Russia - Russian Visa for ex(?) Russian Citizen

So here's my ridiculously complicated story.

I'm a 23-year-old kid living in America who left Russia in January 1992 right after the collapse of communism. I traveled back to Russia once before to visit family. My father made the travel arrangements, so I don't know what he did.

As far as I know, getting a Russian visa is difficult enough already, but it's even more difficult for former Russian citizens. Or Russian citizens who never renounced their citizenship but have foreign citizenship now and permanently live in the West.

I want to visit my grandparents sometime soon, as they are rather elderly. However, to get a Russian visa, the agency asks me for a "certificate of renunciation" or whatever. I was 4 years old when I left....I don't have such a thing. Neither do my parents, since they didn't formally renunciate.

I can probably get a Russian passport, however, I do not want this to get me involved with the Russian Army. Military service of any sort is best avoided for me.

My question is: is there an agency that specializes in Russia visas for people born in Russia that want to avoid gettin a Russian passport for a while (avoid harassment and questions for Army service, even though I've only lived in the Russian Federation for 3 weeks).

If anyone has any advice, it would be GREATLY appreciated. And if you need clarification, feel free to ask. Thank you!

You'll need to renounce your Russian citizenship. I am not sure what the procedure is. If i had to guess, this would require a trip to the nearest consulate, my guess Houston.

Best to think about this, if i were you. Generally once you give it up, you'll never get it back. Russia is country that is changing rapidly, you may want to live there down the road at some point, in the future. Or work there.

Говорите / читать русские?

I have a friend your age with the same problem. he got a Russian passport and has not had problems with military service.

I am not sure where you got this information about Russian military service. I don't think anybody would come to summon you for it in the US.

Get Russian passport, as it will only make your life easier if you are ever planning to travel to Russia.

U.S. Citizens Also Holding Russian Passports: If you are a dual U.S./Russian national, you are expected to enter and depart both Russia and the United States carrying the passport of that country. If you are a Russian citizen carrying a Russian passport, you should confirm that your Russian passport is valid beyond your planned departure; you will not be permitted to depart Russia with an expired Russian passport, and obtaining one in Russia, as a non-resident, is extremely difficult.

Russian external (international) passports extended by Russian consulates or embassies overseas are not considered valid for departure from Russia no matter how long the extension. Bearers of such passports must apply for a new passport in Russia. Males of conscript age (18 - 27 years old) who are deemed to be Russian citizens may experience problems if they have not satisfied their military service requirement.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1006.html#entry_requirements

Information on how to give up your citizenship is here:

http://www.russianembassy.org/Embassy_rus/Consulate/vyhod_iz_grazhdanstva.html

Only in Russian, sorry!

Personally, I would not try to return to Russia being of military age without renouncing your citizenship. Maybe others haven't had problems, but do you want to risk spending the time in the army to see if you're not going to have problems too?

Unless the regulations changed recently, you're totally safe from the draft if you're not resident here. Which you obviously aren't. Russian citizens who are not residents of Russia (i.e. are not registered as having a permanent address in the country, the famous propiska) are not subject to the military service.

You should check with the consulate but my educated guess is, as far as they're concerned, you're still a Russian citizen but resident in the US. Which means you should be able to get a Russian passport of the kind we use to travel internationally but not the other one, the one which serves as the primary ID inside the country. The only downside of your not having a propiska is you technically have to register with the police should you want to spend more than 90 days in any single Russian city. Oh, and should you want to vote, you should do it where you're resident, i.e. at your consulate in the US (Houston?).

I know all of this because a couple friends of mine used this to dodge the draft back in the 90's, officially renouncing their residency here, with their domestic IDs and propiskas and pretending to move abroad where their fathers were posted at consulates or some such.

As I said, check if the regulations changed but I very much doubt this. Drafting overseas Russians would be unenforceable and the general trend so far has been to relax the draft for everyone, not the other way round. Oh, and to physically draft a Russian citizen they need to take away his domestic ID which you, as a non-resident, can not have in the first place.

Hope it helps

The kid left Russian Federation in January of 1992 which means that he did not live in Russia as of February 1992. I do not know how he left Russia and whether he was de-registered before leaving - it makes a big difference. If I were him, I would apply for a citizenship verification. It takes time, but then he would get a definite answer from the embassy. I am a bit surprised they want to see the certificate of renunciation because it is not their usual practice.

If you apply with US passport for Russian visa how can Russian consulate even know about your fmr russian ties?

If you apply with US passport for Russian visa how can Russian consulate even know about your fmr russian ties?

They aren't stupid. Place of birth on your US passport is a dead giveaway.

They aren't stupid. Place of birth on your US passport is a dead giveaway.

