TalkBoard Topics - Motion Passed: Add SIXT Car Rental forum

Moved by SkiAdcock and seconded by nsx:

The TalkBoard recommends to the Community Director the creation of a Forum for SIXT Car Rental (aka, “SIXT”) and relocation of appropriate threads from other forums once created.

This vote will close on Oct 19, 11 at 2:25 PM Pacific Time or after all TalkBoard members have registered their vote, whichever comes first.

Per the TalkBoard Guidelines:

A motion shall pass if the ratio of 'yes' votes of TalkBoard members to 'no' votes is at least 2 to 1 and the 'yes' vote count is a majority of the entire TalkBoard. (Since the TalkBoard has 9 members, this means 6 'yes' votes in most cases, 5 'yes' votes if 2 or more members fail to vote 'yes' or 'no'.)

The purpose of posting voting topics in the public TalkBoard Topics forum is to solicit member feedback on any motions that are up for a vote and to allow for comments after a vote is made. It is at the sole discretion of the individual TalkBoard members whether they choose to post in the public discussion thread, there being no requirement to do so.

Members should feel free to discuss the pros and cons in this thread.

Edited to add:

Motion passes 9-0.

Voting yes: bhatnasx, Cholula, jackal, lucky9876coins, Markie, nsx, SkiAdcock, Spiff, UA_Flyer

I would indeed like to see a dedicated Sixt Car Rental forum here on FT.

Numerous FTers hold status card with Sixt and Sixt seems to be very "frequent flyer' oriented since it continuously matches Elite cards from various ailrines FFP to its own program.

A significant number of thread is the current "other car rental companies" are about Sixt.

Moreover, Sixt has representatives who regularly post on FT.

I would absolutely support a separate forum for Sixt. I've been very impressed by their high quality customer service -- from the experience in the rental and to their having dedicated representatives on FT. I think the FT community would highly benefit from having a place to discuss Sixt deals, the awards/status program, their fleet (which IMHO is the best in the business) and a dedicated place to engage with the Sixt team.

I support the creation of a new forum as well. As said before the commitment of the Sixt team to Flyertalk is significant.

There are often good deals to find but they are hardly noticed as they are now in this sub forum.

My full support- whatever that matters:D

I didnt find any proposal thread or due diligence on this? Does that mean that TB finally are prepared to develop FT in this manner themselves and has done the homework? In that case^ Also would TBers care to share the background for this?

I didnt find any proposal thread or due diligence on this? Does that mean that TB finally are prepared to develop FT in this manner themselves and has done the homework? In that case^ Also would TBers care to share the background for this?

Sure thing. TB receives suggestions from members and from our Community Director. In this case it was the latter. She had noticed a large number of SIXT threads and asked the TB to consider whether a new forum was warranted. Once we did that, it appeared to me that there was no need to delay action.

In summary, you can direct your thanks to SanDiego1K, who continues to amaze me. Although it would be hard to top her feat of populating the brand-new LAN forum with pages and pages of threads in less than 3 hours.

In summary, you can direct your thanks to SanDiego1K, who continues to amaze me. Although it would be hard to top her feat of populating the brand-new LAN forum with pages and pages of threads in less than 3 hours.

SanDiego1k^

Great initiative. Really appreciate it.

Im just afraid that based on TBs conservative past, this wont pass without an answer to TBs own guidelines- which - I must say- have been agressively countered to anyone hinting on new forums.

I hope Im proven wrong@:-)

Im just afraid that based on TBs conservative past, this wont pass without an answer to TBs own guidelines- which - I must say- have been agressively countered to anyone hinting on new forums.

Although I prefer members to compile answers to the forum creation criteria before presenting a request to TB, we can also look at the criteria ourselves. For an obvious need, this evaluation will be simple and fast. Since I seconded this proposal, you know where I stand on it.

^

I guess its a deal done- probably discussed on TB internal forum.

In that case, roll on@:-)

^

I guess its a deal done- probably discussed on TB internal forum.

In that case, roll on@:-)

I've never heard of or even seen this company -- why bother.

+1 for this forum

Yes. Please do it.

Yes..

I've never heard of or even seen this company -- why bother.

Sixt is one of Europe's largest car rental companies. They have more than 3500 service stations in over 80 countries. From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixt)

As I said earlier I think this is a great idea. Although a lot of people on FT who travel mainly in the US might not know it, as it is only marginally active in the US. It is though truly is a global company and a lot of FTers use it as well when going abroad, especially in Europe. Also take in mind that a large portion of FTers is from Europe and for them this could be a very interesting forum to use.

