TalkBoard Topics - Proposal: Aegean Airlines Forum

This was proposed a while back, and it ended up as some argument over TalkBoard's policies and not about A3.

To start, I will explain what Aegean Airlines is. Aegean Airlines (IATA:A3) is a full service airline based in Greece. It is a member of *A. What makes A3 significant to FT is the fact that A3 has the lowest qualification requirements for *S and *G in the entire alliance. This makes it a very attractive FFP for those who fly less than 50k miles per year, since *G is obviously much more useful than *S from another airline. While A3 might be a relatively irrelevant airline in real life, it is certainly an airline of great importance to the community here at FT.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/other-european-frequent-flyer-programs/920881-aegean-airlines-miles-bonus.html

This is the major thread regarding Aegean. It has 40 pages of posts, with tons of information that is impossible to find. Someone asks a question, it gets answered, and it gets swept up by the next pages until nobody knows what the answer is and it needs to be asked again. An Aegean Airlines forum would allow topics to be discussed in a more organized fashion.

Now, I will answer the questions:
1. Will the forum be (or is it now) beneficial to FlyerTalk?

It would be very beneficial for FT. A3, being the airline with the lowest qualification requirements in *A, has one of the most important FFPs in the entire alliance as far as FT is concerned. A3 has a similar importance as BD used to have - since BD will likely cease to exist in the near future, it can be argued that A3 is more important now.

2. Will the new forum benefit a relationship with FlyerTalk? E.g., does the forum provide value for FT members, such as a friendly ear highly placed in the company

No, creating a forum will not automatically gain FT a company representative, although a request could certainly be made

3. Is FT the best place to discuss this subject?

Without a doubt. I can't think of many other places where an airline like this would be considered important. But at FT, A3 is certainly an important airline.


4. Is there a passionate following? This is essential in order to provide dedicated expert helpers to get questions answered.

Certainly. Members KLouis, Egor, Nogobad and countless others who do not pop up at the top of my mind have all been very helpful in answering questions in the past, and I try to answer questions too.

5. Is a critical mass of posts and readers anticipated or existing? We need adequate traffic to keep everyone visiting frequently. One living forum is more valuable than two mostly dead ones.

Almost 600 posts on the thread I mentioned above. And there are other threads which also have posts. It is also important to keep in mind that A3 only became relevant recently, when the joined *A. Therefore, the post count is lower than it would have been if the airline had been important to FT for a while.



6. Is this the best place on FlyerTalk for this subject? This is the classification issue. The answer depends primarily on achieving and maintaining critical mass. It also depends on whether or where the discussion might (or does) occur in the absence of the forum.

Currently, A3 posts are mostly split up between the Other European FFPs forum and the *A forum. I think that creating a new forum would help centralize the information and make it more accessible to members without having to go searching through 2 different forums.

7. For proposals to split a forum, is the split expected to improve the signal to noise ratio? Why?

N/A


Any comments are greatly appreciated

+1

You got my vote on this one! As you have said, there are multiple posts revolving around the same topic. Let me give an example.

I am sure many of us will remember the countless times this question has appeared on the Aegean thread.

"how long does my *S or *G status last?"

Or

"does the miles earned expire within a membership year?"

It does not seem socially viable to answer each single question pertaining to these topics as and when they pop up. You have to understand that these type of questions are not going to end in the long run, but to further accumulate. At this point I may ask a question, wouldn't FT be unreliable if a collection of questions are not answered for a long period? This will be what a prospective member will see when they chance upon the thread/forum. Thus, by allowing a sub forum under the name of Aegean Miles and Bonus to be created, as Nogbad has said in a post, a sticky can be implemented to list out the various basic facts about the FFP, and solve the never ending problem. Us at FT we will try our very best to answer each and every question posed to us in any manner, but there comes a certain point of time where constant answering and rambling on a constant topic does not help the community but breed trouble for it.

Many great sub forums have started out as the way we have done today, and we have just merely trailblazed a new path, but this new path will not only create a piece of haven where all A3 FFP members may call home to but a new generation of thinkers, but one day may revolutionize/change the ways we view status/miles forever.

I salute you, the fighters that fight for the creation of this forum, and the ideals you hold that can improve the social atmosphere of this forum one way or another!

I sincerely hope that my arguments listed above can be taken into reference in account of the crucial decision to approve the creation of the said sub forum.

I would certainly like to see a forum dedicated to A3. Like mentioned by PVDtoDEL, the existing thread(s) on A3 topics is not an ideal solution for finding answers to common questions, and I would greatly appreciate a separate forum for A3-specific issues.

Thank you for the support guys :)

I doubt thwy will have reconsider again to create new A3 forum. Not for a while unless if they have enough more than 200 post.

I would agree if Talkboard will have a decide to create new forum sometime in the future.

I doubt thwy will have reconsider again to create new A3 forum. Not for a while unless if they have enough more than 200 post.

I would agree if Talkboard will have a decide to create new forum sometime in the future.

The thread I linked to has 600 posts, a lot more than 200. :)

The thread I linked to has 600 posts, a lot more than 200. :)

Wow! I think it's time to create new forum. Talkboard will have an approval. I think it's good idea for me to create new A3 forum.

I agree I think A3 should have its own forum.

I am approaching this as an outsider so please oblige me a few questions.

There exists a very popular thread in the OEFFP forum which it seems to me covers a single theme - the attraction of Aegean Airlines FFP's low qualification requirements for *S and *G.

If this thread has grown unwieldy are there workable remedies to improve the flow of discussion within the current forum structure, i.e. perhaps the existing thread could benefit if it was broken down into smaller more manageable threads, but still occupying a place in OEFFP? If done, what is the probable impact on the greater forum? Would discussion of Aegean begin to overwhelm the forum?

Looking beyond this single thread, I see one or two new Aegean related threads per month, none of which harvest any sizeable contribution. This, I believe provides a closer representation of the need for a dedicated forum and if we are realistic in our analysis, there isn't much to support this proposal based on this metric alone.

In summary, I see the http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/other-european-frequent-flyer-programs/920881-aegean-airlines-miles-bonus.html thread as a bit of an oddity, not too dissimilar to the http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/milesbuzz/833911-buy-presidential-dollar-coins-cc-face-value-free-shipping.html thread over on MilesBuzz! While vibrant, it is pretty one dimensional so I'm not sure it warrants it's own forum.

I am approaching this as an outsider so please oblige me a few questions.

There exists a very popular thread in the OEFFP forum which it seems to me covers a single theme - the attraction of Aegean Airlines FFP's low qualification requirements for *S and *G.

If this thread has grown unwieldy are there workable remedies to improve the flow of discussion within the current forum structure, i.e. perhaps the existing thread could benefit if it was broken down into smaller more manageable threads, but still occupying a place in OEFFP? If done, what is the probable impact on the greater forum? Would discussion of Aegean begin to overwhelm the forum?

Looking beyond this single thread, I see one or two new Aegean related threads per month, none of which harvest any sizeable contribution. This, I believe provides a closer representation of the need for a dedicated forum and if we are realistic in our analysis, there isn't much to support this proposal based on this metric alone.

In summary, I see the http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/other-european-frequent-flyer-programs/920881-aegean-airlines-miles-bonus.html thread as a bit of an oddity, not too dissimilar to the http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/milesbuzz/833911-buy-presidential-dollar-coins-cc-face-value-free-shipping.html thread over on MilesBuzz! While vibrant, it is pretty one dimensional so I'm not sure it warrants it's own forum.
If the thread were to be broken up, I am pretty sure it would completely dominate the OEFFP forum. There simply isn't that much activity on the OEFFP forum at all, and if A3 threads were to be broken up now and in the future, it would probably need to be renamed "Aegean Airlines Miles & Bonus (and Other European Frequent Flyer Programs)", since A3 threads would be too common.

As I said earlier, BD, TK, and OZ all have forums, and they are all very similar to A3 (low qualification, strong inflight experience - although BD might be an exception for the latter).

Aegean have signed some codeshare agreements recently (SK, US, CO) which may make this airline and its programme more interesting to more people.

I also agree on the structural problem, where the same questions get answered over and over again. At this point it might even be holding back other discussions regarding A3, as it is getting unrewarding and tiresome for people with knowledge on A3 to follow the thread. The creation of a sticky FAQ would help much.

The creation of a sticky FAQ would help much.

There are too many repetitive questions asked by newbies like me.

I too hoped for a easier reference for A3 as other FAQs at other boards have answered many of my questions.

An A3 board is definitely welcomed.

YES to an A3 forum!

Thanks for jumping through the TB's hoops, PVDtoDEL! ^^

sounds good to me!

Great idea- but again radio silence from TB.

This is the Talkboard forum- and no one from TB cares to participate the slighliest:confused:

Maybe we should have 9 new on TB now and not 5? Whats the points serving if you dont:rolleyes:

Great idea- but again radio silence from TB.

This is the Talkboard forum- and no one from TB cares to participate the slighliest:confused:

Maybe we should have 9 new on TB now and not 5? Whats the points serving if you dont:rolleyes:

Just because no one else seems to have registered an opinion here lately doesn't mean they aren't reading the forum. The election starts in a few days and traditionally, this isn't a very busy time for new proposals. This proposal isn't even a week old. Feel free to keep whining if it suits you, though...

Just because no one else seems to have registered an opinion here lately doesn't mean they aren't reading the forum. The election starts in a few days and traditionally, this isn't a very busy time for new proposals. This proposal isn't even a week old. Feel free to keep whining if it suits you, though...

Oh, please! Be nice to your friend and you don't have to be extremely rude. Be more respectable and be more cooperative.

Just because no one else seems to have registered an opinion here lately doesn't mean they aren't reading the forum. The election starts in a few days and traditionally, this isn't a very busy time for new proposals. This proposal isn't even a week old. Feel free to keep whining if it suits you, though...

:td:

Thanks for jumping through the TB's hoops, PVDtoDEL! ^^

No problem :)

Just because no one else seems to have registered an opinion here lately doesn't mean they aren't reading the forum. The election starts in a few days and traditionally, this isn't a very busy time for new proposals. This proposal isn't even a week old. Feel free to keep whining if it suits you, though...

Regardless of whether it traditionally is a busy time for new proposals or not, FT members have elected you guys, and we expect you to participate. In fact, I'd think that since there are less proposals out there right now, you guys would have more time to deal with such proposals.

No problem :)



Regardless of whether it traditionally is a busy time for new proposals or not, FT members have elected you guys, and we expect you to participate. In fact, I'd think that since there are less proposals out there right now, you guys would have more time to deal with such proposals.

I have been following this thread. However it's been less than a week since it was posted. I like to see community support and hear whar folks have to say when discussing a thread before moving forward with a motion. In the past, there have been complaints when the community wasn't given sufficient time to comment before a motion was made.

:td:

Got something to say?

When a member pretty much just shows up here just to throw rocks or complain, you better believe I'm going to call them out on it.

I have been following this thread. However it's been less than a week since it was posted. I like to see community support and hear whar folks have to say when discussing a thread before moving forward with a motion. In the past, there have been complaints when the community wasn't given sufficient time to comment before a motion was made.


I certainly have no issue at all with not motioning immediately. More discussion is obviously warranted. What I am not happy with is the fact that TalkBoard members aren't participating in this discussion.

I certainly have no issue at all with not motioning immediately. More discussion is obviously warranted. What I am not happy with is the fact that TalkBoard members aren't participating in this discussion.

That's somewhat understandable.

My take is that Aegean is on the bubble. It's a *A member and it appears that *Gold is easy to reach, but most of the good information is already nicely kept in one thread. There are a number of threads in OEFFP about A3 but not an overwhelming number. I'm on the fence, leaning toward yes.

I support this. It may be a fringe interest but questions and subsequent discussions about A3 come up in all sorts of unlikely places including, for instance, the Grrrr Larnaca thread on the BA forum. It would be great to have a thread to direct people to.

To word my argument better; The current A3-threads are overflowing with post of a few types, mostly concerning the milage needed to acquire *G, delivery time of the card, how well the A3*G is honoured around the world et.c. Also a bunch of posts like "can this really be true", "can I trick the system" and alike. Some of these questions are quite mindnumbing to answer repeatedly (even if most of the questions are valid for a newbie and some are not possible to get answered anywhere else)

The creation of a separate A3 forum, with the possibility to maintain a sticky FAQ, would probably initially decrease the number of posts as answers to such questions would be easy to find. While the decrease in posts may be an argument to not create the A3-forum, I do believe that other types of discussion will grow stronger in time with this change.

By removing the load for dedicated followers to answer again and again and by removing the clutter of posts for readers, there will be better room for other discussions to take place.

Just because no one else seems to have registered an opinion here lately doesn't mean they aren't reading the forum. The election starts in a few days and traditionally, this isn't a very busy time for new proposals. This proposal isn't even a week old. Feel free to keep whining if it suits you, though...

This proposal is far more than a week old, as you well know (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkboard-topics/1236497-new-forum-suggestion-aegean-airlines.html).

It really is sad that the President of the TB calls posters 'whiners' for asking why the TB is not doing it's job even after requiring that posters, imho, do the TB's job for them.

You know what, you just motivated me to run for the TB again. :mad:

This proposal is far more than a week old, as you well know (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkboard-topics/1236497-new-forum-suggestion-aegean-airlines.html).

It really is sad that the President of the TB calls posters 'whiners' for asking why the TB is not doing it's job even after requiring that posters, imho, do the TB's job for them.

You know what, you just motivated me to run for the TB again. :mad:

Good for you.

We're a volunteer, unpaid advisory board. We're not a punching bag for members to abuse when things aren't exactly as they'd like them to be, or when change/new ideas aren't implemented immediately.

This new suggestion, while revived, is indeed less than a week old. Not everyone is on FlyerTalk daily, nor do TalkBoard members have to comment right away when a suggestion is posted.

My vote for a separate Aegean forum given that we have quite a big number of FF on the Aegean M&B program.

I have now read the earlier thread with proposal of A3 forum linked by kokonutz above, and from post#3 there are complaints of Talkboard. I don't think that type of discussion is beneficial to the proposed cause, and I do ask of all to keep that discussion in another more appropriate place.

PVDtoDEL have made a proposal, let's discuss the pros and cons of that proposal here.

I have now read the earlier thread with proposal of A3 forum linked by kokonutz above, and from post#3 there are complaints of Talkboard. I don't think that type of discussion is beneficial to the proposed cause, and I do ask of all to keep that discussion in another more appropriate place.

PVDtoDEL have made a proposal, let's discuss the pros and cons of that proposal here.

I apologize. You are correct, this is not the right place to vent frustration at the TB.

Sorry for side-tracking this extremely welcome proposal.

Got something to say?

When a member pretty much just shows up here just to throw rocks or complain, you better believe I'm going to call them out on it.

Why yes. But the :td: pretty much said it all. I certainly didn't take the post as a "whine." It seemed to me to be a libertarian expression of ideas that was called a whine by the government of the IBB, a government which, save some very recent action, has been dearth in approval of legitimate requests for discrete fora.

I've been an active member of FT for about 12 years. I never had a clue that new proposals were seasonal. It should always be the season for new ideas. As one can see from the activity on the new LAN forum, if you build it, they will come. I don't know if I'd ever heard of Aegean Airlines but millions have, although not very North-America-centric, and every airline with a loyal following deserves the opportunity for a forum on Flyertalk.

I don't think anyone who has followed TB can accuse me of being shy/not posting on the TB threads since I joined TB a year ago!

I actually have been busy with 'real-life' stuff during the past week, so not really on FT that often. I do try to pop in, even with that, for a few moments, but if something isn't time critical I might not post or might push it out for a few days.

Since I'm not that familiar with Aegean, I had figured I'd do my homework on it, the threads, etc, this weekend. Hope that works for folk, but sorry if it doesn't.

Cheers.