You also have to put POB on the visa application and answer a question if you've ever held USSR/Russian citizenship.

They aren't stupid. Place of birth on your US passport is a dead giveaway.

Good point - i forgot about that one...:D

I would get citizenship verification then - this is very confusing as only those who were USSR citizens in feb 1992 automatically received russian citizenship. Even if OP left the country prior to that he may still qualify, since being in USSR/Russia in feb 1992 is not a requirement as long as there was local registration "propiska".

Well, my friend, I think you face an uphill battle if you try to play by the rules.

Generally, a) to have a valid Russian passport good for travel (e.g. renewal), you need to have an unxpired Russian external passsport. If it is expired, you are out of luck. b) you can't get a Russian passport and prove that you are a Russian citizen, if you don't have a USSR passport as a "conversion case" from a USSR citizen to Russian Citizen that people quoted above. c) you don't have a USSR passport as you were only 4 years old. Your info (picture, data particulars) were probably inserted into your parents passport at the time they left the country.

I think you will be in the world of hurt trying to get that Russian passport. I think at best you'll have to somehow try to get a proof of Russian citizenship (I don't think Russian birth certificate is sufficient in this process) and then pay mucho dinero to get a "Permission to Return". That Permission only lets you get into Russia where you'll have to sort this out to get a real passport. (Can't leave the country with it and can't leave on your US passport because you didn't enter under a visa). Logically, you then would go to the location where you and your parents used to live prior to leaving - good luck with that.

A co-worker of mine faces somewhat similar situation. So, to avoid the hassle, she gets Russian visas with her US passport through some travel agency connected to NYC Consulate. I can get a name and PM it to you. Expensive and legally shady, but it works for her.

Let us know what Houston Consulate advises you to do.

I know a person who was in somewhat similar situation, he paid about $400 for an agency that took care of all requests/forms/etc and restored his passport (he never had one before, but technically russian citizen).
You can do it for free, and probably in same time (took about 5 months), but probably more effort required.

Just get the passport and dont worry about anything.
It saved me a cool $150 when traveling to Argentina - free for Ru, visa fee for US :-)
there are other places too.

PS when i said free - you still have to pay consulate, you just wont have to pay extra

Well, my friend, I think you face an uphill battle if you try to play by the rules.
Not so much of a battle. When one applies for a citizenship verification, after 3 months one usually gets an answer. It is a quite clear and discrete - "yes" or "no". If the person is found to be the citizen, then he/she will get the passport. If not, then they will issue a Russian visa. Usually they don't keep applicants in a limbo.

Although it has been a month and a half since the question came up, I want to add some points here. Your issues are not particularly complicated but because of the timing there is room for a great deal of misinterpretation.

Our travel company works with many people who are former Soviet citizens, and in general have no problem getting a visa for them provided that they have the proper documentation (about 2-3 years ago the requirements changed). In short, for FORMER Soviet citizens they need a canceled Soviet passport containing their exit visa ("visa to Israel") OR a certificate of naturalization from the US (even though the official requirement is for both documents). This is generally considered to be evidence of giving up Soviet citizenship for purposes of granting a Russian visa. This is from the Consulate of the Russian Federation in New York's website:

Applicants who used to be citizens of the USSR or of the Russian Federation and then emigrated from the USSR or from Russia must submit one of the documents which confirms that they are no longer citizens of the Russian Federation (so called "Visa to Israel" or stamp in their passport saying that they left for "permanent residence abroad" before the 6th of February, 1992 or official document certifying that their Russian citizenship was renounced), otherwise the applications will not be accepted.
A naturalization certificate is to be submitted also.

You seem to be confused as to whether or not you are a Russian citizen (and left during probably the most confusing month in all of Russian/Soviet history). You do need to clarify that point, although I can guess that your paperwork (or that of your parents, since you probably traveled on your parents' passport) at least SHOULD have been properly stamped. I would NEVER advise someone to rely on others' experience with regards to being subject to military conscription; it might not be enforceable overseas, but it certainly is when you are on Russian territory. Remember, if you are a Russian citizen you are subject to Russian laws without the protection of your American citizenship (whether you entered on a US or a Russian passport).

I would strongly advise that, should you consider in the slightest that you are a Russian citizen, you consult an attorney who has experience in cross-border issues (more on the Russian side). Such a consultation shouldn't take long and it will provide a road map in what you need to do. Once that is done you can decide if you want to renounce your Russian citizenship (and if it is necessary). Our visa people can review the paperwork but may turn it back should there be ambiguity or the need for further research.

Also it is not too difficult to re-establish Russian citizenship-many of my colleagues have done that.

Remember, if you are a Russian citizen you are subject to Russian laws without the protection of your American citizenship (whether you entered on a US or a Russian passport).


