Travel Tools - Valuations of reward points

I keep reading that spg reward points are more valuable than hilton and other hotel reward programs. Can someone explain why that is? I did a mock booking on spg and hilton. This is what i got. Using same dates, spg was about 3 cents/pts. $ divided by pts.
Assuming i mostly use the spg card that gets me only 1 pt per $1 i spend.
Now, hilton, i see around $.003/pt.
But then i realized that hilton amex card gives me 6pts on certain purchases besides buying things from their hotel properties. So i divided the required pts for a free night booking and did the math again. Their pt value was about same as the spg.
So unless, im spending more on my spg card on getting more than 1pt per $1, spg and hilton cards might be the same value for me or ppl that would use those cards just like me. Am i correct?

I don't know, but I'm pretty sure the residents of Milesbuzz! will be able to answer your question, so I'll move it over there :)

Jenbel
Co-moderator, Communitybuzz!

No one?

Far from the most knowledgeable but I'll give it a go.

When computing something like which is worth more, you have to consider how the points are accumulated - which is what you are alluding to.

For people who never pay for a hotel stay and generate all of their miles from credit cards, it is easy to say that the top Hyatt property goes for 22,000 points per night versus 35,000 for Starwood and 50,000+ for Hilton. So it seems that Hyatt points are worth more than twice as much as Hilton and 50% more than Starwood.

But then you might want to figure in that SPG often has Points and Cash available that can stretch points quite a bit.

And then you have to look at those who earn primarily by staying at hotels. How many points do they get per dollar? Are they elite and, if so, how many EXTRA points do they get?

And if using a credit card, how many points per dollar for everyday stuff? Any special spend categories that give extra points?

As you can see it is pretty confusing! After years on FT, my sense is that people use these numbers the way they want to in order to prove whatever their individual hypothesis is! And that's without even getting into the difference in value between transferring to air miles and arguing over value of a point for a coach seat versus First Class!

There have been a slew of mile promotions from credit cards over the last two years. Until then, I primarily used the SPG AMEX - liked SPG and liked how easy it was to turn into air miles with a bonus. Now I have a bunch of air miles and I like the fact that I can guarantee a suite with Hyatt for a whole lot fewer points than a similar Hyatt (Hyatt charges 50% more of a lower number while SPG charges 2x a higher number).

There are so many variables that trying to condense it down to a simple number is pretty meaningless. And I can't imagine that helped at all!;) But since you asked about SPG versus Hilton, I would say that if you don't have high elite status, Hilton has a major advantage in that Gold Elite (not hard to get) gets free breakfast and that is a tangible savings.

Don't forget to factor in the amount of miles you are forgoing by staying and using miles.

If you sign up for MileWise the site tells you the value of each account you have. AA recently was taken off the site which makes it to me much less useful now however.

Cash and points stay are the best value using SPG. But you can also transfer SPG points to AA. You get a bonus 5k for every 20k transferred.

Cash and points stay are the best value using SPG. But you can also transfer SPG points to AA. You get a bonus 5k for every 20k transferred.Is it true that you will no longer be able to transfer spg points in 2012?

The answer to your question is "It depends."

"Point" is meaningless. Deciding what to go for comes down to how many you can earn per dollar or stay in each program and what you get when you spend them. Unfortunately, this changes all the time.

It also helps if the hotel chain has properties of the type you want in the places you desire to go.

And bonuses skew things until they expire and you then move on to the next thing.

Final thought: Since Hilton and Starwood are direct competitors most places, it is logical that their rates of rewards should be in the same ballpark.

Is it true that you will no longer be able to transfer spg points in 2012?

Where did you hear this?

Let's run through an intellectual exercise.

Let's say you want to stay in downtown Chicago this Saturday night, in any 4* hotel.

We'll look at roughly comparable hotels in SPG and Hilton.

In points:
Westin River North - 12000
W City Center - 12000
Hilton Chicago - 50000
Palmer House Hilton - 50000

In dollars: (plus tax)
Westin River North - $305
W City Center - $299
Hilton Chicago - $229
Palmer House Hilton - $259

So which $ number do I use to calculate the value of the points? The answer, of course, is $117.47 - which is the actual cost of the Hilton Chicago that date, taxes and fees included, on priceline.

