Middle East - Getting to Israel - legroom

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Get economy comfort on delta jfk-tlv

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If ur diamond or plat medallion, then its complimentary gold is 50% off silver is 25% off, no status is $120 each way (I think) on a jfk- tlv flight, might be more if u start from somewhere else but I don't know

Try the exit row on CO or LH via FRA

CO (via EWR) cost $139-$149 for "ELR" (extra legroom), such as bulkhead and exit row. The legroom is great, but how much are you willing to spend?

I recently flew EWR-ZRH-TLV, UA connecting to LX. Sat in Economy Plus (E+) on UA, which has about 35 inches, and bulkhead on LX (called and asked for it).

Where on the west coast are you flying from? Any particular airline/alliance you want? How many connections?

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I always fly United, from a small airport connecting through SF or Denver, but I haven't paid their yearly economy plus fine, so have always been told I need to wait till the last day to see if an economy plus is available. I know this is not absolutely true, but that's what they claim.

There is Delta here, but it's never been on my route. Or radar...

An extra 300$ for the roundtrip from NYC is a no-brainer. OTOH, thousands of dollars for business are completely outside my budget.

I don't like bulkhead because I like to have stuff with me. Exits I'm always told you can't reserve. I've asked millions of times...

I'd rather as few connections as possible, but the legroom is really my number one priority.

Well as it is, it looks like you'll have to connect twice as there are no direct flights from either SFO or DEN.

You could try XXX-SFO-ZRH-TLV, and try E+ for the majority of the flight, and only do the shorter stretch (LX ZRH-TLV) in a regular seat. LX is more comfortable in Y than LH.
BA is another possibility via LHR, and sit in WT+, but that's more like a $600 difference.
The issue with DL is that your transcon will not be in EC, as they don't have it yet on domestic flights.

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How do you guarantee an economy plus seat on United? Do you pay their yearly fee?

And is it possible to reserve an exit row?

Maybe they just don't like me...? :(

I could purchase two separate trips - West coast to NYC on UA, then the economy comfort on DL to TLV. I like the sound of those 36 inches!!!

You don't have to pay the yearly fee. If you're not elite on CO or UA, then you can always pay the fee for that flight. You'll probably pay around $100 for SFO-ZRH. Remember that if you fly SFO-JFK on UA, that's a p.s. flight, so it might be a little more expensive, but you will get 34 inches automatically, as all of Y is E+.

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Last time I flew SFO-JFK I think they had just started that program, so thanks for the info. I didn't realise it was the entire flight.

OK, so several options here...I'll have to look into Zurich. It sounds horribly long but I guess it's about the same as NYC-TLV!

I'd fly from Portland or even from Vancouver, BC if there was an easy way, but I think SFO is the best way.

I was even contemplating going the other way around, and I might have, if the nice Asian airlines would take me west all the way...

Many thanks! :)

NP! Lemme know if you have any more questions...the more info you give, the more I can help :)

Regarding p.s. flights, it's all LAX/SFO-JFK flights on UA. Flights are on specially configured 752s featuring F, C, and E+. (Currently,) Only planes in the UA/CO system featuring WiFi (via Gogo). Enhanced service as well.

What about AC via Toronto?

What about AC via Toronto?

Regular Y doesn't have nearly the same legroom as EC on DL. (Or E+ on UA)

What about AC via Toronto?

AC is tight, but their cabin is great!

Try the exit row on CO or LH via FRA

LH :confused: its worse then ElAl! i usually stand up right after the seatbelt sign goes off and only sit back down when it goes back on

also CO planes will be getting E+ to them so for now unless they decide to use what was UA metal stay away from CO, CO does charge more for the bulkhead and exit rows , yes you will get more leg room but you will also be getting a worse seat in and of itself less padding etc

NP! Lemme know if you have any more questions...the more info you give, the more I can help :)

Regarding p.s. flights, it's all LAX/SFO-JFK flights on UA. Flights are on specially configured 752s featuring F, C, and E+. (Currently,) Only planes in the UA/CO system featuring WiFi (via Gogo). Enhanced service as well.

