Aegean Airlines Miles&Bonus - The new A3 board and the M&B programme - initial discussions

Well for one there are many flying classes that A3 does not offer any miles for, where you do get some with M&M, so in such case I definitely collect miles on M&M whilst using the A3 gold card. This should not cost them anything.

Also, A3 still seems unable to credit many BLUE1 flights properly; I (again) have an outstanding request for a flight I took on August 30 from ZRH to HEL in C, and they do not answer my mails nor do they credit my miles. So-far they never managed to credit ZRH - HEL flights correctly, it always takes months and I have other things to do than to chase them for it so I currently also credit miles for BLUE1 flights on M&M whilst using the A3 gold card. Each time my flight gets credited I try again and each time it goes wrong again.

Yep, both Blue1 and Spanair have lots of trouble crediting ANYWHERE. I never got them to credit to my US account either. So not crediting to A3 isn't a surprise...

Thanks to those who encouraged TalkBoard to vote for the creation of an Aegean Airlines forum, thank you to PVDtoDEL in particular for starting the ball rolling, and I am sure many of us will be glad to see GoldCircle, who we know from the BMI board, as Moderator. Splitting the mega-thread is a mammoth task - kudos to GoldCircle for taking this on.

There has been some confusion about how the M&B programme works, but I am sure that with the mega-thread split, and hopefully a FAQ section, clear information can be provided to visitors to the forum.

I'm interested in how many contributors to the forum have flown on A3 and how many are international members from outside Greece - I haven't flown on A3 yet but am looking forward to the experience.

I hope A3 will engage with this board and take feedback on the development of the M&B programme from it in the way that other airlines do. I've been impressed with the changes to the programme in the last year, such as the introduction of one-way award flights.

The things I most would like A3 to consider are:
- Ability to change award bookings without forfeiting miles
- Online award bookings (including *A partners)
- Miles earning credit cards based in UK/US/other countries
- Participation in Star Alliance Upgrade Awards
- Participation in Star Alliance Company Plus
- Family membership miles transfer

What changes or developments to the M&B programme would other members like to see?

I would like to echo your appreciation for the extraordinary effort that people have and will invest in this board.

I would like A3 to look into *A awards that are allowed more than one connection, and fall into either a MPM range or published routing for a given mileage charge (if that makes sense!)

Thanks indeed to PVDtoDEL and the many others who pushed for this. ^

wyvern, You wouldn't believe the work involved in manually splitting a mega-thread like that - it's gonna take weeks... but the existing threads from the OEFFP forum are here now and have been re-title, split, merged, extinguished etc. - and this is a good platform to deliver to from the mega-thread.

The few remaining threads from *A will come across this weekend.

We may as well name the elephant in the room: if too many people, particularly following US blogs, pick up on the really low threshold for *S (free baggage) and, more importantly, *G (lounge access) then the programme will hike its values and kill the golden goose. There's one such blog on linked the A3 board already - and a quick google reveals half a dozen more without difficulty. And if anyone thinks that A3 are not already reading this forum and those blogs - they are absolutely wrong. (Before anyone even thinks it, it's not a Mod's job to censor such stuff from this board. Mods are only here to enforce the ToS and as long as the posts are on topic, the links will stand.)

If A3 has done its homework - and the programme changes we have already seen this year suggest that they absolutely have - then they will continue making changes to maximise their income from all sorts of activities. Hopefully, they will be able to control the growth of the programme and leverage the yield so that the cost of the 'maximisers' can be absorbed without distorting the programme.

I'd like to see the redemption table made better value, especially where connections come in. If you live at a third point, you'll understand what I mean. BD's zone based approach alleviates some of this.

So Thank Yous.

Firstly, I'd like to thank SkiAdcock, for compiling a novel, which very probably is what swayed more than a few votes.
Secondly, I'd like to thank GoldCircle, for writing some very well articulated posts on exactly why we should have an A3 forum, and then kindly agreeing to moderate the forum and split the megathread.
Thirdly, I'd like to thank all of you guys for your support of the proposal.
Fourthly, I'd like to thank the TalkBoard, for finally seeing the light and creating this forum for us.


Now, regarding the M&B program and possible changes: I am inclined to think that they won't happen. A3 has taken an extremely interesting approach to the "Easy *G" crowd, with their requirement that people credit to them. I don't know much about the way miles work financially, but maybe they can make this work for them. Obviously, it's a very delicate balance between earning $$ from crediting miles and spending miles.

While A3 seems to have done their homework, it doesn't seem as though they understood it all. Their rules are convoluted and make absolutely no sense at all. It will be interesting to see how the program matures over time.