In my opinion this could also aid to get more new people from outside the US interested in the Flyertalk fora.

Definitely. Sixt is a preferred option for many in Europe and beyond where they operate. A dedicated forum would help.

Im just afraid that based on TBs conservative past, this wont pass without an answer to TBs own guidelines- which - I must say- have been agressively countered to anyone hinting on new forums.



No, based on TB's past this will be approved by an overwhelming vote, no matter what it requires when ordinary members ask for a forum.

Within a 10 day period, in March-April 2008, TB unanimously approved a Turkish Airlines and a Virgin America Airlines Forum as well as approving a Qatar Airlines Forum by an 8-1 vote.

This was especially remarkable because it had shot down the Virgin American proposal by a 5-3-1 vote in January.

What all three forums had in common is that Randy, not ordinary members, had requested the forums.

yes, that would be welcomed^

No, based on TB's past this will be approved by an overwhelming vote, no matter what it requires when ordinary members ask for a forum.

Within a 10 day period, in March-April 2008, TB unanimously approved a Turkish Airlines and a Virgin America Airlines Forum as well as approving a Qatar Airlines Forum by an 8-1 vote.

This was especially remarkable because it had shot down the Virgin American proposal by a 5-3-1 vote in January.

What all three forums had in common is that Randy, not ordinary members, had requested the forums.

This is good news. Im all for new forums, give them a chance and rather close them if they fail. If RP, CD, TB, mods or members suggest, doesnt matter. But I think its a minimum that TB take responsibility to share the background when you see how rigid they throw this at contributing members who come here to propose.

As they said in CCCP: All are equal- but some are more equal:D

+1 for a dedicated Sixt Board

Yes! ^

Yes. Oui. Si.

I am also a supporter of a SIXT sub-forum. They are a serious competitor in Europe and have (had) agreements in place with UA and other airlines for elite status and mileage earning and discussion of promotions and other topics related would be a valuable asset to FlyerTalk.

I can understand FT'ers not voting "yes" if this is not of interest to them, but what reason could anyone have for voting "no"? I'm just curious.

Plus 1 from me ^

Sixt is a lesson for the other pretenders in providing value for money, top drawer customer service and valuable interaction with social media such as FT.

I am a big fan of the German giants. Plus they have the coolest office at the MIA car rental center

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/302468_219094798155116_100001637926747_635674_9517 57376_n.jpg

^ My car hire company of choice in Europe.

If for no other reason than the responsiveness of the multiple company reps and the responsiveness of the reps I think SIXT should get their own forum

Easy, folks. Let's follow precedents established in the LAN Forum decision:

1) Submit proposal only after SIXT becomes the largest car rental company in Europe.
2) Proposal will be rejected.
3) After a year waiting period, submit a 2nd proposal, which will be accepted.

:p

+1. have used them in the past and would appreciate the forum!

No, based on TB's past this will be approved by an overwhelming vote, no matter what it requires when ordinary members ask for a forum.

Within a 10 day period, in March-April 2008, TB unanimously approved a Turkish Airlines and a Virgin America Airlines Forum as well as approving a Qatar Airlines Forum by an 8-1 vote.

This was especially remarkable because it had shot down the Virgin American proposal by a 5-3-1 vote in January.

What all three forums had in common is that Randy, not ordinary members, had requested the forums.

Dovster, I respect you in more ways than one (although perhaps I shouldn't in some of those ways ;)), but I think you're being exceedingly unfair here.

For one, a distinct minority of the TalkBoard consists of members present at the time referenced above.

Two, Randy's influence and any cult following he had has long since left the TalkBoard. I respect Carol immensely (for much the same reasons as nsx mentioned above), but we are most certainly not her cadre of "yes men." I know I would have no problem opposing any of her suggestions if I did not believe it was in the best interest of the FlyerTalk community, and I do not doubt the same is the case for the vast majority, if not the entire, rest of the TalkBoard.

The fact that the Sixt forum may seem like a no-brainer to many, most, or all of the TalkBoard has no relation to the fact that it was suggested by Carol.

If for no other reason than the responsiveness of the multiple company reps and the responsiveness of the reps I think SIXT should get their own forum

This is one of the strongest factors influencing my decision on this matter.

Dovster, I respect you in more ways than one (although perhaps I shouldn't in some of those ways ;)), but I think you're being exceedingly unfair here.

(snip)

The fact that the Sixt forum may seem like a no-brainer to many, most, or all of the TalkBoard has no relation to the fact that it was suggested by Carol.