Why yes. But the :td: pretty much said it all. I certainly didn't take the post as a "whine." It seemed to me to be a libertarian expression of ideas that was called a whine by the government of the IBB, a government which, save some very recent action, has been dearth in approval of legitimate requests for discrete fora.

I've been an active member of FT for about 12 years. I never had a clue that new proposals were seasonal. It should always be the season for new ideas. As one can see from the activity on the new LAN forum, if you build it, they will come. I don't know if I'd ever heard of Aegean Airlines but millions have, although not very North-America-centric, and every airline with a loyal following deserves the opportunity for a forum on Flyertalk.

Two points:

1) I very much read that post as a whine, if not outright abuse, especially considering that much of the member's input in this forum is snarky and amounts to nothing more than rock-throwing.

2) I am not in the 'build it and they will come' camp. For me, there should be a demonstrated need for a forum. Just because Bob's Pretty Good Crop Duster suddenly sprouts a FF program does mean it merits a forum on FlyerTalk. LAN made a good case, was approved, and has thrived. The "made a good case" part is pretty much essential to me. Other TalkBoard members may feel differently.

FWIW, I've been reading & there's some support amongst the members, but not a significant volume of support.

I realize that it's one of the easiest programs to achieve *G status on - so there's a benefit to FT.

I guess the question that arises in my mind is how many people are actually *flying* on Aegean vs. just using them for easy *G status? If most people posting on that thread & utilizing them are using them for the status and miles and not really flying them, then I think that if they got more popular and built up, the easier requirements for *G could go away and be a deteriment to those taking advantage of the program.

I'm leaning towards the sentiment's expressed in Prospero's post #9.

FWIW, I've been reading & there's some support amongst the members, but not a significant volume of support.

I realize that it's one of the easiest programs to achieve *G status on - so there's a benefit to FT.

I guess the question that arises in my mind is how many people are actually *flying* on Aegean vs. just using them for easy *G status? If most people posting on that thread & utilizing them are using them for the status and miles and not really flying them, then I think that if they got more popular and built up, the easier requirements for *G could go away and be a deteriment to those taking advantage of the program.

I'm leaning towards the sentiment's expressed in Prospero's post #9.

I fail to understand why it matters whether people are flying A3 or just using A3 for status. FlyerTalk is a forum centered around Miles and Points. They are the most important thing. Whether people fly A3 is 100% irrelevant. That said, I have flown A3, and it's a full service carrier. One of the best in the air in my opinion - service is good, seats are comfortable, food is edible (and I am very critical of Airline food, so this is a compliment), what else could you want on a regional airline?

Keep in mind that if COUA, the biggest airline in the world, didn't have an FFP, they wouldn't have a forum here on FT.

It's the FFP which is important, and A3 has one of the most important FFPs in *A (arguably THE most important, considering that the vast majority of the flying population does not fly enough to get their 100k/year *G status from their own airline)

+1

A3 forum would be very nice to have.

<snip> what else could you want on a regional airline?



most regional's don't have their own FFP...that said, that's not a deal breaker for me...


Keep in mind that if COUA, the biggest airline in the world, didn't have an FFP, they wouldn't have a forum here on FT.

not necessarily true...an airline as large at UA/CO would probably have a place on here, even without the FFP...


It's the FFP which is important, and A3 has one of the most important FFPs in *A (arguably THE most important, considering that the vast majority of the flying population does not fly enough to get their 100k/year *G status from their own airline)

100k/yr isn't the *G requirement for most airlines (none that I know of) - 50k at many...but not 100K/yr.

And I don't see how it's the most important one considering that very few people that participate on FT have shared this view on this thread.

I think that it's a combination of service and the FFP...yes, FT was founded on FFPs, but there are a lot of other discussion fora here...I just don't see the volume as yet, personally...

most regional's don't have their own FFP...that said, that's not a deal breaker for me...
This is true. It is also irrelevant, since in this case A3 DOES have an FFP.


not necessarily true...an airline as large at UA/CO would probably have a place on here, even without the FFP...

It would require a change in the way forums were organized. They are currently organized by FFPs, in a forum called Miles & Points. If there was no FFP, and therefore the airline did not deal with Miles or Points, then under the current organizational structure, I'm not sure whether it would work.


100k/yr isn't the *G requirement for most airlines (none that I know of) - 50k at many...but not 100K/yr.


Fair enough. I took the example of Miles & More, which is the biggest FFP in *A. However, many airlines do have lower thresholds, and taking the polar example probably wasn't a good idea on my part. Regardless, my point about many flyers (who FT undoubtedly wants to attract) don't fly enough to attain *G status on these airlines, and A3 is the best alternative out there.


And I don't see how it's the most important one considering that very few people that participate on FT have shared this view on this thread.

I think that it's a combination of service and the FFP...yes, FT was founded on FFPs, but there are a lot of other discussion fora here...I just don't see the volume as yet, personally...
I personally do think there is volume. I don't expect this to be a massive forum, but I think it would end up being a similar size as TK, BD, or OZ. These airlines are similar to A3, and all have forums of their own. I think that A3 deserves one too.

As the Miles and Bonus gain in popularity (due to the exceptionally low qualification requirements) I support a new forum. It might be the end of the nice perks if too many flyers were to use the system - but flyertalk is all about sharing, not a secret handshake society.

+1 We certainly need an A3 forum especially with the changes at BMI quite a few are going for A3 . I am currently A3 Silver and will be A3 Gold in a matter of weeks.

It would be great to have a place to discuss the many subjects about A3 and the Miles program. ^

I'm fully in favour of an A3 forum.

K.

I would support A3 forum once BMI is cold.

one more vote for the forum....^^

I support an Aegean Airlines forum. The *A Gold is quite important, but I also have flights booked with them out of FCO and CDG to ATH in conjunction with US flights from CLT and PHL. In my opinion all airlines belonging to an Alliance should have their own forum, just my five cents worth.

I would support A3 forum once BMI is cold.

bmi is indeed cold.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-11-03/lufthansa-said-to-reach-deal-to-sell-bmi-unit-in-u-k-to-british-airways.html


And a big thank you to the support from everyone else.

It would be good to have a separate forum for it.

bmi is indeed cold.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-11-03/lufthansa-said-to-reach-deal-to-sell-bmi-unit-in-u-k-to-british-airways.html


And a big thank you to the support from everyone else.


Fully support an Aegean Airlines Forum. I both fly with Aegean & now use this programme for all my Star Alliance flights. It's clearly a growing FF Programme which will be of growing interest to Flyertalk members.

I agree I think A3 should have its own forum.

+1

A3 forum would be very nice to have.

I'm fully in favour of an A3 forum.

K.

one more vote for the forum....^^

I would vote in favor of an A3 forum too...considering the number of times I write in the Star Alliance "Which FFP for me" thread. So many of those folks asking for suggestions often choose A3 due to its current qualification levels for Star Silver and Gold.

I'm in favour of an A3 forum as well, mainly because I have credited the (admittely quite small amount of) miles I've flown to them, and because if you look through the current Miles & Bonus topic in the other European FFP's board, you see a lot of the same questions returning (ie: when do miles expire, how much miles do I get for a flight on airline XY in booking class Z, etc)

Thanks PVDtoDEL. +1 on the A3 forum proposal.

Let me use a Gretzky quote ( and I hate ice hockey):
. . .“A good hockey player plays where the puck is. A great hockey player plays where the puck is going to be.”

IMO an A3 forum will be needed in the very near future more than until now. The predicted demise of DC and the fact A3 offers a low threshold and very decent EU airlines earnings will probably generate a lot of demand to harbour all the of us who fly *A.
A3 has also been expanding as an airline.

So if we open the forum ahead of demand is what will truly make the step great.

GBM

I'm also in favor of an A3 board.

As mentioned above, there is a lot of a discussion about A3 Miles and Bonus on the Star Alliance forum in the Which FF program is right for me thread. With its own forum, traffic could be directed there when discussing the pros and cons of the Miles and Bonus program. I think that thread is a good indicator of the amount of traffic a new forum would get.

as a bmi *G for 3 years, I enjoyed the easy re-qualifications and good miles...
but I need a new home and A3 seems to be the perfect place...
I learned via random posts about how to reach status with A3, but I have no clue about redemption/award costs or other basic details.
I feel that this forum would have a decent amount of US based "arbitrage-players" looking for easy *G and some local users...

there is an interest in this forum and I feel that FT should give it a home...

+1

I too believe that an A3 forum is constructive. My vote is in.

I support this idea. There's undoubtedly many A3 FFP members on FT whose experience with the programme and A3 in general (even if they may have never flown A3) could help the many people who are considering the switch. While A3 may be pretty irrelevant as an airline out there in the "real world", on FT their FFP is something which comes up multiple times a day.

I like the idea too!

After bmi's sale A3 will probably become even more attractive for many *A flyers ;)

+1 from Switzerland

roland

Fully support an A3 Forum. As a BD*G, A3 will be my new port of call to stash miles for a quick *G qualification.

+1
I'd aprreciate to have an A3 Forum. A wide range of Frequentflyerprogram-forums does enhance quality of Flyertalk!

I think this is a great idea. A3's ff program is really catching on within the star alliance community and it would be great to have a forum to discuss it in more detail.

I fully support this initiative as well - it's a great little airline with a popular FF program, which deserves its own section.

Bostonbali

I think that this would be a great addition to our forums here. I especially think this would be a good addition because of the fairly interesting process of miles redemption for star alliance flights, and also the discussion of the easy attainment of star silver and gold status.

Delta747

I have been following the A3 thread for a long time now. As others have mentioned, the thread is pretty much filled with the same questions over and over and over and over again. In my opinion this does not warrant the creation of an A3 forum.


I propose that a new THREAD is created with the top post being an A3 FAQ. It would have all of the common questions and concerns such as:
-

Time until: miles post, status is updated, card is mailed
Using A3*G and crediting to another FFP
A3*S any benefits (UA extra bags)
X Booking classes on X codeshare gets miles?
Card needed for lounge access/benefits?
Requalification
Status Matching

-
Plus many more I missed.


Then the rest of the thread can be posts about SPECIFIC issues (of which there are few of) that are not listed in the FAQ. If in the future the A3MB program grows and there are more diverse issues being discussed, then maybe then a forum should be created.

A3 forums could be quite usefull. If you take a look at the current A3 Thread its just overfilling with questions.

I wouldnt be in favor of a representative from A3 thought... or they might actually change their programme and make qualification harder because they find out about all those people from the US using it just for *G benefits :rolleyes:

but nevertheless +1

I support this motion and I urge the house to pass it.

The A3 thread currently is a big piece of mess and repeated questions are being asked and asked.

I would appreciate if more organization is in the thread.

I support this motion and I urge the house to pass it.
Hold your horse. There's yet to be a motion coming out of this proposal thread:

TalkBoard Guidelines (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/11201712-post3.html)

SECTION 4: GENERAL OPERATION, VOTING AND PUBLIC NOTICE PROCEDURES

B. Motions and Seconds

i. Any member of the TalkBoard can raise a topic regarding any issue that falls under the above stated mission of the TalkBoard either in the public TalkBoard Topics forum or in the private TalkBoard forum.
ii. A minumim of 48 hours must elapse after a topic has been raised by a TalkBoard member either in the public TalkBoard Topics forum or in the private TalkBoard forum, before any member of the TalkBoard can make a motion regarding that issue.
iii. Points of order regarding whether a proposed motion falls within the purview of the TalkBoard shall be ruled upon by the President based on these guidelines and the FlyerTalk Terms of Service with the advice of the FlyerTalk Host.
iv. Any member of the TalkBoard can second a motion.


(underline mine)

It would be great to start the A3 forums, since there a lot of users with useful and great information..

Plus 1, let's get this part (A3) started :cool::D:)

YES we want Aegean Airlines Forum.... specially for knowing their FF program

...
...
I propose that a new THREAD is created with the top post being an A3 FAQ. It would have all of the common questions and concerns such as:
...
...
Then the rest of the thread can be posts about SPECIFIC issues (of which there are few of) that are not listed in the FAQ. If in the future the A3MB program grows and there are more diverse issues being discussed, then maybe then a forum should be created.

I agree that a FAQ-thread needs to be created regardless of any motion coming out of this proposal. Are you seeing this FAQ-thread as a sticky in the OEFFP or as just another free floating thread?

We could do that without any TB or admin interference but if it is a free floating thread, it will bubble to the top as soon as someone is making a new discussion entry in the thread. As in your proposal, such entries would not be necessarily about the FAQ itself, it would be about any kind of A3 question or discussion. Then this FAQ-thread will behave differently than any other FAQ-thread on FT.
I am not saying it can't be done, I am asking how your proposal is intended to work in real life.

Sorry folks, but I am against... Look at IB, DJ (probably an airline you have never heard about unless you live in Australia/Oceania - this is Virgin Australia), LA forums - these are all new forums and there is very little activity there. Is there really a need to have one more forum? Now.. you can start bashing me:p

Sorry folks, but I am against... Look at IB, DJ (probably an airline you have never heard about unless you live in Australia/Oceania - this is Virgin Australia), LA forums - these are all new forums and there is very little activity there. Is there really a need to have one more forum? Now.. you can start bashing me:p

Won't bash you, as long as you add something to the discussion!
In what way do you mean that the LA-forum lacks of activity? I see there is several new threads each day, IMO that is a nice amount of activity.

yep totally for it

The discussions under the 'Other European Airline Programs" has usually the Aegan thread on top almost every day. People do contribute regularly, but is difficult if all is in one thread and discussions cannot be organized & structured properly like in a forum. I would welcome the opportunity to have an A3 forum dedicated for our discussions. Given that interest in A3s FFP has increased greatly over the last year and more people gather experiences should make for a lively discussion.

I'd like to have the A3 forum. So we can have sticky threads, FAQ, etc.

We should have an A3 forum, this allows for better organisation of topics such that people can read the threads they think are helpful, instead of having to go through a huge pile of information that they might not need to know at that moment.

I strongly support A3 getting it's own forum.

Thanks to PVDtoDEL for raising this proposal. I would like to register my support for this.

Although A3 is a relatively small airline, its FFP is of great value to many FTers, so I think that the interest in Miles&Bonus is much greater than of other similar airlines.

Other reasons that A3 is a bit different and so more worth of a sub-forum:
There is a flood of new members (many directed from the excellent *A FFP advice thread (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/star-alliance/1144878-need-advice-ff-scheme-join-please-post-here.html)), who come with similar questions about the programme basics.
Even when they find the information in the existing thread, Miles&Bonus has such quirky rules (and poorly explained T&C), that they ask for confirmation anyway.
As a newish member of *A, many of the Miles&Bonus members on FT are relatively new to the FFP, but are nontheless very helpful at dealing with the routine enquiries. However, more unusual questions (or even actual questions about A3 flights) can get buried in the thread and so an usual answer would depend on the few long-standing members struggling heaps of repetitive questions on status expiry.

I believe that the A3 flyers, M&B members, and new arrivals looking for easy *G would be best served by a proper sub-forum. Based on the current rate of posting on A3 and M&B, a dedicated forum would probably garner more interest than some airlines/FFP that already have been granted fora.

I support an A3 forum. I think the critical mass is there.

There are many posts in the other European forum on A3, split between the 'main thread' and individual threads and posts in the *A forum. This makes answers to questions hard to find and increases the numbers of posts asking the same questions.

An A3 forum would give those looking for answers somewhere to look and centralise discussion on the A3 programme. This would improve the FT experience of users posting in regard to A3 and improve the quality of information provided on FT about A3. This would benefit FT users.

I would also hope that an A3 board could see A3 engage with FT through an official company representative. A3 have shown that they are very good at responding to email queries and that they don't just 'cut and paste' responses. Given several email interactions with A3 I would think there is a good chance that they would engage with an A3 forum on FT.

Given the changes at BMI, interest in A3 is only going to grow.

An A3 forum would make sense and improve the overall FT experience.

