China - My First Trip (Beijing and Xian)

Made my first trip down to China at the end of September and figured it was time to share with folks here and hopefully this will helpful to anyone else who is heading out there for the first time. Thanks to all the people on this forum that gave me great advice.

Beijing: Getting there from the airport was an experience. Like most people will advice here, stick to the taxi lines and dont be taken into the black cars or the people who will come upto you and ask you if you need a taxi. Prior to leaving also do some research online or email your hotel and get the name and address in chinese which you should print out and take with you. Also don't forget to take the phone number of the hotel. Going there for the first time I did not realize I really needed the name of the streets in Chinese/Madarin. I had to spend 15 mins trying to give the taxi driver the address and then the phone number and he had to dial the hotel to figure out where it was. Do not expect to have a taxi driver that can understand any English so it will be a lot of hand signals and whatever chinese you know. Other than that the airport and the drive to the hotel is pretty straight forward. I would not recommend taking the train especially if this is your first time there.

Stayed at the St. Regis (cash+points) which was definitely worth it. I got upgraded to a suite and it included amazing buffet breakfast everyday which was excellent. Its also pretty close to most things so you want to see if you are there as a tourist.

Guides/Getting Around: I got a guide since I didn't know any mandarin and figured it would be easiest way to see places. I did this through trip adviser. All this was useful, it was not really required. Beijing is pretty foreigner friendly and there are a lot of signs in English. Also your hotel can tell you where to go and help you write down names of places in Mandarin so you can show a taxi driver or a person on the street to figure out how to get back. Having a phone and your hotel's phone number is helpful but not essential. If you are going to use a guide be careful of who you choose. I got a guide that I thought was the person who had emailed me from tripadviser only to find out later that she was just someone the real guide had passed the job to since she didn’t want to lose the money. Basically everything that was said in the reviews in the tripadviser didn’t really apply to her. All in all not the best guide, but it was ok.
Traveling around in trains is pretty straight forward and even without any understanding of Mandarin, the information is easy enough to figure out. Worst case if you end up going in the wrong direction, get off and take the train back. Used trains a number of times and it was never an issue. And it shows you another side of the city. Never used the buses though. Traveling further out you will need to use taxis especially if you are going to great wall in which case you may either want to do a tour or hire a taxi for a day.

Converting money: I would convert about $30 at the airport to get you to the hotel and then change your money at the hotel or a local bank. I did all my conversions as I needed at the hotel and had no issues what so ever and I dont think the exchange rate was more than a few basis points off. Also tried using my bank cards to withdraw money just to test them and found that they didn't really work there so keep this in mind when taking cash/travelers checks from here. I was able to use my credit cards for all the hotel charges but make sure you dont get charged conversion fees (make sure the hotel charges your credit card in yuan). I think there a bunch of threads on that here as well.

Telephones/Cellphones: If you really need a cell phone, get a phone from here that can take a SIM card. Or have someone give you an old cell phone which can use a SIM card. Once you get to hotel they can probably get you a SIM card or tell you where to get one. I got a card for 500 yuan and never really used more than half of it while as was there (btw if anyone traveling would like a SIM card usable in Beijing, let me know and I can mail it out to you).
Water: Always bought either bottled water from the grocery stores or got it from the hotel. The vendors on the street may or may not have actual bottled water, even it looks brand new. Thankfully I didn’t get sick which would have ruined the trip. Also with fruit any street food, you may want to be careful of what you eat especially if its been sitting outside for a while or was washed with dirty water.

Places to see: For those who like temples/palaces, there are tons to see and most are pretty close by. Personally after a while they all looked the same and most of them have been recently painted/cleaned up for tourists. The most interesting for me was the summer palace, which is a great place to spend a day walking around the parks and just enjoying the place. It is outside the city and I used a hired taxi since it was quite a while away. The Hutungs were interesting and are a nice walk for a couple of hours just seeing the local settings. Did one show but would highly recommend against those. And if you want do a show go with a tour – it’s a lot cheaper because they get significant discounts. And remember almost everything is bargainable.

