Finnair Plus - Waitlist for upgrade - what happens if it fails?

So I have been denied an upgrade for the first time on AY. Actually, I requested an upgrade for the girlfriend, I am already in C on this flight. The flight is 5weeks from now, and it is AY69 to HKG, so I am not too surprised about this. Instead she have been put on waitlist for upgrade.

I guess waitlist is AYs way of saying "we might sell all the seats, but if we don't we will get back to you and do the upgrade". Fair enough, but since they took my upgrade vouchers just for putting her on the witlist, I wonder what will happen if they can't do the upgrade? Are my vouchers gone?

You'll get your voucher back if no upgrade.

OCT/NOV is fair season in HK and CAN so there is possibility that all business seats will be sold but just keep your fingers crossed.

So if the upgrade doesn't go through then it can only clear upon check-in, or can they also go through between now and your date of departure?

You'll get your voucher back if no upgrade.

OCT/NOV is fair season in HK and CAN so there is possibility that all business seats will be sold but just keep your fingers crossed.

I am flying to HKG tonight, it seems that the business class has only two vacant seats (out of 42).

So if the upgrade doesn't go through then it can only clear upon check-in, or can they also go through between now and your date of departure?

I asked AY+ servicecentre: will I know first at check-in and they said "a few days before departure we will go over the booking situation and let you know via mail". My take on this is that they might even wait until the 48H limit have passed (the time limit when gold and plats have guaranteed seats) and then expedite the waitlist. I got the feeling this work is done by the service centre, but I am not sure if they clear the waitlist at some point, or if it is accessible for check-in personnel aswell.

I am flying to HKG tonight, it seems that the business class has only two vacant seats (out of 42).
Thanks for that info, even though it means that there is quite a high demand. Hehe, I am happy for AY, latest press statement said demand in C have been weaker than expected :D
My flight has 16 free seats in C at this moment, but that is clearly below avg load factor, so I expect my flight to get as full as yours.

Even on check-in, Finnair might say they don't have any free=upgrade seats for you. Still, once they asked me before boarding to the gate and game me the upgrade, second time even I had already made my self "conformable" on economy seat, they came and took me to the business (propably someone had blacked out in the toiled and was unable to arrive to the gate ;-), Anyway, Finnair knows just before the departure for sure, how many free seats they have. They always have no-shows/flexible ticket passangers.

Were you on upgrade wait-list those times? (and not given an op-up, I mean)

If so, then it seems like the waitlist is not cleared until take-off, and that gate personnel can and will access it, as a routine. That's good.

I am flying to HKG tonight, it seems that the business class has only two vacant seats (out of 42).

OK, actually there were no vacant seats, not in business, nor in economy (as far as I could see).

Were you on upgrade wait-list those times? (and not given an op-up, I mean)

Yes, I was on waiting list.

So I've applied for an upgrade 16th November on CPH-HEL (AY0662) and HEL-JFK (AY0005), and got the following reply from AY:

"Hi Kjersti

Thank you for contacting Finnair Plus.

Unfortunately there are no business class seats currently available on your chosen flight (Copenhagen-Helsinki-New York), but we have placed you on the waiting list. We shall advise you by e-mail if a business class seat is confirmed for you before departure. Otherwise your request will be settled no later than at check-in time. If no seat in business class can be confirmed, then the charge of 45 000 points will be refunded to your Finnair Plus account.

Have a nice day!

Best wishes

Finnair Customer Care Center"

Don't hold any status with AY anymore. What are my chances really? The only reason why I made a booking with AY and not SK (which offer directflights CPH-EWR), was that I had some points to burn.... Can anyone tell me how the load looks like on these flights? Thank you :)

The waiting list is based on quequeing and the tier level.
If there are pax having a higher tier level than you, they will get the upgrade seat. If only basic tier level pax queueing, the first in queue will get the upgrade seat, if available.

The waiting list is based on quequeing and the tier level.
If there are pax having a higher tier level than you, they will get the upgrade seat. If only basic tier level pax queueing, the first in queue will get the upgrade seat, if available.

As much as we all would like this to be the real situation, unfortunately it's not. AY upgrade priority (both paid=points/vouchers + unlikely operational ones) are based also on the fare bucket of the coach ticket one is flying (and possibly trying to upgrade).

