Virgin America Elevate - Any Word on a forthcoming Elite Program?

As a current American Airlines platinum member, I've been patiently waiting (and hoping) for an elite program to switch my loyalty over (especially since I'm based out of SFO). Has there been any word on the development of such a program?

Hope you have much more patience :)

IF it does happen, probably not until late next year.

As a current American Airlines platinum member, I've been patiently waiting (and hoping) for an elite program to switch my loyalty over (especially since I'm based out of SFO).

What would you expect out of this kind of a program?

What would you expect out of this kind of a program?

What we all expect from an elite program: upgrades :)

What we all expect from an elite program: upgrades :)

That will not happen, I saw an article where David Cush is quoted that VX will never give out free upgrades for an elite level.

Frankly from those who enjoy VX First that will be the worse thing as it will bring down the service level.

That will not happen, I saw an article where David Cush is quoted that VX will never give out free upgrades for an elite level.

Frankly from those who enjoy VX First that will be the worse thing as it will bring down the service level.

Completely understandable. How about the occasional MCS upgrade, along with certain fee waivers, priority services, bonus points, a few RED purchase credits, etc.? Those would go a long way to offering some semblance of carrots for long-term loyalty.

Airline has become too dependent on the overpriced MCS upgrades and fees, not to mention F revenue. They're not in a position financially to give any of that away.

Cut back my VX flying after I got stuck in the E group and had to gate check my bag, which I never do on other airlines. VX is simply not a great option for the frequent flyer.

That will not happen, I saw an article where David Cush is quoted that VX will never give out free upgrades for an elite level.

Frankly from those who enjoy VX First that will be the worse thing as it will bring down the service level.

There are just not enough upgradeable seats onboard for them to "give" them away for something as silly as frequent flyer loyalty.

There are just not enough upgradeable seats onboard for them to "give" them away for something as silly as frequent flyer loyalty.

Yes, frequent flyer programs are such a silly concept

Airline has become too dependent on the overpriced MCS upgrades and fees, not to mention F revenue. They're not in a position financially to give any of that away.

Cut back my VX flying after I got stuck in the E group and had to gate check my bag, which I never do on other airlines. VX is simply not a great option for the frequent flyer.

It's a perfectly fine option if you expect to pay for what you get, as opposed to thinking that buying a lot more cheap fares than other people entitles you to the privileges accustomed to more expensive fares.

Yes, frequent flyer programs are such a silly concept

WN has a much better record of consistent profitability than airlines which cater to frequent fliers with free upgrades. That's VX's model: you get what you pay for. If you want more special stuff, pay for it. It may not work against the competition, but it's an interesting model.

What we all expect from an elite program: upgrades :)

I think a decent VX elite program would consist of:
(1) Check-in priority
(2) Baggage allowance
(3) Boarding priority
(4) A F&B/Entertainment credit of sorts in the main cabin for the top tier

The integrity of the premium sections of the plane are maintained, and the airline can keep some more business travelers that have status elsewhere and just won't deal with gate checked bags, long lines, and the like.

That will not happen, I saw an article where David Cush is quoted that VX will never give out free upgrades for an elite level.

Frankly from those who enjoy VX First that will be the worse thing as it will bring down the service level.

^^Agreed. I say keep things the way they are and I fly with them frequently.

Yes, frequent flyer programs are such a silly concept

In truth, they are a silly and uncompetitive idea:

*Force you to keep your business with a particular carrier long after their hard product goes stale due to a fear of unredeemed miles expiring.

*Likewise forces you to take longer, indirect routings and pay more in fares relative to a nonstop and/or cheaper fare on another carrier.

*Subsidizes the anticompetitive nature of legacy carriers by securing your loyalty to them after they match a new entrant's fare and schedule in a market, rather than patronizing the new entrant who brought competition in the first place.

In truth, they are a silly and uncompetitive idea:

*Force you to keep your business with a particular carrier long after their hard product goes stale due to a fear of unredeemed miles expiring.

*Likewise forces you to take longer, indirect routings and pay more in fares relative to a nonstop and/or cheaper fare on another carrier.

*Subsidizes the anticompetitive nature of legacy carriers by securing your loyalty to them after they match a new entrant's fare and schedule in a market, rather than patronizing the new entrant who brought competition in the first place.

And this is why Norway has made FFPs illegal for domestic flights.

The horror, I know!

In truth, they are a silly and uncompetitive idea:

*Force you to keep your business with a particular carrier long after their hard product goes stale due to a fear of unredeemed miles expiring.

*Likewise forces you to take longer, indirect routings and pay more in fares relative to a nonstop and/or cheaper fare on another carrier.

*Subsidizes the anticompetitive nature of legacy carriers by securing your loyalty to them after they match a new entrant's fare and schedule in a market, rather than patronizing the new entrant who brought competition in the first place.

You know what?

Nobody holds a gun to your head to make you fly on a particular airline.

In fact, you're not even required to CLAIM frequent flyer miles. Leave the field blank. Millions of people do this every year. This removes any incentive to do anything other than fly what you want (not to mention that it's usually trivially easy to keep programs active and miles unexpired).

So I find your pleading that oh, goodness, it's so UNFAIR that legacies have frequent flyer programs to be pure bunk. Nothing requires you to act against your own best interests when it comes to which airline you fly. The simple fact is that people are willing to suffer dreary old planes to get that first class trip to Bali or to occasionally get the big chair and free drinks on their domestic travel. This may not be entirely logical (so, you're willing to suffer hundreds of hours of bad flights to get a few hours of really excellent ones?), but the idea that governments should nanny state choices away... I don't buy it.

