DiningBuzz! - Vegetarian options at top restaurants

Hi all,

I've recently started a new blog reviewing the vegetarian options at "nice" restaurants (i.e., not the falafel place around the corner). It's mostly focused on New York City right now, though I have reviews in the pipeline from a few other places. It's at http://withoutbacon.wordpress.com . Would love to get your thoughts, comments, feedback, etc., either here or on the blog. Thanks!

I started something similar a while back, but haven't been good at keeping it up. I figured I spent so much time researching good places to dine as a traveling vegetarian, that I might as well compile in case others could benefit too.

http://avegetariangourmand.blogspot.com/

You have great places in New York. I don't think many of these ever made it to my blog but Dovetail, Alain Ducasse, Per Se and Babbo all offer great food for vegetarians. And I have several more from New York that are on my blog.

I just ate twice in four days at ABC Kitchen - definitely the best of the Jean-Georges restaurants I've been to. If you hurry you might make it for the pasta with squash blossoms and pistachio pesto. It was awesome, but because the squash blossoms are getting near the end I was told it probably wouldn't be on the menu after Saturday.

Good luck with your blog! I'll look forward to checking it out from time to time for places to go.

(p.s. I'm going to a vegetarian chili and beer pairing dinner tomorrow night at Millennium in San Francisco. Should be fun!)

I started something similar a while back, but haven't been good at keeping it up. I figured I spent so much time researching good places to dine as a traveling vegetarian, that I might as well compile in case others could benefit too.

http://avegetariangourmand.blogspot.com/

You have great places in New York. I don't think many of these ever made it to my blog but Dovetail, Alain Ducasse, Per Se and Babbo all offer great food for vegetarians. And I have several more from New York that are on my blog.

I just ate twice in four days at ABC Kitchen - definitely the best of the Jean-Georges restaurants I've been to. If you hurry you might make it for the pasta with squash blossoms and pistachio pesto. It was awesome, but because the squash blossoms are getting near the end I was told it probably wouldn't be on the menu after Saturday.

Good luck with your blog! I'll look forward to checking it out from time to time for places to go.

(p.s. I'm going to a vegetarian chili and beer pairing dinner tomorrow night at Millennium in San Francisco. Should be fun!)

I was going to suggest the new Ducasse place. I think it is named Ardour. We ate there last Thanksgiving and it was superb. We noticed that they had a vegetarian tasting dinner on the regular menu.

Thanks l'etoile! I've heard very good things about ABC Kitchen so I will try to make it there soon. I have a few more reviews in the pipeline (Eleven Madison Park, 21 Club) so stay tuned!

I was going to suggest the new Ducasse place. I think it is named Ardour. We ate there last Thanksgiving and it was superb. We noticed that they had a vegetarian tasting dinner on the regular menu.

Yes, that's it! I couldn't think of the name at the moment, but it's inside the St. Regis. The veg menu was so-so (I was there in winter so more root veggies), but I'm mostly thrilled to see the option. I've had a veg menu at another of his restaurants - La Bastide de Moustiers in Provence - at a better time of year for fresh vegetables.

Has anybody been to Kajitsu? I'm very intrigued by the idea of an all-veggie restaurant holding two Michelin stars, but have yet to find an excuse to go.

I also really want to try ABC Kitchen.

Has anybody been to Kajitsu? I'm very intrigued by the idea of an all-veggie restaurant holding two Michelin stars, but have yet to find an excuse to go.

I also really want to try ABC Kitchen.

Yes, I've been to Kajitsu for dinner with another FTer. It was quite good. The setting is wonderful - very tranquil.

Here are photos from that dinner:
http://avegetariangourmand.blogspot.com/search/label/New%20York%20-%20Kajitsu

That tomato dish looks awesome.

When I first heard about Kaitjsu and looked up the menu, it looked pretty mushroom and tofu heavy (neither of which mrsmicah likes). But your photos and the current menu on their site look much more regular veggie focused, so I'm pretty sure I know where we're going for our next date night. Now to arrange a babysitter...

The artichoke risotto looks tasty. :)

We'll have to try that sometime soon.

I'm trying to work more vegetarian dishes into my diet ever since I had some acid reflux symptoms recently following a few summer pool parties with lots of BBQ meats and beer.

Not in NY but at least a few years ago L'Arpege in Paris had spectacular vegetable dishes. Also fruit. It was a Michelin 3 star at the time we were there.

Hi GadgetFreak, thanks for the tip about Paris -- we are hoping to loop that into our travels next year. Dovetail actually looks really good. They have a vegetarian menu and a "Monday night vegetarian menu" -- what is the difference? Is it that the Monday menu is vegetable focused for everyone? (I know people do 'Meatless Mondays', etc., so maybe that's it.)

I'm looking for a nice date spot with my wife for several weeks from now -- maybe Dovetail should be it...

Not in NY but at least a few years ago L'Arpege in Paris had spectacular vegetable dishes. Also fruit. It was a Michelin 3 star at the time we were there.

L'Arpege is fabulous for vegetarians. The meal I had there and the veg meal at Pierre Gagnaire are two of my favorites. This is from L'Arpege:

http://avegetariangourmand.blogspot.com/search/label/Paris%20France%20-%20L%27Arpege

Hi GadgetFreak, thanks for the tip about Paris -- we are hoping to loop that into our travels next year. Dovetail actually looks really good. They have a vegetarian menu and a "Monday night vegetarian menu" -- what is the difference? Is it that the Monday menu is vegetable focused for everyone? (I know people do 'Meatless Mondays', etc., so maybe that's it.)

I'm looking for a nice date spot with my wife for several weeks from now -- maybe Dovetail should be it...