As I was the starter of this thread I might post back on what hapened.

Yes, as predicted yesterday's AY69 was completeley full in C, probably due to the fair season. So the upgrade request was denied. My vouchers have already been re-credited to my account, so that is all well and exactly as told above in this thread.
2 other pieces of information that might be interesting:

1. The checkin operator said that due to my platina status, my upgrade request was prioritized and that no one else was ahead of me. This was also true even if the request was not for myself but for a family member travelling with me. He also said that there was a long waitlist. I obviously don't know who else was on the list but FF-status do seem to have some effect in how upgrades are processed.

2. My partner was given priority tags on her luggage, and it also seems like the seat next to her was blocked. This can just be a coincidence, but I wonder if AY have started to block seat next to elites if space allows? (At checkin at NRT 3 weeks ago I was specifically told "the seat next to you will be empty on this flight, enjoy!") I have not experienced this with AY before. The plane was very full in Y aswell, and she had empty seat on both legs so I am leaning towards a undocumented perc of platina status.

I have had many times a blocked empty seat even the plain had been totally full. It is a nice compliment.
Still in some other times it has not been notified.
Seem to be up to the staff who does the seating on the plain and/or the check-in staff.

I'm flying AY069 tomorrow monday having asked upgrade which has not been confirmed yet. Hoping some business no-shows and nobody else having Platinum in the upgrade queue.

The Customer Service told me that they are unable to see the waiting list even they for sure have been able to do that earlier. I asked the service guy is she not able to see that or is she not allowed to tell that. She said she could not see.

As much as we all would like this to be the real situation, unfortunately it's not. AY upgrade priority (both paid=points/vouchers + unlikely operational ones) are based also on the fare bucket of the coach ticket one is flying (and possibly trying to upgrade).

Called to Finnair Customer Center today and asked the prioritation process:
- ticket fare class has no impact (Y and N tickest have same priority)
- no difference if upgrade made with vouchers or tier points
- tier matters (platinum goes first...)
- when 2 same tier level on waiting list
- AY Platinum goes first over other OW platinum cards
- the first in line will get the seat

So I just got the upgrade confirmed. Happy happy Monday :D

Called to Finnair Customer Center today and asked the prioritation process:
- ticket fare class has no impact (Y and N tickest have same priority)
- no difference if upgrade made with vouchers or tier points
- tier matters (platinum goes first...)
- when 2 same tier level on waiting list
- AY Platinum goes first over other OW platinum cards
- the first in line will get the seat

Excellent info Laajo! Thanks for posting!

Will I have lounge access, u know?


FINNAIR - AY 662
WED 16NOV COPENHAGEN DK HELSINKI FI 0855 1130
NON STOP KASTRUP HELSINKI VANTAA
EQUIPMENT: AIRBUS INDUSTRIE A320-100/200
SEAT 01A CONFIRMED
RESERVATION CONFIRMED - F BUSINESS
AY FREQUENT FLYER AYXXXXXX/UPGR-X
MS(ADT)

FINNAIR - AY 5
WED 16NOV HELSINKI FI NEW YORK NY 1410 1555
NON STOP HELSINKI VANTAA JOHN F KENNEDY
EQUIPMENT: AIRBUS INDUSTRIE A330-300
SEAT 03A CONFIRMED
RESERVATION CONFIRMED - F BUSINESS
AY FREQUENT FLYER AYXXXXXXX/UPGR-XXXXXX
MS(ADT)

yes, business class ticket will give you lounge access, it doesn't matter it was an upgrade.

Thanks Arahlen :)

So I just got the upgrade confirmed. Happy happy Monday :D

I am a little curoius to exactly when in time you got the message.
My theory is that they will evaluta the waitlist when it it less than 48 hours to take off (as this is the deadline for elites to be guranteed a seat even if the plane is sold out)

Called to Finnair Customer Center today and asked the prioritation process:
- ticket fare class has no impact (Y and N tickest have same priority)


That's the public bull***t they have been telling for years, you can for sure believe it if it makes you feel better :)

Customer center folks have very little, if any, insight to actual operations at the airport and the above might well be true for upgrades which are handled by the Plus center prior to the flight moves over for airport control.

cheers

That's the public bull***t they have been telling for years, you can for sure believe it if it makes you feel better :)

Customer center folks have very little, if any, insight to actual operations at the airport and the above might well be true for upgrades which are handled by the Plus center prior to the flight moves over for airport control.

cheers

Do you have some inside info or experience that can tell us in which other factors play a part of prioritization?


