Singapore - 24 hours in Singapore

Dear Mods - I would be very grateful if you could please give this the customary run here before moving it elsewhere!

My employer kindly offered me business class tickets to anywhere in the world for a weekend away. :)

So I decided to go to Singapore because I have not been before.

I will be arriving at 8pm on this Friday evening and leaving at 9.30pm on Saturday evening and will be staying somewhere in or near city but not sure exactly where yet.

The way I see it I have a night and an afternoon to do some sightseeing.

So what should I do?

I am keeping an open mind apart from one thing. I absolutely have to eat crispy belly pork and/or pork ribs.

Advice welcome! :D

Change your mind. A dull, antiseptic dictatorship.


Good food though.

Change your mind. A dull, antiseptic dictatorship.

Good food though.

Agree - I'd rather go to Hong Kong or Tokyo. And frankly the food is as good - if different - in Tokyo though there is less pork.

However if you have to visit the Basingstoke of SE Asia, the following are OK for a visit

* Night zoo
* Lau Pa Sat hawker centre
* Wander round Chinatown and Little India
* A couple of the museums I can't remember the names of but will update shortly

HKG over SIN any day of the week!

I find SIN particularly soulless and uninteresting. However, I am sure this thread will start the HKG/SIN debate once again ;)

The National Musuem
The Musuem in the Raffles Hotel (3rd floor)
Bukit Chandu Museum

So what should I do?
I would plan to visit the Orchid Garden, do some window shopping on Orchard Road, spend a little time on the river, maybe do a boat tour. Have a beer at Boat Quay, or Clarke Quay, go to the Battle Box in Fort Canning, and eat, eat, eat!!

I saw a show just last night about Laksa that looked just GREAT at 51 East Coast Rd. Not a difficult cab ride from the center.
Have fun!
Dave

I have only stopped there on way to/from Oz.
It's nice and clean and fine for a stopover, but not a lot to see IMO. A Singapore Sling in the Long Bar at the Raffles Hotel!!
Go somewhere else :D

I had 36 hours in Singapore en route to Oz over Xmas/New year.
Agreed it's not as buzzy and interesting as Bangkok or HK but still enough to do. The zoo is good, there's a cable car ride over to Sentosa Island, Raffles (for way overpiced pre mixed slings), take the lift to the top of the Marina Bay Sands hotel for the view (or even better stay there so you can use the infinity pool).
We took the open top buz around and jumped on and off at will. Might be a good option in s hort amount of time. Food we found was fine, just get off the main tourist drag.
Enjoy

However, I am sure this thread will start the HKG/SIN debate once again ;)

No this thread will start the debate about how he is getting there. If he is flying on BA from LHR then he shoudl really wait until after the 16th Nov, as the EC Tier Points increase from then. :D

I agree as well. Singapore is exceptionally sterile and causes the anarchist in one to scream "I just want to make something slightly untidy!"

However, I reckon 24-hours in Singapore is about perfect. You'll have done it and can say you have done it. That sounds like sarcasm, but it isn't. I think you've made the right choice.

It's been years since I last went there (for 48 hours! :)) but I remember visiting some equivalent of Science Museum, and a bird sanctuary. The latter was quite good.

Otherwise my usual practice is to arrive in a city, point in a direction and walk (remembering not to cross the road until you have a green light, or you'll be fined!).

No this thread will start the debate about how he is getting there. If he is flying on BA from LHR then he shoudl really wait until after the 16th Nov, as the EC Tier Points increase from then. :D

Thank you!

It's an ultra-long haul too, so even more points (an extra 40 each way over current levels in J?). It does seem a waste to be going before the 16th.

Bangkok is nicer than Singapore. I'd advise having a drink, and maybe a swim, at the Marina Bay Sands Hotel.

And it must be said that you have very kind employers!! :D

Change your mind. A dull, antiseptic dictatorship.


Good food though.

i agree go to HK/BKK instead

Firstly, how do I get a job with your employer? :D

It wouldn't be my first choice of place to visit, although it was a handy stop-off on a round-the-world trip. To answer your question, it depends what is your sort of thing (apart from pork eating!). My wife and I, before the kids, had a great time wandering around the botanical gardens (http://www.sbg.org.sg/), which had an outstanding orchid display - it enjoyed wandering around, but I appreciate it isn't everyone's cup of tea.

Talking of tea, we had a fabulous afternoon tea at the Chihuly Lounge (http://www.ritzcarlton.com/en/Properties/Singapore/Dining/ChihulyLounge/Default.htm)at the THE RITZ-CARLTON, MILLENIA SINGAPORE - we both love afternoon tea, and really like this glass artist's work, so it was a great afternoon.

Enjoy the trip.

Sure it's sterile, but you don't have to set up home there! I really like Singapore. Another vote from me for the botanic and orchid gardens. Sentosa is great if you turn off your kitch chip, especially the foutain show! A sling in Raffles is not worth it IMHO (About the only positive is that you have done 'it', but unfortunately 'it' is disappointing). Boat quay has a nice feel for something to eat in the evening, a food hall at lunch time is an absolute must (any likely looking hall you come across). Orchard road is OK if you really feel the need for retail therapy, but the prices are not that great these days and the range is generally(with some exceptions) very international. And remember you are very, very safe so walk, walk walk and get a feel for the real place.

Just don't spit your gum ;)

Raffles
Singapore Flyer and from here you can take the Duck Tour
Whilst at Singapore Flyer you can walk on the starting grid for the Grand Prix.
You also have the hotel with the ship parked on top of it and the casino within this complex

For me 48 hours was to much in this city so 24 should be just fine to see it all.