Thus, in this scenario, the value of an SPG point is (117.47/12000) = $0.0098 and Hilton is $0.0023.

...which is why, if you are rather indifferent which 4* hotel you end up visiting, you'll avoid Hilton entirely and cash in SPG points for airline miles. If you value an airline mile extremely conservatively at, say, $0.012 per mile, you get an SPG point value of ($0.012 x 1.25) = $0.015, if you transfer 20k with a 5k bonus.

IMO SPG points are worth at least 4-5 cents per point if used wisely- either on SMART airline transfers or cash+points reservations.

IMO SPG points are worth at least 4-5 cents per point if used wisely- either on SMART airline transfers or cash+points reservations.

Can you show us an example of this?

Let's run through an intellectual exercise.

...which is why, if you are rather indifferent which 4* hotel you end up visiting, you'll avoid Hilton entirely and cash in SPG points for airline miles. If you value an airline mile extremely conservatively at, say, $0.012 per mile, you get an SPG point value of ($0.012 x 1.25) = $0.015, if you transfer 20k with a 5k bonus.

I think to draw a gigantic sweeping conclusion like that, you need to repeat this exercise about 100000 times with different sets of starting conditions.

Is it true that you will no longer be able to transfer spg points in 2012?
There has been no announcement, or even a reliable rumor, to that effect.

So which $ number do I use to calculate the value of the points? The answer, of course, is $117.47 - which is the actual cost of the Hilton Chicago that date, taxes and fees included, on priceline.
I disagree. Your Priceline purchase is nonrefundable. Apart from very rare exceptions, points (or points + cash) reservations get you valuable flexibility. Instead of starting a long debate about the precise value of that flexibility -- which will naturally vary according to individual circumstance -- I'll simply make the claim that it has value significantly greater than $0. (Note that Loyalty Traveler blogger Ric Garrido takes the same view (http://boardingarea.com/blogs/loyaltytraveler/2011/05/09/hilton-hhonors-rate-analysis-for-points-money-and-premium-room-rewards/).)

Discuss.
;)

Can you show us an example of this?

I will give an example using Marriott Points that I did last Spring for my honeymoon.

Marriott has a multiple options of a hotel + flight package - this is the one I chose:
270,000 points for 7 night stay (at a cat 5 Marriott) and 120,000 airline miles to United

Everything from here forward is for the best retail prices I could find when I was planning my honeymoon -

Hotel: Retail value of 165 GBP per night
165 GBP x 1.6 GBP/$ x 7 nights = $1848 + taxes
Approximate retail value $2000


Flight: Base retail value of business class ticket $5500
105,000 points per ticket for the reward on United + $250 in taxes and fees

Approximate retail Value of a single ticket = $5500 - $250 taxes = $5250

120,000 (points from marriott to airline) /105,000 (cost for ticket on airline) = 1.143 means that my Marriot reward gives me slightly more points than required for one ticket

1.143 x $5250 = $6000


Total value of the package: Hotel + Flight
$2000 + $6000 = $8000

Value per Marriott Point
$8000 / 270,000 = $0.0296 / point

for a final value of about 3 cents per point retail

Many moons ago, Lucky did an excellent blog post in which he discussed the value of points in certain programs, to be found here (http://boardingarea.com/blogs/onemileatatime/2010/06/27/whats-a-mile-or-point-worth/#comments). This is a good starting point and certainly not the final word, but if all you want is a reasonable estimate, he does a lot of the work for you.