I'm probably one of the few that have flown A3, and I can say that Mrs. and I were pleasantly surprised. Their planes are in spectacular condition and the service was miles above the average NA service.

As for the program, I've considered it but it's poor spending rules have kept me away. Being based in Canada, AC's requirement of 35K for *G is low enough and comes with enough added benefits (u/g, RDM bonus, etc...) to keep me for now. However, A3 seems like a great extra program for USA based *A members whose programs have decide to cheap out and grant *G lite, or for those who wouldn't otherwise hit status with another airline.

As for the economics of being the cheap *G airline, the earn/burn ratio should be profitable for them, but I think the $20 (or whatever) they get charged every time someone enters a lounge is going to result in changes sooner rather than later.

Hurray!

Great to see the A3 forum. I'll surely be benefiting from it with the expected DC demise.
Thanks for the push PVDtoDEL and getting the troops together.
Good luck to GoldCircle (gasp, not A3 *G yet? :D)

My wishes. Swiss based Credit Card. Cash and miles a la DC.

GBM

Good luck to GoldCircle (gasp, not A3 *G yet? :D)


Nope. Not yet. Just been topping off my BD*G for fear of losing out on something undefined.

A week in January could sort it out though. :D

http://en.aegeanair.com/Themes/1/Default/Media/miles/skytrax_en.png

http://en.aegeanair.com/Themes/1/Default/Media/miles/skytrax_en.png

The 'theme' image in the above post doesn't seem to work.

http://en.aegeanair.com/Themes/1/Default/Media/miles/skytrax_en.pn

Thanks GoldCircle for volunteering to work out how to turn the megathread into the first-draft bones of this place.Thanks indeed to PVDtoDEL and the many others who pushed for this. ^

wyvern, You wouldn't believe the work involved in manually splitting a mega-thread like that - it's gonna take weeks... but the existing threads from the OEFFP forum are here now and have been re-title, split, merged, extinguished etc. - and this is a good platform to deliver to from the mega-thread.

The few remaining threads from *A will come across this weekend.

We may as well name the elephant in the room: if too many people, particularly following US blogs, pick up on the really low threshold for *S (free baggage) and, more importantly, *G (lounge access) then the programme will hike its values and kill the golden goose. There's one such blog on linked the A3 board already - and a quick google reveals half a dozen more without difficulty. And if anyone thinks that A3 are not already reading this forum and those blogs - they are absolutely wrong. (Before anyone even thinks it, it's not a Mod's job to censor such stuff from this board. Mods are only here to enforce the ToS and as long as the posts are on topic, the links will stand.)

If A3 has done its homework - and the programme changes we have already seen this year suggest that they absolutely have - then they will continue making changes to maximise their income from all sorts of activities. Hopefully, they will be able to control the growth of the programme and leverage the yield so that the cost of the 'maximisers' can be absorbed without distorting the programme.

I'd like to see the redemption table made better value, especially where connections come in. If you live at a third point, you'll understand what I mean. BD's zone based approach alleviates some of this.

Hopeful that airlines like A3 can survive the Eurozone crisis and offer a nice and useful *G status threshold and some routes that make earning and burning both worthwhile on the airline.

So Thank Yous.

Firstly, I'd like to thank SkiAdcock, for compiling a novel, which very probably is what swayed more than a few votes.
Secondly, I'd like to thank GoldCircle, for writing some very well articulated posts on exactly why we should have an A3 forum, and then kindly agreeing to moderate the forum and split the megathread.
Thirdly, I'd like to thank all of you guys for your support of the proposal.
Fourthly, I'd like to thank the TalkBoard, for finally seeing the light and creating this forum for us.


Now, regarding the M&B program and possible changes: I am inclined to think that they won't happen. A3 has taken an extremely interesting approach to the "Easy *G" crowd, with their requirement that people credit to them. I don't know much about the way miles work financially, but maybe they can make this work for them. Obviously, it's a very delicate balance between earning $$ from crediting miles and spending miles.

While A3 seems to have done their homework, it doesn't seem as though they understood it all. Their rules are convoluted and make absolutely no sense at all. It will be interesting to see how the program matures over time.

Thanks PVDtoDEL for your support for requesting this forum!
Having a forum will at the least make FT a more useful magnet for 'Easy *G' aspirants and for those who are interested enough to want to try the airline and FFP, rather than just get the gold card.

The forum is looking good already. Welcome!

I'd just like to add my thanks to GoldCircle for agreeing to moderate this exciting new place and mostly for splitting the big thread. That's a major task, but one that so many are going to find really helpful in future. Despite what the naysayers claimed, there are diverse topics that have been discussed and will continue to be discussed about A3 and M&B.