1. If you are a Russian citizen you MUST enter\leave Russia on a Russian passport. For third countries there's an option to choose.

2. Yes, there is no protection if you are a Russian citizen. But what is this protection? Interpreter from the consulate?
If you brake the law, noone from the embassy can help you unless you are so valuable for the US government that you could be exchanged for Ms Chapman and Co

2. Yes, there is no protection if you are a Russian citizen. But what is this protection? Interpreter for the consulate?
If you brake the law, noone from the embassy can help you unless you are so valuable for the US government that you could be exchanged for Ms Chapman and Co

I disagree. Recently I thanked one senior State Department official for her assistance when a friend (now deceased) was detained because of a technical violation of law in Asia. The assistance is almost always very quiet so as to not embarrass the host country's government. Without getting into details I know many, many US citizens who have been helped by the local embassy when they have run afoul of the local laws (mostly related to due process), but also with medical issues and when they are victims of crime or terrorism. ^

Well, Asia is a different thing and in Asia US governmnt support will be kept. It will not work only in Russia.
Do you have any examples in Russia - embassy influenced somehow that withiut them the situation would have been much worse

Well, Asia is a different thing and in Asia US governmnt support will be kept. It will not work only in Russia.
Do you have any examples in Russia - embassy influenced somehow that withiut them the situation would have been much worse

Many, and I wouldn't discuss on a public forum for reasons which I wrote (and client confidentiality). Sorry to be coy, but there is a reason that quiet diplomacy works (and there is one incident that is current with a life at stake).

YMMV.

Happy New Year, everyone! And thank you for the posts, MaecDavidMiller. Much appreciated.

Now, I KNOW without a shadow of a doubt that I still have Russian citizenship. It is complicated, however. We left January 17, 1992 & entered the United States on 3-month tourist visas. Don't ask how we got 'em, we did & we simply never went back. The RF, however, obviously thought that we did, since they called my old apartment when I became of conscription age. My mom was in St. Petersburg showing off my new-born baby sister. Man, do I wish I were born a woman all of a sudden. Bleh.

Anyways, in the eyes of Russia, I am still a citizen, albeit one who hasn't lived there in 2 decades. [redacted]


For me, the goal is to get a Russian passport. IF I can do it in America via the Russian Embassy, Consulates or organizations (private visa and passport companies) working with the Russian Embassy or Consulates, that would be the most ideal situation. If all hope is lost & I cannot do it in America, then I shall have to go the route of citizenship renunciation. It'll break my heart, but what can I do? Gotta do what I gotta do.

My main concern is to have all the necessary paperwork. It's somewhere in the house, I know. (birth certificate, old Soviet passport with me listed as "child") Actually, I think it's in the plastic box directly behind me on the floor, but I'm not about to go rooting through it & mess up my mom's "organization". (I use that term very loosely) The second concern is that they will actually accept my paperwork & due diligence in taking the time to work on it "their way" and that they will give me what I want. What are the chances of that happening? If they are higher than they are lower, then there's no reason not to do it.

I just called my Grandmother in St. Petersburg to wish her a Happy New Year & have a conversation. (Yes, I know I'm more than a week late, don't ask) She asked me if/when I could come & I could really tell that my Grandparents want to see me. And I want to see them.

Emotional heartstring tugging aside, this is something very important to me & I want to do it successfully the first time around. I think the benefits here more than outweigh the risks.

Happy New Year, everyone! And thank you for the posts, MaecDavidMiller. Much appreciated.

Now, I KNOW without a shadow of a doubt that I still have Russian citizenship. It is complicated, however. We left January 17, 1992 & entered the United States on 3-month tourist visas. Don't ask how we got 'em, we did & we simply never went back. The RF, however, obviously thought that we did, since they called my old apartment when I became of conscription age. My mom was in St. Petersburg showing off my new-born baby sister. Man, do I wish I were born a woman all of a sudden. Bleh.

Anyways, in the eyes of Russia, I am still a citizen, albeit one who hasn't lived there in 2 decades. I went back in 2008, my father managed to obtain a visa for me, no doubt with a bribe or some really, really smooth words. He's a smooth talker & I know it: he managed to get a Russian passport in Russia when they didn't let him leave on his American passport last year. I think that the bureaucratic headache shaved a month or two off his life, :( but he made it.

For me, the goal is to get a Russian passport. IF I can do it in America via the Russian Embassy, Consulates or organizations (private visa and passport companies) working with the Russian Embassy or Consulates, that would be the most ideal situation. If all hope is lost & I cannot do it in America, then I shall have to go the route of citizenship renunciation. It'll break my heart, but what can I do? Gotta do what I gotta do.