true but the ps flights happen to offer the least amount of room for E+ on a UA flight. I believe its 34" while the 320s,319s 757s would be 36". But 34 is alot better then 31 or 32 on another Carrier. Also w/o status a person will have to pay on the non-ps flighst while on the ps flights thats all there is 34" for everybody

my take if a person doesnt want to up pay anything then take Swiss, its widebodys the whole way. I sat down in a Y seat and with the seat in front of me fully reclined my knees didnt go thru their seat (Im 6'2"). If leaving from the NY area take USAir out of PHL, problem is flying into PHL w/o US status you wont get their seats with the xtra room

If a person is willing to pay more then BA in WT+

with status fly UA to ZRH and catch Swiss into TLV at least until COs planes all get E+ to them. this means flying to EWR or IAD.To EWR it will be CO metal and no E+ yet, so fly UA to IAD . didnt check the timings of the flights to see if it would require an overnight either or both ways @ ZRH or length to the layover

LH :confused: its worse then ElAl! i usually stand up right after the seatbelt sign goes off and only sit back down when it goes back on

Agreed that LH is terrible, though apparently, they will be putting in new Y along with new C (fully lie-flat). Also, 346 is better than the 744

also CO planes will be getting E+ to them so for now unless they decide to use what was UA metal stay away from CO, CO does charge more for the bulkhead and exit rows , yes you will get more leg room but you will also be getting a worse seat in and of itself less padding etc

I disagree that ELR on CO is that much worse. The seat is fine, thought slightly reduced width. Not as bad as the bulkhead I had on LX which was very narrow. Also, 44A/B/K/L on CO are better seats, specifically B/K for legroom. I've never noticed less padding, BTW, in Rows 16 or 32 (on the 772)

true but the ps flights happen to offer the least amount of room for E+ on a UA flight. I believe its 34" while the 320s,319s 757s would be 36". But 34 is alot better then 31 or 32 on another Carrier. Also w/o status a person will have to pay on the non-ps flighst while on the ps flights thats all there is 34" for everybody

Correct. I was simply pointing out. The point is that on p.s. you will have better legroom than on competing flights, as everyone gets 34 inches. (That's all changing anyways as they're overhauling the p.s. fleet, and are adding regular Y, but E+ will remain the larger cabin of the 2. It will increase to 36 inches I believe. The general E+ on UA has been 35 I believe.)

my take if a person doesnt want to up pay anything then take Swiss, its widebodys the whole way. I sat down in a Y seat and with the seat in front of me fully reclined my knees didnt go thru their seat (Im 6'2"). If leaving from the NY area take USAir out of PHL, problem is flying into PHL w/o US status you wont get their seats with the xtra room

If a person is willing to pay more then BA in WT+

with status fly UA to ZRH and catch Swiss into TLV at least until COs planes all get E+ to them. this means flying to EWR or IAD.To EWR it will be CO metal and no E+ yet, so fly UA to IAD . didnt check the timings of the flights to see if it would require an overnight either or both ways @ ZRH or length to the layover

If you're willing to pay, for sure go with WT+. But that's quite expensive compared to Y.

I just flew EWR-ZRH-TLV (UA to LX) and liked it. But I must say that I don't think the regular Y seats on the 343 on LX have such great legroom. It looked pretty tight. I enjoyed E+ on UA, but it wasn't as incredible as people have made it out to be. My knees weren't banging into the seat in front of me, but it was still a lot tighter than an ELR on CO.

Agreed that LH is terrible, though apparently, they will be putting in new Y along with new C (fully lie-flat). Also, 346 is better than the 744



I disagree that ELR on CO is that much worse. The seat is fine, thought slightly reduced width. Not as bad as the bulkhead I had on LX which was very narrow. Also, 44A/B/K/L on CO are better seats, specifically B/K for legroom. I've never noticed less padding, BTW, in Rows 16 or 32 (on the 772)



Correct. I was simply pointing out. The point is that on p.s. you will have better legroom than on competing flights, as everyone gets 34 inches. (That's all changing anyways as they're overhauling the p.s. fleet, and are adding regular Y, but E+ will remain the larger cabin of the 2. It will increase to 36 inches I believe. The general E+ on UA has been 35 I believe.)