What Laajo told it otherwise consistent with my experiences. Tier level and time on waitlist seems to be major part of prio. The actual discussion with the check in person I had at check in for first leg was "oh, I see you are still on waitlist, let me see if I can fix that right now. Your card should do the trick. No there are no seats available. But I can assure you you are first in line, if a seat opens up you will get it. the situation is 0/0"
(no explanation for the last statement, but I assumed it was shown on the upgrade-screen telling him "no-one with higher prio and no seats avail". Anyone here with experience with check in system who knows?)

So I have a hard time figuring out why he would be lying about the waitlist as a part of a PR Bull program...
the ticket was O-class (deep discount econ), request for upgrade was made late (less than 3weeks before take off, so not a good queuenumber), boarding seq# 8. As I was also told "many people are on the waitlist", I can only figure that plat tier have a strong part in the prio of upgrades.

In the CX-forum they have managed to figure out the exact pecking order for upgrades, and that is very good information to know, so please post any knowledge that can indicate what factors can/will influence upgrade prio!

That's the public bull***t they have been telling for years, you can for sure believe it if it makes you feel better

Customer center folks have very little, if any, insight to actual operations at the airport and the above might well be true for upgrades which are handled by the Plus center prior to the flight moves over for airport control.
------------------------
Hi NoWindowSeat,

I'm wondering what kind experiencies you have had, that makes you this suspicious, having negative attitude towards Finnair Customer Service = Plus Center.
I have been Platinum member for appr 10 year and have not got the same impression as you have.

What is true is that the Service Center does not always know, still they are trained to make an additional call, and ask. This happend also the time I was asking them about the prioritation. The lady did not know for sure and called to operations staff and came back with the answer. I have no doubt why this info would not be true.

The Plus Center as well as airport counter staff has the information about how many pax there are in waiting list. As you said, they don't necessary have the updated info about the reservation. Therefore they call to the operations and checks that situation, before they actually upgrade you at the airport. This happened to me 14th Nov with flight 069. There were 2 pax at the waiting list, 2 free business seats, both of us got upgraded, the staff told me.
Also what MissKjesti wrote, Plus Center has also called me or mailed me about giving the upgrade some days before take-off. It is possible.

Everybody on this site is entitled to take out just that information and interpret that in a way that is suitable for her/his state of mind.

Great flying related experiencies for everybody!

Departing from Singapore 26 Oct AY082. Asked for an upgrade to business. Got an mail on friday confirming the updgrade.
Thank you Finnair.

Just to make it 100% clear as my comment is clearly creating some confusion and questions from fellow AY elites: when you guys are talking about the Plus Center upgrades with points/vouchers that's another story (anyone without status and flying on expensive coach ticket + with points/vouchers and contacting AY Plus for upgrades must not me that common pax type in the first place..)

But when you talk about op-ups at the airport it's totally different story, there the coach fare code plays a major role, this has been admitted by AY directly some years ago...maybe they have officially changed this, I haven't flown AY long w/o confirmed J seat in years and I don't really care anymore that much what they do...I've taken most of my business elsewhere. Again, to me the points/voucher things are not "real upgrades" in that sense, people are paying with hard earned points/vouchers to get those..cannot be compared to op-ups which really tell how an airiline values their customers.

Aha, I think we were strictly talking about the points/voucher upgrades as the AY opups are so rare... AY seems to almost never overbook Y.

I think we were also discusing point/voucher upgrades that happens at the gate, and they are also not op-ups. Maybe we confused that part, but a waitlisted points/voucher upgrade can be handled at the gate (or even after boarding, Laajo told us).

So not only AY plus center but also the gates have routine procedures for handling waitlisted points/voucher upgrades. And as the points/voucher upgrades generate some kind of revenue they ofcourse handles these before any op-up. Actually points/voucher upgrades might be a big reason to why op-ups "never" happens.