I agree that a FAQ-thread needs to be created regardless of any motion coming out of this proposal. Are you seeing this FAQ-thread as a sticky in the OEFFP or as just another free floating thread?

We could do that without any TB or admin interference but if it is a free floating thread, it will bubble to the top as soon as someone is making a new discussion entry in the thread. As in your proposal, such entries would not be necessarily about the FAQ itself, it would be about any kind of A3 question or discussion. Then this FAQ-thread will behave differently than any other FAQ-thread on FT.
I am not saying it can't be done, I am asking how your proposal is intended to work in real life.


Yes, I imagine a free floating FAQ thread. Basically just the current A3 thread, but with a FAQ as the top post. Then any discussion about OTHER topics can take place in that thread. I think it would eliminate the majority of posts in the thread.

Let's look at the last couple posts in the current A3 thread and see how many would be answered by an FAQ


#625: Lounge access requirements - Yes
#624: Lounge access requirements - Yes
#623: Time until status updated/card received - Yes
#622: Time until miles post - Yes
#621: Time until miles post - Yes
#620-618 (me): MB revenue - No
#617: Lounge access requirements - Yes
#616: Lounge access requirements - Yes
#615: Lounge access requirements - Yes
#614: Lounge access requirements - Yes
#613: Lounge access requirements - Yes
#612: Lounge access requirements - Yes
#611: Individuals other FFP - No
#610: Lounge access requirements - Yes
#609: Using A3*G and crediting to another FFP - Yes
#608: Using A3*G and crediting to another FFP - Yes
#607: Using A3*G and crediting to another FFP - Yes
#606: Using A3*G and crediting to another FFP - Yes
#605: A3 status match - Yes
#604: Time until miles post - Yes
#603: A3 status match - Yes
#602: A3 status match, status retention, status length - Yes
#601: Inactivity time (keeping account active) - Yes
#600: Inactivity time (keeping account active) - Yes


That thread is FILLED with those same questions being asked again and again. It would be interesting to see how many posts are NOT one of those common questions.

This is why I believe a floating FAQ type thread would be sufficient. It would function in the same way as the current thread except all of those questions would be answered in the top post. I think the thread would have much less activity with all of those common questions/concerned already answered.

For those TB members concerned about volume, please keep in mind that in the last week +1 day, this thread has 77 posts.

Compare this with the:
Etihad Forum thread, which has 46 posts in almost 2 years,
Referral Links in Signature thread, which has 12 posts in over 6 months,
Handle Changes thread, which has 63 posts in almost 3 weeks,
Commercial Do Advertising thread, which has 45 posts in a little over 3 weeks.


When compared with these recent threads, the feedback on an A3 forum has had a lot of volume, and the vast majority of the feedback has been positive.

FAQ threads are not only unwieldy, they are uninviting to potential new FTers.

FAQ threads are not only unwieldy, they are uninviting to potential new FTers.

Agreed.

Also, they tend to destroy any conversation, since instead of discussion happening about any given topic, a generic "go read the FAQ n00b" response is given.

I've learned many things due to threads going off on a tangent. Organizing these threads would be a far more effective solution than creating a final post to send everyone to and kill any activity whatsoever.

Agreed.

Also, they tend to destroy any conversation, since instead of discussion happening about any given topic, a generic "go read the FAQ n00b" response is given.

I agree with you on that. What I envision is basically exactly what we have now except with the addition of an FAQ at the top. The FAQ would act as a filter and greatly reduce the amount of redundant posts. All other conversation would continue underneath as does (occasionally) happen now.

Im very happy to see such massive support for Aegan forum. Following my "whine" theres been massive support directly and indirectly to both this forum and to me. Thank you fellow FTers^

The future of BD with latest developments will move even more over to A3. Its an irony as noted though that a forum and a possible lurker might be a disadvantage on some points.

Just because no one else seems to have registered an opinion here lately doesn't mean they aren't reading the forum. The election starts in a few days and traditionally, this isn't a very busy time for new proposals. This proposal isn't even a week old. Feel free to keep whining if it suits you, though...

What can be read as frustration against TBers, is purely TB as a body, not indivduals. Im sure not all 9 are busy all the time? A big ^ to you for participating, no matter if I (dis-)agree. I also agree that TBers could be reading, and probably does. If TBers dont have time to participate (understandingly)- a life sign would be welcome. Just dropping by with small comments so we know we are on the radar.

Edit: Btw you later describes my whine as abuse, still you say "feel free to keep.." doing it? Doesnt make any sense at all.

I have been following this thread. However it's been less than a week since it was posted. I like to see community support and hear whar folks have to say when discussing a thread before moving forward with a motion. In the past, there have been complaints when the community wasn't given sufficient time to comment before a motion was made.

When a member pretty much just shows up here just to throw rocks or complain, you better believe I'm going to call them out on it.

As others said better, TB please participate in discussion before motioning.

I certainly have no issue at all with not motioning immediately. More discussion is obviously warranted. What I am not happy with is the fact that TalkBoard members aren't participating in this discussion.

Yes. ^ to the others TBers who chimed in. We really need to have TB feedback on what more is needed, whats unclear etc.

That's somewhat understandable.

My take is that Aegean is on the bubble. It's a *A member and it appears that *Gold is easy to reach, but most of the good information is already nicely kept in one thread. There are a number of threads in OEFFP about A3 but not an overwhelming number. I'm on the fence, leaning toward yes.

Thank you again^ I think we are on the same side:D

This proposal is far more than a week old, as you well know (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkboard-topics/1236497-new-forum-suggestion-aegean-airlines.html).

It really is sad that the President of the TB calls posters 'whiners' for asking why the TB is not doing it's job even after requiring that posters, imho, do the TB's job for them.

You know what, you just motivated me to run for the TB again. :mad:

Kokonutz you always make valid points, and I would love to vote for you@:-)

We're a volunteer, unpaid advisory board. We're not a punching bag for members to abuse when things aren't exactly as they'd like them to be, or when change/new ideas aren't implemented immediately.

This new suggestion, while revived, is indeed less than a week old. Not everyone is on FlyerTalk daily, nor do TalkBoard members have to comment right away when a suggestion is posted.

No punching bag intended. I would say that at least an acknowledgment of a proposal would be due from several TBers in a weeks time. And I dont understand the defense of "unpaid"? Thats totally irrelevant as long as you have volunteered IMHO. Its also pretty easy, if its too time-consuming, leave it for the willing- or maybe just drop one of the hats (ref Kokonutz proposal of either TB or mod).

Why yes. But the :td: pretty much said it all. I certainly didn't take the post as a "whine." It seemed to me to be a libertarian expression of ideas that was called a whine by the government of the IBB, a government which, save some very recent action, has been dearth in approval of legitimate requests for discrete fora.

I've been an active member of FT for about 12 years. I never had a clue that new proposals were seasonal. It should always be the season for new ideas. As one can see from the activity on the new LAN forum, if you build it, they will come. I don't know if I'd ever heard of Aegean Airlines but millions have, although not very North-America-centric, and every airline with a loyal following deserves the opportunity for a forum on Flyertalk.

^ (I do think we have emoticons to express our opinions as well :confused: )

I don't think anyone who has followed TB can accuse me of being shy/not posting on the TB threads since I joined TB a year ago!

I actually have been busy with 'real-life' stuff during the past week, so not really on FT that often. I do try to pop in, even with that, for a few moments, but if something isn't time critical I might not post or might push it out for a few days.

Nothing personal:D See above. I just dont buy that the body - all 9 are busy for such a period at the same time. To me thats not personal- its system error.

I very much read that post as a whine, if not outright abuse, especially considering that much of the member's input in this forum is snarky and amounts to nothing more than rock-throwing.

WOW:td:

This is way over the line. I have reviewed all my input in this forum (TB topics) with multiple posts over 20 threads, and at worst only a very few could be regarded as snarky if you left all of your flame shields. If you have further problems you are welcome to discuss by PM or over a beer@:-)

I find it very strange that you despite multiple posts supporting my view- and no one supporting yours- in a positions as yours choose to strengthen you bashing. This could very well drive me away from FT, as its posted from TB president:(

I still support A3, and Im in the beginning of a switch from BD. I hope I will be allowed to benefit and even contribute in such a forum^

FWIW - you don't have knowledge of TB members schedules, so there could be times when all TB members are busy for a week at the same time. Not saying TB members are; not saying they're not. But to say that TB members should resign because they don't post on a particular thread in a week's timeframe is a bit silly IMPO.

From the beginning of TB several years ago, some TB members post in every thread, some multiple times, some single posts, and some don't post at all. And not all threads go very far, even from FT members posting. From what I can tell & what they've stated, TB members do read all the threads & posts, both in private & public TB.

I've started a discussion thread in the private TB forum re: the A3 forum.

Cheers.

FWIW - you don't have knowledge of TB members schedules, so there could be times when all TB members are busy for a week at the same time. Not saying TB members are; not saying they're not. But to say that TB members should resign because they don't post on a particular thread in a week's timeframe is a bit silly IMPO.

From the beginning of TB several years ago, some TB members post in every thread, some multiple times, some single posts, and some don't post at all. And not all threads go very far, even from FT members posting. From what I can tell & what they've stated, TB members do read all the threads & posts, both in private & public TB.

I've started a discussion thread in the private TB forum re: the A3 forum.

Cheers.

A huge crowd give you^ for that last sentence. But lets all also keep adding value to A3 here.

Ive asked noone to resign. But the sensitiveness to criticism when in a position one wants is beyond me.

With that said I invite you to share where your opinion differs from mine, either here or by PM.

+1 to A3 forum.

+1 to an A3 forum. I think there may be a few of us that have made the most of BD Diamond Club are looking at this as an alternative... that forum has been a mine of great information, and I'd love to see something similar develop for A3 ^

I dont think there have been so massive support for a non-US forum ever on FT?

I think this forum is going to be created soon^

It is clear that enough FT'ers are interested in Aegean that it needs its own forum, especially now that BD is being taken over.

It is clear that enough FT'ers are interested in Aegean that it needs its own forum, especially now that BD is being taken over.

I think we all agree with you guys. I'm sure Talkboard & Community Director will have decide to create new A3 forum. It's will great addition to see new airline forum. They wll be always welcome.

support A3 forum!

I am a star gold at A3. and since we are earning miles in the program, if there is a way to figure out how to use the miles efficiently beside the lounge access, it is great!

I would be an active poster in a dedicated A3 forum.

I dont think there have been so massive support for a non-US forum ever on FT?

I think this forum is going to be created soon^

I hope so as well.

I haven't seen this kind of support for a new non-US forum recently either, but I haven't been paying to TB for long...

Another interesting thing about the support is it comes from people with 2 posts to people with over 2,000 posts. This shows that the forum isn't just something which newbies want, and that it won't be some kind of complicated FF discussion that Newbies won't be able to understand. It's a good balance in my opinion.

And once more, I beg all TB members to post their opinions so that I can try to address any concerns they may have before a vote occurs (if one occurs, which I am very hopeful of).

I've started a discussion thread in the private TB forum re: the A3 forum.

And I have read it. ;)

(There's your life sign. :p)

And I have read it. ;)

(There's your life sign. :p)

Now that you've read it, would you care to tell us whether you support or don't support an A3 forum and why? (doing so by PM is just fine by me). If I don't know your opinion, I can't help you see the truth of how important an A3 forum is (assuming you need this help of course).

Now that you've read it, would you care to tell us whether you support or don't support an A3 forum and why? (doing so by PM is just fine by me). If I don't know your opinion, I can't help you see the truth of how important an A3 forum is (assuming you need this help of course).

I've just returned from a week and a half of traveling and am just now catching up. I'm continuing to monitor this thread for comments by the membership of FlyerTalk.

Thank you for filling out the questionnaire, BTW. It does help to illuminate the topic a bit--one with which I am admittedly a bit unfamiliar.

I've just returned from a week and a half of traveling and am just now catching up. I'm continuing to monitor this thread for comments by the membership of FlyerTalk.

Thank you for filling out the questionnaire, BTW. It does help to illuminate the topic a bit--one with which I am admittedly a bit unfamiliar.

I'd be happy to illuminate anything regarding A3 that you didn't manage to find the answer to in the questionaire as well :). Please feel free to ask (this applies to everyone else as well ;))

From Australia, another vote in support of the proposal: +1 for establishment of an A3 forum.

My support is related to the reasons well-outlined by the OP.

I support an Aegean Airlines forum. The *A Gold is quite important, but I also have flights booked with them out of FCO and CDG to ATH in conjunction with US flights from CLT and PHL. In my opinion all airlines belonging to an Alliance should have their own forum, just my five cents worth.

+^

I'd support the forum also, in spite of them just cancelling flights I had booked due to the Greek industrial strike! (and still waiting for a refund!)

I too would like to see a A3 forum.
With the demise of BD, I think there will be a upswing of interest in A3

I too would like to see a A3 forum.
With the demise of BD, I think there will be a upswing of interest in A3
I agree.

The demise of BD should cause an upswing of interest into not only A3, but also OZ and TK (and AC as well, but to a lesser extend due to their metal requirement).

Ditto above comments - with the demise of BD I think more will be interested in an A3 Board. I also think that as more M&B members start building up miles in their accounts there will be more queries re redemptions (which seem to have some pretty strict rules) so I think it would be helpful to have those spread out in different threads. As others have said there are also a lot of FAQs that could be neatly gathered in some stickies.

I support an A3 forum as well. As other noted, the end of BD will create a gap that could be filled by A3. Many already use A3 for easy *G status and their accrual rules are better than many European/Asian *A programs.

As a very new member here I would also support a dedicated A3 forum. It was the work of a number of established commentators on the board which drew my attention to A3 in the first place and I have now made *G status without difficulty which will make my traveling experience much more pleasant. On a general note Greece is a wonderful country and A3 needs all the help they can get - it is a lovely little airline.:cool:

I too would like to see a A3 forum. ^

I think that there is already a need for an A3 forum; and I think that need will grow very substantially in the next year, so I am in favour.

A3, as already noted, is the easiest programme to achieve *G status. The earn to burn ratio is not stellar, but it is better than some *A programmes. The programme has merits in its own right.

bmi Diamond Club (which I know a thing or two about) will disappear in the next 6 months, arguably sooner. In our bmi FT community here there have three large and distinct user groups: a) UK fliers, b) those looking for status easily as their Y travels for work don't get them lounge entry; c) maximisers - those looking for the best return on their mileage ear to burn ratio. A3 is already becoming the obvious & natural home for the second bunch.

Also, those of us with large bmi balances will largely lose status in the next year as we redeem rather than pay Rev., so an easy status maintenance will be required by more than currently realise it.

Given A3's T&C were written by a room full of monkeys with typewriters (just like bmi's ;)) the programme will grow, mature, change and respond to the influx of savy *A fliers. Accordingly, a set of FAQs - like bmi's stick or the BA dashboard - would be helpful to the community in terms of keeping the information up to date and well organised.

As to the argument that no one actually flies A3; my response simply is that no one flies BD and yet it is one of the most disproportionally important forums on FT - given the miniature size of the airline. Now A3 is unlikely to emulate BD, but it does not make it less worthy. If the airline goes bust, just like the home country :D, the constituent threads can be re-placed in Other European without too much fuss - so I don't think there is too much to lose (that happened the Aer Lingus forum, IIRC).

Finally, I think the programme itself will grow and with a taste of the cash it attracts, the programme may well become more generous and will attract further members and further interest in the forums here.

Moreover, as there is no large cluster of 'A3 enthusiasts' (tipping my hat to the few there are ^) I think as a community, we should encourage a micro-community of experts the opportunity to blossom.

I would like an A3 forum. I've flown them around Greece and also see the value in gaining *G status with them.

I think that there is already a need for an A3 forum; and I think that need will grow very substantially in the next year, so I am in favour.