If you're willing to pay, for sure go with WT+. But that's quite expensive compared to Y.

I just flew EWR-ZRH-TLV (UA to LX) and liked it. But I must say that I don't think the regular Y seats on the 343 on LX have such great legroom. It looked pretty tight. I enjoyed E+ on UA, but it wasn't as incredible as people have made it out to be. My knees weren't banging into the seat in front of me, but it was still a lot tighter than an ELR on CO.

got to learn how to do that multiple quote thing you did

til then:
1- the LH 346 is just as bad as the 744, the 343 which is supose to be to/from MUC is slightly better but I found many times they send the 346

2- I have found the padding on CO in the Exit and bulkhead to have worse padding as its like you said slightly less width = a different sets of pads, as for 44 they are reg seats and if you should hit Turbulance you will feel it the Worst seating in the back (thusly why I usually try for the seats near the wing less bouncing)

3- as for Swiss I just flew ZRH-JFK and was in C but walked back and sat down in the last row of Y and found it to be alot better then LH and the seat in front of me was reclined the whole way. btw Im 6'2"

as for UA E+ I have it to NRT,SYD,LHR,FRA,FCO,BRU,++ and is way more room then on CO with the exception of COs Exit Row, but with UAs E+ you get the reg width of the seat unlike COs ER, plus many times Ive had a seat or 2 empty next to me so I simply raise the arm rests and have alot more room to play with, that cant be done on CO ER or Bulkhead seats as the arm rests dont move

once CO has E+ on its metal it will change things , till then if Im going in Y I want to be in E+ on UA for as long as I can = flying to ZRH and picking up LX from there.(I know I could fly certain times into ATH and p/u A3 but prefer a widebody to a A320)

got to learn how to do that multiple quote thing you did

For each post you want to quote, click the multi-quote icon (the middle icon). When you're ready to reply, click reply, and all the posts will show up.

1- the LH 346 is just as bad as the 744, the 343 which is supose to be to/from MUC is slightly better but I found many times they send the 346

I guess it's a YMMV situation. I prefer the 346 to the 744. I don't think I've ever flown the 343 on LH.

2- I have found the padding on CO in the Exit and bulkhead to have worse padding as its like you said slightly less width = a different sets of pads, as for 44 they are reg seats and if you should hit Turbulance you will feel it the Worst seating in the back (thusly why I usually try for the seats near the wing less bouncing)

Another YMMV situation. While possible there's indeed less padding, I personally don't find it too noticeable. The decreased width, however, I find much more pronounced in row 32 versus 16. (That might be because I sat in the window seat in 32 and the aisle in 16)

3- as for Swiss I just flew ZRH-JFK and was in C but walked back and sat down in the last row of Y and found it to be alot better then LH and the seat in front of me was reclined the whole way. btw Im 6'2"

And I'm sure no one found that weird at all :D

Forgetting legroom for a moment, I find the Y seats on LX uncomfortable. While the 343 is a step up over the 333, I find them on par with CO 738 seats.

as for UA E+ I have it to NRT,SYD,LHR,FRA,FCO,BRU,++ and is way more room then on CO with the exception of COs Exit Row, but with UAs E+ you get the reg width of the seat unlike COs ER, plus many times Ive had a seat or 2 empty next to me so I simply raise the arm rests and have alot more room to play with, that cant be done on CO ER or Bulkhead seats as the arm rests dont move

Agreed in that respect.

once CO has E+ on its metal it will change things , till then if Im going in Y I want to be in E+ on UA for as long as I can = flying to ZRH and picking up LX from there.(I know I could fly certain times into ATH and p/u A3 but prefer a widebody to a A320)

I can't wait until they have E+ on CO metal. And if I'm connecting in Europe (on *A) I will always prefer to connect to LX. (Though my Feb itin doesn't have LX: TLV-VIE (OS), VIE-MXP (OS), MXP-EWR (CO, but will technically be UA at that point), EWR-PBI-EWR-BOS-EWR (all CO), EWR-BRU (UA), BRU-TLV (SN).