The Monday night is a three-course fixed-price menu. The other nights are not fixed-price. I ate there not long ago and honestly don't remember it terribly well (never did put it on my blog), but tells me I was underwhelmed. I do have my photos still and perhaps I'll get them posted so you can get an idea.

Has anybody been to Kajitsu? I'm very intrigued by the idea of an all-veggie restaurant holding two Michelin stars, but have yet to find an excuse to go.

I also really want to try ABC Kitchen.

Had dinner with a FTer at ABC Kitchen last weekend. I am not a big vegetarian person but this was one of my best meals ever. The whole grain pasta with pistachio pesto and the squash ravioli was wonderful as were the green beans. Excellent meal; highly recommend it.

I usually don't have just a vegatarian meal..

but when I do, the vegetable lasagna is a good option, and the vegetable stir fry..

Just posted a new review -- 21 Club -- probably my most disappointing experience in recent memory. http://withoutbacon.wordpress.com/2011/10/10/21-club-2-stars/

*ldsant, your pasta sounds similar to what I had at elsewhere (http://withoutbacon.wordpress.com/2011/10/04/elsewhere-3-stars/) I found the pasta + pistachio combination too dry.

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Just posted a new review -- 21 Club -- probably my most disappointing experience in recent memory. http://withoutbacon.wordpress.com/2011/10/10/21-club-2-stars/

*ldsant, your pasta sounds similar to what I had at elsewhere (http://withoutbacon.wordpress.com/2011/10/04/elsewhere-3-stars/) I found the pasta + pistachio combination too dry.

I have to say I'm a bit baffled as to why you would even include them? Aren't their specialties steak tartare and hamburgers?

I have to say I'm a bit baffled as to why you would even include them? Aren't their specialties steak tartare and hamburgers?

Ha, yes, it's a good question. I was with a group that wanted to go there, and they do hold themselves out as a top restaurant in the city, so I thought I would see what they could do. Not much, as it turns out...

Actually, they seem to have improved their vegetarian choices in the few days since the blog post (no doubt because of my post!)

Instead of the "Jersey Tomatoes" (which were made with bacon even though the description did not mention bacon), the menu lists "Breaded Buffalo Mozzarella, arugula salad, grilled marinated eggplant, roasted red pepper sauce". And there is also a vegetarian entree (there were none when I went), "Paccheri Pasta, wild mushrooms, pumpkin, basil, Parmesan cream sauce". (See the note updating the post: http://withoutbacon.wordpress.com/2011/10/10/21-club-2-stars/)

Carmelized veggies on the side is the new trend..

restaurants who do this, I considered on the medium to upper end..

The blog branches out!

Check out my recent posts -- Supper, in Philadelphia:
https://withoutbacon.wordpress.com/2011/10/18/supper-philadelphia-brunch/

and El Chile, in Austin, TX:
https://withoutbacon.wordpress.com/2011/10/24/el-chile-austin-tx/

Don't worry, I'll be back in New York soon, reviewing Bottino (in Chelsea) and Eleven Madison Park.

Spoiler alert -- EMP gets a perfect five-star rating!

oops..

My experience during the past 35 years in the US is that most high class restaurants don't know how to cook vegetarian entres and have hardly one or two on the menu. The high priced items are usually over cooked rice and undercooked beans with plenty of inedible leaves.
Save lots of money and go to a good Thai or Indian restaurant.

My experience during the past 35 years in the US is that most high class restaurants don't know how to cook vegetarian entres and have hardly one or two on the menu. The high priced items are usually over cooked rice and undercooked beans with plenty of inedible leaves.
Save lots of money and go to a good Thai or Indian restaurant.

Well this is the very purpose of the blog. So for example if you went to Jean-Georges over the summer, they were featuring a tofu salad as one of their starters, a very good beet salad, and a corn ravioli. http://withoutbacon.wordpress.com/2011/10/05/jean-georges-4-stars/ Eleven Madison Park (review forthcoming) was great for this vegetarian.

I agree that Thai or Indian restaurants have nice vegetarian options. But (1) sometimes you want a really top notch dining experience, and (2) I'm often eating out with others, and I don't want to force them to go ot the same couple of places each time. (See http://withoutbacon.wordpress.com/about-this-blog/ )

But yes, in general I agree with you about the paucity of options...

My experience during the past 35 years in the US is that most high class restaurants don't know how to cook vegetarian entres and have hardly one or two on the menu. The high priced items are usually over cooked rice and undercooked beans with plenty of inedible leaves.
Save lots of money and go to a good Thai or Indian restaurant.

Well this is the very purpose of the blog. So for example if you went to Jean-Georges over the summer, they were featuring a tofu salad as one of their starters, a very good beet salad, and a corn ravioli. http://withoutbacon.wordpress.com/2011/10/05/jean-georges-4-stars/ Eleven Madison Park (review forthcoming) was great for this vegetarian.

I agree that Thai or Indian restaurants have nice vegetarian options. But (1) sometimes you want a really top notch dining experience, and (2) I'm often eating out with others, and I don't want to force them to go ot the same couple of places each time. (See http://withoutbacon.wordpress.com/about-this-blog/ )

But yes, in general I agree with you about the paucity of options...

Top notch dining and vegetarian dishes I agree isn't synonymous..

But if there is a market for it, then restaurants should provide the choices..

I find high end restaurants such as Japanese, Thai, Vietnamese and Indian.. do have the extensive vegetarian choices.. perhaps in NA, our preferences are more meat?

Top notch dining and vegetarian dishes I agree isn't synonymous..

But if there is a market for it, then restaurants should provide the choices..

I find high end restaurants such as Japanese, Thai, Vietnamese and Indian.. do have the extensive vegetarian choices.. perhaps in NA, our preferences are more meat?