Great wall of China: If you have just a couple of hours then you will want to go to tourist section of the wall (Mutiyana or Balding) which are the newer parts of the wall. The wall is relatively new and well kept/clean. Make sure to take a couple of bottles of water and some fruit if you want to have a picnic on the wall. Everything is a step so you will need to have wear good hiking shoes and keep yourself hydrated. If you have the time and are interested in hiking the older parts of the wall, I would recommend starting from Jiankou and hiking to Mutiyana. However this a full day hike and there are parts of the wall where you will basically be walking through shrubs and at fairly steep angles. Something to be aware of if you are going to start from here, there is about an hour hike to actually get to the wall and you will want to make very sure the driver knows how to get to the base (I went with a guide and the driver was totally lost so we spent two hours trying to find the entrance). However you will get to see the older parts of the wall and also see how far up you are from the base.


Xian: Since I didn’t book any flights from the US, I had the hotel concierge book the flights to Xian, which was in line with what I could see online. Only issue was they needed the payment in cash or would charge me a fee with credit cards. Hotels in Xian are all over the place. I got a place close to the center of town (by the drum tower) but it was at the level of a motel 6/super 8. And I got bit by some insect while I was there. Other than that the hotel was fine. I couldn’t get the Shangrila for the two nights I was in Xian but I have heard that is the best hotel in the area. The Sheraton hotel is really outside the town so not a good choice unless you have a car. Most of the cities tourist sites are pretty much within walking distance of the drum tower/center of town. The only place that I had to get a tour for was the TerraCotta palace which is quite a ways away. In the city the muslim quarters are a great place to get your trinkets and eat some local food. I would highly recommend a walk on the city wall or even doing a bike tour as it is quite huge and impressive. The Terracotta armies are a must if you come out to Xian but beware that it can get very crowded (a problem if you have small kids or are claustrophobic). I went in a tour and it was pretty stifling within the tomb areas as it very crowded. You will have to jostle to get to the front of the rails if you want to take any pictures. But it is worth it once you are there to see all the statues.

Hope this is useful to some of the other first timers heading out there.

Or "hei che." By this we mean black market taxis, not literally color of the cab. Yes, beware of touts that approach you. Yesterday I arrived back in Beijing on a domestic flight, and was heading towards the escalator down to the legit taxi queue on the lower level. When a lady literally leaped off her bench and went straight for me asking in English "taxi? where you go?". Clearly targeting the obvious foreigner and not any Chinese person. Of course, I snarled at her, told her I was a Beijingren, and go stuff her hei che where it won't easily fit. And proceeded to queue. Non-Mandarin speakers may just safely ignore these pests and proceed to the taxi queue, following the clear signage in the terminal.

Absolutely have the address of your hotel/destination in English (pinyin), in Chinese characters, and the local phone of the hotel so cabbie can call for directions if needed.

I do not know why you had problems with your ATM card. Most people do not, and rely heavily on ATM's to procure local cash. Your experience is uncommon and may be due to some issue that is bank-specific to you.

Agreed, a local cell phone/SIM is a very very useful item to have. It need not be fancy or 3G capable. If you can't get a hand-me-down phone, cheapies can be purchased everywhere which you can then get a cheap SIM for. Recommended for all coming to China repeatedly, or staying for at least a week.

Thanks for sharing. Always nice to see new faces on the forum and the fresh perspective of travelers new to China.

I got a card for 500 yuan and never really used more than half of it while as was there (btw if anyone traveling would like a SIM card usable in Beijing, let me know and I can mail it out to you).

500? Either you got an amazing phone number, a boatload of air time, or were taken for a serious ride. I suspect one of the former two is the case, so yeah, it would be nice if you put that card in play here.

I would suggest you lend it to the next poster we like who visits BJ and have them leave it with one of us locals to make available to future visitors.

Switching gears, I am not afraid of black taxis (I hate standing out in the cold/rain), but one needs to be pretty strong when negotiating with them. Solid Mandarin is kind of essential as well.

Moondog - Perhaps it wasn't 500 yuan, may be like 300 but couldn't clearly remember. It was the SIM card and like 150 Yuan in mins and free incoming + free Beijing mins so I never ended up using much.

And yep glad to give it to the next poster leaving for China needing a SIM Card.