What is 'CO metal'?

What is 'CO metal'?
its not as simple as it was till now and will get even harder to know going forward as its now 1 carrier

but CO metal means you are gonna be flying on a plane that was operated by CO before the merge. eg EWR-TLV is flown on a 777 , UA has 777s also but are F,C,Y while CO was BF,Y so till all of COs 777s are changed to reflect E+ seating in Y theres no way to know if in fact when a person flys that route if they will end up with E+ or in cramped CO Y seat

EWR-ZRH was CO but is now a UA flight using UAs 767s = 3 cabins with E+ in Y, till now IAD-CDG was UA planes now its COs 752s so BF up front but no E+ in Y and a narrow body 752 when UA was using widebodys with E+ in Y till now

so "metal" means a Carriers plane, also 1 meeds to be careful to make sure even thou it may show up as a UA flight # from today onwards it just might be a CO plane if it was previously a CO operated flight. So EWR-TLV may now be say UA 85 but most likely it will still be COs 777 = no E+ yet

to help out if the plane is a A319, or A320 for sure it will have E+ since those are ALL UA metal, as are the 747s, also 763s will be UAs. the 737 series will be COs as will the 753s and 764s (not sure if 762s are only CO or if UA had them as well). the problem will be with the 777 check the seat chart if it shows only n2 cabin them its CO, 3 cabin its UA. as for the 757 CO has some 752s as 2 cabins, and UA ha s2 types the ps which are only used for JFK to LAX & SFO are 3 cabin for now (going to 2 cabins) and Y is all E+ @ 34" and UAs reg 757 is 2 cabin with E+ for some of coach @ 36" . All of UAs planes with E+ also has E- except fo the ps flights mentioned above. E- is 31"

Ah, thanks.

^

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But looking at both United and CO, it seems:

It's impossible to fly to Israel from the west coast unless you fly CO from the East coast to TLV. Even when I looked at flying through EWR (which is not listed as an option from SFO to TLV, unless you add it as another flight).

The good flight to ZRH on UA economy plus might be available, but too early. I didn't see it. I guess I could spend a day in NYC but don't really feel like it.

I'm confused about your statement. You're saying you must fly CO from the East Coast, or you can't fly through EWR?

I just did a search with random dates and found lots of of EWR options, the best ones being SFO-EWR-TLV (there were also lots of options that added an additional leg between SFO and EWR). Then the partner options on LH via FRA and IAD/MUC.

I've never seen LX come up as an option for a revenue booking on CO.com. You can try booking on expedia or orbitz, and specify LX as an airline you want. (You can choose up to 3 airlines, so try doing LX, UA... and see what you come up with.)

All the flights I saw (JFK and EWR) were 'operated by CO'. The CO seat plans look truly awful. Even the 3 something seats with 'extra legroom'. I hate bulkheads.

You're seeing JFK flights operated by CO? They have no operations there, and I believe the only flights UA has there are their p.s. flights to/from SFO and LAX. What flights in specific are you referring to? It would make sense that most of the flights you see out of EWR are operated by CO as that's a major hub for it. The only international flights UA has out of EWR are to/from ZRH and BRU.

So it seems that Delta is the only choice for legroom. It sounds like a sucky airline - never flown it before, but everything I've heard says so.