Although choices aren't great, they aren't uniformly awful. On the blog I try to highlight the places that stand out. "Farm to table" is a new trend nowadays, and places that try to highlight farm fresh food often have good vegetarian options. Blue Hill is one such place , http://withoutbacon.wordpress.com/2011/10/04/blue-hill-at-stone-barns-4-stars/ . And as mentioned, Jean-Georges and Eleven Madison Park both do really well.

Although choices aren't great, they aren't uniformly awful. On the blog I try to highlight the places that stand out. "Farm to table" is a new trend nowadays, and places that try to highlight farm fresh food often have good vegetarian options. Blue Hill is one such place , http://withoutbacon.wordpress.com/2011/10/04/blue-hill-at-stone-barns-4-stars/ . And as mentioned, Jean-Georges and Eleven Madison Park both do really well.

This is true at Merrimans' on the BI as well..

Their fish is caught the night before for lunch, and the day of for supper.. and the vegetables are brought in from the farm fresh each day..

This is true of Mama's Fish house on Maui as well..

I think market fresh is a pretty good way to go.. the menu seemed quite appetizing..

Well this is the very purpose of the blog. So for example if you went to Jean-Georges over the summer, they were featuring a tofu salad as one of their starters, a very good beet salad, and a corn ravioli. http://withoutbacon.wordpress.com/2011/10/05/jean-georges-4-stars/ Eleven Madison Park (review forthcoming) was great for this vegetarian.

I agree that Thai or Indian restaurants have nice vegetarian options. But (1) sometimes you want a really top notch dining experience, and (2) I'm often eating out with others, and I don't want to force them to go ot the same couple of places each time. (See http://withoutbacon.wordpress.com/about-this-blog/ )

But yes, in general I agree with you about the paucity of options...

Some do have good veggie options on the menu, many more don't. But what I do find is that good restaurants seem happy to make me something that isn't on the menu, when I tell them I am vegetarian. I quite like it that way, as often the chef gets creative (my normal verbage is 'no mushrooms, no celery, other than that, go wild!), and I get something much more adventurous that a mainstream menu entree would be. I've had chefs come back and ask if it would be ok if they send some amuse bouche while they take a little longer making my main, no worries, and they have been very good in those circumstances.

Some do have good veggie options on the menu, many more don't. But what I do find is that good restaurants seem happy to make me something that isn't on the menu, when I tell them I am vegetarian. I quite like it that way, as often the chef gets creative (my normal verbage is 'no mushrooms, no celery, other than that, go wild!), and I get something much more adventurous that a mainstream menu entree would be. I've had chefs come back and ask if it would be ok if they send some amuse bouche while they take a little longer making my main, no worries, and they have been very good in those circumstances.

Indeed really top tier restaurants can do an amazing job whipping up something off menu. Like I commented on the OP's blog, last year mrsmicah and I had a meal at the Modern where mrsmicah asked for an all-veggie entree off menu ("no mushrooms, no olives, no parsnips"), and they put together one of the best veggie dishes I've ever eaten. Our server told us that the line cooks look forward to those requests as an opportunity to one-up each other, and when we told her it was actually the best thing all night (not that anything else was bad, but this was just that good), she laughed and said she'd relay our compliments but would have to do so quietly to avoid getting the line cook in trouble for being too good. :)

+1 with themicah.
the best thing to do is just say "freestyle a tasting menu" and see what they bring you. as was previously posted, if you have any allergies/food hates, let them know, and you will be amazed at what shows up for you. chefs love this kind of off-menu experimentation. i also enjoy the surprise of amazing veg stuff that shows up. if you are at a really good restaurant, this is never a problem (well, unless you go to Peter Luger's or the Strip House perhaps).

Even Subway has a veg patty option now..

Really, when a veg option is on the menu.. all vegetarians care about is just veggies it seems.. I imagine there could be hundreds of combinations of veggies that could be had on the menu.. so if you like beets, or tomatoes.. or bell peppers, shitake..

But nope.. restaurants generally just put whatever veggies they feel like.. and consumers just eat whatever the restaurants feel like making up at the moment.. based on the limited selection on the menu..

OP, thanks for the thread and blog.

Even Subway has a veg patty option now..

Really, when a veg option is on the menu.. all vegetarians care about is just veggies it seems.. I imagine there could be hundreds of combinations of veggies that could be had on the menu.. so if you like beets, or tomatoes.. or bell peppers, shitake..

Well, that is rather a blanket statement, and frankly isn't correct. I think that many veggies are concerned about finding a balanced meal which is well prepared, not just eating vegetables. Too often mid-range restaurants or chains offer just a cold salad, or a carb and/or dairy overload, or a pasta with tomato sauce. Often the meal isn't balanced and sometimes it barely includes any vegetables. (Being vegetarian doesn't mean just eating vegetables)

And often as noted earlier in the thread, we can find chefs in higher end restaurants who are excited by the challenge of creating a balanced meal which is decent quality.

Would anyone classify Subway as a 'top restaurant'? Even if they do offer a veg sandwich, it is one of the last places I would ever consider eating, even if they are appearing in all corners of the earth these days.

if you are at a really good restaurant, this is never a problem (well, unless you go to Peter Luger's or the Strip House perhaps).

Yeah, I can vouch for Luger's suckiness if you don't eat steak. I had fish there (yeah, I know, not really vegetarian, but whatever) and I could easily have prepared it better at home for about 10% of the cost. But my sister was pretty psyched to eat her steak there, so it was worth the trip. :)

I rarely starve anywhere! The most memorable exception was an incredibly highly rated by those who like such things, offal based restaurant in Rome. There really wasn't a single thing I could eat. All the food was served family style, everything had an elemet of meat in it somehow and the kitchen shrugged and pulled the salami off the top of the cheese and offered it back when I asked in my best Italian if there was something vegetarian, even a plain salad. It seems they only buy the food for each evening, and there is no menu, so they make everything and bring it out and that night there was nothing that wasn't meatified!