Beijing: Getting there from the airport was an experience. Like most people will advice here, stick to the taxi lines and dont be taken into the black cars

First trip for me also, but I chose the train to town. Easy to do with carryon only. Passed by some slow traffic, so probably just as fast :p

Now if it would only warm up a little :(

EmailKid

Switching gears, I am not afraid of black taxis (I hate standing out in the cold/rain), but one needs to be pretty strong when negotiating with them. Solid Mandarin is kind of essential as well.


Black cars really are market forces at work. Had to take several over the last couple of days and the cold snap since bona fide taxis just weren't available, and standing outside was not too much fun. Prices definitely go up when the weather is bad! About 1.5-2.5x as much as a regular cab, ime.

Can barely string two words together in mandarin, so maybe I paid more than someone who can speak the lingo -- at least I hope so -- since that will be motivation in learning chinese!

tb

PS thanks for the report back OP!

Need to get a black Lincoln Town Car and hustle Chinese tourists coming out of TBIT at LAX. 300SD to San Gabriel. Yeah, that would last about 5 minutes
with LAX PD and LAPD.

Black cars really are market forces at work. Had to take several over the last couple of days and the cold snap since bona fide taxis just weren't available, and standing outside was not too much fun. Prices definitely go up when the weather is bad! About 1.5-2.5x as much as a regular cab, ime.
There are some illegal taxis which actually charge reasonable prices, but all the ones I've used don't have touts and just wait somewhere inconspicuous somewhere near a real taxi stand. I used to use one in Shenzhen regularly at the Lok Ma Chau/Huanggang border but the driver gave up his "business". :( I can't be bothered to find another semi-honest driver so I just take an official taxi now in the rather uncommon occasion I enter China by land.

I got a card for 500 yuan and never really used more than half of it while as was there (btw if anyone traveling would like a SIM card usable in Beijing, let me know and I can mail it out to you).
:( I could talk for months with 500 RMB of airtime.

There are some illegal taxis .

Technicaly not "illegal"..not registered.

Of course, I snarled at her, told her I was a Beijingren, and go stuff her hei che where it won't easily fit.

jiejie, your mandarin must really have improved because even I don't know how to say that!

OP, great post and very informative. Your experiences are spot on and great addition to the China forum, thanks!

First trip for me also, but I chose the train to town. Easy to do with carryon only. Passed by some slow traffic, so probably just as fast :p

Now if it would only warm up a little :(

EmailKid

I got in at around midnight so figured it was easier to take a cab, but good to hear that is a possibility.

Forgot to add to the trip notes: For the Xian trip I had to book the hotel through ctrip (tried the concierge and he booked me somewhere tripadviser didn't recommend). Was afraid ctrip would be an issue since no money is taken upfront and doesn't require a credit card but it worked like a charm.

[QUOTE=mnredfox;17483581]jiejie, your mandarin must really have improved because even I don't know how to say that!
QUOTE]

把你的黑车插入在屁股里面 should be sufficient to get idea across. Though there's probably a more natural idiom out there...

I got in at around midnight so figured it was easier to take a cab, but good to hear that is a possibility.

Do not know how late they run, but that late it takes a while to get to the hotel :( Rather it probably always takes a while, just seems longer that late.

EmailKid

[QUOTE=mnredfox;17483581]jiejie, your mandarin must really have improved because even I don't know how to say that!
QUOTE]

把你的黑车插入在屁股里面 should be sufficient to get idea across. Though there's probably a more natural idiom out there...

No idiom, not used in Mandarin. Similar to refering to someone as turtle egg..doesn't translate to english understandably.

[QUOTE=mnredfox;17483581]jiejie, your mandarin must really have improved because even I don't know how to say that!
QUOTE]

把你的黑车插入在屁股里面 should be sufficient to get idea across. Though there's probably a more natural idiom out there...

Impressive, seems right to me. Instead of 插入 you can also just use 放, but the former is more illustrative I suppose.

Then again, this is using our English slang and directly translating to Chinese, not sure if you'll get the affect you need.