1. Stay at Marina Bay Sands and check out Infinity Pool.
2. Have a drink at Clarke Quay at The Clinic.
3. Take a ride on the Singapore Flyer (at night).
4. Drinks at Altitude Club or Swissotel Helipad.
5. Walk down Orchard Road but leave your wallet at home so you don't spend your life savings.
6. Eat at food stalls and be adventurous. Avoid Kopitiam, that doesn't count as a food stall. Get some chicken or duck rice. Yum!
7. Wicked is playing at Marina Bay Sands -- see it if you haven't already.
8. Stay away from Geylang and the KTVs.
9. Don't waste money on cab fares. MRT is more convenient and fast/cheap.
10. Use SQ First Lounge at Changi. It is exceptional.
11. Go to Little India and China Town.
12. Don't bother with Duck Tours. It's not worth time/money.
13. Don't bother with Hop On/Hop Off Bus Tours, also not worth it.
14. Bring an umbrella and a lightweight waterproof jacket for sudden downpours.
15. Go to Raffles Hotel/Bar, but order a normal drink. Singapore Sling is OK, but too small and costs a bloody fortune.
16. Night Safari is very good unless it rains.

Really, lots of good food/drink opportunities in SG, but probably not where I'd go for an employer sponsored holiday. Too bad this wasn't a month ago, Singapore F1 Night Race is SPECTACULAR!

Singapore is a great hopping off place to other nearby SE Asia countries. If I were you, I'd transit at SIN and hop a flight to BKK for a day and a half. So much to see in BKK and an AirAsia flight is CHEAP+CLEAN. Alternatively, Bali is practically across the street and also a super cheap fare.

Good luck. PM me if more questions. I just moved back to USA from living in SG for two years.

Take the MTR and cable car to Sentosa and have several goes on the luge. Also, if you've not been on a Segway before you can have a try out for not much money.

2. Have a drink at Clarke Quay at The Clinic.

Oh God, how could I forget that place. Fabulously barking concept bar. :D

i agree go to HK/BKK instead

Take water wings if you choose the option in bold.

K-rist ... has it really gone that far downhill, or are you all completely jaded from jet-setting?

I only had 2 1/2 years there, back in the late '60s, and was never bored [and rarely sober].

I have no idea what it's like these days, although I can guess having read a few things over the decades. Only suggestion would be to get away from the chrome and glass and bullshot and find a bit of "Old Singers".
There must be some faintly smelly and questionable areas left, surely? ;)

And what BankerManUSA said ... "Eat at food stalls and be adventurous. Avoid Kopitiam, that doesn't count as a food stall. Get some chicken or duck rice. Yum!"
The old makan stalls were the perfect way to eat out. A bowl of this here, a plate of that there, it's Dim Sum on the move [or at least it was].

stones bar merchant road gary and bong playing live every night (except sunday) and run by a lovely filipina called Grace.

As a Singaporean born and bred, I love and loathe my country for various reasons.
Lately I spend more time overseas than in Singapore exploring different cities because I'm somewhat bored with Singapore (currently in Prague).

But honestly speaking, I'm surprised by the comments here because my sentiments are totally opposite - I totally love the food in Hong Kong, but I find it too gritty and dirty for my liking. If anything, I'll go to HK only as a stopover on CX, for the food and the shopping.

Tokyo as a physical city is rather unimpressive to me. But the people and culture and awesome food make it so much more interesting that SIN or HK.

As a Singaporean born and bred, I love and loathe my country for various reasons.
Lately I spend more time overseas than in Singapore exploring different cities because I'm somewhat bored with Singapore (currently in Prague).
That is life on a small Island ... mine is 9x5 miles. Not a huge 25x15 like yours. But then you will keep reclaiming the sea!!:D

I can understand how you can feel though - never affected me, but several colleagues felt the pressure.

Do you really mean 24 hours or are you there for just over a week?

2. Have a drink at Clarke Quay at The Clinic.


Fabulously barking concept bar. :D

The very sight of that place makes me feel ill. There's something quite wrong about sitting in wheelchairs under operating room lights and drinking from IVs!

My suggestion for good food, try to find a 'plastic chair' food court which is buzzing with locals. These places serve fantastic and authentic Asian cuisine and are very cheap too.

Another vote for the botanic gardens from me as well. ^

Having just spend 2 days there on a stopover there and back from the UK, my food recommendation would be for chilli crab and black pepper crab, both national dishes as far as I'm concerned. Try Jumbo (http://www.jumboseafood.com.sg/special_branch01.html)on the East Coast Parkway - it's by the sea and gives you a good view and a refreshing breeze.

An alternative eating spot is Dempsey Hill, which used to be army barracks but now houses shops, bars and restaurants.

Another vote for Little India - do some shopping at the huge Mustafa centre

The zoo is meant to be good although we didn't make it there.

Taxis were surprisingly cheap ($20 to the airport) so we used them a lot to get around.

IMO, HK would be a better place to go.

Anyway,

328 Katong Laksa - lunch, very cheap & very good
Bukit Timah nature reserve - nice walks, tree top walks, monkeys, good views
Cable car over to Sentosa - great ride
Chijmes for dinner & lively drinks.....Lei Garden is very good - the pubs aren't bad either
Shopping - Orchard Road

Enjoy & report back on how you filled your 24 hrs :)

I want your boss! Last time I was there I went to the sky bar on the boat... Most entertaining ;)

I know I'm swimming against the tide ..... but what's new!

If you are a foody .... you may be interested in some background to Singapore street food and other hawker food (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/17320646-post5.html) which to me represents a decent enough reason to travle to Singapore - and you may also be interested in a discussion a while back By the way ... Singapore is NOT just a stopover .... (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/singapore/1068398-way-singapore-not-just-stopover.html). I adore Singapore and now spend around 3 or 4 separate weeks per year there. It's just an antidote to the UK particularly during the worst of winter.

The very sight of that place makes me feel ill. There's something quite wrong about sitting in wheelchairs under operating room lights and drinking from IVs!

Even more fun when you do wheelchair races up and down the road. ;)

I am afraid that I would tend to agree with the majority: eat, eat, eat and then eat some more. That's just about the only interesting thing to do in Singapore.

