Amtrak Guest Rewards - OT article about border patrol on trains

Article that has some info about border patrol on trains and busses

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/article/20111109/NEWS01/111109004/Updated-Border-Patrol-responds-report-critical-tactics?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|Home

Obviously 2700+ arrests imply reasoning for targeting those services....like a good nun says, "wherever there is sin, that is where I must go...." or somethign to that effect.

Obviously 2700+ arrests imply reasoning for targeting those services....like a good nun says, "wherever there is sin, that is where I must go...." or somethign to that effect.And do we know how many of those 2,700 cases are actually taken to a trial, or result in a conviction?

Because we know it could never be the case that it's just bunch of agents running around, making sure they arrest 2-3 people a day to justify their jobs.

And do we know how many of those 2,700 cases are actually taken to a trial, or result in a conviction?

Because we know it could never be the case that it's just bunch of agents running around, making sure they arrest 2-3 people a day to justify their jobs.

Fair enough.....no I don't know the convicition rate. But assuming a rediculously conservative 10% conviction rate, that's still a pretty good reason to target non-ID'd travel. Admittedly, I don't take Amtrak very often, but not once have I ever been asked for ID to board, and haven't seen any kind of security. Seems to me that's a hole in the system. Don't get me wrong, I am against big brother watching every move, but in this case, bus and train travel are a security risk. I have to train my conductors and engineers to look for IED's on freight cars, by law....meanwhile, anyone and everyone can carry large bags aboard a train filled with passengers, with no questions asked. Doesn't make sense.

Fair enough.....no I don't know the convicition rate. But assuming a rediculously conservative 10% conviction rate, that's still a pretty good reason to target non-ID'd travel. Admittedly, I don't take Amtrak very often, but not once have I ever been asked for ID to board, and haven't seen any kind of security. Seems to me that's a hole in the system. Don't get me wrong, I am against big brother watching every move, but in this case, bus and train travel are a security risk. I have to train my conductors and engineers to look for IED's on freight cars, by law....meanwhile, anyone and everyone can carry large bags aboard a train filled with passengers, with no questions asked. Doesn't make sense.

That's not a ridiculously conservative conviction rate -- that's a conviction rate for government-employed libertines.

How many of the c 2-3 people arrested daily during these checks by DHS-BP/CBP/ICE personnel on such trains/buses are arrested and prosecuted by a US Attorney's Office, convicted and sentenced to a lock-up facility for more than 90 days for anything that has to do with conduct on the buses/trains on which they were arrested? You'd be lucky if you get a fraction of 10% for that. And how many IEDs found on those trains by them? Are those IEDs so special on trains that they couldn't do more damage elsewhere on the ground at a fixed sight? I doubt it.

If 90% of arrested people not being convicted is fine by you, is it also ok if 90% of non-speeding drivers on your drives get pulled over while at it? Do you realize that there are far more IED attacks coming from cars than from trains or buses? Let's harass drivers instead? ;)

Apologists for government fishing expeditions and power grabs of their favorite flavor can always try to find their excuses to justify whatever flavor of action they fancy. But they remain excuses, excuses that are expensive ones which come with tapping out the US Treasury again and again and again.

I have been questioned by the TSA on the LSL and I believe it to be one of the reasons for the tardiness of the train. Staying in the station an extra 20-30 minutes for these inquisitions.

Also I have been questioned while driving in my car near the Canadian border. I do not mind that so much but the fact is as the Homeland Security people question you they are looking for any thing in your car that the police (who if not with them are nearby) can arrest you for such as Indian Cigarettes etc. I do not condone the use of drugs or cigarettes but I despise the false pretenses knowingly used by police and homeland security for illegal search and seizure.

I did not give up any of my rights for the war on terror they have been stolen from me.

The good news is that this article, and another from the New York Times earlier this week -
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/09/nyregion/border-patrol-searches-faulted-in-new-report.html?scp=2&sq=border+patrol&st=nyt

corroborate what I heard last month which is that the border patrol is now no longer regularly sweeping trains/buses. It seems that they will only be searching them if they have specific intel about a particular day.

Now I can't find the article, but it was from the associated press and it basically said that some border patrol agents are bored and sitting in their cars all day with nothing to do since they have been ordered by the Obama administration to cease their random sweeps of buses/trains.

Ok, you got it figured out. Carry on.

I have mixed feelings about this. Seems plain to me the borders of the USA are totally out of control. The country is full of people present illegally. There is even a political movement that tries to sell the notion that this is acceptable. We certainly want due process to be preserved inviolate. But due process is being exploited in many ways to evade law enforcement. I want the world to respect our laws governing entrance and visits to the country. I want the Bill of Rights to be sacrosanct. And in recent times, there is a severe conflict between the two. At this point, I'm not willing to say the government should just throw up their hands and give the field to all the people who want to ignore our laws. It is a worldwide problem. People are entering the EU from all sorts of different directions, and they are struggling to maintain control. Rightwing parties are surging due to popular annoyance with the swiss cheese character of national borders. Those who don't want governments filled with extremists have to take the issue seriously, not take a onesided perspective. Governments can always do their job better, but not doing their job is not an option.

I do not mind the questioning so much as I do the illegal searches for stuff that should be none of homeland security or TSA business.The fact that these agents use their power to interview us without recourse in an attempt to find illegal drugs, cigarettes, money and some agencies notably TSA were encouraging these action from their agents. I find intolerable. More than once I have been asked how much cash I am carrying as I wear a money belt at times. This is none of their business on a domestic flight but they are trying to help enforce currency laws. These efforts should not overlap.
You want to enforce border laws fine but just enforce that law; do not look for stuff that isn't involved in enforcing that law. The state police just cannot stop you and search your car for drugs etc. without reasonable cause but border patrol under the guise of searching for illegals and terrorists can and does do that. Then they tell the state police thereby making an illegal search legal.
The Patriot act is a catchall for illegal searches to be legal

I do not mind them protecting or borders and stopping terrorists but the ancillary illegal activities must stop.

END OF RANT

Admittedly, I don't take Amtrak very often, but not once have I ever been asked for ID to board, and haven't seen any kind of security. Seems to me that's a hole in the system. Don't get me wrong, I am against big brother watching every move, but in this case, bus and train travel are a security risk. I have to train my conductors and engineers to look for IED's on freight cars, by law....meanwhile, anyone and everyone can carry large bags aboard a train filled with passengers, with no questions asked. Doesn't make sense.

Anyone can walk into the restaurant where you're dining with an IED in his bag. Anyone sitting next to you in the movie theater could have a bomb in his bag. The driver in the car next to you could have a bomb in his trunk. The guy walking behind you might have a knife in his bag and be about to mug you.

Seems like some pretty big security risks, right? If you're willing to assume the risk in so many other arenas of daily life, then why are bus and train travel any different?

It's this same attitude that is leading to the TSA's encroachment beyond airports and onto mass transit and trains and buses.

I may be assuming too much, but I really don't at this time think terrorism is a big risk on trains. However, infiltration from every border is something that goes on daily. I don't know why we even have a border patrol if they aren't busy making sure that people enter the USA legally. Drugs and that other stuff? I agree we have law enforcement specifically for that. I don't think these agencies should be stretching beyond their charter, and the reason I think that is, frankly, I don't see them fulfilling their core purpose well enough. I hate to see someone trying to do someone else's job at the same time he is failing HIS job.