New York City - For those of you who hate the pokey Q33

There was a notice posted on a Q33 bus today that said the MTA is conducting an analysis study of improving the bus service from major subway connections to LGA. So for those of you who hate the pokey Q33 there may be help on the way!

Interesting. Is there a survey riders can complete?

Interesting. Is there a survey riders can complete?I think you need to go to a public meeting, or send them an email.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/brt/html/other/laguardia.shtml#outreach

See:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/brt/html/other/laguardia.shtml

There was an open house about the project last week:
http://www.mta.info/mta/news/releases/?en=111027-NYCT130

What's so bad about Q33? The Q72 is my preferred bus, but Q33 is still better than the sardine can M60 bus.

I took the Q33 exactly once. I felt like it stopped every block.

The "solution" seems simple -- have a Q33 Limited bus (in addition to the local) that only makes a few stops between Jackson Heights and LGA.

What's so bad about Q33? The Q72 is my preferred bus, but Q33 is still better than the sardine can M60 bus.
The M60 and Q33 both can be improved, but as a regular rider of both, I can attest that both do a decent job of providing reliable public transportation to and from LGA.

I took the Q33 exactly once. I felt like it stopped every block.

The "solution" seems simple -- have a Q33 Limited bus (in addition to the local) that only makes a few stops between Jackson Heights and LGA.

^^

I took the Q33 exactly once. I felt like it stopped every block.

The "solution" seems simple -- have a Q33 Limited bus (in addition to the local) that only makes a few stops between Jackson Heights and LGA.
Don't get me wrong; I would love express service to LGA. But I find that the Q33, even with all its stops -- and it does stop a lot -- gets you to LGA in a reasonable amount of time. The typical trip from Chelsea to LGA via the F train and the Q33 is about an hour. That's not so bad, particularly for the $2.25 fare! And an express bus from Jackson Heights could shave MAYBE 10 minutes or so off of that.

Fair point. The bus is scheduled for 25-30 minutes from the Jackson Heights subway to Central terminal. I'm pretty sure I've done that trip by gypsy cab in about 10 minutes (on the BQE to GCP) so maybe they could get an express bus down to 15-20, which would save 10-15 minutes. Doesn't really seem like a lot, but even 10 minutes off a 40-50 minute trip (from midtown on E/F train) is a good % savings.

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8530/5.0.0.601 Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/417)

FWIW, the Q10 from Kew Gardens to JFK Terminal 4 has a scheduled run time of 38 minutes; the Q10 Limited makes the same run in 33 minutes. I would be surprised if the MTA could devise a Q33 Limited route that shaved more than five minutes off the run time to LGA.

And unless the MTA plans to commit more buses (and more drivers) to the route, adding a Q33 Limited would result in increased waiting time for those not going to LGA, or for those going to LGA from a stop not served by Limited buses. Hardly seems worth it.

My experience on the Q33 shows half the time lost to/from Roosevelt Ave area including double park cars, and lights. About 2 blocks away it is smooth sailing.

However, as other indicated if you allocate enough time the $2.25 can't be beaten for 24/7 service

For about the last 2 months I've flown in and out of LGA about 5 roundtrips and always take the Q33. Luckily I usually catch it in both directions at non rush hour times so its not crazy busy. But its such an interesting ride to see all the houses/business/people along the route.

I think last year I tried the M60 a few times but mostly just keep to the Q33.

Fortunately I only travel with a backpack and a small gym type bag (versus a larger roller bag).

I'm assuming that maybe the MTA is looking at an express bus line from Jackson Heights to LGA that would use some better routing than that narrow one way street. However, given the MTA's budget woes I can't see an extra line being added, particularly on any regular frequency.

Still, at least the MTA is looking at the situation. In the middle of the day it seems to be hit or miss from anywhere of 20 minutes to nearly 40 minutes.

I've taken the Q33 and Q47 pretty often. The delays that I've experienced (as has been said already) seem to be near the 74th subway where we board the bus. Double parked cars, traffic, trucks making deliveries...that takes time. Once you're away from that, true the bus stops often but the stops are quick. Usually 1-2 get on, 1-2 get off. Then the bus pulls away. That part moves pretty well.

Possibly an express bus from somewhere like Times Square where all major subway lines go, assuming that studies show most flyers are coming from Manhattan (albeit most of the workers seem to be from Queens).