I wouldn't visit Marina Bay Sands unless you are staying there. But for 24 hours i'd be seriously tempted to stay there. They are now limiting visitors to the infinity pool to specific tour times, so you no longer feel gawped at!

And the higher rooms are spectacular - in terms of view (all else is rather average).

Or if your employer is paying, I was taken aback by the Fullerton Bay - would probably be my splurge hotel.

17 visits to Singapore and counting :) I never choose to go there, it's just such a bloody crossroads to the world! A few years back I was so bored with the place, but my last visit last December I discovered some vitality to see things anew!

And to be honest, 24-36 hours is too short in BKK, or HKG - that would leave me frustrated, but I could plan 36 hours in Singapore and come away feeling I had seen what needed to be seen.

I haven't been to Singapore since stopping over on the way to/from Oz a couple of times in '96/'97, but remember really loving the place. While I could certainly see how the rules & regulations could be found by some to create a sterile, soulless environment, I really loved that aspect to it & found it was something I could relate to. The sense of order, neatness & calm, suited me just fine.

If you're into WWII / Military I would recommend visiting The Battle Box (http://www.thebattlebox.com/) situated under Fort Canning Hill.

i find after a week or so in MNL a good 48hrs in SIN decompressing makes you really appreciate sterility and law and order.

I guess FT must be telling me I'm getting old!

For us on our visits - every day is pretty much the same. We just go and get up really early and go for a really long wander - many or perhaps most days in places like Botanic Gardens. Spend all morning thinking about lunch. Then lunch with lots of beer. Back for a doze. Afternoon tea. Sometimes a visit somewhere. Happy hour or three in the lounge. Out for more food and a wander. Bed. Can't do this in Blighty in February etc

I'm only ever bored when doing things. Only ever happy when doing nothing with nothing planned. To me that's bliss. Singapore is a great place to do nothing and eat great food.

I guess FT must be telling me I'm getting old!

For us on our visits - every day is pretty much the same. We just go and get up really early and go for a really long wander - many or perhaps most days in places like Botanic Gardens. Spend all morning thinking about lunch. Then lunch with lots of beer. Back for a doze. Afternoon tea. Sometimes a visit somewhere. Happy hour or three in the lounge. Out for more food and a wander. Bed. Can't do this in Blighty in February etc

I'm only ever bored when doing things. Only ever happy when doing nothing with nothing planned. To me that's bliss. Singapore is a great place to do nothing and eat great food.

I also love SIN. However, if you want to experience a different culture/scene I would recommend HK or BKK before trying SIN.

SIN, is like Asia for beginners....that's not a bad thing but it's not a very exciting adventure into the Far East either.

I would happily go to SIN every year & have done so for the past 7 years. However, I have also been to Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam, China, Thailand, Malaysia multiply times.

SIN for me is a great place to go for a long weekend :D

I know both HK and BKK well. Thankfully we're all different. :p

Last trip to BKK lost me 3 stone and involved a hospital visit. Something to be said for the SIN hygiene police .....

Change your mind. A dull, antiseptic dictatorship.


Good food though.

Oh and a fun dictatorship too. If someone else plants more than 15 grams of heroin on a person, the second person is hanged mandatorily. No exceptions allowed. and they put Alan Shadrake, a British author who wrote about this death penalty behind bars just for kicks!

So watching the carry on luggage at all times might be a good idea.

Oh and a fun dictatorship too. If someone else plants more than 15 grams of heroin on a person, the second person is hanged mandatorily. No exceptions allowed. and they put Alan Shadrake, a British author who wrote about this death penalty behind bars just for kicks!

So watching the carry on luggage at all times might be a good idea.

Two potential wrongs don't make a right but I can feel a discussion coming on about the merits of the US legal system with respect to the trials without adequate access to justice and the inevitable execution of innocent people ......... but I won't!:)

BKK taxis v SIN taxis! Discuss .........:D

BKK taxis v SIN taxis! Discuss .........:D

Therein lies the problem. It all works better in SIN, but at the sense of scrubbing every last bit of character out of the place. Look at Bugis Junction. Once a nightlife centre of global repute. Now a boring shopping centre.

However you and I will never agree on this. :D

If you need a new watch - Singapore is the place to buy it.

Therein lies the problem. It all works better in SIN, but at the sense of scrubbing every last bit of character out of the place. Look at Bugis Junction. Once a nightlife centre of global repute. Now a boring shopping centre.

However you and I will never agree on this. :D



Oh s*d it! Now he tells me that Bugis is boring. Bu*ger Bugis he says! :D

As you well know Bugis is famous for the IC Lounge. And additionally, from Bugis you have the new MRT extensions that give all sorts of new eating opportunities. You have Little India for example where excitement is eating curry on a banana leaf. And did I mention the IC Lounge?

If one removes a lot of the macho stuff out of the notion that Singapore is a softy introduction to Asia, let's not forget that a lot of the posts here are from people who this will be their first venture east. In that environment, and for boring s*ds like me the cleaner, safer and equally or better food in Singapore is a much better option than some of the alternatives. BKK gave me food poisoning and the constant shafting by taxi drivers. And irrespective of the other comment about not taking taxis, taxis for tourists in SIN is a no brainer. Rediculously cheap, safe and virtually no chance of scamming.

And from that launch pad they can progress to what others say is less antispectic or not as they prefer. I simply went forth but came back. I know I'm lazy but it doesn't make me a bad person.

HKG over SIN any day of the week!

I find SIN particularly soulless and uninteresting. However, I am sure this thread will start the HKG/SIN debate once again ;)

Been to Hong Kong twice...first time I loved it second time I spent the days wondering what it was that made me like it so much the first time. Why people keep going on about how good it is I'll never know. :confused:

BKK taxis v SIN taxis! Discuss .........:D

When I lived in SIN (so my comments up-thread are not those of a single visit) the taxi drivers bought the license with no equivalent of "The Knowledge". This resulted in about 1 in 5 of my drivers not being able to take me to work .... one of the two largest hospitals on the Island.