My main concern is to have all the necessary paperwork. It's somewhere in the house, I know. (birth certificate, old Soviet passport with me listed as "child") Actually, I think it's in the plastic box directly behind me on the floor, but I'm not about to go rooting through it & mess up my mom's "organization". (I use that term very loosely) The second concern is that they will actually accept my paperwork & due diligence in taking the time to work on it "their way" and that they will give me what I want. What are the chances of that happening? If they are higher than they are lower, then there's no reason not to do it.

I just called my Grandmother in St. Petersburg to wish her a Happy New Year & have a conversation. (Yes, I know I'm more than a week late, don't ask) She asked me if/when I could come & I could really tell that my Grandparents want to see me. And I want to see them.

Emotional heartstring tugging aside, this is something very important to me & I want to do it successfully the first time around. I think the benefits here more than outweigh the risks.

Since 2008 the regulations (and enforcement) have tightened up considerably. You really do need to speak with a lawyer who specializes in such issues (I would not rely on advice from a visa agency for this). You also technically violated Russian law when entering on a US passport. You also may want to consider privacy issues when posting on a public forum.

Since 2008 the regulations (and enforcement) have tightened up considerably. You really do need to speak with a lawyer who specializes in such issues (I would not rely on advice from a visa agency for this). You also technically violated Russian law when entering on a US passport. You also may want to consider privacy issues when posting on a public forum.

You really imagine that "they" are hunting this forum for information? What are they gonna do? It's immigration's fault for letting me in, then, isn't it? I was a minor, anyways....not "responsible for my actions".

Anyways, is it possible for someone to point me in the right direction regarding a lawyer who specializes in such issues? Possibly? Like I said, this is something that's important to me. Thanks in advance! ^

See, what really gets me is if they don't want me entering my birthplace on an American passport, why don't they just give me a Russian passport easily so I can visit? Hahahaha. Boils my blood here, you know? Bleh.

If all hope is lost & I cannot do it in America, then I shall have to go the route of citizenship renunciation.
RussianTexan, it seems that you still have a misunderstanding of how things work with respect to Russian citizenship. In order to renounce your Russian citizenship, you will have to confirm it first - and this is exactly what you are having problems with. If you are able to confirm your citizenship, then there will be no need for renunciation because it will be easier to get a passport. Do you see the paradox? This first step is required for any further action, and this is exactly where you are stuck.

Hey, RussianTexan, I am in the same exact boat as you are...

I left Russia in the Summer of 1999, and I have dual citizenship. My wife really would like to visit Russia, but I am afraid that if I go back, and use my Russian passport, they will throw me in jail, and then send me off to the Army.

It really pisses me off on how stoooopid some of these laws are... Perhaps I will just have to renounce my citizenship after all if I ever want to go back before I'm 28.

<redacted>

indeed... in general to be drafted you have to receive a draft letter, to receive draft letter you have to have a local address and be account for by military draft commission. If you received the letter and dodged the draft, after many formalities an order can be signed filing criminal charges.

Nothing is going to happen during your one week stay, unless you spit in cops face - then you will need new kidneys and teeth. All a bargain further east in Russia you go.

See, what really gets me is if they don't want me entering my birthplace on an American passport, why don't they just give me a Russian passport easily so I can visit? Hahahaha. Boils my blood here, you know? Bleh.

My situation was not as messy as yours but some details might help. Even before I turned 28 I was able to renew my passport (the foreign one) at a consulate in the U.S. I did have to show them my expired “internal” passport. The consulate did not seem to care about the military service issue at all. The only thing they care about is whether they can verify your identity based on what they have in their databases.

Based on what I understand, you are a Russian citizen and the Russian government still counts you as one. In their view, you still officially live wherever you were registered (propisan) before you left the country. You can travel to Russia two ways:

1) GET A RETURN DOCUMENT, which allows you to travel to Russia. The consulate will probably insist on this option, but I would not recommend this at all. See what “fungirl” above says. You should only choose this option if you are ready to spend months in Russia.

or

2) GET A RUSSIAN PASSPORT IN THE US. This requires you to contact the consulate… but I would do it through a lawyer, unless you have tons of patience.

Good luck. The Russian bureaucracy can be bad but it is not worse than what I encountered in the U.S.

Well, just wanted to say, today's the day! Or technically, tomorrow's the day, since that's when I shall arrive in my homeland. Funnily enough, it's the 1-year anniversary of the last post on this thread.

I just wanted to once again thank everyone who helped for their aid. It was really amazing.

And for anyone thinking of going this route, I recommend going to the Consulate and dealing with them. They may take a seemingly extraordinary length of time (8 months in my case) but they are professional and very helpful.

Thank you, thank you, thank you! Next step: making it through passport control.....TWICE!