Possibly an express bus from somewhere like Times Square where all major subway lines go, assuming that studies show most flyers are coming from Manhattan (albeit most of the workers seem to be from Queens).I don't know if I would want to sit on a bus from Times Square. What if the 59th Street bridge is backed up? What if the Triboro or the Midtown Tunnel were backed up? What if just heading crosstown is bumper-to-bumper? These are all plausible.

If people want to be a on bus, there's always the bus from the Port Authority, Bryant Park, Penn Station and GCT. http://www.nyairportservice.com/

Possibly an express bus from somewhere like Times Square where all major subway lines go, assuming that studies show most flyers are coming from Manhattan (albeit most of the workers seem to be from Queens).

I don't know if I would want to sit on a bus from Times Square. What if the 59th Street bridge is backed up? What if the Triboro or the Midtown Tunnel were backed up? What if just heading crosstown is bumper-to-bumper? These are all plausible.

If people want to be a on bus, there's always the bus from the Port Authority, Bryant Park, Penn Station and GCT. http://www.nyairportservice.com/Analise has it right. There's already plenty of bus service. The issue, assuming we're not going to get rail service to LGA, is getting reliable and fast bus service that connects from the subway. I think we have the reliable part down pretty good. So the question is whether it reasonably can be made faster than it already is.

And unless the MTA plans to commit more buses (and more drivers) to the route, adding a Q33 Limited would result in increased waiting time for those not going to LGA, or for those going to LGA from a stop not served by Limited buses. Hardly seems worth it.
Well this is what the studies would be for. Determining where the most people going to/from LGA are getting on/off, figuring out how to minimize travel time while maximizing the number of passengers that can use the LTD service and assessing the impact on those who can only take the local. You're right that it's probably a stretch to effectively accomplish this with no increase in buses or drivers.

Call me crazy but I like the Q33. It always feels like a homecoming for me, an ex-pat New Yorker. Sure, it stops everywhere, but the driver always honks obsessively, you get to see how diverse Queens is and it's a nice way to transition from my more relaxed, Southern mindset, back to my New York perspective.

Plus, once i learned you can hop out at 82nd and switch to the 7 there, it's sped things up.

Why Q33 and not Q72? I prefer the Q72 since it goes to Junction Blvd where I take the express <7> subway. Seems also Junction Blvd on Q72 is closer/faster than the Q33 ride to Jackson Heights.

Why Q33 and not Q72? I prefer the Q72 since it goes to Junction Blvd where I take the express <7> subway. Seems also Junction Blvd on Q72 is closer/faster than the Q33 ride to Jackson Heights.

I take the Q33 because it takes me to the F, which I can take to my destination. OTOH the Q33 is often painfully slow, e.g. it budgets an optimistic 8 minutes to travel 8 blocks on Roosevelt Ave. Maybe next time I'll try the Q72 (if it shows up before the Q33).

During rush hour half of the Q33s that leave 74th St./Roosevelt Ave. do not go to LGA, but stop within sight of the terminals. What's up with that? I might try to take one of those to 94th St/23rd Ave. and then catch the next bus to LGA (Q33, M60, or Q72). As I see it, the worst case scenario would be catching the next Q33.

The Q48 might make a good alternative to the Q72, but only if you just miss a Q72 (as in see it leave). The Q48 gets to a less desirable 7 stop, but might save a few minutes in this case. However, the Q48 "terminal" is the Marine Air Terminal, so you might end up sitting there for 10+ minutes. This may be worth trying for fun/variety.

Why Q33 and not Q72? I prefer the Q72 since it goes to Junction Blvd where I take the express <7> subway. Seems also Junction Blvd on Q72 is closer/faster than the Q33 ride to Jackson Heights.
I always take whichever comes first, the Q33, the Q72, or the M60. You just can't predict when the next bus will come and what the traffic along its route will be. Yes the Q33 bogs down at times, but I think the extent to which that happens is exaggerated in this thread. I've taken it dozens and dozens of times, and never have experienced more than a 10- to 15-minute delay. And even that is unusual; even when it bogs down, they typical delay is 5 to 10 minutes at most.

I always take whichever comes first, the Q33, the Q72, or the M60. You just can't predict when the next bus will come...
You're right. I do the same. My preferred order is Q72, Q33 and M60.

