Travel News - Senator proposes law to limit checked-bag fees

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57330462-503544/new-bill-targets-airline-bag-check-fees/

The senate will eliminated 1st & 2nd checked bags fees. That's mean it won't pay for charge checked bags fees anymore. Those passengers who had it right to get a free 1st & 2nd checked bags.

Here the basic rules:

- No first bag fees for a "reasonable" sized bag.
- No fees for carryons
- No charge for drinkable water or other "reasonable" requests.

Sen. Mary Landrieu, D-La., this week introduced the Airline Passenger BASICS Act (the "BASIC" stands for Basic Airline Standards to Improve Customer Satisfaction)

Since when is it the responsibility of Congress to improve the customer satisfaction of a private business?

Since when is it the responsibility of Congress to improve the customer satisfaction of a private business?It isn't. Congress sh;)uld butt out of this one. It's already mismanaging enough.

Since when is it the responsibility of Congress to improve the customer satisfaction of a private business?

When they think it will bring them votes.

Luckily, according to the article at least, the bill is going nowhere.

He's a fool.

Laws should not contain the word "reasonable" without very good reason.

He's a fool.

Laws should not contain the word "reasonable" without very good reason.

In this case, he is a she.

I can live with the checked bag fees, you learn how to pack smart and avoid them.

What really frosts me is the "change fees" on canceled reservations. Okay I get that on a non-refundable ticket if I cancel my flight I won't get any money back, hence the term non-refundable. I also understand that if I make a change to the reservation, different flight, time, day, etc, fine pay the new fare plus a change fee, sure. What passengers should be entitled to, however, is store credit, and not store credit minus a change fee for new reservations! If I purchase a ticket to fly A-B on XX/XX/XX and then for whatever reason I can't make the flight, I should receive essentially store credit for the full amount. I'm sorry but if I cancel ticket 1 and then have to fly A-C on YY/YY/YY, that is not a changed itinerary, that is an entirely separate itinerary. Apparently only airline accountants and executives believe that canceling an itinerary is equivalent to an entirely new itinerary months later. It's annoying because you know that they'll have oversold the flight anyway or that they'll sell the seat I've released at a higher fare bucket.

Since when is it the responsibility of Congress to improve the customer satisfaction of a private business?

Until JEC deregulated airlines, that was precisely the responsibility of Congress. While I prefer deregulation, historically, Congress has regulated transportation very tightly. My guess is that this will get by Congress eventually.


What really frosts me is the "change fees" on canceled reservations. Okay I get that on a non-refundable ticket if I cancel my flight I won't get any money back, hence the term non-refundable. I also understand that if I make a change to the reservation, different flight, time, day, etc, fine pay the new fare plus a change fee, sure. What passengers should be entitled to, however, is store credit, and not store credit minus a change fee for new reservations! If I purchase a ticket to fly A-B on XX/XX/XX and then for whatever reason I can't make the flight, I should receive essentially store credit for the full amount. I'm sorry but if I cancel ticket 1 and then have to fly A-C on YY/YY/YY, that is not a changed itinerary, that is an entirely separate itinerary. Apparently only airline accountants and executives believe that canceling an itinerary is equivalent to an entirely new itinerary months later. It's annoying because you know that they'll have oversold the flight anyway or that they'll sell the seat I've released at a higher fare bucket.
Lots of stores levy a restocking fee. For airlines, the cost of restocking is much higher because by canceling your ticket, the airline loses an opportunity for revenue. The product an airline sells is much more time critical than a TV from best buy.

Lots of stores levy a restocking fee. For airlines, the cost of restocking is much higher because by canceling your ticket, the airline loses an opportunity for revenue. The product an airline sells is much more time critical than a TV from best buy.

Yes, but a restocking fee on a TV rarely exceeds the cost of the TV or even approaches 10% of the cost of the item while the "change fee" is often as much or close to the price of a short haul ticket. They are apples and oranges.

Governments regulating airlines is the norm internationally, even in markets seen as more laissez-faire than the US.

Minimum service standards to be included as part of a contract of carriage and not generally surrenderable by a customer are fair game as far as I'm concerned. Even if this includes baggage fee limitations, no skin off my back even as someone exempted from such fee for a first checked bag on all the airlines that are part of one of the big three global airline alliances.

As airlines introduced baggage fees, the price of my tickets didn't drop. When airlines got a de facto tax holiday of sorts due to Congressional stalling over a budget agreement, the prices of my tickets didn't drop but for a day or two even as the de facto tax holiday was longer than 2 days.

I expect the airlines will get creative to get more revenue from customers even if such regulation about one free checked bag minimum were to become law sooner than later.

Yes, but a restocking fee on a TV rarely exceeds the cost of the TV or even approaches 10% of the cost of the item while the "change fee" is often as much or close to the price of a short haul ticket. They are apples and oranges.As I thought I'd appointed out, that's because the tv can be sold again. A seat for a flight yesterday can never be sold again. Time and the lack of time travel is a witch ain't it?



