European Rail Travel - Visiting Belgium, Germany, Switzerland and France by train? Please advise!

I would like to sample what I understand are the far superior rail networks and trains around Europe.

So I have an idea for what might be an educational and enjoyable experience:

1. EuroStar from London St Pancras to Brussels.
2. Train from Brussels to Frankfurt.
3. Train from Frankfurt to Zurich.
4. Train from Zurich to Geneva.
5. Train from Geneva to Lyon.
6. Train from Lyon to Paris.
7. EuroStar from Paris back to London.

I have already found lots of useful threads on these forums regarding the best options for buying tickets to cover each stage of the trip.

My questions for this thread are more general in nature. Specifically:
1. How many overnight stays should I best build into this trip?
2. What is the total cost likely to be?
3. Are there any ways to combine fares or expenses in order to reduce costs?

Has anyone else tried a train travel holiday of this nature?

I would be interested to hear everyone's thoughts. Thanks.

I want to go! Done right, this could be fabulous. Too tightly planned, meaning no wiggle room, and you could have problems.

First... Check out the Man in Seat 61 website. (if you haven't already down so). Is is my essential reading for this type of travel. It (he?) even gives directions for booking things in other languages ( the English version of the Stella rail and sail doesn't include the first train ticket).

Caution.. Watch carefully what train stations you are arriving and departing from. Sometimes they are close and a transfer is easy. Other times, not so much. In Europe, there are also different types if trains, the faster ones often much mire expensive. Check out both a combo ticket, highspeed to a city then slower to your destination, against purchasing separately. They can be vastly different.
And keep in mind that the Eurostar is like an airline, the cheapest seats go first. To Brussels is much cheaper than to Paris, but even the cheaper seats can disappear.

1. How many overnight stays should I best build into this trip?

This really depends on what you consider to be the main purpose of your trip - is it to look at the scenery en route, or to get to know the towns that you are visiting? If it's the former then one night in each place will do. If it's the latter you want at least a full day (i.e., two nights), possibly more.

2. What is the total cost likely to be?

This is difficult to answer as the same trip, on the same train, can sometimes cost you anything from EUR 19 to more than EUR 100, depending on how soon you book. To get a rough idea I suggest you go to the various rail operators' web sites and do some dummy bookings.

3. Are there any ways to combine fares or expenses in order to reduce costs?

It may (or may not) be worth looking at rail passes such as Interrail. Buying advance purchase tickets may well work out cheaper

Has anyone else tried a train travel holiday of this nature?

Used to do it all the time in my younger days (I'm of the Interrail generation!)

1. How many overnight stays should I best build into this trip?

That's really up to you. If you just wanted to travel round this route as quickly as possible, I think the fastest possible would be:
Day 1:
Afternoon Eurostar London to Brussels
Evening ICE Brussels to Frankfurt (although I'd actually choose Köln for this routing)
Late night Citynightline sleeper from Köln (or Frankfurt) to Zurich.

Day 2:
Arrive Zurich by Citynightline sleeper
IC to Geneva
TGV to Lyons and on to Paris
Late evening Eurostar to London.

Or, if you wanted a bit more slack in the journey:

Day 2:
Arrive Zurich by Citynightline sleeper
IC to Geneva
TGV to Lyons
Lunea night train to Paris

Day 3:
Arrive Paris
Morning Eurostar to London

However, if you actually want to see some of the places you're passing through (not just the railway stations), then you could probably easily spend at least one day per location, and probably more in some cases.


2. What is the total cost likely to be?

In most cases, prices increase the closer you get to the departure date. If you book well in advance (ie: at least 2, and ideally close to 3, months ahead), then probably the best prices available are:
London - Brussels - Frankfurt: DB London-Spezial, from €49 (fairly sure this allows up to a 24hr stopover in Brussels). More if you want the Citynightline (and a couchette or sleeper berth) for Köln/Frankfurt to Zurich
Frankfurt - Zurich: DB Europa-Spezial, from €39
Zurich - Geneva: Not sure - guess about CHF100
Geneva - Lyons: Not sure - but guess cheap tickets from about €35
Lyons - Paris - London: Combined TGV+Eurostar ticket from £61. More if you want the Lunea night train from Lyons to Paris.

However, prices will vary a lot depending on when you book, and which days of the week / times of day you're willing to travel. Note that all of these prices (except for the Zurich - Geneva) are discounted, buy-in-advance fares which restrict you to a specific train, and may not allow changes or
cancellations.


3. Are there any ways to combine fares or expenses in order to reduce costs?

The DB London-Spezial is the cheapest way of getting from London to Germany by train (as long as you don't mind the relatively short stopover time (24h?) that is allowed in Brussels). Also, the combined TGV+Eurostar tickets may the cheapest way of getting from France to the UK (but again, this may restrict how long you're allowed to stop in Paris for). You may also find you can get a through ticket for Zurich-Geneva-Lyons with a stopover in Geneva, but I'm not sure - you'd have to play around on the SBB and SNCF websites to check this.

If you were willing to skip Zurich, you could probably get a DB Europa-Spezial for Frankfurt-Geneva for 'from €39' (possibly with a stopover in one town en route - but not Zurich, as I think it's too far in the other direction to be allowed as a reasonable route). This would save you the relatively expensive Swiss domestic train.

I'm no expert in rail-passes, but I understand that they're of relatively little value on Eurostar, and also on many of the yield-managed trains in France (as places for rail-pass holders are strictly limited). So, on this itinerary, you may well find that a rail-pass doesn't work out any cheaper.

Using an overnight train can save both time and a hotel bill. The 2 main options on your route seem to be the Citynightline Köln/Frankfurt to Zurich, and the Lunea Lyons to Paris. Take a couchette (or sleeper, on the Citynightline) for comfort and safety.

This is an itinerary where using a rail-pass would almost certainly not be cost effective (especially since pass prices on Eurostar are a waste of time).

On DB London-Spezial (and Europa-Spezial) tickets, you are allowed two stopovers of up to 48 hours each, so this can be very useful in trips like these.

You could, in theory, get a €49 ticket from London to Basel Bad, on the Swiss border, via Brussels, Cologne and Frankfurt, stopping off at two places on the way, over a period of up to 5 days.

I am overwhelmed by everyone's help and encouragement - thank you!

I am definitely going for a whistle-stop, enjoy the scenery, briefer stop-over tour of Europe. Around five days would be perfect.

I think in the next instance I must obtain ticket information from the various rail operators mentioned, and report back with my findings.

I am hoping to do this trip in mid or late December - so I hope I am able to get sufficient ticket discounts in time. I will keep you posted.

I am hoping to do this trip in mid or late December - so I hope I am able to get sufficient ticket discounts in time.

Ouch - price could well be a problem any time from mid-December to early January.

I was very lucky to get a €49 ticket from Munich to London for the 17th December, but I booked as soon as online reservations opened for that date. When I checked recently, the fare for the same itinerary had gone up to €119.

If you're going in December you need to bear in mind that you will only have about eight hours of daylight - so if you want to see the scenery you'd have to time your travel very carefully.

Brilliant points - thank you!

I will definitely be deferring this trip to the spring in order to enjoy the scenery as much as possible.

I will start buying my tickets now, in the hope of getting some bargains.

Thank you everyone for the support.