Steak restaurants I normally do fine - a baked potato, some sour cream, and hopefully a chop salad (tomatoes, onions, blue cheese mmmmm) - I am such a cheap date at a steak house!

I don't disagree that there are places where you (we!) could "do fine". But how do you identify those places? That is part of my project with the blog. I went to the 21 Club, which bills itself as one of NYC's top restaurants, and what their chef was able to "whip up" was a bunch of sides thrown together. http://withoutbacon.wordpress.com/2011/10/10/21-club-2-stars/

Other times, I've been to places as, prior posters have noted, the cooks have put together something great. Some steakhouses do quite well for vegetarians -- I'm thinking here of the Hillstone's/Houston's veggie burger -- but most are very bleh. Even look at something like Top Chef: Just Desserts. these people are great chefs, and they put chicken liver or bacon in their desserts! I would not expect that if I was out looking for dessert.

The point of my blog is, how do you identify the places where you can get a great, five-star vegetarian meal? Lots of great, five-star restaurants don't accommodate vegetarians, but many do. How do we separate the good from the bad?

I couldn't agree more. I don't think that we should have to 'just settle' as we do in so many mid-range restaurants in the US. And while I do just fine at steak houses with a combination of side dishes, that gets old and boring quite quickly. How many times I have eaten tomato slices, asparagus, and mashed potatoes for dinner. Hence I really appreciate your blog.

I have had wonderful veg meals courtesy of Ducasse, Bocuse and Schuhbeck, amongst others. I know that I can always find something enjoyable at Käfer. Those meals are interesting and balanced as well as tasty, and go far beyond the usual sides of veg or pasta with tomato sauce found at so many restaurants in the US (and I recall trying with great difficulty attempting to find something actually vegetarian at a Lone Star and a TGIF once, as most items were premade and the offer was to 'pick off the bacon' :rolleyes: )

I feel very strongly that as a veggie we should not have to 'settle', or make up a meal of sides, or be relegated to Asian restaurants in the US, or 'choose' the one token item on the menu, or eat at Subway. There are many other options out there, and I appreciate the fact that some of them have been compiled into one easy place of reference.

The point of my blog is, how do you identify the places where you can get a great, five-star vegetarian meal?

Generally speaking, I'd say any highly regarded restaurant that talks about vegetables on its menu as integral parts of all (or many of) its dishes is going to pull off an excellent vegetarian meal even if they don't have vegetarian entrees listed.

Peter Luger, not so much.
Craftsteak, looking better.
Jean Georges or Eleven Madison Park, no problem.

Craftsteak is on my list... though they don't have any vegetarian entrees on the menu.

OP, thanks for the thread and blog.



Well, that is rather a blanket statement, and frankly isn't correct. I think that many veggies are concerned about finding a balanced meal which is well prepared, not just eating vegetables. Too often mid-range restaurants or chains offer just a cold salad, or a carb and/or dairy overload, or a pasta with tomato sauce. Often the meal isn't balanced and sometimes it barely includes any vegetables. (Being vegetarian doesn't mean just eating vegetables)

And often as noted earlier in the thread, we can find chefs in higher end restaurants who are excited by the challenge of creating a balanced meal which is decent quality.

Would anyone classify Subway as a 'top restaurant'? Even if they do offer a veg sandwich, it is one of the last places I would ever consider eating, even if they are appearing in all corners of the earth these days.

I should clarify.. I meant that the restaurant itself thinks that different combinations of veggies don't matter to vegetarians.. but really, the combination of veggies does.. matter to the customer..

Subway is bottom of the pile example.. but even Subway customizes is my point..

Craftsteak is on my list... though they don't have any vegetarian entrees on the menu.

I went there in LAS once as part of a bachelor party. The organizer had ordered some sort of family style prix fixe that was supposed to get us samples of almost everything on the menu. The steak eaters in the group (i.e., everyone but me) were horribly disappointed as the steak portions were tiny while the veggie and chicken portions were huge. Since I do eat poultry (I'm not a real vegetarian) I was thrilled and was able to eat my fill of delicious mushrooms, veggies, etc.

I don't disagree that there are places where you (we!) could "do fine". But how do you identify those places? That is part of my project with the blog. I went to the 21 Club, which bills itself as one of NYC's top restaurants, and what their chef was able to "whip up" was a bunch of sides thrown together. http://withoutbacon.wordpress.com/2011/10/10/21-club-2-stars/

Other times, I've been to places as, prior posters have noted, the cooks have put together something great. Some steakhouses do quite well for vegetarians -- I'm thinking here of the Hillstone's/Houston's veggie burger -- but most are very bleh. Even look at something like Top Chef: Just Desserts. these people are great chefs, and they put chicken liver or bacon in their desserts! I would not expect that if I was out looking for dessert.

The point of my blog is, how do you identify the places where you can get a great, five-star vegetarian meal? Lots of great, five-star restaurants don't accommodate vegetarians, but many do. How do we separate the good from the bad?

Veggie burgers are one of the things I almost never order, because most kitchens don't have a separate grill for 'flame grilling' veggie burgers. Sometimes when there is no other option, I will ask that the burger is cooked in a frying pan, or, on occasion (and one well known fast food chain certainly used to do this for its veggie burgers) microwave!

Veggie burgers are one of the things I almost never order, because most kitchens don't have a separate grill for 'flame grilling' veggie burgers. Sometimes when there is no other option, I will ask that the burger is cooked in a frying pan, or, on occasion (and one well known fast food chain certainly used to do this for its veggie burgers) microwave!