[QUOTE=jiejie;17483841]

Impressive, seems right to me. Instead of 插入 you can also just use 放, but the former is more illustrative I suppose.

Then again, this is using our English slang and directly translating to Chinese, not sure if you'll get the affect you need.

Oh it may not be perfect Chinese or in keeping with untranslatable idioms, but she definitely got the message! Part of it is delivery--I am talented at snarling at pesky touts and vendors. ;)

[QUOTE=jiejie;17483841]
Then again, this is using our English slang and directly translating to Chinese, not sure if you'll get the affect you need.

Simpler and not as offensive:

bì zuǐ - Shut Up

Why so rude when people are just trying to make a living?

It might not be the best way to make a sale but that lady is still a human being and trying to make ends meet.

Just ignoring them or saying that you are not interested would more than suffice.



Or "hei che." By this we mean black market taxis, not literally color of the cab. Yes, beware of touts that approach you. Yesterday I arrived back in Beijing on a domestic flight, and was heading towards the escalator down to the legit taxi queue on the lower level. When a lady literally leaped off her bench and went straight for me asking in English "taxi? where you go?". Clearly targeting the obvious foreigner and not any Chinese person. Of course, I snarled at her, told her I was a Beijingren, and go stuff her hei che where it won't easily fit. And proceeded to queue. Non-Mandarin speakers may just safely ignore these pests and proceed to the taxi queue, following the clear signage in the terminal.

Sounds rude to me.

A simple "bu yao" is enough, which is "dont want".



[QUOTE=mnredfox;17488118]

Simpler and not as offensive:

bì zuǐ - Shut Up

Why so rude when people are just trying to make a living?

It might not be the best way to make a sale but that lady is still a human being and trying to make ends meet.

Just ignoring them or saying that you are not interested would more than suffice.

I agree with you. I try my best to be civil with taxi drivers, including touts, because it's a really crappy job. The murder attempt I witnessed a few years back was an eye opener, to say the least. The reason many taxi drivers are not intelligent is that even McDonalds pays more money these days. My advice to the forum is: 1) give drivers a wide berth; and 2) always know where you are going.... while addresses are almost completely useless in Beijing, the layout of the city is rather idiot proof, and there are some pretty slick iPhone aps out there.

Just ignoring them or saying that you are not interested would more than suffice.
^ I usually just walk past and ignore them. If they start to walk with me I tell them I'm not interested and they usually go away. I have asked a few touts if they thought I was stupid when they tried to offer me offensively inflated fares (like 3x or more) but I've never actually been nasty to any of them. I get no satisfaction from being rude to others.

We also took our first trip to China in late September (Beijing, Suzhou and Shanghai). I noticed the OP said that the Summer Palace was "outside the city" and "quite a while away". We had read in the guidebooks that you can take the metro most of the way there, but then you have to take a taxi the rest of the way. We were happy to discover that one of the newer metro lines (can't remember which number) goes all the way to the Summer Palace, so no need for a taxi (if you're cheap like me :D ).

BTW, we learned to refer to it as the "metro" or train after twice asking an English-speaking Chinese person for directions to the subway and being directed to a sandwich shop!

The situation JJ is refering to, involves fraud perpetrated on foreigners at theCapital airport. Its clearly theft by deceit. What a great first impression of China.
"My first experience visiting China, I got ripped off by the taxi driver from the airport to my hotel. Then day 2, I visited the most historic landmark in the Capital city and got ripped off in a tea scam."

These two scams could be shut down immediately. Just as they both were for 08 Olympics.

Sounds rude to me.

A simple "bu yao" is enough, which is "dont want".



Something wrong with quotes, since I didn't say your quoted quote.

Moondog - Perhaps it wasn't 500 yuan, may be like 300 but couldn't clearly remember. It was the SIM card and like 150 Yuan in mins and free incoming + free Beijing mins so I never ended up using much.

And yep glad to give it to the next poster leaving for China needing a SIM Card.

Yikes. The corner newstand near my office sells either a 60Y or a 100Y card, with 30Y and 50Y airtime respectively. I wasn't thinking and got the 100Y card, and realised it was more expensive because it came with silly services like music downloads and such. Even then, I think it took me more than a month to use up the 50Y airtime - and that included a fair bit of international SMSs and calls. I got my local mobile line just as it ran out, so have not tried to top up a local prepaid card so far. But even at 300Y it is a lot of money.