I used to take the cab, but later realized that the time I spent waiting in line was about the same time it took for the bus to arrive to the subway.

Well this is what the studies would be for. Determining where the most people going to/from LGA are getting on/off, figuring out how to minimize travel time while maximizing the number of passengers that can use the LTD service and assessing the impact on those who can only take the local. You're right that it's probably a stretch to effectively accomplish this with no increase in buses or drivers.

Anybody remember the Newark Airlink bus? Before the EWR rail station was built, the best connection from the train was to go to Newark Penn where you could get the Airlink express bus to the airport. I think it was $4 or $5 as opposed to the local #62 bus that only cost $1 or so. The Airlink cut about 15 minutes off the route and had luggage racks. But it ran very infrequently and wasn't really timed to meet the trains, so the #62 often ended up being the better option if you knew about it.

I used to take the cab, but later realized that the time I spent waiting in line was about the same time it took for the bus to arrive to the subway.This is not consistent with my experience. I find that a taxi routinely takes 30-40 minutes (20 minutes in the case of those 5am taxis to catch a 6am flight) to my midtown office or my Chelsea apartment, whereas public transportation (bus to subway) routinely takes an hour. Nine times out of ten (if not more), a taxi will be faster. That said, the taxi costs me $33-$35 with toll and tip, whereas public transportation costs me $2.25. Even when I could charge my office or a client, I opt for public transportation; I find it more relaxing. That's just me; ymmv.

The biggest problem with the Q33 seems to be in the early morning when its crowded with airport and airline workers added into people bringing enough luggage onboard to spend a year in the Artic. Even worse when its a bus with no luggage rack but even the luggage racks can get filled quickly.

The middle of the day seems to be hit or miss depending upon local use and again the number of people that need to take streamtrunks to see Mickey for three days. Usually after 9PM its a breeze with little local passengers; I've made it from LGA to Jackson Heights within 15-20 minutes. Same with the
M60, after 9PM there are few local passengers and the bus usually sails to the Q/N subway stop. However, the M60 tends to be more crowded with flyers. Often I see the M60 is overflowing with passengers, I wait for the Q33 to arrive but a minute later another M60 bus pulls up with maybe two people on it.

I've taken the Q33 and Q47 pretty often. The delays that I've experienced (as has been said already) seem to be near the 74th subway where we board the bus. Double parked cars, traffic, trucks making deliveries...that takes time. Once you're away from that, true the bus stops often but the stops are quick. Usually 1-2 get on, 1-2 get off. Then the bus pulls away. That part moves pretty well.

The distance from Main St. Flushing to LGA (using Q48), is much greater than 74th St. to LGA (using Q33)--but the Q48 is scheduled to get to the Delta (regular) terminal in 17-20 minutes. How come?
Answer(s): (1)fewer stops, (2)a large stretch on Roosevelt Ave. (near Shea Stadium)--few people get on or off.^

Why can't they run (say) every 4th bus express from 74th St. to LGA?

We were on the Q47 tonight and at least for tonight, I like that the route continues past 74th St as the bus let us off right at the entrance to the subway. Much closer than before. Also learned from the bus driver not to depend on the M60 from the Marine Air Terminal as he said once the M60 fills up, it will leave the airport and doesn't get go to the MAT. Not that we want to take the M60 but it's good to know what's what.

I guess I am the only person a bit worried about doing a nighttime, especially late night, transfer from the M60 to the 4 subway?

Why can't they run (say) every 4th bus express from 74th St. to LGA?They could, but that doesn't mean it makes sense to do so. And I'm pretty sure it doesn't. A once an hour express but that'll end up saving you 10 minutes? Are you going to let all the local buses pass to wait 45 minutes for the express?


I guess I am the only person a bit worried about doing a nighttime, especially late night, transfer from the M60 to the 4 subway?No, my guess is that there probably are others who share your irrational fear. But I'm not sure how that fits into this thread.

Despise the Q33 for every reason listed and have posted numerous times about it and preference for the Q72 (especially since they changed the route to circle LGA vs. before having to schlep across the parkway to the start on 94th St. across from the tiki hut bar.)