Mike

Many moons ago, Lucky did an excellent blog post in which he discussed the value of points in certain programs, to be found here (http://boardingarea.com/blogs/onemileatatime/2010/06/27/whats-a-mile-or-point-worth/#comments). This is a good starting point and certainly not the final word, but if all you want is a reasonable estimate, he does a lot of the work for you.
Note that Ben/Lucky did an update (WRT airline miles only, not hotel points) earlier this month at http://travelsort.com/blog/updated-analysis-of-what-a-mile-is-worth

Numbers for Next Summer:

HHonors Points for Hilton Anaheim or DoubleTree Closest to Disneyland - 30,000/night (Cash $124-249/night)

SPG Points for closest 2 Sheratons to Disneyland - 7,000/night (Cash $159-169/night)

Price per Point in Hilton - .4 cents to .83 cents

Price per Point in Sheraton - 2.2-2.4 cents

We use both programs. HHonors Amex (no fee) is wonderful at 6 points/$ spent on groceries, pharmacy, and utilities. SPG is our go-to for almost everything else, though we have a couple of cards for which we get 2 cents/$ on dining or 2-5 cents/$ on gasoline & convenience store that we also use regularly. There also are some places which don't take Amex.

Sorry for the family tourist trap vaca example, but that's where we are for several years until the kids really are into going to Europe. Our oldest would go to Europe tomorrow, but she probably will enjoy it more as a teenager than as a preschooler.

Note that Ben/Lucky did an update (WRT airline miles only, not hotel points) earlier this month at http://travelsort.com/blog/updated-analysis-of-what-a-mile-is-worth

I didn't know that, thanks!

Mike

Part of the problem is the question you are asking and how you are looking at it. It's not a full blown case of 'apples to oranges' but it's close.

If you are just looking at the value of the point and what you can get from it, then SPG points are some of the best (if not the best). But when you start looking at credit card earning/offers, points earned through stays, etc the discussion is now more about the loyalty program rather than just the value of the points. When looking at the entire program then there's a lot more to discuss (and points are just a portion of it).

The reason so many people say that SPG points are the most valuable is because of their ability to be converted to airline miles. 20k SPG points will turn into 25k miles in most airline programs. When redeemed for international business class or first class tickets, you get a huge dollar value return for your points. 80k SPG points could get you a plane ticket that costs $5k, which gives a face value of 6.25 cents per point. It is another discussion, however, in how you value these since most people would never actually pay the price of a business or first class ticket on those itineraries.

For the OP, it sounds like you are looking at the value of the two credit cards (which would be your main source for points earnings). In that case you have two things to look at: value/flexibility of the points, what you want to get out of the points, and earn rate of the points. If a SPG point is worth 2x what a Hilton point is, but you can build Hilton points 3x a fast with the Hilton card, then the Hilton will be the best choice. You should be able to look at your annual spend and figure this out fairly easily. Also take into account what you want to use the points for, and how easy it is to use those points for what you want.

I think to draw a gigantic sweeping conclusion like that, you need to repeat this exercise about 100000 times with different sets of starting conditions.

Apart from very rare exceptions, points (or points + cash) reservations get you valuable flexibility.
I'm glad my extreme position could prompt at least some discussion. :D

The point I'm trying to make - which I'm sure everyone caught - is that FT members have this very annoying habit of taking the other extreme: that points are worth the retail price of very nice hotel rooms, which is equally ludicrous.

Much more often than not, when you have chain indifference and are looking at even a moderately sized city, you can pick up a 4* room on priceline quite easily for half the retail price or less. Quite often, the price is so low, you can add on "elite" perks like club access and still pay less than half. There is plenty of data on the Internet to support those assertions.

It's simply foolish to pass that up without at least acknowledging the potential waste of $.

Points are much more valuable in edge cases. Maybe there's a big event in the city yet there is still some reward availability left. Maybe you're in a rural location where lack of competition keeps retail rates artificially high. Maybe you actually need last-second cancellation capability.

But if we're all being honest with each other, how often do any of us really need those things? In that sense, hotel points could work better as an insurance policy in low quantities.

Might be interesting to conduct a study. Take a cross-section of FT members, track hotel redemptions, compare to actual availability thru opaque and other methods, then determine real world point valuations.

Can you show us an example of this?

Alrighty, SPG transfer to LAN at a 2:5 ratio- so 20K SPG points earns 50K LAN points. On one way rewards under 500km long LAN charges 6K points one way- or 12K round trip (4.8K SPG points). A revenue flight on some of these flights can and probably will exceed $240, meaning one can easily get 5 cents per point or more.