A3, as already noted, is the easiest programme to achieve *G status. The earn to burn ratio is not stellar, but it is better than some *A programmes. The programme has merits in its own right.

bmi Diamond Club (which I know a thing or two about) will disappear in the next 6 months, arguably sooner. In our bmi FT community here there have three large and distinct user groups: a) UK fliers, b) those looking for status easily as their Y travels for work don't get them lounge entry; c) maximisers - those looking for the best return on their mileage ear to burn ratio. A3 is already becoming the obvious & natural home for the second bunch.

Also, those of us with large bmi balances will largely lose status in the next year as we redeem rather than pay Rev., so an easy status maintenance will be required by more than currently realise it.

Given A3's T&C were written by a room full of monkeys with typewriters (just like bmi's ;)) the programme will grow, mature, change and respond to the influx of savy *A fliers. Accordingly, a set of FAQs - like bmi's stick or the BA dashboard - would be helpful to the community in terms of keeping the information up to date and well organised.

As to the argument that no one actually flies A3; my response simply is that no one flies BD and yet it is one of the most disproportionally important forums on FT - given the miniature size of the airline. Now A3 is unlikely to emulate BD, but it does not make it less worthy. If the airline goes bust, just like the home country :D, the constituent threads can be re-placed in Other European without too much fuss - so I don't think there is too much to lose (that happened the Aer Lingus forum, IIRC).

Finally, I think the programme itself will grow and with a taste of the cash it attracts, the programme may well become more generous and will attract further members and further interest in the forums here.

Moreover, as there is no large cluster of 'A3 enthusiasts' (tipping my hat to the few there are ^) I think as a community, we should encourage a micro-community of experts the opportunity to blossom.

Thank you very much for the well reasoned argument :). I do really hope that it will convince the TB members that are holding out about the proposal.

I've been asked to comment. I am in favor of this forum -- the interest appears to be there and it's a strategic program for gaining *G status.

I have already expressed my very strong support for the A3 forum.

However, I would like to dispel the notion that no one actually flies Aegean. I have, probably three RTs and ever since my wonderful travel agent first told me to use them instead of Olympic for flights to a Greek island, I have been a real fan. They are so much better than the alternatives, with well maintained and clean new aircraft, no propellers, good customer service, on time performance, and general efficiency. The lounges aren't bad either, but obviously aren't comparable to some of the Asian *A lounges or true IFC dedicated lounges.

I was told that the airline is privately held and owned primarily by a very wealthy Mid East family, but I don't know whether this actually was or is true; I once saw someone get impressive VIP treatment, with a presentation of fresh flowers at the gate and some welcomes by executives, which would make this seem plausible.

With its recent addition of many code share arrangements with other arilines, and its inclusion in the Star Alliance, I feel that it is worth its own forum.

My only minor concern would be the airline itself. Their website is out of date and not that easy to navigate. Not exactly itself looking like it is ready to be a major player. I believe, as most do, that the attraction here is its low requirements for *S and *G.

However, I would like to dispel the notion that no one actually flies Aegean.

Indeed they are a superb little airline, I've flown them too. So that makes two of us then....

Back on topic....

I wasn't entirely convinced for the need of an A3 forum yet, but I've been won over and am in favour. The program will undoubtedly receive much more attention in the next year and creating a forum now, to be ahead of the game as it were, will give it time to mature and for concise, accurate information to come to the fore in separate threads, if not a Sticky FAQ.

Even this week, they've just introduced one-way, half miles Star Alliance Awards so they're obviously looking to craft the program to be more flexible and therefore attractive to new members. As to the website usability, yes it's not all bells and whistles and a bit basic in functionality, but I'll give it one thing......I've yet to find anything on it, old or new, that doesn't work perfectly, first time.

I was told that the airline is privately held and owned primarily by a very wealthy Mid East family, but I don't know whether this actually was or is true; I once saw someone get impressive VIP treatment, with a presentation of fresh flowers at the gate and some welcomes by executives, which would make this seem plausible.

http://en.aegeanair.com/all-about-us/press-office/press-releases/press-release/?prid=36

This press release talks about the ownership of A3.

Vassilakis and Laskaridis, the 2 biggest shareholders, both sound rather Greek to me :D

I've been asked to comment on this issue, and here are some of my thoughts:

I seem to remember the proposal a bit back. Does someone have a link to that proposal?

In general, I'm a fan of creating a forum for an airline when there's a request, as rarely do people request a forum with no need whatsoever. As a fellow *A flier, I'm quite aware of the allure of A3's unbelievable *G threshold!

However, looking at the OEFFP forum, I see just 3 threads related to A3 on the first page, none on the second... Many people have questions about A3, and I see they get their action (rightfully or not) in the *A forum. Most people who want to earn *G on A3 don't actually fly them, and therefore, I don't see too much traffic related to actually A3. Many people seem more concerned with M&B, and post those questions, where they get knowledgeable answers in the *A forum.

Assuming the forum was created, would there indeed be significant enough traffic to warrant it?

(Wow...I've become so diplomatic since I entered the race!)

p.s. If I were on TB, I would seriously consider voting in favor of this. But I would want a bit more information before committing.

Regardless of whether it traditionally is a busy time for new proposals or not, FT members have elected you guys, and we expect you to participate. In fact, I'd think that since there are less proposals out there right now, you guys would have more time to deal with such proposals.

I don't think that's a fair accusation. Especially now, when dealing with the TB vote, I'm sure it can be pretty busy. Hopefully TB can (whether now or after the vote) look at this more in depth.

As someone rightly pointed out to me a long time ago, Flyertalk came into being to talk about miles. The airline product itself is secondary and the reason the forums are still named after the Frequent Flyer Programs.

Miles & More (Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss, and other partners)

I've been asked to comment on this issue, and here are some of my thoughts:

I seem to remember the proposal a bit back. Does someone have a link to that proposal?

In general, I'm a fan of creating a forum for an airline when there's a request, as rarely do people request a forum with no need whatsoever. As a fellow *A flier, I'm quite aware of the allure of A3's unbelievable *G threshold!

However, looking at the OEFFP forum, I see just 3 threads related to A3 on the first page, none on the second... Many people have questions about A3, and I see they get their action (rightfully or not) in the *A forum. Most people who want to earn *G on A3 don't actually fly them, and therefore, I don't see too much traffic related to actually A3. Many people seem more concerned with M&B, and post those questions, where they get knowledgeable answers in the *A forum.

Assuming the forum was created, would there indeed be significant enough traffic to warrant it?

(Wow...I've become so diplomatic since I entered the race!)

p.s. If I were on TB, I would seriously consider voting in favor of this. But I would want a bit more information before committing.




I don't think that number of threads is a fair metric in discussing A3 - the majority of answers end up in the OEFFP forum, but they are all on one superthread, the "Aegean Airlines Miles & Bonus" thread linked at the beginning of this thread. That thread really should be split up into many, many small threads, since the only thing related most of the posts together is the fact that they have to do with A3.

Secondly, there have been 100+ posts in favor of this forum so far. That's a lot. It's a good demonstration of the volume such a forum would have I think.

Considering that FT is a forum about Miles and Points, I don't think that A3 having traffic mainly about it's FFP is a bad thing...

I don't think that number of threads is a fair metric in discussing A3 - the majority of answers end up in the OEFFP forum, but they are all on one superthread, the "Aegean Airlines Miles & Bonus" thread linked at the beginning of this thread. That thread really should be split up into many, many small threads, since the only thing related most of the posts together is the fact that they have to do with A3.

Secondly, there have been 100+ posts in favor of this forum so far. That's a lot. It's a good demonstration of the volume such a forum would have I think.

Considering that FT is a forum about Miles and Points, I don't think that A3 having traffic mainly about it's FFP is a bad thing...

Yes and no. True, a forum about miles and points is fine, although FT has evolved to being the source of all info on an airline, but that's neither here nor there.

Having 100+ posts in favor is not an indication of the success the forum will have. I posted in favor of creating an IB forum, but I never use it.

Again, I'm more or less in favor. I'll post more, but in class now, so I must concentrate!

I'll chime in with a yes to adding an A3 forum.

No it's not because Im running for TalkBoard ;) but rather because I've read this entire thread and putting all the sniping aside, I see valid arguments both for and against and to me, it all comes down to a need and imho, I do see a need. Simple as that.

Here's a question for you*: will creating the forum assist the FT community better than leaving A3 thread scattered lose across the OE and *A forums? Will it allow a maturity and focus to develop that could not otherwise?

If you can answer yes to either question, then I think you should be voting yes.

* ok, it's two questions! ;)

As far as I see, of those running for TB posting here, all are in favour^

=no problem to wait after all:D

But on the serious side, after having had a private thread on TB, is anyone willing to motion?

A bit OT. As metrics seems to be one factor, and statistics are difficult to gather and interpret, could I suggest TBs new forum wish list to be more specific on this. Maybe having someone on TB (VP?) responsible for statistics gathering vs IB. I have seen a lot of misleading numbers previously, and this is very difficult for ordinary members to both gather and interpret.

As far as I see, of those running for TB posting here, all are in favour^

=no problem to wait after all:D

We'll see ;)

But on the serious side, after having had a private thread on TB, is anyone willing to motion?

A bit OT. As metrics seems to be one factor, and statistics are difficult to gather and interpret, could I suggest TBs new forum wish list to be more specific on this. Maybe having someone on TB (VP?) responsible for statistics gathering vs IB. I have seen a lot of misleading numbers previously, and this is very difficult for ordinary members to both gather and interpret.

Can you explain what you're referring to please?

I support this, A3 is a member of *A, the arguments for an A3 forum are all good, and I agree with them completely.


And, like goalie, I'm not saying this because I'm running for TB. ;)

Can you explain what you're referring to please?

The search function seems a bit limited. Like a cap on results.
Maybe specify and verify metrics, like posts/threads last 3 years, dominance in current forum etc.

Others who have seen the same might describe furhter.

Here's a question for you*: will creating the forum assist the FT community better than leaving A3 thread scattered lose across the OE and *A forums? Will it allow a maturity and focus to develop that could not otherwise?

If you can answer yes to either question, then I think you should be voting yes.

* ok, it's two questions! ;)

I'm in favor of creating a forum after looking at the questions answered in the first post, and also because I think that creating the forum will assist the FT community better than having most posts merged into one huge master thread, which can be very difficult to manage and search.

+1 from a college student too. What can I say, A3 has a truly diverse fan base.

But on the serious side, after having had a private thread on TB, is anyone willing to motion?



Indeed. We've been waiting since July, after all. The hoops have been jumped through. What more does the TB need?

BTW, I have flown A3 a few times. It's an excellent airline, and one that has long deserved a dedicated space on FT. ^

I am also for an A3 forum. I've flown them a couple of times and have *S with them. I will be using them for status once BD closes down. It would be great to have an A3 forum to learn as much about the nuances of their programme as I have learned about BD.

Indeed. We've been waiting since July, after all. The hoops have been jumped through. What more does the TB need?

BTW, I have flown A3 a few times. It's an excellent airline, and one that has long deserved a dedicated space on FT. ^

I would say you've been waiting since this thread started, since the one in July got derailed starting with post # 3 (which you helped derail btw koko :p).

I'll probably bring this to motion, but a few extra days of people articulating why they think it's a good idea for TB members to consider isn't going to hurt the cause. ;)

BTW - TB is always in the d*mned if it does/d*mned if it doesn't situation - ie, bring a motion too soon & folk complain there wasn't enough discussion time. Wait too long & it's there was a lot of time. Finding the medium is the key.

Cheers.

TB is always in the d*mned if it does/d*mned if it doesn't situation - ie, bring a motion too soon & folk complain there wasn't enough discussion time. Wait too long & it's there was a lot of time. Finding the medium is the key.

Posting as newbie around here, but I dont see that "too early" point being valid on new forums. Its more relevant when restricting CC access etc.

We will also have the proposal thread to add input.

I fully support a new A3 forum

The search function seems a bit limited. Like a cap on results.
Maybe specify and verify metrics, like posts/threads last 3 years, dominance in current forum etc.

Others who have seen the same might describe furhter.

A bit OT. As metrics seems to be one factor, and statistics are difficult to gather and interpret, could I suggest TBs new forum wish list to be more specific on this. Maybe having someone on TB (VP?) responsible for statistics gathering vs IB. I have seen a lot of misleading numbers previously, and this is very difficult for ordinary members to both gather and interpret.

Again, perhaps I'm just simply dense (definitely a possibility!) but I don't see the connection between forming an A3 forum and:


The crappy search feature on FT
Capping results in search (is that true?)
Which numbers were misleading, and what is the VP supposed to do?
Finally, how's all this connected to A3?

Posting as newbie around here, but I dont see that "too early" point being valid on new forums.

Shrug. You'd have to take it up w/ your fellow FTers. We've gotten hit with that, even on new forums.

But let's keep this thread about A3 ;)

Cheers.

Currrently have my name in the TalkBoard Elections..

Reviewing the feedback here on this thread indicates interest in the Aegean Airlines forum.. I would strongly encourage a resubmission for consideration to the TalkBoard..

As there is a process to determine if this interest meets new forum requirements.. if there is anyway the Aegean Airlines qualifies as a standalone Forum and I'm elected to the TalkBoard, I will support it.

Currrently have my name in the TalkBoard Elections..

Reviewing the feedback here on this thread indicates interest in the Aegean Airlines forum.. I would strongly encourage a resubmission for consideration to the TalkBoard..

As there is a process to determine if this interest meets new forum requirements.. if there is anyway the Aegean Airlines qualifies as a standalone Forum and I'm elected to the TalkBoard, I will support it.
You have told us that if you believe that the proposal fits the requirements, you will support the forum. That's great. But a more important question is: do you believe that an A3 forum would fit the requirements?

You have told us that if you believe that the proposal fits the requirements, you will support the forum. That's great. But a more important question is: do you believe that an A3 forum would fit the requirements?

I'm a newbie compared to some that are running.. I do have quite a bit of commercial experience.. as a landlord and property manager of 84 commercial tenants including 7-Eleven, Starbucks, Subway, AAA/CAA, Government of Canada, Cash Money, Flight Centre, Enterprise Rent a Car.. etc.

To be honest, I don't know the formal new forum requirements.. I would work to build a consensus within the TalkBoard, as my vote would only be 1 out of 9. To outright say black and white I will agree or disagree, would be to undermine efforts to bring the board to consensus.. That's how many Boards gets decisions done, is by building consensus.. and having an open mind.. By doing so, I need to give other TalkBoard Members formal reasons why Aegean Airlines should be approved..

You have my commitment to look into it fully, and to make every effort to present to the TalkBoard every formal reason why Aegean Airlines Forum should be approved.. Personally, I lean towards creating new Airline Forums, as this would keep FlyerTalk relevant on a go forward..

To outright say black and white I will agree or disagree, would be to undermine efforts to bring the board to consensus..

I don't know how you plan to create consensus, but the way I do it is by stating my position, explaining my reasoning so others can see why I believe what I do, and being open to compromise.

None of those require hiding my beliefs, in fact, they require that I am clear in my opinion.

If you are running on the position of "I don't know what I'm doing, I will listen to other more experienced members", I'm not really inspired...

I don't know how you plan to create consensus, but the way I do it is by stating my position, explaining my reasoning so others can see why I believe what I do, and being open to compromise.

None of those require hiding my beliefs, in fact, they require that I am clear in my opinion.

If you are running on the position of "I don't know what I'm doing, I will listen to other more experienced members", I'm not really inspired...

I've stated that I'm in favor of new airline forums in my post..

I'm certainly not running on the premise of "I don't know what I'm doing, I will listen to other more experienced members." But in all business decisions that I make, I hear the debate on both sides, collect facts, consider opinions and feedback, and cast a vote. I can't guarantee that its a yes vote, but I'm certainly leaning towards it..

You want to get things done with TalkBoard, you need to get everyone to agree to get it done.. not just me. I have experience serving on 13 boards, both profit and not-for-profit.. and happen to be on your side with this.