What I would LOVE to see is a route that goes LGA straight onto the Grand Central then the BQE and exits Northern Blvd and goes to Woodside via 61st and then maybe circles to Roosevelt Ave E/F station. That would have to be quicker than anything and eliminate a step if going to the LIRR.

What I would LOVE to see is a route that goes LGA straight onto the Grand Central then the BQE and exits Northern Blvd and goes to Woodside via 61st and then maybe circles to Roosevelt Ave E/F station. That would have to be quicker than anything and eliminate a step if going to the LIRR.I would like non-stop express service to my home and office. For $2.25. I find it unreasonable that the MTA doesn't offer that.

I do not know the roads that well in Queens but certainly it would not be unreasonable to have a bus leave Jackson Heights every 30 minutes and go straight to LGA on something other than a side street. The schedule is posted so you time your train to the bus, which is what I do anyway in the morning when the Q33 is only running every 20 or 30 minutes.

Now whether the MTA can get enough paxs to make the bus financially viable is another question. It seems most Manhattanietes I talk to know about the Airtrain to JFK but are surprised to hear of the subway/bus combination to LGA. But they seem to be turned off by the entire process instead springing for a cab or car service.

I would like non-stop express service to my home and office. For $2.25. I find it unreasonable that the MTA doesn't offer that.

:rolleyes:

Barring a dedicated rail link to LaGuardia, a quick, non-stop, high frequency, easy on, easy off bus link a close LIRR and subway station seems like a good way to encourage public transportation to the airport. When I've taken cabs from the airport to Woodside to catch the train they take the GCP to the BQE usually. I would have to assume there are more folk interested in that than the M-Blumie Limited.

:rolleyes:

Barring a dedicated rail link to LaGuardia, a quick, non-stop, high frequency, easy on, easy off bus link a close LIRR and subway station seems like a good way to encourage public transportation to the airport. When I've taken cabs from the airport to Woodside to catch the train they take the GCP to the BQE usually. I would have to assume there are more folk interested in that than the M-Blumie Limited.
Here's the issue that people seem not to want to address:

Everyone would love to see high frequency, high speed service to the airport. The question is what that costs and whether the costs are worth the benefit. NYC already has excellent public transportation to and from the airport. Yes, it seems at times that it crawls, and it can get crowded. But for $2.25, one can get from LGA to midtown Manhattan reliably in an hour. Sure, sometimes it takes 75 minutes, but more often than not you can do it in an hour. So in this time of shrinking budgets, does it make sense to spend $xxx million to reduce that transit time from an hour to 45 minutes? It's not good enough to say that high speed, high frequency service is a good thing. You have to be able to justify it in terms of the cost of providing the service.

Here's the issue that people seem not to want to address:

Everyone would love to see high frequency, high speed service to the airport. The question is what that costs and whether the costs are worth the benefit. NYC already has excellent public transportation to and from the airport. Yes, it seems at times that it crawls, and it can get crowded. But for $2.25, one can get from LGA to midtown Manhattan reliably in an hour. Sure, sometimes it takes 75 minutes, but more often than not you can do it in an hour. So in this time of shrinking budgets, does it make sense to spend $xxx million to reduce that transit time from an hour to 45 minutes? It's not good enough to say that high speed, high frequency service is a good thing. You have to be able to justify it in terms of the cost of providing the service.

I'm assuming that the MTA could test lets say a $5 express bus ($7.25 total with subway) from Jackson Heights to LGA, leaving every 30 minutes from lets say 4:30AM to 7PM and taking a quicke direct routing. The question becomes would there by sufficient ridership to make it financially viable.

I'm assuming that the MTA could test lets say a $5 express bus ($7.25 total with subway) from Jackson Heights to LGA, leaving every 30 minutes from lets say 4:30AM to 7PM and taking a quicke direct routing. The question becomes would there by sufficient ridership to make it financially viable.The problem is that you're just making up numbers, which I hope isn't the way the MTA operates.

BTW, when I need express service, I'll take the subway to Jackson Heights ($2.25) and then grab a black car from there (usually $12). I never have any problem finding a car, and it takes 10-15 minutes via the BQE and GCP to LGA.

The problem is that you're just making up numbers, which I hope isn't the way the MTA operates.

BTW, when I need express service, I'll take the subway to Jackson Heights ($2.25) and then grab a black car from there (usually $12). I never have any problem finding a car, and it takes 10-15 minutes via the BQE and GCP to LGA.