Can't say that I've ever tried a veggie burger, or patty.. Although I should, and understand from some of those I've talked to that the patty tastes sort of like meat..

I'm changing up my diet and eating alot more vegetables nowadays.. So with a steak dinner, I don't mind getting a large side salad, carmelized veggies, and no carbs..

I've done 3 meals in the past couple of weeks straight seafood and veggies..

The veggie burger issue raises another question: whether vegetarian food should be trying to imitate non-vegetarian food? I think soy, seitan, etc., can imitate meat decently in some cases (Mexican Radio in SoHo has a good "carne asada" with seitan), though I think the best vegetarian entrees are those that try to do well on their own and not just because they manage to look/taste like meat.

The veggie burger issue raises another question: whether vegetarian food should be trying to imitate non-vegetarian food? I think soy, seitan, etc., can imitate meat decently in some cases (Mexican Radio in SoHo has a good "carne asada" with seitan), though I think the best vegetarian entrees are those that try to do well on their own and not just because they manage to look/taste like meat.

Try Dirt Candy in NYC. Excellent vegetarian place.

Try Dirt Candy in NYC. Excellent vegetarian place.

Did you like it? I thought one or two of their dishes (particularly the carrot one) were pretty darn good, but found most of it just so-so.

I should clarify.. I meant that the restaurant itself thinks that different combinations of veggies don't matter to vegetarians.. but really, the combination of veggies does.. matter to the customer..

Subway is bottom of the pile example.. but even Subway customizes is my point..

Can't say that I've ever tried a veggie burger, or patty.. Although I should, and understand from some of those I've talked to that the patty tastes sort of like meat..

I'm changing up my diet and eating alot more vegetables nowadays.. So with a steak dinner, I don't mind getting a large side salad, carmelized veggies, and no carbs..

I've done 3 meals in the past couple of weeks straight seafood and veggies..

And here I think that we have part of the problem; people who think that vegetarians want to eat items which taste like meat, or who think that seafood is vegetarian, or that offering a 'choice' of veggies for a veggie plate is sufficient. It isn't, and especially not at a high end restaurant. That veggie plate at 21 Club is embarassing. All the times I walked past and considered eating there I would never have thought that would be the result.

(I believe that it is the Boca burger which is so common in the US which tastes like meat, unlike the Gardenburger which does not. Any decent restaurant which serves a veggie burger tends to make their own 'patty' and not use a manufactured patty)

Several of us have had excellent meals in high end restaurants, often when the chef offers to make something off the cuff. Many chefs enjoy the chance to be creative and craft something unique. However, being vegetarian and working in a decent kitchen can often be a challenge, and may lead to some of the problems we find in restaurants (lack of understanding, lack of creativity, lack of balanced meals). Often being a vegetarian and starting out in the kitchen may mean a career in the garde manger. Fortunately there are some chefs which do encourage and consult their vegetarian staff, but I suspect that those opportunities are still somewhat uncommon unless in a vegetarian or ethnic kitchen.

Did you like it? I thought one or two of their dishes (particularly the carrot one) were pretty darn good, but found most of it just so-so.

I have been there a few times and always been very pleased with all of the courses. I did not try the vegan items, only the vegetarian menu.

Did you like it? I thought one or two of their dishes (particularly the carrot one) were pretty darn good, but found most of it just so-so.

Ditto. I thought Dirt Candy was just OK. Too many other good places in NYC.

The ones I like best are the ones where you can see the veggies in the burger, rather than it attempting to be 'meat'. Fallen out of favour now it seems are bean burgers, I used to get a really good spicy bean burger in one of my favourite cafes.

I haven't eaten meat for a long time so can't claim to know it it tastes like 'beef' but the brand I do sometimes buy for home, I am assured, taste nothing like meat, by carnivores!

I generally find faux meat burgers bland, so what I taste are the onions, tomatoes, ketchup etc. but sometimes it is the easiest form of lean protein to be found. That said, I'll still only order of it is nuked or frying pan cooked!

The veggie burger issue raises another question: whether vegetarian food should be trying to imitate non-vegetarian food? I think soy, seitan, etc., can imitate meat decently in some cases (Mexican Radio in SoHo has a good "carne asada" with seitan), though I think the best vegetarian entrees are those that try to do well on their own and not just because they manage to look/taste like meat.

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Did you like it? I thought one or two of their dishes (particularly the carrot one) were pretty darn good, but found most of it just so-so.

Ditto. I thought Dirt Candy was just OK. Too many other good places in NYC.

Suggestions?

Suggestions?

I really enjoyed my meal at Fat Radish. Not an all-veggie restaurant, but an excellent selection of gorgeous veggie small plates. And gorgeous waitstaff (of both sexes), too--something I usually don't notice.

On the all-veggie front, my sister is a big fan of Angelica Kitchen, although I think it's also just so-so (kind of old-school crunchy-hippie vegetarian style). I'd put Dirt Candy a notch above it.

I still haven't been to Pure Food and Wine or Kajitsu.

I disagree with the notion that top chefs could whip up a vegetarian meal by just being crreative- not when I am paying top price for it!
What I notice is that usually vegetarian whipped up items are a) a table spoon of rice, b) a few pieces of. Arrows, c) parsley, d) some free leaves with lots of thorny rough edges, and a bunch of poorly cooked beans. If a chef can't cook beans, I don't care how good he is as a generic chef. It is even worse when you just ate a salad before your vegetarian surprise. I also have often noticed that top chefs have no idea about how much salt a vegetarian dish could take; at least they could taste before serving what they created.
Of course soups are all based on meat stock!
I forgot to mention in my earlier posting that Italian and Mexican restaurants also offer good vegetarian dishes.