Perhaps not, but I have a feeling that this particular forum will be approved even without members doing what is outlined in the first sticky on this forum:

If you want to suggest a new forum or have other suggestions for TalkBoard consideration, it would be very helpful if you can demonstrate - with some supporting evidence - why you think there is a need for that new forum or other change to FlyerTalk.

This can be shown by, among other things, any or all of the following:

- existing threads which would be best suited in your proposed forum.

- describing a need which is not being met for a group of Flyertalk members by the existing forums.

- other relevant arguments showing why Flyertalk would be improved by the addition of this forum or change.

Do not take this to mean that I am opposed to a Sixt Forum. I am not. In fact, I am a Sixt lifetime Platinum and have been since July 05. I am also about to have my first Sixt rental ever.

(If that seems contradictory, just click on this thread which I started. (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/other-car-rental-programs-partners-ie-alamo-enterprise-sixt/445388-sixt-instant-status.html))

It also does not mean that I favor the criteria I quoted. I don't. It simply means that a request from Randy was treated by TB much differently than one from any other member and I would not be at all surprised to find that the same is true with a request from Carol.

Perhaps a better way to handle this is to do some housekeeping on the Car Rental Programs section.

At current, it has the following forums:

Avis
Budget
Dollar
Hertz
National
Thrifty
Other Car Rental Programs/Partners (ie. Alamo, Enterprise, Sixt)

National and Alamo, however, are the same company. They may have different programs but they have the same ownership and, in many cases, share the same facilities.

It would certainly make sense to take Alamo out of the "Other" forum and put it in National's. (There are already many Alamo posts in the National forum.)

Then, if you establish the Sixt Forum, the "Other" forum will be left with only one major company, Enterprise. Enterprise certainly deserves its own forum as much as Budget, Dollar, Thrifty, or Sixt, so why not give it one?

The "Other" forum would be left to handle the minor rental agencies that most of us have never heard of anyhow.

Perhaps not, but I have a feeling that this particular forum will be approved even without members doing what is outlined in the first sticky on this forum:

(snip)

It simply means that a request from Randy was treated by TB much differently than one from any other member and I would not be at all surprised to find that the same is true with a request from Carol.

It's not my place (and indeed, it's even forbidden) for me to quote others' posts in the private TalkBoard forum, but I can and will say that the three points listed in your post above were addressed to the satisfaction of at least the moving and seconding members of this motion as well as to me.

Perhaps a better way to handle this is to do some housekeeping on the Car Rental Programs section.

I can't say I entirely disagree with the premise of your idea.

Why don't you suggest it in another thread in the TalkBoard Topics forum? Perhaps if the idea is brought up by you, it'll go farther than when I brought it up... ;)

I can't say I entirely disagree with the premise of your idea.

Why don't you suggest it in another thread in the TalkBoard Topics forum? Perhaps if the idea is brought up by you, it'll go farther than when I brought it up... ;)

I guess you should have asked Carol to recommend to TalkBoard that it recommend to Carol to do this. :D

National and Alamo, however, are the same company. They may have different programs but they have the same ownership and, in many cases, share the same facilities.

It would certainly make sense to take Alamo out of the "Other" forum and put it in National's. (There are already many Alamo posts in the National forum.)

I thought about this, but the Emerald Club makes National different in ways that matter to FTers. So there is different content in the two forums.

For Dollar and Thrifty, you might have a better case.

I thought about this, but the Emerald Club makes National different in ways that matter to FTers. So there is different content in the two forums.

For Dollar and Thrifty, you might have a better case.

I am not familiar with Dollar and Thrifty. Are they under the same ownership?

As far as the Emerald Club is concerned, you are right -- there is a difference between National and Alamo. Still, we have seen on any forum, be it airline, hotel, or car rental, that most of the threads are not really about the programs.

(If that was the crucial ingredient, you would not be considering a Sixt Forum; the program is a simple one and not too much can be written about it.)

Instead, the posts concern service, locations, upgrades, etc, and here Alamo and National differ very little from each other.

Instead, the posts concern service, locations, upgrades, etc, and here Alamo and National differ very little from each other.

I have found the service of these two more different than National differs from Avis. YMMV.

I love Sixt and use them from time to time, their service in Italy has been second to none. I would love a dedicated forum when I'm looking for discounts, etc.

I am not familiar with Dollar and Thrifty. Are they under the same ownership?

Yes, and they're operated together and practically identically in most locations, much moreso than even National/Alamo/Enterprise (all one company, Enterprise Holdings) or Avis/Budget (one company, Avis Budget Group) or Hertz/Advantage (one company, Hertz Global Holdings), but we're now getting OT for this thread.