The point is that the MTA already has express buses that cost more than then standard $2.25 fare. Now at what price point the MTA would need to make it financially viable based upon the number of paxs they think would use the service would be up to the MTA.

If it was in the $5-$7 range (which IIRC is about what Express buses to the outer borroughs cost, another poster may know for sure) I'd certainly use the service, assuming its a more direct route that is not going down a one way street such as 82nd Street.

I would like non-stop express service to my home and office. For $2.25. I find it unreasonable that the MTA doesn't offer that.I know! ;)

It seems most Manhattanietes I talk to know about the Airtrain to JFK but are surprised to hear of the subway/bus combination to LGA. But they seem to be turned off by the entire process instead springing for a cab or car service.Are they also the same "Manhattanietes" whose only footsteps in Queens are to go to a Mets game or the US Open? :p

I will buy some bonds in support of a project to extend the N/Q from Astoria-Ditmars Blvd to LGA. It looks like 2.7 miles from the existing terminus to the Central Terminal Building when taking Ditmars Blvd.

At Second Avenue Subway construction prices, that would run about $7.3 billion, but I'm guessing the underground infrastructure is a bit less congested in Queens, so maybe even a bit less!

I guess I am the only person a bit worried about doing a nighttime, especially late night, transfer from the M60 to the 4 subway?

While I can't specifically speak about the transfer al Lexington Ave., I have taken the M 60 as late as 12:30 am or so at all times off the year and never had an issue transferring to the A, B, C, or D. In fact, last night took it and transferred at 10:30 pm
Your experince may vary.

In fact, last night took it and transferred at 10:30 pmAnd you didn't die?!?

...NYC already has excellent public transportation to and from the airport. Yes, it seems at times that it crawls, and it can get crowded. But for $2.25, one can get from LGA to midtown Manhattan reliably in an hour.....

Yuck, yuck, funny stuff. I travel pretty light but the up and down, up and down from bus to elevated to subway and back again is not excellent or convenient. It's cheap, sure, but excellent, no. If you happen to be along a route or want to go exactly to the terminus of a line then you can get there quick, but other than that it will take ages in NYC. LGA to UES: 20 minutes in cab or private car, public transport = forever (and it will be raining for the 3 avenue walk to EEA). UES to Penn Station to catch the LIRR: cab or bus/subway = forever. LGA to JFK via public transportation = claw your eyes out (though at least in your car while you crawl along the Van Wyck you can listen to the radio). No doubt this all goes back to the fractured history of the public transport system and is perpetuated by the public transport unions crowding out private options.

Don't get me wrong, when I get to town and step on the 7 train it's the epitome of melting pot. The UN on steel wheels. What a hoot! Standing on the corner of Roosevelt and Junction Blvd in front of the Duncan Donuts waiting for the bus back to the airport watching the world go by is quintessentially New York and I love it every time I'm here.

Yuck, yuck, funny stuff. I travel pretty light but the up and down, up and down from bus to elevated to subway and back again is not excellent or convenient. It's cheap, sure, but excellent, no. If you happen to be along a route or want to go exactly to the terminus of a line then you can get there quick, but other than that it will take ages in NYC. LGA to UES: 20 minutes in cab or private car, public transport = forever (and it will be raining for the 3 avenue walk to EEA). UES to Penn Station to catch the LIRR: cab or bus/subway = forever. LGA to JFK via public transportation = claw your eyes out (though at least in your car while you crawl along the Van Wyck you can listen to the radio). No doubt this all goes back to the fractured history of the public transport system and is perpetuated by the public transport unions crowding out private options.

Don't get me wrong, when I get to town and step on the 7 train it's the epitome of melting pot. The UN on steel wheels. What a hoot! Standing on the corner of Roosevelt and Junction Blvd in front of the Duncan Donuts waiting for the bus back to the airport watching the world go by is quintessentially New York and I love it every time I'm here.
I think you have unrealistic expectations about what public transportation can and can not deliver. I've taken public transportation to and from airports all over the world, and think that NYC does a pretty fine job in comparison. Sure London has the fancy HEX, but it takes quite a walk to get to it, and deposits you at Paddington Station, which I am guessing is not the final destination for over 99% of its riders. And it costs a boatload more than $2.25. Paris has decent train service, but again one must walk to it, and then usually transfer once in central Paris. Don't get me wrong: as I've repeatedly said I'd love frequent, reliable and cheap door-to-door service to my home and office, but that's just not what public transportation is designed to deliver.

