 day vacation. Had a great time, but it opened my eyes to the poor side of life, and I was left with couple of questions about what sort of money people in Thailand survive on.

For starters, we stayed in a very nice 5 star hotel outside of Chewang. What sort of salary would the staff here be on? I understand that it varies a bit, but lets just say an average wage for the Guest Service Agents? Is this considered to be a reasonably good job in Thailand? Respected by others?

What about the girls who did a fantastic massage each day?

I assume that staff working for the airliners are considered to have a reasonable job as well? Anybody able to give a rough guide as to what a flight attendant might make a month?

Missus AB and I made sure to tip alot when we received good service - and this was one of the things that really stood out to us - the service that staff at the hotel provided was fantastic! Sure, English was always a bit of an issue but that's part of the fun in my opinion! Everywhere we went we where amazed that people who seem to live in such poor conditions and with only the most basic of essentials could be so happy.

Great trip and I'll be sure to come back, just curious about what the costs of living and salaries are like.

Cheers,
AB

Everywhere we went we where amazed that people who seem to live in such poor conditions and with only the most basic of essentials could be so happy.

More material goods does not equal more happiness.
As the Notorious B.I.G. said, "Mo Money Mo Problems"

Thailand - Minimum Wage 2011 Increases (http://www.business-in-asia.com/thailand/minimum_wage2011.html)

They don't paid much.

EmailKid

Thailand - Minimum Wage 2011 Increases (http://www.business-in-asia.com/thailand/minimum_wage2011.html)

They don't paid much.

EmailKid

One very important point to be made about that link. That is the minimum wage for a day's work. That's not per hour. So your meal at your fancy hotel probably cost more than many of those people's daily salary.

Of course those are minimum wages, and many people do get paid more than the minimum.

Irrespective of wages. I would imagine there is a queue a mile long when applicants apply for a job in a 5 star hotel on a tropical island.:rolleyes:

Irrespective of wages. I would imagine there is a queue a mile long when applicants baapply for a job in a 5 star hotel on a tropical island.:rolleyes:

yeah but for the tips not the 250-300 baht they get a day working,

7-11 pays 7-8000 baht a month

RB

yeah but for the tips not the 250-300 baht they get a day working,

7-11 pays 7-8000 baht a month

RB

Which when you do the maths is negligible !

Missus AB and I made sure to tip alot when we received good service - and this was one of the things that really stood out to us - the service that staff at the hotel provided was fantastic!
AB


Please do not tip when travelling through Asia, tipping is generally not expected or to be encouraged.
Those of us who live here do not want to see the U$A style of tipping to expand any further than it already has.

Thanks for your consideration.

Please do not tip when travelling through Asia, tipping is generally not expected or to be encouraged.
Those of us who live here do not want to see the U$A style of tipping to expand any further than it already has.

Thanks for your consideration.

^ +2

Regarding very low wages, consider also the extraordinarily low cost of living in Thailand, especially outside of Bangkok. Don't make the mistake of judging wages in one country according to your own experiences -- local wages are generally appropriate when viewed in the context of the local economy.

Thai also enjoy excellent job security thanks to employee-favorable labor laws.

Please do not tip when travelling through Asia, tipping is generally not expected or to be encouraged.
Those of us who live here do not want to see the U$A style of tipping to expand any further than it already has.

Thanks for your consideration.

I find that farcical when you think that tipping in bars is somewhat obligitory.

You should've asked them how much they made when you were there. It's not a taboo topic like it is in the west to discuss earnings. Also,you mentioned that you spent much time in Australia. I thought Australia wasn't a tipping culture? You should be used to this. Tipping is not customary in most parts of Asia as previously mentioned.

Tippling in bars is definitely encouraged.

Most hotel employees will not be completely honest when discussing their wages. For instance, a popular Bangkok hotel may only pay its employees $300-400/ per month (or less), but they won't tell you the service charge that they get every month from the surcharge on your room and F&B will add up to another $700/month. Yes, this hotel may be the exception, as they have high occupancy and room rates year round. But, it's an example of how hidden the real income may be.

I do not encourage people not to tip. Tip if you want. Just as at home, many people rely on the tips.

But also, realize that many places... many many places (specifically hotels and their dining areas) already have charged you for the tip.

The difference in Thailand is that you can tip if you want. You can not tip if you don't want to. The choice is truly up to the consumer, as it should be worldwide.

Please do not tip when travelling through Asia, tipping is generally not expected or to be encouraged.
Those of us who live here do not want to see the U$A style of tipping to expand any further than it already has.

Thanks for your consideration.

I find that farcical when you think that tipping in bars is somewhat obligitory.

Wait, what??

Where do I say tipping in bars is obligatory?

This is only my third post on FT so I know you have me confused with someone else.