I'd also like to restate my thanks to PVDtoDEL for pushing for this forum - we'd still be languishing in the megathread otherwise - rather than at the top of airline programme list where A3 is now!:p

A3 has taken an extremely interesting approach to the "Easy *G" crowd, with their requirement that people credit to them. I don't know much about the way miles work financially, but maybe they can make this work for them. Obviously, it's a very delicate balance between earning $$ from crediting miles and spending miles.


I wonder if the the crowd "sacrificing" 20K miles for *G will actually ever end up redeeming them, if they don't build up enough. It then becomes pure profit for A3 (although the financial liability hanging over A3 if they don't expire might be scary if a lot of people do this). The sacrificers might become profitable customers for M&B and so may well cover any outgoings using A3*G on other carriers.

On that


As for the economics of being the cheap *G airline, the earn/burn ratio should be profitable for them, but I think the $20 (or whatever) they get charged every time someone enters a lounge is going to result in changes sooner rather than later.

I'm sure someone said once the lounge charge is met by the operating carrier and not the FFP programme. It would make sense as it the airline that gets the ticket money that gets the most benefit from any loyalty to *A. Still, does anyone here know for certain how it works? Or is it negotiated individually by member airlines?

I wonder if the the crowd "sacrificing" 20K miles for *G will actually ever end up redeeming them, if they don't build up enough. It then becomes pure profit for A3 (although the financial liability hanging over A3 if they don't expire might be scary if a lot of people do this). The sacrificers might become profitable customers for M&B and so may well cover any outgoings using A3*G on other carriers.

I'm sure someone said once the lounge charge is met by the operating carrier and not the FFP programme. It would make sense as it the airline that gets the ticket money that gets the most benefit from any loyalty to *A. Still, does anyone here know for certain how it works? Or is it negotiated individually by member airlines?

I suspect I'll use my A3 points for a domestic USA redemption on UA or US at some point for a friend who will call in need. Not sure who or when, but I have a feeling that will be where they go...

Re the "cost" of lounge access, that is a very interesting question. Within the alliance, I had a feeling there was no inter-airline charge. For a while, I was BA gold (ow-e)...and would show that card to enter AA's lounges....even though I was earning AA miles for the specific flight. They never swiped my card or noted my BA number in those instances...makes me think they assume it all comes out about even. Anyone have inside info on this?

Glad to see this stand-alone forum set up.

Thanks indeed to PVDtoDEL and the many others who pushed for this. ^

wyvern, You wouldn't believe the work involved in manually splitting a mega-thread like that - it's gonna take weeks... but the existing threads from the OEFFP forum are here now and have been re-title, split, merged, extinguished etc. - and this is a good platform to deliver to from the mega-thread.

The few remaining threads from *A will come across this weekend.

We may as well name the elephant in the room: if too many people, particularly following US blogs, pick up on the really low threshold for *S (free baggage) and, more importantly, *G (lounge access) then the programme will hike its values and kill the golden goose. There's one such blog on linked the A3 board already - and a quick google reveals half a dozen more without difficulty. And if anyone thinks that A3 are not already reading this forum and those blogs - they are absolutely wrong. (Before anyone even thinks it, it's not a Mod's job to censor such stuff from this board. Mods are only here to enforce the ToS and as long as the posts are on topic, the links will stand.)

If A3 has done its homework - and the programme changes we have already seen this year suggest that they absolutely have - then they will continue making changes to maximise their income from all sorts of activities. Hopefully, they will be able to control the growth of the programme and leverage the yield so that the cost of the 'maximisers' can be absorbed without distorting the programme.

I'd like to see the redemption table made better value, especially where connections come in. If you live at a third point, you'll understand what I mean. BD's zone based approach alleviates some of this.

GoldCircle,

You raise a very valid point here- I've always been a big advocate of Aegean and blogged extensively about it in the past, but the last thing I want to see happen is for it to be devalued. I think Aegean strikes a fine balance, as their elites don't fly real often and therefore they (A3) don't have to pay lounge access fees all that often, esp as this is offset by other carriers paying A3 for their miles. But if we all start bragging about how good A3's program is, and abusing the free lounge access then crediting our miles elsewhere, then chances are this golden goose's days are numbered.

Just be careful folks.

GoldCircle,

You raise a very valid point here- I've always been a big advocate of Aegean and blogged extensively about it in the past, but the last thing I want to see happen is for it to be devalued. I think Aegean strikes a fine balance, as their elites don't fly real often and therefore they (A3) don't have to pay lounge access fees all that often, esp as this is offset by other carriers paying A3 for their miles. But if we all start bragging about how good A3's program is, and abusing the free lounge access then crediting our miles elsewhere, then chances are this golden goose's days are numbered.