By the way, today was one of those days on the Q33 where it stopped every five feet, was crowded and hit traffic. Yet it still took me only 70 minutes from the moment I emerged from the terminal to the moment I stepped in to my office near Bryant Park. Not bad for $2.25. So NYC should spend a kazillion dollars and disrupt countless lives (see the 2nd Avenue Subway construction) to save me what, maybe 20 minutes on a bad day, and maybe 10 on a good day?

Fair point. The bus is scheduled for 25-30 minutes from the Jackson Heights subway to Central terminal. I'm pretty sure I've done that trip by gypsy cab in about 10 minutes (on the BQE to GCP) so maybe they could get an express bus down to 15-20, which would save 10-15 minutes. Doesn't really seem like a lot, but even 10 minutes off a 40-50 minute trip (from midtown on E/F train) is a good % savings.

... and if you get stuck behind a fuel truck or whatever servicing one of the apartment buildings on the section of narrower street the bus uses, any 10-15 minute savings will get wiped out pretty quickly.

For $2.25 from anywhere in Manhattan to LGA (or even JFK), I'm pretty content with the options as they are although I'd much prefer an Airtrain connection for JFK-Jamaica-LGA that would meet up nicely with the E and LIRR trains. I'ts not like a limited service stop bus using those same streets is going to fly over a stopped vehicle that blocks enough of the road to prevent the bus from passing.

... and if you get stuck behind a fuel truck or whatever servicing one of the apartment buildings on the section of narrower street the bus uses, any 10-15 minute savings will get wiped out pretty quickly.

For $2.25 from anywhere in Manhattan to LGA (or even JFK), I'm pretty content with the options as they are although I'd much prefer an Airtrain connection for JFK-Jamaica-LGA that would meet up nicely with the E and LIRR trains. I'ts not like a limited service stop bus using those same streets is going to fly over a stopped vehicle that blocks enough of the road to prevent the bus from passing.

Living in Manhattan I think we get spoiled with the speed at which we can travel through the island due to express tracks. I would agree that sending an express bus down 82/83 street would shave only a few minutes, maybe five at the most off the time.

Looking at Google map, the subway stop is very close to the BQE. That could speed it up except for rush hour in the afternoon and of course when it rains or when construction is going on. Again, how much time that could realistically take off the trip even with road conditions on the BQE are good.

Still, if the MTA offered a $5 direct bus to LGA I'd take it. I will be first to admit I am a typical Manhattan centered person that has zero patience. If its not moving to me its annoying.

If you happen to be along a route or want to go exactly to the terminus of a line then you can get there quick, but other than that it will take ages in NYC. LGA to UES: 20 minutes in cab or private car, public transport = forever (and it will be raining for the 3 avenue walk to EEA). UES to Penn Station to catch the LIRR: cab or bus/subway = forever.

East End Avenue simply isn't well served by public transit. And sort of by definition, areas that aren't along a public transit route aren't going to have good public transit options from the airport, no?

East End Avenue simply isn't well served by public transit. And sort of by definition, areas that aren't along a public transit route aren't going to have good public transit options from the airport, no?

That wasn't my point of course. Although the best option is the cab or car in that particular case.

Everyone keeps crowing about the $2.25 fare price on MTA and how far you can go. Well, come on. You can't get on the Airtrain for that and you do get what you pay for. The A train is no sweet ride. Clickity clack.... And we're obviously in discussions about the bus rides. In comparison to other major metropolitan airport rail/bus connections I'd rate the $2.25 MTA deal low on the scale. One that compares is the Paddington line out to Heathrow, but now they realized that wasn't great and offer the premium HEX service.

That wasn't my point of course. Although the best option is the cab or car in that particular case.

Everyone keeps crowing about the $2.25 fare price on MTA and how far you can go. Well, come on. You can't get on the Airtrain for that and you do get what you pay for. The A train is no sweet ride. Clickity clack.... And we're obviously in discussions about the bus rides. In comparison to other major metropolitan airport rail/bus connections I'd rate the $2.25 MTA deal low on the scale. One that compares is the Paddington line out to Heathrow, but now they realized that wasn't great and offer the premium HEX service.