Yes, and they're operated together and practically identically in most locations, much moreso than even National/Alamo/Enterprise (all one company, Enterprise Holdings) or Avis/Budget (one company, Avis Budget Group) or Hertz/Advantage (one company, Hertz Global Holdings), but we're now getting OT for this thread.

Are we really getting OT for this thread? It would seem to me that instead of simply establishing a Sixt Forum, TalkBoard would do better to consider the whole car rental section and re-do it in a more logical manner.

If many National/Alamo/Enterprise posts concern the same issues (eg: "I found the line at Alamo in PBI to be too long, why don't they put on more staff?") then it would make more sense to combine those forums.

The same is true of Avis/Budget or Hertz/Advantage or Dollar/Thrifty. Of course, if these companies do not use the same facilities (or rarely do) and there is no connection between them other than the shared ownership, that would be a different matter.

Yes, for a separate forum for Sixt. And while you're at it, Alamo and Enterprise should either be in their own forums or rolled into National.

Yes please

I vote yes...what great customer service and very reasonable. We used them last month for about 10 days to go from Madrid to Seville by way of Lisbon. Not only did they have the lowest quote (after much research using many, many discount codes) but there were no dropoff charges. Super efficient and professional...

As far as the Emerald Club is concerned, you are right -- there is a difference between National and Alamo. Still, we have seen on any forum, be it airline, hotel, or car rental, that most of the threads are not really about the programs.

(If that was the crucial ingredient, you would not be considering a Sixt Forum; the program is a simple one and not too much can be written about it.)

Instead, the posts concern service, locations, upgrades, etc, and here Alamo and National differ very little from each other.

Interestingly enough, the posts on this thread support what I said. While almost all favor having a Sixt Forum, none of them discussed its loyalty program. Instead, they discussed other factors:


I would absolutely support a separate forum for Sixt. I've been very impressed by their high quality customer service -- from the experience in the rental and to their having dedicated representatives on FT.

I support the creation of a new forum as well. As said before the commitment of the Sixt team to Flyertalk is significant.



[I]Sixt is one of Europe's largest car rental companies. They have more than 3500 service stations in over 80 countries[/URL]



Plus 1 from me ^



If for no other reason than the responsiveness of the multiple company reps and the responsiveness of the reps I think SIXT should get their own forum

I am not saying this as an objection to having a Sixt Forum. I see absolutely nothing wrong in discussing (pro or con) aspects of a company other than its loyalty program. Indeed, if posters were to restrict themselves to an uncomplicated program like Sixt's, they would not have much to say.

I am only pointing this out as evidence that forums which combine companies with the same ownership, locations, staff, etc, is the logical way to proceed -- even if they have different loyalty programs.

Interestingly enough, the posts on this thread support what I said. While almost all favor having a Sixt Forum, none of them discussed its loyalty program. Instead, they discussed other factors.

I am not saying this as an objection to having a Sixt Forum. I see absolutely nothing wrong in discussing (pro or con) aspects of a company other than its loyalty program. Indeed, if posters were to restrict themselves to an uncomplicated program like Sixt's, they would not have much to say.

I am only pointing this out as evidence that forums which combine companies with the same ownership, locations, staff, etc, is the logical way to proceed -- even if they have different loyalty programs.

I was first to answer this thread and here is what I wrote :
I would indeed like to see a dedicated Sixt Car Rental forum here on FT.

Numerous FTers hold status card with Sixt and Sixt seems to be very "frequent flyer' oriented since it continuously matches Elite cards from various ailrines FFP to its own program.

I was first to answer this thread and here is what I wrote :

While there is certainly nothing wrong with your post, you did not really discuss the Sixt loyalty program other than to:

1. Say it has one.
2. Say it gives away status.

There is, in truth, little more that could be said about it.

To me, at least, that is not a problem. If the proposed forum will make it easier to find out about Sixt's service in Dusseldorf or what kind of upgrades are generally given in Munich, it will be helpful to our members.

The same, however, would be true of the merged forums that I suggested.

Yes, please.

Yes for a fourm. Info is difficult to locate in the US.

+1 for the SIXT forum

Yes-nothing but good experiences in Europe

Definitely would like to see Sixt on the forum. A reputable company and they've provided good services for my previous 4 rentals in Germany and my most recent one in SA (although they contract it out there). Plus their connections/perks with the major airline Frequent flier programs probably are of interest to many on the forum.

They're an excellent rental car agency, they offer loyalty "status" to anyone with reasonably legitimate status in other travel programs, and the status results in decent benefits: real upgrades (Merc E class upgraded from a Ford Mondeo - not bad!), discounts, and miles or points. I'd like to see them here because they have a lot of confusing discount plans, and I'm sure FT'ers would sort this out in a minute.