I was an enthusiastic VA flyer when my travel was limited to a few personal trips a year but when I started traveling much more frequently for work, I jumped ship to one of the bigger, more traditional FF programs.

When you're travelling a lot, the little things start to matter more. Access to shorter check-in and security lines, getting onboard the airplane earlier to insure you don't get stuck gate-checking your bag, no fees for checked baggage, free access to better onboard seating .... it all adds up to a faster, more pleasant travel experience. I get all those as a FF on another airline.

You do get all that if you buy a seat in Main Cabin Select or First Class.

WN has a much better record of consistent profitability than airlines which cater to frequent fliers with free upgrades. That's VX's model: you get what you pay for. If you want more special stuff, pay for it. It may not work against the competition, but it's an interesting model.

Huh? WN gives away an entire seat to its frequent flyers (Companion Pass) in addition to giving them the best seats and early boarding so they can stow their overhead bag.

You do get all that if you buy a seat in Main Cabin Select or First Class.

It's a lot cheaper to buy $149 UA/CO transcon fares and still get all those benefits.

To each their own -- VX occupies a unique place in the U.S. domestic airline ecosystem.

It's a lot cheaper to buy $149 UA/CO transcon fares and still get all those benefits.

To each their own -- VX occupies a unique place in the U.S. domestic airline ecosystem.

This is where the benefits will truly be deserved.

VX uses points not miles so people who spend money will show up as high point earners.

So I find your pleading that oh, goodness, it's so UNFAIR that legacies have frequent flyer programs to be pure bunk.

It is not unfair for a firm to create a loyalty program to reward its better clients. But when such a program is used to destroy innovation and competition in a market, whom does that really benefit?

In nearly every other industry the newer, fresher, nimbler competitor is able to overcome inherent economic obstacles to carve a niche in the marketplace and thrive, not just survive. Why is the airline industry different? Because the regulatory environment permits entrenched legacy players to maintain obstacles in the form of airport real estate, arrival and departure slots, etc., which are inherent barriers to entry for a new entrant. Unless there is a paradigm shift in how the country travels, legacy carriers with their outdated product and service will continue to exist long past the time they would have been extinct in a parrallel industry.

I was an enthusiastic VA flyer when my travel was limited to a few personal trips a year but when I started traveling much more frequently for work, I jumped ship to one of the bigger, more traditional FF programs.

When you're travelling a lot, the little things start to matter more. Access to shorter check-in and security lines, getting onboard the airplane earlier to insure you don't get stuck gate-checking your bag, no fees for checked baggage, free access to better onboard seating .... it all adds up to a faster, more pleasant travel experience. I get all those as a FF on another airline.

Yup, an artificial bottleneck. Typical legacy carrier boardroom thinking; let the travel experience deteriorate to the point you are compelled to spend more to get more, thereby squeezing more yield along the way via nickel and diming. And if you are unwilling to play their game? A sh*t sandwich for you way in the back in boarding group E.

Huh? WN gives away an entire seat to its frequent flyers (Companion Pass) in addition to giving them the best seats and early boarding so they can stow their overhead bag.

And they give away precisely zero upgrades, as well as having a FF program that awards points based on spend, just like VX.

Huh? WN gives away an entire seat to its frequent flyers (Companion Pass) in addition to giving them the best seats and early boarding so they can stow their overhead bag.

And they give away precisely zero upgrades, as well as having a FF program that awards points based on spend, just like VX.


In nearly every other industry the newer, fresher, nimbler competitor is able to overcome inherent economic obstacles to carve a niche in the marketplace and thrive, not just survive. Why is the airline industry different? Because the regulatory environment permits entrenched legacy players to maintain obstacles in the form of airport real estate, arrival and departure slots, etc., which are inherent barriers to entry for a new entrant.

I agree. I just don't agree that mandating that loyalty programs not be part of the equation is the solution for that.

I also think that the success of B6, WN, AS and VX in the time since deregulation shows it's possible to be successful. Just because firms have failed and merged in a regulated industry doesn't mean there haven't been newcomers doing things. Take the computer industry- Gateway, Compaq, HP, Apple. Compare that industry 15 years ago to today. A lot's changed there, some has stayed the same.

In nearly every other industry the newer, fresher, nimbler competitor is able to overcome inherent economic obstacles to carve a niche in the marketplace and thrive, not just survive. Why is the airline industry different? Because the regulatory environment permits entrenched legacy players to maintain obstacles in the form of airport real estate, arrival and departure slots, etc., which are inherent barriers to entry for a new entrant. Unless there is a paradigm shift in how the country travels, legacy carriers with their outdated product and service will continue to exist long past the time they would have been extinct in a parallel industry.

Wow, very well put. ^

The airline industry and the computer industry are completely different. How many computer companies spewing out terrible products go into bankruptcy one or more times and live on for decades past their prime? How many computer companies come out of bankruptcy and are bankrolled by the credit card companies that buy up their frequent flyer points. DL was saved by American Express and screwing its creditors--not its brilliant management, innovative products, etc. The pattern repeats itself over and over again with legacy carriers.

The airline industry and the computer industry are completely different. How many computer companies spewing out terrible products go into bankruptcy one or more times and live on for decades past their prime?

You never owned an Amiga, did you? ;)

And Apple came quite close to doing just that: their products in the mid-90's weren't very good and they damn near went broke. 15 years later...

Anyways, back to the point: simply put, I don't think that loyalty programs are what keep new entrants to the airline industry from being successful. If VX fails, it's likely because they botched their timing on entering into service (entering the market at a time where fuel prices skyrocketed AND a recession hit, which has done a number on their venture capital), and because they've botched their transition to Sabre. Those are pretty much own-goals.