Actually there is a London equivalent of the $2.25 ride and that is taking the Piccadilly line into London from Heathrow. It's a similar slow service. I think the main complaint that those services that are advertised as being a "premium" service like AirTrain and LIRR are significantly worse than say HEX or the HK MTR.

As for the Paris connection RER B actually takes you through the center of Paris it would be similar to getting an LIRR train that took you to Grand Central, Penn Station and Times Square.

Everyone keeps crowing about the $2.25 fare price on MTA and how far you can go. Well, come on. You can't get on the Airtrain for that and you do get what you pay for. The A train is no sweet ride. Clickity clack.... And we're obviously in discussions about the bus rides. In comparison to other major metropolitan airport rail/bus connections I'd rate the $2.25 MTA deal low on the scale. One that compares is the Paddington line out to Heathrow, but now they realized that wasn't great and offer the premium HEX service.

I believe the Airtrain JFK was designed to have the same track and platform specs as either the IND/BMT subways or the LIRR (or maybe both? I'm not sure how much the LIRR specs differ from the IND/BMT) so that some day it might be possible to have single seat service from Manhattan. Of course the big issue would be how to time it so that it wouldn't get stuck behind regular local service (especially if it has to run on the subway tracks and not LIRR).

But I still don't see how your East End Avenue example is at all relevant to HEX. Just as EEA is inconvenient from most NYC mass transit services, there are plenty of parts of London from which it would make no sense to take the HEX.

TOne that compares is the Paddington line out to Heathrow, but now they realized that wasn't great and offer the premium HEX service.

Actually, the reverse is true. The Paddington to Heathrow line opened in 1998 and only had super-expensive express service on it. Later they added the not-quite-so-eye-watering Heathrow Connect service, which still charges premium prices but stops a few places and only surcharges over a regular fare by about £5 ($8). You could compare it to AirTrain, except that it goes a bit further than the nearest interchange.

And of course the Tube has been running there since 1977 for a regular Tube fare (more than $2.25 of course -- about $7 morning peak, $4 otherwise)

I believe the Airtrain JFK was designed to have the same track and platform specs as either the IND/BMT subways or the LIRR (or maybe both? I'm not sure how much the LIRR specs differ from the IND/BMT) so that some day it might be possible to have single seat service from Manhattan. Of course the big issue would be how to time it so that it wouldn't get stuck behind regular local service (especially if it has to run on the subway tracks and not LIRR). Well, the E/F are express through Queens and they work in between the locals. It's mostly a shame to see poorly integrated connections when they had the chance to do a bit better.

But I still don't see how your East End Avenue example is at all relevant to HEX. Just as EEA is inconvenient from most NYC mass transit services, there are plenty of parts of London from which it would make no sense to take the HEX. The EEA example was simply a response to those touting the fantastic NYC transit system and how it's not great for certain areas. You are much, much better off taking a cab to 79th & EEA/York from the airport vs. dealing with the bus or subway.

....And of course the Tube has been running there since 1977 for a regular Tube fare (more than $2.25 of course -- about $7 morning peak, $4 otherwise) I did not realize that even the Tube had become so expensive.

As for the Paris connection RER B actually takes you through the center of Paris it would be similar to getting an LIRR train that took you to Grand Central, Penn Station and Times Square. Yes, I know. And it's as dirty as the LIRR! Though I will have to admit that there is more grafitti on the RER.

Well, the E/F are express through Queens and they work in between the locals. It's mostly a shame to see poorly integrated connections when they had the chance to do a bit better.I don't get your point here. Certainly all would prefer a single seat ride to Manhattan, but what is it about the connections that are poorly integrated?


The EEA example was simply a response to those touting the fantastic NYC transit system and how it's not great for certain areas. You are much, much better off taking a cab to 79th & EEA/York from the airport vs. dealing with the bus or subway.The NYC transit system is terrific. The fact that there are certain parts of the city that are more easily accessible by taxi doesn't change that. You seem to be disappointed that the NYC transit system is not all things to all people.

I think it's a lot to ask to be transported from LGA to Manhattan any more quickly / frequently than today's system does it for the same $2.25. I think $7.25 to JFK is a helluva deal, and those who envy London's HEX should note that a one-way ticket is the equivalent of $20 or so -- more than a buck per minute in motion.