:rolleyes:

Been to Hong Kong twice...first time I loved it second time I spent the days wondering what it was that made me like it so much the first time. Why people keep going on about how good it is I'll never know. :confused:

Hong Kong is spectacular if you want to sit and look at the harbour, but beyond Victoria Peak and the Star Ferry, I don't find it a particularly interesting city.

I've been to Singapore maybe 5-6 times, always en route to or from somewhere else, and always enjoyed my stays there. Great hotels, great food, nice and hot (perhaps too humid for some people's liking) and big enough (though not too big) to keep you occupied for a couple of days.

I meant to add, so many people stay in the city. But there is so much to see travelling round the island. Changi is very moving IMHO, raffles marina and club for true luxury! Kepple bay,.... But in 24 hours that probably isn't practical.

BKK taxis v SIN taxis! Discuss .........:D

they work and are a bargain but blimey sometimes its not as easy as people make out. sliding about in the back of an older one on the vinyl during the relentless gas brake gas can be hard work if jetlagged too. the shift change palarver can be a pain as well if you are not used to it and need one in a hurry.

i do love the bossy marshall woman at SIN though it always makes me smile after a long flight, there is no messing about with her.

as a Londoner I find it difficult to be impressed with any other citys cabs though, parochially.

Dear Mods - I would be very grateful if you could please give this the customary run here before moving it elsewhere!

My employer kindly offered me business class tickets to anywhere in the world for a weekend away. :)

So I decided to go to Singapore because I have not been before.

I will be arriving at 8pm on this Friday evening and leaving at 9.30pm on Saturday evening and will be staying somewhere in or near city but not sure exactly where yet.

The way I see it I have a night and an afternoon to do some sightseeing.

So what should I do?

I am keeping an open mind apart from one thing. I absolutely have to eat crispy belly pork and/or pork ribs.

Advice welcome! :D

Sixth Freedom, that's a cool reward, enjoy your trip, is your employer recruiting :)

i do love the bossy marshall woman at SIN though it always makes me smile after a long flight, there is no messing about with her.



Not experienced it. Always do JetQuay.:p:p:p

Two potential wrongs don't make a right but I can feel a discussion coming on about the merits of the US legal system with respect to the trials without adequate access to justice and the inevitable execution of innocent people ......... but I won't!:)

The most important difference being that in US it is not a mandatory death sentence. In Singapore it is: if one is carrying 15 grams or more, it is death: whether that person was aware of it or not.

Besides, not all people in US support the death penalty.

If you need a new watch - Singapore is the place to buy it.

If you need a fake new watch: then BKK is the place to buy it. ;)

Thanks for the advice chaps. ^

I think that the Botanical Gardens are the place to go and occupy myself. It is always nice to see plenty of good greenery after being here in the desert for a while.

The most important difference being that in US it is not a mandatory death sentence. In Singapore it is: if one is carrying 15 grams or more, it is death: whether that person was aware of it or not.

Besides, not all people in US support the death penalty.


I do understand your point. But you raised the context of justice in Singapore from your standpoint as an American. And the impostion of the death penalty in America is a bit of a lottery - often with very little to do with justice.

May I just raise the following point if I promise I won't pursue it further!

Most Brits - and perhaps many Americans - might be unaware that for example in Florida, having had a "hand picked" jury (if you get my meaning ;) ) that a conclusion of guilt can be arrived at by a simply majority (ie not found guilty "beyond all doubt" as in British Law) and that the same jury will in capital cases vote on whether a death penalty be imposed. Although currently being debated - it is not the judge who decides and that decision again is decided on a simple majority ie 7 out of 12 jurors. So a majority verdict followed by a majority arrived at sentence from a hand-picked jury that has no chance of being commuted by the Governor.

The defendant is often represented by a court appointed lawyer of variable quality and my link below gives some detail of how poor these lawyers can be. The so called appeals procedure involves a politican - governor - arbitrating on whether the sentence be carried out. The politician has often campaigned on being a death penalty supporter and knows he will be unelectable if he commutes any sentences whatsoever.

The condemed person can then languish on death row for decades - often being prepared for death and sometimes being taken and strapped into the instruments of execution - only then to receive a last minute reprieve. Most people would consider that appalling torture. The justice system in the US as you (may) know is not justice driven but process driven.

I only detail this because I think it reasonable to remind - and a genuinely friendly reminder to someone who may even share the same views - that there is no position of strength that any of us can really pronounce from on justice in Singapore! At least it can be described as being very clear .... and Singapore has as a result provided a safe place for it's citizens. Something many of us envy!

Moderator apology in advance. Pith helmet on. :D

Thanks for the advice chaps. ^

I think that the Botanical Gardens are the place to go and occupy myself. It is always nice to see plenty of good greenery after being here in the desert for a while.

I'm not an orchid man .... . but the Orchid Garden in the Royal Botanic Gardens is wonderful. Go just as it opens and walk in the opposite to the arrow directions so that you pass rather than follow people. My tip of the day!

hotel wise of course you are spoilt for choice in most ranges but on a budget Hotel Re pearls hill (chin swee road for the inevitable debate with the cabby) is my new recent favourite. converted school done out very bonkers-ly. you get the choice of elvis or marilyn monroe rooms each as garish as the other. very very reasonable and good fun.

Not read all of the above, but dont waste your time going up the Marina Bay Sands development (the three towers). If you are purely paying to go up for a look as a tourist, it's pretty naff up top. We were massively let-down by it - far far far better was the Singapore Flyer (amazing).

Shame your timings won't really work for doing the Night Zoo - that's incredible too.

Enjoy!

Oh - and I can recommend the Club Floor @ The Mandarin Oriental.

Oh - and I can recommend the Club Floor @ The Mandarin Oriental.

^ +1

It was my fav hotel as well when I went over there.