Numbers for Next Summer:

HHonors Points for Hilton Anaheim or DoubleTree Closest to Disneyland - 30,000/night (Cash $124-249/night)

SPG Points for closest 2 Sheratons to Disneyland - 7,000/night (Cash $159-169/night)

Price per Point in Hilton - .4 cents to .83 cents

Price per Point in Sheraton - 2.2-2.4 cents

We use both programs. HHonors Amex (no fee) is wonderful at 6 points/$ spent on groceries, pharmacy, and utilities. SPG is our go-to for almost everything else, though we have a couple of cards for which we get 2 cents/$ on dining or 2-5 cents/$ on gasoline & convenience store that we also use regularly. There also are some places which don't take Amex.

Sorry for the family tourist trap vaca example, but that's where we are for several years until the kids really are into going to Europe. Our oldest would go to Europe tomorrow, but she probably will enjoy it more as a teenager than as a preschooler.

Maybe when I posted this thread, I didn't explain myself well or I did and I just don't get it. I will use LOWFLYOVER's post as an example.

He's final result is that SPG is a better value. BUT, what I'm seeing is this...
In order for me to get 7,000 SPG pts, I need to spend $7,000 if I'm not getting 2x or more pts from staying at their properties. HHilton, I will get 6x if I spend on food, utilities, phone, gas, etc.. (which is very easy to do) So if I divide 30,000 by 6, that's $5,000 I will need to spend.

So for similiar properties, I would rather spend $5,000 than $7,000..

no?

From what I see, people divide the cost by points. But I think the more accurate formula should be "total pts for 1 night" by "how many pts you get on avg. per $", then divide the cost by the new pts #. Which comes out to HHilton 2.5 - 5 cents not LOWFLYOVER's number of .4 - .83

Maybe when I posted this thread, I didn't explain myself well or I did and I just don't get it. I will use LOWFLYOVER's post as an example.

He's final result is that SPG is a better value. BUT, what I'm seeing is this...
In order for me to get 7,000 SPG pts, I need to spend $7,000 if I'm not getting 2x or more pts from staying at their properties. HHilton, I will get 6x if I spend on food, utilities, phone, gas, etc.. So if I divide 30,000 by 6, that's $5,000 I will need to spend.

So for similiar properties, I would rather spend $5,000 than $7,000..

no?

Sure, but for many people the % of their spend on categories that earn 6x is minuscule relative to their total spend. If that's not the case for you then the HH card makes sense. For me it wouldn't.

Hotel point math can get crazier than airline mileage math because the hotel programs all have such different fundamental structures. Therefore, your paid stay, credit card, and redemption pattern can drive you to a very different "ideal program" than another FT'er. By contrast, the three big airline alliances tend to follow relatively similar structures, making comparisons between them a bit simpler.

Most head-to-head hotel comparisons inevitably force one of the two programs into a suboptimal position. Any one-night comparison is going to make Marriott look bad because that program isn't built for one-nighters. Any 7-night + 120,000 air miles redemption will make Marriott look great because that's the primary award their program is structured around. A four-nighter probably makes HH look better; a five-nighter makes SPG and MR look better than HH. Some things, like the ability to do C&P or confirm award suites, aren't available at all in some programs.

To get to my own valuations of points, I look at how *I* like to use them. Marriott for Travel Packages. Starwood for C&P in Asia and the Euro zone and occasionally for a 5-night award. HH for resort stays (4- or 6-nighters). Then I map that back to my paid stay options and ability to retain the elite statuses necessary to really get the best value from these programs. In some years, that means I primarily spend with one CC (HH Amex or SPG Amex) even as I'm doing most of my stays in another chain.

I guess it just gets too crazy.. lol.
Wouldn't it be great if hotels and airlines were FORCED to use one system? :)

I keep reading that spg reward points are more valuable than hilton and other hotel reward programs.

That's a given. Your real question is which CC is right for you.

spg and hilton cards might be the same value for me or ppl that would use those cards just like me. Am i correct?

Sure. It all boils down to your personal preferences and usage. I have used SPG points for short stays at low category properties or nights & flights awards. Hhonors points have been used on VIP/GLON 4 night packages in places like NY and Paris. Based on my usage patterns and my spend categories (heavily weighted towards HH bonus categories), I find the two credit cards approximately equal for my use. The determining factor for me is the annual fee so I only keep the Hhonors AMEX.