DL has been going through a major overhaul to improve customer service. Now I haven't flown them recently on this route, but many friends have said it was an enjoyable flight. And Economy Comfort doesn't look too bad

Kinda pissed off at the whole thing - why can't one fly in comfort to Israel? And not in business, no $$$$$$$$$ for that. Why must it be torture? Seriously. :(

With you on this one ;)

Kinda pissed off at the whole thing - why can't one fly in comfort to Israel? And not in business, no $$$$$$$$$ for that. Why must it be torture? Seriously. :(

I flew LY to EWR a few weeks ago on a 777 both ways, sitting in the rows in the back (52 and above). Although Seat Guru had the seats listed as 32" there were may seats that were in actuality 33, 34 and even 35" ( I measured with a tape measure)

The problem is that there is no way of knowing until you are on the plane and if you are lucky enough to have empty seats around you

As the plane had a lot of empty seats in that area, I took the 35" both ways. It was quite comfortable with individual screens with VOD one way and multi channel continuous movies the other.

It could have been worse

You could've been traveling via boat in the 19th century.

Or worse, Y on LH :eek::p

I flew LY to EWR a few weeks ago on a 777 both ways, sitting in the rows in the back (52 and above). Although Seat Guru had the seats listed as 32" there were may seats that were in actuality 33, 34 and even 35" ( I measured with a tape measure)

The problem is that there is no way of knowing until you are on the plane and if you are lucky enough to have empty seats around you

As the plane had a lot of empty seats in that area, I took the 35" both ways. It was quite comfortable with individual screens with VOD one way and multi channel continuous movies the other.

It could have been worse

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I don't know what I was looking at...I was searching through United and CO and Momondo. Now I'm looking at United and all the flights from EWR are CO, and all the same awful 777.

Now I've plugged in JFK-TLV into Momondo, and Im getting Aeroflot, I mean Aeroflot, Transaero Air, which I don't even want to know what it is, Turkish airlines and more...

How do you get this SFO-EWR-Zurich via United plus, then the additional leg via whomever...? I must be brain dead...

well its not you. CO/UA hardly ever will show you anything that isnt CO or UA or LH , and never LX even for a free tkt.

Put in SFO-TLV and all they will offer is a few different ways with the CO nonstop out of EWR, put in EWR-TLV and it will show you connections via MUC or FRA on LH to TLV, besides the non-stops. You'd think they would offer a SFO-FRA-TLV but they dont

you can try it using 'MultiCity' SFO-EWR & EWR-ZRH & ZRH-TLV and see if it spits it up

If you use search engines such as expedia or orbitz, you can find LX options, especially if you specify them!

When searching CO.com or .bomb, all you will find are UA/CO and LH.

(craz, when booking award flights, LX should show up, at least on CO.com.)

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(craz, when booking award flights, LX should show up, at least on CO.com.)

Nope Nada No Way and that includes this afternoon when I was checking for LX NY-TLV for Pesach, I did find what I wanted via ANA but CO.com showed me zippo for LX even thou its avauialble as ANA showed me

I got into the habit of going straight to the source. Will rethink this.

I should change my name to nottasardine... ;)

if you're an Elite with UA or CO Id look into say UA from SFO-FRA or wherever and then to ZRH , the flight to ZRH will be at most an hr and even I can survive LH for that in Y just about

Id much fly UA in E+ SFO-FRA then to EWR and then to Europe

Nope Nada No Way and that includes this afternoon when I was checking for LX NY-TLV for Pesach, I did find what I wanted via ANA but CO.com showed me zippo for LX even thou its avauialble as ANA showed me

If ever you don't find it online, but it exists (such as on the ANA tool,) you can always call in and have them manually input the segment. (But that would only work for award booking.)

If ever you don't find it online, but it exists (such as on the ANA tool,) you can always call in and have them manually input the segment. (But that would only work for award booking.)

Thats what I always did, and I never ever saw LX being offered at least in regards to/from TLV have you?

also it would work if you are purchasing a tkt they can put in what you want and of cause they will charge you a fee for booking via the Rep, dont know if they charge non Elites for doing it for an award tkt

Is it appropriate in this forum to wistfully remember the days when BMI flew its widebody Airbus aircraft with Premium Economy seating of 22"-wide seats with 50"+ of legroom, and about 150% of recline.

Chicago to London. London to Tel Aviv. It was great.