Why so rude when people are just trying to make a living?

It might not be the best way to make a sale but that lady is still a human being and trying to make ends meet.

Just ignoring them or saying that you are not interested would more than suffice.

^ I usually just walk past and ignore them. If they start to walk with me I tell them I'm not interested and they usually go away. I have asked a few touts if they thought I was stupid when they tried to offer me offensively inflated fares (like 3x or more) but I've never actually been nasty to any of them. I get no satisfaction from being rude to others.

Belated response here, but please spare the sanctimonious comments about rudeness to touts, et al, when you don't know the situation. This particular woman wasn't out and about in the crowd looking for any takers per your usual tout, she was sitting on a bench and when she spotted me I was at least 30 meters away (i.e. not close). She leaped off that bench and practically jogged over to me, knocking over a small child and an elderly couple in her path. In other words, I was specifically targeted and it was because she had me pegged as a gullible foreigner. That goes well beyond the typical "tout" and into the realm of "cheat" or "pianzi" if you prefer the Chinese. And she wasn't the actual driver providing the service (with whom I would have been more lenient)--she was the spotter looking for a patsy.

Verbal rudeness is mean you say? Well let me hurt your sensibilities even more....if my hands hadn't been full, I'd have punched her in the gut. I really, really don't like being targeted for a set-up.


The situation JJ is refering to, involves fraud perpetrated on foreigners at theCapital airport. Its clearly theft by deceit. What a great first impression of China.
"My first experience visiting China, I got ripped off by the taxi driver from the airport to my hotel. Then day 2, I visited the most historic landmark in the Capital city and got ripped off in a tea scam."

These two scams could be shut down immediately. Just as they both were for 08 Olympics.

Indeed on both bolds.

Verbal rudeness is mean you say? Well let me hurt your sensibilities even more....if my hands hadn't been full, I'd have punched her in the gut. I really, really don't like being targeted for a set-up.


Maybe I don't know what it's like to be a very visible foreigner in China, but I'm sure punching someone would have gone over well with all the bystanders. That would really make a good impression of Americans abroad. ^

Maybe I don't know what it's like to be a very visible foreigner in China, but I'm sure punching someone would have gone over well with all the bystanders. That would really make a good impression of Americans abroad. ^

Please, it's not like China is land of the Boy Scouts. While I don't necessarily advocate physical violence, I once decked a guy that tried to lift my wallet.... reflexive.

Maybe I don't know what it's like to be a very visible foreigner in China, but I'm sure punching someone would have gone over well with all the bystanders. That would really make a good impression of Americans abroad. ^

:rolleyes: Not a problem. Whenever there are dirty deeds to be done, I make sure everybody knows I'm French.

The OP was very informative and there are a couple items that caught my attention that I wasn't previously aware of, particularly the sim card issue. The two of us traveling will have a bb and iPhone. I know my BB has a sim card (Verizon), so will it not work in China? Do I need to have a special type of sim card or cell phone?

We are traveling to both Beijing and Xi'an, and have hired personal guides in both locations, mostly since we'll be traveling with our two kids, to avoid any undue stress. These include transfers from/to train stations and airports. I am curious if the opening poster would share the name of the guide they were disappointed with?

For the locals there: one thing we read that might be interesting for our kids is visiting a kite-maker's shop where they can make a kite and flight it at the GW or Temple of heaven. Also, what about tai chi classes or cooking classes? Anyone have knowledge or can pass along info on those?

Any insights appreciated, especially for traveling with kids in Beijing and Xi'an (ages 10 & 11). Thanks!

Pdx ping me offline and I can share with you re guide.

Xian I didn't use a guide and you don't really need one if you are just walking around town, even with kids. As long as you are getting there in daylight you shouldn't really have an issue getting metered cabs at either Beijing or Xian airports (but if you don't mind spending the extra money then the transfers are great). Your hotel can also arrange the transfers/airport pick ups by the way.