I guess FT must be telling me I'm getting old!

For us on our visits - every day is pretty much the same. We just go and get up really early and go for a really long wander - many or perhaps most days in places like Botanic Gardens. Spend all morning thinking about lunch. Then lunch with lots of beer. Back for a doze. Afternoon tea. Sometimes a visit somewhere. Happy hour or three in the lounge. Out for more food and a wander. Bed. Can't do this in Blighty in February etc

I'm only ever bored when doing things. Only ever happy when doing nothing with nothing planned. To me that's bliss. Singapore is a great place to do nothing and eat great food.

Sounds exactly like my ideal day in SIN. Having been to other parts of Asia, I always like going back to SIN for the right mix of eating (I love the variety) and doing nothing.

My employer kindly offered me business class tickets to anywhere in the world for a weekend away. :)
D

Only business class? If that were not specified, how about Tristan da Cunha. The problem is that it has no airport and can only be reached by ship from Cape Town or Ascension Island or by private yacht.

Arrive hungry.

Consider making a run for the Malaysian border to get a passport stamp.

Night safari is good; do the walking/self-guided part first and the tram ride later. That way, you'll avoid a lot of the talking and camera-clicking masses that tend to ruin the tram experience.

Botanical gardens are decent, but if it is really hot out, it may not be worth it, since it can be quite exhausting walking around in the heat, humidity, and sunlight.

I don't "get" Little India or the Mustafa Center, but I enjoy the chinatown area and I typically don't like such places.

The best part of Singapore, in my view, is just soaking in the cultural diversity and watching it all go by while sitting at an outside table or in an MRT train.

Consider making a run for the Malaysian border to get a passport stamp.



Or keep on going to KUL....that's a place I wouldn't mind visiting. I wonder why it never seems to get much of a mention on here?

Or keep on going to KUL....that's a place I wouldn't mind visiting. I wonder why it never seems to get much of a mention on here?

I guess because KUL is not as "Asia 101-y" as SIN...;)

I guess because KUL is not as "Asia 101-y" as SIN...;)

What's a Asia 101-y? :confused:

What's a Asia 101-y? :confused:

I was making a (facetious) reference to the opinion held by some that Singapore provides a beginners overview to Asia, partly due to the mix of cultures but mainly due to people not having to forgo cherished western comforts.

KUL being more off the beaten track and all that....

I was making a (facetious) reference to the opinion held by some that Singapore provides a beginners overview to Asia, partly due to the mix of cultures but mainly due to people not having to forgo cherished western comforts.

KUL being more off the beaten track and all that....

agreed if you take SIN into context in the region its just a big organised city, taking sovereign status away from it. i know the OP was asking about 24 hours but if you look at the region within easy striking distance either overland or by short crossing, its by no means Asia - lite just a short trip outside the island. its like saying HKG is China-lite.

I was making a (facetious) reference to the opinion held by some that Singapore provides a beginners overview to Asia, partly due to the mix of cultures but mainly due to people not having to forgo cherished western comforts.

I thought it was Vancouver not Singapore?

That was me being facetious by the way.

I thought it was Vancouver not Singapore?

That was me being facetious by the way.

:D

Nice...and not too far from the truth as well...

I do understand your point. But you raised the context of justice in Singapore from your standpoint as an American. And the impostion of the death penalty in America is a bit of a lottery - often with very little to do with justice.

May I just raise the following point if I promise I won't pursue it further!

Most Brits - and perhaps many Americans - might be unaware that for example in Florida, having had a "hand picked" jury (if you get my meaning ;) ) that a conclusion of guilt can be arrived at by a simply majority (ie not found guilty "beyond all doubt" as in British Law) and that the same jury will in capital cases vote on whether a death penalty be imposed. Although currently being debated - it is not the judge who decides and that decision again is decided on a simple majority ie 7 out of 12 jurors. So a majority verdict followed by a majority arrived at sentence from a hand-picked jury that has no chance of being commuted by the Governor.

The defendant is often represented by a court appointed lawyer of variable quality and my link below gives some detail of how poor these lawyers can be. The so called appeals procedure involves a politican - governor - arbitrating on whether the sentence be carried out. The politician has often campaigned on being a death penalty supporter and knows he will be unelectable if he commutes any sentences whatsoever.

The condemed person can then languish on death row for decades - often being prepared for death and sometimes being taken and strapped into the instruments of execution - only then to receive a last minute reprieve. Most people would consider that appalling torture. The justice system in the US as you (may) know is not justice driven but process driven.

I only detail this because I think it reasonable to remind - and a genuinely friendly reminder to someone who may even share the same views - that there is no position of strength that any of us can really pronounce from on justice in Singapore! At least it can be described as being very clear .... and Singapore has as a result provided a safe place for it's citizens. Something many of us envy!

Moderator apology in advance. Pith helmet on. :D

You have gone into quite a bit of details and I agree with many of your substantive points. Last minute repireves, strapping into gurneys and a long judicial process etc being some of them but the most inhuman being the death penalty itself. apparantly, you have not read the last sentence of my previous post realting to Singapore.

Your post suffers from one basic flaw. You postulate that since I am American, hence I must answer for all the faults of the US system. Well, I do not have to. You do not even know if I agree with US justice system and do not know if I hold any other nationality. I as a human being have the perfect right to criticize and make others aware of what I see as an draconian and barbaric system in Singapore without being tagged with the perceived flaws of the country of my nationality or nationalities.

Whatever the flaws of US justice system are, may I repeat, there is no mandatory death penalty that puts the burden of proof on the defendant. In Singapore you must prove that you are innocent: how perverted is that? How can one bring a record of one's mental state before, during or after the commission of an event? How can one prove that one did not know? Yet, this impossibility is the benchmark of innocence in Singapore. They hang people with the inhuman judgement that "Even though there is nothing to suggest that the defendent is aware that he was carrying drugs, the defendent should have known, and so he is guilty." Singapore death penalty is state sponsored killing of innocent or unaware people: plain and simple.

