All Nippon Airways Mileage Club - NH C->F and Y->C Upgrade Clearing Windows

Can you folks kindly comment on your experiences with upgrades clearing from C to F or Y to C on NH international flights into NRT? I'm personally interested in ex-SFO, but it'd be good to get an idea of the upgrade windows in general from NA and Europe.

So assuming you're using upgrade points or miles as the instrument, buying into Y or C and putting in your upgrade request at time of booking or sometime shortly thereafter, how far out from your flight have you typically seen upgrades clearing?

My experiences thus far:

C->F:
ex-SFO - 2 weeks
ex-CDG - 3 weeks

Y->C:
ex-PVG - at booking
ex-TPE - at ticket counter upon check-in

Can you folks kindly comment on your experiences with upgrades clearing from C to F or Y to C on NH international flights into NRT?

Are you asking from the perspective of an NH BRZ, PLT, or DIA, or non-NH *G?

My F square transpacs in Dec cleared at booking.

Are you asking from the perspective of an NH BRZ, PLT, or DIA, or non-NH *G?

I'm curious about the answer to the above with respect to a non-NH *G using UA or OZ miles from C to F. Thanks.

Are you asking from the perspective of an NH BRZ, PLT, or DIA, or non-NH *G?

Good point. As my profile says, I'm an NH Platinum, and generally using my AMC number when traveling on NH (sometimes using my MP when I need UA miles). Re the upgrades, I think we are all curious for the various scenarios so good to confirm your status when relaying experiences. All of mine above were as an NH Platinum.

I cleared C->F on NRT-IAD in April 2011 about 10 days out as a PLT. My flight was on a Wednesday, which might have helped.

How is everyone doing their UGs. I fly mostly UA and use a combination of SWU, miles/cash, and just cash. What is the best most reliable way to do this on ANA.

How is everyone doing their UGs. I fly mostly UA and use a combination of SWU, miles/cash, and just cash. What is the best most reliable way to do this on ANA.

There are miles, and there are upgrade points. They are both valid for the same fares. That's it -- no cash.

There are miles, and there are upgrade points. They are both valid for the same fares. That's it -- no cash.

Does NH describe their upgrade priority rules for elite status, fare, time of upgrade request, etc like UA does?

I assume all other things equal that miles and upgrade points are equivalent in terms of upgrade "priority"?

Finally, it seems since UA international F rarely flies with empty seats that they will always clear instrument supported upgrades, even if at the gate, if empty seats remain. I'm guessing this is not the case with NH... So that begs the question of where they draw the line if folks are on the wait list but never make it and half or more of the F cabin remains empty..

1) No guessing needed. NH will fly with empty seats up front.
2) I get the impression that they will not leave an AMC Member on the WL if a seat is not occupied.
3) I think the cost of C-F upgrade with points basically is self-selective. People just don't have the points. As a 100k Diamond you get enough for 2. Why am I going to requal again?
4) Do you want an F upgrade RT or a $500+ award.
5) Paying up to a Z also requires a corporate expense account for 99% ;) of the people.
6) I know 1 person upgraded at checking the other day, but I don't think they were on a list. I could have if my fare had been eligible.
7) Meals play a factor. If they order F meals for 2 confirmed pax the previous day, they will not fill the cabin with day of departure upgrades. Sure maybe 1 or 2 but not 6.

Just some thoughts.

-Scho

[QUOTE=ainternational;17533240]Does NH describe their upgrade priority rules for elite status, fare, time of upgrade request, etc like UA does?
[QUOTE]

I do not think NH describes their upgrade priority rules.
From my experiences, basic rule is first come first basis when an upgrade is available.
When it comes to wait listing, a upper level elite has a priority and can jump in the queue.

7) Meals play a factor. If they order F meals for 2 confirmed pax the previous day, they will not fill the cabin with day of departure upgrades. Sure maybe 1 or 2 but not 6.