Too bad all good things had to come to an end.

Is it appropriate in this forum to wistfully remember the days when BMI flew its widebody Airbus aircraft with Premium Economy seating of 22"-wide seats with 50"+ of legroom, and about 150% of recline.

Chicago to London. London to Tel Aviv. It was great.

Too bad all good things had to come to an end.

I do remember the 49 inches of legroom. I remember them putting ads all over the papers here as well. All good things come to an end.

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OK, so if I buy the tickets separately: UA SFO-JFK, then Delta JFK-TLV, same return, how much time do I need between flights?
Best place to ask that would be here: JFK Inter-Terminal Connections (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/new-york-city/1218962-jfk-inter-terminal-connections.html). UA is in Terminal 7 and DL is in Terminal 4

Thanks!

OK, so if I buy the tickets separately: UA SFO-JFK, then Delta JFK-TLV, same return, how much time do I need between flights?

this is something Im not fond of, the other day COs 84 EWR-TLV went MX that meant a 6 hr delay = those flying TLV-EWR on the planes turn around would be arriving into EWR after all the days flights onward departed. If that was you youd be SOL on your tkt since it was on a different PNR as the TLV-EWR was on

if you dont mind the gamble leave yourself a good few hrs in between the 2 flights as C&I can be lengthy at times and you have to go thru Security at DL AFAIK.

I know DL arrives early morn into JFK but if their flights are full that day and theres adelay thru C&I or your bag/s dont make it all bets are off. Just in CDG-JFK on AF my bags were tagged Priority and was 1 of the last to come out (A380)

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I don't know what 'went MX' means, but yeah, it's risky. On another thread I got an answer to take 4 hrs between flights.

This all seems so primitive and inconvenient for 2011.

MX = mechanical plane needs to be repaired something is 100%

usually 4 hrs s/b OK especially since you arrive at such an early hr and thusly have all the flights ahead of you. The other week on UA JFK-SFO a few days out All the flights were Oed something that usually isnt the case

IS the UA/DL combo that much cheaper then an all DL? or say UA SFO-FRA,LH FRA-ZRH, & LX ZRH-TLV Im assuming you can get UA in E+ for $0

By getting 2 differnt tkts You decided to make it Inconvient especially when its on 2 different Carriers in 2 different Alliances. If my Honda brakes down no sense in driving it into a Toyota dealer, yet they are both Japanese cars

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Not cheaper at all! more expensive.

If you misconnect, it will be a lot more expensive.

Not cheaper at all! more expensive. The whole pint is the legroom, and making the trip as confortable as possible.

I might be stopping over in NYC on the way back, but in any case SFO-JFK on UA with economy plus and then Delta in a comfort plus seat direct ti TLV only seems the most comfortable (except for the JFK transit issue...which is an issue...)

I hope you realize that the US ps flight is E+ but only 34" and not 36" like on the non ps flights. I havent checked whats the pitch on the DL SFO-JFK flights?

lastly whats the $$ difference between a UA/DL tkt and a SFO-ZRH-TLV tkt on a fare that will earn you 100% of the miles or say a SFO-FRA (UA) FRA-ZRH-TLV

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Delta Economy Comfort:

Eh.

I think I had two extra inches of legroom. I didn't have a way to measure this. The seat map says it's supposed to be 36 inches, I think it was 34.

It was a regular narrow seat, and the legroom was just adequate. When the person in front of me tilted back, it was bearable - not wonderful, not torture.

I thought there was some extra level of service associated with these seats. I thought they come around and offer you beer and wine. There was no service at all, just like the rest of economy. The lacto-ovo-vegetarian meal was inedible, for example a sandwich consisted of bread with a tomato and a pickle. No cheese. Or any other spread. Bread, tomato, pickle. :rolleyes:

In summary, it's a bit of a sorry joke, but since I need the legroom, I'm glad I got it.

Will wait for some other airline to wise up and offer legroom.

As I understand it, alcohol is free in Economy Comfort, but they don't necessarily offer you special beverages.

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