Singapore has as a result provided a safe place for it's citizens. Something many of us envy!

I will ask one question of you which may be food for thought: if 'safety' of citizens justifies any law, why not put all citizens in jail: that will make everyone perfectly safe!

The care of Human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only object of good Government. – Thomas Jefferson.

I will ask one question of you which may be food for thought: if 'safety' of citizens justifies any law, why not put all citizens in jail: that will make everyone perfectly safe!

The care of Human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only object of good Government. – Thomas Jefferson.


I do get it I promise. I just do not think the issues are as beguilingly simple as you seem to believe.:)

The US currently routinely incarcerates and executes innocent people on the simple basis that most of them are probably or possibly - but not all of them - guilty, and that it is politically popular to continue to do so. The major factor that will decide these people's fate isn't their innocence or guilt but their colour and/or their poverty or affluence. The US also routinely condemns an enormous percentage of it's population to apalling poverty and illness and death through their inability to afford food or healthcare. Presumably Americans are content to accept this situation because they have chosen to do nothing about it.

Singapore doesn't routinely execute people that have had drugs planted on them as you suggest but it has made it clear that it has a zero tolerance towards drug possession. Because of this 99.9% of the population feel they are able to walk the streets safely at night and many of their homes remain unburgled.

If I were forced to judge which of the defects are fairer on society as a whole I'd guess on balance I'd choose the latter.

It's certainly changed since the day I haggled with a Police Inspector over the fixed penalty for failing to stop at a STOP sign.
I think I managed to beat him down from $100 to $50 ;)

It's certainly changed since the day I haggled with a Police Inspector over the fixed penalty for failing to stop at a STOP sign.
I think I managed to beat him down from $100 to $50 ;)

Genuine justice with a softer edge:D

I do get it I promise. I just do not think the issues are as beguilingly simple as you seem to believe.:)

Singapore doesn't routinely execute people that have had drugs planted on them as you suggest but it has made it clear that it has a zero tolerance towards drug possession. Because of this 99.9% of the population feel they are able to walk the streets safely at night and many of their homes remain unburgled..

There is a disconnect between your perception and hard facts. Actually Singapore does routinely and matter of factly execute people who have drugs planted on them. Amara Tochi case was the one which proved that: even unknowing people who are not aware that they are carrying drugs are executed. In the case of Vignesh Mourthy, they refused to give the reasons for his conviction and hanging and promised to give those after he was hanged. Like I said: Singapore hangings are barbarism pure and simple.

Oh and by the way, singapore does not permit criticism of the Government. Alan Shadrake (British author) was put behind bars in Singapore after judicial threats and a witch hunt after he chose to criticize Singapore justice system. Now is that part of the 99.9% safety record? Between that and freedom, I choose freedom.

If I were forced to judge which of the defects are fairer on society as a whole I'd guess on balance I'd choose the latter.

Like I would choose the former. I guess it is a question of whether one is comformable letting the police and faceless Government clerks run your life or your being able to make a few choices within a reasonably safe society.

You are more at risk crossing the road, statistically speaking, than being subject to any 'danger' in your definition of imperfect societies.

Let us imagine for a moment that your account of the situation is balanced - which it is not. I'm confining my answer to the original complaint you made about drugs and the death penalty rather than the diversions you made subsequently.

As you will see from my banner I support Repreive so I guess my sentiments on the topic can be presumed. Several times each year I'm asked to stump up cash to support inmates on US death row who are suffering a miscarriage of justice. Recently many of the requests have simply been for funding for inexpensive DNA tests which could prove the innocence of an convicted person awaiting execution and where the justice system wouldn't fund the test. I have been honoured to meet a few of the people recently who have travelled to the UK in order to meet some of us who have funded their defence. This does not indicate a system of which people of conscience should feel proud and that takes any basic effort toprotect it's own innocent people from a death penalty lottery.

Singapore justifies it's system on the basis that it's society benefits from the tough stance it takes. I think their claim does appear to be justified. Drug trafficing and it's resulting lawlessness is almoost eliminated. This approach isn't without a cost as you point out. The downside of this approach is that people are executed for drug trafficing and there is a risk of miscarriages of justice.

America routinely tortures and executes innocent people with no discernible benefit to society as a whole.

I am not stating (and no have I) that either is right. I am however suggesting that one feels "more wrong" than the other to me.

So here I am in Singapore near the end of my trip.

What I saw and did:
* 4 minutes from plane seat to taxi ^
* 35 minutes from plane seat to hotel room ^
* Lots of attractive women wearing very short dresses and shorts ^
* Lots of very big crabs ^
* Lots and lots and lots of white people :confused:
* Orchard Towers shopping mall at night time (the four floors of whores - I did not believe it until I saw it myself) :eek:
* Cool halloween parties in Clarke Quay and elsewhere ^
* The wheelchair bar that Swanhunter and matthandy mentioned ^
* Peony Jade Chinese restaurant, one of SIN's best apparently, where I had capital spare ribs and stir fried beef with spring onion ^
* Haagen Dazs ice cream sushi ^
* Mighty rain showers ^
* Fort Canning park ^
* SGD 8 (four quid) for a Coke in Clarke Quay! :td:

All in all, a very good trip. Flight on QR was excellent.

TR coming soon!

So here I am in Singapore near the end of my trip.
.....

All in all, a very good trip. Flight on QR was excellent.

TR coming soon!

Looking forward to that TR.
I know the place has changed immensely since I left there in Apr 70 ;)

Yes ..... Looking forward to hearing of these attractive women in short dresses and crabs ......:D

Yes ..... Looking forward to hearing of these attractive women in short dresses and crabs ......:D

Here is the TR... But it focuses on the flights! :D (http://tinyurl.com/6freedom-tr-3)

Great TR ..... and trip. Do I spy a hole in the right sock? :D

Let us imagine for a moment that your account of the situation is balanced - which it is not. I'm confining my answer to the original complaint you made about drugs and the death penalty rather than the diversions you made subsequently.