I don't think enough people take this seriously. Currently I am booked on an NH flight for next year and I am the only one in F. They will order one Japanese and one Western menu for me -- that's a guarantee. However, said food orders have to go in 24+ hours in advance. They can't simply upgrade a WL pax at the gate or in the hours leading up. There's a lot more prep work that goes into assuring a F pax gets the full experience they're paying/using miles for. So yes, NH will fly with empty seats in F rather than appeasing a *A pax with fingers crossed.

3) I think the cost of C-F upgrade with points basically is self-selective. People just don't have the points. As a 100k Diamond you get enough for 2. Why am I going to requal again?

I'm beginning to agree with this. I just made DIA for 2012, and I'm not really sure it was worth it -- even though I live in Japan, which means I can enjoy some of the benefits of DIA (use of the Suite Lounges, good e-coupon transfer rates, etc.) more than overseas-based DIAs. The upgrade point scheme is really poor considering the limited number of fares you can use it on (and the high cost of the ones you can), and it's been annoying since NH introduced the P non-upgradeable business class fare for many of the cheaper ex-Asia itineraries.

I guess I'll have to see my waitlist priority really works, or if there are any other unwritten benefits to being a DIA. If not I may just switch over to JL and see how they treat their top-level elites...

C to F using points just cleared 2.5 weeks out, booked about 1.5 weeks ago. NRT->SFO as a Platinum on a Z fare.

I guess I'll have to see my waitlist priority really works, or if there are any other unwritten benefits to being a DIA. If not I may just switch over to JL and see how they treat their top-level elites...

You will clear.
Make sure to fly 110k to get that 3rd upgrade if you can.
I will hit 100k on Dec 31. 110k not possible this year.

Diamond clearing datapoints for me today!
Slightly OT because Domestic.

Visit Japan fare bucket was not avail my flight today.
I waitlised for tht flight and advised I would purchase at airport on departure.
Fare bucket opened 5 days ahead of US departure. I got my seat.
But we are having a Mechanical now.

Arrived HND 1 hour early. Premium was full.
Waitlisted for upgrade, I was slotted into group A and was assigned a number. Not sure who qualified for group A. Cleared at departure gate.

Sounds like we're fixed and will fly in 2-3 min.
Let's hope that engine works!

-Scho

Another 10k is out of the question in December, unfortunately. My weekends are booked solid and fares are too high for a SIN touch...

Congrats on the F upgrade! I'm usually on HND-ITM so it doesn't make much sense for me to upgrade even if I did clear :-(

Well I upgrade (with cash) for the bonus points regardless of the route. I will requal on Dec 31, cannot leave anything on the table at this stage.

Booked and cleared at booking C to F Transpac upgrade with Miles. Depart within 14 days of booking.

---------------

Booked/waitlisted an RT F transpac award for a weekend in Jan. Booking made about 45 days in advance. Still waitlisted. Recently added C award wait-listing as well.

I'm confident. Stuff always clears right after the ticketing deadline. Haha.
I think I need to pay the F rate to keep that WL option alive until departure. Otherwise, I'm stuck in C if I tell them to issue at the C rate. I could issue, cancel, refund, and reissue if things open up too.

In a perfect world on a fixed trip like this, I burn US miles, but when things are tight, the NH DIA status gets you where you need to go when you need to get there.

-Scho

Unceremoniously dumped by the computer.

I had been WL'd I'm F and C on for about 3 weeks.
The waitlisting period at 7:00 today.
I was never contacted by NH this morning before the PNR vaporized by the system.
Kicked to the curb this Diamond was. ;)

I could have purchased the award ticket and stayed on the list, and really likely cleared. I even can book a confirm able award and get back on the list I think as a date change I think.

Fortunately, for about $300 less than the taxes on the above, I cobbled together a C Itin using US miles. It gets me where I need to go and when I need to be there. If revenue I'd be more excited about the connections each way but it's a burn-style personal trip. I can change it if the nonstops open for $150! Add that in and it's till cheaper than an NH C Award!!! Heck. I could change twice and break even.