As airlines introduced baggage fees, the price of my tickets didn't drop. When airlines got a de facto tax holiday of sorts due to Congressional stalling over a budget agreement, the prices of my tickets didn't drop but for a day or two even as the de facto tax holiday was longer than 2 days.

I expect the airlines will get creative to get more revenue from customers even if such regulation about one free checked bag minimum were to become law sooner than later.

Indeed, and the government should refuse another airline merger until the airline industry starts acting like there is competition.

As I thought I'd appointed out, that's because the tv can be sold again. A seat for a flight yesterday can never be sold again. Time and the lack of time travel is a witch ain't it?


Some of the restocking fee on electronics is due to outdated merchandise that has been replaced by newer models or must now be sold at a lower price because it's an opened box or used.

And of course an airline seat can be resold again! Especially if the flight is oversold it's a moot point. If I cancel a r/t ticket worth $140 between PHX-LAX a week in advance, the airline has 7 days to resell that ticket at the same or higher fare bucket. You're right though, I don't expect a refund if I no-show but if I call a week in advance or more, I believe that passengers should be entitled to essentially store credit.

Already being discussed here:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travelbuzz/1283538-congress-considering-banning-first-checked-bag-fee-again.html

If there were such a rule, it would necessarily to have a specific size limit. "Reasonable" is not a word that bureaurcrats can define. They would have to set something in writing, then enforce it, like with a sizer.

Imagine thousands of "federally approved" sizers going into place. You certainly couldn't use the ones tha airlines already have. It would literally cost millions in procurement. First someone to spend thousands debating the dimensions. The after a few months of hearings, they publish the size. Next, to obtain such a carefully crafted item, it goes to bid. The size, material, finish, labels, packaging, etc. jack up the price.

Every gate in the country would need one. (Let's see, at least 50 gates at St. Louis, hundreds at O'Hare, thousands of gates in NYC alone). Probably one more for each airline at the airport for its ticket counter. Even if we ended up spending less than $1000 each (at government prices), multiplied by the tens of thousands of gates we would need, do the math.

Who enforces the limits? Who checks the and reports on the enforcement? New rules must come in place. New people to implement it. A whole new agency at the Federal Government to administer. A new director, new managers, set up an entirely new set of personnel requirements. We'll need performance standards, hiring guidelines, firing guidelines, grievance procedures, new forms to fill out, standards, incentives, penalties. And a multimillion budget, just the first year. Signs outside the baggage area, signs internally, an ad campaign to publicize it.

Are they to be called federal "reps", "agents", "officers", "marshalls", or what? Are they to be LEO's, with power to detain? (See TSA). Power to fine you? Make you go to court?

Easily, this would cost the government millions. That means it would cost you and me millions.

Brazil's federal government has a rule that guarantees a minimum free checked baggage allowance at least for a variety of international flights -- that rule was put in place without all of the stuff mentioned in the prior post being set up there. Not sure why the US would be anything special in this regard either.

And of course an airline seat can be resold again! Especially if the flight is oversold it's a moot point. If I cancel a r/t ticket worth $140 between PHX-LAX a week in advance, the airline has 7 days to resell that ticket at the same or higher fare bucket. You're right though, I don't expect a refund if I no-show but if I call a week in advance or more, I believe that passengers should be entitled to essentially store credit.

A tv returned yesterday can be sold today. A seat returned yesterday cannot be sold today and often could not be sold yesterday either because the potential buyers bought a different seat on a different flight. Returned seats, especially last minute cancelations represent lost revenue.

A tv returned yesterday can be sold today. A seat returned yesterday cannot be sold today and often could not be sold yesterday either because the potential buyers bought a different seat on a different flight. Returned seats, especially last minute cancelations represent lost revenue.

That's fine, I agree with you about last minute cancellations, but I'm talking weeks ahead of time or even months ahead of time. It's an outright scam that airlines are allowed to charge a $150 change fee on a cancelled reservation if said cancellation is made well in advance of the flight. Create a cut of off two weeks or even a month for full credit, no cash back, but full credit. Anything less than 30 days or two weeks, or whatever, pay a change fee. But if I have reservations 6 months out from now that I cancel three months in advance of the flight, there's absolutely no logical reason for the airline to hold my money hostage.

Yeah yeah, I know, fly WN if I want to avoid this problem.

When they think it will bring them votes.

Luckily, according to the article at least, the bill is going nowhere.

I certainly hope it goes nowhere. What is wrong with passengers getting a choice of not checking a bag, and saving some money; or checking a bag, and getting an extra service? Baggage adds weight, and handling baggage is a significant expense to the airline. What is "reasonable" is that the passengers who cause the airlines to incur these expenses should pay a fee for it, while those that do not need this service can avoid the charge.

But if I have reservations 6 months out from now that I cancel three months in advance of the flight, there's absolutely no logical reason for the airline to hold my money hostage.

Yeah yeah, I know, fly WN if I want to avoid this problem.