Just be careful folks.

They've already figured out how to avoid devaluation with the "if you use our benifits, you must credit to us" rule. It shows that they have some creative solutions to these problems...

I don't think we need to be too worried about this to be honest.

Gotta love the low requirements for *Gold ^

They've already figured out how to avoid devaluation with the "if you use our benifits, you must credit to us" rule. It shows that they have some creative solutions to these problems...

I don't think we need to be too worried about this to be honest.

Where is this "rule" written? I have read through the M&B terms and conditions and didn't spot it, plus I have been using a M&B gold card for 6 months now and crediting the miles to another program without any repercussions. Should I be expecting a phone call?

To shift the discussion toward the title of this thread but in a different direction, since we are a new community on FT, can we please have a lounge thread? maybe call it something Greek, like the Ouzo or Rakki ?spelling? Taverna, perhaps.

Where is this "rule" written? I have read through the M&B terms and conditions and didn't spot it, plus I have been using a M&B gold card for 6 months now and crediting the miles to another program without any repercussions. Should I be expecting a phone call?
The rule in the M&B Terms and Conditions states that you must have your A3 number reflected on your boarding pass in order to recieve benifits. I have a contact at A3 who clarified that this rule does in fact mean that you must credit to A3 to recieve benifits, and that once A3 M&B hits a cash crunch, they will start cracking down.

So yes, you can excpect a call, but don't hold your breath for it.

The rule in the M&B Terms and Conditions states that you must have your A3 number reflected on your boarding pass in order to recieve benifits. I have a contact at A3 who clarified that this rule does in fact mean that you must credit to A3 to recieve benifits, and that once A3 M&B hits a cash crunch, they will start cracking down.

The only thing I see is this:
Miles&Bonus Gold Members reserve the right to use the Star Alliance network’s lounges globally. Mandatory for access is the demonstration of the Gold Card which bears the Star Alliance logo along with the boarding pass with the distinctive *G, as testimony to the Member’s level in the Miles&Bonus programme, and to the fact that his/her flight is operated by a Star Alliance member-carrier.

A BP with *G showing from a USA based program would meet that requirement. As would having your A3 number on file, getting your BP, using the lounge, and then changing your FF program at the gate (or even in the lounge for that matter).

The only thing I see is this:


A BP with *G showing from a USA based program would meet that requirement. As would having your A3 number on file, getting your BP, using the lounge, and then changing your FF program at the gate (or even in the lounge for that matter).

That interpretation makes logical sense to me too.

However, my contact at A3 said that it means what I originally said, so I am passing it on to you guys. I don't get to make or enforce the rules, so my opinion basically is irrelevant.

A BP with *G showing from a USA based program would meet that requirement. As would having your A3 number on file, getting your BP, using the lounge, and then changing your FF program at the gate (or even in the lounge for that matter).

If people DO end up doing that, then expect a devaluation.

If people DO end up doing that, then expect a devaluation.

That is also true.

I hope that A3 will go after the people who are breaking this rule than devalue for the rest of us when they hit a cash crunch. My contact said that that is their plan, I just hope that they go through with it.

I will have a request for them to clarify the rules listed in the petition I write out over the next weeks to submit to them.

Okay, now I have to ask... what's the petition?

Okay, now I have to ask... what's the petition?

I am drafting a petition for A3 to make change their rules (the rules which don't benifit us of course).

Things like:
allowing unlimited (or at least a reasonable amount) of connections
allowing stopovers
allowing RTW award fares
etc.

It comes down to a business decision for A3 to make, I would rather try not to rattle the golden goose for anything.

On the other hand, as FT members with shared principles as a community, we should really frown on the ones abusing A3 *G benefits. I am all for revoking status for those who use the benefits, without crediting to the parent program.

Yet, it does get tricky, however, for flights which don't credit 0 or less than 100% for A3, but 100% for another. How should we negotiate this then?

It comes down to a business decision for A3 to make, I would rather try not to rattle the golden goose for anything.

On the other hand, as FT members with shared principles as a community, we should really frown on the ones abusing A3 *G benefits. I am all for revoking status for those who use the benefits, without crediting to the parent program.

Yet, it does get tricky, however, for flights which don't credit 0 or less than 100% for A3, but 100% for another. How should we negotiate this then?

I see it as a tradeoff that A3 elites must make- you want cheap lounge access for 19K EQM's, you sacrifice some potential RDMs that you could've gotten crediting to another carrier.