The only tipping I do is when I can't be bothered picking up the change....

You should've asked them how much they made when you were there. It's not a taboo topic like it is in the west to discuss earnings. Also,you mentioned that you spent much time in Australia. I thought Australia wasn't a tipping culture? You should be used to this. Tipping is not customary in most parts of Asia as previously mentioned.

It was my first time to Thailand, and since its not customary to ask about somebodies wages in the western world, I didn't think it would do it there.

As for the tipping, we generally don't tip in Australia, however if I get excellent service somewhere, I.e, in a restaurant then yes, I will tip. Servce that does above and beyond deserves a reward. If I want to tip my masseuse, bartender or waiter for excellent service then I will. I doubt that any of you people in Asia are going to have to start tipping because I do...

I doubt that any of you people in Asia are going to have to start tipping because I do...
Ignorance is bliss.

Ignorance is bliss.

+2

On the point "I got such great service" or "fantastic" as you mention. Well, the avg. quality of service at a hotel in Thailand is just better than USA or Aussie.

Add to that fact, you were at a FIVE star hotel. If you look at the criteria for obtaining a 5-star rated hotel, it is classified as "luxury". Had I received anything but fantastic service from a Thai located 5-star hotel, I would be sorely disappointed.

As for tipping, when you go to temples, or "points-of-interest" and there is a price for locals/expats and a higher (sometimes MUCH higher) price for tourists, you'll realize you're already getting "taxed" simply for not knowing their language. Tipping is appreciated there now b/c of western culture's influence over their culture. I mean, who's going to turn down FREE money which they never received before and have done their jobs no differently than before???

At least in the US, tipping is expected b/c of the socio-economic expectations (and pay) given to people in those industries is less b/c of the expectation of tipping by the patrons. They LIVE on those tips and need them to make a living wage.

In Thailand, and other nearby Asian countries, there never was that expectation, but as it has taken hold b/c of ppl similar to your situation thinking "my tipping won't corrupt a culture" than you must not vote in elections for similar feelings of "my vote doesn't count". The jobs in those areas are highly sought after b/c of the "hidden income" that is now added to any bill at the hotel.

People living there (or ex-pats) that make respectable incomes (for Thai standards) now b/c of their ethnicity are expected to become "tippers" when they have lived there for years and never have had this hoisted upon them.


But, I digress. You can assume Thai hotel counterparts are actually earning a BETTER wage than their American (not sure on Aussie) hotel brethren since they don't share in the revenue of the room rates or have a 10% tax levied per room so they can get more free money, etc. .....when adjusted for the locality in question and avg. living standards

As for tipping, when you go to temples, or "points-of-interest" and there is a price for locals/expats and a higher (sometimes MUCH higher) price for tourists, you'll realize you're already getting "taxed" simply for not knowing their language.


Uh, no. Language skills have nothing to do with the price differential at tourist sites; being tall and white and completely fluent in Thai will get you a smile and a tourist ticket at tourist prices.

+2

In Thailand, and other nearby Asian countries, there never was that expectation, but as it has taken hold b/c of ppl similar to your situation thinking "my tipping won't corrupt a culture" than you must not vote in elections for similar feelings of "my vote doesn't count". The jobs in those areas are highly sought after b/c of the "hidden income" that is now added to any bill at the hotel.


My tipping has corrupted a culture has it? Damn, so I'm the one to blame for all those failed and over budget government projects! Sorry chaps!

Wouldn't have happened if the Government had tipped better ;)

Uh, no. Language skills have nothing to do with the price differential at tourist sites; being tall and white and completely fluent in Thai will get you a smile and a tourist ticket at tourist prices.

It has been noted in a few different posts, showing your work permit and speaking thai will get you the "locals" rate. In my long post...I only mentioned language...my forgotten portion. It wasn't to infer a tourist could get discounted rates for speaking the language.

My tipping has corrupted a culture has it? Damn, so I'm the one to blame for all those failed and over budget government projects! Sorry chaps!

Wouldn't have happened if the Government had tipped better ;)

Utterly and completely, yes. ;)

On the margins, it affects the standards. The more it is done willingly, the more it will be expected....the more it raises the avg end cost to the consumer/ex-pat/etc.

I never use to see a tip jar in Subway...now I do. I never use to see a tip jar in family run restaurants where you order/obtain your food at the counter...now you do. The same will happen in any area where the masses continue to feel their actions have no implications.

There's a thread over on Teakdoor concerning what various Expats live on per month. Some in the boonies of Issan have it down to 6000B/month and that's for a couple. I can't imagine what their rent is. Outside of the major cities one can live mighty inexpensively.. wj

From: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Gratuities-cannot-be-part-of-wage-30178480.html

Gratuities cannot be part of wage

The Nation March 22, 2012 1:00 am

Labour Minister Phadermchai Sasomsap said yesterday that extra income from gratuity or service charges could not be included in the Bt300 daily minimum wage, but if any employer insists on including the service charge, he must discuss it with the workers first.