I guess it just gets too crazy.. lol.


100% Agree with that! I have tried to tackle this subject (http://thetravelabstract.com/2011/07/01/miles-cost-vs-value/) before but it seems the more I get into it the more I talk myself into circles.

What I am starting to believe is that not only is there no set value for any single Reward/Loyalty Program. But that within the programs themselves there are completely different calculations for costing and valuing mileage and points. Not every mile costs the same amount and thus not every mile can bring you the same value. It is dependent on the persons unique accrual history.

It's simply foolish to pass that up without at least acknowledging the potential waste of $.

I think this is true as well. Too often in this community do we think the miles are better than the $'s. We tend to overvalue our miles while many outside of our world completely write them off as useless.

So one dollar spent gets you one point spg which is worth 0.03 dollars.
One dollar spent gets you 6 points hilton which is worth 0.003 * 6 = 0.018.
0.03 is almost twice 0.018. No?
I keep reading that spg reward points are more valuable than hilton and other hotel reward programs. Can someone explain why that is? I did a mock booking on spg and hilton. This is what i got. Using same dates, spg was about 3 cents/pts. $ divided by pts.
Assuming i mostly use the spg card that gets me only 1 pt per $1 i spend.
Now, hilton, i see around $.003/pt.
But then i realized that hilton amex card gives me 6pts on certain purchases besides buying things from their hotel properties. So i divided the required pts for a free night booking and did the math again. Their pt value was about same as the spg.
So unless, im spending more on my spg card on getting more than 1pt per $1, spg and hilton cards might be the same value for me or ppl that would use those cards just like me. Am i correct?

I'm glad my extreme position could prompt at least some discussion. :D

The point I'm trying to make - which I'm sure everyone caught - is that FT members have this very annoying habit of taking the other extreme: that points are worth the retail price of very nice hotel rooms, which is equally ludicrous.


This is so true.

We have 80K+ household SPG points because frequently when we look to use them, the hotwire or priceline price makes it not economical.

Mostly because we have only SPG gold status and not platinum, so why pay 2x as much for a base room over the hotwire rate.

And then worst case you can often pay a few bucks to get an upgrade.

When a room is $xx on HW or $xx + yyyy pts, why spend the points to get a base room?

Same thing with that Carlson deal for 50K pts.

I guess it just gets too crazy.. lol.
Wouldn't it be great if hotels and airlines were FORCED to use one system? :)

No...I love the different systems!! I think a lot of FTers get really hung up on which on is "better". If you have a very predictable, well-defined travel pattern and you always tend to use a single kind of reward, then maybe one is better.

But if you don't, then why not diversify and play all the strengths? Getting to at least one top-tier hotel status is key, adding a couple mid-tiers is nice too, but any and all diversification you can do without sacrificing status only increases your future reward options.

The fact that SPG and HH both offer good general-spend credit cards really helps this a lot. Both of these cards are more powerful than your typical airline miles card.

Then maybe you'll have a year where you do a 7-night urban stay, a 6-night resort stay, and a whole bunch of short Cash & Points stays and you'll think "Wow, all three of these hotel programs are great!!" ^

I don't think of diversification quite the same way with airlines because those programs are similar and there aren't easy shortcuts into mid- or top-tier status. (In other words, I don't fly enough EQMs to split them up too much without giving away a status tier.) But with BA's new program setting up as a strong short-haul award program, I'm starting to think that way a bit more. Maybe BA/AA will become my program to short-hop around North America and Europe and *A will become my long-haul/premium cabin program.

Let's run through an intellectual exercise.

Let's say you want to stay in downtown Chicago this Saturday night, in any 4* hotel.

We'll look at roughly comparable hotels in SPG and Hilton.

In points:
Westin River North - 12000
W City Center - 12000
Hilton Chicago - 50000
Palmer House Hilton - 50000

In dollars: (plus tax)
Westin River North - $305
W City Center - $299
Hilton Chicago - $229
Palmer House Hilton - $259

So which $ number do I use to calculate the value of the points? The answer, of course, is $117.47 - which is the actual cost of the Hilton Chicago that date, taxes and fees included, on priceline.