As for an op-up then surely fare bucket will be a part of the decision, as they are giving away a free upgrade, and not even getting the "revenue" from points deduction.
They might also just bump someone to the next flight and pay the penalties for that. I have seen gate personel ask for someone to freely wait for next asian flight as Y was overbooked, and I don't think C was full. ( but it was along time ago, I might remeber it wrong)

I've requested upgrades for March flight 3 of my family members 1 month ago, points were taken from the account, but it still shows waitlist. The flight HEL-PEK in question shows 9 seats available in all business classes (I D J C)
Does that mean there's good chances for upgrade clearing or not really? I am Gold with Finnair, would calling them and asking when could I get my upgrade, be of any use?

I've requested upgrades for March flight 3 of my family members 1 month ago, points were taken from the account, but it still shows waitlist. The flight HEL-PEK in question shows 9 seats available in all business classes (I D J C)
Does that mean there's good chances for upgrade clearing or not really? I am Gold with Finnair, would calling them and asking when could I get my upgrade, be of any use?

If you were put on waitlist, that means that were not any seats available in the upgrade-quota (F ?), and that they will wait and see how sales goes. So calling in at this stage will probably not change anything. Not until a few days before flight ( or up until minutes be fore flight) they will re-evaluated waitlist and start to "give away" seats from the paid qouta (CDIJ).
Gold will give you some advantage in the waitlist priority, but I am not sure what they will do if they have 2 seats avilable (and you need 3).

I´d rather say that they review the waitinglist quite frequantly.
I´ve had to wait 3 days to have an upgrade confirmed for a flight two weeks later recently.
At another occasion I had to wait 12 days to have confirmation for a flight 8 weeks later.

I´d rather say that they review the waitinglist quite frequantly.
I´ve had to wait 3 days to have an upgrade confirmed for a flight two weeks later recently.
At another occasion I had to wait 12 days to have confirmation for a flight 8 weeks later.

It is actually quite hard to see a pattern here I think. I have had all of the following experiences as AY plat:
- immediate upgrade when I phone in the request (almost always, even if the F quota is full)
- immediate upgrade even though requesting to upgrade three passengers (i.e. over the F quota I think?)
- upgrade confirmed 3 days to two weeks later (rare)
- upgrade confirmed at check in (once)
- upgrade confirmed during the call when I call Plus again before the flight and expres my worry

Most importantly, I always upgrade my AY flights and have NEVER been denied the upgrade so far (in about 10 years). I do try to upgrade as far in advance as possible.

Most importantly, I always upgrade my AY flights and have NEVER been denied the upgrade so far (in about 10 years). I do try to upgrade as far in advance as possible.

Me neither, and like you, I have upgraded a lot over the years.

One experience worth mentioning, I was travelling with another Plat member from BCN (I think, not that it matters here) and I had my upgrade confirmed earlier (I usually upgrade via email request so cannot comment how "immediate" they are..) and my friend was waitlisting until the departure...he asked about the upgrade both from Plus Service and later at the check-in prior to departure..it didn't clear and in the end J had empty seats..not many but definitely more than 1 or 2..maybe they don't handle upgrades that efficiently at outstations with oursourced staff etc...

I am flying HEL - ICN in a couple of weeks. I am OW Emerald (BA Gold).
Sadly my company will only fly me economy, so looking at ways I could upgrade.
It seems this thread is mainly talking about upgrading using points/vouchers, which is only possible for Finnair Plus members.
Also it seems the chances of an Op-up are extremely remote, even with status.
So do Finnair offer cash upgrades at check-in?

Also it seems the chances of an Op-up are extremely remote, even with status.

I was travelling in J to BKK. I was seated already and listening to some bloke at the door complaining to the purser about his experience with finnair. I think he was connecting from somewhere. In any case he was complaining and saying that this was his first time flying with finnair and he didn't get very good impression. He was asking that maybe finnair could compensate somehow. The guy sounded really sad and kind of desperate. Not angry or demanding at all. The purser asked if he had any status but he didn't because this was his "first time flying" (yeah, earlier it was only first time with finnair). Purser was a bit shocked and said the dude could take one of the free J seats.

You try the same =)

...
So do Finnair offer cash upgrades at check-in?