What means do they have of enforcing this? What documentation is collected by Star Alliance lounges upon entry and passed on to M&B? I'm not a regular flyer on *A, and not really familiar with protocol.

It is very much in my interest that they be able to track usage accurately, as the M&B program as-is suits my needs well and I have no intention of skirting the rules. The easier it is to enforce such requirements, the more confident I am in the future of the program as it stands.

What means do they have of enforcing this? What documentation is collected by Star Alliance lounges upon entry and passed on to M&B? I'm not a regular flyer on *A, and not really familiar with protocol.

It is very much in my interest that they be able to track usage accurately, as the M&B program as-is suits my needs well and I have no intention of skirting the rules. The easier it is to enforce such requirements, the more confident I am in the future of the program as it stands.

It's easy to enforce if they actually need to, but I feel like they won't bother to enforce it until they are actually hurting for cash...

Basically, when you swipe your card, A3 gets a bill for the lounge fees. When you credit using your A3 miles, A3 gets a payment for the miles.

If they get lots of bills but not much payment for an account, they can figure it out pretty easily...

It's easy to enforce if they actually need to, but I feel like they won't bother to enforce it until they are actually hurting for cash...

Basically, when you swipe your card, A3 gets a bill for the lounge fees. When you credit using your A3 miles, A3 gets a payment for the miles.

If they get lots of bills but not much payment for an account, they can figure it out pretty easily...
As I'd mentioned, I haven't accessed a star lounge before, so wasn't sure of the specifics on entry. I think I've read of some people just showing rather than swiping their card, but as long as it's swiped and the owner is recorded consistently, then I feel quite a bit better about A3's ability to operate long-term with their unorthodox but attractive value proposition.

Shouldn't we ask A3 to be more specific about that rule (using the *A lounges with the A3*G status but crediting to another *A airline)?

As some of you know already, I did this once: at TPE *G lounge, showing my A3*G card but crediting on SQ.
I also used my A3*G status in order to get the extra bag allowance at check-in and, again, crediting to SQ.

I am not complaining or ranting about this. I'd be glad to abide to these rules if they were a bit more specific.

The T&C state:
Miles&Bonus Gold Members reserve the right to use the Star Alliance network’s lounges globally. Mandatory for access is the demonstration of the Gold Card which bears the Star Alliance logo along with the boarding pass with the distinctive *G, as testimony to the Member’s level in the Miles&Bonus programme, and to the fact that his/her flight is operated by a Star Alliance member-carrier.

And someone at A3 says that this means "need to credit on A3 in order to take advantage of *G perks". To me, the T&C is not clear enough. One can interpret this to his own "advantage". They can say "yes that means, credit to A3 is mandatory" but I could say "I just need to show my *G status through my card AND the *G printed on the BP."
They could required a "A3*G xxxxxxxx" printed on the BP in order to get lounge access.

Most of the time, the credit gets changed automatically to A3 though. I was early once, on a CGK-SIN flight and wanted to be changed on the earlier flight. They told me at check-in that I needed to be on a waiting list. So I said that I was *G with A3. Fine. They check this in their system and confirm my status and tell me I can go to the lounge and wait for my name to be called.

By doing this, my mileage got automatically credited to A3, as opposed to SQ, under which number my booking was made. They did not ask me anything (fair enough, that's how it's supposed to work but a little notice would have been appreciated for newbies like me). But the boarding pass still showed "SQ xxxxxx".

From now on, I'll refrain from "frauding" and will use my A3*G status only if really "needed", to be fair with A3's programme.

What about award tickets? A3 doesn't give any miles credit for these flights, whether they we paid with A3 miles or not. Can you not get *G benefits if you are *G on A3 but using some other *A program miles for the free ticket?

However, I agree with the principle that if you want to use their benefits, you should see that A3 gets something for you as a customer in some form.

However, does the elite *A FF program really pay for benefits such as free luggage and elite check in and security lines when one of their elites travels on and claims *A *G benefits from a partner airline? Is it not the case that such benefits are offered as a courtesy, standardized across the alliance?

Personally, I would love it if the LH codeshare deal would lead to special benefits on LH, LX, etc., such as a UA paper SWU-like upgrade benefit, perhaps by using A3 miles to obtain a paper upgrade cert in advance, to be used at the airport.

Hello,
If I'm using other *A program miles (United) for the free tickets, can I still use the A3 *G status for lounge access and priority baggage?

Hello,
If I'm using other *A program miles (United) for the free tickets, can I still use the A3 *G status for lounge access and priority baggage?

yes.
Just present your card at check-in.

The only exception is if you are redeeming on an airline like SQ, where the FQTS field can only have a KrisFlyer account number.