This would be an employment change so the Labour Court's mediation service could be used if both sides couldn't agree, he said.

Arthit Isamo, director-general of the Labour Protection and Welfare Department, said the service charge was considered as welfare under the Labour Relations Act.

The Supreme Court has also ruled that an employer could keep 22 per cent of the service charge for workers' welfare and share the rest among the staff, he said.

Since it was money from customers, not from the employer, it wasn't a wage, he added.

From April 1, Bangkok, Phuket, Samut Prakan, Samut Sakhon, Pathum Thani, Nakhon Pathom and Nonthaburi will hike the daily minimum wage to Bt300.

It has been noted in a few different posts, showing your work permit and speaking thai will get you the "locals" rate. In my long post...I only mentioned language...my forgotten portion. It wasn't to infer a tourist could get discounted rates for speaking the language.



If you possess a work permit you will get the 'Thai' rate when entrance fees have two levels. Language is completely and totally irrelevant; you can speak Swahili for all they care.

There's a thread over on Teakdoor concerning what various Expats live on per month. Some in the boonies of Issan have it down to 6000B/month and that's for a couple. I can't imagine what their rent is. Outside of the major cities one can live mighty inexpensively.. wj

When I lived in Meuang Ubon we had a typical Thai style studio which was 3500 B/month. That included cable and internet. Electricity was additional but didn't amount to much.

Just going about normal life we likely could spend under 15,000 B/month. We traveled alot so our expenses were higher, but the premise is correct: Life in Issan can be had inexpensively.

It has been noted in a few different posts, showing your work permit and speaking thai will get you the "locals" rate. In my long post...I only mentioned language...my forgotten portion. It wasn't to infer a tourist could get discounted rates for speaking the language.



I am not sure what the "locals" rate refers to exactly? There are many different instances of two-tiered entrance fees, like in National parks, or even where entrance fees are zero for Thai citizens, like at major religious/cultural attractions.

For these tourist attraction entrance fees I do not believe your visa status (non-imm B or O, to which work permits are typically attached) allows you to take advantage of the Thai citizen rates? (I am not even sure that a Permanent Resident status gets you these benefits?)

Going the other way, tourists can be eligible for VAT refunds. :D

Couple of things I thought I'd mention:

1) In Thailand, it's fairly customary to augment local employee wages with things such as food allowance (or lunch allowance provided), transportation allowance, uniforms/clothing, and sometimes other culturally-specific stuff such as merit-making Kathin trips, etc. I believe this is non-taxable to the employee but serves to buttress their cash wage a bit, and allows employers a way to sweeten the pot at relatively small incremental business cost.

2) In developing Asia (i.e. exclude Japan, S. Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong), latest urban wage comparisons put Thailand 2nd highest of all countries, a distant second behind Malaysia (which is actually IMO in a different category). In conjunction with low living costs as somebody above already pointed out, Thai wages don't put the locals on too bad of a footing, particularly those in urban and especially resort areas. You have to take everything in the complete context to get the full picture.

In early 2008 I was staying at a newly-rebuilt (post-tsunami) hotel in Khao Lak, and the Customer Service manager there and I got into a chat one evening. Turns out she was from the northeast (Isaan) but unlike many women in that region, had graduated from university in tourism/hospitality or something. She absolutely hated the South of Thailand and Southern Thai people ("jai dam" = "black hearts") but said the money and opportunity was so much better for her in the beach resort areas, so she was going to grit her teeth and deal with it for 2-3 years.

Living expenses: I last lived continuously in Thailand (Chiang Mai) in early 2001 and lived like a queen (nice huge 1 bedroom furnished apartment inside the old city walls for Baht 8000/mo which was OVERpriced back then, eating out sumptiously though mostly local, using local transport, etc.) and was only spending USD 300/month with plenty of room to go fully Thai and downmarket for about 1/2 or 2/3 of that. Given today's currency rates it would be about $420/month for all the necessities of shelter, food, transport, but the point is: especially outside Bangkok and maybe Phuket, it's still easy to live cheap and well.

Inflation here in Thailand has averaged ~ 2.5% per year since 2001.

Agree that the total compensation is sometimes challenging to quantify. In addition to annual bonuses, and other variable compensation (formal and informal) there are also generous sick-leave (30 days) benefits, and subsidized housing and food allowances (yes, there is a free lunch) (which might reduce the base compensation).

Housing, food and transportation costs might actually be a bit higher in some of the tourist/resort areas? For transportation I would also factor in at least two annual trips back home.

