SkyTeam - New whacky route!

China Southern has just launched Istanbul-Urumqi-Beijing three times a week!!

That is an interesting one. On a 757 at nearly 3,000 miles. What's their biz service like?

And, because of the bizarro China time zones (the whole country is the same zone) it leaves IST at 01:00 and arrives in URC at 13:15, with the return leaving URC at 11:05 and arriving in IST at 11:59.

I would've expected the fares to be pretty low (CZ is often a very low price from DXB), but they're not great, at least on some random dates that I checked. I am also a bit surprised that TK doesn't serve that route, given the regional ties.

P.S. EgyptAir has IST-CAI-PEK for $1,863 round-trip, though it's with the lousy old A330s and not the decent (at least according to reports here) B777 on the PEK segments.

The route in question was discussed several months back here in one of the other forums. I don't think it's all that whacky. CZ took over Xinjiang Airlines a few years back and, consequently, has a pretty strong operation in Wulumuqi. In fact, I dare say that URC is the closest airport to a "hub" in the western sense (i.e. people arrive on one flight and transfer to another) in all of China.

For those of you that are familiar with airports in 2nd tier Chinese markets (e.g. Xi'an, Jinan, Lanzhou, Shenyang, Zhengzhou, Changsha), URC is par for the course: reasonably modern, far more efficient and less delay prone than PEK/PVG, and spartan with respect to facilities.

The short of it is that they're only offering ~600 seats per week in each direction. Assuming (conservatively) that TK is delivering 600 O&D pax between PEK and IST per week (each direction), and CZ snags 1/4 of this market by undercutting TK as much as it deems necessary, we're looking at 450 left to sell. Throw in another 100 for the URC-IST market (including connections beyond), a mere 33 pax per flight, and we're down to 350. Next, add in: 20 pax/flight from SHA, CAN, SZX; 5 pax per flight from XIY, NKG, CTU, CKG, KMG; 2 pax per flight from 5 other lesser markets = 285. ---> 65 remaining per week or 22 per flight, which they can presumably unload in a manner that doesn't cannibalize the aforementioned market segments.

RT Biz fare IST-PEK-IST can at most times be had for about 1500-1800 EUR with TK or as a codeshare. Fares can regularlyhad with EK, EY, QR in the 1500 EUR range and One can fly with Aeroflot regularly for as little as 1300 EUR, so I would be curious to see where CZ will set the "floor" if they are trying to undercut on the route. Should also be mentioned that they are flying it with an A330 and not a 757.

I do know that Urumqi is a "hub" based on looking at CZ's route map over the years, but I would have thought that there were other routes that could be more promising than this one........

.....or is this just an international version of USA Southwest Airlines routings, such as HOU-OKC-LAX* with some medium size city as an intermediate stop to keep the plane filled?????? While Urumqi has the Silk Route history, at least OKC was on fabled US Route 66......

(*just a hypothetical example of the many 1-stop Southwest flights that land in a medium-sized city between two large cities.

Yes except the distance Istanbul-Urumqi is 2-3 times the length of Southwest's longest route, and Urumqi-Beijing on its own id probably a greater distance on its own than any Southwest segment.

Yes except the distance Istanbul-Urumqi is 2-3 times the length of Southwest's longest route, and Urumqi-Beijing on its own id probably a greater distance on its own than any Southwest segment.

1500 miles; WN has many routes longer than that.

Regarding your previous post, please note that there are already flights between URC and a handful of Mid East markets that are significantly smaller than IST... close cultural and economic ties.

RT Biz fare IST-PEK-IST can at most times be had for about 1500-1800 EUR with TK or as a codeshare. Fares can regularlyhad with EK, EY, QR in the 1500 EUR range and One can fly with Aeroflot regularly for as little as 1300 EUR, so I would be curious to see where CZ will set the "floor" if they are trying to undercut on the route. Should also be mentioned that they are flying it with an A330 and not a 757.

The timetable on the SkyTeam web-site shows a 757-200 as far into the future as it's published, for both segments. (I also did a dummy booking on a few random dates and got the same result.) Is this incorrect?

The timetable is strange. For example, the week of 03/07/12, CZ 6903 from URC-PEK, departing at 14:35 and arriving at 18:10, seven days per week, is listed as 333; whereas CZ 680 from IST-PEK, departing 01:00 and arriving at 18:10, three days per week, is listed as 752. So either these are not the same flights, or else it is an aircraft switch in URC, and/or the timetable is wrong, which wouldn't be surprising. (Also, the return PEK-URC at 17:20, which is the same flight as PEK-IST, is listed as 752 all seven days per week.)

.....or is this just an international version of USA Southwest Airlines routings, such as HOU-OKC-LAX* with some medium size city as an intermediate stop to keep the plane filled?????? While Urumqi has the Silk Route history, at least OKC was on fabled US Route 66......

(*just a hypothetical example of the many 1-stop Southwest flights that land in a medium-sized city between two large cities.

Of course URC is a hub, so IST-URC-PEK is moot in some sense. CZ has multiple daily flights URC-PEK, but IST-URC-PEK is marketed as one through flight number (CZ679, CZ680). As stated above, it's hard to tell whether it's really a direct flight -- would one have to get off the plane, go through immigration, and re-check luggage at URC?

would one have to get off the plane, go through immigration, and re-check luggage at URC?

Luggage can be through checked, but need to clear border control in Wulumuqi (similar to Dalian and Xiamen). Very painless.

Yes SW does have a few flights of 1500 miles, but very few and very recent, sorta goes against their whole model as that length is at the end of their models viability. Regarding a/c type, I was told that the flights out of IST this week were on A330's so that is what I based it on, I have no idea what they will be going forward.

Yes SW does have a few flights of 1500 miles, but very few and very recent, sorta goes against their whole model as that length is at the end of their models viability.


MDW to pretty anywhere west of LAS (a dozens cities with 2-3 frequencies each) <1500. From BWI, DEN and west does the trick.


Regarding a/c type, I was told that the flights out of IST this week were on A330's so that is what I based it on, I have no idea what they will be going forward.


757, departs Tu, F, Su; $700 RT on Orbitz (a bit more than SU via Moscow); 1.5 hours on the ground in URC in each direction.