As far as guides go, my suggestion would be do some research and figure out all the things you want to do and then direct the guide to take you there - without that you are very likely to end up with a guide that takes you to all the touristy or easiest spots for her.

Since you are going with young kids I would suggest the Beijing World Park which is just a fun place to see world architecture in miniature
(http://www.kinabaloo.com/wp.html)
Not everyone's cup of tea but was more interesting to me once I got tired of all the recently painted palaces/temples.

The OP was very informative and there are a couple items that caught my attention that I wasn't previously aware of, particularly the sim card issue. The two of us traveling will have a bb and iPhone. I know my BB has a sim card (Verizon), so will it not work in China? Do I need to have a special type of sim card or cell phone?

We are traveling to both Beijing and Xi'an, and have hired personal guides in both locations, mostly since we'll be traveling with our two kids, to avoid any undue stress. These include transfers from/to train stations and airports. I am curious if the opening poster would share the name of the guide they were disappointed with?

For the locals there: one thing we read that might be interesting for our kids is visiting a kite-maker's shop where they can make a kite and flight it at the GW or Temple of heaven. Also, what about tai chi classes or cooking classes? Anyone have knowledge or can pass along info on those?

Any insights appreciated, especially for traveling with kids in Beijing and Xi'an (ages 10 & 11). Thanks!

1) If your US phone is a GSM phone, triband or quadband type, it should work in China, and I'd recommend getting a Chinese SIM card when you arrive to stick in it temporarily in lieu of the US card--they are not expensive and the prepaid type lets you top up as you need. I don't know what your arrangement with Verizon is for international, but I wouldn't think you'd want to deal with international roaming fees.

2) Not sure you really need personal guides. Especially in Beijing, you might want to take this on a day by day basis, and not commit/pay for somebody you might wish to dispense with after the initial day!

3) China Culture Center has programs like this and if it's not on their regular schedule during your visit dates, can set something up privately. See website link below. They are used to setting up family- and kid-friendly stuff. They aren't the cheapest around but are very very good. If you are coming soon (winter), it's not really kite-flying season, but probably could make it happen. In fact, saw some old guys in a park bundled up and flying their kites a couple of weeks ago. Your kids are at a good age for travel to China. They aren't that young and are capable of doing quite a bit. I personally think the above suggestion of Beijing World Park is not the best use of time for a trip to Beijing.

http://www.chinaculturecenter.org/calendar/ In addition to checking out the calendar, also look under the tab "Cultural Programmes". Here's the direct link to the kite-making: http://www.chinaculturecenter.org/cultural_learning/eventdetail.php?eventid=278

1) If your US phone is a GSM phone, triband or quadband type, it should work in China, and I'd recommend getting a Chinese SIM card when you arrive to stick in it temporarily in lieu of the US card--they are not expensive and the prepaid type lets you top up as you need. I don't know what your arrangement with Verizon is for international, but I wouldn't think you'd want to deal with international roaming fees.


Actually I'm not convinced the posters phones will work.

BB Verizon has no SIM card AFAIK, it's a CDMA phone. And the iPhone (if ATT or Tmobile) will have a SIM card but if purchased in the US likely will not be unlocked.

Actually I'm not convinced the posters phones will work.

BB Verizon has no SIM card AFAIK, it's a CDMA phone. And the iPhone (if ATT or Tmobile) will have a SIM card but if purchased in the US likely will not be unlocked.

I'm pretty sure that Verizon BBs work in China (observation based on watching US vistors hammering away at those things).

Like I've mentioned in a few other threads, I have several spare phones (BJ sims) that I lend out to those in need.

Thanks for the help! I've looked into this further and my BB Verizon phone will definitely work - it's got loads of documentation/instructions with lists of countries (China and Hong Kong incuded) it can be used in and how to access each country's networks.

That said, I may just take jiejie's advice and moondog up on his offer, so as to avoid int'l roaming, but have some more work to do, so will let you know.

Private Guides:
To clarify, we haven't hired anyyet, but are planning to, at least in Beijing. However, we're not looking to have them the entire time, and in Xi'an, we're debating whether to have one at all, given our short time there.