Thus, in this scenario, the value of an SPG point is (117.47/12000) = $0.0098 and Hilton is $0.0023.

...which is why, if you are rather indifferent which 4* hotel you end up visiting, you'll avoid Hilton entirely and cash in SPG points for airline miles. If you value an airline mile extremely conservatively at, say, $0.012 per mile, you get an SPG point value of ($0.012 x 1.25) = $0.015, if you transfer 20k with a 5k bonus.

I see it very differently. I travel exclusively for pleasure and usually with my daughters. We are locked into the school schedule and travel on Christmas week, President's week and Easter week. I can't get the Westin St. John, St. Martin or Tremblant, Hilton Barbados or Whistler, or Marriott Grand Cayman via priceline. I have redeemed SPG up to $.09/point. This weekend we are staying at the Parker Meridian (the only NYC hotel with a pool on the roof) for two nights @ 24,000 SPG points. The room goes for over $600 a night! At Hilton I get up to $.02/point.

We are locked into the school schedule and travel on Christmas week, President's week and Easter week.
Your situation is different - and I wonder how common it really is.

I suspect there are quite a few of us who stay with family/friends in those peak times and vacation at off-times.

You can still come up with a more reasonable valuation than retail price, though. If you couldn't use SPG points to get the Parker Meridian, you wouldn't pay $600. How much WOULD you pay? Would you have a reasonable backup plan - such as staying across the river and taking PATH in?

Maybe not - maybe the Parker Meridian is what you really want for this trip. No other acceptable alternative.

Ok, but those SPG points were still not free. Even if you are getting $0.05/pt in your example, those points had a cost, especially if they are from credit card spend. All else being equal, an SPG credit card point "costs" 2 cents each, compared to a 2% cash back card.

The Parker Meridian would need to sell for more than $240 before it's a better deal to use 12,000 points than take 2% cash back. Actually a bit more, since a paid stay would be points earning. There are plenty of times when that hotel will sell a room retail for that price. Not on your particular dates but many, many other dates.

In points:
Westin River North - 12000
W City Center - 12000
Hilton Chicago - 50000
Palmer House Hilton - 50000




HHonors Points for Hilton Anaheim or DoubleTree Closest to Disneyland - 30,000/night (Cash $124-249/night)

SPG Points for closest 2 Sheratons to Disneyland - 7,000/night (Cash $159-169/night)


This is the thing I've been seeing recently, it seems to take so many less points to get a room using SPG points than Hilton. I am fairly new to the hotel game and my husband got the HH Amex and Citi cards, so we are mainly using those points, but it seems like for so many of the rooms they want 25,000+ points. And I'm talking places like Memphis, etc, not some fancy resort on an island. I've heard of SPG rooms even going for 2,000 or 3,000 a night! This is what I'm trying to figure out, if I could get rooms for way less points with SPG. It seems like the points needed for a HH rooms are very high.

This is the thing I've been seeing recently, it seems to take so many less points to get a room using SPG points than Hilton.
That's a difference in design. SPG points have "always" (as long as I've been in the game) been worth more than any other hotel program.

A good way to look at it is to compare their value in a relatively neutral currency. If you look at redemption for a US-domestic airline mile, you see

Hilton 6.67 to 1
SPG 0.8 to 1

Right there, you see SPG points worth far more in a conversion. Many of us see similar disparities in hotel redemptions.

Guys...let's drop the awful Chicago comparison - it's only confusing matters. All four of those hotels are terrible places to burn award points unless the freaking Super Bowl is at Soldier Field. (Which I totally think they should do someday but that's another thread.) Way too easy to get a good room in Chicago for either cash or a lot less in reward currency than that.

Palmer House? 50,000 points? No thanks, my last room there a year ago was about 90 bucks. Decent hotel...so is the Chicago Hilton, and the Drake, and the Conrad, but to justify 50k HH I'd need to be seeing the entire city selling at $500+ a night and that simply never happens in Chicago.

Holding a New Year's reservation for the Sheraton Chicago (a pretty new hotel and a very good specimen for a Sheraton) for $112/nt.

