EL AL Matmid - Intresting Article about ELAL

This is an analysis about EL AL. Nothing new, but reading this confirms the feeling I had that EL AL is threading water and did not grow much since it became a public company.

http://www.centreforaviation.com/blogs/aviation-blog/el-als-sao-paulo-departure-highlights-carriers-stagnation-62390

Too bad, it is sad to see that.

Wow, very interesting article. Thanks for sharing!

Yes, lots of information that we either know already, or complain about a lot. I liked the comment on C class service. But interesting insight and especially analysis nonetheless.

I really don't know what the future holds for LY, but I'm nervous for them.

If ELAL had some brain, it would know it needed a major refurbishment of its hard and soft products.

Their prices are often substantially higher than competitors on the same route, and there just arent enough ultra-orthodox Jews who fly ElAl only (since they dont operate on the Sabbath) to fill their planes.

They should consider flying to Buenos Aires. They should consider bringing back Miami (and perhaps Chicago).

Perhaps most important of all, they need to consider joining a global alliance.

If ELAL had some brain, it would know it needed a major refurbishment of its hard and soft products.

Preaching to the choir

Their prices are often substantially higher than competitors on the same route

Preaching to the choir

and there just arent enough ultra-orthodox Jews who fly ElAl only (since they dont operate on the Sabbath) to fill their planes.

It's a LOT more than simply the ultra-Orthodox sector who flies LY

They should consider flying to Buenos Aires.

If GRU failed, I don't see this succeeding

They should consider bringing back Miami (and perhaps Chicago).

Apparently, MIA was one of their most profitable routes. They have stated internally intentions to bring both back.

Perhaps most important of all, they need to consider joining a global alliance.

EL AL hired someone recently who ended up, after much research, telling them they can't join an alliance. Just not feasible (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/el-al-matmid/1226334-malaysia-airlines-join-oneworld-does-signal-el-al-will-not-join-ow.html#post17420967)

If GRU failed, I don't see this succeeding

Apparently, MIA was one of their most profitable routes. They have stated internally intentions to bring both back.

EL AL hired someone recently who ended up, after much research, telling them they can't join an alliance. Just no feasible (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/el-al-matmid/1226334-malaysia-airlines-join-oneworld-does-signal-el-al-will-not-join-ow.html#post17420967)

Buenos Aires has such a large Jewish population, I think it would be a lot more successful that GRU.

Heck, even Mexico City is worth a shot, not only lots of orthodox Jews, but also very observant Chrisitian community, and certainly a large enough population to fill out some planes...

Interesting thread about alliances.

I do not know how much O&D is there in chicago, but I would not be surprised if it would be at the best case scnario less than a 100 a day or 700 a week. If EL AL captures 50% of that, then you are talking about best case of 350 passengers. 4 flights a week to offer competitive schedule for the business passenger is about 80-90 a day. Not enought to make it a viable non stop. Chicago might work as seasonal in the summer for sure, but not year round.

Do not know how many additional customers EL AL can route via code sharing with American to O'Hare. If Delta failed with a superior product via Atlanta to Tel-Aviv, which as a connection point I would choose any day over O'Hare, I do not see EL AL succeeding here.

Maybe if they had 787 ? I would love non stop from Chicago. But this will not happen anytime soon. Maybe Miami. It is a larger community there and a larger O&D portion.

Airlines today are much more strict about their criteria to open a route. Sao Paulo seemed like a good idea. Why did they cancel the route in the winter (summer time in Brazil), when the travel to south America picks up. (Carnival)


Erez

Buenos Aires has such a large Jewish population, I think it would be a lot more successful that GRU.

Heck, even Mexico City is worth a shot, not only lots of orthodox Jews, but also very observant Chrisitian community, and certainly a large enough population to fill out some planes...

Interesting thread about alliances.

It's not only about the size of the Jewish community, though if I'm not mistaken, the Jewish population in Brazil is significantly larger.

I do not know how much O&D is there in chicago, but I would not be surprised if it would be at the best case scnario less than a 100 a day or 700 a week. If EL AL captures 50% of that, then you are talking about best case of 350 passengers. 4 flights a week to offer competitive schedule for the business passenger is about 80-90 a day. Not enought to make it a viable non stop. Chicago might work as seasonal in the summer for sure, but not year round.

Do not know how many additional customers EL AL can route via code sharing with American to O'Hare. If Delta failed with a superior product via Atlanta to Tel-Aviv, which as a connection point I would choose any day over O'Hare, I do not see EL AL succeeding here.

Maybe if they had 787 ? I would love non stop from Chicago. But this will not happen anytime soon. Maybe Miami. It is a larger community there and a larger O&D portion.

Airlines today are much more strict about their criteria to open a route. Sao Paulo seemed like a good idea. Why did they cancel the route in the winter (summer time in Brazil), when the travel to south America picks up. (Carnival)


Erez

Who would they code-share with? ORD could become another connecting hub for connecting pax between LY and AA.