If it was in the $5-$7 range (which IIRC is about what Express buses to the outer borroughs cost, another poster may know for sure) I'd certainly use the service...

For my money this thing, @ $12.00 or $12.50 per one-way trip, has never let me down:

http://www.nycairporter.com/

If I am leaving Manhattan for LGA I usually go down to GCT and grab the Airporter. If I am arriving at LGA I wait for the Airporter if it's 5 or 8 minutes away, otherwise get a cab.

The tariff is fair and the ride is not much slower than a cab for 30% to 50% of the price. And I will happily pay $12 instead of $2.25 to avoid this:

I travel pretty light but the up and down, up and down from bus to elevated to subway and back again is not excellent or convenient. It's cheap, sure, but excellent, no.

Agree.

....And of course the Tube has been running there since 1977 for a regular Tube fare (more than $2.25 of course -- about $7 morning peak, $4 otherwise) I did not realize that even the Tube had become so expensive.Well the London Underground uses zone pricing and I believe LHR is in one of the furthest zones. It's £5 cash one-way or £2.70-4.50 with an Oyster card.

99% of the time I took the Q33 was at 6:30 am or 11 pm. It wasn't pokey at those times - usually took 20 minutes from Jackson Heights to Central Terminal. I stopped taking the overstuffed M60 once I realized the Q33 took me to the E train. The M60 always had a line of people with tons of luggage waiting to get on whereas the Q33 had maybe 3 people with luggage get on and the rest were usually employees and others.

99% of the time I took the Q33 was at 6:30 am or 11 pm. It wasn't pokey at those times - usually took 20 minutes from Jackson Heights to Central Terminal. I stopped taking the overstuffed M60 once I realized the Q33 took me to the E train. The M60 always had a line of people with tons of luggage waiting to get on whereas the Q33 had maybe 3 people with luggage get on and the rest were usually employees and others.Right there, you've written a PSA to avoid the M60 and take the Queens buses instead. :p

For my money this thing, @ $12.00 or $12.50 per one-way trip, has never let me down:

http://www.nycairporter.com/

If I am leaving Manhattan for LGA I usually go down to GCT and grab the Airporter


How many seats are left at the GCT since that is the last stop in Manhattan?

I had called the airporter and was told I would be taking a chance should I decide to get on at GCT. I didn't want to get on at Penn station and circle around for one hour for other pickups.

How many seats are left at the GCT since that is the last stop in Manhattan?

I had called the airporter and was told I would be taking a chance should I decide to get on at GCT. I didn't want to get on at Penn station and circle around for one hour for other pickups.Well there you go; avoid the "Airporter" if you plan to board at GCT. It's a waste of time. I'd avoid it on the west side too as I would the "Super Shuttle".

The East End Av example is a pretty edge case (literally, the edge of Manhattan!). But if that were me, I'd take a cab to LGA 100% of the time, yes. But to JFK, I might actually consider a cab to 53rd/3rd to take the E. I never, never take a cab to JFK during the day, and especially not in the afternoon/early evening.

Used the Q33 + E train combo both ways in recent days: New Year's Day around 1300 and again yesterday afternoon at 1500.

Route was LGA to Lex/East 53rd.

Speaking as 2x/year user, this route works for me and gives visitors a very interesting view on parts of the city that would otherwise be invisible.

I like the pokiness. :D

Used the Q33 + E train combo both ways in recent days: New Year's Day around 1300 and again yesterday afternoon at 1500.

Route was LGA to Lex/East 53rd.

Speaking as 2x/year user, this route works for me and gives visitors a very interesting view on parts of the city that would otherwise be invisible.

I like the pokiness. :DThat's my route. :)

One thing I'v just noticed as a small improvement. Before 6AM all buses from Jackson Heights to LGA ran every 30 minutes with the 5:30AM and 6AM buses often being overcrowded but now there is a 5:45AM bus.

It also helps because the E and F often run behind posted schedules before that time because of track work that slows speeds or even halts trains for a few minutes. For example, the E is set to arrive Jackson Heights at 5:20AM but routinely gets there in time just to miss the 5:30AM bus. So if you miss the 5:30AM bus you are not waiting another up to 30 minutes.