All of this being said, I suspect there wouldn't be a lot of action in this forum because they have a minimal footprint in the US and their counter service isn't meaningfully worse than anyone else - so what's to complain about?

Yes..

Yes, to Sixt. ^

I believe Alamo deserves their own forum as well

Yes, please make a Sixt car rental forum !!!

I just had a great experience at the Miami, FL sixt location. Reserved a $21 nissan sentra and was upgraded to a BMW x3 with my Sixt Platinum status!

amazingggg

Yes +1 from my side as well....have mostly good experience till now with Sixt.

Yes, a dedicated forum would be useful

Yes, a dedicated forum would be useful

How so?

Not that I disagree with you, but in a desire to help my fellow TalkBoard members understand why a Sixt forum would be useful so as to engender their support for this measure (not that any have necessarily expressed opposition to it), it would be nice if the utility for the forum were fleshed out a little bit more.

(A continuous stream of people just posting "Yes, please!" does not necessarily do a lot to sway the vote.)

Allow me to toss my ideas out into the ring, let me quote the Forum Creation Criteria as posted at the top of the TalkBoard Topics forum along with my preliminary thoughts on the matter and seek to draw out some discussion around these points:

1. Will the forum be (or is it now) beneficial to FlyerTalk? If it enhances the ability of a relatively substantial number of frequent travelers to locate information about and better understand the programs of one of the largest rental companies in Europe, then yes. How much of a current lack of understanding surrounds the available Sixt programs, though? On one hand, a review of their website seems to indicate a wide variety of available programs and status levels but a lack of clear explanation about what those programs and status levels mean and the differences between them. (I have no idea what Sixt Platinum did for me when I was comped it a few years ago, although I had no chance to use it as I did not travel to Europe that year.) On the other hand, several people have mentioned that Sixt's programs are simple, which may indicate not a lot of discussion is needed.

2. Will the new forum benefit a relationship with FlyerTalk? E.g., does the forum provide value for FT members, such as a friendly ear highly placed in the company? This is the single biggest item that inclines me to support the forum. We have a relatively large number of Sixt employees in management-level positions who openly participate on FlyerTalk. If nothing else, these folks will serve to keep discussion and assistance active and alive in a dedicated forum.

3. Is FT the best place to discuss this subject? As FlyerTalk seeks to grow and be of utility to a worldwide audience, unquestionably yes. And while there are other niche travel forums out there, car rental (while still the forgotten and/or red-headed stepchild of the travel industry) is a key component of travel, and we are and will remain the largest frequent-traveler discussion site on the Internet.

4. Is there a passionate following? This is essential in order to provide dedicated expert helpers to get questions answered. Many people above have expressed that yes, they would appreciate a forum. It remains to be seen whether there is a passionate following, but I strongly suspect the employee posters will help keep the forum alive and flowing with discussion. Note that lots of people posting that they support a Sixt forum because they had a pleasant experience is not necessarily indicative of a passionate following.

5. Is a critical mass of posts and readers anticipated or existing? We need adequate traffic to keep everyone visiting frequently. One living forum is more valuable than two mostly dead ones. See the answers to #2 and #4.

6. Is this the best place on FlyerTalk for this subject? This is the classification issue. The answer depends primarily on achieving and maintaining critical mass. It also depends on whether or where the discussion might (or does) occur in the absence of the forum. Were it not for the employee posters, I might suggest that no, it isn't, given the relatively small level of discussion about Sixt (relative to, say, Hertz). Again, though, see the answers to #2 and #4.

7. For proposals to split a forum, is the split expected to improve the signal to noise ratio? Why? Yes, as it will assist the Sixt employee posters to find and focus on answers to Sixt questions. Additionally, the content discussed in threads about Sixt rarely relates to the other discussion currently happening in the Other Car Rental Programs/Partners forum, both because of the significant differences between U.S. and European rental practices as well as Sixt's more specialized business model (targeting a slightly premium clientele with slightly more premium cars). Those of us more familiar with U.S. rental policies and procedures tend to find that discussions about Sixt are not really applicable to the majority of other discussion in the OCRP/P forum, and I rarely see the otherwise-common-in-the-car-rental-forum usernames posting in the Sixt threads. Moving Sixt to its own forum will help the signal-to-noise ratio of both forums.

Those of you who support the Sixt forum, please feel free to address any points I've raised above. :)

+1...