As you will see from my banner I support Repreive so I guess my sentiments on the topic can be presumed. Several times each year I'm asked to stump up cash to support inmates on US death row who are suffering a miscarriage of justice. Recently many of the requests have simply been for funding for inexpensive DNA tests which could prove the innocence of an convicted person awaiting execution and where the justice system wouldn't fund the test. I have been honoured to meet a few of the people recently who have travelled to the UK in order to meet some of us who have funded their defence. This does not indicate a system of which people of conscience should feel proud and that takes any basic effort toprotect it's own innocent people from a death penalty lottery.

Singapore justifies it's system on the basis that it's society benefits from the tough stance it takes. I think their claim does appear to be justified. Drug trafficing and it's resulting lawlessness is almoost eliminated. This approach isn't without a cost as you point out. The downside of this approach is that people are executed for drug trafficing and there is a risk of miscarriages of justice.

America routinely tortures and executes innocent people with no discernible benefit to society as a whole.

I am not stating (and no have I) that either is right. I am however suggesting that one feels "more wrong" than the other to me.

Sorry I am a little late in replying. I am pro-reprieve as well, so that means that we have something in common. So what are we exactly divergent on? Your stance that Singapore's stance on enforcing death penalty is 'justified' while in the same post you try to criticize US death penalty, the justice system in US and their 'torture'.

I have to say that your stand appears to be flawed and seriously confused. How can you support death penalty in one case and oppose it in another?

Singapore's defence means nothing. all Governments, including UK, justify their actions on the basis of their holier-than-thou laws and then issue apologies decades if not centuries later. The crimes committed by the UK Government during the period of the UK empire and beyond comes readily to mind, for which apologies were issued later.

I do not have any issues with any of those past history, but I raise them as a counterpoint to your persistent complaints about the US Government while discussing Singapore death penalty: an approach that makes no sense to me. Death Penalty is wrong, period. It does not matter if it is US, Singapore or outer Mongolia. I never said that Singapore is 'more wrong' while the US is less wrong. all are wrong. I raised my point about Singapore, as this thread HAPPENED TO BE about Singapore transit.

Now I contend that Singapore is more draconian that US laws.

(a) Singapore's laws have NO discretion. US laws have some discretion. In Singapore, if you are unaware of carrying drugs and they are found on you, you hang. Even Singapore Judges cannot make an exception. In the US, past records are taken into consideration and sometimes sentences are commuted.

(b) In Singapore, the person is guilty till proven innocent. This is against all common sense and justice.

(c) IN Singapore, one is required by law to prove that one did not know that they were carrying drugs. This is an obvious impossibility to prove what one knew before. In US, there are laws, and there are stupid laws, but no obviously impossible laws to fullfill.

If what you say about raising cash for US death row inmates is true, and at thte same time you think death penalty in Singapore is 'justified': what are you really working for? The death row inmates, or personal glory?

Sorry I am a little late in replying. I am pro-reprieve as well, so that means that we have something in common. So what are we exactly divergent on? Your stance that Singapore's stance on enforcing death penalty is 'justified' while in the same post you try to criticize US death penalty, the justice system in US and their 'torture'.

I have to say that your stand appears to be flawed and seriously confused. How can you support death penalty in one case and oppose it in another?

Singapore's defence means nothing. all Governments, including UK, justify their actions on the basis of their holier-than-thou laws and then issue apologies decades if not centuries later. The crimes committed by the UK Government during the period of the UK empire and beyond comes readily to mind, for which apologies were issued later.

I do not have any issues with any of those past history, but I raise them as a counterpoint to your persistent complaints about the US Government while discussing Singapore death penalty: an approach that makes no sense to me. Death Penalty is wrong, period. It does not matter if it is US, Singapore or outer Mongolia. I never said that Singapore is 'more wrong' while the US is less wrong. all are wrong. I raised my point about Singapore, as this thread HAPPENED TO BE about Singapore transit.

Now I contend that Singapore is more draconian that US laws.

(a) Singapore's laws have NO discretion. US laws have some discretion. In Singapore, if you are unaware of carrying drugs and they are found on you, you hang. Even Singapore Judges cannot make an exception. In the US, past records are taken into consideration and sometimes sentences are commuted.

(b) In Singapore, the person is guilty till proven innocent. This is against all common sense and justice.

(c) IN Singapore, one is required by law to prove that one did not know that they were carrying drugs. This is an obvious impossibility to prove what one knew before. In US, there are laws, and there are stupid laws, but no obviously impossible laws to fullfill.

If what you say about raising cash for US death row inmates is true, and at thte same time you think death penalty in Singapore is 'justified': what are you really working for? The death row inmates, or personal glory?

To take your last point .. And just that - because this isn't the place.

1. I didn't say I "raise cash" for Reprieve - I said I give cash. Your questioning of "whether it is true or not" is not received well.

2. You have presumed (understandably) that because I support Reprieve that I must therefore be against the death penalty. For personal reasons (the murder of a close family member) I am undecided because I am biased. What I am clear about is the need for a fair trial and access to a decent defence when people's lives are at risk. I'm not going to debate Singapore's judicial system simply because I have insufficient knowledge of it compared to my understanding of the US process.

My posts in this thread have not been to defend Singapore - but have been about my reaction to the ease with which you appear to feel it appropriate to introduce your perceptions about unfairness in other societies in a thread about a bloke going to Singapore for a weekend - but seem grumpy about the defects being mentioned about the lack of justice in your own society.

To take your last point .. And just that - because this isn't the place.

1. I didn't say I "raise cash" for Reprieve - I said I give cash. Your questioning of "whether it is true or not" is not received well.