Answering as a puppet to get votes is not my style.. but if you want experience and representation for this new forum on FlyerTalk.. I'm in agreement and will get it done if the rules allow for it..

I've stated that I'm in favor of new airline forums in my post..

I'm certainly not running on the premise of "I don't know what I'm doing, I will listen to other more experienced members." But in all business decisions that I make, I hear the debate on both sides, collect facts, consider opinions and feedback, and cast a vote. I can't guarantee that its a yes vote, but I'm certainly leaning towards it..

You want to get things done with TalkBoard, you need to get everyone to agree to get it done.. not just me. I have experience serving on 13 boards, both profit and not-for-profit.. and on your side with this.

Answering as a puppet to get votes is not my style.. but if you want experience and representation for this new forum on FlyerTalk.. I'm in agreement and will get it done if the rules allow for it..

Fair enough.

I was hoping that you'd be able to look at the information on this forum and be able to come up with an opinion. That said, your position seems reasonable.

A3 forum all the way

I also support a separate A3 forum.

I'm a newbie compared to some that are running.. I do have quite a bit of commercial experience.. as a landlord and property manager of 84 commercial tenants including 7-Eleven, Starbucks, Subway, AAA/CAA, Government of Canada, Cash Money, Flight Centre, Enterprise Rent a Car.. etc.

To be honest, I don't know the formal new forum requirements.. I would work to build a consensus within the TalkBoard, as my vote would only be 1 out of 9. To outright say black and white I will agree or disagree, would be to undermine efforts to bring the board to consensus.. That's how many Boards gets decisions done, is by building consensus.. and having an open mind.. By doing so, I need to give other TalkBoard Members formal reasons why Aegean Airlines should be approved..

You have my commitment to look into it fully, and to make every effort to present to the TalkBoard every formal reason why Aegean Airlines Forum should be approved.. Personally, I lean towards creating new Airline Forums, as this would keep FlyerTalk relevant on a go forward..

Fair reasoning, and I would tend to agree with you. However, for someone who's a "newbie," as you say, you are quite active!

I don't know how you plan to create consensus, but the way I do it is by stating my position, explaining my reasoning so others can see why I believe what I do, and being open to compromise.

None of those require hiding my beliefs, in fact, they require that I am clear in my opinion.

If you are running on the position of "I don't know what I'm doing, I will listen to other more experienced members", I'm not really inspired...

I don't believe there's an issue of creating an A3 forum that's being debated among TB candidates. Creation of the A3 forum is not the issue dividing candidates (if such division does indeed exist). No one can run on the platform of "I don't know if I'll vote for A3." The issue is about creation of new forums in general.

Here's my two cents-

While Aegean does offer a good *A program and cheap elite status, very few people here actually fly Aegean (myself included)- so the issue would be there would be very little real "content" in terms of posts and threads. Most likely it would be the same common questions rehashed over and over again- such as how long does elite status last for, how long does it take for miles to post etc etc. So while I love Aegean's program, I'm not sure how valuable a dedicated A3 forum would be to FT.

A3 forum all the way

I also support a separate A3 forum.

Why?

Why?

TB posting style as a candidate:D

TB posting style as a candidate:D

If you say so :p

You never answered my questions!

If you say so :p

You never answered my questions!

Didnt see you ask me?

But I support A3 as its the biggest *A player without a forum, and with BD development etc, I see a large need here.

Not exactly, CA has no forum for example.

Like I said above, I see no need for a dedicated A3 forum. The current thread in OEFFP would suffice for most general queries (and maybe the first post updated with some sort of FAQ), but that's it.

Didnt see you ask me?

But I support A3 as its the biggest *A player without a forum, and with BD development etc, I see a large need here.

The biggest *A player in terms of FT traffic.

Btw, OT, I would also support a CA forum.

Didnt see you ask me?

But I support A3 as its the biggest *A player without a forum, and with BD development etc, I see a large need here.


Here's my OP: (These are the specific questions I'm asking:)

Again, perhaps I'm just simply dense (definitely a possibility!) but I don't see the connection between forming an A3 forum and:


The crappy search feature on FT
Capping results in search (is that true?)
Which numbers were misleading, and what is the VP supposed to do?
Finally, how's all this connected to A3?


The biggest *A player in terms of FT traffic.

Btw, OT, I would also support a CA forum.

CA is something I could hear.

Let's not use this type of thread for electioneering. TB candidates are easily identified so there is no reason to over-emphasize your platform positions. If you support or are against this initiative, the fact its says next to your name your are a candidate is enough. FT management has given candidates bandwidth for electioneering, please use that forum for deep opining.

Here's my OP: (These are the specific questions I'm asking:)

Again, perhaps I'm just simply dense (definitely a possibility!) but I don't see the connection between forming an A3 forum and:

The crappy search feature on FT
Capping results in search (is that true?)
Which numbers were misleading, and what is the VP supposed to do?
Finally, how's all this connected to A3?.

Not at all connected, and my comment was I believe marked OT.
I think the search function is capped at 500 results/thread or something, discussed on several other proposals- and I call misleading search engines crappy. VP was an example of a possible liason to IB to get correct raw data- something TB has been keen to ask for. Further discussion on this should probably be in a separate thread on proposal procedures.

I am satisfied with the current forum creation criteria and feel that PVDtoDEL's OP shows that an A3 forum would satisfy them. Additionally, to alleviate doubts about the long-term viability of the forum, GoldCircle makes an excellent point about possible shift from BD to A3 as Diamond Club winds down.


I don't believe there's an issue of creating an A3 forum that's being debated among TB candidates. Creation of the A3 forum is not the issue dividing candidates (if such division does indeed exist). No one can run on the platform of "I don't know if I'll vote for A3." The issue is about creation of new forums in general.

Debating the criteria of whether to create new forums might be better suited to the campaign issues, unless there's specific facts related to creating an A3 forum that are key to what changes might need to be made to those criteria.

I'm all for it.

While it would be nice to have a dedicated A3 board, the reality is, that other than the Frequent Flyer Program, what else do we really have to talk about (at this stage)?

This isnt about a major airline with major routes and over 100 aircraft, we are talking about a 30 aircraft 'Regional', flying to 34 destinations,which maintains 3 lounges (all in Greece) and has the benefits of an excellent *A FFP that can be used by anyone from any country.

As I stated above, other than the FFP, what else do we really have to talk about? The meals on a 1 hour flight? Which terminal does A3 use at LHR or FRA so that you can get the international connection in 'x' minutes?

As I stated above, other than the FFP, what else do we really have to talk about? The meals on a 1 hour flight? Which terminal does A3 use at LHR or FRA so that you can get the international connection in 'x' minutes?

The forum is to talk about the FFP ;)

Why do we need to talk about something else?

If you want an idea of how I hope the A3 forum will turn out, look at the BD forum currently.

Dont have an issue with discussing one aspect of an airline's operations, that's why I dont believe we need a complete board forit (at this stage).

When we have more to talk about, sure! I'd like to see an entire board talking about A3 and what a terrific job it does.

But BMI has both pretty cheap Star Gold and great redemptions (esp miles+cash). Aegean's redemptions are pretty sucky.

But BMI has both pretty cheap Star Gold and great redemptions (esp miles+cash). Aegean's redemptions are pretty sucky.

And now that IAG has bought BMI, looks like they're no longer going to offer *G ;)

Exactly. Personally I see no need for a dedicated A3 forum.

And now that IAG has bought BMI, looks like they're no longer going to offer *G ;)

Exactly. Personally I see no need for a dedicated A3 forum.

:confused: Doesnt this just mean the opposite? Bigger use of A3 forum^

Like I said, a hypothetical A3 forum would basically be the same "newbie" questions rehashed again and again-

What is Aegean?
Home come I didn't get 100% miles for my L fare on UA?
How long does status last for?
Why have my miles not posted yet?
etc etc

In this case, a thread on OEFFP, with perhaps a FAQ would suffice.

:confused: Doesnt this just mean the opposite? Bigger use of A3 forum^

Actually, I wasn't commenting on that. Just stating a fact. Sometimes, I can say something with no ulterior motives :p:D

Actually, I wasn't commenting on that. Just stating a fact. Sometimes, I can say something with no ulterior motives :p:D

My comment was related to Belfordrocks comment to your comment:)

Just to let folk know, I am going to do a motion on this & do have someone to second it. Will do so tomorrow, as I have 'real-life work' to do today, and I want to have my ducks in a row when I make the motion.

I would encourage those who have pro/con comments re: A3 to continue to post them. I would also encourage those who are running for election to focus their comments on A3 & not do electioneering, as the candidate questions forum is the place for that.

Cheers.

My comment was related to Belfordrocks comment to your comment:)

It's now all clear! I've been working too hard this week! Cheers though :)

I would like to reiterate for emphasis that I do fly Aegean even though they are a small regional airline. They offer a separate business class, which includes meal and drink service as well as separate buses to aircraft on remote stands. The planes look new and in good condition, clean and generally not showing signs of wear.

Besides lounge questions, folks could ask for information about bag rules and enforcement, separate biz and elite lines for check in and security, transfer procedures, including connections in ATH between Aegean and other carriers that are not necessarily Star alliance, interlining of bags and where customs formalities occur, the free Hertz rental day program for biz tickets, including how to book it and how to reserve an automatic or larger vehicle for an additional fee, etc.

During my time on FT I have suggested Aegean as part of a routing whenever someone asks about flying to Greek islands. Whenever the topic arose, I consistently and emphatically advised travel on Aegean rather than Olympic. These posts are scattered over FT, including some in the DL forum as my experience has generally involved using A3 in connection with NW or DL.

The new one way A3 award rule is great news that would otherwise lie buried in the large thread without the attention that it deserves from a new posts listing of a specific thread title announcing the FF program change.

I would like to reiterate for emphasis that I do fly Aegean even though they are a small regional airline. They offer a separate business class, which includes meal and drink service as well as separate buses to aircraft on remote stands. The planes look new and in good condition, clean and generally not showing signs of wear.

Besides lounge questions, folks could ask for information about bag rules and enforcement, separate biz and elite lines for check in and security, transfer procedures, including connections in ATH between Aegean and other carriers that are not necessarily Star alliance, interlining of bags and where customs formalities occur, the free Hertz rental day program for biz tickets, including how to book it and how to reserve an automatic or larger vehicle for an additional fee, etc.

During my time on FT I have suggested Aegean as part of a routing whenever someone asks about flying to Greek islands. Whenever the topic arose, I consistently and emphatically advised travel on Aegean rather than Olympic. These posts are scattered over FT, including some in the DL forum as my experience has generally involved using A3 in connection with NW or DL.

The new one way A3 award rule is great news that would otherwise lie buried in the large thread without the attention that it deserves from a new posts listing of a specific thread title announcing the FF program change.

You mention other things people CAN ask about. What most people have been saying is they won't be asking these questions because most people care about A3's program and not the actual airline. Although you may fly A3, the question is, does A3 really have a decent set of fliers on FT? The corollary is, if not, does it still deserve a forum.

You mention other things people CAN ask about. What most people have been saying is they won't be asking these questions because most people care about A3's program and not the actual airline. Although you may fly A3, the question is, does A3 really have a decent set of fliers on FT? The corollary is, if not, does it still deserve a forum.

As I've said earlier, regardless of whether people actually fly the airline, there are many, many FFs who use A3 as their FFP. Considering how quirky the rules are, I don't think there will ever be a shortage of questions about the program...

As I've said earlier, regardless of whether people actually fly the airline, there are many, many FFs who use A3 as their FFP. Considering how quirky the rules are, I don't think there will ever be a shortage of questions about the program...


I have to agree, FFPs present a fair amount of questions....

The issue is many of the questions would be the same. "How long does status last" has been asked numerous times, and a new forum to support these duplicate threads wouldn't really be an asset to FT.

The issue is many of the questions would be the same. "How long does status last" has been asked numerous times, and a new forum to support these duplicate threads wouldn't really be an asset to FT.

Couldn't agree more...!

Let's just have a look at the current rate of posting on the OEFFP board. Counting the long establised Aegean thread there are EIGHT (8) specific Aegean threads.

The time line...10 pages, or, since the end of April this year.

Dont know about you, but I dont really get inspired by the amount of interest generated on the forum.

A forum dedicated to a single topic? A sticky would suffice.

The issue is many of the questions would be the same. "How long does status last" has been asked numerous times, and a new forum to support these duplicate threads wouldn't really be an asset to FT.

Actually, the whole point of creating the forum is to create some semblance of organization. If these questions get answered and the information is accessible, then the discussion can move on to more interesting topics, rather that continue this painful cycle.

The same semblance or organisation can be achieved by simplying having a consolidated thread with a nice informative first post FAQ

The same semblance or organisation can be achieved by simplying having a consolidated thread with a nice informative first post FAQ

I disagree.

FAQs aren't user friendly. It's why on most forums even with an FAQ, there are tons of questions which are answered "Go read the FAQ"

It's not newbie friendly in the slightest.

And FAQs are confusing in google search results - People tend to be looking for a question that matches theirs, not an FAQ.

I disagree.

FAQs aren't user friendly. It's why on most forums even with an FAQ, there are tons of questions which are answered "Go read the FAQ"

It's not newbie friendly in the slightest.

And FAQs are confusing in google search results - People tend to be looking for a question that matches theirs, not an FAQ.

Just a point.. I noticed that some of the FAQs and synopsis of forum hasn't been updated for years..

So reading the material is like ancient text..:D

Just a point.. I noticed that some of the FAQs and synopsis of forum hasn't been updated for years..

So reading the material is like ancient text..:D

+1, that is a common issue too.

If a vote on A3 does not happen, it will be for the following reason, IMHO: Voting on a forum proposal that has insufficient support increases the hurdle for the next vote, when the forum really is needed.

I'm thinking of the Virgin America situation, in which there was a No vote then a wait of several months for a re-vote. Skipping the unsuccessful first vote would have led to a successful vote somewhat sooner.

So, if you don't see a vote, you can still be confident that the TalkBoard has carefully considered the question and is still interested in moving forward at the right time, but that there is currently insufficient support for a new forum.

On any proposal, no news over a period of several weeks means only there are not 6 votes for it yet. For A3, it has not been several weeks, so you can safely assume that the issue is under consideration.

If a vote on A3 does not happen, it will be for the following reason, IMHO: Voting on a forum proposal that has insufficient support increases the hurdle for the next vote, when the forum really is needed.

I'm thinking of the Virgin America situation, in which there was a No vote then a wait of several months for a re-vote. Skipping the unsuccessful first vote would have led to a successful vote somewhat sooner.

So, if you don't see a vote, you can still be confident that the TalkBoard has carefully considered the question and is still interested in moving forward at the right time, but that there is currently insufficient support for a new forum.

On any proposal, no news over a period of several weeks means only there are not 6 votes for it yet. For A3, it has not been several weeks, so you can safely assume that the issue is under consideration.

As Sharon said here:
Just to let folk know, I am going to do a motion on this & do have someone to second it. Will do so tomorrow, as I have 'real-life work' to do today, and I want to have my ducks in a row when I make the motion.
Cheers.

It looks like a motion and a second is already lined up to happen...

I do hope this passes the first time. As you said, if it fails, the next hurdle will be tougher. I'd hope that the TB would be willing to give a forum with such widespread support (just look at the majority of the posts on this thread).

GoldCircle managed to articulate exactly why I believe an A3 forum would be a good idea in this post.

I think that there is already a need for an A3 forum; and I think that need will grow very substantially in the next year, so I am in favour.

A3, as already noted, is the easiest programme to achieve *G status. The earn to burn ratio is not stellar, but it is better than some *A programmes. The programme has merits in its own right.

bmi Diamond Club (which I know a thing or two about) will disappear in the next 6 months, arguably sooner. In our bmi FT community here there have three large and distinct user groups: a) UK fliers, b) those looking for status easily as their Y travels for work don't get them lounge entry; c) maximisers - those looking for the best return on their mileage ear to burn ratio. A3 is already becoming the obvious & natural home for the second bunch.