Veggie burgers are one of the things I almost never order, because most kitchens don't have a separate grill for 'flame grilling' veggie burgers. Sometimes when there is no other option, I will ask that the burger is cooked in a frying pan, or, on occasion (and one well known fast food chain certainly used to do this for its veggie burgers) microwave!

And here I think that we have part of the problem; people who think that vegetarians want to eat items which taste like meat, or who think that seafood is vegetarian, or that offering a 'choice' of veggies for a veggie plate is sufficient. It isn't, and especially not at a high end restaurant. That veggie plate at 21 Club is embarassing. All the times I walked past and considered eating there I would never have thought that would be the result.

(I believe that it is the Boca burger which is so common in the US which tastes like meat, unlike the Gardenburger which does not. Any decent restaurant which serves a veggie burger tends to make their own 'patty' and not use a manufactured patty)

Several of us have had excellent meals in high end restaurants, often when the chef offers to make something off the cuff. Many chefs enjoy the chance to be creative and craft something unique. However, being vegetarian and working in a decent kitchen can often be a challenge, and may lead to some of the problems we find in restaurants (lack of understanding, lack of creativity, lack of balanced meals). Often being a vegetarian and starting out in the kitchen may mean a career in the garde manger. Fortunately there are some chefs which do encourage and consult their vegetarian staff, but I suspect that those opportunities are still somewhat uncommon unless in a vegetarian or ethnic kitchen.

I don't claim seafood with veggies is vegetarian.. although, I think eating seafood is slightly healthier..

I've had straight vegetarian, at the local restaurant just to change things up.. I think creativity is lacking, on vegetarian dishes.. although on meals that have vegetables as part of the sides, I have seen strides in the cooking process over the year..

But straight vegetarian, could use a bit more creativity, focus and effort..

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I disagree with the notion that top chefs could whip up a vegetarian meal by just being crreative- not when I am paying top price for it!
What I notice is that usually vegetarian whipped up items are a) a table spoon of rice, b) a few pieces of. Arrows, c) parsley, d) some free leaves with lots of thorny rough edges, and a bunch of poorly cooked beans. If a chef can't cook beans, I don't care how good he is as a generic chef. It is even worse when you just ate a salad before your vegetarian surprise. I also have often noticed that top chefs have no idea about how much salt a vegetarian dish could take; at least they could taste before serving what they created.
Of course soups are all based on meat stock!
I forgot to mention in my earlier posting that Italian and Mexican restaurants also offer good vegetarian dishes.

I think we might disagree on what a top chef is. ;)

Suggestions?

Talking just New York? And straight vegetarian or vegan?

Pure Food and Wine or Kajitsu, which themicah mentions are both good, with nod going to Kajitsu. I can get tired of raw quickly.

Candle 79 is a good old dependable standby as is Blossom. I love Babbo's vegetarian pasta tasting menu.

The Natural Gourmet Institute is not exactly fancy, but a fun experience that's a bargain. On Friday nights the students who are ready to graduate prepare a three-course vegan dinner. It's $40 and BYOB. The dishes are usually pretty good, but service can be lacking, but for $40 ...

I really enjoyed my meal at Fat Radish. Not an all-veggie restaurant, but an excellent selection of gorgeous veggie small plates. And gorgeous waitstaff (of both sexes), too--something I usually don't notice.

On the all-veggie front, my sister is a big fan of Angelica Kitchen, although I think it's also just so-so (kind of old-school crunchy-hippie vegetarian style). I'd put Dirt Candy a notch above it.

I still haven't been to Pure Food and Wine or Kajitsu.

Talking just New York? And straight vegetarian or vegan?

Pure Food and Wine or Kajitsu, which themicah mentions are both good, with nod going to Kajitsu. I can get tired of raw quickly.

Candle 79 is a good old dependable standby as is Blossom. I love Babbo's vegetarian pasta tasting menu.

The Natural Gourmet Institute is not exactly fancy, but a fun experience that's a bargain. On Friday nights the students who are ready to graduate prepare a three-course vegan dinner. It's $40 and BYOB. The dishes are usually pretty good, but service can be lacking, but for $40 ...

Thanks for those suggestions. Straight vegetarian is what I have in mind. Im not strict about it but I try to minimize (by a lot) my beef intake especially but all meat in general. So nice vegetarian places can be a real treat.

I think we might disagree on what a top chef is. ;)

Well, I don't consider veggie burgers or vegetable lasagne generally indicative of a 'high end restaurant' but they seem to be brought up as examples on this thread... :o

Even in a better restaurant, the kitchen may be limited by ingredients on hand, experience of the person making the dish, knowledge of the person making the dish, time available to dedicate to an individual item, the flexibility or creativity permitted by the chef, etc etc etc.

I will also disagree that 'all' soups are chicken or meat based stock. There are very decent ones with vegetable based stock available, but generally soup isn't something which can be prepared on very short notice. I've had excellent vegetarian soups however at Käfer, and courtesy of Bocuse and Schuhbeck to name a few.

But the steamed vegetable plate linked on page 1 is an embarassment which shouldn't appear on any restaurant as a 'vegetarian entree', high end or not. Often those types of dishes are overcooked and underseasoned, and lack balance.

But the steamed vegetable plate linked on page 1 is an embarassment which shouldn't appear on any restaurant as a 'vegetarian entree', high end or not. Often those types of dishes are overcooked and underseasoned, and lack balance.

Even if it was perfectly cooked and seasoned, it's still an embarrassment. You can't -- or at least shouldn't -- hold yourself out as a top restaurant if the best you can do for a vegetarian entree is a mishmash of several side dishes.