NYC is kind of a nice sweet spot for IHG in my opinion... I've had an IH room there on weekends when everything remotely desirable was in the $300's plus tax. (NYC isn't a place I want to Priceline unless I'm the only person in the room and I'm not going to be in the room much at all.) That ends up being close to a penny a point on PC which isn't bad at all...

A good way to look at it is to compare their value in a relatively neutral currency. If you look at redemption for a US-domestic airline mile, you see

Hilton 1.67 or 2 to 1
SPG 0.8 to 1

Right there, you see SPG points worth at least twice as much in a conversion. Many of us see an even greater disparity in hotel redemptions.

I wouldn't even go too far with that. All it really does is illustrate which one destroys value less when you can't find any good uses at all for them as hotel stays. (And isn't HH more like 5 to 1?) I don't know anyone who gets into HH thinking that they're going to convert the points to miles. I see it discussed a little more with SPG, although I don't understand the fascination. I see it discussed a lot with Marriott since the air miles conversions are a major part of their biggest and best awards.

I still think people should determine how they can best leverage each program - either its stated strengths or the way you already know you'd use the points - and then work backwards from there.

(And isn't HH more like 5 to 1?)
Yep, I was looking at the wrong chart... Fixed it.

I don't know anyone who gets into HH thinking that they're going to convert the points to miles. I see it discussed a little more with SPG, although I don't understand the fascination.
Lots of churners in the HH cards threads explicitly discuss plans to convert directly to miles but that's not especially relevant to this thread.

But SPG is easy to understand if what you really want is the $112 Sheraton for New Years. Why wouldn't you convert to miles?

I've been working on my own planning for next year. Given the travel that is likely, I get

SPG All-points hotel reward = 0.012
SPG Cash&Points = 0.011
SPG conversions to AA miles = 0.020

So I'll actually probably sit on the SPG points until I run low on AA miles. For comparison, I get 0.003 for Hilton. Hopefully there are bonus free night voucher promotions this year, otherwise I see a lot of cash payments in my future.

I wouldn't even go too far with that. All it really does is illustrate which one destroys value less when you can't find any good uses at all for them as hotel stays. (And isn't HH more like 5 to 1?) I don't know anyone who gets into HH thinking that they're going to convert the points to miles. I see it discussed a little more with SPG, although I don't understand the fascination. I see it discussed a lot with Marriott since the air miles conversions are a major part of their biggest and best awards.

I still think people should determine how they can best leverage each program - either its stated strengths or the way you already know you'd use the points - and then work backwards from there.

It's the flexibility- not the fact that SPG can be converted into miles, but it can be converted into miles of more or less any airline program. That's the real seller here.

What's the benefit of this flexibility?
It's the flexibility- not the fact that SPG can be converted into miles, but it can be converted into miles of more or less any airline program. That's the real seller here.

Guys...let's drop the awful Chicago comparison - it's only confusing matters. All four of those hotels are terrible places to burn award points unless the freaking Super Bowl is at Soldier Field. (Which I totally think they should do someday but that's another thread.) Way too easy to get a good room in Chicago for either cash or a lot less in reward currency than that.

Palmer House? 50,000 points? No thanks, my last room there a year ago was about 90 bucks. Decent hotel...so is the Chicago Hilton, and the Drake, and the Conrad, but to justify 50k HH I'd need to be seeing the entire city selling at $500+ a night and that simply never happens in Chicago.
Holding a New Year's reservation for the Sheraton Chicago (a pretty new hotel and a very good specimen for a Sheraton) for $112/nt.


I believe most domestic cities are in similar situation except when there are special events. NYC or Miami South Beach might be the exceptions.

2 weeks ago I used 12K SPG pts for W hotel at Hong Kong (not a necessity but just to try out that W which got rave reviews on TripAdvisor). It is a nice hotel and I even has gotten an upgrade to full ocean view (which is NOT the view of Central across Victoria Harbour due to W's location). While I dont feel it deserves the reviews posted on TripAdvisor, I do not regret to try it - after all, hotels in Hong Kong are very expensive - decent hotels in good locations are between HKD2000 to HKD2800 before 10% service fee and 5% tax, in most cases. JWM, Conrad, Grand Hyatt and even Renaissance, are in the HKD3500 and up region. (we exclude Penn and MO here in the discussion.)