Also, those of us with large bmi balances will largely lose status in the next year as we redeem rather than pay Rev., so an easy status maintenance will be required by more than currently realise it.

Given A3's T&C were written by a room full of monkeys with typewriters (just like bmi's ;)) the programme will grow, mature, change and respond to the influx of savy *A fliers. Accordingly, a set of FAQs - like bmi's stick or the BA dashboard - would be helpful to the community in terms of keeping the information up to date and well organised.

As to the argument that no one actually flies A3; my response simply is that no one flies BD and yet it is one of the most disproportionally important forums on FT - given the miniature size of the airline. Now A3 is unlikely to emulate BD, but it does not make it less worthy. If the airline goes bust, just like the home country :D, the constituent threads can be re-placed in Other European without too much fuss - so I don't think there is too much to lose (that happened the Aer Lingus forum, IIRC).

Finally, I think the programme itself will grow and with a taste of the cash it attracts, the programme may well become more generous and will attract further members and further interest in the forums here.

Moreover, as there is no large cluster of 'A3 enthusiasts' (tipping my hat to the few there are ^) I think as a community, we should encourage a micro-community of experts the opportunity to blossom.
As he pointed out, A3 is an important FFP in the grand scheme of things. It has low status thresholds, it has a decent earn/burn ratio, it has quirky rules that need explaining. Just because "nobody flies them," it doesn't mean that the forum isn't a good idea. And multiple posters on this thread have said that they've flown A3, some many times.

I do hope that TB will give A3 a chance. The support expressed on this thread makes me feel that it will be a viable forum. Worst case scenario, the forum can be deleted and everything can be moved back to OEFFP. It's not a particularly difficult thing to do. I hope that TB will have the foresight to create this forum now, instead of kicking the can repeatedly.

If a vote on A3 does not happen, it will be for the following reason, IMHO: Voting on a forum proposal that has insufficient support increases the hurdle for the next vote, when the forum really is needed.

I'm thinking of the Virgin America situation, in which there was a No vote then a wait of several months for a re-vote. Skipping the unsuccessful first vote would have led to a successful vote somewhat sooner.

So, if you don't see a vote, you can still be confident that the TalkBoard has carefully considered the question and is still interested in moving forward at the right time, but that there is currently insufficient support for a new forum.

On any proposal, no news over a period of several weeks means only there are not 6 votes for it yet. For A3, it has not been several weeks, so you can safely assume that the issue is under consideration.

If no action is taken how in the world will posters know which TB members are the impediments to creating the forum?

If no action is taken how in the world will posters know which TB members are the impediments to creating the forum?

That's a good point, koko. I guess TB members don't think of themselves as politicians doing what the voters demand. We tend to look only at what will work best for FlyerTalk. But you are right that this approach diminishes accountability to the voters.

How about this: On any issue where no vote occurs, conduct a straw poll here on TBT and ask TB members to post their preference Yes or No. You will have some abstentions, and you should feel comfortable voting against those TB members later.

That's a good point, koko. I guess TB members don't think of themselves as politicians doing what the voters demand. We tend to look only at what will work best for FlyerTalk. But you are right that this approach diminishes accountability to the voters.

How about this: On any issue where no vote occurs, conduct a straw poll here on TBT and ask TB members to post their preference Yes or No. You will have some abstentions, and you should feel comfortable voting against those TB members later.

TB members are under no obligation to post here as we know. And it seems rather backward to require the posters to badger the TB members to answer a question they may or may not answer.

And since no other TB member can post the words of another TB member from the private forum a TB member could potentially just lie about their position on an issue in the public forum.

Finally, it could be that a TB member feels comfortable being an obstacle in private, but if forced to go public with their position would support a given measure.

Right now, the only way to know for sure where a TB member truly stands on an issue is to force a vote.



But ok, following your advice just to see if it works or not, I would like the TB members to post right here right now telling us how you would vote on the creation of an A3 forum.

They'll be able to do so in the new TB voting on A3; comments welcome forum tomorrow. I'm doing a motion on this & have a seconder (who will second tonight), although they can certainly post in this thread as well.

I'm putting together the reasons why I think it makes sense now (inbetween doing real work) when I do the motion in the private forum. And I might note that a lot of that will come from posts made by FTers in this thread.

And I don't agree w/ nsx that we're only here to do what is good for Flyertalk & not doing what the voters demand. We are here to do BOTH. And when something gets a lot of support as this one has, with very little opposition, it shows that FTers think it would be good for them and FT.

We obviously have sufficient support for this forum from FTers. We have no idea about insufficient support from TB members because the vote has not started yet, and I think projection by some isn't necessarily a good thing.

BTW - I also don't agree that the hurdle will be harder the next time, just that more time will have passed. Also, in the candidate questions a # of candidates have said they're supportive of new forum creation & would tend more yes than no.

Cheers.

TB members are under no obligation to post here as we know. And it seems rather backward to require the posters to badger the TB members to answer a question they may or may not answer.

And since no other TB member can post the words of another TB member from the private forum a TB member could potentially just lie about their position on an issue in the public forum.

Finally, it could be that a TB member feels comfortable being an obstacle in private, but if forced to go public with their position would support a given measure.

Right now, the only way to know for sure where a TB member truly stands on an issue is to force a vote.

But ok, following your advice just to see if it works or not, I would like the TB members to post right here right now telling us how you would vote on the creation of an A3 forum.
You're right. The general membership should not have to badger TB members to share their opinions.

You're right. The general membership should not have to badger TB members to share their opinions.

Yeah, like anyone needs to badger me about opinions :p :D

In fairness to this year's TB members, I'd say most of the time most of the TB members have posted in threads in public TB forum.

But I return you all to the regularly scheduled discussion - which is your thoughts on A3 becoming a new forum.

Cheers.

Yeah, like anyone needs to badger me about opinions :p :D

In fairness to this year's TB members, I'd say most of the time most of the TB members have posted in threads in public TB forum.
LOL, I know... you're great at posting your opinions, but I don't think everyone takes as much time in the public TB forum to share their opinions.

TB members are under no obligation to post here as we know. And it seems rather backward to require the posters to badger the TB members to answer a question they may or may not answer.

...

But ok, following your advice just to see if it works or not, I would like the TB members to post right here right now telling us how you would vote on the creation of an A3 forum.

First, I was recommending that you do this AFTER you are elected to the TalkBoard, which I am certain will happen.

Second, I have not yet read everything about A3. The comments, rationale, and opinion just appear to be less overwhelmingly positive than they have been for other recent forum creation proposals. I'll post here when I have formed an opinion on it.

FWIW I have voted in favor of the EY forum.

I disagree.

FAQs aren't user friendly. It's why on most forums even with an FAQ, there are tons of questions which are answered "Go read the FAQ"

It's not newbie friendly in the slightest.

And FAQs are confusing in google search results - People tend to be looking for a question that matches theirs, not an FAQ.Agreed, agreed and agreed

You're right. The general membership should not have to badger TB members to share their opinions.

Agreed.

Its important to listen and provide a response..

TB members are under no obligation to post here as we know. And it seems rather backward to require the posters to badger the TB members to answer a question they may or may not answer.

And since no other TB member can post the words of another TB member from the private forum a TB member could potentially just lie about their position on an issue in the public forum.

Finally, it could be that a TB member feels comfortable being an obstacle in private, but if forced to go public with their position would support a given measure.

Right now, the only way to know for sure where a TB member truly stands on an issue is to force a vote.



But ok, following your advice just to see if it works or not, I would like the TB members to post right here right now telling us how you would vote on the creation of an A3 forum.

FWIW, I've posted in this thread earlier (and in the private forum), my opinion.

At this time, I don't believe that an A3 forum is really all that necessary. I have not decided whether I would vote for or against it at this time.

My instinct tells me to vote against it for the following reasons:

-A3 is only popular on FT because of the lax *G requirements (is that a bad thing? not necessarily)

-An A3 forum and more discussion around it may bring up more attention to the program & therefore may end up inadvertantly hurting the very FTers that use it (and I'm not one of those FTers as I do 100k/yr on UA at this point) as A3 may be forced to eventually change it's program if it finds that it's only being used and not actually generating real revenue from its program.

-A3 is a small regional airline that doesn't have a wide distribution - so regional flights generally equal limited regional discussion - hence the very few threads that are actually A3 related. Sure there is a "MegaThread" - but at the same time, there aren't all that many A3 specific threads.


My instinct tells me to vote for it for the following reasons:
-A lot of FTers seem to want it.

My assumption is that this forum will pass, but right now, I just don't see the need for it as I think the Other European Frequent Flyer Programs forum is fine for it.

I can be swayed, but that's my current opinion.

In post no9, I posed a question about the existing breadth of interest in Aegean and whether this can be accommodated better with it's current host forum. Would be grand if anyone more familiar with A3 and the OEFFP forum than I am could expand on this, if only to add some objectivity to the deliberations.

As I said earlier, A3 is increasing in popularity; there is an awful lot of offline talk about it because information is in short supply. That chat will soon move online and do so at greater speed in the months to come as more people look for both a new primary and/or secondary (it's currently mine) *A program; particularly with the upcoming death of bmi Diamond Club. It would only be wise to plan ahead for once by creating the forum now rather than do the usual thing of playing catch up afterwards. Yes, it'll be mostly about the miles and status; what's wrong with that? That is what FT is primarily about, right? There are airline forums with little of that; they are mostly product discussion with the very odd thread on the airline FFP.

Sticky and FAQ are useful tools, I use them when I know they're well maintained, but as someone who helps maintain a pretty good one, we all know that there are people, and I don't mean newbies, who still wouldn't read them or use search if you held a gun to their heads. They will continue to start new thread after new thread asking questions that have been asked and answered a thousand times.

Let's face it, it's just the creation of an airline forum we're talking about here. You'd think it was nation creation at the UN reading this thread. What's the harm in giving it a go?

Let's face it, it's just the creation of an airline forum we're talking about here. You'd think it was nation creation at the UN reading this thread. What's the harm in giving it a go?

In my world its just as simple as that^

Let's face it, it's just the creation of an airline forum we're talking about here. You'd think it was nation creation at the UN reading this thread. What's the harm in giving it a go?

Seriously.

And with the demise of bmi, you're going to see a big upswing in FT members using Aegean as their *A account, so why not be ready for it?

I just made it a motion, and am waiting for jackal to second it later. When he does, presumably we'll get the vote notice etc going tomorrow.

I also did a subsequent post on why I think it should be made a forum. I don't think bhatnasx had read my 'Great American Novel' yet when he posted ;) :p :D

I pulled from a lot of the posts here (sorry that I didn't name everyone by name). I'm allowed to quote myself from the private TB, so I'll do that in the next post. Please note it's a LONG post.

Cheers.

koko, FWIW Sharon's absolutely superb summary of the pros and cons has convinced me to support this proposal. Thanks to Sharon's work I now believe this is an easy decision for the TalkBoard.

Here's my electioneering message: vote for Sharon in the November 2012 TalkBoard election, assuming she runs for re-election when her term expires next year. She's the hardest-working member on the TalkBoard. koko, she will give you a real run for your money in that department.

This is basically what I posted, but I did pull out one small section because it quoted a post in the private TB forum, and I'm not allowed to post others' posts per TOS.

"This will be long, but I figure you all would rather read everything in one place than have to click on a bunch of links.

My reasoning for creating this forum is varied, and I’m pulling from some of the FTers posts in the public TB forum to back up my reasoning as well as my own input.

I believe there is enough interest, posting, information and support by FTers to vote to make Aegean a new forum, and that it will be an active forum.

Positive support from FTers:

In the thread under discussion in TB, 90% of FTers posting are supportive of the forum, 8% are against, & 2% are maybes. I did not count all the sniping posts, electioneering posts, or repeat posts – ie, I counted each person one time even if they posted more than once. The thread itself has gotten close to 2,900 views, and over 85 individual (again, not double-counting) posts. Those are large #s for a forum or decision that’s not controversial.

This proposed forum has gotten more input than many other items up for discussion (including Ethiad, btw). When compared with these recent threads, the feedback on an A3 forum has had a lot of volume, and the vast majority of the feedback has been positive.

Cutting to the chase:

While I won’t quote everyone by handle, here’s something that cuts to the chase by GoldCircle:

"Here's a question for you (well two questions): will creating the forum assist the FT community better than leaving A3 thread scattered lose across the OE and *A forums? Will it allow a maturity and focus to develop that could not otherwise?

If you can answer yes to either question, then I think you should be voting yes."

One FTer posted: "I wasn't entirely convinced for the need of an A3 forum yet, but I've been won over and am in favour. The program will undoubtedly receive much more attention in the next year and creating a forum now, to be ahead of the game as it were, will give it time to mature and for concise, accurate information to come to the forum in separate threads, if not a Sticky FAQ too."

Criteria for new forums:

We have asked FTers to follow our criteria when suggesting new forums for us to consider. In this case, PVDtoDEL did so. As you know, not everyone does. I think he should be commended for taking the time to answer the questions we ask to gather information to allow us to consider & make our decisions.

"Aegean Airlines (IATA:A3) is a full service airline based in Greece. It is a member of *A. What makes A3 significant to FT is the fact that A3 has the lowest qualification requirements for *S and *G in the entire alliance. This makes it a very attractive FFP for those who fly less than 50k miles per year, since *G is obviously much more useful than *S from another airline. While A3 might be a relatively irrelevant airline in real life, it is certainly an airline of great importance to the community here at FT.

Now, I will answer the questions:
1. Will the forum be (or is it now) beneficial to FlyerTalk?

It would be very beneficial for FT. A3, being the airline with the lowest qualification requirements in *A, has one of the most important FFPs in the entire alliance as far as FT is concerned. A3 has a similar importance as BD used to have - since BD will likely cease to exist in the near future, it can be argued that A3 is more important now.

2. Will the new forum benefit a relationship with FlyerTalk? E.g., does the forum provide value for FT members, such as a friendly ear highly placed in the company

No, creating a forum will not automatically gain FT a company representative, although a request could certainly be made

3. Is FT the best place to discuss this subject?

Without a doubt. I can't think of many other places where an airline like this would be considered important. But at FT, A3 is certainly an important airline.

4. Is there a passionate following? This is essential in order to provide dedicated expert helpers to get questions answered.

Certainly. Members KLouis, Egor, Nogobad and countless others who do not pop up at the top of my mind have all been very helpful in answering questions in the past, and I try to answer questions too.

5. Is a critical mass of posts and readers anticipated or existing? We need adequate traffic to keep everyone visiting frequently. One living forum is more valuable than two mostly dead ones.

Almost 600 posts on the thread I mentioned above. And there are other threads which also have posts. It is also important to keep in mind that A3 only became relevant recently, when the joined *A. Therefore, the post count is lower than it would have been if the airline had been important to FT for a while.

6. Is this the best place on FlyerTalk for this subject? This is the classification issue. The answer depends primarily on achieving and maintaining critical mass. It also depends on whether or where the discussion might (or does) occur in the absence of the forum.

Currently, A3 posts are mostly split up between the Other European FFPs forum and the *A forum. I think that creating a new forum would help centralize the information and make it more accessible to members without having to go searching through 2 different forums.

7. For proposals to split a forum, is the split expected to improve the signal to noise ratio? Why?

N/A"

To quote GoldCircle again,

"bmi Diamond Club (which I know a thing or two about) will disappear in the next 6 months, arguably sooner. In our bmi FT community here there have three large and distinct user groups: a) UK fliers, b) those looking for status easily as their Y travels for work don't get them lounge entry; c) maximisers - those looking for the best return on their mileage ear to burn ratio. A3 is already becoming the obvious & natural home for the second bunch.

Also, those of us with large bmi balances will largely lose status in the next year as we redeem rather than pay Rev., so an easy status maintenance will be required by more than currently realise it.