Also, and this won't be on the blog, I was recently at Bouley. One of their entrees was Kobe beef served on a bed of gnocchi. The vegetarian entree was... gnocchi. As my (vegetarian) friend put it to me, "Your meal is what's underneath his meal" is not a very good effort.

This, by the way, after I called Bouley and was told that the chef prides himself on making great vegetarian food.

Even if it was perfectly cooked and seasoned, it's still an embarrassment. You can't -- or at least shouldn't -- hold yourself out as a top restaurant if the best you can do for a vegetarian entree is a mishmash of several side dishes.

Also, and this won't be on the blog, I was recently at Bouley. One of their entrees was Kobe beef served on a bed of gnocchi. The vegetarian entree was... gnocchi. As my (vegetarian) friend put it to me, "Your meal is what's underneath his meal" is not a very good effort.

This, by the way, after I called Bouley and was told that the chef prides himself on making great vegetarian food.

I dont pay much, well any, attention to places that "hold yourself out as a top restaurant". I think a better way of determining places to check would probably help. Reviews and such are much more useful than any places opinion of themselves in my opinion.

The blog's first perfect, five-star review: Eleven Madison Park!
http://withoutbacon.wordpress.com/2011/11/04/eleven-madison-park-5-stars/

That is what I expected this thread to be about - not veggie lasagne or veggie burgers.

Thank you - I've added it to my list. :)

The blog's first perfect, five-star review: Eleven Madison Park!
http://withoutbacon.wordpress.com/2011/11/04/eleven-madison-park-5-stars/

Nice review, and the food looks and sounds great.....
but I cannot fathom a 3 hour meal - any time of day. Actually I can. Had many in Korea, and a couple elsewhere. Absolute torture no matter how good the food may have been. 1 hour max, then to the bar for further conversing.;)

Here is the recent week's special:

Green Zebra Fall Menu

$38.00 per person

Tuesday, November 8th

This Week - PEARS

Join us Tuesday, November 8th as Chef de Cuisine Jon DuBois crafts a menu featuring pears.

Spiced Asian Pear Salad
shaved hearts of palm, Thai basil, crispy tofu, yuzu-pear dressing

Warm Bartlett Pear and Camembert Soup
smoked walnuts, cranberry, wheat berries

Salt-Roasted Bosc Pear
celery root-pear-white truffle risotto, grilled castle franco

Roasted D'Anjou Pear Tarte Tatin
butterscotch ice cream, quince-raisin jam, blue cheese

There have been a number of these $38 menus featuring various fruits/vegetables, I've just never been able to make it yet:(

Green Zebra in Chicago: www.greenzebrachicago.com

Suggestions?

I would like to add one more vote for Kajitsu. Expensive but exceptional - even for an inveterate meat-eater - though admittedly I love pretty much all Japanese food.
Also, in terms of high end, I've heard Per Se has a fantastic vegetarian menu.
And if you expand your horizons to include Paris, what they do with vegetables at L'Arpège is amazing.

Had Vegetarian curry on Basmati rice for lunch today.. Accompanied by a side salad..

Feels good to the body, with the absence of meat.. and quite satisfying.. mmm..

Question.. Do vegetarians consider rice an acceptable staple to accompany vegetarian dishes?

Also, in terms of high end, I've heard Per Se has a fantastic vegetarian menu.

I have fond memories of both Per Se and the French Laundry. I like high end restaurants (since this is what this thread is intended to be about) which don't make one feel that one is someone odd for eating vegetarian, or offer one item marked as 'vegetarian'. Per Se offers two tasting menus daily, one of which is veg.

The various Käfer entities also offer a selection of items which happen not to include meat, not necessarily segregating the veg item on the menu.

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Suggestions?

I would like to add one more vote for Kajitsu. Expensive but exceptional - even for an inveterate meat-eater - though admittedly I love pretty much all Japanese food.
Also, in terms of high end, I've heard Per Se has a fantastic vegetarian menu.
And if you expand your horizons to include Paris, what they do with vegetables at L'Arpège is amazing.

Thanks I will have to try Kajitsu. As noted way upthread, I agree about L' Arpege. Stunning food and a real focus on veggies. And fruit. I recall having a poached pear with 150 year old balsamic vinegar for desert there.

Had Vegetarian curry on Basmati rice for lunch today.. Accompanied by a side salad..

Feels good to the body, with the absence of meat.. and quite satisfying.. mmm..

Question.. Do vegetarians consider rice an acceptable staple to accompany vegetarian dishes?

Rice is fine, depending on what the dish is - with curry, I would expect rice to be honest.

Rice is fine, depending on what the dish is - with curry, I would expect rice to be honest.

I've heard that bleached white rice isn't the healthiest.. The choice with the dish is either the basmati rice which looks white, or egg shanghai type noodles, which I think has an yolk base to it..

Which would you choose to accompany your vegetarian curry

I've heard that bleached white rice isn't the healthiest.. The choice with the dish is either the basmati rice which looks white, or egg shanghai type noodles, which I think has an yolk base to it..

Which would you choose to accompany your vegetarian curry

If it is an Indian style curry, noddles just don't work for me I am afraid, it would be rice (ideally, it would actually be rice and naan bread, but those are my piggy tendencies!)

In terms of which rice, I like white basmati rice (I don't care for the brown basmati rice), but I am also fine with regular white rice - no it is probably not as nutritionally as good for me as brown or wild rice, but I am not a fan of either. I do quite like the additional flavours of a pilaf, which I've had made with basmati and other long grain white rice.

If it is an Indian style curry, noddles just don't work for me I am afraid, it would be rice (ideally, it would actually be rice and naan bread, but those are my piggy tendencies!)