-Scho

Unceremoniously dumped by the computer.

I had been WL'd I'm F and C on for about 6 weeks.
The waitlisting period ended at 7:00 today.
I was never contacted by NH this morning before the PNR was vaporized by the system. Nobody cared except me, kinda.
Kicked to the curb this Diamond was. ;)

I could have purchased the award ticket and stayed on the list, and really likely cleared. I even can book a confirmable award and get back on the list I think as a date change I think. The point is I need to issue the ticket.

Fortunately, for about $300 less than the taxes on the above, I cobbled together a C Itin using US miles. It gets me where I need to go and when I need to be there. If revenue I'd be more excited about the connections each way but it's a burn-style personal trip. I can change it if the nonstops open for $150! Add that in and it's till cheaper than an NH C Award!!! Heck. I could change twice and break even.

I do want F nonstop. Maybe I should try just for the entertainment value. Or I could use the savings and fly the Dreamliner.

-Scho

Entertainment value time!!!

Issued the award and am back on the WL for both transpacs.
US award confirmed and issued as well. I need to fly to catch to the Dreamliner the next day.
I'll clear, but it not so nice that they make me jump through these hoops, and issue tickets on other carriers as an insurance policy.

-Scho

As expected I cleared.
I got a call this morning from The Desk.
Fortunately they had the foresight to release my return as well.
Who knows, maybe they didn't clear the outbound until today.
I got the call essentially 72 hours prior to departure.

I will admit I was beginning to lose a little faith.
I had a very strong conviction that I would clear going in, but it was getting late in the game. I thought right after the 14 day window I'd clear. Then I thought 10, 7... Going into last weekend I was thinking TYO Friday, TYO Monday. Last night I was asking myself if they would open an award seat or not. I was resigned to the idea of 4 segment Dom-F / Intl-C RT on UA metal and had sold myself on the idea that the back plan was less expensive in cash and miles.

One again to be clear this was not an upgrade, it was WL for an award. This thread has turned to more of a WL thread than an upgrade WL thread.

-Schoflyer

So what's your consensus on the very latest they release WL? Was T-72 the closest to your dep to date? Or has it been all over the map? My company is paying for the flights right now so I'm just accumulating in F. It'll be another month or two before I start collecting on the awards. Just curious about the time-frame.

T-72 was the latest I've ever had.

I was waitlisted a few years ago NRT-JFK C to F as a mere Bronze, did not clear even when I checked in despite quite a few seats open. Went to the lounge in the No. 5 Satellite (where the gate numbers are in the 50s), and when I came out to board, asked once again at the ANA info kiosk aat the bottom of the escalator. I was told to wait a second, then got seat 2A. Therefore, say T-20 minutes was the latest for me. Almost all my others have been about a week.

Latest experience for NRT-LHR is booking made 8 days prior to flight, C to F cleared at T-4 days.

Some additional datapoints:

As a Platinum:

Q4 2012 - Z fare to F on NH 7/8, clearing windows ranged 1-4 weeks out
Q4 2012 - Discount Y to F on HND/TSA, clearing windows ranged 1-2 weeks out
Q3 2012 - Z fare to F on NH 7/8, clearing windows ranged 1-2 weeks out

As a Platinum I had a 100% success rate with Z to F and Y to C in 2012, 106K BIS.

As a Diamond:

Q1 2014 - Z fare to F on NH 7/8, clearing window ranged from time of booking (4 weeks out) to 2 weeks out

I have yet to fly the new TPAC C product given the 100% upgrade success.

I've actually made all of my international upgrades as well since making DIA, whether from Y to C or from C to F. (The Y->C upgrade that didn't clear until the gate in Singapore was a bit annoying...)

My first Y->C upgrade of 2013 (TSA-HND) also cleared at booking.