We've read this elsewhere, but woudl like your input: is it true that when guides include things like 'a visit to a local factory to make your own miniature terracotta soldier' or 'a visit to a local silk manufacturer...' (emphases mine) that those should be avoided completely? We sense that the guides get kick-backs from these and aren't as genuine as they're represented to be (i.e. another tourist trap), even with private guides?

In our mind, if they can get us to places - either through special access or at times to avoid crowds - then they are valuable. But we've seen in Europe that they don't necessarily do this, so are wondering the same about China.

In Beijing - ALL of the private guides we're interviewing want to take us to visit a local family in the hutongs and 'learn to cook with the housewives.' Is this as commercialized as it sounds? It almost seems as though they are taking advantage of local families, but am open to being completely wrong on this. Your thoughts? Is it worth it and truly the insight into local Chinese culture as they tout?

Hopefully, you can gleen from my comments that we don't like 'canned' anything, especially culture. We've experienced the genuine thing multiple times to know the difference, but with the language barrier (we'll learn a few very basic statements/requests in Mandarin), we think a guide would be helpful. Things with shows do interest us as we view those more as art forms rather than culture, but we may still shy away from the ones the guides are trying to take us to. Again - are these really good and we should reconsider, or do we avoid them?

Again, can't thank you all enough for the great insights and advice.

We've read this elsewhere, but woudl like your input: is it true that when guides include things like 'a visit to a local [B]factory to make your own miniature terracotta soldier' or 'a visit to a local silk manufacturer...' (emphases mine) that those should be avoided completely? We sense that the guides get kick-backs from these and aren't as genuine as they're represented to be (i.e. another tourist trap), even with private guides?

In our mind, if they can get us to places - either through special access or at times to avoid crowds - then they are valuable. But we've seen in Europe that they don't necessarily do this, so are wondering the same about China.

In Beijing - ALL of the private guides we're interviewing want to take us to visit a local family in the hutongs and 'learn to cook with the housewives.' Is this as commercialized as it sounds? It almost seems as though they are taking advantage of local families, but am open to being completely wrong on this. Your thoughts? Is it worth it and truly the insight into local Chinese culture as they tout?

Hopefully, you can gleen from my comments that we don't like 'canned' anything, especially culture. We've experienced the genuine thing multiple times to know the difference, but with the language barrier (we'll learn a few very basic statements/requests in Mandarin), we think a guide would be helpful. Things with shows do interest us as we view those more as art forms rather than culture, but we may still shy away from the ones the guides are trying to take us to. Again - are these really good and we should reconsider, or do we avoid them?

Again, can't thank you all enough for the great insights and advice.

1) You should consider any tour listing the words "factory" and "manufacturer" as red flags. In China, typical commercial guides are paid litle in salary, and most of their income comes from kickbacks and commissions when their clients purchases things at shops and factories. In this respect, a guide's interests are not aligned with yours, and your instincts are correct.

2) Guides can help purchase tickets, interpret, and know enough about the system to get you to the right gates, queues, etc. But unless you are some sort of VIP or getting a tour from some sort of senior official at the site you want to see, you're not going to get "special access" to anywhere from a regular commercial tour gude. And in China, most commercial guides are sadly not any more knowledgeable than what you can get from a good guidebook and advance internet research. There are some exceptions, but they are pretty rare. If you want to "meet the natives" but feel language is a barrier, then taking along an English-speaking Chinese university student for a few hours to a park or neighborhood or something to act as interpreter, could work out. Pay the student a small stipend and provide their lunch and transport as part of the family. A student can provide personal insights into modern China, their daily urban life, education system, etc. Important: make sure it's a person of your (advance) choosing and not a "student" coming up to you on the street--as there is a chance the latter could be a scammer. Especially REFUSE to go to any "tea tastings" or "tea ceremonies" or "see art show." Normally traveling families with children in tow aren't targeted with these scams, but you never know....