2. You have presumed (understandably) that because I support Reprieve that I must therefore be against the death penalty. For personal reasons (the murder of a close family member) I am undecided because I am biased. What I am clear about is the need for a fair trial and access to a decent defence when people's lives are at risk. I'm not going to debate Singapore's judicial system simply because I have insufficient knowledge of it compared to my understanding of the US process.

My posts in this thread have not been to defend Singapore - but have been about my reaction to the ease with which you appear to feel it appropriate to introduce your perceptions about unfairness in other societies in a thread about a bloke going to Singapore for a weekend - but seem grumpy about the defects being mentioned about the lack of justice in your own society.

You did not say that you give cash: you said you 'stump up' cash. I am not aware of any such verb, maybe a more precise definition would be a good idea?

I am sorry to hear of your experience with regards to your family member.

I am confused as to how you can speak about Singapore Justice if you, as per your own post, have 'insufficient' knowledge about it. If you do, you will find they executed so many people as to become the leading nation in per capital executions in the world. Besides, if you are not going to debate Singapore's judicial system, then I fail to see the point in dragging US judicial system into this specific thread. If you feel strongly about US judicial system, start a new thread and talk away on it as much as you like. This thread was about Singapore, hence my posts have relevence. And I have lots of knowledge about Singapore Justice, or specifically the lack thereof.

It is SPECIFICALLY for a 'bloke' (a 'guy' I think) going to Singapore for a weekend' that I sounded a warning. One needs to watch their bags including carry-on like a hawk to avoid being hanged: that is a very relevent point for a visitor to Singapore.

If you care to research other boards about travel safety and security, you find threads about US TSA and their stupidity where I have contributed in the past. I did not commit the faux pas of raising the Singapore or UK justice system in those US threads.

You have assumed that I live in US and hence referred to it as 'my own society'. You do not know where I live and if I hold multiple nationalities and so 'my own society' is a vague term. And again, I have no need to defend all US laws as I do not agree with all of them. And lack of justice is a common factor in all societies, at various points in time, including yours.

You did not say that you give cash: you said you 'stump up' cash. I am not aware of any such verb, maybe a more precise definition would be a good idea?

I am sorry to hear of your experience with regards to your family member.

I am confused as to how you can speak about Singapore Justice if you, as per your own post, have 'insufficient' knowledge about it. If you do, you will find they executed so many people as to become the leading nation in per capital executions in the world. Besides, if you are not going to debate Singapore's judicial system, then I fail to see the point in dragging US judicial system into this specific thread. If you feel strongly about US judicial system, start a new thread and talk away on it as much as you like. This thread was about Singapore, hence my posts have relevence. And I have lots of knowledge about Singapore Justice, or specifically the lack thereof.

It is SPECIFICALLY for a 'bloke' (a 'guy' I think) going to Singapore for a weekend' that I sounded a warning. One needs to watch their bags including carry-on like a hawk to avoid being hanged: that is a very relevent point for a visitor to Singapore.

If you care to research other boards about travel safety and security, you find threads about US TSA and their stupidity where I have contributed in the past. I did not commit the faux pas of raising the Singapore or UK justice system in those US threads.

You have assumed that I live in US and hence referred to it as 'my own society'. You do not know where I live and if I hold multiple nationalities and so 'my own society' is a vague term. And again, I have no need to defend all US laws as I do not agree with all of them. And lack of justice is a common factor in all societies, at various points in time, including yours.

You were warning someone not to go to Singapore in case they get executed?!

I presumed you lived where we established in another thread from your handle ie "White Plains". I apologise if I misunderstood.

I think when posts get this pompous and rude - it's time to cut the exchange!

Time for the political conversation to cease..and for this thread to head to the Singapore forum.

Swanhunter
Moderator, BAEC

You were warning someone not to go to Singapore in case they get executed?!

Yes, of course, If one had a grudge against a person, all they would need to do is to plant drugs on the latter from a transit point outside Singapore, and then tip off the Singapore guys. The courts in Singapore would do the rest and the guy is gone from this world: and best of all, it is all legitimate.

I disagree with you, but I did not mean to come off as rude or pompous. I regret if that is the case.

I am sure, these laws and enforcement make Singapore safe for Singaporeans and tourists alike. When you come to Singapore, I hope you will have a fun time exploring what this sunny island has to offer and mingle with Singaporeans.

Time for the political conversation to cease..and for this thread to head to the Singapore forum.

Swanhunter
Moderator, BAEC

Opps, sorry that I did not see this before I post.

Alright, no more political convos here for me.

cheers folks.

Accidently deleted email from FT'er asking for help. If you resend - I'll try.

Thanks for the advice chaps. ^

I think that the Botanical Gardens are the place to go and occupy myself. It is always nice to see plenty of good greenery after being here in the desert for a while.

I love going to Botanical Gardens and try to do it wherever I go in the world. There is just something so nice about wandering through those lovely places. A couple of my favorites are the Royal Botanical Gardens in Sydney and Kew Gardens in London.

Only business class? If that were not specified, how about Tristan da Cunha. The problem is that it has no airport and can only be reached by ship from Cape Town or Ascension Island or by private yacht.

Noble Caledonia "Island Sky" now makes a cruise ship stop there -- weather and seas permitting. It is on my bucket list. I'm goin'!

Or keep on going to KUL....that's a place I wouldn't mind visiting. I wonder why it never seems to get much of a mention on here?

Day trip bus to Malacca is better than trying to get to KL. See the long-distance busses in Singapore up past the Little India area - you can get their by metro. Several lines go to Malacca - lots of green scenery and very historic old part city starting with the Portuguese in the 1500's.

PS: I would have picked Shanghai for the short trip. Take the 300 mph Maglev into town to transfer to the metro, pop out of the metro on pedestrian exclusive Nathan Road, get some Shanghai dumplings ASAP in an upstairs walk-up, wander down to the Bund and back, head into People's Park and keep walking and walking and walking; take the wacky underground to Pudong and walk and walk and walk. Fabulous, accessible city.