OTOH, I used 2 x 15K Gold Passport points for Grand Hyatt Macau during the Macau Grand Prix weekend - that was a very good value as even the 2nd/3rd tier local hotels were at HKD1700 and up. Grand Hyatt's reward room type was sold at Prepaid rate HKD2880. Cancellable rate was a few hundreds higher.

So I did get my points worth, in a way.

Otherwise, I normally check HW or PCLN or other discount booking sites first before using the points.


NYC is kind of a nice sweet spot for IHG in my opinion... I've had an IH room there on weekends when everything remotely desirable was in the $300's plus tax. (NYC isn't a place I want to Priceline unless I'm the only person in the room and I'm not going to be in the room much at all.) That ends up being close to a penny a point on PC which isn't bad at all...

Agree IHG has some nice properties in the area. I hope they stay at their current point levels by the brands, and no premium added for the location.

You have to look at the totality of the program, not just the CC, for an integrated analysis.

Last Dec. I got 54 HH points per dollar for a Hilton stay, and a free HH night per 10 nights, which of course swamped any CC consideration.

This year the SPG "stay-3-get-1-resort night" was extremely attractive.

Club Carlson has been stepping it up lately. Then of course if Hyatt FFNs come back, we will all head over there.

My next big redemption will be at the Conrad Brussels, 30k a night, for a room that normally costs $500, and includes 2 amazing buffet breakfasts for Diamonds. So that is much more than .3 cents, IMO.

You have to watch all of them, all the time.

What's the benefit of this flexibility?

Look at the LAN example I mentioned earlier. 2.4K for one way sub 500km award, especially close to travel where walk up fares could be very high.

My next big redemption will be at the Conrad Brussels, 30k a night, for a room that normally costs $500, and includes 2 amazing buffet breakfasts for Diamonds. So that is much more than .3 cents, IMO.
I'm genuinely happy you can snag a redemption like that. Just doesn't fit my travel patterns... The one promo that has worked out fantastic has been the quarterly Cat 1-4 voucher promo from Marriott. Using them as fast as I can earn them.

Maybe I should be hanging out in the Travel Bidding forum. Cheapskates like me are kind of a nightmare for loyalty programs.

Why wouldn't you convert to miles?


Because I got a lot more value from SPG as hotel stays. It's just that Chicago's a uniquely poor place to use points because the city is full of very good hotels that can be had at quite reasonable rates - and (worst case) you know you can reliably Priceline some good hotels too.

(All of this is a compliment to Chicago - tons of good stuff at a near-Manhattan kind of quality without anywhere near that price!! Thus, serious hotel point users hang on to points for something better.)

My $90 room at Palmer House isn't a dig on Hilton - it's just saying that Hilton gives me solid value in Chicago without using HH points

I believe most domestic cities are in similar situation except when there are special events.

Agreed. I use most of my hotel points outside the U.S. Within the U.S., it's either Manhattan or a rural location for my award redemptions. Rural being solely due to personal preference more than amazing award value...I'd rather burn a tiny amount of points to get a brand I know than walk randomly into a Motel 6 and pay $50 for Lord-knows-what.

agreed...the best redemptions for either SPG or HH points are usually going to be in peak season in a metro area like NYC or SF (not Chicago) or for international travel.

Cash and points for SPG can also be a good way to get good value for short-notice trips as has been mentioned (a hotel may be $100 in cash or might be 1600 points + $30, so you get ~4c of value).

If you sign up for MileWise the site tells you the value of each account you have. AA recently was taken off the site which makes it to me much less useful now however.

Superfly all domestic airlines including AA. Come and visit www.superfly.com (http://www.superfly.com)

Looking forward to your feedback.

Superfly all domestic airlines including AA. Come and visit www.superfly.com (http://www.superfly.com)

Looking forward to your feedback.

Searching SYD-LAX, what is "Oceanic Airlines"? :confused:

P.S. I see you have a tumblr too :p