3) No, the guides aren't taking advantage of the local families...rather, the local families that participate in this are doing it for extra income. That said, I do think your example is an activity that yes, is rather contrived. I think the essence of the "cooking with the housewives" mostly entails watching the featured housewife toss a bunch of chopped ingredients into oil the wok and stirring them around. I would not recommend a visitor take this canned tour. It's not that it's as bad as the "jade factory" type of stop--you would get some value and fun out of it. I just think a better idea is to either walk or rent bikes and self-tour the hutongs as a family without a guide. As with much of Beijing, your eyes, ears, nose, and a map or guidebook to follow will be all the tools you need. Then separately (in advance) set up a Chinese cooking, dumpling- or noodle-making, etc. with a place that can give you proper instruction and explanation, and that the kids can specifically participate in and make memories as well as something to eat (or kites, or lanterns, or whatever).

4) Relative to both points 2 and 3 above, this is one reason I suggested China Culture Center--they are not a commercial tour agency and are exactly what their name says. They are geared to expats wanting some insights into the "real deal." (Though short term visitors are welcome.) So their activities tend to use experts who can give real and deep explanations on whatever the subject is at hand, and an English-speaking CCC guide/translator goes along. I have done a bunch of things with them over the years (activities and neighborhood walks in Beijing, day trips to Cuandixia and similar, weekend trips to Datong and Tianjin, lectures and presentations, etc.) and in 9 years, have never had a poor experience yet.

For your short time in Xi'an, I would research and make your family's own priority list. Keeping the kids in mind, I would have the Warriors, Old City Walls, Big Goose Pavilion, Muslim Quarter on that list, which will fill a complete day. Xi'an has tons of other stuff to see but considering what you are likely to be seeing in Beijing, you don't want to overdose on the ancient China/museum stuff. The most valuable thing you can have for Xi'an to reduce stress (which will be on you, not the kids BTW), is transportation--a private car and driver. With a family, I wouldn't do a time-limited trip to Xi'an any other way, as it will be more time-and cost-effective than trying to fool around with public transport and taxis. Xi'an sights are spread out and unlike Beijing, there's no handy and extensive subway system. So, arrange for that car + driver in advance. They'll probably toss in an English-speaking "guide" as well. Fine. Just don't take a "canned" off-the-shelf tour. Have an agency (preferably one you've received a personal recommendation for) take your list, add the airport transfers, and give you a price. Make it clear whether you want entry fees included or that you will pay them separately at each venue. (Don't underestimate this cost, entry fees in China have gotten expensive over the last 2-3 years.) Tell them "no meals" and "no shopping stops" therefore put guide's compensation into the price. Also tell them you will have the guide help you choose a convenient place to eat at lunchtime, help you choose dishes, and you will pay for guide and driver's meals as well as your own, at the restaurant as you go. (Guide will usually eat with you at the table, driver will not but will sit elsewhere or prefer to do his own thing.)

For Beijing you have more options. Again, the most valuable thing you can have is for a trip to the Great Wall, and that is transportation out from the city and back. You really don't need a guide for that, just a driver who may not speak English, but who knows what the plan is. I would recommend Mutianyu since it is a good view, less crowded than Badaling, yet not horribly far away. With kids that age, they can do some hiking but not lots like an older teenager could, so I'd not sign up for any 4-hour hiking sections at Jinshanling or anything like that. Mutianyu has the toboggan to get off the wall, which is always a top draw for the kids (and adults who are kids-at-heart.)

For most everything else in Beijing, the transportation aspect is less important if you geographically group your sights, knowing that Beijing is spread out so zig-zagging all over the city is a time-waster. Taxis and subway (depending on destination) can be used. Sometimes subway is a lot faster and at only 2 RMB per ride of any distance including transfers, is a great bargain of the World and user-friendly. So the only reason to use a guide in Beijing is if you really want some insight into a sight. Tip: at most major tourist sights, and even a lot of minor ones, you can hire an English-speaking staff member/guide just for that site, who might actually know something about the place. If they don't happen to have an English-speaker around on site, this is where that university student "friend of the family" can help with interpreting. So Beijing has a lot of room for daily flexibility on how you want to see and experience various places.

Don't waste any time on tours with factory or anything to do with buying stuff (as jiejie says). You will just waste your time.

If you want stuff to buy, there will always be street hawkers outside the famous places selling stuff for cheap. Unless you want to blow money, you can always buy cheap at these places.