While preparing for overseas travel I tried to do research on foreign car rental agencies and there is a real shortage of information. TripAdvisor didn't have much, and info on SIXT was random and inconclusive. So yes, it would be helpful--though I don't know how much in terms of loyalty rewards/points/FT importance.

BTW I'm not new here, just logged in with FB so it's starting me over from scratch....post #1

I support.

At this time, I'm planning on voting yes on this forum.

Although I don't know much about the program, as their representatives are active posters on FlyerTalk and they are engaged with the FT Community, I'm supportive of giving them the opportunity to develop and grow their program, hopefully with the influence of FlyerTalk in mind, and I can see the value in a Sixt forum for members.

This does step away from the traditional requirments of forum creation, but at the end of the day, it's a judgement call & that's what we're elected to do.

I absolutely agree on the creation of the forum

^

Best car rental experience ever, in Grenoble, France. Great car, reasonable price, reasonable inspection upon return. Hope they do well!

I'd love to see a separate Sixt forum!

I think of Sixt as a company that rents C class Mercedes Benz' at reasonable rates. Yes to a forum!

Yes please

Yes please

I vote no... it's represented well enough under 'other programs'

Yes please

+1

I've never heard of or even seen this company -- why bother.
Sixt has way more locations than Thrifty and in more countries. I don't understand why "BobH hasn't heard of it" would have any relevance.

1. Will the forum be (or is it now) beneficial to FlyerTalk? [I]If it enhances the ability of a relatively substantial number of frequent travelers to locate information about and better understand the programs of one of the largest rental companies in Europe, then yes.
FT is the best site for information on travel providers. If we want information about other major car rental companies, we can go straight to the relevant forum. Having to mess about sifting through forums marked "Other ..." is an inconvenience which should be reserved for when we deal with tiny companies, not major industry players.

Yes
great company!

I would post, and I would also read this section. Thanks!

Yes, by all means!

I definitely support Sixt in the forum. I have rented from them before, and they are great!

Yes, I use them all the time

Yes +1

I would endorse the new forum...easier for rookies like me to locate the information. I've used them on a number of occasions over the years and find them to have better pricing in most cases. Also, I typically receive upgrades, even though I wouldn't be considered a "frequent renter." I've received upgrades even though the lower rental class that I'd reserved was available...no price difference.

I don't understand what someone's motivation would be to come to a thread such as this to say NO. Especially when your location suggests that you don't even have a Sixt station within 2000 miles.

It is a bit like writing to a newspaper to complain about a TV show that you didn't see.

Given that this thread is full of Sixt aficionados that would love to see a more orderly representation of Sixt in the forum. How about the NO argument gets turned on its head? If you want to say NO then you should be able to materially illustrate that the inclusion of Sixt on FT would negatively impact upon your otherwise carefree navigation of the FT website.

yes +1

I am in favor of a Sixt forum.

sissignore

I am also in favor of adding a Sixt forum. I use them frequently
in Europe.

yes please, I have found Sixt to be the best of all the car rental companies, for service, price,and above all courtesy.

First time I´m renting from them but I´m impressed: $55 2-day compact rental w/gps one-way FLL-MIA Oct 2011 incl tax

Motion passes 9-0.

Voting yes: bhatnasx, Cholula, jackal, lucky9876coins, Markie, nsx, SkiAdcock, Spiff, UA_Flyer

Motion passes 9-0.

Voting yes: bhatnasx, Cholula, jackal, lucky9876coins, Markie, nsx, SkiAdcock, Spiff, UA_Flyer

Gee, what a shock! We can only hope now that Carol will agree to it.

yes - why not - it's not as if we get charged per word....

Gee, what a shock! We can only hope now that Carol will agree to it.

I gave my reasoning for it earlier this thread.

If you're implying that all the TB members voted in favor soley due to SanDiego1k's recommendation that this be brought up, that's your opinion, but not the case for all the TB members.

I gave my reasoning for it earlier this thread.

If you're implying that all the TB members voted in favor soley due to SanDiego1k's recommendation that this be brought up, that's your opinion, but not the case for all the TB members.

It was never the case for all TB members. Even in the examples which I gave earlier (re Randy and the three forums), there were TB members whose history made it predictable that they would favor those forums if Randy had not asked for them.

I'm happy that this forum was established but I am also certain that it had much easier sailing through TB then it would have if someone other than Carol had suggested it.

As you, yourself, posted, "This does step away from the traditional requirments of forum creation."

As you, yourself, posted, "This does step away from the traditional requirments of forum creation."

To understand my viewpoint, a bit of history is required here. I firmly believe that those "traditional requirements" are ridiculous. In fact, my opposition to them was among the main reason why I ran for TB the first time.