Maybe not a logical reason, but there is a legal reason, in the contract you entered into when you purchased the ticket. Don't like the rule, fly someone else (which apparently you chose to do, but why you are complaining about it now I have no idea)

That's fine, I agree with you about last minute cancellations, but I'm talking weeks ahead of time or even months ahead of time. It's an outright scam that airlines are allowed to charge a $150 change fee on a cancelled reservation if said cancellation is made well in advance of the flight. Create a cut of off two weeks or even a month for full credit, no cash back, but full credit. Anything less than 30 days or two weeks, or whatever, pay a change fee. But if I have reservations 6 months out from now that I cancel three months in advance of the flight, there's absolutely no logical reason for the airline to hold my money hostage.

Yeah yeah, I know, fly WN if I want to avoid this problem.
Nope. Let's say you buy a ticket for a flight leaving three weeks from now. Because you bought the last seat of fare class ttt, when I go to buy a seat on them same flight, the fare is now $100 higher, so I buy another flight. Then three days later, you cancel. Too late for me, I am locked into an non refundable fare, and the change fee exceeds the cheaper fare the airline relists. As departure date nears, the airline gets desperate, and sells the seat for $200 less than what you paid. So your act has cost the airline money.

Nope. Let's say you buy a ticket for a flight leaving three weeks from now. Because you bought the last seat of fare class ttt, when I go to buy a seat on them same flight, the fare is now $100 higher, so I buy another flight. Then three days later, you cancel. Too late for me, I am locked into an non refundable fare, and the change fee exceeds the cheaper fare the airline relists. As departure date nears, the airline gets desperate, and sells the seat for $200 less than what you paid. So your act has cost the airline money.

Too late for you but not too late for somebody else. I don't see why this is confusing. I buy a ticket for $150 for a flight 6 months away. The airline can continue to sell seats on that flight for whatever price they want, overselling it if they want at higher fares, and then hoping to make money on the difference that they offer as compensation between the higher and lower fares to people that they can't in fact board because the plane is too small.

If I cancel my $150 ticket three months before the flight, they have a confirmed seat available that they can now resell.

Your TV analogy doesn't work because airline seats are not possessed until somebody's butt is in the seat and the doors are closed, the airlines can do whatever they want up until that point.

I agree with you that at some point there should be a cut off for change fees and/or full credit, but the current way that most airlines are interpreting change fees and non-refundable tickets is nothing but an outright scam.

Neutral on this..

When the airlines started to implement checked bag fees, many thought it was a quick cash grab..

Now that the prices have adjusted to reflect checked bag fees, we see airlines bleeding red.. so introducing legislation to require no checked bag fees isn't going to solve airline business woes..

Neutral on this..

When the airlines started to implement checked bag fees, many thought it was a quick cash grab..

Now that the prices have adjusted to reflect checked bag fees, we see airlines bleeding red.. so introducing legislation to require no checked bag fees isn't going to solve airline business woes..

And they can just adjust things back. It was a cash grab that the market of course neutralized.

Will non-US airlines be subject to the same for flights originating outside of the US but heading to the US?

And they can just adjust things back. It was a cash grab that the market of course neutralized.

Air Canada was one of the few airlines until recently offering one checked bag no charge..

With the changes to their FFP program, and their bottom line bleeding red.. Air Canada joined the others charging for checked bags..

Air Canada was one of the few airlines until recently offering one checked bag no charge..

With the changes to their FFP program, and their bottom line bleeding red.. Air Canada joined the others charging for checked bags..

Air Canada is all about the cash grab at that too. Just look at the fuel surcharge shenanigan on mileage tickets. So no surprise that AC went after the low-hanging fruit of charging more and for more checked bags.

Companies and markets get the regulation they deserve, including when one or both fail.

I'm all for this - checked bag fees were just a cash grab, didn't make fares cheaper and cause chaos on the plane with the ridiculous amount and sizes of carry on seen.

A checked bag is a perfectly reasonable feature to bundle into the cost of a plane ticket. Splitting it out was just the start of a slippery slope that led next to charging to board before everyone else (I mean, really???) and moves on to Ryanair-esque charging to print you a boarding pass or threatening to charge for the bathrooms. This type of behavior can possibly be tolerated among low-cost carriers but major national airlines should provide a reasonable standard of service included in the price of a ticket, otherwise we're all getting shafted.

Air Canada is all about the cash grab at that too. Just look at the fuel surcharge shenanigan on mileage tickets. So no surprise that AC went after the low-hanging fruit of charging more and for more checked bags.

Companies and markets get the regulation they deserve, including when one or both fail.

Agree the perception of cash grab is there.. as I'm not a proponent for what AC has been doing to their overall services and enhancement (negative) to FFP.

On the other side of the coin, AC has been bleeding red all year.. My thinking its due to their loyalty program changes.. Based on the 80/20 rule, many of the loyal customers felt betrayed at the unannounced changes that caught FFers off guard.. hence, the most loyal AC members started exiting and affecting ACs bottom line almost immediately..

Word to the wise at AC.. If it ain't broken, don't fix it.. because now its broken..