In terms of which rice, I like white basmati rice (I don't care for the brown basmati rice), but I am also fine with regular white rice - no it is probably not as nutritionally as good for me as brown or wild rice, but I am not a fan of either. I do quite like the additional flavours of a pilaf, which I've had made with basmati and other long grain white rice.

I love wild rice, but that wouldn't make it authentically East Indian.. the Basmati rice is almost like white rice..

Is the Basmati rice have any more nutrients than the regular white rice?..

I love short grain white rice.. has a nice taste to it.. ya know, the stuff from Edo..

Nothing wrong with pilaf, brown or wild rice.. I'm so used to eating Brown bread, that I find it to be a treat to have these types of rices..

Yes, I hear per se has a fantastic vegetarian menu. I just don't think I'm ready to drop $300 (let's be honest, I'd have to take my wife, so $600 (but let's really be honest, we'll want wine pairings, so $900)) on dinner in the near future...

I was surprised at how long EMP took for lunch. Our reservation was at 12:30 and I had actually told them that I needed to be out of there by 2:30. It still took about three hours. I guess the tour of the kitchen, etc., were unnecessary, but a nice touch. I only told them at the time of the reservation that I was in a bit of a hurry; I suspect that if I had reminded them at the restaurant, they would have picked up the pace a bit.

That was actually a great day; I was in a hurry to leave EMP because I was going from there to Blue Hill at Stone Barns :cool:

I was going to suggest the French Laundry in place of Per Se at $270. :o

Sample daily menu here http://www.tkrg.org/upload/fl_menu.pdf

Of course, Bouchon Bakery (in both Yountville and Manhattan now) offer a tiny sweet taste for a fraction of the price, but sadly I rarely find veg sandwiches there. The sweets do make up for it though!

I can't 100% vouch for vegetarian since I don't know how the dishes are prepared, but Craft has some of the best vegetable dishes I have ever had. I've been several times both in LA and NY.

Interestingly, right after I posted about Eleven Madison Park, the Times did a piece with some vegetarian recipes from EMP. http://withoutbacon.wordpress.com/2011/11/10/the-new-york-times-on-vegetarian-food-at-eleven-madison-park/ I can take credit for this, right? :D

A new review! Ça Va, by Todd English, at the Intercontinental Hotel in midtown Manhattan, three stars. The summary: a few vegetarian options, food that looked good, but was sort of bland. http://withoutbacon.wordpress.com/2011/11/14/ca-va-3-stars/

You need to try Picholine.

It has long been one of my favorite high end NY restaurants, at least in part because in my opinion it was close to places like John Georges, Daniel and Le Bernardin but a lot less expensive (although still not cheap by any means). We went there last night for dinner. In thinking of this thread, and remembering I thought they had a vegetarian option, I asked the waiter. Indeed, they had a separate vegetarian menu with multiple fixed price (depending on numbers of courses) options as well as ala carte ordering. They had several choices but my wife and I both decided to order from the vegetarian menu and ended up getting the same thing. First course was a mixture of different types of heirloom beets with a horseradish preparation. Main course was vegetarian wild mushroom risotto with pumpkin and black truffle butter. Both were superb. The risotto had an almost explosive flavor. Could not have been happier, even comparing to the non-vegetarian menu. It was really a great meal.

I'll try those veggies in your suggested top restaurants. I've been wanting to be a vegetarian...

Yikes, I fell out of touch updating this thread, and also updating the blog for a little bit. But I'm back!

New reviews that are up:
Toloache (Mexican) http://withoutbacon.wordpress.com/2011/12/19/toloache-3-stars/

Devi (Indian) http://withoutbacon.wordpress.com/2012/02/27/devi-3-stars/

Celsius ("American") http://withoutbacon.wordpress.com/2011/11/25/celsius-bryant-park-pop-up-restaurant/

In the pipeline are Boulud Sud and A Voce (Columbus).

Also, I jumped on the cheap fare to Brussels earlier this month and will be writing up L'Achepot and L'Atelier de la Truffe Noir.

A trip to Paris is coming up so I will see if I can squeeze in L'Arpege...

By the way -- I'm looking to branch out and maybe get some guest reviews from other cities. PM me if interested!

Hey all, sorry I haven't been keeping in touch via this thread. But I went to a couple of places specifically suggested on here (and some others):

A Voce Columbus: http://withoutbacon.wordpress.com/2012/03/12/a-voce-columbus-3-5-stars/
Love the bread w/ ricotta!

L'Achepot, (Brussels): http://withoutbacon.wordpress.com/2012/03/19/lachepot-brussels-belgium/

Vermillion: http://withoutbacon.wordpress.com/2012/03/26/vermillion-3-stars/
Decent Indian-Latin fusion place.

Picholine: http://withoutbacon.wordpress.com/2012/04/02/picholine-4-5-stars/
Picholine was recommended to me on here and I loved it. Probably one of my top 5 restaurants ever. I couldn't believe that it only got one Michelin star!

Tocqueville: http://withoutbacon.wordpress.com/2012/04/23/tocqueville-3-stars/
I thought this place was decent, but not that impressive. Especially coming so close after Picholine, I was not that impressed. I actually considered downgrading it from 3 stars to 2.5...

Daniel Boulud's latest, Boulud Sud: http://withoutbacon.wordpress.com/2012/05/08/boulud-sud-3-5-stars/
Nice and comfortable restaurant, but quality doesn't suffer.

Junoon: http://withoutbacon.wordpress.com/2012/05/29/junoon-3-stars/
Michelin-starred Indian, but service was a bit off.

I also went to Arpege in Paris, again thanks to recommendations from people here. Very good food -- review coming sometime soon. I'll also be going to Eleven Madison Park again this week, probably my #1 favorite restaurant overall.