At the time, they were not listed as suggestions but rather as carved-in-stone, unalterable, requirements.

Basically, they boiled down to this: In order for TB to approve a new forum, someone requesting one had to show numerous posts about the subject which did not have another place where they appeared.

The idiocy of that is self-evident: If they do not have another place to appear, then they do not appear and there is no way that anyone could point to them.

If they do appear, no matter how far off topic for the particular forum, then they did not require a new forum.

I specifically was upset that requests for two forums, one for "Christian travelers" and the second for "student travelers" were rejected by TB without even being voted upon. After all, the arguments went, the posts could be made in Travel Buzz.

When I got elected, I changed the requests slightly. I made "Christian Travelers" into "Religious Travel" and "Student travelers" into "Budget Travel".

Aided by another new member of TB (Attorney28) who felt the same way that I did, we managed to get these forums established. (A special credit belongs to ScottC, who changed his mind and actually made the motion to establish the Religious Travelers forum.)

Religious Travel did not turn out to be a success. It basically became "Kosher Food Travel" and there was not, IMHO, enough interest to warrant a separate forum. I tried to have it removed but was unsuccessful.

On the other hand, "Budget Travel" was very successful. It was eventually moderated by one of the people who asked for it -- some guy with the unpronouncable name of "bhatnasx".

My objection, therefore, is not to having Sixt having its own forum, but rather to the idea of "if the Community Director asks for it, we will approve it." TB is NOT elected by the Community Director but by ordinary members -- and it is those members it should be representing.

My objection, therefore, is not to having Sixt having its own forum, but rather to the idea of "if the Community Director asks for it, we will approve it." TB is NOT elected by the Community Director but by ordinary members -- and it is those members it should be representing.

Dov, Talkboard members deserve more respect. They decide what to support based on their own individual judgment. I've suggested a couple things to Talkboard that have not made it as far as a vote. Thus, you've never seen those items here for public discussion. However, I do have a right to ask them to consider a forum just as any member can. I made it clear to those who asked me that they should vote their own mind and not rubber stamp it because I was the one who requested it. I believe that is what they did here. And for the items where they did not move forward, I've respected their position and not gone around them.

I made it clear to those who asked me that they should vote their own mind and not rubber stamp it because I was the one who requested it.

Carol, I am very happy to hear that.

I would be even happier if you were to eliminate any restrictions on what TalkBoard may, or may not, discuss/recommend. This definitely includes the subject of moderators and moderation.

Keeping firmly in mind that as TalkBoard has absolutely no authority, but can merely make recommendations to you, it would seem that allowing the only member-elected group on FlyerTalk to make whatever recommendations it sees fit is only sensible.

Should it make a recommendation which you find unpalatable, you would then be free to reject it. In the meantime, you would have the benefit of hearing how the representatives of the membership feel about a particular issue.

It would also open the door to suggestions, on TalkBoard Topics, by the ordinary members for improvements along all lines.

(Note: I am not talking about allowing personal attacks on moderators, TB members, or ordinary members. I am discussing policy recommendations only.)

Indeed, I have a suggestion which I would like to make about paying moderators (I favor it). This, clearly, would need not only your approval but IBB's as well. While TB could not possibly require IBB to do this, I believe it would not only be fairer to the moderators but also improve the FlyerTalk experience for all members.

I would have made a specific recommendation along these lines on this forum long ago, but it would have been removed immediately -- and, even if it were not, I would have been told that it is outside of TB's remit.

I don't believe that, as long as TB can only recommend, anything should be beyond its scope.

Carol, I am very happy to hear that.

I would be even happier if you were to eliminate any restrictions on what TalkBoard may, or may not, discuss/recommend. This definitely includes the subject of moderators and moderation.

Keeping firmly in mind that as TalkBoard has absolutely no authority, but can merely make recommendations to you, it would seem that allowing the only member-elected group on FlyerTalk to make whatever recommendations it sees fit is only sensible.

Should it make a recommendation which you find unpalatable, you would then be free to reject it. In the meantime, you would have the benefit of hearing how the representatives of the membership feel about a particular issue.

It would also open the door to suggestions, on TalkBoard Topics, by the ordinary members for improvements along all lines.

(Note: I am not talking about allowing personal attacks on moderators, TB members, or ordinary members. I am discussing policy recommendations only.)

Indeed, I have a suggestion which I would like to make about paying moderators (I favor it). This, clearly, would need not only your approval but IBB's as well. While TB could not possibly require IBB to do this, I believe it would not only be fairer to the moderators but also improve the FlyerTalk experience for all members.