Given A3's T&C were written by a room full of monkeys with typewriters (just like bmi's ) the programme will grow, mature, change and respond to the influx of savy *A fliers. Accordingly, a set of FAQs - like bmi's stick or the BA dashboard - would be helpful to the community in terms of keeping the information up to date and well organised.

As to the argument that no one actually flies A3; my response simply is that no one flies BD and yet it is one of the most disproportionally important forums on FT - given the miniature size of the airline. Now A3 is unlikely to emulate BD, but it does not make it less worthy. If the airline goes bust (just like the home country) the constituent threads can be re-placed in Other European without too much fuss - so I don't think there is too much to lose (that happened the Aer Lingus forum, IIRC).

Finally, I think the programme itself will grow and with a taste of the cash it attracts, the programme may well become more generous and will attract further members and further interest in the forums here.

Moreover, as there is no large cluster of 'A3 enthusiasts' (tipping my hat to the few there are ) I think as a community, we should encourage a micro-community of experts the opportunity to blossom."

Sharon’s note: BD folk aren’t the only ones looking for a new home. When UA basically announced it was kicking its Silvers to the curb, they’re looking for a new home in terms of status, etc, as well, and there are a LOT of UA Silvers.

A FTer noted, "I don't think that number of threads is a fair metric in discussing A3 - the majority of answers end up in the OEFFP forum, but they are all on one superthread, the "Aegean Airlines Miles & Bonus" thread linked at the beginning of this thread. That thread really should be split up into many, many small threads, since the only thing related most of the posts together is the fact that they have to do with A3."

Sharon' note: I actually read all 653 posts in the current ‘Aegean Mega-Thread’. Besides the obvious questions re: qualification, there were other topics that were embedded that would be separate threads in a new forum and would make it much easier for FTers.

FTer: "Besides lounge questions, folks could ask for information about bag rules and enforcement, separate biz and elite lines for check in and security, transfer procedures, including connections in ATH between Aegean and other carriers that are not necessarily Star alliance, interlining of bags and where customs formalities occur, the free Hertz rental day program for biz tickets, including how to book it and how to reserve an automatic or larger vehicle for an additional fee, etc."

Another mentioned, “the existing thread(s) on A3 topics is not an ideal solution for finding answers to common questions, and I would greatly appreciate a separate forum for A3-specific issues”.

"An A3 forum would give those looking for answers somewhere to look and centralise discussion on the A3 programme. This would improve the FT experience of users posting in regard to A3 and improve the quality of information provided on FT about A3. would benefit FT users."

"The discussions under the 'Other European Airline Programs" has usually the Aegan thread on top almost every day. People do contribute regularly, but is difficult if all is in one thread and discussions cannot be organized & structured properly like in a forum. I would welcome the opportunity to have an A3 forum dedicated for our discussions. Given that interest in A3s FFP has increased greatly over the last year and more people gather experiences should make for a lively discussion."

"There are many posts in the other European forum on A3, split between the 'main thread' and individual threads and posts in the *A forum. This makes answers to questions hard to find and increases the numbers of posts asking the same questions."

"However, more unusual questions (or even actual questions about A3 flights) can get buried in the thread and so an usual answer would depend on the few long-standing members struggling heaps of repetitive questions on status expiry."
.
"If the mega-thread were to be broken up, I am pretty sure it would completely dominate the OEFFP forum. There simply isn't that much activity on the OEFFP forum at all, and if A3 threads were to be broken up now and in the future, it would probably need to be renamed "Aegean Airlines Miles & Bonus (and Other European Frequent Flyer Programs)", since A3 threads would be too common."

Sharon’s note: I did a search on Aegean Flyertalkwide, & in addition to OEFFP, Aegean crops up in multiple forums, some of which you wouldn’t expect. It would be easier for FTers if they could find info on Aegean, routes, upgrades, lounges, customer service, in one forum.

"As I said earlier, BD, TK, and OZ all have forums, and they are all very similar to A3 (low qualification, strong inflight experience - although BD might be an exception for the latter). Aegean have signed some codeshare agreements recently (SK, US, CO) which may make this airline and its programme more interesting to more people. I personally do think there is volume. I don't expect this to be a massive forum, but I think it would end up being a similar size as TK, BD, or OZ. These airlines are similar to A3, and all have forums of their own. I think that A3 deserves one too."

"Fully support an Aegean Airlines Forum. I both fly with Aegean & now use this programme for all my Star Alliance flights. It's clearly a growing FF Programme which will be of growing interest to Flyertalk members."

"FlyerTalk is a forum centered around Miles and Points. They are the most important thing. There's undoubtedly many A3 FFP members on FT whose experience with the programme and A3 in general (even if they may have never flown A3) could help the many people who are considering the switch. While A3 may be pretty irrelevant as an airline out there in the "real world", on FT their FFP is something which comes up multiple times a day."

Flying Aegean:

"I have flown A3, and it's a full service carrier. One of the best in the air in my opinion - service is good, seats are comfortable, food is edible (and I am very critical of Airline food, so this is a compliment), what else could you want on a regional airline?"

"I support an Aegean Airlines forum. The *A Gold is quite important, but I also have flights booked with them out of FCO and CDG to ATH in conjunction with US flights from CLT and PHL. In my opinion all airlines belonging to an Alliance should have their own forum, just my five cents worth."

"However, I would like to dispel the notion that no one actually flies Aegean. I have, probably three RTs and ever since my wonderful travel agent first told me to use them instead of Olympic for flights to a Greek island, I have been a real fan. They are so much better than the alternatives, with well maintained and clean new aircraft, no propellers, good customer service, on time performance, and general efficiency. The lounges aren't bad either, but obviously aren't comparable to some of the Asian *A lounges or true IFC dedicated lounges."

"would like to reiterate for emphasis that I do fly Aegean even though they are a small regional airline. They offer a separate business class, which includes meal and drink service as well as separate buses to aircraft on remote stands. The planes look new and in good condition, clean and generally not showing signs of wear."

Possible A3 rep on FT?

"I would also hope that an A3 board could see A3 engage with FT through an official company representative. A3 have shown that they are very good at responding to email queries and that they don't just 'cut and paste' responses. Given several email interactions with A3 I would think there is a good chance that they would engage with an A3 forum on FT."

FAQs aren't user-friendly:

"The new one way A3 award rule is great news that would otherwise lie buried in the large thread without the attention that it deserves from a new posts listing of a specific thread title announcing the FF program change. "

"Actually, the whole point of creating the forum is to create some semblance of organization. If these questions get answered and the information is accessible, then the discussion can move on to more interesting topics, rather that continue this painful cycle."

"FAQs aren't user friendly. It's why on most forums even with an FAQ, there are tons of questions which are answered "Go read the FAQ". It's not newbie friendly in the slightest. And FAQs are confusing in google search results - People tend to be looking for a question that matches theirs, not an FAQ."

"I'm in favor of creating a forum after looking at the questions answered in the first post, and also because I think that creating the forum will assist the FT community better than having most posts merged into one huge master thread, which can be very difficult to manage and search. "

Them's my reasons:

So them's my reasons for proposing this & asking that you all consider it & hopefully vote for the creation of an A3 forum. I think there are a lot more positive reasons to do so than not.

So far the only 2 arguments against are, let it stay where it's at/megathread & maybe we should wait. I think the reasons for definitely outweigh the reasons against."

Cheers.

I note that the vast, vast majority of opinions above are single posts in support the creation of an A3 forum; of those few against the motion, a small number seem to be playing an 'advocacy role', posting repeatedly to counter certain opinions. One advocate in particular has a heavy majority of his/her FT existance invested in this political push for some curious reason. If this were a simple first past the post, one-man, one-vote situation, it would be a landslide 'for'. I don't get the sense that the feeling here is luke-warm, but rather that the expressions of interest are of European flavour (say 'aye' and be counted) rather than, say, North American (advocate and make noise).

I have some moderation insights to share. The bmi board is a small board, heavily read, much more lightly posted. The posters tend to be European and the 'culture' of the board is European; the silent readers tend to be American. I would expect that an A3 forum would have a similar profile, as A3 airline users will be, in the majority, European, the bmi crowd will be European for the better part, especially those non-LHR refugees from London Airways Avios programme; though the cheap-status crowd will have a good north-American mix also. So, comparisons or assumptions based on a 'monster-airline' view of worthiness will not necessarily capture the value in this proposal.

The size of the FFP is irellevant; it's what you do with it, dontchaknow? ;)

As to the arguments surrounding 'the are only 5 questions that get asked and an FAQ is the way forward' - this is true of most 'small & friendly' boards. Such questions get lost in the monster forums (eg. United, Hilton etc. etc.) and get abusive responses (do a f^€€* search!!!) and more often than not get instantly shunted to a master thread and buried to keep the board in administrative order (I don't like this, but do readily understand the necessity and rationale). In smaller forums, with a balanced culture of welcome and assistance, such questions are asked and answered, allowed to sit for a few days and then consolidated to the master thread on that particular question.

It's worth stating again, that A3's programme is growing rapidly, both in numbers and in sophistication. They are very clearly following BD's growth and explosion model from 2006. This will bring many changes to the programme and it will be a job in itself to keep up with it (mega-threads will be toxic in this scenario).

With good moderation and member participation, a master FAQ will list the 'most over asked questions', there will be consolidated threads for those questions. There will be how-to's and detailed insight on maximising the experience. There will be off-topic banter and community participation. The community will grow the board. In OEFFP, it is not so much a community as a drop-in centre for lost airlines. My sense is that A3 will garner sufficient interest to merit a dedicated real-estate on FT.

I have a sense from some comments above, that a few view the creation of an A3 forum as 'not big, so not beautiful'; the huge majority of FT forums follow the 'small and dedicated participants model' rather than the 'monster forum' model. FT is great because it is a resource that covers most every possible area (geographic areas, tech, photos, small airlines, community etc.), not because of the content of the 'monster forums' - that is only backbone of FT, not its making.

And as said many times now, we have the bandwidth, why not the bravery to allow this flower to bloom?

And bhatnasx, its no one's job here to protect the A3 programme. They will earn, mature and adapt, just as every other FFP does - and their rule about using benefits while crediting elsewhere, suggests they already know what's ahead, doesn't it? It's almost as though an A3 team had visited a stately home in the North of England on a fact-finding mission. ;)

Great job skiadcock^

The great job is not by me, but by FTers who took the time to provide their input, whether it be +1 or more detailed.

Cheers.

The great job is not by me, but by FTers who took the time to provide their input, whether it be +1 or more detailed.

Cheers.

Great job by many for sure, but that compilation and your job was impressive^ Its a long step from thought to action.

But ok, following your advice just to see if it works or not, I would like the TB members to post right here right now telling us how you would vote on the creation of an A3 forum.

No need. I've gone ahead and seconded the motion.

I greatly respect the team-player atmosphere that later TalkBoards have had (largely due to the efforts of nsx), but ultimately, I agree with you (koko) that there comes a time when the stances held by members of the TalkBoard do need to be put in front of the general public.

I agreed to second the motion before I had decided how to vote--for this very reason.

My personal preference is actually a hybrid model. For simple votes such as forum creation, where it's pretty much either a yes or no whether we create a forum or not, I prefer to allow time for reasonable discussion and then call for a vote, even if it is not likely to pass.

Where I see the consensus model working well is when an issue is more complicated and there can be some negotiation and give-and-take on some of the specific components of the proposal. In these cases, it can be more productive to finesse the proposal to the point where it is likely to be supported by a supermajority of voting TalkBoard members and then passed, as opposed to trying to pass a succession of motions that ultimately fail (and that take two weeks each to run their course). Ultimately, though, when the negotiations have reached a point where a decision needs to be made, I believe that decision needs to be made in public.

This is basically what I posted, but I did pull out one small section because it quoted a post in the private TB forum, and I'm not allowed to post others' posts per TOS.

She was quoting me. And I'm allowed to post what I wrote, so I'll fill in what she omitted:

And to quote jackal:

"While not 100% convinced, I usually err (when in doubt) in support of forums core to the mission of FT, and removing this discussion from OEFFP won't really detract from that forum's usefulness, so I would lean yes right now."

and jackal again: "If the FT membership wants it and there's no real opposition (I haven't seen anyone post against it yet), who are we to stand in their way? We do represent the membership, after all... "

Now, I wrote that several days ago and certainly before Sharon's excellent summary of the research she did. I'm still slightly skeptical that A3 is large enough that discussion will be able to be self-sustaining in its own forum, but the strong show of support here, Sharon's research, and my feeling that it won't be too strong of a blow to the OEFFP forum leads me to be willing to give this a shot.

I'll be voting yes (as I did with the EY proposal, too).

Here's my electioneering message: vote for Sharon in the November 2012 TalkBoard election, assuming she runs for re-election when her term expires next year. She's the hardest-working member on the TalkBoard.

Wholeheartedly seconded!

While many have explained why A3 deserves its own forum, many others have simply posted "why not." Can members of the current TB explain why an airline, that doesn't really deserve its own forum, shouldn't get one? Is it simply because there will be little traffic, so less ads = less money?

My personal preference is actually a hybrid model.

Yes, but even the hybrid model needs a gas engine for when the electricity dies and you need to get things moving :p

Here is some food for thought for undecided TB members, from me. Chew on it if you will, or spit it out, or don't even chew.

I had never heard of Aegean Airlines until I read about this very proposal. I had no idea that there was a mileage program that had some very redeeming qualities, some which may be of interest to me. Maybe they won't. But I definitely want to learn more. Had I noticed an Aegean Airlines forum during an occasional peruse of the entire range of fora (when I drift away from My FT), I'd have opened it up out of curiosity. "What is this airline I've never heard of?" "Oh, look at that post with hundreds of comments." I never go to the "other" fora unless I have a specific need.

I suppose my thoughts on setting favo(u)rite channels on the remote is similar - I don't do it - I'd rather scroll through channels and accidentally stumble upon something interesting and maybe learn something new, than just rely on the tried and true. I'm the same way with airline IFE - I rarely bring my own on flights that have extensive systems - watch something new (to me), listen to something new, stumble across something I never would have if I kept to the familiar. I can listen to the "same old song" at the gym, or on a flight with no/limited IFE.

How does someone become interested in something new if it is buried in something old (i.e., an Other forum)?

While many have explained why A3 deserves its own forum, many others have simply posted "why not." Can members of the current TB explain why an airline, that doesn't really deserve its own forum, shouldn't get one? Is it simply because there will be little traffic, so less ads = less money?

Absolutely nothing to do with ads or money. Internet Brands has been absolutely hands-off with the TalkBoard. Our concern has nothing to do with finances, and we're purely here to serve the FlyerTalk community.

The main concern with creating a new forum stems from four questions:

1. Is there a current home that is adequately serving discussion on this topic?
2. Would the discussion be better served by having its own dedicated home?
3. Is the amount of discussion significant enough to be able to stand on its own? In other words, one active forum with enough participants to stimulate discussion is better than two dead forums no one looks at.
4. Would moving the discussion do more harm than good? (Pulling discussion out of one forum and moving it to another might cause the original forum to die, which might be worse.)

If the answers to these questions can't be satisfied, then perhaps creating the forum isn't in the FlyerTalk community's best interest.

Absolutely nothing to do with ads or money. Internet Brands has been absolutely hands-off with the TalkBoard. Our concern has nothing to do with finances, and we're purely here to serve the FlyerTalk community.

The main concern with creating a new forum stems from four questions:

1. Is there a current home that is adequately serving discussion on this topic?
2. Would the discussion be better served by having its own dedicated home?

Wouldn't this always be the case? I fail to see how the OEFFP forum would be BETTER for A3 than it's own forum

3. Is the amount of discussion significant enough to be able to stand on its own? In other words, one active forum with enough participants to stimulate discussion is better than two dead forums no one looks at.