Miami-Tel Aviv is the single largest local market between a pair of cities in the Americas and Europe/Africa/Middle East without non-stop service. It's too bad El Al continues to be banned from adding new routes to the U.S. under Israel's category II rating.

Miami-Tel Aviv is the single largest local market between a pair of cities in the Americas and Europe/Africa/Middle East without non-stop service.

How do you figure?

It's too bad El Al continues to be banned from adding new routes to the U.S. under Israel's category II rating.

Are they actually banned? I didn't realize that. You have a source?

And that category 2 rating is absolutely ridiculous. There's no reason for it at all

How do you figure?



Are they actually banned? I didn't realize that. You have a source?

And that category 2 rating is absolutely ridiculous. There's no reason for it at all


Yes, El Al and any Israeli airline is unable to open new routes to the US because of the Category II classification.

No reason for it at all?! Ha ha very funnny..... I suggest you make a limited research on the inet and you will realize that there are indeed a multitude of reasons why Israel is in FAA's shameful Category II. The reasons btw are not in El Al's sphere of competence but they are among the casualties....

How do you figure?

I have access to traffic figures.


Are they actually banned? I didn't realize that. You have a source?

And that category 2 rating is absolutely ridiculous. There's no reason for it at all

Yes, they are banned. The source? The rules of a category II rating by the FAA: no new routes to the U.S. that were not operated at the time of the downgrade.

No reason for it at all?! Ha ha very funnny..... I suggest you make a limited research on the inet and you will realize that there are indeed a multitude of reasons why Israel is in FAA's shameful Category II. The reasons btw are not in El Al's sphere of competence but they are among the casualties....

Care to share what you consider some of the multitude of reasons?

If this is any indications, U.S. ranks Israel air safety in category 2 for second year in a row (http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/u-s-ranks-israel-air-safety-in-category-2-for-second-year-in-a-row-1.312565), then I say once again, it's bogus. Nigeria scored highest in the ratings, receiving a category 1 status. Seriously, Nigeria got Cat 1, and Israel has issues?

I have access to traffic figures.

What makes this bigger than Chicago-Tel Aviv? (Chicago is bigger than Miami, after all)

Care to share what you consider some of the multitude of reasons?

Is the Wall Street Journal (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122836333376578741.html) authoritative enough for you?Prompted by concerns about lax government oversight and a shortage of Israeli inspectors to oversee carriers...

<snip>

The FAA's rankings aren't intended to gauge airline safety systems or procedures. Instead, they are focused on the adequacy of laws, regulations and day-to-day oversight of carrier operations by a specific government. If a country is placed into Category 2 under the FAA's rules, its airlines effectively are blocked from expanding services to and from the U.S.

<snip>

The reports, according to industry and International Civil Aviation Organization officials, cite shortages of inspectors and other supervisory personnel. Israel's regulatory structure and supervision of airport operations also need to be improved and updated, according to the aviation organization's findings.

In the last couple of years, how many near misses occurred at Lagos and how many at Tel Aviv?

Care to share what you consider some of the multitude of reasons?

If this is any indications, U.S. ranks Israel air safety in category 2 for second year in a row (http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/u-s-ranks-israel-air-safety-in-category-2-for-second-year-in-a-row-1.312565), then I say once again, it's bogus. Seriously, Nigeria got Cat 1, and Israel has issues?



What makes this bigger than Chicago-Tel Aviv? (Chicago is bigger than Miami, after all)

So what if Chicago is bigger? MIATLV local market is 2x larger than CHITLV. Miamimis a bigger market than Chicago to just about every major city in western Europe except LON, BRU and MUC.

So what if Chicago is bigger? MIATLV local market is 2x larger than CHITLV. Miamimis a bigger market than Chicago to just about every major city in western Europe except LON, BRU and MUC.
As well as the fact that they can use Miami as a feeder for passengers from Central and South America

shocked that they dont have flights from MIA..
suprised that folks are advocating ORD....I dont really see it in terms of numbers vs MIA.

Their pricing seems off for their product/service. Additionally, rather than charging for 2nd bag in Y, they should have just left it... being the differential amoung the airlines that fly into TLV. Charging more for flights, while reducing staff and baggage, is not going to draw in the numbers that they need to make it happen.

I worry that EL Al is running out of cash and options.

The challenges El Al fasces are of one of politics and geography.

Gepgraphy, in that Israel in a small country with one real port of entry, and that it is too far east in the mediterranean to act as an effective hub the way LHR, FRA, or AMS does.

Politics, both internal and external, inhibit growth. Also, Israel has a strong union tradition, that inhibit aggressive cost control the way the arab/asian carriers do with outsourcing and low wage labor contracts.

The model of serving point to point within europe and long haul to select destinations is costly and inefficient. Joining an alliance should have been a foregone conclusion to assist with feed from the USA and other european markets.