I'd appreciate the perspective of some of the more experienced Diamonds on my recent upgrade, or lack of upgrade, experience. I live in Shanghai the better part of the time and I normally fly back to the US (always ORD) on ANA. ANA offers a $5000 C-class RT fare PVG-ORD fare. The only catch is flying to ORD you have to overnight at NRT. Maybe the other catch on this route is it's impossible to upgrade. There is no Prem Economy fare for this route and if you purchase an upgradeable economy fare in Tokyo you'll often spend more than just buying the ex-China business fare. The ex-China fare can't be upgraded to first so my upgrade points are bordering on worthless for me.

That being the case, to try to get some use out of my UP and save some money I pushed out an already booked ORD>PVG return leg and bought a PremY RT ORD>PVG. I paid $3100. I purchased the ticket Jan 3rd, departing ORD Jan 17th, and returning ,i.e., departing PVG 3/2, departing NRT 3/3,/13, a Sunday.

Initial leg from ORD to NRT cleared in a few days, in part because I booked via the DIA desk and selected the flight most likely to upgrade, which meant choosing the old configuration plane. Return NRT>ORD never cleared, so I flew back in PE, which turned out to be the worst flight experience I have ever had on ANA. (There were only 4 FA's for all of economy, vs. 7 FAs for C-class, but that's another story. For the record I have been a fan of ANA PE in the past and often fly coach PVG and SHA to Tokyo.)

So, to sum up, how common is it to book two months out as a DIA and not get upgraded? Qualifying circumstances might include that it was a Sunday flight and probably always in demand. I checked the night before from my hotel at NRT and ANA still had available for sale 2 tickets, at $12,660 each, so presuming they were purchased ANA made a good decision in that respect. In any case C checked in full.

So, to sum up, how common is it to book two months out as a DIA and not get upgraded? Qualifying circumstances might include that it was a Sunday flight and probably always in demand. I checked the night before from my hotel at NRT and ANA still had available for sale 2 tickets, at $12,660 each, so presuming they were purchased ANA made a good decision in that respect. In any case C checked in full.

It's not that uncommon, actually -- I've had to wait until 2 weeks before departure for a C to F upgrade, and I had a Y to C upgrade from SIN clear at the gate.

Thanks for your reply. The key variable though is that you did get your upgrades, whereas I didn't. I was a UA 1K for several years and one of the reasons I left was that it seemed that UA's whole upgrade lottery system had gotten out of hand. Now I'm finding that on NH, even with a top-price Y ticket, two-month booking and DIA status I'm getting a 50% success rate, though admittedly on a very small sample, and not many options to even try to use UP. I think my mistake was taking a flight departing Tokyo for the US on a Sunday. I'm hoping that if and when NH adds the second ORD flight everybody's odds will significantly improve.

Thanks for your reply. The key variable though is that you did get your upgrades, whereas I didn't. I was a UA 1K for several years and one of the reasons I left was that it seemed that UA's whole upgrade lottery system had gotten out of hand. Now I'm finding that on NH, even with a top-price Y ticket, two-month booking and DIA status I'm getting a 50% success rate, though admittedly on a very small sample, and not many options to even try to use UP. I think my mistake was taking a flight departing Tokyo for the US on a Sunday. I'm hoping that if and when NH adds the second ORD flight everybody's odds will significantly improve.

Totally agree with UA. I'm done with that lottery system - period.

And just to add some more color on my previous post, I'm still 100% on my upgrades as a Diamond; my sample size out of 100% total samples is:

90% C to F on TPAC flights booked in Z (upgradable on NH)
10% Y to C on intra Asia flights booked in "upgradable" fare classes

Used miles in some cases, points in others - the experience didn't seem to vary in terms of upgrade clearance or timing. In almost all cases, upgrades cleared 1-2 weeks out, sometimes as long as 4+ weeks out. Only once at booking and even the CSR on the phone seemed shocked. That was a C to F TPAC.