Why? What's wrong with a deadish forum, that gets only occasional posting? An airline will not get any less action in its own dedicated forum than in an "Other" forum.

4. Would moving the discussion do more harm than good? (Pulling discussion out of one forum and moving it to another might cause the original forum to die, which might be worse.)

How so?

If the answers to these questions can't be satisfied, then perhaps creating the forum isn't in the FlyerTalk community's best interest.

I replied to your questions in RED

simple answer to why there only is one megathread in the oeffp and not a few other threads aswell: Most people who are new to flyertalk will check for an existing thread for the specific airline they are looking for instead of creating a new one. When they see that huge A3 thread in the oeffp they will just get in to the discussion there. Of course it would be possible to split this megathread into different threads in order to lighten up discussions on different questions, but since they would then get lost in the oeffp forums its easier for people to just spam in the current A3 megathread.

Think about a structured forum for A3 with a permanent FAQ for newbies aswell as a lounge for newbies to ask questions in. Other activity will be delivered by lets say flight experience (even if most of the people interested in A3 might never fly them) or offers / programme details / changes.

following scenario: A3 changes their FFP by just a tad bit - increase/decrease mileage accrual for different booking classes for example - someone will notice this and post it in the current megathread: It will be lost in a day or two because of new posts. In a dedicated A3 forum though, it will be there and people will notice it.


hope this supports my earlier posted +1 by a bit : )

While many have explained why A3 deserves its own forum, many others have simply posted "why not." Can members of the current TB explain why an airline, that doesn't really deserve its own forum, shouldn't get one? Is it simply because there will be little traffic, so less ads = less money?

There are ads on FT? :eek: :eek:

I never knew...

Wouldn't this always be the case? I fail to see how the OEFFP forum would be BETTER for A3 than it's own forum

Why? What's wrong with a deadish forum, that gets only occasional posting? An airline will not get any less action in its own dedicated forum than in an "Other" forum.


How so?

Not necessarily. Moving content from a very active forum to a very dead one might actually decrease the exposure of that content.

If it's not a well-known subject that people would be actively looking for and it gets sequestered away in its own forum, people who don't know about it might never see it.

If it's in a visible place frequented by a ton of other people, more people are likely to come across the information and learn about and respond to it.

Absolutely nothing to do with ads or money. Internet Brands has been absolutely hands-off with the TalkBoard. Our concern has nothing to do with finances, and we're purely here to serve the FlyerTalk community.

Correct, and Internet Brands has impressed me with this policy. If Internet Brands ever decides to apply pressure to the TalkBoard, they might as well just abolish it, because we'd probably all resign.

Not necessarily. Moving content from a very active forum to a very dead one might actually decrease the exposure of that content.

If it's not a well-known subject that people would be actively looking for and it gets sequestered away in its own forum, people who don't know about it might never see it.

If it's in a visible place frequented by a ton of other people, more people are likely to come across the information and learn about and respond to it.

I don't think this should be an issue in this case. But if you guys really think it is, won't a simple note on the *A and OEFFP forums announcing the new A3 forum solve the issue?

I don't think this should be an issue in this case. But if you guys really think it is, won't a simple note on the *A and OEFFP forums announcing the new A3 forum solve the issue?

When a new forum is created, I believe it's SOP to have a global announcement of the new forum posted for a while...

Count me as another vote in favor of an Aegean forum. I support it not only because the airline's FF program has become important to our community (it certainly has), but also because I fly the airline at least a couple times a year. As my girlfriend is a huge fan of Santorini, we fly A3 each year from some point in Europe to get there. Excellent airline and a very useful program for some.

I would caution against soliciting a company representative. I could see that as a recipe for program devaluation disaster in this circumstance.

I would caution against soliciting a company representative. I could see that as a recipe for program devaluation disaster in this circumstance.
Not sure whether I agree with you or not - having a company representative could be a recipe for program devaluation disaster, or it could cause the company to better understand FF concerns and try to do something about them....

It's a huge risk, and not one which I'm sure is a good idea to take...

Even though i don't hold status with Aegean, i fly them frequently on the way home as the last leg of my transatlantic flights (usually from FRA).

As a Greek, i would love to check the forum frequently and make a couple of calls to help fellow FTs if they have specific questions!! :)

This airline is expanding, and the special low *G threshhold warrants more attention.

In post no9, I posed a question about the existing breadth of interest in Aegean and whether this can be accommodated better with it's current host forum. Would be grand if anyone more familiar with A3 and the OEFFP forum than I am could expand on this, if only to add some objectivity to the deliberations.


I agree that this line of though have not been enough investigated, and I will try to add my thoughts on the subject.

I believe that I did the typical A3M&B-route; I usually read other threads and actually only found A3-mega-thread by an external google search looking for a *A-programme. The route I took, that many other will take too is first reading the mega-thread, then asking some (silly) questions, then adding miles to M&B account, then gaining gold, then starting to answer other peoples questions.

I have also in retrospect (with my recently acquired knowledge of M&B) read the mega-thread again with the purpose of compiling a FAQ. This reading have made it very clear to me that a compilation of knowledge is the number one need. Without it A3-discussions will only go downhill.

I have noticed that this proposal thread mostly talks against FAQ's. I am pro-FAQ and pro-Forum for A3 M&B, and in that order. Weather or not we get the forum, I want to see the FAQ, preferably sticky. Without a dedicated A3-forum the FAQ will not have a natural home to be sticky in, but I still think it is a crucial thing to help keeping A3 discussions evolve to something greater.

At this point, I believe that many A3-knowledgeable FT'ers are growing tired of the "newbie-ask-any-question-here-flame-free"-style that the A3 mega thread have right now. A few are fighting the battle with good mood, but I for one feel tired of it. I think I can see this in other peoples responses too. I can only imagine the situation when BD's FFs jump ship.

I think it is common sense to read a FAQ first and ask later. It also think it is possible to answer newbie questions in a friendly way and still make use of the FAQ.
FAQs not only contain the answer to the question I had, it also contains the answer to questions I didn't know I had. Therefore they are much more valuable than some might think.

In my limited FT experience I can only compare the A3 mega thread to my "normal home", the AY+ forum. This is a forum for a mature airline with international traffic on NA, Europe and Asia, based at the "perfect" hub for Europeean-Asian connections.
Since this forum is more mature the discussions are more diverse than in A3, but the number of posts are substantially fewer, the newbie visitors are fewer and the seasoned fliers are present in greater number. Hence, this forum and alikes, can do very well without FAQ's. This is in bright contrast to the A3-thread, that lives a completely different life. This contrast too strengthens my position of pro-FAQ.



Could such a FAQ live in the OEFFP as a non-sticky?
it would be a better solution than todays mega-thread. I am not sure it will break the bad habit of answering questions one by one in the thread below the FAQ.


Would it make a difference if it was a sticky in the OEFFP?
Actually no, the mega-thread pretty much behaves like a sticky already, as there are new posts almost every day.


In my mind, the most important thing to better the A3M&B situation at this point is to establish some kind of FAQ. This can be done in OEFFP, but it would be slightly better in it's own forum. As I said I am pro-forum, but it is IMO not the make-or-brake-decision.

Taking into account signs of the future, then the forum solution looks like the given. I don't have the experience to say if this is the right time to go forum or not.

<snip>

FAQ threads are always great. The biggest issue is finding someone with the patience, knowledge, ability, time... to compile one. If you do that, kudos! I think that's great!

All forums should have one, and all airlines, even ones without a dedicated forum, should have one.

Thanks Sharon for taking the time to compile that post.

Having considered all perspectives, I think I'd now probably be in favour of an A3 forum. We just need to be careful not to ignite a potential devaluation.

I agree that this line of though have not been enough investigated, and I will try to add my thoughts on the subject.

I believe that I did the typical A3M&B-route; I usually read other threads and actually only found A3-mega-thread by an external google search looking for a *A-programme. The route I took, that many other will take too is first reading the mega-thread, then asking some (silly) questions, then adding miles to M&B account, then gaining gold, then starting to answer other peoples questions.

I have also in retrospect (with my recently acquired knowledge of M&B) read the mega-thread again with the purpose of compiling a FAQ. This reading have made it very clear to me that a compilation of knowledge is the number one need. Without it A3-discussions will only go downhill.

I have noticed that this proposal thread mostly talks against FAQ's. I am pro-FAQ and pro-Forum for A3 M&B, and in that order. Weather or not we get the forum, I want to see the FAQ, preferably sticky. Without a dedicated A3-forum the FAQ will not have a natural home to be sticky in, but I still think it is a crucial thing to help keeping A3 discussions evolve to something greater.

At this point, I believe that many A3-knowledgeable FT'ers are growing tired of the "newbie-ask-any-question-here-flame-free"-style that the A3 mega thread have right now. A few are fighting the battle with good mood, but I for one feel tired of it. I think I can see this in other peoples responses too. I can only imagine the situation when BD's FFs jump ship.

I think it is common sense to read a FAQ first and ask later. It also think it is possible to answer newbie questions in a friendly way and still make use of the FAQ.
FAQs not only contain the answer to the question I had, it also contains the answer to questions I didn't know I had. Therefore they are much more valuable than some might think.

In my limited FT experience I can only compare the A3 mega thread to my "normal home", the AY+ forum. This is a forum for a mature airline with international traffic on NA, Europe and Asia, based at the "perfect" hub for Europeean-Asian connections.
Since this forum is more mature the discussions are more diverse than in A3, but the number of posts are substantially fewer, the newbie visitors are fewer and the seasoned fliers are present in greater number. Hence, this forum and alikes, can do very well without FAQ's. This is in bright contrast to the A3-thread, that lives a completely different life. This contrast too strengthens my position of pro-FAQ.



Could such a FAQ live in the OEFFP as a non-sticky?
it would be a better solution than todays mega-thread. I am not sure it will break the bad habit of answering questions one by one in the thread below the FAQ.


Would it make a difference if it was a sticky in the OEFFP?
Actually no, the mega-thread pretty much behaves like a sticky already, as there are new posts almost every day.


In my mind, the most important thing to better the A3M&B situation at this point is to establish some kind of FAQ. This can be done in OEFFP, but it would be slightly better in it's own forum. As I said I am pro-forum, but it is IMO not the make-or-brake-decision.

Taking into account signs of the future, then the forum solution looks like the given. I don't have the experience to say if this is the right time to go forum or not.

I'd like to respectfuly disagree.

If (hopefully when) A3 gets its own forum, each question will be split up into a new thread. I feel that having a thread for each question is a better way than compiling an FAQ...

That said, I'm glad we both agree on the need of a forum...

I'd like to respectfuly disagree.

If (hopefully when) A3 gets its own forum, each question will be split up into a new thread. I feel that having a thread for each question is a better way than compiling an FAQ...

That said, I'm glad we both agree on the need of a forum...

Why exactly would an FAQ be bad? I find it so much more helpful in, say, the CO forum. Or the NYC forum (though granted, that's more of a fantastic sticky). But AA, BA...

I'm supporting it - even though I don't need to make A3 *G anymore thanks to LH's generosity of handing out SENhood ;)

I believe that a lot of people will defect to Aegean once Diamond Club is finished, and the number of threads and posts will probably go up considerably. So, yes, I believe there will very soon be a need for an Aegean forum.

simple answer to why there only is one megathread in the oeffp and not a few other threads aswell: Most people who are new to flyertalk will check for an existing thread for the specific airline they are looking for instead of creating a new one. When they see that huge A3 thread in the oeffp they will just get in to the discussion there. Of course it would be possible to split this megathread into different threads in order to lighten up discussions on different questions, but since they would then get lost in the oeffp forums its easier for people to just spam in the current A3 megathread.

Think about a structured forum for A3 with a permanent FAQ for newbies aswell as a lounge for newbies to ask questions in. Other activity will be delivered by lets say flight experience (even if most of the people interested in A3 might never fly them) or offers / programme details / changes.

following scenario: A3 changes their FFP by just a tad bit - increase/decrease mileage accrual for different booking classes for example - someone will notice this and post it in the current megathread: It will be lost in a day or two because of new posts. In a dedicated A3 forum though, it will be there and people will notice it.


hope this supports my earlier posted +1 by a bit : )

Thank you. It does.

Cheers.

Great job skiadcock^"Seconded" ;)

The great job is not by me, but by FTers who took the time to provide their input, whether it be +1 or more detailed.

Cheers.While true, you still took the time to compile and post which many others would simply not do so as they say...."good on you" ^

Yes please +1

I have had significant questions about A3 following UA/CO deciding to gut 1& 2P status. If upgrades are impossible and e+ unlikely many of us can start shopping for new programs. For that reason alone A3 should do very well as a new forum.

Cmon! This is long overdue. This is an easy decision.

+1 for an Aegean Forum

Yayegean! +1

I enjoyed my experience on my Aegean flights, yes I actually flew them. The *G scheme is also appealing. I would frequent the forum, I have tried reading "the thread" but found it too cumbersome.

I am pro forum as well, having flown A3 a few times in recent months.

Given the likely defection of UA 2Ps to A3 Miles&Bonus for *G status in 2012, I think a dedicated forum would be a good idea (especially since Miles&Bonus T&Cs are so murky).

+1 for an Aegean forum!

Funny.. expired FFPs get their own forum.. what's the logic to that?

YES to a separate A3 forum! ^

Funny.. expired FFPs get their own forum.. what's the logic to that?

:confused:

:confused:

+1


expired FFP?!

expired FFP?!

I think Ancien Maestro was making the valid point that there are individual existing forums for expired FFPs, so why not one for a functioning FFP.

I think Ancien Maestro was making the valid point that there are individual existing forums for expired FFPs, so why not one for a functioning FFP.
Yep, that's what I thought too...

And it is a fair point...

Yes please.

I think Ancien Maestro was making the valid point that there are individual existing forums for expired FFPs, so why not one for a functioning FFP.

Yep, that's what I thought too...

And it is a fair point...

Such as?

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/discontinued-programs-partners-395/

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/discontinued-programs-partners-395/

Ah, I thought OP meant there are discontinued FFPs that still have active forums. And yes, this forum should disappear completely, unless it's only saved for archive/nostalgia purposes.

Such as?



Let's look at US/HP, a good 5 years ago or so, there is still an HP forum. When was e last post? 5 years ago. I doubt anyone has even looked at it in years. But yet it still remains. If an airline that doesn't exist, and hasn't for over 5 years, has a forum, why can't A3? @:-)

Company rep - NO!

Let's look at US/HP, a good 5 years ago or so, there is still an HP forum. When was e last post? 5 years ago. I doubt anyone has even looked at it in years. But yet it still remains. If an airline that doesn't exist, and hasn't for over 5 years, has a forum, why can't A3? @:-)

You'll find the forum in the Discontinued Programs/Partners section:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/america-west-flightfund-pre-2005-us-airways-merger-444/

It's kept for historical purposes along with forums for Ansett, TWA, and many more. It is not open for posting.

Company rep - NO!

yes, that would be catastrophic :D

Definitely.

:confused:

+1


expired FFP?!

FFP - Frequent Flyer Programs..

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/miles-points-1/

Scroll down to the bottom of the screen to Discontinued Programs/Partners.. Theres 19 forums

Definitely!

I would support the creation of a separate A3 forum. I am actively crediting flights to the program on my current trip.

I decided to vote yes for this forum...I still am not 100% sure that this forum is necessary given the limited distribution of Aegean and my guess that this forum, in the long run, could hurt the program (not that it should matter) as it gains popularity and that this forum will only be as popular (and populated) as long as it's got low *G thresholds that allow folks to take advantage of *G benefits without actually meeting the requirements of the majority of *G programs.

But there's a strong group of people who want to see it done, so I'm willing to vote for it as there have been very minimal arguments against it.

My guess is that if the *G requirements are updated in the future, the forum, if created, will become a underutilized forum and I do hope whoever is serving on TalkBoard then will have the foresight to remerge it back with the Other FFP forum it belongs in.