I would have made a specific recommendation along these lines on this forum long ago, but it would have been removed immediately -- and, even if it were not, I would have been told that it is outside of TB's remit.

I don't believe that, as long as TB can only recommend, that anything should be beyond its scope.

FWIW, in the past, folks have been free to talk about moderation, just not specific moderator actions. Randy was always very clear about that - discussing moderation as a whole was accepted, just not individual actions or members. The ORP forum was an outlet for that - but that forum ceases to exist in the new FT.

As moderation isn't currently and has never been under the purview of the TalkBoard, those threads that make their way to this forum have been usually moderated.

FWIW, in the past, folks have been free to talk about moderation, just not specific moderator actions. Randy was always very clear about that - discussing moderation as a whole was accepted, just not individual actions or members. The ORP forum was an outlet for that - but that forum ceases to exist in the new FT.

That was true very far in the past. In the last few years, anything which mentioned moderation on ORP was immediately locked pending "Randy's review" and never reopened.

Dov, Talkboard members deserve more respect. They decide what to support based on their own individual judgment. I've suggested a couple things to Talkboard that have not made it as far as a vote. Thus, you've never seen those items here for public discussion. However, I do have a right to ask them to consider a forum just as any member can. I made it clear to those who asked me that they should vote their own mind and not rubber stamp it because I was the one who requested it. I believe that is what they did here. And for the items where they did not move forward, I've respected their position and not gone around them.
The creation of this forum doesn't really affect me, but I do have a few thoughts on your comment.

I would like to see Talkboard giving FT membership at large (who they are supposed to represent) time to comment on things, to see if perhaps the membership would like to see a vote on said idea. If one person suggests it, usually, at least a few others feel strongly about it, one way or the other. I'd love to at least see a thread in the public TalkBoard forum for discussion on all suggestions and such.

If there is the appearance of a hint of favoritism, which I think is what Dov was suggesting there might be in this case, I've learned that it's better to err on the side of caution. Perhaps, rather than you (Carol) making suggestions to TalkBoard, it might be best if suggestions you have for TalkBoard were sent to another member, and that member was asked to relay them to TalkBoard under the guise of it being their suggestion. This would demonstrate that something was not approved by TalkBoard simply because the Community Director requested it, but that all members' suggestions were valued and met with the same respect and consideration.
Carol, I am very happy to hear that.

I would be even happier if you were to eliminate any restrictions on what TalkBoard may, or may not, discuss/recommend. This definitely includes the subject of moderators and moderation.

Keeping firmly in mind that as TalkBoard has absolutely no authority, but can merely make recommendations to you, it would seem that allowing the only member-elected group on FlyerTalk to make whatever recommendations it sees fit is only sensible.

Should it make a recommendation which you find unpalatable, you would then be free to reject it. In the meantime, you would have the benefit of hearing how the representatives of the membership feel about a particular issue.

It would also open the door to suggestions, on TalkBoard Topics, by the ordinary members for improvements along all lines.

(Note: I am not talking about allowing personal attacks on moderators, TB members, or ordinary members. I am discussing policy recommendations only.)

Indeed, I have a suggestion which I would like to make about paying moderators (I favor it). This, clearly, would need not only your approval but IBB's as well. While TB could not possibly require IBB to do this, I believe it would not only be fairer to the moderators but also improve the FlyerTalk experience for all members.

I would have made a specific recommendation along these lines on this forum long ago, but it would have been removed immediately -- and, even if it were not, I would have been told that it is outside of TB's remit.

I don't believe that, as long as TB can only recommend, anything should be beyond its scope.
This too seems reasonable as far as recommendations and discussions on non-specific moderator action.

That was true very far in the past. In the last few years, anything which mentioned moderation on ORP was immediately locked pending "Randy's review" and never reopened.

As a blanket statement, this, of course, is simply untrue.

Rhetorically effective, I suppose, but false nonetheless.

cblaisd
Former ORP moderator

Dov, Talkboard members deserve more respect. They decide what to support based on their own individual judgment. I've suggested a couple things to Talkboard that have not made it as far as a vote. Thus, you've never seen those items here for public discussion. However, I do have a right to ask them to consider a forum just as any member can. I made it clear to those who asked me that they should vote their own mind and not rubber stamp it because I was the one who requested it. I believe that is what they did here. And for the items where they did not move forward, I've respected their position and not gone around them.

Then why didn't you make the request in the public Talkboard forum, just like any other member could?

This thread is about Sixt. If the discussion on that subject has now ceased, let's move on.

Moderation policy as has been said dozens of times before is not the TalkBoard's agenda. Please communicate with the Community Manager via PM.