No

Is it somehow possible to get business class award availability and upgrade availability info for AY flights before I actually hold enough points/vouchers for them? I have no info on the website and through Expert Flyer I can only get X class (redemption in Y) availability, not business availability (U class?) for any AY flights even months from now. The same goes for the QF booking tool. The AY tool does not let me proceed without enough miles. I would, however, like to get advance information since I would like to book a flight for which my upgrade (will be earned through a status match in the beginning of May) will probably clear without problems. Should I simply call AY customer service? I have not had any really good experience with them so far.

Is it somehow possible to get business class award availability and upgrade availability info for AY flights before I actually hold enough points/vouchers for them? I have no info on the website and through Expert Flyer I can only get X class (redemption in Y) availability, not business availability (U class?) for any AY flights even months from now. The same goes for the QF booking tool. The AY tool does not let me proceed without enough miles. I would, however, like to get advance information since I would like to book a flight for which my upgrade (will be earned through a status match in the beginning of May) will probably clear without problems. Should I simply call AY customer service? I have not had any really good experience with them so far.

Just call them, they will tell you whether there's availability. Heck, last autumn a friend upgraded himself and his wife with points HEL-JFK even though he didn't have exactly enough points on his account at the time. (The flight to JFK brought in the remaining points.) In effect, he borrowed points from the AY+. I am sure all this depends on the CS agent, how well you explain your case ("My wife will kill me if I upgrade just myself.") etc. And, as is always the case, if you at first fail, try again.

Just call them, they will tell you whether there's availability. Heck, last autumn a friend upgraded himself and his wife with points HEL-JFK even though he didn't have exactly enough points on his account at the time. (The flight to JFK brought in the remaining points.) In effect, he borrowed points from the AY+. I am sure all this depends on the CS agent, how well you explain your case ("My wife will kill me if I upgrade just myself.") etc. And, as is always the case, if you at first fail, try again.

Just a clarification: I am not advising you to request upgrade when you don't have enough points. But availability is easy to check. As has often been mentioned here, upgrade availability is usually very good, if you are acting well ahead of time.

Just call them, they will tell you whether there's availability. Heck, last autumn a friend upgraded himself and his wife with points HEL-JFK even though he didn't have exactly enough points on his account at the time. (The flight to JFK brought in the remaining points.) In effect, he borrowed points from the AY+. I am sure all this depends on the CS agent, how well you explain your case ("My wife will kill me if I upgrade just myself.") etc. And, as is always the case, if you at first fail, try again.

Just a clarification: I am not advising you to request upgrade when you don't have enough points. But availability is easy to check. As has often been mentioned here, upgrade availability is usually very good, if you are acting well ahead of time.

Thank you, I will do so. As I actually would like to book AY095 for the beginning of December I hope there will be upgrade availability in May, when I get my certificate. Could you please confirm that even an Economy Special (O class) fare is still upgradeable?

Thank you, I will do so. As I actually would like to book AY095 for the beginning of December I hope there will be upgrade availability in May, when I get my certificate. Could you please confirm that even an Economy Special (O class) fare is still upgradeable?

BKK is relatively light route for paid J traffic so upgrade chances are better than let's say on NRT/PVG/PEK/SIN etc..

Thank you, I will do so. As I actually would like to book AY095 for the beginning of December I hope there will be upgrade availability in May, when I get my certificate. Could you please confirm that even an Economy Special (O class) fare is still upgradeable?

All paid fares can be upgraded. This spring I have upgraded both NRT and PEK from Economy Special.

All paid fares can be upgraded. This spring I have upgraded both NRT and PEK from Economy Special.

That's one of the few points where AY shines!

Just call them, they will tell you whether there's availability. Heck, last autumn a friend upgraded himself and his wife with points HEL-JFK even though he didn't have exactly enough points on his account at the time. (The flight to JFK brought in the remaining points.) In effect, he borrowed points from the AY+. I am sure all this depends on the CS agent, how well you explain your case ("My wife will kill me if I upgrade just myself.") etc. And, as is always the case, if you at first fail, try again.

Just an update and a question: I subscribed for ExpertFlyer to check some fare rules and found that even though they do not list F class as an upgrade/award class for AY, it can actually be accessed if I request it specifically. Has anyone tried wether it is a reliable indicator if upgrades will clear immediately or not?