Health insurance is pretty much subsidized 100% but you do have to use government facilities. If you go private you have to pay.

The 7/11 clerks get mentioned a lot in threads like these. In my neighborhood in Bangkok 7/11 clerks share apartments close to the stores they work in, so they can walk to work, and get to work on time. This housing is partially subsidized.

I think the turn-over in the service industries is a lot higher than we might imagine?

The OP asked about Flight Attendants and Guest Service Agents (I'm thinking front desk/back-office here?). For Thai-citizen FA's compensation is all over the map, ranging from 15,000 (entry level/domestic) to 80,000+ baht/month (if some of the help wanted ads, and other internet posts are to be believed), with room for additional compensation in those figures. Longer term international FAs with TG seem to be in the highest bracket. I think income tax starts to kick in ~ 12,500/month, but it is progressive.

My best guess on a hotel (resort: 4/5 star) GSA would be 12,000 - 18,000/month.

I run hotels of differing sizes and levels on Phuket. We are complying with the law (effective April 1) where my lowest paid staff... generally a newly recruited KP, Maid, Cleaner will receive the minimum wage of 9000 thb per month. Upon passing their probation of 119 days they are entitled to a further small rise. Then annually and following this assessment further rises/promotion or length of service rises apply along with an annual cost of living rise.

Additionally all receive a service charge set each month which tends to follow the occupancy, season and guest feedback. These are equally distributed with no extra for managers other then those operating at group level across 2 or more properties. This can easily add 50% to the monthly income.

Free food on duty is provided for all (2 meals per shift) and I strive to ensure that it is both tasty and nourishing. Uniforms are provided. Transport to and from a central point is invaluable for those living a distance away and is free. For staff from different provinces there is staff accommodation provided at a minimal cost.

So, yes.... lowly qualified staff will not receive a heck of a lot but some compensation is there in the form of additional benefits. This year we have introduced 6 days off each month as well and constantly try to find better conditions for staff whilst still remaining within a tough budget.

A GSA in a Five star..... 9000 bht (ish) to start with.

Slight tangent to the topic, but do Thai's in the service industry get excited when their customers are American? For example, if a bell person had to choose between the American couple and the Australian couple to bring their bags up to their room they would definitely choose the Americans do to our propensity to tip everyone?

A GSA in a Five star..... 9000 bht (ish) to start with.

Where quite a few of their customers make that much per hour.

Slight tangent to the topic, but do Thai's in the service industry get excited when their customers are American? For example, if a bell person had to choose between the American couple and the Australian couple to bring their bags up to their room they would definitely choose the Americans do to our propensity to tip everyone?

a. they wouldn't have the option of choosing.
b. if they did they probably couldn't identify the American (from the U.S.A. for resident pedants) customers, unless they were film stars.
c. if they had a choice they'd choose the customer set with the fewest, lightest looking, bags.

;)

Where quite a few of their customers make that much per hour.

Not sure how this is relevant, extreme income gaps between unskilled labour and rich people are visible in every country in the world.

Where quite a few of their customers make that much per hour.

Nonsense. Many of their guests make that much per hour? That's $600k per year, which I doubt that many of their guests make.

Many of the factories that were flooded out are still not back to work , some workers are getting paid by the companies so they can be sure they have a good workforce when they do open ,
But I am sure many will never reopen and those workers will be out of a job,

the 300 baht a day sounds great , but it also puts Thailand at the high end for low skilled labor and has already increased inflation.

About the only people I tip are the taxi drivers and thats just rounding it up and a little more if they are taking me somewhere and it will be hard to get a return fare on the way back. But taxi fares are going to rise soon too !

BK

I have an answer for you guys! I am Thai so I know that inside out. Most of the hotels' employees would probably get around 10,000 baht/month or more depending on their title and ability to speak english.They would make more if the hotels are chain from Europe or USA. But if they are not in BKK then their wages are usually less.

Tipping the masseurs is VERY encouraged. The hotels charge you hefty but they probably make only 8,000 baht/month only.

Most of the time, restaurants in bkk already include 10% service charge, so no need to tip in the restaurants. You can look at the bill and it will be there. If not then it's up to you.

Anyway, most people who work in the service industry DO NOT earn decent income. We consider them low skilled workers.

Just because you can spend cheaply in Thailand does not mean everything is also cheap for the locals.

Cars are very expensive in Thailand, the price is probably at least double of pricing in USA. All electronics are more expensive than US price. Immagine you want a basic computer which costs $350 in USA. That would cost roughly $450 in Thailand. Average low-skilled worker earns $300/month so it would take them to save up for a whole year just to be able to buy a computer.

If you can afford to tip then just do it, couple bucks for you mean a lot to them. And when you do, just give it directly to the person. Put it in their pockets otherwise it might go back to the business owner instead.